There is not a single coherent, non-retarded argument against Universal Basic Income
>>71114140
>the unemployed won't just vote themselves more money fucking over those that work
>>71114140
First install mandatory employment, otherwise it can't ever work due to the drag of the useless on those who work
>>71114140
Yes there is.
>>71114140
>inb4 people won't improve themselves but will just spend all their time playing vidya and jerking off
prove it faggots
pro tip: you can't
>>71114140
>There is a huge reason to work before basic income
>There are only a few minor things that will motivate you for work after basic income
Nice job proving yourself wrong.
>>71114393
>>71114394
define improving myself. I mean I can learn about something, but that doesn't mean I can give anything back with what I learn.
>>71114140
>After basic income
I would not work for any of those stupid reasons, except maybe self improvement.
Because 99% of people I know would be bored if they didn't work. I'd still work if I hit lotto . difference is if people aren't working 200 hr weeks like Japs suicide rate and alcoholism would go down
>>71114394
>>71114449
How can you improve your productivity if you have no free time?
>>71114140
Negative income tax is objectively superior.
>>71114393
>what is modern society
>>71114140
Having shit income should only inspire you to make shit TONS of income.
If not you are worthless
>>71114394
There is no need for all to work with technological increases in automation
>>71114485
Working does improve your productivity by itself. This is called experience.
>>71114140
It's just a way to substitute the ever growing and complex welfare state. Same shit
>>71114393
Since when is that not improving yourself?
>>71114299
You know you can already live off welfare and never be forced to work, right?
>>71114140
It's communism
>>71114140
We will soon vote on it in my country. Direct democracy ftw. 2500$ each month for free for everyone, I say it's worth a try. Of course this would be a social experiment on an epic scale, but fuck it, let's do this shit, someone has to try it out in practice once, theoretically on paper there are many economics phds who agree that it could work out great.
Before basic income, people are driven mostly by market forces as a resource allocated for maximum efficiency.
After basic income, people will be driven by their random passions, weakening the pull of capitalism and destroying modern world's efficiency.
>>71114140
>Base prices increase while purchasing power decreases
Sounds great, sign me up :^)
>>71114140
Omg.
>>71114394
>One big reason is objectively better than a few small ones.
Not if they add up to the same impetus, shit-for-brains.
>>71114593
Indeed.
All it really does is remove the bureaucracy.
But fighting bureaucracy is important.
>>71114625
No communist state ever gave its citizens a universal basic income.
>>71114140
Except that money doesnt fall from the sky
How about the fact that human evolution has been fueled by the need of survival and by replacing that need with a safety net we've caused mental illnesses, suicide, leftist ideologies, depression, degeneracy and everything else wrong in the world?
>>71114140
fixed it for you
>>71114140
Done
>>71114638
You guys are rich enough to do it, so I guess it's no wonder you're the guinea pigs. Let's see how it works out.
>>71114638
Using Switzerland to prove how well UBI would work is like using Norway to prove the success of socialism, you're an extremely wealthy outlier
>>71114649
People will still want to become rich.
Just because you're entitled to the bare necessaries to stay alive doesn't mean you will be contempt with a life in near poverty.
>>71114698
>>71114708
Are you two long lost brothers?
>>71114393
Why improve when you already have everything you'll ever need? Basic income is a trap, a ploy to keep the poor and the rich allied against the middle class.
>>71114625
This. Seriously. Universal Basic Income is another underground tactic by the Jews to bring communism to this country and people are falling for it.
>>71114140
>Self improve
What the hell does that even mean?
>Enjoyment
You mean the thing 99% of people would define as being as far away from work as possible?
>Meet people
Everybody hates their co-workers, and it is possible, easy, and preferred, to meet people in other ways.
>Help community
The average person doesn't give a damn about 'helping the community'
>>71114756
I don't see that.
>>71114638
you fuckers voted down minimum wage increase, luckily leeches like you won't get to win this garbage
>>71114663
Why would they add up to more? Those reasons already exist before. How does getting free money make you want to meet people more?
>>71114538
>the grass was greener in my time
If you look at real stats people are getting smarter and more efficient compared to the past
>>71114589
>>71114597
if i have to work as a janitor 12hrs a day to survive and feed my family, how do i break the circle? How can i study for a better line of work?
>>71114617
Welfare is money we pay to the useless so they don't commit crimes.
Niggers and arabs ruin that by committing crime anyway. Welfare needs to go.
>>71114756
>when you already have everything you'll ever need?
Because I want way more than I "need".
I want cool toys and holidays.
Not live in poverty.
>>71114663
I think the argument is that they won't add up to the same - you'll have lots of people with no interest in working if they don't need it to fulfill their basic needs.
>>71114859
Point is: basic income doesn't change welfare.
It just makes it less unfair to those who do work.
>>71115027
They are called welfare queens.
You already have them.
how many people are there on 4chan who only want enough money to afford housing, food, electricity, internet and the occasional computer upgrades?
the entirety of /r9k/ is basically this.
a basic income doesn't work because there are countless humans who won't work unless their very survival depends on it. and there are plenty more who won't work even then
>>71114852
>working 12 hours
>24 hours in a day
>how am I going to find the time?
God damn non-Americans are fucking pathetic. Work harder faggot.
>>71114140
Half the population will just become lazy parasites and refuse to work because it's not necessary. Myself included. The only way around this is mandatory employment(when available), which is slavery.
>>71115097
>a basic income doesn't work because there are countless humans who won't work unless their very survival depends on it. and there are plenty more who won't work even then
society doesn't need all to work.
Wouldn't it be a graduated thing? So initially the amount would be quite small and as automation increases the amount received would increase gradually.
>>71114852
Start a cleaning business
>>71114873
>I want way more than I need
>but lets tax the rich more so I can make sure I have what I need, fuck what they want.
>>71115147
Sure, but why should the people who are working hard pay for the lives of the people who are just lazy?
>>71114140
1. Basic income is still redistribution of wealth. Only difference from traditional socialist ideas, is that instead of making schools / hospitals, you just give every body an equal share of the tax money.
2. Basic income does not increase GNP or create wealth. It redistributes wealth, making the middle class wealthier, to which the market will adapt; resulting in higher prices on consumer products. Welcome to econ 101.
3. Basic income that sufficiently covers the need to take a job, is practically subsidizing NEET behavior; if you subsidize something, you get more of it. Humans will always converge towards the path of least resistance. This is almost a law of nature.
3a. Yes, I know you're a benevolent human being with a perfect moral, and would there never be persuaded by the alluring lifestyle of living solely based on selfish desire that you will market as "self-improvement and self-realization", instead of contributing to society, which 99.9999% of the time means doing something of worth for another person, which might not benefit you at all and make it seems unnecessary from a personal POV; unless you're paid for the service. We all are, funnily enough.
4. Basic income will still require someone to pay for it, and yes that will STILL have the same effects on the economy as any overly expensive redistributive policy has.
>>71115147
People with no ambitions living off welfare teach their kids the same. And since kids mean more welfare they have a lot of them
it's only a matter of time when working people become minority
>>71115147
so society should just support parasite humans so they can on their asses, when they're perfectly capable of working, but won't? why?
>>71114852
By making your wife work, saving on food hard and finding a place, that doesn't violate basic 40hrs/week limit. If the place you live in has shit economy and all work is slavery, there's no UBI to talk about there. As well as to ask for it because you've made poor life choices (made fa,ily without money). Education is supposed to be taken in youth, and when it's necessary to take it in adulthood, don't cry that it's hard, just take the job that is respecting the law.
>>71114852
Don't have a family as a janitor for one. a janitor without a family wouldn't have to work as much.
>>71114393
I literally already do :^)
Basic income would just make it easier
>>71115147
Just who YOU decide should work though, right? Or we'll all take turns, right? Everyone will just for sure help out, right? I mean, everyone is getting the same out of it, why wouldn't everyone just help each other out and do the work to pay for everyone, right?
>>71114617
Not only that, but you can actually make more money on state welfare than working a minimum wage job.
>>71114572
>>71115197
What's with /pol/ not questioning the automation hypothesis
People have probably been predicting mass-unemployment from automation since the 60s. You know how arrogant computer scientists have always been.
Yet for some reason /pol/ walks into every thread about employment with complete certainty that most jobs are going to be automated within the next few years.
>>71114572
This meme fucking triggers me. Do you not think there are jobs which automation cannot do?
>>71114140
>There is not a single coherent, non-retarded argument against Universal Basic Income
It's immoral to use threats of violence to force people in a free market to exchange goods and services at a minimum value.
Phew...thought that was going to be hard for a minute there,
>>71115143
>Half the population will just become lazy parasites and refuse to work because it's not necessary
Care to provide any evidence?
>inb4 it's obvious :D :D :D :D
>>71115201
>just b urself
>just do it
>>71115143
>>71115279
Not everyone wants to be a useless neet for the rest of their lives, that's just anecdotal evidence
>>71115297
see my OP image for your answer.
>>71115364
Why do libertarians always appeal to morality
>>71115348
Like, 95% of them? State-of-the-art automation is still good for nothing but some of the factories with very hight output bandwidth.
>>71115340
>Yet for some reason /pol/ walks into every thread about employment with complete certainty that most jobs are going to be automated within the next few years.
It won't be in the next few years.
But definitely before 2100. You have to be sticking your head in the ground if you seriously don't think the unemployment from automation issue isn't going to be, at some point, a major issue of the 21st century.
>>71115461
Literal retard.
Communism. Not even once.
>>71115340
>People have probably been predicting mass-unemployment from automation since the 60s.
and people generally don't need to work as hard, and production has increased by incredible amounts, and more people than ever are educated, and standard of living has increased for all.
>>71115340
Automation causes more jobs than it eliminates it just enables better economies of scale.
So for every robot that takes over someones job there's a massive team of R&D for decades, there's software engineers, hardware engineers, manufacturing and all the supply chains of all of those things, then there's repair and maintenance, training to set them up, security specialists to secure and test them, health and safety, and on and on.
They create far more jobs than they take away it just means that to get those jobs you can't be a total and utter mong and you need to study and get an education and not be a worthless parasite on society, really all that means is not being a nigger and attending school and paying attention.
>>71115390
>Care to provide any evidence?
United States are currently experiencing quite a form of "parasites" situation. What's best for an evidence than a fact.
>>71114140
first you need to understand just how retarded social science really is. only 6% of social experiments are replicable, meaning they are real experiments that prove the theory by giving the same result over and over again, other 94% are performed once and if repeated will give a completely different conclusion, never mind that social scientists say! they just go ahead and pretend what they said is true even though it really isn't.
Now, all the UBI experiments are like this. They find some retard and give him money for 1 year and see if he will work or not. Now keep in mind, this is what these morons think science is! They completely ignore the fact that this one retard even though he is fucking retarded, he knows FOR A FACT that after that year UBI is cut and he will have to work again. So there are two options here:
A) he doesn't work and just he just lives off of UBI he's provided with. In this case after a year he will have to find a new job because he will be fired from his current one because of not working for a fucking year, also a complete year off isn't really good on your resume. So in short, after that one year passes he will have to work again and he will have to find a job again and it will be harder to do so than it is now.
B)he works just as he did a year before, and just pocket the UBI with a smile. This is the obvious choice because that money can go into a bank and he's basically richer for a year worth of income by tricking these marxist idiots into giving him money for him "proving" their social theory by still working even though he is receiving UBI
Obviously he will go with second choice. The thing is, this experiment is beyond retarded as you can see, AND in a world where EVERYONE is getting UBI after a while EVERYONE will stop working. No, they won't work on something else, or become a genius no. They just won't work or be useful in any way. That's it you fucking retard just go and kill yourself.
>>71115348
can you please point me to the post where i said that?
I don't wanna work for lazy people, how's that?
>>71115607
not when you get to the point where all those jobs can also be automated. it's not a universal rule that no matter how much automation is there will always be more jobs
of course, that's if something like that is even going to happen within our lifetimes
>>71115696
then you can choose not to work
>>71114140
>easiest fixable pic ever
>>71115721
What would happen to the country if everyone chooses not to work?
>>71115488
>Why do libertarians always appeal to morality
Because most people who are libertarians are so because they have morals based on principles and have used those principles to reason that state violence is immoral.
I believe in a moral system that's built off the NAP (non aggression principle) that it's fundamentally immoral to initiation aggression against people, and if you agree with that then all the force of the state is logically immoral.
There's lots of other good reasons to be a libertarian but just being a virtuous person is the simplest argument.
>>71114140
It's bad because it's a strike-breaking measure, if you are not starving you won't eat the super rich.
>>71114393
I don't even have any income and I already do that.
>>71115721
But I want to make money beyond the basic alms, I don't want my work to fund useless human garbage.
>>71114140
If everyone gets £100 p/w then no one gets £100 p/w
>>71115645
>their experiment is wrong! people won't do what their data is suggesting! their methodology is flawed and producing skewed results!
>instead of discussing those flawed studies, you should instead trust my personal feelings on the matter!
>>71114140
good luck with that when the US defaults and money isn't worth the paper its printed on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQsL6DdyEPA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVx88rQj6KQ
>>71114140
>basic income
there's enough NEETs as it is...
ITT: people who never lived on their own outside their parents basement
Try working minimum wage and living on less $20K per year. It's going to suck. Really suck. It's a dead end. Even living on $30K ain't much better.
But you know, many young college grads have zero employment options. If they had $20K to live on while doing volunteer work or an unpaid internship, they would have been able to keep busy in their field and build up a portfolio until someone was impressed with the work they could do. Instead many of them have to find a menial job to survive.
Basic income is a small price to pay for a massive help to society in terms of human development.
>>71114140
Yeah fuck this. I hate all programs that benefit the poor.
>inb4 he hates the poor what a scumbag
Is there anything more annoying than the poor? No. They are the ones that promote absolute degeneracy. They destroy neighborhoods and commit crimes. They are typically the rudest people. They have zero work ethic, quitting job after job after job because... Fuck if I know. (Side note... I grew up poor, worked shitty jobs for four years straight, and most of my coworkers were these poor fuckers. Literally the most worthless people that did drugs on the job, never did work, got in fights, stopped showing up, etc. I was always getting raised and promotions because I was the only one who stayed at jobs longer than a month and actually did work.)
Then they have the gall to cry and bitch and moan and whine about how they don't have any money. These people literally do it to themselves. I worked at shitty jobs, saved up money, then moved out of a shitty neighborhood. It took me four years longer than my peers, but now I finally built up enough credit to take out student loans and go to college. But these people literally fuck themselves. They are parasites with nothing to contribute and deserve to die.
>>71116024
>people won't do what their data is suggesting!
now wait a moment you faggot, go back and read again. I was saying that a short time study MEANS SHIT in this case, and I was explaining how a person will act LOGICALLY in such a situation and how they misinterpret this is a confirmation of their idiotic theory when in fact it is not.
A true experiment would be if you put like a 1000 people on a island somewhere and PROVED to them, made them believe for a fact that you will keep paying them to live and providing everything for them until they die. After a short while none of them would do anything productive. Simple as that. You are very delusional and retarded if you think otherwise you cunt.
>>71116173
>It's a dead end.
if you're fucking retarded, I'm sure it is a dead end just like most others things for you...
cream floats up and shit stays at the bottom wondering why it too doesn't float like cream and blaming everything and anything but itself.
>>71115714
No because all those things to automate the automation have all the requirements I just listed except that's much more sophisticated and requires even more work to get right.
Go look at the size of something like say Boston dynamics who make robots that are about the most sophistocated thing we have today and look at the supply chain they need in order to do what they do. Then think about all the specialized components and jobs and think about their supply chain, and so on.
>>71114140
Fuck communism is the strongest argument against your retarded shit, commie.
wagecucks on suicide watch in this thread lads
>>71114140
>meet people
>help community
>>71115795
But I, and I think most people do not believe all violence is immoral, besides the obvious ones like self-defence (which I realise isn't an aggression), what about pre-emptive attacks and punishment of wrongdoing.
>>71116208
>After a short while none of them would do anything productive.
Interesting. Can I see your data?
What? You don't have any data? Then where is this conclusion coming from?
Oh, that's right, your ass. Who in the fuck are you? Where'd you graduate? What reason can you give me that your assessment of human nature is qualified to be worth more than wiping the shit off my shoes?
>>71116274
The point of basic income is to get more people spending money and improve their quality of life. It's not to get people working at shitty jobs that suck their souls away and claiming that's somehow "good work ethic". It's to get money moving and keep it moving forever. Character judgements are irrelevant and miss the point entirely.
>>71114140
there is and it is: you aren't entiteled to income just because your alive!
fix'd
>>71115837
then you can choose to work
>>71116494
Our current economy will require people to work on shitty jobs though.
>More people to spend money
Thanks then now's inflation.
>>71114140
Where does the income come from?
>>71116494
No, you're irrelevant. Whether or not "your soul is getting sucked" is irrelevant. Universal basic income will never happen because it's unsustainable, and no one owes you shit. You take work where you can find it, or you get government help to go to school, or you live on welfare for the rest of your life. Your feelings don't matter, no one gives a shit about your gibsmedat attitude.
>>71116460
>Interesting. Can I see your data?
No one will do such a study because it would require too much money to make a whole fucking society and pay for it.
>Who in the fuck are you?
Just a guy who can form basic logical connections with his fucking brain.
>What reason can you give me that your assessment of human nature is qualified to be worth more than wiping the shit off my shoes?
I literally showed you how idiotic their arguments are and how wrong their conclusions are therefore. They are wrong and they are stupid. Simple as that. Oh yeah, fucking kill yourself if you're too stupid to understand what I'm saying.
>>71116494
>The point of basic income is to get more people spending money
>spending money that ain't theirs
why are you cucks so incapable of understanding basic economics? I swear to god...
>. It's to get money moving and keep it moving forever.
I got a brain aneurysm from that, you killed me with your ignorance of economics...
>>71116622
You read only half of his post? He said he don't want to fund useless human garbage. You think people who work doesn't have to pay tax?
>>71114393
>inb4 people won't improve themselves but will just spend all their time playing vidya and jerking off
You can improve yourself in cs:go and learn russian
>>71116719
then he can choose not to work.
>>71114140
Inflation, it wasn't that hard.
>>71116762
Great, now you read the other half of his post only, you fucking retard.
>>71114555
I don't know about worthless. Someone has to do the down to earth honest labor.
>>71116681
Ending welfare and unemployment
Privatizing and deregulating social security
Closing the carried interest loophole
Taxing overseas income to circumvent tax haven abuse
Raising capital gains tax
From each according to what they feel like doing to each according to their needs
>>71116447
I never said all violence is immoral I said the initiation of aggression (of which violence is 1 type) is immoral. The NAP allows for self defense if someone threatens or attacks you or your property.
>>71114638
Policies like this already have been tried many times before it's just people don't fucking read their history books.
Fuck I hate retards
>>71116715
You didn't show me anything. You just said "here's what will happen" and expected me to take your word as god's truth.
I don't give a shit about your baseless conjecture and personal worldview. Show me evidence that people will stop working if provided with a basic income. Here's a tip: "Because I say so" isn't evidence, silly.
>>71114140
people either won't work or will only work on what they want to work on instead of working on what needs to be worked on to maintain and advance civilization.
source: see niggers all working hard to be aspiring artists
>>71115348
95% of people used to farm. now it's around 1% in developed/advanced countries. most people are still finding work.
how is it that japan has only 3% unemployment? they aren't "running out of work"
we need more capital investment to make it more worthwhile to hire labor.
It would become easier for niggers to afford guns
People don't work like that. If given the option from birth, 98% of all people would just sit around, watch movies, play games, have sex and smoke weed 24/7.
If left unchecked the lazy people would all outbreed the few who actually educated themselves and we would soon be living in a real life 'idiocracy'.
I would be a fucking disaster and we're already almost there right now.
>>71115340
>People have probably been predicting mass-unemployment from automation since the 60s.
yes, the 1860s.
>>71117009
but you don't have ANY evidence they WON'T stop working, and it's only logical given that most people work to live you fucking degenerate retard
How can people be this stupid?
>>71114852
Everyone can go to high school , get good grades , and go to college on a scholarship. If you don't then you're dumb.
>>71115340
>You know how arrogant computer scientists have always been
a few are arrogant that way, but it's been almost entirely socialist and plebians who claim that automation will eliminate all jobs as well as their prophets like Sugar Ray Kurzweil
>>71116904
Righto, hotshot
Let's hear some examples
>>71117068
>We need more capital investment
Then basic income could fuck off.
>>71114140
make a 'reasons not to work' one!
>>71116693
>>71116715
The lazy and unmotivated are going to be lazy and unmotivated regardless of what you do. Even if you decide to just start throwing them in jail they are still going to seep tax money off the system. So will the rich who find every tax loophole and tax break and offshore bank to ensure they pay as little taxes as possible. You don't stop them. But you can make the lives of everyone else better.
>>71117009
Do economics 101, seriously. Humans respond to incentives is the bedrock of the entire economy as well as pretty much all social systems.
When you remove the incentive for something like work, then people cease to work, it's self evident. The huge number of people on welfare across the planet who stay on it long term while there are jobs they're able to do are nearby is evidence of this.
>>71114140
Presupposition of argumentation.
The Human Species has yet to cultivate a culture mature enough to implement this shit properly.
We can't even curb our exponential birth rates, how the fuck are we gonna implement socialist ideas?
>>71117174
>But you can make the lives of everyone else better.
why? am I going to get something from doing so? no. there is nothing to gain from you retards being paid to be parasitic retards.
>>71117174
>The lazy and unmotivated are going to be lazy and unmotivated regardless of what you do.
Except they are forced to work and be productive to the society or else they would starve to death.
>>71116173
>Try working minimum wage and living on less $20K per year.
lol wut do you do outside of working hours to advance your usefulness in our civilization?
>>71116293
by this logic you would eventually need a worker force of perfect gods to maintain the economy
do you honestly believe that more automation = more jobs, no matter what? no matter how advanced that automation is?
>>71115645
>first you need to understand just how retarded social science really is. only 6% of social experiments are replicable, meaning they are real experiments that prove the theory by giving the same result over and over again, other 94% are performed once and if repeated will give a completely different conclusion, never mind that social scientists say! they just go ahead and pretend what they said is true even though it really isn't.
Do you have a source for that? That's something I want to keep in my archive.
>>71116173
>human development
in other words, sitting on your ass getting high all day = human development
>all the wagecucks ITT sucking their bosses dick
good little slaves :^)
>>71116494
>It's to get money moving and keep it moving forever.
you mean put it into the slots at the casino and to give to drug dealers?
these freeloaders need to figure out how to help advance civilization and society, not figure out how to get their next fix
>>71115535
Did you know that when Ford popularized the modern assembly line that there was public outcry that it would spell the end of factory work? They thought that the massive increase in productivity would limit the amount of labor so much that the market for factory labor would be tiny. Instead, the factory market exploded! So much that all other labor markets had to increase pay because everyone was trying to get into the factories. I would actually expect automaton to do similar.
>>71114484
good guy, you've been indoctrinated well
>>71114140
Someone has to create the shit you consume. If you give money to everyone, either you devaluate it to the point the basic income is worthless, or you have people work to produce the shit others will only consume.
The foundation of basic income is slavery.
>>71117144
anarcho syndicalism in spain for one?
socialism/communism in eastern europe for another set of examples?
>>71115097
>a basic income doesn't work because there are countless humans who won't work unless their very survival depends on it. and there are plenty more who won't work even then
Then why aren't countries that already have basic income in practical terms (easy to get welfare for rent/food/internet) filled with unemployed people? Stop talking out of your ass.
The people you're referring to do exist, of course, but they're not a significant portion of the populace.
>>71117449
>Then why aren't countries that already have basic income in practical terms (easy to get welfare for rent/food/internet) filled with unemployed people?
because you made this up?
>>71117010
>people either won't work or will only work on what they want to work on instead of working on what needs to be worked on to maintain and advance civilization.
If my working-class manual labor is maintaining and advancing civliization, why don't my wages reflect that?
>>71117304
Is this what you need to do to avoid collapsing to the realization that you are useless?
I mean seriously do you think we dont know women find money and confidence attractive traits?
Well, keep postong we wouldnt want you hurting yourself
>>71117512
i like how "social" is quoted to the extreme.
state "social" programs are actually anti-social.
>>71117530
>If my working-class manual labor is maintaining and advancing civliization, why don't my wages reflect that?
your wages are reflecting that.
there's a lot of hard work to be done.
>>71116801
then he can choose to work
>>71117530
Because there are tonnes of you, and many people could replace you.
>>71117274
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/03/social-science-reproducibility-not-great-but-not-as-bad-as-reported/
he ridiculously exaggerated the actual percentage, but the rest is true
>>71117606
OP is a troll confirmed.
>>71117530
Because right now you're still cheaper than the robots.
>>71114572
Yeah automation will be the literal death of the unskilled. I look forward to it as a software engineer manufacturing your inevitable unemployment.
Kek if you think giving people money for nothing will ever benefit society and not turn everyone into degenerate fat asses. Next you'll be asking for free healthcare Jesus fatty
![[HorribleSubs] Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai to Omotta - 02 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_17.46_[2016.04.14_22.05.56].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/jHAGVKg.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai to Omotta - 02 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_17.46_[2016.04.14_22.05.56].jpg")
>>71114393
I'm improving myself by watching propaganda cartoons
>>71117621
>Because there are tonnes of you, and many people could replace you.
In other words, we're in a labor glut.
If more people stop working, the labor glut will be solved and unskilled labor will become more valuable.
basic income relies that all people are motivated to do shit
but in reality that doesnt work
maybe if you asked anyone who wants basic income what they will do with it, it would work
otherwise, another socialist pipedream
>>71117652
i want to drink milkshakes all day but i don't want to get fat.
i can choose to drink milkshakes
or
i can choose not to drink milkshakes
>>71117514
What are you talking about? Are you saying those countries don't exist or that they are filled with unemployment?
>>71114140
I think universal basic income will be needed in the future but for now we should work on improving our nations while we still have excessive wealth.
Once the basic needs of survival are met our goals change especially with high intelligence tasks.
The main motivations of people are:
1. Mastery
2. Purpose
3. Autonomy
I personally work and do other things for all 3.
>>71114140
>>71117116
No response . ...amazing
>>71114140
niggers, gypsies, mudslimes. Basic income is fine in racially homogenic countries, I would be fine with basic income, if only whites get it.
Yeah we all know the truth.
>>71117724
This is where fascism would really shine in a truly autonomous society. All people of that country would feel like they have a purpose and would want to constantly improve themselves for the betterment of society.
It is also possible to retire at 30 if you save enough money and pick a decent major.
That way you can work hard for 10 years then remove all worry of money from yourself so you can truly work on what you love or go into a field that you do actually truly enjoy and are passionate about.
>>71117693
If more people stop working, then to start with, the economy would be less productive.
What's the point of having unskilled labor to become more valuable anyway? To discourage people to increase their human capital?
>>71117265
No because the economy will only produce long term what it's beneficial to produce so there's a ceiling to growth.
The supply chain starts always starts with people, if you're trying to suggest that it'll eventually start with robots and AI then that's plausible in an extremely distant future but there's lots of obvious reasons why humans will never let supply chain start with robots and AI because we have to remain in control of what we build. And such moral issues are centuries away from us at best.
>>71117848
>pure enjoyment
>not good
Fucking society and people 2bh.
>>71117964
I'm talking in theoretical terms, that there's a limit to the idea that automation provides jobs. basically I was talking about AI, yes
I wasn't however saying it will happen soon or even in the foreseeable future
Don't give me bullshit like "nobody is going to be motivated to work"
There will always be people wanting work, and rise up through the classes.
Read this fucking thread.
There are people in here defending passionately their right to work. These people make up the majority.
UBI ensures there's an unemployed class, lower class, middle class and upper class with nobody homeless, and nobody starving to death.
I hate working and have no dreams or ambitions beyond getting by. The idea that people work for enjoyment or work more they have to confuses me.
>>71117449
Majority of non-western imigrants here don't work and live on welfare.
>>71114140
>giving money with zero productivity
WEW
E
W
>>71114140
You just want to stay on welfare and play computer games and smoke weed.. instead of working and being a productive member of society.
Universal Basic Income like all leftist bullshit suggestions has the mindset that ressources are infinite, barter systems understands it isn't.
Universal Basic Income removes incentives to being productive, erodes merit, and rewards bad behaviour when it shouldn't be rewarded.
It's a terrible idea and the only one who actually support it are lazy bums who don't want to work.
Welfare has already gone way too far, and it's very clear that it incentivises bad behaviour.. because as much as some deserve a helping hand, there are good for nothings that abuse it.
So there's very good arguments against Universal Basic Income..
>>71114140
Government requires taxation. Taxation requires violence. Violence is a violation of natural law. Government is immoral.
You're argument is immoral.
Peace.
>>71118407
>Violence is a violation of natural law
>>71118110
Well it certainly shouldn't decide policy right now or any time in the immediate future.
We dont know how the economy will look when a huge amount of it is automated, but we know when it is largely automated the price of goods will tend towards zero which mean people only need to provide small amounts of value into the economy to live.
There will always be sectors of work where people are needed, entertainment and anything that requires creativity, most hospitality. In the future people will have increasingly more leisure time and so spend more time traveling and visiting the world and so that provides an increase in those kind of jobs.
But to get to a fully automated future utopia we need a mechanism to improve the quality of goods and services and drive down prices, which is basically capitalism, and preferably something moral which is also capitalism.
>>71118367
look, a mind reader
>>71118345
That's an argument against letting shitskins in, not basic income.
I'm against communism and socialism, except when it comes to a basic income. I think it would fix a lot of our problems, and it doesn't even have to be that much; $10k per year would do fine.
People would quit wasting their money making jews rich via college.
People would quit joining the military for shekels.
Less crime (just less, not none)
We'd have less pointless material consumption (both because people wouldnt need to manufacture it for money, and because people wouldn't be willing to work for such shit pay)
-although other small, low-paying jobs might pop up since people could afford to do them
-and people could make crafts or do trades that would otherwise be lacking in sufficient profit
Less gasoline usage, probably less emergency services required
People could homeschool their kids (or just spend more time with them), meaning less ZOG influence
Altruistic people could afford to help out more (with anything)
Smart people could focus on the shit they find interesting
I can only imagine the economy would get better, because people would have more money to spend
(and if they go broke it's definitely their fault and we can leave em to die with a clean conscience)
I would think more people would be generally happier (less stress, more focus on what they want to do)
Less idiots holding jobs and more qualified people in ones that matter (since every job essentially gets +10k per year, it's more of an incentive to do said job; for instance cops and teachers who normally get shit pay)
no homeless
no niggers sapping welfare (they get the same 10k or whatever as everybody, and that's it, literally nothing else)
less greed-motivated bullshit in general
everybody who has ever had a job knows that useless people will be useless anyway, whether they have a job or not; I know tons of people that do more harm than good at their jobs
We would have to be VERY tough on immigration, however, with a strong border, and we'd have to have hard hearts for those who still fuck up
>>71118534
Violence, or to be violent is to bring unwanted or unconsented force upon a nother person for your personal gain.
Force is justified when its defensive.
Thou shalt not kill is false, it should be thou shalt not murder.
There is a time lag in the consequences of your actions and the karmic consequence exists, like truth, independent of your perception of it.
Here's a nine hour lecture explaining Natural Law https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEemKcy-4E
>>71118775
>I'm against communism and socialism, except when it comes to a basic income.
Dropped right here you fucking Commie.
>>71118608
Only thing automation will do is remove some manual labour jobs.. the main difference with jobs is that more automation = more requirements for education.. aka lots of jobs but require more intelligence and complexity..
Besides from that, a lot of the automation thing is overrated, and overexaggerated.. and in many cases automation is not useful and downright dangerous..
>>71118678
Yup and those are the mild versions, there's many on welfare that never worked a day in their life and are content with pilfering from other peoples hard work and actually even thinking they "deserve" to do so.. such notions are false. It is meant to be temporary and then repaid via taxes on your future labor..
>>71114140
>not understanding the whole psychology behind working is survival as dictated by evolution
typical burgerclap education.
>>71114140
Actually I am super pro minimum guaranteed income. And against it at the same time.
The traditional leftie notion of minimum guaranteed income is stupid. Noone should ever receive money from doing nothing, and noone should ever benefit from services they never contributed for.
But there are merits in replacing the minimum wage and all sort of benefits (Even unemployment benefits) with THE MINIMUM GUARANTEED WAGE.
Any government should be able to guarantee all unemployed people jobs with no skill required and that pay little in stuff like infrastructure and in public services. Then pay them this much. It can be as little as work in community services which today is done by volunteers or some other low skill work.
This standardized wage then becomes the de-facto minimum wage. If companies can't provide more money or better working conditions, people will work for the government instead.
I think there is enormous potential to this plan.
>>71114140
Please tell me more about all these NEETbux collectors that have risen to greatness.
I dont think there has ever been a documented case of a welfare nigger becoming something.
>>71118969
Commie.
>reward people who contribute nothing to society nor do they want to, but they want to get an easy ride off the backs of others..
Who's btw. going to pay for this income?
And who's going to work to provides these goods and services that these dindus now have the monetary finance (pilfered from others) to pay for?
No.. People need incentives to do good, some people don't, and just hard work and good morals etc. naturally, but many many don't.. it's for that reason we need incentives.. Otherwise they wouldn't lift a fucking finger and massive problems when that work HAS to be done regardless if they lift a finger or not.
>>71118873
>natural law
>>71119126
>commie
compliment.
>>71114140
im lazy
>>71119181
Oh. Look. An actual retard that can use a computer.
>>71114140
> the only reason to work:
> to have a bigger car/tv set than a neighbor
>>71117449
They are? Sweden's youth unemployment is 3x the US.
>>71119126
How is this commie exactly?
How is replacing benefits and wealth redistribution with people working for their earnings more commie than the alternative?
Please elaborate on that.
>>71119127
>No.. People need incentives to do good, some people don't, and just hard work and good morals etc. naturally, but many many don't.. it's for that reason we need incentives..
False. Dindus may need incentive, but white people don't. That's why most people in Finland are desperate to find work even though they could live on welfare. The amount of white people who make a "career" out of living on government money is tiny.
And who would do the service work? Self actualization is a false ethic.
>>71119324
That's because a significant portion of Swede youth are mudskins
>>71114393
>Budd gommunism never tried!!!
>>71114638
can i apply for swiss citizinship?
>>71118940
Right now it's dangerous and expensive but eventually it'll be good enough and cheap enough to take over more jobs.
What we need is innovation in education to make sure people come out of schooling systems capable of doing work for these businesses, that's a problem caused by government and is an aragument for removing government from schooling and making it all private.
>>71114140
This picture works with like 1 in 50 people, maybe even less if they are not white or chinks..
But its a nice fantasy i give you that.
>>71119652
Lol Fuck private schools. Education is the role of the government. I don't trust any company, at all, businessmen are scum.
Welfare is implied to be temporary and meant to paid back into the economy and back into the coffers via taxing your future labor.
What these idiots want with Universal Basic Income is indefinate welfare regardless of what they do.. So basically some dindus in africa that we already throw trillions over several decades after, is going to get UBI for not doing jack shit as usual.. No.. if you want to see what UBI does, go to africa.. that's what happens when an entire continent doesn't want to lift a finger, compared to in west where people do the work regardless if some are lazy, because it needs to be done, in africa this is not the case, nobody does it and it doesn't get done and then they starve and look pathetic and ask for help..
>>71117449
Stop talking out of your ass finn, the reason that worked was because it was in scandinavia and the welfare was for citizens only, and there was a culture and understanding that it was bad to be on welfare and you should strive very quickly to get off welfare and get back working.
This is all changing with dindus and shitskins migrating and saying "i'm scandinavian now" and then helping themselves to welfare in large periods of their life with no desire to even change that situation, thinking they "deserve it" which they don't..
Migrants should not be eligible for any welfare or social services the first 15-20 years they live there. Including for the kids, this will make sure that they understand this tradition, and only are able to stay if they work hard for 15-20 years.. thus earning their spot.
Because this is not happening, much more people are unemployed, and these people vote for leftist governments and leftist politicians to give the more gibmedats.. and they are lazy and self entitled and feel they deserve pilfering off of others, you run into debt and deficit this way over time..
No welfare for migrants, period..
>>71117086
>If left unchecked the lazy people would all outbreed
That take too much effort.
Give generous welfare for sterilization and present it as a noble sacrifice.
You are not eligible if you've had even 1 child.
>>71117512
>>71119338
>How is replacing benefits and wealth redistribution with people working for their earnings more commie than the alternative?
It's the very definition of Communism.
>>71114140
>Universal Basic Income
Convert the entire human race into GIBSMEDAT LIB-NIGGERS who's primary concern in life is hedonism and pleasure.
Yeah, that'll work out fine. That kind of nigger-mentality is well know to produce functional socialites.
>>71119776
>Lol Fuck private schools. Education is the role of the government. I don't trust any company, at all, businessmen are scum.
lol. I TRUST POLITICIANS, THOUGH! THEY ARE RIGHTEOUS AND JUST HUMAN BEINGS!
>>71114140
>system that assumes best of people
>system that assumes that people want to work and will not leech doing fuck all
sure
>>71120075
>Elaborate
>Replies with 6 words
>>71114393
the majority of people will never improve beyond what's necessary for them
>>71120308
"Poor Faulkner, does he really think big emotions come from big words?"
I don't need any more than 6.
Basic income in Finland would mean that people would really GET the money they work for. If you earn like 1k per month, it is the same than that you would live with welfare benefits. There is no point working with low salary. Rent is like 450+ euros and then the food etc. But with Basic income, you get the money you work for because it doesn't go on rent and food.
>>71119776
>Lol Fuck private schools. Education is the role of the government. I don't trust any company, at all, businessmen are scum.
*facepalm*
It's the role of private business to attract customers by offering services which the customer wants, otherwise you take your business to another school. Are you literally this stupid?
The government has no incentive to offer anything of any value or quality because no one can compete for the business of educating children so what they provide is complete and utter shit.
There's a reason that rich people send this children to private schools despite being taxed to fuck to pay for public schools, because they're vastly better.
>>71119776
And politicians and the sociologists and psychologists who design curricula aren't scum? Wew, lad.
>>71114356
What is it?
>>71114140
If everyone gets the same amount of money for free for doing absolutely nothing, that amount of money is going to become worthless. Money is only worth the work or value that you can get other people to do for it. If money is being given out for absolutely no labor or resources, that money is not going to be able to purchase anything either other than what it can dilute of those who do work by appearing to have virtue and work backing that money but in reality it will have nothing and be nothing more than an additional tax and the only money that will matter then will be the money over that which the basic income provides.
Everything will become more expensive. The way the common person spends money is that they divy up options of their monthly allotment until that cash is all gone. People are taught, especially in home and car buying that they should spend x% of their monthly income on housing. That x% will stay the same when there's a basic income or a minimum wage increase or whatever else effects the economy like interest rates dropping so people are willing to spend more on the initial home price because they're looking at it like a payment they need to make.
The fact of the ubi is that it's really going to have little to no positive effect as the only value that it's going to have comes out of the existing pool of labor and resources and it's also going to encourage people to drop out of the labor pool and fap and play vidya all day.
>>71114140
Welfare surely work fine. I mean - all those blacks, arabs and whatnot, sucking Western countries dry...yeah, Universal Basic Income works like charm!
>>71121450
>same amount of money
no one ever said that.
In the past it was bad to be on welfare, even socially unacceptable to be on it, because it was understood you were basically pilfering off of others whilst you were on it..
How far we have fallen..
But let's define welfare because these lefty idiots apparently doesn't get it..
Welfare is implied to be temporary and meant to paid back into the economy and back into the coffers via taxing your future labor. It's not something you earned, you are not entitled to a single thing of it, it's a loan from others that you are expected to pay back..
It's a substantial amount of money for doing nothing, but this is done instead of throwing your ass out on the street which also hurts the economy and makes you less and less employable. This is why it should not be taken advantage of..
Let me just be clear.. you are not entitled to it, nor do you deserve it whatsoever, it's not your money to spend as you see fit because technically it's not your money whatsoever..
Someone who works 8 hours a day on low wage shouldn't be making only slightly more than someone who's greatest achievement is waking up taking shower eating and watching tv all day.. One of these persons have earned that the other has not.. This was why people on welfare were rightly scoffed at in the past.
The point of welfare is to get you back working ASAP.. people abusing this is bad..
This is also why welfare should never have been given to migrants whatsoever, the left are clueless about how this destroys the nations wealth and economy because there's a huge buffer between doing pretty good and running into the ground and they're exploiting it tremendously..
Lefties like this are the ones who would own a farm but manage to starve because they'd eat it all immediately or give it all immediately to whoever, and then starve because they had not put anything aside for a rough time.. Such people it's good for them to try and starve so they get respect and learn from that understanding.
These people now want UBI for everyone, meaning no matter how incompetent, lazy, and good for nothing you are, and weither you work 8 hours a day or don't you get UBI.. this is outrageous, if you want to eat, earn a place at the dinner table..
The massive foreign aid to dindu and shitskin nations is already enough, it is wealth that rightfully belongs to us, it's not yours, and you are damn well going to pay it back aswell when you get on your feet..
That western citizens aswell think it's acceptable to even ARGUE for permanent welfare for good for nothings.. so that they earn similar to someone on minimum wage or whatever and is guaranteed that income for life eventhough they might not even work a day in their life, is incomprehensibly foul..
>>71121971
even if there are several million missing work places. JUST DO IT, amirite
>>71120611
If I recall correctly, you guys want to implement it because at the bottom line, it's more profitable to have basic income than all the bureaucracy costs when it comes to distributing welfare?
>>71122076
causal link between millions on welfare that you have high taxes paying for and lack of jobs..
I'm not saying welfare shouldn't exist you fucking moron, but you can't just say "not my fault" and be ok with millions not working, who starts small businesses, someone did that, not magic fairy, why don't these people?
It should never be the fucking case that millions were on welfare, shouldn't be allowed.. Massive burden on society that you then have to increase taxes to accomodate..
That it has gotten so far you can thank leftist policies for, they've run nations into the ground this way again and again and again.. and people just keep supporting these stupid notions.
>>71114140
>unironically wanting to meet people and help anyone but yourself
gay as fuck pham
>>71122283
i love how everyone likes to discuss basic income but nobody cares to educate themselves. you dont get 8k a month for sitting on your ass. you get the absolute basics for your life granted. if you want a nice car, a couch, a big tv, holidays, gifts etc you have to work your ass off just the same.
>>71122076
Also germany please stfu, you've imported millions of migrant shitskins on welfare which is a self inflicted wound causing you and your businesses to bleed.
The reason for that is your own stupidity and that of merkel and the cdu..
>>71120523
>I don't need any more than 6.
That's nigger tier.
When saying something is bad you ought to at least say why is it bad. Calling someone and their opinion names is nigger tier Euro-leftie tactics. Except it's different, because you called me Commie instead of Nazi? Sure.
Still a non-statement.
Still a non-opinion.
So... Let's start again. Is a minimum guaranteed salary provided by buisneses who contract the government and by the government directly better than giving gibs to people who do nothing? I would say yes, you, may very reasonably disagree.
Just, when you reply, do it properly by having arguments, and not by nigger tier tactics.
>>71122374
>implying faggots aren't going to start whining that cars and furniture are basic human ''rights''
>>71122406
>the majority of my country voted for a party that is entirely useless.
>this disqualifies an entire nation from discussing any other political topic completely.
and i thought Denmark was supposed to be intelligent.
>>71122470
probably, yes. and?
the UN convention for human rights isnt going to implement cars and tvs any time soon.
>>71122523
You're arguing to make your problem FUCKING WORSE.. NOT BETTER.. companies should be incentivized to create jobs, and incentives for upstarts, instead of allowing millions to be on welfare.. then saying "oh it's problem" and then trying to argue for things like UBI..
>>71122593
and those faggots may just stop working until they get those cars and furniture
>>71122523
It's been a trend with germany to give away wealth to idiots who don't deserve it.. And same thing has been happening with the migrants.. Don't pretend this is a new thing for germany, you've cucked yourself into fucking oblivion over some decades now.. Because you were afraid of being called words like racist or fascist or whatever, by a bunch of good for nothings that failed in their own nations and then come to you for a free ride..
And so obviously german businesses suffer as a result..
Never give a lefty your credit card! end of story.. they have no fucking clue how to spend wisely..
>>71122612
just admit it - you have absolutely NO understanding of the UBI.
it is obvious that you never read into concepts like consumption tax because you think that the rich will pay through a higher income tax for those who don`t work.
there is no point discussing this with you unless you have done at least the tiniest amount of research yourself.
>>71122652
and live under a bridge and eat nothing - sure, if that`s what they are ready to give up?
>>71122777
>wealth
we are talking about a small apartment and something to eat here, I hope you are aware of that.
>>71120197
BERNIE SANDERS IS THE ONLY HONEST POLITICIAN I KNOW HES HONEST BECAUSE HE SAYS SO
Empathy is nice germany, but misplaced empathy can absolutely ruin you and be absolutely devastating.
Don't throw money at people who are just using your goodwill.. And if things collapse these same people will be the first to NOT HELP.. and run off to see who else they can exploit..
>>71122886
>wealth
As in, the millions to billions of dollars the nation we need to spend as a whole for these fucking parasite programs. Fuck off, mudslime cuckman.
>>71122886
Who is going to pay for the UBI you idiot.. millions on welfare and abusing the shit out of it is already a massive financial burden, you want to extend that to everyone?
>>71123019
ok this is the last time i respond to your nonsense posts, because again - it`s like discussing algebra with someone who doesn`t understand multiplication.
whenever you buy a fucking can of coke you are paying for the UBI through consumption tax. there is no "exploiting" it because the only way to exploit is to live in germany and buy every singe bag of pasta abroad.
>>71122886
If your problem is lack of jobs germany, stop importing millions of more people that the unemployed have to compete with.. and then complain about further unemployment and more people as financial burden on welfare, and acting like UBI is going to improve that situation, Fucking fruitloops..
You're like some person that's punching yourself in the face and saying to someone else.. stop hitting me please.. like a real life tyler durden..
I used to think basic income would be awesome. Then I got to college and realized how many people would just smoke weed and play video games all day.
The average person is not "waiting to be liberated from the chains of wage slavery, to pursue science & the arts". The average person is DUDE WEED LMAO.
>>71114140
>Self-improvement, Enjoyment, Meeting People, Helping Communities
No need to work to do all of that. That, is why basic income will fail.
>>71123173
>whenever you buy a fucking can of coke you are paying for the UBI through consumption tax.
Only part of it. It still requires people to actually work and paying their income tax.
>>71123173
And those tax money should be used for something else.. and i guess you say that those tax money incentivises corporations to stay, yeah they love being taxed to the hilt so they can't pay their employees much.
UBI just a permanent welfare scheme with a mask on top of it. And regardless how you frame it.. you're taking something that wasn't earned and giving it to anyone regardless if they work or not.
There's already some cases in europe of people who have never worked a day in their fucking life (migrants mostly) and you try UBI with that.. stupid fuck.. Those lazy fucking people who don't have any condition whatsoever except lazyness should be pushed out to the workplace and get their worklife going..
>>71118038
people say whatever makes them sound better than they really are.
i think that everyone is full of bullshit. except for the /pol was right/ things
>OP is an idiot
Don't incentivize bad behaviour too much, and definately don't do it on a permanent basis like UBI and call it a human right to be lazy whilst others pull the weight for you.. Like some lazy fucker, sitting down saying don't want to work, gibsmedat whilst a farmer works his ass off to make food that then ends up down at the supermarket where your lazy dishevelled victim complex person then strolls down and buys food with HIS MONEY.. and act like it's fine that way..
You deserve to be called out for a fucking joke if you call for stupid shit like that.. Anyway i'm done here.
>>71114140
At what level? National basic income or global basic income? If national why are you a heartless racist that won't do your part to raise the third world?
>>71123509
UBI supporters seem to hate the idea that we will leave our jobs if we have it. I think they are part of the people who never worked a day in their life.
>>71114140
1. government has no money
2. UBI means EVERYONE gets an equal fixed amount of money
3. in order to give everyone this money, you must take it from them in taxes
4. If every citizen is receiving 40k/yr, then every citizen must pay more than 40k/yr in taxes to cover the payments plus administrative costs
5. the only way this is mathematically possible is if the government borrows or prints massive amounts of money
6. where do the interest payments go when governments borrow money?
OH THAT'S RIGHT
