>live in libertarian utopia
>wake up
>no internet because DARPA was never funded and thus it wasn't developed
>eat breakfast
>hope I don't die of heavy metal poisoning because there are no regulations regarding food safety
>walk outside
>get in my car
>hope I don't get hit because there's no regulations requiring seat belts or airbags
>driving along the dirt road to my job at megacorp because there are no roads
>work for 9 hours with a 15 minute break to eat my hopefully toxin free food
>drive home from work to greet my daughter
>who's completely illiterate and can't go to school because there are no public schools and I can't afford private school
>just as I pull up to the house, a guy in a van with free ice cream snatches my daughter and drives off in a cloud of dust
>call the private police company
>"please note you will be charged $19.95 for this call"
>they give me a quote for $1000 to investigate my daughter being kidnapped
>only make $800 a month because no labor laws
>politely decline
>walk home
>get stabbed for my shoes
>nearby private police contractor can't interfere because I don't have coverage with their company
>can't afford to go to the hospital, but then I'd probably die there anyway because there's no requirements for hospitals to practice proper sanitation
>megacorp inherits my house because that's what my employment contract said in the fine print
>reflect on how fantastic life is without that oppressive government
>>70807651
lol lyfe in straya is hell, mate
Are there any Libertarians who legitimately believe that infrastructure shouldn't be handled by the Government
Even in the most historically libertarian countries, the Government STILL handled the infrastructure. The state, whether it be a Government, a King or Emperor or a Township collective, have handled the construction, maintenance and protection of the roads for thousands of years.
>>70807651
A lot of this isn't far off. It's how policing worked before government actually got in the game. Modern policing and the constabulary as we know it is only a couple hundred years old.
Private firefighting is my favourite. Lolbertarians are absolute fucking morons, even if they're right in principle that personal freedoms are important.
>>70807651
>Live in Australia
>Wake up
>Shitpost all day
>>70807797
Absolutely tons. Their meme is literally "muh roads" to make fun of "statists". They think private industry would do a bang up job of that.
They're mental midgets with shit for brains. If you're older than 19 and still a libertarian you should be aborted.
>>70807797
yes some americans.
of course there is this intellectual battle going on between libertarians and evangelical christians. and we still don't know who is going to win.
seriously people like ron paul couldn't run a city of 5000 people and they supported him for president lol
>no internet because DARPA was never funded and thus it wasn't developed
This is some falacious shit. It's like saying
>live in republican eutopia
>Monarchies never funded exploration of the new world so no America.
The fact that a form of government was good in the past doesn't mean it will be appropiate for ever.
>>70807651
For people interested in this sorta setting, look up the tabletop game Shadowrun
it's basically a libertarian society turned into a tabletop game
>>70807781
That's Christchurch New Zealand after the 2011 earthquake.
>>70807960
Some level of government will always be necessary given limited land and resources.
You guys still have the Libertarianism = Anarcho-Capitalism shit going on, huh?
>>70807651
>>who's completely illiterate and can't go to school because there are no public schools and I can't afford private school
has nothing to do with government you illiterate fuck
the government had nothing to do with schools until 1970's and america was, guess what, fine until right about then.
>>70808089
Yes, it's the new meme the Jew masters are cooking up to further divide and conquer /pol/
>>70807797
Thanks for reminding me not all Aussies are drunk tourists or liberal dumbfucks
>be shitposter
>shit post about anarchists
>call them libertarians
>>70808070
A government that strictly deals with well-defined public issues is hardly something I would find even the most batshit insane libertarian opposing.
Contemporary governments do a whole lot more than what is necessary for a healthy public realm. Nor do they always do things to create a healthy public realm.
The essence of libertarianism to me seems to be that the purpose of the public realm is to maximize the value of private properties at reasonable cost—people get more value than they pay in tax. Which is great. That's useful.
>>70807918
>aborted when you are 19
>>70807651
>die of heavy metal poisoning
that's how I want to go, m8
>>70808825
/thread
>>70807918
>They think private industry would do a bang up job of that
wait, you think that the government makes the fucking roads?
not fucking civil engineering companies?
>>70811495
>government
what does the word mean?
govern - control
ment - root of mental - mind
>only the government can do these things
do you actually believe that you need rules & government restrictions to live your own life? Expected nothing less from fucking socialist australia, where there's a law about fucking everything and if you drop out of work for 5 minutes, you can get on muh programs for life
>>70808203
> state governments are not a form of government
>>70807651
>no internet because DARPA was never funded and thus it wasn't developed
Internet perhaps would have been developed slower, but DARPA didn't invent the internet, they just threw funds at the seed.
But we can never know for sure, can we? Just like we'll never know if we would already be colonizing space if governments didn't steal so much money from the people. How much more would spaceX develop if they didn't have to pay 50% of what they generate in taxes? Well, 100 years of government stopping progress makes up for a lot of hypothesis, doesn't it?
What every statist ever fails to realize: http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html
>hope I don't die of heavy metal poisoning because there are no regulations regarding food safety
In absence of government, private companies would be in need of passing private quality tests in order to add a label that testifies their quality to their products. A product without quality label would be discarded by the market due to libertarian societies being less trusting.
>hope I don't get hit because there's no regulations requiring seat belts or airbags
Doesn't even make sense, if you are afraid about being hit then get a car with seat belt or airbag.
>driving along the dirt road to my job at megacorp because there are no roads
Pretty sure megacorp would be interested in their workers being able to reach their facilities, and pretty sure any smart businessman would realize the need to travel to megacorp offering toll roads.
>who's completely illiterate and can't go to school because there are no public schools and I can't afford private school
It's obvious that you're projecting all the problems caused by state into a libertarian hypothesis, you're imagining the bad from libertarianism without the good, which is more available money from the lack of taxes, lack of patents, new and imaginative models for insurances, mutual aid societies, unions actually being relevant for the workers, etc
in africa, the public schools are corrupt and teachers don't show up for work. not to mention there's barely any of them
so people are setting up super-cheap private schools in shipping containers. results vary, but on the whole they're better than government schools.
and even if a shipping-container-school sucks, you just stop paying the $1 a week and don't send your kid there.
I was clinging to the idea that the government has to do AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT to help the poorest of the poor.
there is nobody worse off than a child in Africa. AND FREE ENTERPRISE IS HELPING THEM WAY MORE THAN THE GOVERNMENTS
oh, and teachers unions are trying to fuck with the shipping container schools. THEY CAN'T EVEN DO THEIR OWN THING SEPARATE FROM THE GOVERNMENT THAT THEY PAY FOR.
fuck government. any amount of reduction is welcome. I'm not an all or nothing guy. but I think no government should be the goal.
![The.Lobster.2015.720p.WEB-DL.x264.AC3-iFT.mkv_snapshot_01.27.47_[2016.03.05_15.25.54].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/chtJmxM.jpg "The.Lobster.2015.720p.WEB-DL.x264.AC3-iFT.mkv_snapshot_01.27.47_[2016.03.05_15.25.54].jpg")
government is a corporation that can legally steal prove me wrong
>>70816343
It's not theft if it's legal.
>>70816547
>it's not slavery if it's legal
Ancaps are just as retarded as communists, just in a different flavor.
>>70816992
The definition of slavery doesn't depend on legality. The definition of theft does.
ching chow mao
>>70807651
>>hope I don't get hit because there's no regulations requiring seat belts or airbags
Doesn't mean you can't wear one though dickhead.
>>70807797
The federal government has never handled most roads or infatsructure in the United States. That comes down to state and local government. This argument isn't and has never been valid.
>>70817150
Pretty sure theft is well defined already. Taking someone else's property against his will.
What you can argue is whether or private property is legal, and many constitutions indeed embrace the concept of private property.
>>70807651
>>70807797
>Appeal to history
Guys, government does x (badly) but without government x just wouldn't happen! Free markets don't exist!
Statist """logic""" aka emotion
>>70817150
Wrong.
the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
>>70807651
Statists always seem to have to strawman Libertarians as anarchists to make any sort of point.
That said, Ancaps could actually counter everything you said
>>70807918
Private industries are already making roads. The government's mainly just funding.
>>70807651
You people seem to confuse libertarianism with anarcho-capitalism, kill yourself.
>>70817938
>statists
>arguing with logic and reason
Pick one.
Every anti libertarian thread seems like it was taken directly from cointelpro for dummies.
In a libertarian utopia what stops a company like Google from buying out all its competition and becoming a massive omnipotent monopoly and overcharged consumers and literally controls their lives?
>>70818551
because a rival company would be making so much money from disenfranchised customers they wouldn't want to sell out to google.
>tfw I'm a Libertarian and I work for the government making roads
>>70818982
>tfw I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist and I work for the Civil service advising on gubmint programs
>>70816270
you say without government we could have shipping containers to school our children?
this would be so great!
>>70807651
>no internet
DARPA didn't single-handedly create the Internet.
>no regulations on food safety
So, just because daddy government doesn't tell people what to do, companies are going to fuck themselves over by selling poison to customers?
>no regulations requiring seat belts and airbags
No regulation on something doesn't mean it's not going to be produced, you idiot. You'd still be able to buy a secure car.
>there are no roads
The government doesn't hold any kind of secret, exclusive info about road making, anon
>no public schools
>therefore private schools are unaffordable
This doesn't make sense
>private police
Where did you get the idea that any company would make their services unaffordable to the majority of their consumers on purpose? Same as above, this doesn't make sense
>only make $800 a month because no labor laws
It's in the best interest of any company to pay qualified professionals well. If you make barely enough to survive in an ancap society (which is what you're describing, not libertarianism), it's on you.
>hospitals
Social security and other insurance services being available (provided by private companies), most people would be able to afford healthcare
It's also not in the best interest of any hospital to provide a shitty, unhygienic service to paying customers.
>>70817087
Not an argument
>>70807797
Anti-police and anti-government idiots are hilarious.
>>70819576
Your country is used to being cucked by Authoritarians
>>70819696
>cucked
It was more developed that it is now. At least when it comes to food production and industry.
During and after the war, government destroyed almost everything that left from socialistic era. Most factories were sold for symbolic prices. Machines were sabotaged and sold for nothing.
I'd say that we were cucked by our new government in 90s.
>>70820396
What I wanted to say is that my country was more developed when we were in Yugoslavia under dictatorship.
wow jeez, i understand nothing to this thread but it sounds particularly memeful. Can't wait to reach a point where i'll read a book about whatever libertarianism/ancap really are and laugh about the memes with a 3 yearsd delay. Saving this thread for later.
Why don't you go talk about something useful, for once?
>buy a nice house in a quiet rural location to live with my wife and child
>neighbor buys a howitzer
>fires his howitzer day and night
>my child grows up with chronic sleep deprivation
>one sleepless night he snaps and throws himself off the roof while shouting "BOOM BOOM BOOM"
>hold his funeral in our garden
>neighbor fires off a 21 gun salute
such is life in a libertarian paradise
>>70819477
In Africa they're not capitalized, societies that have suffered authoritarian regimes during the last centuries, modern countries should have no problem providing education at cheap prices, specially if we get rid of obligatory education in order to practice a profession.
In b4 b-but doctors > check Uber, ebay, etc, every single profession would have one of these where people rate professionals. 5 stars > any diploma
>>70821600
Just read Hoppe, Bastiat and Rothbard
What is the /pol/ view on the libertarianism?
To what degree it should be applied?
Police or no police? Government or not?
>>70816270
that's a condemnation of africans, not governments
>>70807651
>live in libertarian utopia
>be the starving megacorp worker
>charismatic despot promises to install an authoritarian government that will reign in the corps and feed you
>rally behind him
>it's not a libertarian utopia anymore
>>70822236
A lot of /pol/ subscribes to the idea of "national libertarianism", which isn't really a thing, but is used here to describe a libertarian society (minimal state intervention, emphasis on personal freedoms, etc) with nationalist elements (closed borders, strong military, patriotism...)
The free market will fix it.
>>70816270
Those container schools are part funded by charities and NGO's that operate and are themselves funded in richer first world countries.
>>70807651
>internet
>DARPA
Thats a funny way to spell CERN
>>70817723
Who enforces property law?
who selects, employs and then pays the judges?
who controls the police force?
>the drafting of equitable and fair laws and also enforcement of these laws require a government that is answerable to its constituents.
>>70807651
Isn't that what the united States is already like?
>>70807797
While I agree with your point, some countries do have private roads. Japan has mostly privately operated roads.
>>70816270
>I went to a poor part of Africa
>They have a shit government
>Therefore, all government is shit
How are you so sheltered?
>>70822520
>"national libertarianism", which isn't really a thing
Yes it is as the alternative (and largely unspoken directly) "international libertarianism" i.e. what the Libertarian Party in the US endorses is Marxist horseshit, as are open borders and all of this "all lifestyle choices are equally valid man, you can't judge others, weed is libertarian XDDD" attitudes that permeate most mainstream libertarianism in the United States and many other countries.
If you're a statist libertarian "muh NAP" has no validity in your reasoning in which case you can have no principled argument against closed borders and to therefore state it's un-libertarian is nonsense.
And for ancaps, "open borders" are only a thing in statist societies that impose commons upon us, namely roads and geographic regions, that we have no choice but to deal with. Given that the state has violently imposed itself over these lands and claims absolute hegemony over them, what it actually does on it's land (unjustly owned or not) has no bearing on muh NAP because their mere existence makes it so that you cannot violate the NAP regardless of whatever they do with them. Given that, you should strive to influence the state to take whatever is the most pragmatic, beneficial approach over governing their property. And if you think that flooding a democratic society with low-IQ, violent shitskins that breed like rabbits and that are obsessed with socialism and overwhelmingly vote Democrat, you're a anti-white lunatic who is probably only nominally a libertarian as you're a hipster who wants something alternative to attach yourself to so you can look cool and edgy, and you couldn't give the slightest fuck about actually solving problems.
>>70823141
I want to be sat in between those goddesses
>>70807651
Libertarians mostly base their ideal society on the good of man. It's not a far stretch from communism but the only society that could ever be a utopia would have to be based on positive consensus.
>>70823188
thought the exact same thing
>>70823141
I'm a minarchist, I believe monopoly of violence is the only requirement to run a society, therefore that question might not be for me to answer, and also, even if I believe alternatives and innovation to what the state takes care of atm, it's impossible to be so savvy in every field that you can come up with sustainable business models for every single field, that being said, it could be entertaining to imagine how an anarcho capitalist law could work.
Private property law is enforced by society and law frameworks you can adhere to in order to receive protection from such frameworks, these law frameworks would have a subscription model where you pay just like insurances, those who don't pay don't receive the "protected by X" mark in their house, no freeloaders.
Tyrant-like or unfair law frameworks would receive boycott from fair people and eventually run out of resources to protect people who decided to adhere to them properly, leading them to bankrupcy, exposing their clients to theft, etc, just like many websites have died because of failing to protect information.
In order to sign contracts, you would need to accept a common judge, just like escrow systems do nowadays on internet.
Perhaps entire neighborhoods could decide to, in a decentralized way, hire private enforcers to work on their neighborhood and set their rules.
There are many ways to come up with solutions, you just need to have the entrepreneur inventive, which many lefties seem to lack.
>>70823576
Totally the opposite, libertarians base their ideal society on the possibility to not depend on the good of man through micro-secession and market forces.
