Who /libertarian/ here?
>>70472040
>tumblr
Libertarians are just liberals that like guns.
>>70472102
not always
I was a lolbertardian but there are inherent problems with the ideology from an economic standpoint. Much as I hate to say it I like roads and public Healthcare.
>>70472102
Epic meme.
>>70472281
Public healthcare is a failure.
>>70472102
And you're just a faggot that likes cocks.
babby's first non-mainstream ideology
>>70472281
That's extreme fuckin libertarianism there
>>70472281
>>70472281
>ROADS ROADS ROADS ROADS ROADS
>>70472281
>>70472040
I was, but problems with the management of the laws (How there can be laws without a state? How can we punish those who commit crimes?), and the lack of support for people who lose their jobs made me change my mind.
>>70472040
/r/ing the government get out reeeee one
>>70472040
Ab ins Gas!
>>70472927
>>70473094
>>70473113
snekmind
>>70472040
So how do libertarians deal with roads and healthcare and shit again
>>70472687
you can always be a small government libertarian
>>70472689
i don't understand the point of this, so communism is good now? it works? because libertarian authors weren't entirely self-made millionaires or something, we should accept Marxist thought as being valid?
>>70473242
>>70472040
>mfw a shittertarian hated roads, having secure borders and a strong national defense because they believed that a bunch of drugged up lunatics with guns are a suitable substitute, that they could worship the almighty "free market" since it will magically fix everything and struggled with simple tasks, instead opting to throw temper tantrums and shit their pampers in a fit of impotent rage when confronted with facts near me
>>70472281
Yeah, the US didnt have roads before 1913 when the income tax was introduced, right?
pwease
>>70473461
obligatory
>>70473530
>>70472687
Look up Lex Mercatoria for an example of an anarchic law system.
You can have state-enforced law in a minarchist system, too.
>>70472281
Libertarianism isnt the same as Anarcho-Capitalism.
You can have a state with Libertarianism. Just one as limited as possible in scope and authority.
>>70472687
Libertarians are for a government, albeit very limited. Defence, police, prisons and courts are all encompassed by government duties according to most libertarians.
A total elimination of a government would be Anarcho capitalism.
>fuckin dumbasses thinking libertarianism means extremism
smhtbqhfam
>>70473625
This guy gets it.
>>70473334
>I put a quarter in the siren
>>70472040
Nah, I like my jobs not stolen by rajeet thank you very much.
Requesting don't step on snek
>>70472884
hehe
>>70473348
Ancaps again. Not libertarians.
>>70473655
Stop stop, you are giving me a massive boner.
>>70473831
0/10 dumb shit colgate cuck
fuck off back to your shed idiot
>>70473931
not an argument
>>70472040
>>70472884
Best one so far.
>>70473931
>he doesn't understand the difference
>>70473707
Alright this one got me.
Freedom and small government will come to you, but only if you post
STATE NO STEPPING
STATE NO STEPPING
STATE NO STEPPING
in this thread
>>70472102
Jesus fucking christ what a retarded comment.
>>70473929
Shit this tread is too much
kekekekekekekek
>>70473972
i chuckled
>>70472689
I like how the second post didn't do anything to prove the OP wrong. It just tried to smear proponents of another ideology that OP didn't even mention.
Pay attention liberals. This isn't how you do a fucking debate
>>70472102
>>70473300
Commnism works if we have slave robots doing all the work for us.
Libertarians are lame as fuck.
What happens with private owned police forces, aren't they very prone to corruption?
>We found a murderer
>the murderer is paying us 500 to not prosecute
>pay more and we will prosecute
>become a bidding war
>>70473548
fucking kek
>>70473931
Libertarians believe there can be a state to take care of necessities individuals cannot do or companies cannot accomplish due to conflicts of interest.
Meaning defence, justice and public infrastructure. And no more.
Anarcho Capitalists believe in the full abolishment of the state and all legal restrictions.
>>70473655
/pol/ is (perhaps ironically) full of morons that know nothing about actual political ideologies and definitions.
It's a good place for banter about social issues but one of the worst places I've ever seen for discussions about political views with knowledgeable people.
>>70473860
Let it rage-on brother!
>>70473768
An actual fair and logically sound concern. I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers here but I do yes, jobs would be outsourced and any measures designed to prevent that adds to economic inefficiency. You'd simply have to get another job.
I just want to say that capitalism is not just an economic system but also a cultural system. Capitalism does indeed depend on philanthropy and I do sincerely believe that a mass exodus of jobs is unrealistic. There are always going to be people who are willing to pay their American workers more, instead of outsourcing so that you can put food on the table.
>>70473348
Is that an argument? I don't think so
>>70474298
This is a libertarian thread, not an anarchist thread you spergo.
>>70473979
exactly. what colgate shitter said is not an argument. now fuck off back to your straw hut you shit stinking vagrant.
>>70473998
exactly. colgate cuck doesn't understand the difference at all.
>>70472040
reporting
>>70474442
>ad-hominems
>>70474326
Indeed but I generally don't like forums, their layouts and slow pace etc. Reddit is just... no.
>>70474408
Britain never fails at being uneducated fucks
>>70472281
I like how our roads and highways are falling apart and it takes years for them to fix them.
I like how a six month project under a private company, takes three years and costs twice as much in tax dollars when done through the government
>>70472040
Checkin in
>>70474060
>>70474060
>>70474060
fack off mate, if you don't provide OC then you get no responses you lazy bastard.
>>70474636
police forces would still be part of the state in a libertarian society
>>70472102
What did he mean by this?
>>70474370
Fuck my grammar.
I'm sure /pol/ understands me.
>>70474326
>>70474326
4+4ch is better but you have a lot of naziboos fucking shit up.
>>70473242
Basically want everything to be privatized. I like to consider myself somewhat of a libertarian, but I would like the state to still own some things like roads. There are however feasible alternatives to these kinds of publicly owned facilities.
>>70474767
You're fine Ragnar
>>70472040
>2016
>not being libertarian
>>70473655
That just sounds like classical liberalism. Not surprising given the way "libertarian" was re-appropriated in the US by market fundamentalists.
>>70472102
Classical liberals are right wing, it isn't any if that neo liberalism bullshit.
Ancap ally here.
>>70472381
Libertarianism and white guilt have nothing to do with each other.
>>70474974
>market fundamentalists.
As opposed to having mommy and daddy tell you what you can and can't do?
Damn right I'm a market fundamentalist
>>70472040
No one you fucking faggot, social democracy all the way.
>>70472102
>le not riet enuff 4 me xd
>>70472102
*thumps bible*
>>70474735
Minor difference
>>70472360
How so? I mean, I know all the fats with diabeetus are blowing out costs but it feels good to know that if I ever come down with a terminal illness, break a leg or have some other unfortunate illness that I won't be up for tens or hundreds of thousands in medical costs like Amerifats are. I'm OK with this.
Post the please tread on me one
>>70475090
Are there any libertarian states out there?
Get fuck statists
>>70474538
yep, you should definitely fuck off back to your safe space over at reddit.
4chan is 18+ kid, so you're not allowed to be here.
>>70475188
>for tens or hundreds of thousands in medical costs like Amerifats are. I'm OK with this.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=health+insurance+
>>70472412
My favorite
>2016
>not being a paleonconservative
19th and early 20th century (before the great depression) america was the greatest nation to have ever existed
![Gadsden-Flag[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/BpHIvOl.png "Gadsden-Flag[1].png")
>>70475206
Rate.
>>70474298
> implying this doesn't already happen with publicly owned police forces
In case you've never come to this conclusion before, no policy is completely full proof. It's about having the fairest and most moral policy. People trust a privatized industry that wants to succeed more than a government-owned one who could give less of a fuck
>>70475227
Well I'm playing more devils advocate
But a gradual shift to a more libertarian society isn't implausible by any means.
>>70474842
Libertarian-socialism is a thing. I'm not too familiar with it but it seems to me that it's essentially normal libertarianism with some wealth redistribution, some kind of guaranteed minimal health care and/or education. I must admit it sounds appealing (probably due to bias stemming from the fact that those things are free here and I've enjoyed those privileges extensively)
But like I said, not all too familiar with it.
>>70474887
<3
>>70474974
Yes, I think they are quite similar in many ways but the cultural part of capitalism (e.g. philanthropy) and private property rights aren't as developed in classical liberalism. Could be wrong though.
>>70475077
Bruh.
>>70475117
Thank you for not saying "democratic socialist"
>>70475227
Whichever state Rand Paul is senator for.
>>70475336
Solid argument mate. What about people who can't afford insurance? They get left to rot, right?
>>70475090
That has nothing to do with an economic market. Humans are not perfectly rational, no matter what "libertarians" think.
In any case markets are not inherently capitalist. Oskar Lange's market socialism and Proudhon's mutualism show a market is compatible with many economic systems.
![100917_hongkongcages[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NKIqfuv.jpg "100917_hongkongcages[1].jpg")
I sure do love my libertarian lifestyle.
>>70474636
Are you actually retarded?
>>70473625
Showing support for this post.
THIS IS A MEME IDEOLOGY. WHO HERE RECEIVED PUBLIC EDUCATION??
>>70475383
The one with the ball gag its hot
>>70475610
There is a chance of this happening yes. I've mentioned it several times before, but philanthropy is a solid and integral part of free market capitalism orientated schools of thought. You ever seen how much money some people raise on kick starters for things like this?
But yes, even so, some people are probably bound to be left out. Some are OK with this, some are naturally not and that's fine. I for one will stick to my belief that nobody is entitled to anybody's labour. And taxation is theft.
>>70475703
Real libertarianism has never been tried, hong kong it's obviously corporatist city state under communist china influence.
>b-but muh roads
How are those US roads today under keynesian corporatism and socialism?
>>70475610
>What is charity
>>70475703
That's just sad...
>>70472884
>not using the gif version
>>70475703
>>70472412
My favourite image.
>>70475676
>>70475850
Congested, polluting, wasteful, expensive, and dangerous.
>>70475703
> what if I put up a picture of something undesirable and say that it relates to an ideology I don't even understand xDxD
I can't even tell if you're liberals or nazibros anymore
>>70472092
>>70472102
>>70472281
>>70472391
>>70472500
>>70472687
>>70473348
>>70475814
Libertarianism is the natural state of nature. It's everywhere, but tainted and marred by governments.
>>70475954
lol sure
>>70475891
>implying all of those people were driving around in cars wearing fancy suits a few years later
That picture is utter horseshit
>>70475691
I agree with you, economics is not a real science because of the very fact that people are not perfectly rational nor perfectly informed when making economic decisions. The best we can do is try to account for it from a theoretical point of view.
>>70475610
>who can't afford insurance?
Literally how?
Pic related
And link
http://www.webmd.com/health-insurance/insurance-costs/insurance-cost-calculator
>>70475729
I think he is, libertarian does not = anarchy. It just means less government, so it's really minarchy.
>>70475882
PTSD is so funny!
>>70476005
and by crony capitalism!
>>70472040
I am an anarcho-capitalist but I see nationalism as an important aspect of maintaining a society.
>>70476045
Whatever you wanna tell yourself, commie.
>>70475788
ANYONE I NEED TO MASTURBATE
>>70476169
So a conservative then?
Fuck off.
>>70476116
Now that you mention it he did seem to get >>actually<< triggered.
You know the story to it?
>>70476243
You could say anarcho-conservative.
>>70475891
Funny to think that wages increased more than 50% between 1860 and 1890, but median earnings have been stagnant or even declining since 1971...
>>70476169
Not really compatible. Nationalism is collectivism, anarcho capitalism is the ultimate form of individualism.
>>70476169
I kind of do too and it's very conflicting because it requires governments to take actions I would be against from strictly philosophical point of view. I've not been able to fully reconcile the two... yet.
I am senpai
>>70476123
Right, that's what I said, tainted by governments.
There's no cronyism without government power.
Europeans can fuck off if they actually think libertarianism will ever become a thing there
>>70476169
Why "anarcho"? Anarchy is fucking autistic middleschool edge
why does pol equate libertarians with anarchists? libertarians DO want government. primarily they just want governments and corporations to not support and empower each other through shady back room shit that is sold to idiot plebs as 'regulation keeping you safe'. because if you think that any regulations the government have passed have NOT been for the sole purpose of making dirty money, i have some news for you.
>>70476262
He's a military guy that thought he saw someone reaching for a gun in the subway car
>>70476340
Nationalism is freedom of association taken to its ultimate logical conclusion. Freedom of association isn't incompatible with anarcho-capitalism.
how does a libertarian coexist in a society governed by the idea of a social contract and helping the sick and less fortunate?
>>70476410
Yeah, you're right. My bad.
>>70476416
It's depressing to think that statist propaganda works so well even the most die-hard right wingers still hate Libertarians more passionately than they do leftists.
>>70476480
well shit
Ancap is the only way guys.The final form of society
>>70476527
charity
>>70476513
Please elaborate.
>>70476176
>commie
Don't call me that, also that's what I'm telling myself because it's true.
>>70476527
My rights end where yours begin.
>>70476473
It's the result of mass disinformation, probably pushed to discredit libertarianism which in itself is actually pretty reasonable and sane. Ancaps are faggots though
>>70476005
>Libertarianism is the natural state of nature. It's everywhere, but tainted and marred by governments.
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
WARNING : A DUMBASS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED TO EXIST WITHIN THE VICINITY OF THE QUOTED POST. ALL WHO RECEIVE THIS MESSAGE ARE DIRECTED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT THE MORON AS HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN THE STUPIDITY OF HIS STATEMENT. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
WARNING : A DUMBASS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED TO EXIST WITHIN THE VICINITY OF THE QUOTED POST. ALL WHO RECEIVE THIS MESSAGE ARE DIRECTED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT THE MORON AS HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN THE STUPIDITY OF HIS STATEMENT. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
WARNING : A DUMBASS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED TO EXIST WITHIN THE VICINITY OF THE QUOTED POST. ALL WHO RECEIVE THIS MESSAGE ARE DIRECTED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT THE MORON AS HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN THE STUPIDITY OF HIS STATEMENT. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
>>70476527
Probably mutual aid groups... though I despise the idea of some made-up 'social contract'.
>>70476641
Don't call me or my wife's son a communist again
>>70476751
nice ad hominem prejoratives
really proves your argument
>>70475610
There are numerous ways to avoid paying the 30,000 bill you might get left with, like a HSA. The ultimate point is that if we allow widespread competition, the costs will be driven down for lower income families to afford. There will always be people without healthcare, whether by choice or by circumstances, but public healthcare is not a solution, as it destroys the quality and availability of healthcare. The idea that equity takes precedence over quality and supply is ridiculous.
>>70476357
Nationalism doesn't really require government. Private individuals through any market based means can form a nation, build a wall, and agree to remove trespassers (immigrants).
>>70473972
This one works on so many levels. Specifically 2.
>>70472040
A nother national soccer team flag for collection.
There are ACTUALLY people in this thread that DON'T want to be left alone.
Like lmao just look around, this is what socialism gets you in any form.
>>70476527
the "social contract" doesn't explicitly encompass helping the suck and less fortunate though that can be implied. Additionally, one can argue that it is also just a mechanism designed to quell dissent, labelling you an irrational being if you refuse to partake in "society" (hypothetical consent)
and what he >>70476656 said
>>70476686
Libertarianism is a compromise. Anarcho-Capitalism is a totally philosophically consistent ideology.
>>70476686
i was never sure how you'd hyphenate anarchy into ancap or ansoc or anything, how do you decide or sanction what it would be like at all once there is no monopoly on force?
>>70476751
wow you really showed him
>>70476863
Then those companies have officially become governments
>>70476751
who cares. Get real.
>>70476863
I actually hadn't thought about that. But from a legal / constitutional point of view, isn't it problematic if private citizens decide to deport people? On who's authority could they do that?
>>70476793
I chuckled, but are you implying that I'm a cuck or are you just memeing
>>70476816
nice insecurity
really proves that you're an insecure little bitch who got triggered by the truth
>>70476947
yeah, it's consistent, but it wouldn't really work. we require a defense force and a membrane between US and THEM. ancap wouldn't work. libertarianism already has worked splendidly.
>>70477021
Government is involuntary whereas free markets are voluntary.
>>70477031
fuck off back to your shit stinking mud hut, misprint spain
>>70476169
>Hoppe
>man who basically admits that we would need to exterminate the degenerates before setting up the libertarian paradise
What a joke.
>>70477089
How so?
All threads should be like this.
We dump our collections, have a bit of fun, then get to serious conversations.
>>70477062
They could deport people because everything is privately owned. As a property owner, I can kick people out for trespassing.
>>70477069
both your a cuck for caring
>>70472381
Kek, saved.
>>70477077
The truth that I'm dumbass? I don't think so. You're the triggered one friend. Go back to spamming your memes, you shouldn't be engaging in human conversation else you'll have an anneurosm.
>>70477286
I was only pretending
>>70477243
Agreed. Surprisingly civil as well.
>>70477281
Right, makes sense. You've given me things to think about, thanks!
>>70476947
How so? Not going to into extremities isn't compromise, it's just a basic understanding of nuance and not being a total faggot who sees everything in black or white
>>70477089
>free markets are voluntary.
have you ever worked a day in your life? i guarantee you wage slaves aren't working voluntarily
>>70477085
I'm not so sure. Weapons, men, and resources would be bountiful in a free market society. As long as the citizens are willing to repel an invasion of a state, the state cannot function without genociding the people.
So many butt hurt stormfags
> you're not cucking yourself to gubment?
> cuck
You natsoc faggots are the all-time gayest meme
>>70477242
You are born into an agreement with the state. The closest thing to a choice in the matter you get is your ability to move to a different country after going through a lot of hassle, but even with the advent of inter-governmental organizations that choice is getting eroded away too.
However in a market you can choose what you buy, and what you do for a living. You can even compete in the market yourself. You can't do that with a state.
>>70477435
They are working voluntarily. Wage slavery doesn't exist.
>>70477435
Who's forcing you to go to work?
>>70477281
Drawing borders in crayon doesn't mean you own the property. In a no-government society, nobody really "owns" land.
>>70477372
Oh you did that on purpose?
>>70477405
Fallacy of the middle ground.
Libertarians still allow their government to steal from them by force (tax) and violate the NAP. Anarcho-capitalists view theft being wrong as a universal moral judgement.
>>70477570
I'm not sure that's true. Private property rights is very much a part of ancap.
>>70477579
It was all an elaborate ruse, anon
My name is Ahmed and I do the cucking
>>70477394
Read Democracy The God That Failed by Hans-Hermann Hoppe and some of the later works by Murray Rothbard for more insight on this kind of stuff.
>>70477570
Anarcho-capitalism isn't a true "no government" environment. However in a manner of speaking every atomized individual and their property becomes a state of sorts in itself.
And so limited only by your ability to defend it you could kick anyone you like off your property.
>>70477582
Consequentialist Libertarians don't espouse the NAP and other moral arguments like "initiation of force is always wrong."
>>70477435
For a start we can't have true free markets with the existence of a state anyway. Secondly, choosing to work for Mcdonalds is voluntary as you could choose to work for someone else or yourself.
>>70477498
You can easily compete with the state. Ever heard of liberland?
Also, you realize that freedom is a socisl construct right? The only thing stopping you from burning down the government is other fellow citizens.
>>70477206
my shit goes like this...
Inside of your stinky mouth!
>>70475206
Nuggets stop shit posting and help
>>70477715
And you're completely right. But remember that there's nobody to buy the property from and gain the rights to defend it. In our society, the government is a business, and you are paying for something that they already own.
>>70477729
In what circumstance is initiation of force morally acceptable?
>>70477582
Not everything that's not to the extreme is middle ground. Libertarianism was never about having no government or taxes, it's about having a small government. There are things the government should do like the Military and roads under a libertarian system.
>>70472040
Why would you even bother posting a thread like this here? Autists will always shit post it to death. They don't care if you have the best arguments in the world, they've made up their mind and just look for evidence to back up their preconceived notions. Really childish shit.
>>70477435
I've worked for years, it is completely voluntary, and I try and put my best into it and always strive to improve. I could quit in no time, if I ever came to dislike my job.
Government, on the other hand, just grabs my cash so it can spend it on ponzi schemes, blowing up kids, spying on me, seizing assets, etc.
>>70477758
I disagree, freedom is a god given (or "nature given", if you will) right and privilege. Burning down the government, unfortunately, does not terminate its existence.
>>70477758
You mean the place run by the guy who gets bullied by the Croatian government?
This is what I mean, you can't just make your own country without considerable force of arms because states are naturally violent and that's the only language they recognize.
>Also, you realize that freedom is a socisl construct right?
Yes.
>>70477888
Here's your help-
Buy nuggets on McDonald's.
Sent.
>>70472040
Not me. Libertarianism is degenerate and ruled by the precept of "I can do whatever I want to do".
Thus feminism, leftism, tranagenderism, and tall the other shit will be promoted because it's "what I want to do, it's not hurting anyone!".
Libertarianism is an ideology for self obsessed children.
>>70477929
You guys are just liberals who wants to smoke weed.
>>70477698
Oh really now, join the club, we're all Muslim here
>>70478005
You're right, but it also protects our right to mock the shit out of it. A right that seems to be slowly eroding away now.
>>70478005
Read Hoppe.
>>70478005
Okay, why do you oppose the concept of people doing their own thing?
>>70478005
> you can't just go doing things you want to.
> what if I don't agree with them
Authoritarianism is for you then faggot. Have fun being a cuck to the government
>>70478175
muh degeneracy
white pride 1488
faggots reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>70477945
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
What I'm saying is that there's no such thing as freedom or lack of it. There's nobody stopping you from doing anything, only consequences to make you reconsider. If every one of the government's citizens wanted to tear it down, we could do it easily. But the truth is we don't. The government is just a company that is liked by a lot of people and has a lot of funding and land.
>>70478049
>>70478005
>I can do whatever I want to do".
Not if it infringes on the rights of others.
> feminism, leftism, tranagenderism, and tall the other shit will be promoted
All of this shit is promoted as it stands so I don't see your point.
>leftism
People would be better off economically speaking so leftists would have no base.
>Libertarianism is an ideology for self obsessed children.
Ad-hom.
Children like to steal toys and are reliant on others to care for them. What kind of politics does that remind me of?
>>70477912
I don't care about moral arguments.
>>70478416
Doesn't this just sum up socialist ideology perfectly
>>70478340
Ah okay, I see your point and I suppose I agree as well.
Who here /ancap/?
>>70478005
Are you actually this incapable of abstract thought? Christ, stay a shill, you deserve to be fucked over in life.
>>70477458
man, the main multiplier of power in military exertions today is A, logistics, and B, command and control. if china, say, sent a division with 25,000 men over to a country like the USA, with 300,000 people, but no military and organization beyond 'cmon bill, grab yer gun, chinks are here" they could easily conquer a vast amount of land with minimal casualties, and then set up for the other 9,975,000 men to land. plus the individual expense of owning, operating, maintaining, and knowing how to use the advanced technologies that are used in modern war are simply beyond the scope of even a well organized city. NYC, for example, could not on its own operate a fighter squadron and sam sites. there's just no way in hell. plus the vast logistics that make the american military so overwhelming is maintained by obscene amounts of talent, skill, and money.
perhaps someday every small city will be capable of operating its own fusion power plants and fabricating floating laser tanks and stuff but as it stands, as nice as it would be for a while, a land of peaceful, prosperous and productive people without a bulwark between them and predators wouldn't end well.
