/Libertarian/
- Home
- Board: /pol/ - Politically Incorrect
- Reading: /Libertarian/
Who /libertarian/ here?
>>70472040
>tumblr
Libertarians are just liberals that like guns.
>>70472102
not always
I was a lolbertardian but there are inherent problems with the ideology from an economic standpoint. Much as I hate to say it I like roads and public Healthcare.
>>70472102
Epic meme.
>>70472281
Public healthcare is a failure.
>>70472102
And you're just a faggot that likes cocks.
babby's first non-mainstream ideology
>>70472281
That's extreme fuckin libertarianism there
>>70472281
>ROADS ROADS ROADS ROADS ROADS
>>70472040
I was, but problems with the management of the laws (How there can be laws without a state? How can we punish those who commit crimes?), and the lack of support for people who lose their jobs made me change my mind.
/r/ing the government get out reeeee one
>>70472040
Ab ins Gas!
>>70473094
>>70473113
snekmind
>>70472040
So how do libertarians deal with roads and healthcare and shit again
>>70472687
you can always be a small government libertarian
>>70472689
i don't understand the point of this, so communism is good now? it works? because libertarian authors weren't entirely self-made millionaires or something, we should accept Marxist thought as being valid?
>>70472040
>mfw a shittertarian hated roads, having secure borders and a strong national defense because they believed that a bunch of drugged up lunatics with guns are a suitable substitute, that they could worship the almighty "free market" since it will magically fix everything and struggled with simple tasks, instead opting to throw temper tantrums and shit their pampers in a fit of impotent rage when confronted with facts near me
>>70472281
Yeah, the US didnt have roads before 1913 when the income tax was introduced, right?
pwease
obligatory
>>70472687
Look up Lex Mercatoria for an example of an anarchic law system.
You can have state-enforced law in a minarchist system, too.
>>70472281
Libertarianism isnt the same as Anarcho-Capitalism.
You can have a state with Libertarianism. Just one as limited as possible in scope and authority.
>>70472687
Libertarians are for a government, albeit very limited. Defence, police, prisons and courts are all encompassed by government duties according to most libertarians.
A total elimination of a government would be Anarcho capitalism.
>fuckin dumbasses thinking libertarianism means extremism
smhtbqhfam
>>70473625
This guy gets it.
>>70473334
>I put a quarter in the siren
>>70472040
Nah, I like my jobs not stolen by rajeet thank you very much.
Requesting don't step on snek
>>70472884
hehe
>>70473348
Ancaps again. Not libertarians.
>>70473655
Stop stop, you are giving me a massive boner.
>>70473831
0/10 dumb shit colgate cuck
fuck off back to your shed idiot
>>70473931
not an argument
>>70472884
Best one so far.
>>70473931
>he doesn't understand the difference
>>70473707
Alright this one got me.
Freedom and small government will come to you, but only if you post
STATE NO STEPPING
STATE NO STEPPING
STATE NO STEPPING
in this thread
>>70472102
Jesus fucking christ what a retarded comment.
>>70473929
Shit this tread is too much
kekekekekekekek
>>70473972
i chuckled
>>70472689
I like how the second post didn't do anything to prove the OP wrong. It just tried to smear proponents of another ideology that OP didn't even mention.
Pay attention liberals. This isn't how you do a fucking debate
>>70473300
Commnism works if we have slave robots doing all the work for us.
Libertarians are lame as fuck.
What happens with private owned police forces, aren't they very prone to corruption?
>We found a murderer
>the murderer is paying us 500 to not prosecute
>pay more and we will prosecute
>become a bidding war
>>70473548
fucking kek
>>70473931
Libertarians believe there can be a state to take care of necessities individuals cannot do or companies cannot accomplish due to conflicts of interest.
Meaning defence, justice and public infrastructure. And no more.
Anarcho Capitalists believe in the full abolishment of the state and all legal restrictions.
>>70473655
/pol/ is (perhaps ironically) full of morons that know nothing about actual political ideologies and definitions.
It's a good place for banter about social issues but one of the worst places I've ever seen for discussions about political views with knowledgeable people.
>>70473860
Let it rage-on brother!
>>70473768
An actual fair and logically sound concern. I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers here but I do yes, jobs would be outsourced and any measures designed to prevent that adds to economic inefficiency. You'd simply have to get another job.
I just want to say that capitalism is not just an economic system but also a cultural system. Capitalism does indeed depend on philanthropy and I do sincerely believe that a mass exodus of jobs is unrealistic. There are always going to be people who are willing to pay their American workers more, instead of outsourcing so that you can put food on the table.
>>70473348
Is that an argument? I don't think so
>>70474298
This is a libertarian thread, not an anarchist thread you spergo.
>>70473979
exactly. what colgate shitter said is not an argument. now fuck off back to your straw hut you shit stinking vagrant.
>>70473998
exactly. colgate cuck doesn't understand the difference at all.
>>70472040
reporting
>>70474442
>ad-hominems
>>70474326
Indeed but I generally don't like forums, their layouts and slow pace etc. Reddit is just... no.
>>70474408
Britain never fails at being uneducated fucks
>>70472281
I like how our roads and highways are falling apart and it takes years for them to fix them.
I like how a six month project under a private company, takes three years and costs twice as much in tax dollars when done through the government
>>70472040
Checkin in
>>70474060
>>70474060
>>70474060
fack off mate, if you don't provide OC then you get no responses you lazy bastard.
>>70474636
police forces would still be part of the state in a libertarian society
>>70472102
What did he mean by this?
>>70474370
Fuck my grammar.
I'm sure /pol/ understands me.
>>70474326
>>70474326
4+4ch is better but you have a lot of naziboos fucking shit up.
>>70473242
Basically want everything to be privatized. I like to consider myself somewhat of a libertarian, but I would like the state to still own some things like roads. There are however feasible alternatives to these kinds of publicly owned facilities.
>>70474767
You're fine Ragnar
>>70472040
>2016
>not being libertarian
>>70473655
That just sounds like classical liberalism. Not surprising given the way "libertarian" was re-appropriated in the US by market fundamentalists.
>>70472102
Classical liberals are right wing, it isn't any if that neo liberalism bullshit.
Ancap ally here.
>>70472381
Libertarianism and white guilt have nothing to do with each other.
>>70474974
>market fundamentalists.
As opposed to having mommy and daddy tell you what you can and can't do?
Damn right I'm a market fundamentalist
>>70472040
No one you fucking faggot, social democracy all the way.
>>70472102
>le not riet enuff 4 me xd
>>70472102
*thumps bible*
>>70474735
Minor difference
>>70472360
How so? I mean, I know all the fats with diabeetus are blowing out costs but it feels good to know that if I ever come down with a terminal illness, break a leg or have some other unfortunate illness that I won't be up for tens or hundreds of thousands in medical costs like Amerifats are. I'm OK with this.
Post the please tread on me one
>>70475090
Are there any libertarian states out there?
Get fuck statists
>>70474538
yep, you should definitely fuck off back to your safe space over at reddit.
4chan is 18+ kid, so you're not allowed to be here.
>>70475188
>for tens or hundreds of thousands in medical costs like Amerifats are. I'm OK with this.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=health+insurance+
>>70472412
My favorite
>2016
>not being a paleonconservative
19th and early 20th century (before the great depression) america was the greatest nation to have ever existed
>>70474298
> implying this doesn't already happen with publicly owned police forces
In case you've never come to this conclusion before, no policy is completely full proof. It's about having the fairest and most moral policy. People trust a privatized industry that wants to succeed more than a government-owned one who could give less of a fuck
>>70475227
Well I'm playing more devils advocate
But a gradual shift to a more libertarian society isn't implausible by any means.
>>70474842
Libertarian-socialism is a thing. I'm not too familiar with it but it seems to me that it's essentially normal libertarianism with some wealth redistribution, some kind of guaranteed minimal health care and/or education. I must admit it sounds appealing (probably due to bias stemming from the fact that those things are free here and I've enjoyed those privileges extensively)
But like I said, not all too familiar with it.
>>70474887
<3
>>70474974
Yes, I think they are quite similar in many ways but the cultural part of capitalism (e.g. philanthropy) and private property rights aren't as developed in classical liberalism. Could be wrong though.
>>70475077
Bruh.
>>70475117
Thank you for not saying "democratic socialist"
>>70475227
Whichever state Rand Paul is senator for.
>>70475336
Solid argument mate. What about people who can't afford insurance? They get left to rot, right?
>>70475090
That has nothing to do with an economic market. Humans are not perfectly rational, no matter what "libertarians" think.
In any case markets are not inherently capitalist. Oskar Lange's market socialism and Proudhon's mutualism show a market is compatible with many economic systems.
I sure do love my libertarian lifestyle.
>>70474636
Are you actually retarded?
>>70473625
Showing support for this post.
THIS IS A MEME IDEOLOGY. WHO HERE RECEIVED PUBLIC EDUCATION??
>>70475383
The one with the ball gag its hot
>>70475610
There is a chance of this happening yes. I've mentioned it several times before, but philanthropy is a solid and integral part of free market capitalism orientated schools of thought. You ever seen how much money some people raise on kick starters for things like this?
But yes, even so, some people are probably bound to be left out. Some are OK with this, some are naturally not and that's fine. I for one will stick to my belief that nobody is entitled to anybody's labour. And taxation is theft.
>>70475703
Real libertarianism has never been tried, hong kong it's obviously corporatist city state under communist china influence.
>b-but muh roads
How are those US roads today under keynesian corporatism and socialism?
>>70475610
>What is charity
>>70475703
That's just sad...
>>70472884
>not using the gif version
>>70472412
My favourite image.
>>70475850
Congested, polluting, wasteful, expensive, and dangerous.
>>70475703
> what if I put up a picture of something undesirable and say that it relates to an ideology I don't even understand xDxD
I can't even tell if you're liberals or nazibros anymore
>>70475814
Libertarianism is the natural state of nature. It's everywhere, but tainted and marred by governments.
>>70475954
lol sure
>>70475891
>implying all of those people were driving around in cars wearing fancy suits a few years later
That picture is utter horseshit
>>70475691
I agree with you, economics is not a real science because of the very fact that people are not perfectly rational nor perfectly informed when making economic decisions. The best we can do is try to account for it from a theoretical point of view.
>>70475610
>who can't afford insurance?
Literally how?
Pic related
And link
http://www.webmd.com/health-insurance/insurance-costs/insurance-cost-calculator
>>70475729
I think he is, libertarian does not = anarchy. It just means less government, so it's really minarchy.
>>70475882
PTSD is so funny!
>>70476005
and by crony capitalism!
>>70472040
I am an anarcho-capitalist but I see nationalism as an important aspect of maintaining a society.
>>70476045
Whatever you wanna tell yourself, commie.
>>70475788
ANYONE I NEED TO MASTURBATE
>>70476169
So a conservative then?
Fuck off.
>>70476116
Now that you mention it he did seem to get >>actually<< triggered.
You know the story to it?
>>70476243
You could say anarcho-conservative.
>>70475891
Funny to think that wages increased more than 50% between 1860 and 1890, but median earnings have been stagnant or even declining since 1971...
>>70476169
Not really compatible. Nationalism is collectivism, anarcho capitalism is the ultimate form of individualism.
>>70476169
I kind of do too and it's very conflicting because it requires governments to take actions I would be against from strictly philosophical point of view. I've not been able to fully reconcile the two... yet.
I am senpai
>>70476123
Right, that's what I said, tainted by governments.
There's no cronyism without government power.
Europeans can fuck off if they actually think libertarianism will ever become a thing there
>>70476169
Why "anarcho"? Anarchy is fucking autistic middleschool edge
why does pol equate libertarians with anarchists? libertarians DO want government. primarily they just want governments and corporations to not support and empower each other through shady back room shit that is sold to idiot plebs as 'regulation keeping you safe'. because if you think that any regulations the government have passed have NOT been for the sole purpose of making dirty money, i have some news for you.
>>70476262
He's a military guy that thought he saw someone reaching for a gun in the subway car
>>70476340
Nationalism is freedom of association taken to its ultimate logical conclusion. Freedom of association isn't incompatible with anarcho-capitalism.
how does a libertarian coexist in a society governed by the idea of a social contract and helping the sick and less fortunate?
>>70476410
Yeah, you're right. My bad.
>>70476416
It's depressing to think that statist propaganda works so well even the most die-hard right wingers still hate Libertarians more passionately than they do leftists.
>>70476480
well shit
Ancap is the only way guys.The final form of society
>>70476527
charity
>>70476513
Please elaborate.
>>70476176
>commie
Don't call me that, also that's what I'm telling myself because it's true.
>>70476527
My rights end where yours begin.
>>70476473
It's the result of mass disinformation, probably pushed to discredit libertarianism which in itself is actually pretty reasonable and sane. Ancaps are faggots though
>>70476005
>Libertarianism is the natural state of nature. It's everywhere, but tainted and marred by governments.
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
WARNING : A DUMBASS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED TO EXIST WITHIN THE VICINITY OF THE QUOTED POST. ALL WHO RECEIVE THIS MESSAGE ARE DIRECTED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT THE MORON AS HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN THE STUPIDITY OF HIS STATEMENT. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
WARNING : A DUMBASS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED TO EXIST WITHIN THE VICINITY OF THE QUOTED POST. ALL WHO RECEIVE THIS MESSAGE ARE DIRECTED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT THE MORON AS HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN THE STUPIDITY OF HIS STATEMENT. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
WARNING : A DUMBASS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED TO EXIST WITHIN THE VICINITY OF THE QUOTED POST. ALL WHO RECEIVE THIS MESSAGE ARE DIRECTED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT THE MORON AS HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN THE STUPIDITY OF HIS STATEMENT. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * DUMBASS ALERT * * * * * * *
>>70476527
Probably mutual aid groups... though I despise the idea of some made-up 'social contract'.
>>70476641
Don't call me or my wife's son a communist again
>>70476751
nice ad hominem prejoratives
really proves your argument
>>70475610
There are numerous ways to avoid paying the 30,000 bill you might get left with, like a HSA. The ultimate point is that if we allow widespread competition, the costs will be driven down for lower income families to afford. There will always be people without healthcare, whether by choice or by circumstances, but public healthcare is not a solution, as it destroys the quality and availability of healthcare. The idea that equity takes precedence over quality and supply is ridiculous.
>>70476357
Nationalism doesn't really require government. Private individuals through any market based means can form a nation, build a wall, and agree to remove trespassers (immigrants).
>>70473972
This one works on so many levels. Specifically 2.
>>70472040
A nother national soccer team flag for collection.
There are ACTUALLY people in this thread that DON'T want to be left alone.
Like lmao just look around, this is what socialism gets you in any form.
>>70476527
the "social contract" doesn't explicitly encompass helping the suck and less fortunate though that can be implied. Additionally, one can argue that it is also just a mechanism designed to quell dissent, labelling you an irrational being if you refuse to partake in "society" (hypothetical consent)
and what he >>70476656 said
>>70476686
Libertarianism is a compromise. Anarcho-Capitalism is a totally philosophically consistent ideology.
>>70476686
i was never sure how you'd hyphenate anarchy into ancap or ansoc or anything, how do you decide or sanction what it would be like at all once there is no monopoly on force?
>>70476751
wow you really showed him
>>70476863
Then those companies have officially become governments
>>70476751
who cares. Get real.
>>70476863
I actually hadn't thought about that. But from a legal / constitutional point of view, isn't it problematic if private citizens decide to deport people? On who's authority could they do that?
>>70476793
I chuckled, but are you implying that I'm a cuck or are you just memeing
>>70476816
nice insecurity
really proves that you're an insecure little bitch who got triggered by the truth
>>70476947
yeah, it's consistent, but it wouldn't really work. we require a defense force and a membrane between US and THEM. ancap wouldn't work. libertarianism already has worked splendidly.
>>70477021
Government is involuntary whereas free markets are voluntary.
>>70477031
fuck off back to your shit stinking mud hut, misprint spain
>>70476169
>Hoppe
>man who basically admits that we would need to exterminate the degenerates before setting up the libertarian paradise
What a joke.
>>70477089
How so?
All threads should be like this.
We dump our collections, have a bit of fun, then get to serious conversations.
>>70477062
They could deport people because everything is privately owned. As a property owner, I can kick people out for trespassing.
>>70477069
both your a cuck for caring
>>70472381
Kek, saved.
>>70477077
The truth that I'm dumbass? I don't think so. You're the triggered one friend. Go back to spamming your memes, you shouldn't be engaging in human conversation else you'll have an anneurosm.
>>70477286
I was only pretending
>>70477243
Agreed. Surprisingly civil as well.
>>70477281
Right, makes sense. You've given me things to think about, thanks!
>>70476947
How so? Not going to into extremities isn't compromise, it's just a basic understanding of nuance and not being a total faggot who sees everything in black or white
>>70477089
>free markets are voluntary.
have you ever worked a day in your life? i guarantee you wage slaves aren't working voluntarily
>>70477085
I'm not so sure. Weapons, men, and resources would be bountiful in a free market society. As long as the citizens are willing to repel an invasion of a state, the state cannot function without genociding the people.
So many butt hurt stormfags
> you're not cucking yourself to gubment?
> cuck
You natsoc faggots are the all-time gayest meme
>>70477242
You are born into an agreement with the state. The closest thing to a choice in the matter you get is your ability to move to a different country after going through a lot of hassle, but even with the advent of inter-governmental organizations that choice is getting eroded away too.
However in a market you can choose what you buy, and what you do for a living. You can even compete in the market yourself. You can't do that with a state.
>>70477435
They are working voluntarily. Wage slavery doesn't exist.
>>70477435
Who's forcing you to go to work?
>>70477281
Drawing borders in crayon doesn't mean you own the property. In a no-government society, nobody really "owns" land.
>>70477372
Oh you did that on purpose?
>>70477405
Fallacy of the middle ground.
Libertarians still allow their government to steal from them by force (tax) and violate the NAP. Anarcho-capitalists view theft being wrong as a universal moral judgement.
>>70477570
I'm not sure that's true. Private property rights is very much a part of ancap.
>>70477579
It was all an elaborate ruse, anon
My name is Ahmed and I do the cucking
>>70477394
Read Democracy The God That Failed by Hans-Hermann Hoppe and some of the later works by Murray Rothbard for more insight on this kind of stuff.
>>70477570
Anarcho-capitalism isn't a true "no government" environment. However in a manner of speaking every atomized individual and their property becomes a state of sorts in itself.
And so limited only by your ability to defend it you could kick anyone you like off your property.
>>70477582
Consequentialist Libertarians don't espouse the NAP and other moral arguments like "initiation of force is always wrong."
>>70477435
For a start we can't have true free markets with the existence of a state anyway. Secondly, choosing to work for Mcdonalds is voluntary as you could choose to work for someone else or yourself.
>>70477498
You can easily compete with the state. Ever heard of liberland?
Also, you realize that freedom is a socisl construct right? The only thing stopping you from burning down the government is other fellow citizens.
>>70477206
my shit goes like this...
Inside of your stinky mouth!
>>70475206
Nuggets stop shit posting and help
>>70477715
And you're completely right. But remember that there's nobody to buy the property from and gain the rights to defend it. In our society, the government is a business, and you are paying for something that they already own.
>>70477729
In what circumstance is initiation of force morally acceptable?
>>70477582
Not everything that's not to the extreme is middle ground. Libertarianism was never about having no government or taxes, it's about having a small government. There are things the government should do like the Military and roads under a libertarian system.
>>70472040
Why would you even bother posting a thread like this here? Autists will always shit post it to death. They don't care if you have the best arguments in the world, they've made up their mind and just look for evidence to back up their preconceived notions. Really childish shit.
>>70477435
I've worked for years, it is completely voluntary, and I try and put my best into it and always strive to improve. I could quit in no time, if I ever came to dislike my job.
Government, on the other hand, just grabs my cash so it can spend it on ponzi schemes, blowing up kids, spying on me, seizing assets, etc.
>>70477758
I disagree, freedom is a god given (or "nature given", if you will) right and privilege. Burning down the government, unfortunately, does not terminate its existence.
>>70477758
You mean the place run by the guy who gets bullied by the Croatian government?
This is what I mean, you can't just make your own country without considerable force of arms because states are naturally violent and that's the only language they recognize.
>Also, you realize that freedom is a socisl construct right?
Yes.
>>70477888
Here's your help-
Buy nuggets on McDonald's.
Sent.
>>70472040
Not me. Libertarianism is degenerate and ruled by the precept of "I can do whatever I want to do".
Thus feminism, leftism, tranagenderism, and tall the other shit will be promoted because it's "what I want to do, it's not hurting anyone!".
Libertarianism is an ideology for self obsessed children.
>>70477929
You guys are just liberals who wants to smoke weed.
>>70477698
Oh really now, join the club, we're all Muslim here
>>70478005
You're right, but it also protects our right to mock the shit out of it. A right that seems to be slowly eroding away now.
>>70478005
Read Hoppe.
>>70478005
Okay, why do you oppose the concept of people doing their own thing?
>>70478005
> you can't just go doing things you want to.
> what if I don't agree with them
Authoritarianism is for you then faggot. Have fun being a cuck to the government
>>70478175
muh degeneracy
white pride 1488
faggots reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>70477945
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
What I'm saying is that there's no such thing as freedom or lack of it. There's nobody stopping you from doing anything, only consequences to make you reconsider. If every one of the government's citizens wanted to tear it down, we could do it easily. But the truth is we don't. The government is just a company that is liked by a lot of people and has a lot of funding and land.
>>70478005
>I can do whatever I want to do".
Not if it infringes on the rights of others.
> feminism, leftism, tranagenderism, and tall the other shit will be promoted
All of this shit is promoted as it stands so I don't see your point.
>leftism
People would be better off economically speaking so leftists would have no base.
>Libertarianism is an ideology for self obsessed children.
Ad-hom.
Children like to steal toys and are reliant on others to care for them. What kind of politics does that remind me of?
>>70477912
I don't care about moral arguments.
>>70478416
Doesn't this just sum up socialist ideology perfectly
>>70478340
Ah okay, I see your point and I suppose I agree as well.
Who here /ancap/?
>>70478005
Are you actually this incapable of abstract thought? Christ, stay a shill, you deserve to be fucked over in life.
>>70477458
man, the main multiplier of power in military exertions today is A, logistics, and B, command and control. if china, say, sent a division with 25,000 men over to a country like the USA, with 300,000 people, but no military and organization beyond 'cmon bill, grab yer gun, chinks are here" they could easily conquer a vast amount of land with minimal casualties, and then set up for the other 9,975,000 men to land. plus the individual expense of owning, operating, maintaining, and knowing how to use the advanced technologies that are used in modern war are simply beyond the scope of even a well organized city. NYC, for example, could not on its own operate a fighter squadron and sam sites. there's just no way in hell. plus the vast logistics that make the american military so overwhelming is maintained by obscene amounts of talent, skill, and money.
perhaps someday every small city will be capable of operating its own fusion power plants and fabricating floating laser tanks and stuff but as it stands, as nice as it would be for a while, a land of peaceful, prosperous and productive people without a bulwark between them and predators wouldn't end well.
>>70478390
>Children like to steal toys and are reliant on others to care for them. What kind of politics does that remind me of?
Children also like to boss people around, demand things of them, and make threats if they don't get their way.
>>70478390
>>70478005
de_stroyed
>>70478416
Politics is intertwined with philosophy so tough luck. Would you complain if a socialist said they didn't care about economic arguments?
>>70478175
Because "people doing their own thing" isn't always good for the larger social body.
I'll use feminism as an example. Feminism has lead to lower birth rates, which consequently influenced mass immigration policies. Of course, it wasn't the only thing. The issue is a lot more complicated than that, but you get my point.
The needs of the larger social body trumps your personal feelings and degenerate wants. This is the basis of civilization: men trade their absolute freedom that they have in nature for the security of the social body.
>>70478005
>Thus feminism, leftism, tranagenderism, and tall the other shit will be promoted because it's "what I want to do, it's not hurting anyone!".
You realize that feminism is the result of government? It's essentially single moms married to the state.
Libertarians are against welfare. Single moms and their niglet offspring would starve to death on the street.
Libertarians are also anti-anti-discrimination. Freedom of association means that you can refuse service to niggers, transpeople, fags, or whoever.
All of the "degeneracy" is the result of state intervention.
>>70478515
>Who here /autistic/?
Fixed that for you
>>70478495
I'm not a socialist though. Socialists only argue morals anyways. They just repeat shit about the evil capitalists and how they abuse the working class.
>>70478204
Have fun going extinct and collapsing because your society doesn't have any foundations. This is precisely why the west is dieing.
>>70478659
I can't find the argument.
>>70478620
Because feminists are such libertarians...
>>70478390
You can say that this is what you value or that it is what Libertarianism strives to achieve, but what does Libertarianism accomplish in practice? Citizens are reduced to the value of their economic output and there are no safeguards against degeneracy or external subversion. Pretty shit form of government and doomed to fail desu senpai.
>>70478712
>Socialists talk about morals therefore morals are irrelevant to politics.
Socialists also talk about economics. Is economics irrelevant?
>>70478620
Are you trying to force feminists to breed, you sicko?
>>70477582
its really not stealing if you recieve exactly the benefit you are promised, and every recieves it as such.
a even, flat tax on all individuals to provide for defense and minimal operating costs wouldn't be immoral.
hey guys, i have a great idea. what if corporations weren't allowed to own money, and all businesses and assets had to have a singular owner, as a person? so, for example BILL GATES would own microsoft. when you buy a copy of windows, it goes to BILL GATES bank account. its his money. he can buy a hot dog with it, or he can open a new office building, and all paychecks to his employees are literally taken from BILL GATES bank account to the employee.
wouldn't that vastly simplify things, and corporate law?
>>70478390
>All of this shit is promoted as it stands so I don't see your point
That's because we live in a "I do what I want because I feel like it society".
>>70478515
Every AnCap retard's face in this thread
>>70478659
When I said "who", I was talking about people.
A leaf is not a person.
>>70478763
People would demand protection so it would be provided by the free market.
>safeguards against degeneracy
Because government performs that role so well...
Keep on nitpicking guys, we'll just ignore the fact that governments have killed more people than anything else in history and always extend their power until they collapse
Question to my fellow ancaps and libertarians:
Because of freedom of association, what about people who are denied health insurance because they are already diagnosed with a disease that will end up costing the insurance company. If charity fails, they are pretty much fucked right?
>>70478620
Except here's the thing. You only need mass immigration if you continue to view people as a collective mass that needs to be guided by the government. Likewise ideologies like feminism can only be sustained through collectivism. Without a state to support these things they simply would not be a problem.
There however was a time when the market was king. It was the 1800s and even though drug use and working conditions were absolutely out of control it wasn't degenerate at all.
Why do the government justify immigrants? Because they need cheap labour. But when taxes and regulations don't limit the market there would be no need for this cheap disposable foreign labour.
>>70473300
He's pointing out how stupid the argument is.
>>70478712
Socialists only force their morals on others without any adherence to freedom of choice. This comes from not being able to discuss morals with another because you can't help but sperg out every time. Are you really telling me you're not a natsoc?
>>70478620
In a libertarian society, women are dependent on men. Monogamy would reign and marriage would be strong. Families would be important as a safety net / support structure.
It is the welfare state that has destroyed families.
>>70478802
It would be stealing because you could not opt out. If I place an orange in your hands then grab a dollar out of your pocket and run away, I have stolen, the fact I gave you something in return is irrelevant since the agreement was involuntary
>>70478599
No, because that would be admitting that their ideology doesn't work in the real world.
>>70478779
>Socialists talk about morals therefore morals are irrelevant to politics.
I never said that. The reason I think moral arguments are irrelevant is because moral arguments boggle down practicality and cost-benefit relationships, which are the most important factor.
>>70478628
>You realize that feminism is the result of government? It's essentially single moms married to the state.
>Libertarians are against welfare. Single moms and their niglet offspring would starve to death on the street.
>Libertarians are also anti-anti-discrimination. Freedom of association means that you can refuse service to niggers, transpeople, fags, or whoever.
>All of the "degeneracy" is the result of state intervention.
The thing you forget is that poor people generally dont just accept death and die. If you think millions of people are going to willingly starve to death because muh freedumbs you are insane, the second they think they wont be able to eat for the next month they will join up with the nearest communist milita and lolbertardianisms refusal to have a government that can properly defend itself ideologically or militarily means they will suddenly be living in a communist country.
Libertarianism and Classical liberalism leads to communism quickly. Fascism or what used to be called postwar welfare capitalism/socialdemocracy delays.
tl;dr: you're shitting on your own plate
>>70478390
>Not if it infringes on the rights of others.
Your doing whatever you want infringes on the rights of the larger social body: the right to maintain a stable and healthy society that will continue to be passed on generation to generation. It's a right because we traded our absolute freedom to form the larger social body.
A society in which unchecked selfishness rules will collapse.
>>70478716
> going extinct
> Not enough govt in the west. That's why it's failing
Please please explain how more taxes, more govt spending, taking more freedoms from people would help?
>>70478802
>its really not stealing if you recieve exactly the benefit you are promised, and every recieves it as such.
It would still be stealing.
If I bring my car to Jiffy Lube for an oil change, suppose they change the air filter without asking me. Then they charge me for changing the air filter. Is that right?
It's not, because I didn't ask for it. Just like I didn't ask for Social Security.
>>70472689
Ad hominem harder pls
>>70472040
Used to be a libertarian, but then I realized that their economics are stupid. No math or scientific basis, basically just couch-logiced out with a bunch of false premises, exactly like communism.
>>70479201
>People will starve to death because of a lack of government
Sorry, does government provide you food? No. It taxes food however, raising the price. It also taxes you meaning you have less money for food.
Your flag's looking a little yellow there. Did some ayncrap piss on it?
>>70479294
> I didn't ask for Social Security.
I am sure you are saving money to repay all the money you/your parents received by child support.
>>70479336
Any examples? No?
Please tell me why statist economics make sense.
>>70479402
Fuck off commie.
>>70479336
Capitalism revolves around the basis of a free market. How is that stupid?
>>70477363
STRONG projection detected
holy shit, you're sperging out hard right now you insecure little faggot
>this is how shittertarians actually behave
>>70479342
> does government provide you food
Provides logistics so that food can be supplied to me.
>>70479457
>statist economics
What is that? What is a statist?
>>70479009
>If charity fails, they are pretty much fucked right?
They could try to qualify for a medical loan. If they have any assets or income, it shouldn't be hard to get.
If they can't get a loan, yes they are fucked.
Although I must say, if you can't get charity from anyone - you're probably a fucking awful person and everyone hates you (and you deserve to die).
>>70479566
Just prax it out, praxeology ftw.
>>70475206
ANYONE??????????¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿
ancap global map
http://ancapistan.com/
>>70479149
and suppose that the person was on the verge of scurvy but without that dollar you could not provide the orange?
>>70479294
so you say it's stealing. but most people will opt in. you're not taxed unless you make money anyways; so at that point you can decide. but what do we do with those who opt out? the answer is, if we get invaded, they are thrown to the enemy to be enslaved? because after all, most people paid taxes to have a military to protect them, and did so willingly. but if the military protected those who did not pay, the military would be stealing from the tax payers, and if that person recieved that defense and did not fend for his self against an enemy, HE would be a thief of others tax money.
you see?
when a persons starts to work, he can pay his 6% tax, or, choose to not be defended when we're attacked!
this presents a practical problem. perhaps the easiest solution is a generous banishement if someone starts working and does not wish to pay?
Who here has masturbated to Ayn Rand before?
Be honest.
>>70479613
Thank you!
>>70479613
> if you can't get charity from anyone
I've seen many cases. And some of this piss poor people are some of the best people i've met.
>>70479092
>In a libertarian society, women are dependent on men. Monogamy would reign and marriage would be strong. Families would be important as a safety net / support structure
No. In a libertarian society people will do what they want because the highest moral code is "if it doesn't hurt anyone, I can do it because I feel like it.".
Feminism doesn't hurt anyone, nor does it infringe upon anyone's rights. It is entirely compatible with libertarianism.
However, feminism does affect the larger social body. It doesn't do it immediately. It takes a few generations. But the larger social body is not something libertarians are concerned with because "me, me, me" is the highest moral imperative.
Libertarianism is the fusion of Jewish capitalist greed and the worst kind of amarol selfishness.
>>70479692
>Brazil
What?
>>70479692
This is kinda cool and creepy at the same time.
>>70474317
This.
>>70478996
It's stupid to qualify hypotheticals of your preferred form of government against the actions of present-day western governments because of their rampant corruption. This is similar to shitlibs criticizing Bush when pressed on their leaders' discrepancies. It's an easy strawman to defeat but it ultimately means nothing in the context of the question being asked. Libertarianism is an inferior ideology because it doesn't provide the societal cohesion and quality of life that nationalist centrist and rightist ideologies do. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that policy based only on free market economics and some Jews' ideas of an individualistic society isn't going to hold together or perform the functions of government well enough.
>>70479723
>tfw you realize Rand Paul and Ayn Rand share a name
It MUST be intentional
>>70479803
Really well said.
Especially this part
>Libertarianism is the fusion of Jewish capitalist greed and the worst kind of amarol selfishness.
When people aren't being taxed they give more to charity, fact. When people are taxed they view helping the disabled as government's responsibility so the problem seems distant.
>>70479822
Yes!
Brazil have the biggest anarcho capitalist population
>>70479918
For a long time I didn't know who Rand Paul was and thought it was some kind of nickname for his dad.
>>70479950
>When people aren't being taxed they give more to charity, fact.
Source?
>>70479885
>Libertarianism is an inferior ideology because it doesn't provide the societal cohesion and quality of life that nationalist centrist and rightist ideologies do
Any evidence for that claim?
>>70480114
Since libertarianism is purely a exercise of thought, a thinking exercise, you go ahead and make those exercises.
>>70479950
Also, the government can never be as efficient as a private company in anything including charity.
>>70479692
>an ancap lives five minutes away from me
Would be pretty funny to call the cops on them for possession of drug and see them go SOVEREIGN CITIZEN on them
>>70480114
The maintenence of social cohesion and the health of the social body would, in some cases, require forcefuless and methods which cross the boundaries set by the NAP.
>>70479803
>Feminism doesn't hurt anyone, nor does it infringe upon anyone's rights
Feminists put political pressure on governments to pass legislation and taxation to artificially advantage women. That is an infrigement of the rights of men (white men have the highest tax burden in society by far)
>Libertarianism is the fusion of Jewish capitalist greed and the worst kind of amarol selfishness.
Very few Jews are libertarian, I think you'll find the majority support big governments.
Can you tell me why capitalists are "greedy"? Providing jobs and goods/services that people voluntarily demand is not greedy.
Selfishness is taking from others what is not yours ie taxation. It's a shame you've fallen for marxist propaganda that leads you to believe that keeping what you produce is selfish but taking what others produce is moral.
Libertarianism is essentially the opposite of "gibsmedat"
>>70480401
>Also, the government can never be as efficient as a private company in anything including charity.
Source?
>>70479696
Taxes for a military are one thing. Taxes for social security are another.
These are different kinds of products. One is fundamental to the existence of the state, the other is a redistributive transfer program.
>All these babbys who didn't browse /pol/ before Trump's candidacy and don't remember when this board was 99% libertarian\
Props to everyone else who hasn't changed
>>70479723
I've never even thought about it but thanks for the recommendation, I'll remember it later tonight
>>70480668
Governments have imperfect knowledge due to their price fixed artificial monopoly.
The free market always adjusts itself (invisible hand) to what is most efficient due to price's incentive and rationing effects.
That's just the economic side. Don't forget governments want to pander to voters ie Bernie Sanders giving students free tuition in exchange for votes. If firms want more customers they have to provide better goods/services or lower price which is beneficial to consumers
>>70480683
i agree.
i was pointing out that not *all* taxes are theft, and as a worst case scenario, what does one do with someone who does not wish to pay taxes at all? because he then becomes a thief, in some circumstances.
>>70481113
No. All taxes are theft, end of story.
If you want to be utilitarian and claim that some taxes are absolutely necessary, be my guest but you can't change a fact.
>>70480936
>If firms want more customers they have to provide better goods/services or lower price
Monopolies??
>The free market always adjusts itself (invisible hand) to what is most efficient due to price's incentive and rationing effects.
Is this straight out of libertarian holy bible? It's a whole lot of assumptions without proff or anything similar
>Don't forget governments want to pander to voters ie Bernie Sanders giving students free tuition in exchange for votes.
When was the last time a elected president/prime minister actually followed up his campaign promises?
>>70481113
My preferred policy is to make the military draft optional. People that opt-in will have the privilege of voting, serving in government, and other things.
My preferred tax is the land value tax, which isn't a violation of the NAP between the tax payer and the state.
>>70480114
I hope you aren't asking for an example of how nationalistic governments provide superior social cohesion. You could follow up by asking for an example of how a stove might be hot.
Fascistic governments only allow economic activity that serves the national interest. Thus, instead of a situation like your friend >>70479613 mentioned in which a citizen will need to seek charity for his medical treatments or die, Jew pharma companies would not be allowed to prolong treatment for profit or charge unaffordable prices in the first place. That's not to mention that state-funded healthcare would take care of him in the first place. Government's final say over corporate actions also extends to corporate offenses like pollution and harmful food and water additives. Economic competition isn't going to give you an out from a corporate offense that's so profitable everyone is doing it, but government policing corporate actions can.
>>70481309
in the situation that one chooses to not pay taxes, and then the nation is attacked, does he become a thief because he did not pay taxes?
NOT paying taxes is theft, if you use the service those voluntary taxes went towards!
like i said, a person is not ASKED to pay any taxes until he begins making money; at which point, could we not ask him to leave if he did not wish to, as virtually everyone would pay taxes for the common defense, considering that the result of not doing so would be to be banished in time of war?
>>70481321
Bad monopolies simply can't exist in a free market.
>Is this straight out of libertarian holy bible? It's a whole lot of assumptions without proff or anything similar
Basic economics. More people want to catch a bus? Bus ticket price goes up. Encourages more people to sell bus services. Competition forces the price back down. Perfect.
>When was the last time a elected president/prime minister actually followed up his campaign promises?
Governments pander to voters often. Are you saying they never pander to voters? What about the military industrial complex? Is that not a thing?
![Gadsden-Flag[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/BpHIvOl.png "Gadsden-Flag[1]")
![100917_hongkongcages[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NKIqfuv.jpg "100917 hongkongcages[1]")
