I used to be a classical liberal, i.e. libertarian,
Then I got really sick, that I had to get treatment. I was in the hospital for 3 weeks, until I could go home. Now I cannot work anymore, so I receive a small monthly government check that keeps me alive. Meanwhile I´m trying to expand my income through website building, coding and other methods. However, I would not be able to survive without my government help. So then I realized there a thousands of people like me, who would die in a libertarian society. Maybe not in a libertarian utopia, but in a real life practical libertarianism. How do you justify that, unless you are an edgy teen. I know now how many elderly feel, when they get sick, and all left alone, no pension, no nothing. The thing is, social security is necessary. The very fact society takes care of its sick and weak makes us civilized. Chance is high you will become very sick one day, and then you'll need government help. In the end, you got to realize society is made up of people working together. I am not a libertarian anymore, I don't vote for mr little government anymore and mr privatize everything. Its all fun and games being a libertarian when you are healthy and rich, or have many possibilities waiting for you. But the majority isn't that. There's nothing worse then being left to rot because of harmful substances you got exposed to or a disease you got. I wouldn't be able to pay for the care with privatized healthcare. Luckily our Geert Wilders is pro social healthcare and anti privatized healthcare.
>>70442504
yeah, social security is necessary, but it's not the job of the goddamn state.
get an insurance if you want your ass covered, else suffer. It's not the state's job.
>>70442698
Poor people are the least able to afford insurance, and the most likely to need it.
Solve that one free market.
>>70442698
Social healthcare doesn´t mean there´s no insurance policy, we have insurance policy here too. It just means the government puts extra money on medicine so that it costs less for you. That might be paid from tax-payer money but otherwise it would be very expensive for low to middle income households
Some must fall before others can rise.
actually socialism is not that bad, but it should only be applied to natural born citizens of a country.
There should be no benefits for foreigners
>>70442504
If you're not capable you should die and stop burdening society.
I don't mind helping people who deserve it so long as they are the same ethnicity. Leeches of all colours can be gassed though.
>>70442504
A private party can invest in your health care and you owe the party to pay the investment back according to the contract. I don't know how this would work with elderly people or people with no skills in general. I can also see this going horribly wrong.
>>70442504
>How do you justify that, unless you are an edgy teen
How do you justify being a leech on hard working people?
>The very fact society takes care of its sick and weak makes us civilized.
Welfare is not the definition of civilization. If anything, it's a measure of the decline of civilization.
>>70443122
>>70443170
Thanks guys. I agree
Geert Wilders PVV is our anti-immigrant party and he is pro elderly care and universal healthcare and welfare state, just not for immigrants and he wants tight immigration control. Lots of elderly vote for him because our current "social liberal" government is privatizing some aspects of healthcare and removing a lot of care for elderly, while also cutting welfare. meanwhile they do give housing to 150.000 refugees for free so it angers a lot of us
>>70442504
>What is charity
When people are taxed less they donate more to charity, as they can't offload responsibility for protecting vulnerable people to the government.
You would buy insurance, and get charitable support rather than forcing me to pay for your welfare cheque.
Statist cucks BTFO.
>>70443351
You know which country was ethnically homogeneous but with a huge welfare state?
Answer : Sweden.
Welfare states make a people docile, subservient and apathetic. Geert Wilders might be nationalistic, and his Netherlands might refuse immigrants, but after a few generations of allowing the untermenschen to breed because "muh human rights" you will end up with an untermenschen population, who will beg for immigrants to come back. Just look at Sweden today.
>>70442504
It's good precisely because not everyone is capable, it weeds out the incompetent in a non-violent manner.
If you didn't get the government check, you would be helped out by your family and friends (which would have more money since they don't have to spend it on taxes), or if you don't have any of those, a charity.
>>70443122
This. Most welfare is being ate up by lazy freeloading foreigners. I'd rather give it to a natural-born citizen, even if they were a lazy bum.
In theory the welfare state works, but only if you maintain a homogeneous and nationalist society where it's seen as something worthy of shame and only temporary until you get back onto your feet.
>>70442504
So you use other peoples money as your family?
>>70443583
>In theory [INSERT WORD] works
Usually a tell tale sign that it has never worked and will never work.
>>70443332
I was just like you until I got sick, but reality is different from theory. I don't consider myself a leech because I paid into the tax system myself before I got sick. Rich people would not be rich without governments, because governments create the society, the laws and controls the cash flow, all the necessary equipment for becoming rich.
>>70443501
>Implying 100% population are willing to do charity.
Bitch please.
>>70443501
sure people where more Christian in the 1800´s but millions died on the streets because of poverty because of the absence of government regulation during the industrial age. Charity is nice in theory but doesn´t cover it in practice
When one of you guys get sick you will know. I was exactly like you guys before I got sick.
>>70443720
>I was just like you until I got sick, but reality is different from theory.
Not really, you're just no different than a freeloading nigger.
You've always been a niggerloving cuckold faggot. You just deluded yourself into thinking you were a lolbertarian.
You disgust me.
>I'm pro small government
>*catches cold*
>government halp!
>>70443670
it works now, even with those greedy foreign leeches. without those freeloaders, it would work quite well actually.
>>70442832
Poor people can go ahead and die. People die all the fucking time. Humans are literal trash
>>70443909
>I was exactly like you guys before I got sick.
And let me guess, now you #feelthebern?
>>70443550
>If you didn't get the government check, you would be helped out by your family and friends (which would have more money since they don't have to spend it on taxes), or if you don't have any of those, a charity.
My father died of asbestos cancer and my mother has Alzheimer, I don´t think they can take care of me. I could stay at my friends for a max of a few days, then I´d have to hit the street.
>>70443758
>100% of the population gives charity to the poor wittle govewment
>>70443925
>it works now
It really doesn't. Or if by "works" you mean sub-replacement fertility rates, a culture of political correctness, total lack of ambition, escapism in drugs and sex...
Total degeneracy.
>>70443758
Without being taxed to shit and without retarded government programs, even a small amount of people giving to charity would be enough.
>>70443940
I know it sounds like something Scrooge would say in the Christmas Carol, but it's true.
>>70442832
> number of poor people increases
> there is now incentive to make a policy profitable for all these people
>>70443976
of course not, I don´t like socialists
I am a social nationalist
>>70442504
Thousands of people die for various reasons in every society, that's not an argument against libertarianism.
>>70444163
>I am a social nationalist
Meme word, like "social democrat" or "democratic socialist".
You're a big gubment loving freeloader who feels entitled to other people's money. At least have the balls to admit it, you dishonest nigger.
>>70444095
>Japan
>complains about European fertility rates
>complains about degeneracy
>>70444243
Thats is true, but many more would die in a libertarian society. Before ww2 the Netherlands was a classical liberal society and tens of thousands of people died on the streets during the Great Depression because the liberal government believed it was bad to intervene.
>>70444163
So you want to violate my right to keep the produce of my labour by taxing me to shit to pay for you when you get ill, with the evidence that this inevitably leads to wastefull government programs like wars.
>>70444383
I'm not Japanese, I'm a french expat.
And yes, Japan today is also pure degeneracy. Or are you a degenerate yourself perhaps?
>>70442504
That's why you have family and friends.
You know, people who help you when you're in trouble.
>>70444444
Checked.
>>70444299
its not meme at all, it describes exactly what I believe. Social policies combined with nationalism.
Right now our government is increasingly anti-nationalistic and anti-social policies UNLESS you are a refugee, you will get a free house and monthly cashflow, while they cut elderly care, cut medical care and NOT cut taxes.
That is what modern classical liberal / social liberal governments always do in real life. They always cut everything EXCEPT taxes, while they do promise to cut taxes, it just doesn't happen.
>>70442504
Cool blog post faggot.
>>70444501
>family and friends.
How problematic. Family and friends are antiquated, oppressive bourgeois values. Your only relationship should be with the state
>>70444444
shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiet
>>70444467
you certainly are one giant edgelord
>>70444444
CAN'T LET THESE GO UNCHECKED
>>70444648
>its not meme at all, it describes exactly what I believe.
Well I'm afraid to break the news but you believe in memes.
Enjoy your decrepit welfare state you fucking sheep.
>>70444787
Triggered much? Perhaps >>>/red/ddit is more suited for you.
>>70444648
>>70442504
why are you broadcasting that you have literally no empathy
>hurr when i was strong i loved lolbertardianism fuck the poor
>now im weak feel the bern gib moneies
your right though lolbertarfianism is dumb
>>70444986
See >>70444899
>I have no rational argument against libertarianism so I have to use the emotional ad-hominem of selfishness
>>70444899
You believe in a world without corruption.
If man was perfect libertarianism would work, just like communism.
Give me one example of a libertarian society, otherwise gtfo
I agree. There is a role for government in certain cases when it comes to health care. For example, if I am born with severe schizophrenia and need to live in a mental institution my entire life, how am I going to pay for insurance and make a living wage to pay for my millions in medical bills?
Governments respond to natural disasters, they need to invest in programs to protect the vets, they have a role to protect their people from Isis and sometimes use military action.
Libertarianism is an inflexible ideology that calls for open boarders. Freedom is just another word for more globalism and less nationalism. I am a nationalistic far right common sense conservative. Libertarianism will never work and being really stubborn about one ideology limits the scope of everything you say and do.
How would libertarians get a man on the moon?
>>70444986
this
based Jakub, leading the west slavs
>>70444444 WOW WHAT A NUMBER
>>70445146
>or example, if I am born with severe schizophrenia and need to live in a mental institution my entire life, how am I going to pay for insurance and make a living wage to pay for my millions in medical bills?
You don't, you fuck off and die and stop polluting society.
>>70444103
Would you donate to some unknown sick faggot you don't care about? Would you donate to 10, 20, 100 of unknown sick faggots? Wouldn't you just get tired of this shit and stop donating one day? If you stop or just couldn't donate enough, poor sick faggots will die. If you don't stop, you will go broke, because you will have to donate the share of those who decide not to. You see, there will not be any less of those who need, but certainly will be more of those, who'd rather spend the money on themselves. Besides, in modern society people prefer to donate not to those who need it most, but to those, who entertain the donor more. I am talking streamers and such. You catch my drift, you know what I mean.
>>70444444
>"qOd'
>444444
FUCKING CHECKED
>>70443917
*tips fedora*
>>70445146
>Freedom is just another word for more globalism and less nationalism
Literally kill yourself you subhuman piece of nigger shit.
>>70445101
>Give me one example of a libertarian society, otherwise gtfo
Loaded question. Was this not true of socialism before it had been tried? Why is the rational of Libertarianism invalidated by the fact that it has never been tried?
That said, the success of the United States over Europe in the last 2 centuries is a testament to how personal freedom works.
>>70445310
Thank you
>>70444444
CHECKED AND REKT
>>70444737
And you seriously think nobody would help you?
Do you think before socialized welfare people just died on the streets?
Yes, if they were no goods and criminals.
Without the nanny state you wouldn't have parasites leeching off welfare, people would actually have to rely on the goodness of others to live in a society or get cast out.
The problem of apathy is a direct result of the superstate.
People don't like to see good people suffer.
If you're a good person, you would never find yourself without help.
>>70445146
>How would libertarians get a man on the moon?
If you think it's acceptable for governments to take money from everyone by threat of violence, just because they put a man on the moon then there is no use trying to debate with you.
>>70445310
>You catch my drift,
That you're a moron?
You should be deported to the gulag, I heard they have free healthcare.
>>70442698
This
>>70445310
Arn't you doing the same selfish thing? You are enslaving people by having them pay your way in life. I don't think you're that important.
> In a libertarian society, what happens if a nuclear reactor explodes? How will free markets have an incentive to clean up nuclear waste?
> Do libertarians want to end all funding to NASA? I think as a society we can agree that getting a man on the moon was probably man's greatest achievement.
> How will libertarians respond to serious terrorist, environmental, social threats?
> How will libertarians build good roads, bridges, ect.
Libertarians have a hate for government and from that point they form their ideas. There will never be a libertarian society in the future because the problems of having big societies today cannot be dealt with like in the 1800s.
> If someone says non agression principle one more time im gonna punch them in the face
>>70445289
Ah good old Asians and their lack of compassion or morality.
How many little girls did you see get run over by semi trucks today and keep on walking, buddy? Oh, wait, is that China? Sounds like you don't give a fuck about others either.
>>70445612
Oh look, another niggerloving cucknadian who loves the feeling of getting sodomized by the long dick of the government. Why am I not surprised?
How did the descendants of what were independent minded explorers, trappers and farmers, become such sheep-like cuckolds?
Or maybe you're a gook or shit.
>>70445658
I'm not Japanese you stupid fucking nigger.
What does a libertarian society do for an old person that can no longer work and is handicapped and needs to be taken care of?
>>70445310
the thing you forget is that poor people generally dont just accept death and die. if you think millions of people are going to willingly starve to death because muh freedumbs you are insane, the second they think they wont be able to eat for the next month they will join up with the nearest communist milita and lolbertardianisms refusal to have a government that can properly defend itself ideologically or militarily means they will suddenly be living in a communist shithole
>>70445394
The United States became a superpower because their economies boomed during world war 1 and world war 2 since they loaned huge sums to Britain, France, etc and a destructed Europe was a huge sales market for thousands of American products since Europe couldnt produce it themselves during and right after war time. America did not become succesfull because the of isolationist government policies.
I have nothing against personal freedom. I support lots of gun rights and loads of personal freedom, I even support the creation of local militia's. You don't have to be against all of that if you support universal healthcare. Not everything with the word social in it is fucking communism.
>>70442504
So before social security people just died when they got sic and when they couldn't afford food they would just starve? Back then there were charitable organizations, people were taken care of. Families who were well of gave cash for the poor families. Was it better than now back then, maybe not but it is a falsehood to say that people would just die if you didn't have socialized healthcare.
>>70445803
>You don't have to be against all of that if you support universal healthcare.
Yes you have you stupid fucking nigger. Because economic freedom is the most fundamental freedom there is. You cannot control economic life without extending control to every sphere of private life.
>>70445289
Something I can agree with! Meanwhile around here we're forced to pay for downies and can't even make fun of them or use them for a theme park called "Down Town" because it would be inhumane.
>>70445791
Thank you. This is exactly why Western Europe created welfare states after world war 2, to prevent the rise of communism.
Libertarianism inevitable leads to millions of deaths and then mass-uprisings. A man without food or shelter will gladly trade his "freedom" for some food and shelter after he'd tried all his options.
Libertarianism will never work.
NO LIBERTARIAN WILL EVER GET ELECTED AS THE LEADER OF ANY COUNTRY EVER
>>70445773
>implying there's a difference
lol
>>70442504
>i can't think in an abstract manner, therfor all my political beliefs are based on "my life"
basically everyone in politics today
no wonder its a cancerous pond of shit
SJW, nazis, libertarians , capitalists
fuck you all and your "realistic" approach
its just a powergrab based on your own situation within society
>>70445612
>In a libertarian society, what happens if a nuclear reactor explodes? How will free markets have an incentive to clean up nuclear waste?
What is insurance?
Also that would violate people's right to physical health and it would be a criminal case.
If NASA can't survive on a commercial basis, then what value is it providing to US citizens other than muh feels?
>> How will libertarians respond to serious terrorist, environmental, social threats?
What are private contractors?
> How will libertarians build good roads, bridges, ect
It's a service people demand so they will pay for it.
Keep up the nitpicking of libertarianism, I could go on all day about how governments are the number one cause by far of unnatural death throughout history. If governments work so well then how come society is collapsing?
>>70445781
They take care of him. The socialist would dump him intogovernment facility out of sight out of mind. It's a hellhole but at least it's efficient right?
>>70442504
see >>70442698
also, people, especially the rich, would be much more generous in charitable donations, and considering how small the minority you are part of is, it would be much more cost effective for a voluntary charity than the mismanagement nightmare that is government subsidising.
>>70442832
They are the least likely to be able to afford it because of government sanctioned monopolies which sque the market rates that are made available, aswell as constant inflation, you're framing your criticism in the current corporatist economy, not the free market that would exist in a libertarian country.
>>70442914
Social healthcare is what makes insurance so expensive, it is literally just a government enforced insurance monopoly which is mandatory for every citizen.
>>70446005
>A man without food or shelter will gladly trade his "freedom" for some food and shelter after he'd tried all his options.
And that man deserves to be treated as the slave he is.
I am actually in favor of all weak minded cuckolds such as yourself to be given a lifetime monthly allowance in exchange for sterilization. Your ilk would waste your pathetic lives living off the teat of the government, consuming the government-approved entertainment and living in certain designated zones, would not reproduce, and after a few generations we'd be forever rid off you degenerate slaves.
>>70446110
>Would you donate to some unknown sick faggot you don't care about? Would you donate to 10, 20, 100 of unknown sick faggots? Wouldn't you just get tired of this shit and stop donating one day? If you stop or just couldn't donate enough, poor sick faggots will die. If you don't stop, you will go broke, because you will have to donate the share of those who decide not to. You see, there will not be any less of those who need, but certainly will be more of those, who'd rather spend the money on themselves. Besides, in modern society people prefer to donate not to those who need it most, but to those, who entertain the donor more. I am talking streamers and such. You catch my drift, you know what I mean.
>the thing you forget is that poor people generally dont just accept death and die. if you think millions of people are going to willingly starve to death because muh freedumbs you are insane, the second they think they wont be able to eat for the next month they will join up with the nearest communist milita and lolbertardianisms refusal to have a government that can properly defend itself ideologically or militarily means they will suddenly be living in a communist shithole
Gotta give it to you libertarians, you sure LOVE toll booths.
Libertarianism is a joke philosophy
>>70446174
How can you say you are in favour of lots of personal freedom and than advocate for sterilization of masses of people because in your worldview they are 'inferior'.
You seem to be the psychopath
welfare programs might strengthen the security of the state from the inside and weaken it from the outside. free marketers might think that at this point in time it is more important to have a strong global presence than an internal one. also would explain the idea of open borders and less dependent citizens - though here i can see loyalty as a main fear of citizens.
>>70446292
>What is number plate reading technology
>What is technological advancement full stop
>>70443122
>actually socialism is not that bad, but it should only be applied to natural born citizens of a country.
You can't make this happen. Socialism is build through overpowering state. If state is overpowering why does it need to care about what its citizens want? instead it start to gravitate to serving ruling eilte agenda. USSR financed perpetual revolution around globe, Sweden takes rapefugees into the ass. Citizens? What citizens? They are serfs under socialism and have no real vote when decisions are made.
>>70446258
>doesn't know how the games were funded in Rome
>>70446441
>>70446258
In the past, masses of poorfags were a threat to the elite. Today, one Predator drone can turn your entire mob into a spot of red paste.
>>70442504
>Keeps me alive
dropped
Why can't you just work and save your own money? Or maybe you could get a job as a door opener or greeter or something similar. Or look at security cameras. Oh wait, you can't because the minimum wage is $15 and gets taxed out the asshole, so no one can afford to pay that.
If you're younger, you should seek help from your parents or relatives, if older, your children or relatives. This is more difficult now though as families become estranged because your happiness as an individual is more important than duty to your family.
Of course, there will always be people that fall through the cracks, and in the current situation its a lot more difficult for people in a bad situation to survive without the state, because of how the system has propagated itself. The state should only be used as a last resort, or in countries where there is a decent amount of trust/guilt at being a lazy fuck living off of welfare. It's just another way for the state to consolidate its power.
It is infinitely infuriating how fucked up peoples opinions on libertarianism is.
ONCE AND FOR ALL.
LIBERTARIANISM ISNT ANARCHY
There would still be small safeguards for people in your position anon.
>>70446388
I never said I'm in favor of forced sterilization. It would be entirely voluntary. A way to cull the stupid out of the gene pool.
You, however, want to FORCE me to give you money. Drop dead.
>You seem to be the psychopath
This isn't reddit, your "you have no feelings :((" name calling doesn't work here.
>>70446540
Good example. Entire nation as cannon fodder for delusions of elite.
>>70446822
The thing is Anarcho-capitalists do actually have explanations for how law and order would be kept in an anarchistic society.
>>70446388
How can you be in favor of denying welfare and healthcare to people just because they happened to be born outside of your country?
Seems almost psychopathic, no empathy.
>>70446822
Libertarianism is anarchy you absolute dumbass. The State does not follow the non aggression principle.
>>70446930
Nice bait sven 6/10
>>70446822
According to most libertarians here there wouldn't , they rather see me sterilized, starving on the street or killed. They are not really making it hard for me not to oppose their ideology.
>>70446822
you cant have your cake and eat it too senpai
>>70446258
again, you are framing your critique in the current defunct economic system, you are part of an extremely small part of your countries population; in a society where people aren't taxed out of their ass, aren't under the will of government sanctioned and enforced monopolies, and are able to gain competitive wages from the competitive market which they can enter with more valuable skills from a private school system, this world where wealth flows so seamlessly from top to bottom through the generations and the central bank sponsered class-gap doesn't exist; now imagine people don't have the same resentment for the unfortunate and needy because they aren't forced to sustain them by the government. even if only a quarter of the population of your country donated a penny, that would still be proportionally huge for the tiny minority that you are apart of.
You don't need the be dependant on what you perceive to be a benevolent government, it's just a scam to keep wealth at the top.
You could easily argue OP that government interference with healtcare, and insurance...without that interference it would cheapen it drastically (which it would). Then minimizing your own expenditures and consumerism would allow you to save for these kind of times. I agree with you that I'm not completely libertarian anymore, but that's because the vast majority of the world population is dumb as shit below 100IQ shit skins that can't even figure out where to shit. Then wonder why the smart people are getting the good shit and why they're left behind come together to try and implement some form of communism/socialism. Then other countries will exploit their own cheap labor to export their own goods to a stronger economy rotting that host's countries economy out from the inside. Smaller government is still right, but not complete libertarian and free-trade (would be interesting living in some anarcho-capitalist system). You are a short sighted pussy that can't fend for yourself. The proper system is some cross of nationalism with bare minimum amount of government securing boarders and implementing some form of trade between countries.
>>70442504
>classical liberal i.e. libertarian
Not at all the same thing.
>>70447031
>they rather see me sterilized, starving on the street or killed
>me, me, me!
The world doesn't revolve around you and your feelings of entitlement you insufferable nigger faggot. Jesus, you've successfully triggered me...
I fear for the future of western civilization.
>>70446988
Libertarianism is just a general term. It's just that Ancaps believe in universal morals ie states cannot exist because they would have to break their own laws with taxation (do not steal), whereas libertarians believe a small amount of government or night-watchman state is an unfortunate cost to pay for orderly society.
There are many nuances to libertarianism, from Ancaps, minarchists, classical liberals and more
I would fuck a young Ayn Rand. There's something ugly about her that makes her a bit cute in some weird way.
>>70445101
the point of libertarianism is that corruption is inevitable, so you should make sure the evil don't have the power over others to misuse in the first place, this really isn't such a difficult concept.
>>70444124
Yeah it's called healthcare insurance and the poor were priced out.
>>70447299
It's difficult for feeble-minded individuals. Keep in mind that you're talking to a guy who formulates his political ideology based on what he personally benefits from a given policy.
>>70447031
You'd have bought health insurance, or would be supported by charity. End of story.
>>70442504
>How do you justify that, unless you are an edgy teen
It is very much unclear that you would, actually and in point of fact, die under these circumstances. In a libertarian society one would assume that the ties of community, family and the network of charities would be stronger that they are now. Not only this, but in virtue of the fact that the libertarian society is one in which people posses a much greater proportion of their income compared to a welfare society, the possibility of other expending some of their resources to support you would be much greater.
There is further the fact that, under a libertarian society, the type of insurance scheme from which you are currently benefiting would, in all likelihood, exists under a privatized form. Namely, employment disability insurance would be something which you would be free to buy so that it could benefit you in times of need. Since you would be living under a libertarian society, you would have been socialized in such a way that you would have been aware that these were the kinds of things you could purchase in order to protect yourself. Furthermore, your (previous) employer may very well be be offering such a plan to his employee through some sort of contract with a private insurance company.
Therefore, in a libertarian society, there would exists several mechanism through which the kinds of risks you are alluding to would be taken into consideration.
>>70442504
Charities and family members should be helping you. Not the government.
>>70447299
You do realize various forms of government corruption is inevitable too right? It's just they make it legal for them to be corrupt.
>>70447031
Libertarianism leaves social issues up to local cities and communities but their remains a small federal government for the necessity of Protecting Borders, Destroying a monopoly in the free market, Providing basic Mental Healthcare to keep homeless people and shit off the street.
Government is NEEDED and a definitive part of legitimate free market libertarianism albeit extraordinarily small relevant to the government we've seen for 150 years..
>>70447005
How is it bait? The only difference between that argument and the OPs is geography.
>>70447521
This is all nice in theory but this has never happened in real life. It's like Marxists saying it will all be nice and great and everyone will be voluntary helping to better society and create a communist world utopia, only to find out that in real life it creates the opposite. In real life libertarianism leads to the opposite of the utopian and "extremely fair" world it described. It leads to mass-poverty and death and finally, to a revolution of the have-nots against the haves. Not everyone is a healthy, young entrepreneurial male or female that grew up in a stable house with a many resources to his use to become successful.
>>70447754
biology
wait a minute, how does a libertarian society not ultimately end as an oligarchy? why is a libertarian society even considered feasible?
>>70447235
>you've successfully triggered me
Relax, it's probably a troll. Not too long ago someone posted an anecdote about the success of a labour union they were a member of; they struck down the evil capitalists and claimed their fair share! Later in the thread he admitted that the story was fake and that he was a communist. I can't imagine anyone who was a genuine libertarian suddenly shifting their views after they fell ill.
>>70447712
>remains a small federal government for the necessity of Protecting Borders, Destroying a monopoly in the free market, Providing basic Mental Healthcare to keep homeless people and shit off the street.
>Protecting Borders
No.
>monopoly in the free market
No such thing.
>Providing basic Mental Healthcare
Nope.
>>70447475
to be fair, self interest is what we count on to drive a market economy, he simply doesn't understand what is in his best interest.
>>70447648
obviously, or the US would still be as free as it was when it gained it's independence (some discrepancies like slavery excluded) but the argument that we shouldn't strive for freedom because tyrants may rise again in the future is a pretty weak one.
>Sic semper tyrannis
>>70447923
Nationstates are dictated by biology? Top kek.
I doubt there is a significant difference in biology between Dutch/Belgian/Burgundian/Luxemburgian people, for example.
>>70448070
Ok guy.
So you think libertarianism is anarchy. Got it.
This is why the movement can't get ground. Because fucking anarchists make us all look like idiots.
>>70448206
no, in that case the major difference is culture and culture can change, as long as its not a mass migration
>>70443544
Yeah, right, that's why Africa's population is exploding because only the Übermensch is able to breed. You have to take care of your people, and to put it in biological terms, your genepool. You sound like a libertarian caricature btw, cynical cruel rootless cosmopolitan.
>>70447918
>Dismissing things because they haven't been tried
What a lazy rebuttal. I'm guessing you'd be arguing against the liberals back in the 1700s that we should keep repressive monarchies and autocracies because democracy hasn't been tried. Pathetic.
> In real life libertarianism leads to the opposite of the utopian and "extremely fair" world it described
Wait, so it hasn't been tried yet, but you have the right to say what it leads to as fact? Hypocrisy.
>>70448042
A libertarian society indeeds inevitably ends up as an oligarchy, nothing can prevent that.
And oligarchy inevitable leads to socialism/communism.
Socialist and communist societies inevitably collapse, which will lead to oligarchy.
To prevent this whole envious circle, we introduce welfare-capitalism to prevent people from revolting by keeping them happy.
Sadly, it only prevents them for about 100 years, until the most spoiled generations want to try communism again.
And every repeats again.
Social security is going to run out one day anyway.
>>70447918
>In real life libertarianism leads to the opposite of the utopian and "extremely fair" world it described. It leads to mass-poverty and death and finally, to a revolution of the have-nots against the haves. Not everyone is a healthy, young entrepreneurial male or female that grew up in a stable house with a many resources to his use to become successful.
This is all nice in theory but this has never happened in real life.
>>70448634
>welfare-capitalism
Oxymoron.
>A libertarian society indeeds inevitably ends up as an oligarchy, nothing can prevent that.
Explain.
>>70447918
>This is all nice in theory but this has never happened in real life.
This is patently false. All the elements I have mentioned in my answer to you were things which either have happened or are happening still today. If you believe that the private insurance market is something that does not exist then I have some bad news for you. If you believe that somehow a government insurance scheme is fundamentally different than a bunch of private insurance schemes you are, again, mistaken.
If you believe that having an extended family possessing a much greater degree of their income would somehow result in them not helping you in times of need then I can only assume you have a very skewed view of family.
When people are allowed to keep a greater share of their income, the marginal use they can get out of that extra money goes down and it is therefore much more likely to go to """"frivolous"""" things such as charity or helping a family member in need.
We furthermore expect that the individual himself living in a libertarian society, keeping a greater proportion of his income, will do things such as saving his money, buying insurance product or invest it in order to have it grow so that the individual himself will have more resources to take care of his needs.
It is entirely possible that some people will fall through the cracks within that system, but this cannot be held against the system because there is NO system under which all people live perfectly all the time. We can only evaluate things on a comparative basis by taking into account as much variables as possible. Your OP only took into account the fact that you needed a check from the government and that, under a libertarian society, the check wouldn't come from the government and that therefore there would be no check. This is simply wrong.
>>70448672
How can you be so historically ignorant of the situation in Europe during the industrial revolution of mass poverty, terrible working conditions, children of the age of 5 already working in factories, people dieing in the 30's and 40s because of all the shit they've inhaled in the coal mines and the fumes form the factories, and all the mass poverty on the street.
All of the above lead to people like Marx writing shit like das kapital and communist manifesto, so classical liberalism / libertarianism even created communism.
>>70444444
a succinct point ruined by quints. good job faggot.
>>70444444
>So you want to violate my right to keep the
produce of my labour
But ypur labour is not independent. You use the roads we payed to transport your goods. Use our beaurocracy to reach other companies, use our banking system to finance yourself, use our education to have qualified workers. I am happy that you be sucessfull, but all we want is that you give back something back to society
>>70444501
And what if his sickness is paraphlegic?
>>70449000
>during the industrial revolution of mass poverty
Remind me of how good it was before that.
The industrial revolution was the greatest period of human progress in history, would you rather it hadn't happened?
>>70448816
Capitalism is not a synonym for libertarianism or free market, look up the definition of capitalism. Henry Ford advocated welfare capitalism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_capitalism
>Explain
corruption, human greed, people who strive power and control over others. Some will inevitably find flaws in the system and climb upwards and will mis-use his power to prevent others from reaching his position (i.e. monopolies etc.) He'll make deals with folks in the government with lots of money because the people in the government are also prone to corruption.
>>70448042
Because the whole point of of an oligarchy is to raise prices above what they would normally be under a free market situation. But as soon as price are artificially maintained above free market value you create incentive for other player to get into the game in order to take advantage of those higher prices.
Since we are operating under the hypothesis that this is a libertarian society, other companies can do nothing to prevent another player from entering into the market, or to prevent another company from breaking the price control of the oligarchy in order to take away customers from the oligarch.
Suppose for instance that there was oligarchic price control within the airline industry. Suppose now that you were a private pension fund with a venture capital branch looking to make a profit and that you determined that there was indeed an oligarchic situation within that particular industry. You could, very reasonably, pool your resources in order to buy the asset of some other airline in order to start selling ticket for a price which would be lower than what the oligarch offered and therefore out compete them and get their customers.
Or perhaps you are an international airline company operating in other country and looking to expand. You see the situation in some other country and you decide to kill these oligarchic companies by doing something similar to what I have just described. Nothing prevents you from doing this since we are operating on the basis that the government cannot use force to stop you.
>>70449275
I agree that the Industrial period lead to many great things, but we shouldn't repeat the mistakes we made during that time.
>>70449169
I never signed up to that contract. If I throw an apple through your window, do I have a right to come into your house and steal the money for it?
>>70444648
I'm just like you. They are doing exactly the same thing in my country, but the thing is we do not have refugges. We do not know where the money is going. After all we do, it0s going to the fucking banks
>>70442504
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcUZrDX5P7A
THREAD THEME
>>70449366
>Repeat the mistakes
You'd rather repeat the mistakes we made before the industrial revolution then? ie submitting to government authority. The reason marxism rose out of the industrial revolution is because we'd never had it so good. The power hungry (statists) had to come up with a new ideology that blamed le evil capitalists for society's problems.
>>70449241
Charity.
The Church used to run a lot of it, but I could see volunteer organizations do it too.
But I don't see how not having the use of your legs is different than illness or a birth defect.
Paraplegics are useful today, so it's even less of a problem than chronic illness.
>>70442504
It's really not difficult, you can get a loan to pay for the hospital services and pay it back when you're healthy, but if you're going to be a drain on society such that no one is willing to let you live, you can't steal from them just for your own selfish needs.
>>70447268
it's her jew genes
How does libertarianism prevent a corporate business owner from buying a few politicians with lots of money, in his favour, so they will give him a monopoly? You can't prevent that because man is prone to corruption. Adam Smith would have even approved the government people accepting the bribes because according to him self-interest is above everything.
>>70445526
>Do you think before socialized welfare people just died on the streets?
Yes
>social contract
libertarians will eternally be BTFO by this simple, fundamental principle of civilization
>>70449657
>How does libertarianism prevent a corporate business owner from buying a few politicians with lots of money, in his favour, so they will give him a monopoly?
The same thing can be said of a non libertarian system and, in point of fact, you are currently describing the birth of a non libertarian system. In other words, you question is : "Under a libertarian system, is it not possible for private companies to destroy the libertarian system?"
The answer is yes. But the fact of the matter is that it is possible to destroy any and all systems.
>>70449657
Anarcho-capitalism.
Either that, or a constitutional republic that does not permit politicians to regulate (ie thwart competition to allow monopolies to arise)
Also reminder that this is already a problem in a welfare state, with the further addition of politicians bribing voters with welfare (Bernie)
>>70449380
>muh contracts
I swear, you fucking libtards are autistic as hell. Did you spout that contract line when your parents asked you to do a chore or two around the house?
>inb4 yes
Society works by demanding things of you and giving you the right to demand things from it in return. There's no contract because that would be fucking retarded and not how it works at all, you stupid fucking Britcuck.
>>70449351
wow that sounds awfully naive, you do know corporations literally kill people for money? from selling soda to bullshit wars for oil, what makes you think they wouldn't do the same and to a harsher extent with even less regulations to maximize their profits?
>>70449657
TERM LIMITS
FOR ALL Elected officials.
>>70447235
>The world doesn't revolve around you and your feelings of entitlement you insufferable nigger faggot
But his opinions revolve around his fellings. You will grow up buddy
>>70449808
Contract:
A voluntary, deliberate, conscious and legally binding agreement between two or more competent parties
This "social contract" is neither, voluntary nor conscious. Therefore it is not a contract, more a propagandist's misnomer.
>The characteristic mark of this age of dictators, wars and revolutions is its anti-capitalistic bias. Most governments and political parties are eager to restrict the sphere of private initiative and free enterprise. It is an almost unchallenged dogma that capitalism is done for and that the coming of all-round regimentation of economic activities is both inescapable and highly desirable.
>>70449000
obviously you didn't notice that I just used your exact quote on both your statements.
The population of europe was skyrocketing during the industrial revolution. so on the whole it seemed to be doing just fine.
>>70450027
That was an ad-hominem filled response that didn't provide any rebuttal. Try again.
>>70449380
>I never signed up to that contract.
You were born in it. If you don't like it, stop using roads, internet, schools. But i don't see you complaining about it? You guys want to have the perks of 1st world life withput paying for it
>>70450027
>Society works by demanding things of you and giving you the right to demand things from it in return
This is not how everything works to be sure. I have no right to demand anything of anybody and in point of fact I cannot enter into a Best Buy or a grocery store asserting my right to some of their products.
What you are describing is an external imposition brought upon people by the government under the guise of benevolent social engineering. But the fact that this is how it is today does not at all mean that you could not enact another kind of system.
>>70450177
Once again, we see the individualist retard who thinks that every single fucking relationship should be voluntary and that nobody should ever get to make a single demand of him, lest he be inconvenienced in some way.
lrn2society, fag
>>70449965
Explain to me how an 'anarcho capitalist' society could even exist in this world with so many people, and don't tell me how it can work in theory but in real life, because I've heard enough so called great ideologies in theory
A constitutional republic cannot prevent business owners from buying politicians.
The politicians may not be able to change the constitution, but that doesn't mean they can't change the system in favour of the business owner. The business owner will simply buy lots of lobbyists to get his way.
Heck, the business owner might become so rich, that he'll buy all the politicians, and hire hitmans to kill the politicians he doesn't like.
Maybe buy a private army in the meantime.
Once he got rid of all the opposition, he'll simply do what he like. Crone himself king or something.
>>70449599
So trowing a few crubs is your ideal replacement? How much charity have you done this past year? And your neighboors? Most people would rather buy a new purse or 4chan gold pass
>>70450365
Why shouldn't every single relationship be voluntary? Should you be tied to an abusive father because of filial piety?
Voluntary relationships sound like an idea worth striving for.
>>70449657
Checks and balances, self-regulating laws
>>70450254
Just because a population is growing doesn't mean its doing fine. Look at fucking Liberia, Nigera and Congo for fuck sake.
>>70449657
>How does libertarianism prevent a corporate business owner from buying a few politicians with lots of money, in his favour, so they will give him a monopoly?
The thing is, they don't have to buy
>>70450314
>You were born in it
So we can choose to sign up the unborn into contracts? What a dangerous and wholly immoral precedent.
> stop using roads, internet, schools
>You guys want to have the perks of 1st world life withput paying for it
Those things exist independent of government, so your argument is invalid. You would have to pay for them in a free market, but considerably less thanks to free market efficiency and the absence of a state-monopoly.
>>70450050
>wow that sounds awfully naive, you do know corporations literally kill people for money?
What is it exactly that makes you believe that a company will care enough about money to kill people over it (which, I might point out, is still a crime in a libertarian society) but not care enough about money to break up an oligarchy?
>>70449796
so educate yourself
the Church fulfilled the role of welfare in the 12th and 13th century
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Hospitaller
the order was created from that practice
Yes, the 20th century was not some incredible social revolution, in fact it's not much different except for the entity of the state being much more powerful
>>70450314
>be forced to pay for something
>surprised people use what they are forced to pay for
>use that as some sort of proof that people want said forced products
>>70450495
If my friends around me need me I help them.
As for welfare, well the state has the monopoly on that right now.
>>70450554
OK. the GDP per capita was also growing very fast during that period in Europe.
>>70449965
We are living in constitutional republics you retard. Most of the west has been living since the 19th century
>>70449891
Than if a libertarian system inevitably destroys itself, then why do you and so many support it?
Just like communism, it's great in theory, sucks in real life.
>>70445378
*worships allah before prepping bull*
>>70450508
Of course you shouldn't be tied to an abusive father because of filial piety. But filial piety should tie you to a virtuous father, especially if you're a child who needs to be taken care of.
Now, and here's the kicker... we all need to be taken care of sometimes. If we don't recognise that, we're seriously no better than niggers.
>>70442504
>However, I would not be able to survive without my government help.
So why exactly do you not have a family, friends or a community who would help you out?
There is quite a bit of evidence that it's because of statism and this societal decay will continue in the absence of voluntarism.
>>70450933
In other words, you agree that all relationships should be voluntary.
>>70442504
>I used to be a classical liberal, i.e. libertarian,
>Then I got really sick, that I had to get treatment.
Libertarians are literally this stupid. Literally incapable of thinking from other people's point of view.
I bet if you got rich again you'd switch back to being libertarian.
>>70450434
>A constitutional republic cannot prevent business owners from buying politicians.
No system can. If a particular flaw is common to all systems then it may not be held against any particular one.
Libertarianism is furthermore specifically opposed to government intervention and favoritism in the business sphere, whereas other system prescribe such interventionism.
What this, in effect, means is that it is much harder under a system other than libertarianism to detect those instances in which a politician is being bought off. Indeed, since we expect, under such a system, for the government to intervene, we may never know if it just so happen to do so because of the "general interests" or because of the work of some lobbyist behind the scene, so that the kind of business influence over government is much more likely to happen with an interventionist state compared to a libertarian one.
In fact, the interventionist state all but guarantee that such business influence will happen, since you have already announced to all of them that the government can act in such a way that it may dramatically affect their commercial prospect. It is only when the government has a great degree of power that said power can be bought off.
The libertarian approach specifically seeks to reduce the power of government so that it is easier for the citizens to understand and so that the benefit of corrupting it are small, since there isn't much it can do.
>>70450434
Discussing something that is not currently occurring means it will be inevitably theoretical. Therefore, you have moved the goalposts.
Everything you're saying is wholly theoretical.
>I've heard enough so called great ideologies in theory
Statism is a great ideology but has led to the deaths of billions and the violation of the natural rights of billions more throughout history.
>>70450882
>comparing libertarianism to communism ever
>not completely on the other side of the spectrum
>commits the argument to moderation fallacy
>>70450963
>So why exactly do you not have a family, friends or a community who would help you out?
>just get a $1 million loan from your dad
ever heard of orphans. you privileged piece of shit?
>>70451202
It's on the same side of the spectrum in terms of retardedness.
>>70450963
We don't live in collective agrarian societies anymore where everybody knows eachother and everyone takes care of each other and families live together their whole life OK.
And for the third fucking time, my mother has Alzheimers and my father died of asbestos cancer. I have a brother but he doesn't want to take care of me because he has a family of his own to take care of and it's not nice to sit around your brothers house, his wife and his kids doing jackshit.
My friends would let me stay in their house for a week max before I'd get kicked out, then I'd have to hit the street if it wasn't for the government help. I can barely fucking walk for christ sake, and my balance is all fucked up. I can't even take a normal job. And as I said, I am trying to find ways to make money online with websites and stuff so I can stop the welfare, but that'll take atleast a few months.
>>70450616
>So we can choose to sign up the unborn into contracts? What a dangerous and wholly immoral precedent.
In western social contract, kids normally don't have responsabilities, but enjoy the protection. Once they are adult, they are free to rescind the social contract, by immigrating. Yes, unborns are signed in this contract
>Those things exist independent of government
wat? Roads in large sscale were pretty much always built by government. Roads made by privates are pretty much shepperd tracks, lol.
Internet was a Gov project.
Schools i can give you, but i think you studied in a public school
>>70450882
>Than if a libertarian system inevitably destroys itself, then why do you and so many support it?
I did not say that it did inevitably destroy itself. What I said was that, under any system, be it communism, monarchism, fascism and libertarianism, people could, if they put their mind to it, try to undermine that system.
Considering the fact that any system is susceptible of being overthrown, this "flaw" is not specific to libertarianism and therefore cannot be held against it or, if it is, it must also be held against all other systems. The thesis that the libertarian system INEVITABLY destroys itself is one I disagree with.
>>70451256
>MUH PRIVILEGE
>>70450857
>you retard
I've noticed a pattern of socialists bringing out vicious ad-hominems whenever their collectivist ideology is confronted with rationale.
Our constitutional democracies allow for a large degree of majority rule, and are filled with corporate corruption.
>>70450882
>Just like communism, it's great in theory, sucks in real life.
You've already said Libertarianism has never been tried. Yet more hypocrisy. It's purely theoretical, and you've just said it's a great theory. So many contradictions.
Remember that Welfare statism is ideologically similar to communism
>>70451414
Like I said, I was a libertarian, because I thought its great, but now I found out its great in theory, and not in real life.
>>70451515
How could you be so retarded to think it's great? Did you really not once think about what it would be like if someone got sick under libertarian? Are you that retarded?
>>70451111
No. Your relationship to a virtuous society and its government should not be voluntary.
Aristotelian politics is back, yo.
>>70451312
you're putting a hypothetical situation into your practical context
the reason you wouldn't sit around your brothers' or friends' house is because they're already paying the state to take care of your sorry ass
>>70451111
Nice quads, by the way.
>>70451515
You're just failing to see alternative possibilities and then declare they don't exist.
>>70450731
Yes, i know about hospitals created by church. But still it was a very limited thing.
>>70450817
Yeah, if my friend wants a cigarete and i have i give him.
>As for welfare, well the state has the monopoly on that right now.
I wonder why
>>70451633
When I was healthy I didn't think about other people suffering, because my mind was positive and entrepreneurial, ready to take on the world. Now reality hit me hard and I do think about others. This is why their "charity" argument sucks.
>>70451320
>free to rescind the social contract, by immigrating
Loving the mental gymnastics. Forcing me to leave my country is a violation of my rights. Accept that the social contract is not a contract in any sense of the definition.
Again, I hope you don't resist if I sign up your unborn child to a contract legally binding him to me.
Consumers would demand roads, therefore the market would provide them.
>internet was a govt project
Not an argument.
>Schools i can give you, but i think you studied in a public school
I was privately educated, but if I had been to a public school why would it matter?
>>70451202
But communism and libertarianism are very similar. Both are anarchist
>>70451312
>My friends would let me stay in their house for a week max
You have shit friends then. We had a family friend stay at our house for over 2 years while she got herself back on her feet after her divorce.
Also charities would help you out. it isn't just government that helps the poor.
>i can barely fucking walk
holy shit you have nothing at all to complain about. an office job requires basically no movement at all. All you have to do is get to the office and leave.
>>70451312
Do you mind me asking what you have?
>>70451515
>and not in real life.
It hasn't manifested in real life, so you can't have "found out" anything. Perhaps you were hallucinating? What we can find out in real life is that statism is terrible. Genocides of Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, (the list is endless) bring anything to mind?
>>70451789
>When I was healthy I didn't think about other people suffering
You are perhaps the stupidest person I have ever seen on /pol/. And that's no small achievement.
Now that you are sick you are probably unable to sympathise with people who are healthy.
>>70451735
>Yes, i know about hospitals created by church. But still it was a very limited thing.
But what makes you believe that the situation that was prevailing in 1910 concerning hospitals would somehow prevail today were we to be in a freer market?
I always have this impression that when people think of the free market, they believe that suddenly everything would become black and white, that they would see children on the side of street smoking pipes, wearing caps, and waiting for their turn to go on the assembly lines. Everybody would go back to driving model-T fords and the fight against the railroad tycoon would be back on. I'd get out on the street and I would hear "EXTRA, EXTRA, extraordinary invention by amazing scientist Thomas Edison!"
>>70451735
>But still it was a very limited thing.
it really wasn't, most parishes had them
Of course you had poverty, like you have today in less rich areas.
>>70451735
>I wonder why
because they put laws into action to take away power from the church
the state has always fought for monopoly on anything and by having a monopoly on welfare they take power away from the church and gain the less fortunate's approval
The only reason for welfare today is to buy votes.
>>70451913
>Communism is anarchistic
Can I ask, are you just baiting now? Honest question
>>70451515
>And not in real life
Libertarianism is only bad in practice if your a lazy pile of shit.
Any type of drive, ambition, or love for your society and it is indeed great ideology.
>>70445146
WHY would libertarians put a man on the moon?
how would a libertarian society deal with a poor, single parent household with a mentally deficient child who needs constant medical and parental care? the single parent only earns enough for rent and food so how would they purchase the much needed care for their child?
>>70451312
I'm sure it's as multi-sided as you make it seem because we have 1 out of the dozen people's side of the argument. Typical statists are selfish like that - they don't care how much work they leech off of others, they think they are special and have a right to not die.
>>70452007
multiple sclerosis, it's been going downhill fast, never knew I had it until this year
>>70451867
>my country~
I thought libertariansim was borderless. You can escape responsiblities by going innawoods.
>Accept that the social contract is not a contract in any sense of the definition.
It's not a contract in legal sense of contract Any non-retard can see that
>Consumers would demand roads, therefore the market would provide them.
You would have to pay a tool?
> I hope you don't resist if I sign up your unborn child to a contract legally binding him to me.
False equivalence mate. Hope you grow up mate. and i definetely hope something doesn't happen to you like it happened to the dutch bro.
>>70452228
we wouldn't.
they'd figure it out or die.
>>70452228
People fall through the cracks in every society. It's not a big deal in the greater scheme of things.
>>70451320
Two words: crowding out
>>70452172
to mine helium-3
>>70452310
>I thought libertariansim was borderless
lolno
this is no requirement
you're talking about ultra-libertarianism or an-cap
>>70452017
I agree, I was a fucking cunt
No, I am have nothing against healthy people
I'm trying to make it right with the God at the moment
>>70452228
For a start they would have more money because they would not be taxed/lowly taxed and products and services like rent and food would be not taxed/lowly taxed so they would have more money.
Due to low/no tax people donate more to charity (proven) which can provide healthcare far more efficiently than a government monopoly.
>>70442504
>I used to be a classical liberal, ie, Libertarian
Then you werent a classical liberal.
>>70452470
>I was a fucking cunt
Again, irrational non-arguments against libertarian ism. You can't just invalidate something by swearing or saying it's selfish.
>>70451913
>t-trust me people don't need to be forced to do irrational trades
ignorant post of the thread
>>70452470
Maybe make up for your retardedness by explaining to other libertarians why they are retarded.
And maybe try to stop being such a drain on society while you're at it.
>>70452103
>Of course you had poverty, like you have today in less rich areas.
you can't compare poverty you had back then to today. My grandfathers lived in a world closer to middle ages (40's and 50's Portugal). Charity keept multiple people from starving, it's true. But in the end it was just crumbs.
>because they put laws into action to take away po...
Because welfare is not profitable you retard
>>70452112
Read the first paragraph in wiki. God...
>>70452470
Perhaps statists are the true selfish people since they demand the right to take other people's money by force to pay for what they think is right.
>>70442504
Look at that hoary old butthurt jewess. God she was fucking ugly.
>>70442504
You think invalids were just left to die before the welfare state? People used to have communities where people would VOLUNTARILY help out their fellow man. The benefit of this of course was the community could discern those who were deserving of aid from those who were just looking for handouts. The government looks at both cases the same.
>>70452303
Sorry bro. I don't like libertarians, but i would never wish something like that to one. I think you have no chance to get better, no? I hope you figure out something, bro.
>>70452310
liberty is ensured by mutual and voluntary cooperation to prevent a geographically, culturally, and racially self interested group of people from being harmed by another group.
a libertarian society would have a government, but it would be almost entirely military. in fact, the military may be the only branch of a libertarian government.
and libertaryanism is not against "ALL" taxation. only taxation that benefits some more than others. because ALL, meaning every single last person, benefits from the collective defense and justice force, it is not a breach of anyones rights or freedom to collect a simple, flat tax to pay for it. and if someone did not wish to pay, they would be infringing on others by being protected by other peoples effort and not contributing, wouldn't they?
libertarianism is not extreme as you might think. most of the super extreme ideas are just memes and slurs.
it's an acknowledgement that the government is primarily a parasite with only the governments interest in mind. its an acknowledgement that the government ruins everything it touches. and its an acknowledgement that rationally and morally, man has rights that are derived from his very nature, and without which he can not survive, and that mans life must be the standard of our values - because by whatever name any other standard is just a slower or quicker march towards death.
>>70452463
>>to mine helium-3
there you have. who knew you could MAKE money going to the moon?
why are libertarians so deluded to believe every aspect of society is profitable and every person is equally capable and born with the same resources?
>>70452686
>Because welfare is not profitable you retard
fine, it seems you're obviously retarded
have a nice day
how many stories have you heard of communities raising millions of dollars for someone who got sick or something?
People can do things without the government being involved.
>>70452686
Use of a word in wikipedia isn't a rational argument. Please explain how communist countries are anarchistic. Just because marxist doctrine supposes that an anarchist society would come out of communism does not make communism inherently anarchist.
EVERY single communist country has proven to be the exact OPPOSITE of anarchy.
>>70452894
they're not.
equal results in life not guaranteed. too fucking bad, kill yourself if your life sucks. deal with it etc.
>>70442504
I used to be a hardcore libertarian but then like you I also got sick. Now I've softened my edge a bit. For instance I'm ok with welfare for people who are not able-bodied. And when it comes to people who are able-bodied I'm for welfare but only temporary welfare. The temporary welfare should be primarily for helping people without jobs get jobs. There can be food stamps and stuff too but again that should only be temporary.
>>70452644
??
>>70452711
You know it's my money too? I don0t mind to have a smaller car if that means my countrymen are not starving.
>>70452805
>People used to have communities where people would VOLUNTARILY help out their fellow man.
Only in poor countries. In rich countries people don't give a fuck and just buy health insurance. Can't afford health insurance? Well you're fucked then.
>>70452894
Everything that is useful IS marketable.
>believe every person is equally capable and born with the same resources
We don't. We just know that governments have a proven track record of failing to solve these problems rather making them worse, and would instead focus on eliminating the stifling of opportunity that governments create.
>>70453033
I suspect every libertarian is this retarded.
>>70445951
>Down Town
my fucking sides
>>70452837
>mutual and voluntary cooperation
How do you expect to protect yourselfs with a militia based on "mutual and voluntary cooperation", lol. Hieracrhy is vital to a army. Have fun working for the chinese.
>military
Draft? And tax collection, who would be responsible for it?
>governments interest in mind.
Gov is not a hivemind
i don't know what i am /pol/, i oppose all of this feminist thinking and general left ideology, but im a progressive and i think that there should be changes, is being a Centrist even a thing anymore?
>>70453048
So because you don't mind tax that means you have a right to impose it on others by force?
There were some slaves that didn't mind being slaves, does that morally justify slavery?
>>70445951
>Down Town
Lost.
Rare kek from a german.
>>70442504
Socialists who hate brown people. Owned by Zios. Don't give a shit about you
>>70452897
>how many stories have you heard of communities raising millions of dollars for someone who got sick or something?
Share one please.
>>70453232
Its not uncommon
We/they simply refuse/refused to believe it/not wanting to believe it
>>70453398
Yep. To date, I find libertarians to be about as dumb as feminists.
