Communism = LEFTIST
Fascism = LEFTIST
Libertarianism = RIGHT WING
CHRISTIANITY = LIBERTARIANISM
Got it?
Right and Left are political theories of describing differing roles for society. Right Wing societies are societies that wish to resist change, reduce change, or "make a country great again", i.e, take it back to a supposed mythic past.
Left wing societies seek to make change, basically the opposite. In the Western context, this means progressive, libertarian, and socialist ideologies are left wing because they seek to change the old world monarchical model of powerful elites and state capitalism.
>CHRISTIANITY = LIBERTARIANISM
In no way is this remotely possible. Christianity is an organized religion with an established liturgy and orthodoxy, that all adherents are constrained to obey, through direct obedience to go and to the rulers god has ordained to command their temporal lives.
That is the exact opposite of anything Libertarian.
>>69118703
How can anarchist be left wing when they want no gubment?
>>69119071
Overthrowing all government is the furthest to the left you can go.
>>69119071
Basically, if there's no concept of property at all then you have communism and anarchism at the same time.
How is fascism left wing?
>>69119040
>>69119071
the final stage of communism is a stateless society, Marx said so
>>69119470
>How is fascism left wing?
It's called national socialism. It's socialist.
>>69118703
fascism is literally synonymous with right wing.
why do you have to redefine words to win an argument?
>>69119071
because right is totalitarian and left is humanist
You have a misunderstanding of terminology.
Left = liberal/individual right and freedom
Right = authority for the state
So communism (as it has been implemented) is actually the furthest right you can go because it is absolute authority for the state and is a tyranny. The furthest left you can go is anarchy.
>>69118703
1: National Socialism
2: Fascist Monarchism
everything else can burn in hell.
yfw you question what mommy daddy taught you only to find out evil communists what to abolish the state, something you have championed for years.
>>69119705
>fascism is synonymous with right wing
according to leftists
>why do you have to redefine words to win an argument?
says the leftist
>>69119775
now you're just shitposting
>>69119705
Fascism is its own political spectrum.
>>69119552
Fascism is not socialism. Read the doctrine of fascism.
>>69119851
What is left and what is right?
>>69119775
communism is stateless so how can it give authority to the state? read a book dont just parrot mom and dad and teacher.
>>69119909
Fascism is socialism.
>>69119916
He is talking of real Communism not the fantasy one.
>>69119851
i dont make up the definitions of words sorry you get booty blasted when "thou shalt not marry a person that doesnt meet my snowflake criteria" is not considered libertarian of freedom loving. it is theocratic dictatorial totalitarianism that you believe in.
>>69119775
>liberals believe this shit
>>69119916
And anyways Marxism is authoritarian and anti peoples will in its purist form.
>>69119909
national socialism = fascism = socialism = leftism
what is there really to discuss?
the name says socialism, and everyone knows nazis were fascists
>>69119916
>read a book
cite the book i should read then. I'm listening to Rush Limbo talk about it right now, everyone knows this is true.
>>69119851
Left = liberty and right = authority of the state. It may not mean that now but that is the original meaning and the original right/left debate. Communism is right wing and libertarianism is left wing. 99% of people just don't know what right and left actually mean so they are both constantly misused.
>>69119980
ITT: redefining words to suit poor arguments better
>>69118703
Yeah, that's a pretty shitty chart you got there OP
>>69120001
Freedom to me is the will being able to be carried out, what you say is slavery.
Right wing is nationalist, less reliance on foreign investors, less social programs for minorities such as green cards, welfare, autism paycheck etc.
Fascism is right wing, the reason some define fascism as socialism is because money had no value in Germany, so Hitler had installed basically food stamps. I'm rusty on the specifics but he made his own currency in exchange for work and food.
In reality he had the perfect totalitarian regime
>>69119916
You must have missed the part where I said "as it has been implemented"
>>69120001
why would you get so upset about semantics?
are you some kind of pedagogue?
some kind of pedo.
gog.
ZOG
HOLYSHIT
>>69120032
if the people own the means to production how will this be counter to their will?
bluepilled much?
>>69120088
so you redefined the word freedom now. cute.
>>69118703
Communism = Judaism
its well known Mr Bolshevik
>>69120111
Why would Hitlers Germany belong with any rights or lefts?
fundamental differences, Germany landed in the political spectural of Nationalist, the interest of the nation is supreme over the individual, with supreme nationalism comes supreme individuals.
>>69120031
I'm not a liberal, I am just giving the original definition of the left / right debate. The words have changed meaning quite a bit over the years.
>>69120177
>people owning anything in a socialist state
Straight from reddit, I love these guys.
>>69120134
im sure china would be really great if there was 1.4 billion special snowflakes trying to shoot each other like redneck alabama
day 53, they still can't tell when I'm funposting
>>69120282
>communism
>socialist state
poor reading comprehension. let me guess you love trump who has no real political ideas.
It's very sad we've gotten to the point where something or other has changed how we define such a simple spectrum.
For political definitions, right-wing means less governing power over the economy, while left-wing means more power the government has over the economy. This regards ownership of property, paying wages, providing work, and maintaining prices.
It has now been all mixed up with some sort of new-age philosophical social spectrum of "left vs right", which can be generalized as "progressive" (modern "liberl / left wing") and "conservative" (more traditional moral standpoints in regards to social issues.
Left and right wing should have nothing to do with philosophical opinions or metaphysics. It has never traditionally meant such, and it's quite odd and most likely artificially caused.
Fascism is known as the Third Position. It's neither left nor right.
I believe the right-left wing system was first adopted in France to describe the monarchists (right) and the liberal democrats (left). Then Marxism came along and became the new left, leaving liberalism in the centre, and finally, with the effective death of monarchism in the Western world, liberalism has now ended up as the the new right-wing.
Note that I'm using "liberalism" in the European (proper) sense, not the stupid American sense.
Fascism is NOT socialism. In socialism the people make up the state and is collectivist, in fascism the state is independent of the people.
>>69118703
Agree.
>>69120354
why do you feel the need to redefine words
right wing means totolitarian
left wing does not mean blanket term for that thing i dont like.
>>69120286
What in the world are you even talking about, what does that have to do with me post?
>>69118703
Autism = OP
>Organized religion = freedom
>>69120059
How can you be so fucking retarded?
>>69118703
That pic is so fucking wrong in so many ways
>>69120351
Ha. Large government that controls, it's all the same ending. Let me guess, Kapital really spoke to you didn't it.
To me, leftism has always meant non-traditional, while right-wing has always meant traditional. Left-wing always looks at ways to stray away from tradition, whether it's in the form of government or social values, while the right-wing would rather maintain traditional government and social values.
>>69119212
Stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. Leftist always want more and more government, they think they should run every aspect of peoples' lives.
>>69120177
The people can't carry out their will, they are chained by Marxism, you even say that the peoples will is false, Marxists are a bourgeois enemy of the peoples class.
FASCISTS OF THE WORLD MOBILIZE WORK AND UNITE AGAINST THE INTERNATIONAL CAPITALISTS THE BOURGUISE SOCIAL DEMOCRATS, THE INTERNATIONAL BOLSHEVIKS, THE OPPRESSORS AND THE JEWS!!
THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE SHALL NOT BE RESTRAINED REGARDLESS OF THE OPINION OF ANOTHER!!! FASCISTS WILL BE FREE FROM OUR OPPRESSION!
RACE AND NATION!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IW3QclAL1c
http://poal.me/k6hteq
>>69118703
>Mixing political systems with religions and economic systems
>>69118703
isn't fascism applicable to both left and right wing politics?
>>69120209
So freedom is things being said but you not being able to carry out things?
>left: good people
>right: racists
not that hard tbqh famalam
>>69120423
I never at any time indicated and opinion of mine in the post in regards to the political spectrum. There is no redefinition; merely clarity. This is how the spectrum has always been defined.
But, the modern definition of "liberal" is not the same as it once was. This is a matter of fact.
The left vs right spectrum also never used to retain social issues. Bi-partisanship has slowly detonated a split in ideologies.
>>69118703
fuck off casual
>>69120390
Fascism is socialism, Marxism and workers communions isn't socialism.
>>69118703
It's pointless to map a 2-d plane onto a line. There's no way to settle it. It's arbitrary.
>>69120545
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
The right is right, the left is wrong :^)
>>69120629
Well considering everyone in this thread seems to have a different definition of left and right, that's a hard one to answer. Depends on what you view as left and right.
>>69119470
>creates public companies like Fiat/Volkswaggen/Seat
>creates a bunch of swamps in order to give people employment (which was a disaster but...)
>borders closed to foreign workers (as with different sized railways)
>people has no freedom to choose what they want to have, it's like a comunist system
I would call that left-winged
>>69118703
How is Anarchism far left?
I never understood that. I'd think that since Anarchy is about no government/rules to abide by, it shouldn't be in a "wing" because government shouldn't exist.
>>69120111
Nazi Germany had socialized healthcare, anti-smoking laws, birth control and a number of other leftist dreams. Looks like a duck, ...
>>69119491
when has it actually happened though?
>>69118703
this cucks list is garbage. disregard the homo OP.
right wing religion is the church of the whitey.
BLESSING OF THE WHITE LORD BE UPON YOU WHITE BROTHERS, AND ALSO WITH YOU, WE DONT SAY AMEN WE SAY A-WHITE-MEN.
THE FUHRER IS OUR LORD.
HE WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.
THE LORD THY TRUMP. IN HIS NAME WE EXTERMINATE MUSLIMS.
>>69120354
>For political definitions, right-wing means less governing power over the economy, while left-wing means more power the government has over the economy
Completely wrong.
"The political terms Left and Right were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution, including the creation of a republic and secularization, while those on the right were supportive of the traditional institutions of the Old Regime"
You're the one redefining terms.
EVERYONE IS LITERALLY HITLER!!1
THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR!
EMBRACE THE UNIVERSAL HITLER!
>>69120784
freedom is will being carried out, Fascists are objectively the most free as there is only one will that supersedes all others, the will for the nation.
>>69119909
Are you retarded? An state controlling the industry and people's properties is called comunism, and it is
L
E
F
T
>>69118703
Believing in religion meme. Religion is a mere construct to make us behave like they want us to behave until they don't need us to do so anymore. Some smart kids realized that in the early stages of civilization and changed islam to be aggresive and leanding towards expansion. And christianity on the other hand be the a lamb who suffers and tolerates (If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also.) etc. This creates an antagonism which is prone to create wars for eternity (like is very much has). While the smart ones just use judaism as a third almost calm factor when they need to. These smart people took charge of all the stuff that really matters while the other ones kept bashing their heads in. Christianity and Islam rival themselves both in numbers and territory, while the other 3 big religions (Hinduism, Chinese folk religion, Buddhism) are nearly in as great in numbers, they don't come close to the territorial expansion. So basically the world dances to the music they play. If you need religion to live by moral/ethic values you're retard.
>>69118703
Y'all niggas need Jerry Pournelle's two-axis political spectrum.
>>69120939
If there is only one will that is not freedom, not at all.
>>69120949
The state having control over industries and distribution of wealth is Socialism, not Communism which is Marxist theory.
Yes Soviet Union was borderline anarchist
HE WARNED US
>>69119405
The CONCEPT is based upon human perception so as long as one person with it then it exits.
>>69118703
why didnt you stupid fucks vote ron paul in when you had the chance? he was literally your last hope. now you have donald "controlled opposition puppet, the illusion of choice" trump.
>>69120949
Collectivism =/= leftism
This thread is pathetic, filled with morons who've fallen for the left-right meme squabbling over the arbitrary placement of political definitions on an outdated and reductionist spectrum.
>>69121071
Ok I am not an specialist so I suppose you are right on that, but this keeps being left-winged.
>>69121050
There is ultimate freedom, One Will, One Interest, One Nation, One Führer!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BbYig3L5N0
WE COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS
>>69118703
>conservative
>left
>>69118703
>Christianity is libertarian
All my wat
>>69118703
Two totally different spectrums of governance.
Facism and communism being both totalitarianism.
Libertarianism and, you forgot, progressivism being monetary.
But don't mention progressivism nowadays ;^) I got you.
I made a thing so you can understand how this works.
In terms of social hierarchies:
communism < Christianity < libertarianism < fascism
And yes I'm using a leftist framework here but hey at least it is rational and self consistent, unlike most of the gibberish I see on /pol/.
>>69121129
Collectivism => leftism
THIS IS THE FUTURE WE CHOSE
>>69120914
If you are going to argue semantics and word origins, then the modern US Democratic party is still the party that support slavery. While the modern Republican party is still the party that supports expansion of the West and eventual freedom of the slaves.
You realize how retarded you sound when you refuse to accept that the definition of words can change and be accepted by the general public.
>HOW CAN YOU NOT HE'S LITERALLY HITLER
>>69121303
Fascists are Christians in fact Christianity is the absolute structure of Fascists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2fpgu8cr3M
>>69121263
Well Protestantism is in a lot of ways
>>69121086
Why does Hitler wear his hair like an emo?
>Christianity is libertarianism
JESUS WAS A SOCIALIST AND PACIFIST
HE LITERALLY SAID THAT RICH PEOPLE WILL ALL GO TO HELL
>>69121547
Nazis weren't the only fascist in history, just so you know.
>>69121547
That's debatable (both Hitler and Mussolini had problems with the Church) but irrelevant because not all Christians are Fascists.
>>69121571
Emo's wanted to be scary, so they chose LITERALLY HITLER MAN to emulate
>>69121552
In a limited form, but at least a hell of a lot more than the original Christianity.
>>69121325
So wrong. Maybe people choose to define it as that today, but look at the founders of the country and how they defined the left right debate. Leftism = liberalism = individual liberties aka libertarianism
I'm left. I enjoy shooting my guns freely on federal land.
>>69121641
Fascists are the only true Christians, everyone else is plagued with Satan's lies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StaPF5qqFDk
>>69121571
Punks (of which emos are subgenre) are leftists who wanted to appropriate the skinhead culture and emasculate it.
>>69118703
>total control by country is anarchism
>total freedom is not anarchism
American education.
HITLER IS LEFT-RIGHT CHIMERA MAN
LITERALLY SATAN ATHEIST JESUS MAN
EVERYTHING I CAN THINK OF MAN
>>69120914
I'm happy you know the origin of the phrases, but if you pay attention to how they colloquially developed, you'd understand my point. For over a hundred years now they've been set in stone how I stated them and all of a sudden since the 70s the terms completely lost rhetorical meaning.
And if you sincerely thought that by defining the terms so specifically and contextually you were refuting my point, then I strongly feel as though you did not understand the point I was conveying.
NAZINAZINAZINAZINAZI
COMMIECOMMIECOMMIE
>>69120065
The last time I checked I'm almost positive that the left wants more government then the right.
>>69118703
Fascism is a right wing ideology
>>69122369
>right
>left
None, Fascism is True wing.
>>69121824
The republican right are ssome of the most bilkpilled people on the planet.
>>69119040
Lol Christian liberty that's a good meme
>>69121280
Literally the same idea as OP.
>no right-authoritarian
>right and left defined as authoritarian and libertarian
>one dimensional axis on a two dimension graph
your spectrum is bullshit
>>69122527
>freedom
>no ability to ban shit
x axis = left-right
y axis = more gubmint/less gubmint
people who argue left right literally can't comprehend cartesian coordinates
>>69122323
But they want to give all the power to but business. Ultimately it will fall on them to provide programs to prevent the country from turning to shit. Right Wing politicians are vying for the scariest type of communism, corporatized
>>69122369
Fascism is dead.
RIP Mussolini.
>>69122417
Dann liberal dictionaries
>>69122649
>no right-wing authoritarianism
You can be right wing and still very far upwards.
You know, like 95% of American politicians are?
>>69118703
>anarchism
>slavery
u wot?
x = collectivism vs. individualism
y = government vs. none
Cartesian.
Coordinates.
(collectivist, free)
(collectivist, hierarchy)
(individualist, free)
(individualist, hierarchy)
>>69123230
No shit
>>69122995
Ironic that trump has quoted him
Pic related is the reason some people feel the need to assign everything to the imagined concepts of "left" or "right".
You can go round in circles arguing over the Nazis were left or right wing, you'll get nowhere because everyone can just cherry pick individual policies to support their argument. You can do the same thing with the communists in Russia. You can do the same thing with Republicans, Democrats, Bernie and Trump, and parties in Europe.
Politics isn't the simple, black and white subject it used to be. Everything has a lot of nuance to it, governments and power structures worldwide have become far more complex and diverse in their approaches. Left/Right spectra are redundant, simplistic models for the uneducated masses.
Don't fall for them.
>>69118703
>christianity
>libertarian
nigger what are you soing
>>69118703
OP is absolutely correct.
To all the underage retards here : you do realize that nazi is the short form of national-SOCIALISM, right? And Mussolini was a marxist throughout his life.
There are differences between fascism and communism of course, but they share the same core : the nullifying of individual rights and liberty in the name of the "common good".
The "fascism is right wing" meme was created by Stalinist propagandists to justify WW2.
>>69118703
You couldnt be any more ignorant. Please feel free to explain how communism and facism are not authoritarian. Tell me about liberalism too, how do you plan to force people into aborting fetuses, and baking fag cakes? Oh right, the states authority.
Leftism is anarchy yes, but the farthest right is Tyranny.
Is ron paul tyranny? No.
Fucking kill yourself and stop ruining the politcal landscape by spreading ignorant garbage.
>>69123330
mussolini was quoting an australian nurse
>boy i'm thirsty
here have some water
>gee thanks, gulp gulp
haha, faggot! Mussolini drank water too, you're a fascist, nigger! Got you!
>>69123436
Not sure if bait.
>>69123440
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1tUFx_StSo
>>69123298
So I'm sure you understand why the post of yours I responded to was retarded as fuck. Good talking with you.
>>69123543
Not bait.
Read something else than reddit, you fucking newfag.
>>69123298
>(collectivist, free)
How the fuck can a collectivistic society be free you humongous faggot?
>>69123330
Trump is international not national.
USA is made from international people.
Fascism isn't what you think it is. Behaving arrogantly is just behaving arrogantly, having pride is having pride. Being racist is being racist. Wanting to secure borders is wanting to secure borders.
>>69123647
>How the fuck can a collectivistic society be free
hunter gatherers, genius
non-aggression principle hippy collectives, feegoot
>anarchism and fascism are on the same side
They're literally opposites. The left-right spectrum doesn't accurately explain anything outside US politics.
>>69118703
>Fascism = LEFTIST
>CHRISTIANITY = LIBERTARIANISM
kek
Fascism is hierarchical by principle and Christianity is quasi-communal
>>69123595
7/10.
>>69123746
>hunter gatherers, genius
Hunter gatherers aren't free, genius. They get killed and eaten if they stray too far from their place in society.
>>69123803
I know your niggerpaki brain is boggled by simple facts, but I'm truly not baiting.
>Constitutional Republicanism being to the right of Monarchy
OP please
>>69123230
What the shit? Who made this, the owner of politicalcompass.org? Its placement of candidates is fucking retarded, particularly with libertarian candidates. Look at all of the democrats who are lower than Rand Paul, the socialists lower than Ron Paul, and Gary Johnson on the centre.
>>69123844
>Hunter gatherers aren't free
THEY SURE AS FUCK AREN'T OPPRESSED BY A COERCIVE STATE WITH A POLICE FORCE EITHER
WWOOOOOOOOOOO
>>69123844
>>69123746
Also, I'd like to add that I'm talking about civilized societies here. Not a bunch of naked savages in the bush or a bunch of degenerate hippies wasting their dad's allowance on drugs.
How can a civilized first world industrialized country be collectivistic and free at the same time?
>>69118703
Lrn2PoliticalCompass, stupid
>>69123970
Right. They haven't reach the evolutionary stage yet required to develop a state.
>>69123230
True spectrum.
>>69123976
>reminds me primitive niggers can still die, so they aren't "free"
>reminds me my example isn't convenient to his rubric of state-only societies
fuck off froggy pleb
>Christianity
>Freedom
>>69124115
>reminds me my example isn't convenient to his rubric of state-only societies
Yes, how problematic of me. I'm truly a civilization-centric bigot. Triggered?
Get gassed.
>>69123885
Okay, I'll take your word for it, but that makes you very stupid.
Everyone on /pol/ knows Nazism is National Socialism. But most people here are also intelligent enough to not conflate Nazism with Socialism based on semantics. Are Liberals the same as Classical Liberals? Are European Conservatives actually conservative?
You're not even intelligent enough for /pol/, and that's saying something.
>>69123543
>>69123803
Unfortunately the baguette is right about this one, fellow Brit
Political philosophy is obviously complex and there's room for nuance, but nazi-ism shares much in common with modern left-wing thought and communism including extensive social welfare programs
There was a book written shortly after ww2 called the origins of totalitarianism that deals with this
>>69124218
>But most people here are also intelligent enough to not conflate Nazism with Socialism based on semantics.
Except Socialism and Naziism are similar in more ways than pure semantics you cock gobbling goblin.
>Are Liberals the same as Classical Liberals?
Completely different. Liberal used to mean what is now called "classic liberal" until the term liberal was appropriated by marxists in the 1960s. Which is why people are forced to put "classic" in front of the word in order to refer to its true, original meaning.
>Are European Conservatives actually conservative?
Well yeah?
>You're not even intelligent enough for /pol/,
Says the guy who thinks naziism is right wing because his high school teacher told him so. You're so fucking moronic and historically illiterate that it makes me ashamed that I have to stoop down to your level of intellectual mediocrity.
Kill yourself.
Hitler would be all the way to the north left of this spectrum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0LQgXclado
>>69124218
It all depends what laws your country has and if you are independent.
World didn't work back then as it is now and we aren't independent. Not even if you leave EU will you be independent, since world is globally connected. Capitalism or the this thing we associate with free trade right wing parties and private ownership didn't even exist in Hitler/Mussolini times.
>>69119040
>left wing seeks change
>left and right is relative
Retarded for multiple reasons, principally of which is that the status quo could be (however impossible it is to fathom) [communist] and that would make any change leftist and [communism] on the right.
It's retarded
The closest objective measure of left/right distinctions are degrees of state control.
You could even frame it like you want it to be except the definition would be more like:
"The degree to which the state should facilitate changes in society" or something.
Because particular state influences are not mutually exclusive with types of social ideology, social ideology shouldn't be considered in the spectrum, and should be seperate. My argument would that they should be conservative and liberal, since those are relative, and social dynamics are always relative to the time period
So left would be:
Facism
Socialism
Dictatorships
Corporatism
Communism*
Etc.
On the right would be:
Libertarianism
Concepts of constitutionalism to an extent
Anarchy
And then otherwise leftist government that for some reason cannot exercise power or don't have a high degree of it
*communism can't exist
Because societies are more complex it is only the ideas that inherently fall on one side or the other, practically speaking you could easily have a dictatorship without government interference
>>69124543
Don't bother, he's probably a handbag-carrying, purple-haired, che-guvera-shirt-wearing, androgynous limp-wristed beta faggot.
What I mean is, he's probably a leftist, and he doesn't want to be associated with le evil nazi.
>muh left vs right
stay bluepilled, faggots
pic related is the TRUE political spectrum
>>69118703
Conservatism =/= Elephant
Also having monarchism after Conservatism is pleb shit. Replace it with Republican party establishment and switch it.
>>69124681
The left / right divide is primarily marked by stance on hierarchy. This is the only real consistency. There is an authoritarian left and an authoritarian right, fascism is the latter. It is categorically right-wing. Left / right isn't necessarily about economics or authority, it is about whether or not the political philosophy permits or promulgates stark hierarchy.
Authoritarian marxist states still had a grounded political philosophy of Marxism and purported to work in the worker's interests by proxy. On the other hand, fascism is basically neo-caesarism
>>69124872
>Libertalia
>Real
>>69124543
Origins of Totalitarianism is incoherent garbage.
>>69125008
>The left / right divide is primarily marked by stance on hierarchy.
No it's not, the left/right dichotomy (which is pretty retarded, I'll grant you that) usually refers to the amount of state interference in private matters.
There is no such thing as "authoritarian right" as the right, i.e. libertarianism or whatever you want to call it, is inherently anti-authoritarian.
>>69124668
During Hitler times there were no right-wing political parties.
There was monarchy(right-wing) and there were worker (left-wing) parties.
Capitalism is trying to ban borders to have faster trade routes, like monarchism tried to conquer whole world by force and also didn't care about nationalities or races, everybody was thrown into the army, just like in NATO.
>>69125097
much of it is, but i think the comparisons made between nazi-ism and communism hold up pretty well
>>69125165
>Capitalism is trying to ban borders to have faster trade routes,
Absolutely false.
Japan is ultra-capitalistic and has closed borders.
The people advocating for open borders are usually the socialists, the greens, the communists, the antifas, i.e. left-wing anti-capitalist faggots.
>>69125165
Can you make a point because that was devoid of one
I don't even know what your assertion is and how to respond to you
>>69118703
>2016
>thinking of politics as a linear spectrum
wew
>>69125123
>usually refers to the amount of state interference in private matters
Then how are conservatives or nationalists more right-wing than centrists, social liberals, and socdems?
>>69125318
Japan isn't capitalistic, capitalistic would be Japan bringing in more sheep labor for decling birth rates for the economic interests of capitalists.
>>69124545
Nazism =/= Socialism. Prove otherwise without using semantics. I can prove my point.
>Socialism is accomplished with the total victory of the Proletariat over the ruling classes, through class warfare.
>Hitler offered an alliance between labour and capital in the form of corporatism, with the express purpose of PREVENTING class war.
>Industrialists did well in the Nazi years, helped by a state policy of crushing the unions and emphasising full employment over raising pay.
>Nazis literally crushed the unions
>Guys the nazis were socialist!
>Another area in which Hitler was no socialist was his racism. Marxism defines history as a class struggle. Hitler saw it as a racial conflict. Bolshevism was just a Jewish construct to him.
>Are Liberals the same as Classical Liberals
I asked this question rhetorically. The fact you answered it as if I didn't already know the answer shows your social ineptitude and suggests you suffer from autism.
>Says the guy who thinks naziism is right wing because his high school teacher told him so
Actually, I've already made clear that I don't fall for the left wing/ right wing model as it's simplistic and redundant. Once again you feel the need to strawman my argument. Pathetic, really.
>>69124872
That's some fucking interesting shit, saved. Also generally agree that the left-right dichotomy is blue-pill political theatre for the plebeian masses.
>>69125462
National Socialism is Socialism.
>>69125441
>Then how are conservatives or nationalists more right-wing than centrists, social liberals, and socdems?
They're not. Socially conservative/liberal has nothing to do with politics.
You can be an open borders faggot while still being ultra-capitalistic like jewish libertarians.
Or you can be a nationalistic commie, like Mussolini and (to a lesser extent) Hitler were.
Conservatives and nationalists usually advocate for greater individual liberty and smaller government, at least in the USA, which is usually why they're often considered right wing.
>>69125462
Socialism is purely economic is has nothing to do with class theory.
>>69125621
>>69119071
you appear to have fallen for the single axis meme
>>69118703
>1 dimensional political spectrum
This is just retarded. The 2d one is flawed enough. A true political spectrum would need to be 3 dimensional.
>>69125679
Communions isn't socialism, Marxist theory isn't socialism, Socialism is the distribution of the resources of the state for the interest of the people.
>>69120536
Religion doesn't force you do to something anymore, It gives moral ground for the people, and it's part of the culture. If you are brainless sheep then yes, religion is slavery. Perhaps that's why edgy kids so hate religion.
>>69125327
Point being that right-wing and capitalism came after Socialism. In Socialism you had one political party and you didn't vote. People voted just to escape monarchy and to get language/nationality rights. Under Austrian-Hungarian monarchy you were allowed to speak your language, you weren't allowed to be a country, you were mere a number in the kingdom, but there were many kingdoms. When Communists won then kings were gone and laws changed to the point that Socialism was created, a pure form of nationalism, which wasn't possible during monarchy and then we banned German language and everything foreign. In case of Nazi Germany they banned everything foreign too, as well in case of Soviet Union and many other Socialistic countries, who had monarchy before that.
>>69125790
This can be done with one absolute economic leader.
>>69125756
>>69125831
? You can have nationalist Monarchism and you can have anti-nationalist Monarchism.
>>69119040
>resist change, reduce change
False. Conservatism was originally about making only necessary changes. When society had no obligation to change they would resist it. It is the most rational political stance. Even thought its obvious to have a a conservative and secular state while having mostly liberal systems in place when dealing with economy.
>>69125447
>Japan isn't capitalistic,
Wew
>>69125462
>Prove otherwise without using semantics
Sure.
Let's look at the actual policies as practiced by Nazis. They included :
- a high degree of governmental control over the economy
- a massive welfare state
- censorship of anything which went "contrary to the common good"
- political repression of anyone who went "contrary to the common good".
The fact is, Hitler's Germany and Stalin's USSR were very similar countries.
Replace "bourgeois" by "jews" and "proletariat" by "aryan race" and a Lenin speech magically becomes a Hitler speech.
>Nazis literally crushed the unions
Oy vey, then I guess Maggie was a nazi, yes?
Fucking idiotic moron, you think the USSR didn't crush the unions? Ever heard of the Kronsdadt rebellion?
>I asked this question rhetorically.
I couldn't guess that, you stupid paki. Jesus.
>Actually, I've already made clear that I don't fall for the left wing/ right wing model as it's simplistic and redundant.
You fall for the equally simplistic and retarded two dimensial political spectrum? Wow you're a genius!
>>69125790
If you'd like to use that definition then name me a non-socialist leader of the 20th century.
>>69118703
LOL communism doesn't imply authoritarianism.
>>69118703
Only subhumans fall for this side picking game. Centrists will always be the most esteemed politicians.
>>69118703
>Fascism
>Nazism
>Anarchism
>left wing
Nietzsche is rolling in his grave over your stupidity, you fucking pleb
>>69125831
That has nothing to do with the distinction I'm trying to make, which is absent historical notion o the distinction which are arbitrary and political
When the aristocracy made the king sign a constitution into law, that government became more right than left
Nationalism is possible with every form of government, so it's improper to make it left or right, because you can just call said government [libertarian]-nationalist. I mean hell you could have a nationalist anarchic society by virtue of the companies operating in a nationalist fashion
>>69125950
Monarchs built huge parks for their mistresses and raped any woman they wanted, they didn't care about people starving. Monarchy only respected blue blood. No such thing as nationalism in monarchy.
>>69119775
you are so fucking ignorant. please don't vote in any elections, thanks
>>69126017
All the U.S presidents, all the British prime ministers, French republic, practically all the non declared socialist states with a few exceptions.
>>69126110
Nietzsche is a faggot.
>>69126245
Yes there is.
>>69126245
One of the core arguments for a monarchy is that the monarchy is more invested in the continuance and growth of their country, because they are tied to it. And also their legacy is cited as a consideration.
Monarchies *tend* to be more nationalistic outside of hyperbole
>>69126245
There's good monarchs and bad monarchs, the worst monarch is better than the best republic.
>>69126245
Oh and the monarchies were nationalistic, you were just conquered.
>>69126381
This.
>>69126236
Nationalism is historically always related to certain white race culture on some territory with borders. If you have no borders and you have different type of people living in your country you can't be nationalistic. Hitler wanted to collect all Germanic people, we wanted to collect all Yugoslav people and when Franz Ferdinand mixed Yugoslav people with Germanic people he got shot. Austria imported Slavs, since we were under monarchy, same as Russian tsars, they only were building huge armies and work labour, shit they cared about your culture or origin. Aristocrats were only interested in accumulating more money, same as capitalists do today when they open borders for hordes. While in past they had to conquer to expand, now we have private ownership.
>>69126245
Looks like you suffer from communist propaganda indoctrination.
Austro-Hungary was one of the best states to have ever existed. It's a fucking shame it disappeared.
>>69126628
Looks like you don't realize Mussolini and Hitler were both Communists, being part of Communist movement before they got all popular.
>>69118703
>CHRISTIANITY = LIBERTARIANISM
This is so fucking American, with your stupid constitution.
A real christian nation would have christianity as a state religion, and wouldn't allow things like blasphemy. It would be a bit like the Muslim countries actually.
>>69126869
Pretty much.
Fascists are the most Christian state.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2fpgu8cr3M
>>69126831
I do? I've been saying that this whole thread.
>>69126007
>a high degree of governmental control over the economy
Oh wow, a command economy under wartime? Who would have thought? (State capitalist command economy, privately owned firms)
>a massive welfare state
Which was and solely for the benefit and purpose of protecting German people and more specifically Aryans, not a welfare state as we know it.
Hitler claimed that equality of opportunity for all racially sound German males was the meaning of the "socialism" of National Socialism.
>censorship of anything which went "contrary to the common good"
Wait, this is socialism? Seems you're consciously or unconsciously trying to move the area of debate as to whether Hitler was an authoritarian or not, to which the answer is undoubtedly yes. Failed strawman.
>Oy vey, then I guess Maggie was a nazi, yes?
Yet again, strawmanning my argument. I never said crushing unions is inherently Nazi. I said crushing unions is an un-socialist policy. You're actually arguing against yourself, since Hitler and Thatcher both crushed trade unions, yet you're saying Hitler was a socialist. Haha.
>Fucking idiotic moron, you think the USSR didn't crush the unions?
The USSR was built on unions. The power of the individual worker was restricted, but unions were responsible for dishing out welfare and representing workers etc.
>You fall for the equally simplistic and retarded two dimensial political spectrum
Which one might that be? I don't approve of political spectra in general. Reductionist.
>>69118703
Christianity has no political system. The closest you would get would be a monarchy headed by the pope.
>>69126355
>French republic
What? France is one of the most socialist countries in Europe... It used to have the biggest communist party in Europe during the cold war.
>>69121547
The fuck you talking about? Christianity is by definition communism
>>69126355
>Socialism is the distribution of the resources of the state for the interest of the people
What is a military
What is a police force
What is socialized medicine
Also Britain and France had plenty of self-proclaimed socialist leaders in the 20th century.
>>69127022
>Oh wow, a command economy under wartime? Who would have thought? (State capitalist command economy, privately owned firms)
I wasn't aware Germany was at war from 1933 to 1939
>Which was and solely for the benefit and purpose of protecting German people and more specifically Aryans, not a welfare state as we know it.
Of course it was a welfare state as we know it you stupid faggot.
>Hitler claimed that equality of opportunity for all racially sound German males was the meaning of the "socialism" of National Socialism.
Substitute "sound german male" for "american regardless of race or religion" and you've got an Obama speech, congratulations.
>Wait, this is socialism?
Yes, because socialism requires planning, and planning cannot survive when people do not obey the plan. Curtailing of individual liberties, which include free speech, are a necessary development in every socialist society.
>Yet again, strawmanning my argument.
> I said crushing unions is an un-socialist policy.
Lenin did it! Stalin did it! You stupid faggot nigger!
>The USSR was built on unions.
Yeah top kek, if you think the soviets really held any power you deserve a bullet in the brains.
>Which one might that be?
The ones being posted in this thread by mindless drones.
>>69127302
>What is a military
>What is a police force
Not socialism
Saying the military is "socialism" is as stupid as saying that the rule of law is "socialism" because it's provided by the state.
>>69126978
>Hitler
>Defending Christianity
lol no
The Nazis engaged on one of the most brutal campaigns against Christendom since the Muslim efforts to conquer Europe.
>But... But... Muh Positive Christianity
That was an effort by the Nazis to muscle their way into the Church and turn it into an echo chamber.
>>69118703
>some retarded autist actually made this image
>>69127010
You do realize Slavs had a ban on their languages under Austrian-Hungary? And later during Socialism we had a ban on Germans, only fitting. Without Communist movement you would still be raped by knights at king's will.
>>69126869
>a real Christian nation would use gunfire to enforce its beliefs
>unlike those savage Muslims
>>69127302
>distribution of the resources of the state for the interest of the people
By that logic every country that isn't corrupt would be socialist.
>>69127046
What did France provide for its citizens?
Did it build houses?
Did it abolish rent?
Did it increase production against the interests of a group for the interests of the vast majority?
Did it give their citizens trips around the world?
Did it exterminate poverty, homelessness, hunger, and unemployment?
>>69127431
>>69127431
Are you fucking retarded. Hitler said "Christians are too nice" himself
>>69127511
>>69127431
>building 1500 churches
>most brutal campaign against Christendom since the Muslim efforts to conquer europe
Leftists actually believe this.
>>69127431
Propaganda.
>>69123436
meme were around during ww2?
>>69127033
This is technically the best answer. Christianity 'grafts' onto whatever the current regime is, and, in doctrine, should attempt to do good with the State.
The Christian Theocratic states which have existed were the Teutonic Knights (not kidding. It was a government of Crusaders) and the Papal States (a state in Italy led by the actual Pope.) What is so interesting though is that fellow Catholics actually went to war with the fucking Pope and were still considered 'in good standing with God' because the Secular and Theocratic lines in Christianity is by design pretty well drawn. Comparatively, Pope Urban excommunicated the King of France because he stopped fucking his wife for Mistresses.
An "actual Christian government" would be the EU, rather than a Theocracy. It's design was supposed to be Transnational, which was why the Thirty Years War was such a big deal.
>>69127454
Probably because Austria-Hungary wanted to assimilate slavs.
>>69127472
That is unrelated. Those are individuals and not states.
>>69127586
>>69127511
>>69127431
Sorry, 2500. My bad.
>>69127484
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7c9tB77YdU
>>69127586
Hitler only wanted to unite Germanic race, he would give them bible if so their wish, he used religion as way to control people, like leaders today, but leaders today will control for their own gains only. Soviet union had churches, so did Yugoslavia, only thing we prosecuted is religion on streets and government.
>>69123230
>roseanne barr
>right-wing
>bernie sanders
>literally center
Bullshit status: Bullshit
>ywn have an absolute monarch with the authority to order ethnic cleansings by divine right
Feels bad man
>>69127484
>Did it build houses?
Ofcourse it did, like every other government.
>Did it abolish rent?
No, it's not communism. But I assume they did give money to those who couldn't pay the rent.
>Did it increase production against the interests of a group for the interests of the vast majority?
Everyone tries to control the market in some way.
>Did it give their citizens trips around the world?
wat
>Did it exterminate poverty, homelessness, hunger, and unemployment?
That only happends in fairytales.
>>69127662
If you want to play semantics, I'll tell you that a state is merely an assortment of individuals. Individuals with guns. You're jumping through hoops to try to avoid the fact that mandating your religion through force is not Christian.
>>69127511
>Not one Christian Church was closed.
Tell that to Oradour-sur-Glane. They did a helluva lot more than just close it.
>>69127986
Feels bad man, only ones who could easily get that glory would be Britain, Denmark, and Sweden.
>>69127654
No shit, like they want to assimilate Muslims into Belgium or Mexicans into USA. History repeats all the time. Capitalists only care about easier management of resources, which are people too, so that's also why EU has no borders, that was the plan since beginning. International trucks don't have to stop or be checked so often, money flows faster and people from different countries can invest, which sometimes means investing into building mosques, which is where Christian private ownership likeness stops, but not before.
>>69127564
Hitler considered religion something for the weak, he hated the Catholic church and only wanted to use the protestant church to control the people.
>>69127586
>Massacre millions of Catholics in Poland
>Not a brutal campaign against Christendom
Stormfaggots actually believe this
>>69128117
Allied propaganda says.
>>69128169
what?
>>69123230
Not even the start of it
>>69128169
>Catholic.
>Christian.
Pick one and only one.
>>69128169
Polish pop Population in 1939 34,775,000
Poles
Polacy Total population
c.60 million
>>69128022
I'm not. There is a difference between an individual and a state. But aside from that, I wouldn't say that using force is not Christian.
>>69128288
Catholics are the only Christians, Protestants are 1800s modern "Christianity".
>>69128183
No, his actions and his achitect say that.
>>69128288
pls stop the memes
>>69127511
>>69127586
Daily Reminder that not even Western Europe was safe from Nazi murder and plunder
>>69128386
Again, allied propaganda says so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StaPF5qqFDk
>>69128510
hahahaha fucking kikes.
>>69128510
