Most people who support transgenderism would support the idea that transgender and homosexual people should be recognized equally. The most important reason why I don't view this as correct is that homosexuality does not appear to be a mental disorder while transgenderism appears to be a mental disorder.
First, a mental disorder is defined as "a condition that impacts a person's thinking, feeling or mood and may affect his or her ability to relate to others and function on a daily basis" by the National Alliance on Mental Illness (the wikipedia definition is basically the same thing). If you are trying to see if a set of behavior is a mental disorder, then you would apply both parts of this definition to the behavioral patterns.
"impacts a person's thinking, feeling or mood": Homosexual and transgender people have different general patterns of thinking and feeling from the average person based on their mental conditions, so I would say that both of them are in agreement with the first part of the definition.
"may affect his or her ability to relate to others and function on a daily basis": A person who comes out as homosexual will not have to make large changes to their life in any way (other than sexual matters of course) while a person who comes out as transgender will have to make large changes to their life (including surgery and hormone treatment).
Second, a mental disorder generally has symptoms attached to the disorder. For example, people who have OCD suffer from various anxiety related symptoms (general anxiety and paranoia are two of them). Homosexuality without the active presence of social stigmas does not result in symptoms, while transgenderism results in symptoms without the active presence of social stigmas. I couldn't find any hard data for the number of transgender people who have other mental disorders, but it is estimated to be at least the majority.
>>70112970
Third and most importantly, people who identify as transgender are not able to resolve their problems through any sort of procedures while people who identify as homosexual require no procedures. A person can get plastic surgery and hormone treatment to make themselves look more like what they want to look like, but the person isn't changed as a result of the procedures to any significant degree. Male and female sex genes will always be present and stopping hormone treatment will always lead to your original male/female physiological traits reasserting themselves. You are making yourself look more male/female, but you aren't actually more male/female due to both of these things.
I'm not in favor of shaming people who are mentally ill or anything like this, but I'm definitely in favor of having people understand their conditions better. People with mental disorders should be encouraged to live in the best way possible, and trying to transition between genders causes many problems over the span of your life.
You might say I'm preaching to the choir. I wanted to post this to /lgbt/, but I doubt that I would receive decent responses since many people who browse it are already transitioning/transitioned between genders.
>>70112995
read this carefully
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/12/a-new-way-to-be-mad/304671/
Transgender = Fetishism gone too far
Bunch of faggots watched too much disney movies and think they can just dress up, make a wish and they will magically turn into females.
Homosexuality, in contrast to transgenderism doesn't really cause any issues, save for what rampant sexuality and abundant willing partners cause. Transgenderism on the other hand is quite clearly a harmful mental illness that should be treated, studied and understood rather than normalized and propagated in anyone with any form of gender disparity or confusion. Try to bring this up with the SJW crowd and you'll get shouted to death instead.
>>70113233
It's a harmful mental illness, not fetishism. Next you're going to tell me schizophrenic just have an overactive imagination.
>>70113468
>It's a harmful mental illness
rarely, most of the time its just fetishism.
You post this everyday and at this point it should be considered spam.
You're not helping your cause.
>>70112995
>people who identify as transgender are not able to resolve their problems through any sort of procedures while people who identify as homosexual require no procedures. A person can get plastic surgery and hormone treatment to make themselves look more like what they want to look like, but the person isn't changed as a result of the procedures to any significant degree. Male and female sex genes will always be present and stopping hormone treatment will always lead to your original male/female physiological traits reasserting themselves. You are making yourself look more male/female, but you aren't actually more male/female due to both of these things.
Being trans doesn't make you retarded. Trans people know what that they are biologically their birth sex, the entire point of transitioning is for the person to be comfortable in their body. And most of the time they are changed significantly by what they do, hormones usually improve their lives significantly, and things like facial feminization surgery or genital reconstruction or lazer hair removal all are improvments to many trans people.
Transition is the only cure we have found for gender dysphoria, and in most cases they are much better after that, many going on to lead normal lives, where when they don't they either kill themselves or repress it until they are forced to deal with it when they're 50 and then kill themselves then. Honestly you're pretty fucking retarded if you think trans people don't consider their options and learn more about their condition than you probably do.
>>70113557
I'm sure you have some well thought-out arguments and or evidence to back up that claim. It's not like transgender people have a far, far higher chance of killing themselves due to being mentally ill at such a base level as their gender identity.
>>70112995
actually sex hormones have a huge impact on the way people behave. Theres a reason why women are so emotional feelsy and men tend to be more physical aggresive and sexually aroused easily.
if you swap testosterone into women and estrogen into men you get opposite sex mental traits.
>>70113321
You get shouted down because you're asking questions that have been answered hundreds of times before and ignorant about what flgender dysphoria is.
>>70113760
>We're trying to make people understand a mental illness, so let's shout down anyone with questions instead of providing them arguments and evidence
Sounds like SJWs alright.
>>70112970
tl;dr
but i study medicine here and two days ago i asked on psychiatrist department whats the medical view on homosexuality and transsexualism
the answer was simple, homosexuality was illness in 70ties and now you cant treat it, you can only treat the fear of it and they can help you accept it
and transsexualism is illness
and everybody dissed me because im slovak and i am bigot
>>70112970
>People falling in love with/wanting to fuck people of the same gender
Ok. Happens in nature too. Most likely a biological cause and not a mental illness.
>People who feel like they've been born a different gender
Genetic aberration of some sort? Still plausible to be within the realm of biology.
>Otherkin, genderfluids, transfats, transniggers etc.
Fuck right off with that bullshit, you delusional retards.
>>70113760
Just like all those doctors got shouted down by giving medical data than yes, in fact, this is illness.
>>70113848
If you go to a group of doctors and ask them to prove bloodletting with leeches isn't a maricle cure they'll be dismissive of you as well.
>>70113169
I skimmed over this in order to respond
Sort of agree with what the author is saying about mental disorders in general. Specifically to transgenderism, what he is saying explains the increase rather well. Males/females who are more feminine/masculine than the average person of their gender might casually think about the implications of being the opposite gender sometimes, and with cultural acceptance of transgenderism this might make the person closer to identification as transgender. I'm not stating that this is the reason why all people are transgender, I'm just stating that this could be a contributing factor towards identification for some.
>>70114023
They'd explain to me why it doesn't work. SJWs will just turn red and shout at me in their shrill demon-voices instead of taking their time to explain something. If they know the causes behind it and the best treatment, certainly they'd be able to explain it concisely.
>>70113644
Suicide rates are the same pre and post op, you retard. You may as well say it is fine to let a schizo cut off thier hands because they self identifyly as a vietnamese child who lost his hands as a result of unexploded ordinance and then act suprised when he isn't any happier.
There are people with species dysphoria who want to be animals and shit. Even LGBT think they're retarded. But are they so different from Trans really?
>>70114369
No they are not, you retard. The study everyone likes to cite was ridiculously flawed, comparing the rates of post op trans people with cis people rather than pre-op trans people. Of course trans people are still going to have a higher rate of suicide than normal people, they have an affliction that not only makes it very easy for them to hate everything about themselves, but even in the most progressive society they'll never be treated as completley normal. Post op trans people almost always report satisfaction with their decision, and have a lower suicide rate than pre op trans people.
If I am a man and say I am a woman, that's ok.
If I am a man or woman and say I am Napoleon Bonaparte emperor of France, that isn't, why.
>>70114720
Post sources.
>>70114720
>cis people
>>70114910
I think it's a valid term to use, don't you think?
>>70112970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDAU3SPYFsA
Related I guess. Good ammo for people looking to argue against retarded trans faggots.
>>70114658
A person cannot be an animal. There is no social roll of being an animal. Gender identity is tied up with society, our social rolls and how we are seen by others and such. That makes up almost the entierty of what we are. Gender identity is a lot like personality, not somthing that can be controlled and is just there with people. With trans people we can pretty easily use medicine to swap their homones around in their blood, making their bodies develop like a womans, which is pretty good at eliminating dysphoria, especially if they have support.
>>70114994
We didn't always have the medical knowhow to transition people. What if we find new ways to give people animal like qualities. Would this not also ease their discomfort? How are they different? Wouldn't we have to treat them the same as trans?
>>70114896
Because someone can be born a woman and we aren't sure what's going on psychologically that makes someone so.
People aren't born the Emperor of France and we know the intelectual prowess that made him so great.
>>70114994
The thing is though if they don't have "support", and they aren't coddled constantly then they kill themselves or attempt to. No one is going to give confirmation to the ones that look like complete shit which happens to be a lot or most of them. It seems it is a "disorder" based mostly around acceptance which a lot of people don't want to give them.
>>70115249
If your parents were royals you absolutely could be born an emperor.
>>70113679
Or maybe they do it because they realize they have ventured too far down the wrong path at some point, or does it have to be some prior reason?
>>70114720
>cis people
Go back to your shitbox.
>>70113629
I just wrote this post today, and I've never posted anything on transgenderism before. I don't have a cause, just expressing my stance on a discussion board
>>70113644
Being more comfortable in your body is good, but irreparable changes being made should be avoided if possible in my opinion. The changes being made in this case aren't complete changes and that is what I was trying to state through the selection you quoted. There's no way to measure the degree of improvement as a result of these changes objectively at the moment (surveys can measure things like this to some degree, dependent on the objectivity of the survey and the survey takers), so I would take the stance of status quo in regards to how improved a person is as a result of gender transitioning surgery.
The only thing present to treat something shouldn't be identified as "the only cure". Treatment and cures are two separate things, and if transitioning objectively is a cure to transgenderism I would have to agree with it being used. In response to what you said about how transition should be completed sooner than later, I don't think pressuring people into transitioning with things like this is a good idea. Increased peer pressure directed at someone to do something motivated by personal experience can be helpful for minor things, but for something as major as gender transition I think any peer pressure should be directed at making either choice quickly independent of the two choices. I know that transgender people think more about their condition than I do, but I can still comment on their condition without having the same condition.
>>70115405
Actually going that far down the path points to mental illness, don't you think?
>>70113679
>have a far, far higher chance of killing themselves due to
That's when they realize it was just a fetish all along and they can no longer understand why they did it.
It's sort of like how little you care about the porn you just fapped to when you finish off. Transgendered people just take that to a hole new level.
90% of transgendered people do it because it's a fetish where they dream about being the other gender - the other 10% are actually born with XX chromosomes and whatnot.
>>70115578
Not necessarily, but that all depends on how high the bar for "mental illness" is.
A lot of sane (by conventional standards) people get pretty carried away with this whole sexual deviancy thing these days, so I'm slightly inclined to agree with our Brazilian friend t.bh
>>70115196
No, wanting animal like qualities that other humans don't have and aren't associated with any social roll is diffrent than gender dysphoria. If someone wanted to be a butcher that's fine, but not someone that wants to be a butcher's cleaver. The first would give them a different life that they desired that was still a normal human thing and they were still the same as others besides the fact that they are a butcher. If someone wanted to be the knife, they would want to be completley diffrent from a human and not be able to do things like drink or move, and because of that it's not plausable.
There is no "animal" identity. If it comes out ofna human vagina it's not going to naturally try and go hunting with teeth and nails. Gender identity is diffrent because it's somthing that we've had for thousands of years and is important to everyone, it is part of what helps us organize as societies and defines roles for us in our lifes.
>>70113468
>Next you're going to tell me schizophrenic just have an overactive imagination.
Yes, it's an overactive imagination that enslaves their empty shells.
Trust me, i'm a specialist
>>70115354
If a cis person was treated the same they'd probably be likley to kill themselves.
>>70115383
Yes, but only Napoleon was born Napoleon, half of people are born women.
>>70116017
And? Cis people aren't constantly seeking confirmation of their gender like trans people are. No one is going to give confirmation to someone that looks like a man in women's clothing.
>>70115900
>No, wanting animal like qualities that other humans don't have and aren't associated with any social roll is different than gender dysphoria.
No. They are both impossible aspirations. You're just wrong.
>There is no "animal" identity.
Just as there is no woman "identity". Identity is fictitious. Your sex is physical, and physiological. You are attempting to confuse the two in order to create space for your beliefs to exist logically, but it doesn't work. Transgendered are suffering from a mental illness, comparable to BIID.
>>70112970
Homosexuality is a mental condition in most cases (some fags are just filthy perverts who revel is sodomy for it's own sake).
This mental condition is caused in the womb when the polarity of the brain gets switched from male to female (or visa versa). Showing further evidence of this are several well documented cases of people who suffered brain damage which turns them into queers.
My opinion is that queers should not be persecuted but should be forced back into their closets. If the want to commit their foul unnatural acts in private fair enough but faggotry should not be encouraged of celebrated; basically Russis has the right laws against puffters.
>>70115455
Then we shouldn't give people braces to fix bad teeth or mutilate people's stomachs to remove the appendix either?
There is no way to objectivly measure improments in peoples lifes, and to want to stop trans people from transitioning because "they might regret it later" is complete bullshit. It's condeming people to suffering because you think you know better than them about their own thoughts. It's not coming from a caring place, it's masking that you're uncomfortable with it by trying to seem sympathetic.
Trans people know that they want to transition and it almost always benefits them, it should be their decision.
>>70116560
>It's condeming people to suffering because you think you know better than them about their own thoughts
Because you should totally trust a mentally ill person to know what's best for them without any form of psychological evaluation.
>>70116560
You don't give whiskey bottle to alcoholic.
Just as you shouldn't give trans people that are mentally ill and don't know any better sex change.
This insanity should be threated not nursed.
Homosexuals don't mutilate themselves.
I'm not a bad person, I don't hate transgender people. I care about everyone, which is why they should be classified as mentally ill. They need psychiatric help, and I think it's extremely cruel for people to deny them that and convince them to chop their penises off instead.
You wouldn't tell an anorexic person to not eat if it makes them happy. Or maybe a liberal would, I don't know anymore.
>>70116777
>>70116667
Oh noes, I've been le stumped XdXd
Le ebic 4chan rationalistd win agaim! XDXD
>>70117114
God job losing any credibility.
>>70117114
Post sources that support your arguments, faggot. I can claim transgendered people are brainwashed by aliens, but nobody is going to fucking believe it.
>>70116560
Using braces on teeth objectively straightens the teeth, and you can confirm this through simple comparisons between people with the same dental problem who either used braces or did not use braces. Removal of the appendix is generally completed to treat appendicitis or some other kind of condition that requires removal. If removal is not completed, it is possible that the appendix will burst and the person will end up being in critical condition.
I would like for them to avoid suffering, and I know from personal experience that suffering as a result of actions being completed can be worse than suffering if the actions were never completed. People who think they might be or actively identify as transgender should identify their condition as a mental disorder before they make any decisions on it. The result of this is regret as a result of actions either way will be mitigated.
>>70116560
>There is no way to objectivly measure improments in peoples lifes
Yes there is, and 3000 years of medical evolution is my proof. There is no proof that gender dysphoria even exists, except for the mental anguish of its sufferers. There is no physical symptom at all. A man with appendicitis will die as his organ bursts and poisons his whole body. You're a faggot.
>It's condeming people to suffering because you think you know better than them about their own thoughts.
or
>Should people with BIID be able to chop off their limbs?
Should I have to pay for their resulting social security, or their medical bills for amputation? Should parents to allow children with BIID to entertain their urges? Not a hard question when you don't hyperbolically ignore the ramifications in liu of "freedom" you're only interested in applying in a very narrow field.
Those suffering from gender dysphoria are suffering from gender dysphoria, not being born in the wrong body, as your camp so often claims. Trans people are sick, and while I hope you all get help, I simultaneously hope you all trip over and fucking die for all the trouble you've collectively caused the world.
>>70117114
You sure got us...
>>70117114
Oh I also like how you had the time to reply to those posts but not to this one>>70116264
Wanna know why you didn't?
Because your arguments are full of shit.
>>70116560
>and to want to stop trans people from transitioning because "they might regret it later" is complete bullshit.
It's really not.
No doctor tells a schizophrenic to listen to the voices in their head and no doctor prescribes liposuction for an anorexic. Yet, when it comes to one specific delusion [transgenderism] it is, somehow, OK to further it.
Suffering is a part of life; people are going to have to just live with having a damaged brain instead of giving in to insanity.
There is more damage coming from you because you want to believe you're oh-so-caring that you dare not upset anyone. You would rather treat the effect rather than the symptom; basically, you want to switch bandage brands rather than treat the wound.
But, I doubt anything will penetrate your thick, yet sensitive, skull. Oh, well.
>>70117621
XDXD fresh shit mayne
>>70117756
Yup, thanks for confirmation how full of shit you are.
>>70112970
>>70112995
Let's make it simple: if someone needs to put forward his sexuality so fucking much, while no one fucking cares, as if it was the most important thing in the world to wear skirts and piss in the ladies room, all the while pointing out it's all a "social construct" with no basis, making him fully aware of his own condition thus ability to deal with it, not to mention is denial that the main difference between men and women are their reproductive organs which they cannot possibly change, as well as having gone through infancy as a specific gender which defined them deep down to a level they cannot possibly match, well I'm guessing something is wrong with them.
Because most people, even those with weird deviancies, keep it all to themselves and don't spend their time rubbing it in the face of everyone, and they don't deny reality either.
Those people literally need to be put down, for they are a danger to society, as they encourage the same problem in other weak people like them, putting them in a great danger.
Most transfags commit suicide, let's not forget that. Encouraging them equals wishing their death.
>>70115900
I identify as a clown fish, which has the ability to change its gender at will. Thanks to modern medicine I am now able to change my gender. I dream that one day I will also become more fish like. Until then I prefer wearing flippers and water wings whilst donning clown makeup when alone. It's not perfect, but it helps me feel more comfortable in my body.
>>70117756
