Bernie on free college. How do I prove to someone that free college is a bad idea ?
Bump. I need help guys
>>70096144
Research the drop out rates of minorities that already get free grants and scholarships.
>>70096144
> So I have this opinion but I have no reason to hold it, please help me out to validate the belief I already have for no reason
This is some reddit and tumblr tier shit thinking m8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8CLriJF-uc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Yp1jUtcX8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQJtX6WsZ10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1jCSfySGtk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keJL-boLZkM
NO ARGUMENTS BEYOND THIS POINT
--------------N-O-T-------------A-N------------A-R-G-U-M-E-N-T---------------
>>70096144
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8CLriJF-uc
NOT
>>70096144
You don't
>>70096144
It wouldn't be a bad idea if the colleges didn't offer what is essentially their "money making" courses. Useless shit that isn't STEM, philosophy, actual art, history, etc. Shit like women's studies is not a real thing and could be studied in a history curriculum.
All in all, I think it would be a good idea and in reality it would be an investment towards the people (who are the nation). Of course, I think trade schools should also be helped in that aspect as well.
>>70096144
search gender studies, this should be enough to prove your point. also other majors which are literally useless.
>pic unrelated
>>70096144
If everyone has a degree no one has a degree. 30 years ago one could get a upper level position with only a GED and people could still get mediocre/ decent jobs without it. Now you can't work at fucking mcdonalds without a GED, and any decent job that you can attempt to make a living off of, you already have to go to college for. All we're going to end up doing is just staying in school longer and longer until we're 30 and we still live with our parents.
How many people have both a degree and a shitty job?
I have a B.A., but I still had to go back to tech school to get a decent paying job.
We already have an overabundance of college grads. Why would we want more? Get a job, be a decent employee, save as much money as you can, and stop buying their fucking marketing.
Why is it bad? People still have to test into college, and all it means is that poorer people have better access to education, and don't have to stay in a deadend field just because they paid money for it.
>>70096144
>Bernie on free college. How do I prove to someone that free college is a bad idea ?
blacks in the USA already get free college.
having free college in the USA is just giving white working class kids a fighting chance.
There's already a huge problem with college grads not finding jobs
>so let's get more college grads
It's not if you keep college tough and competitive and selective.
That means throwing away all the useless shit, tough admission test and graduation tests and so on. Shit like africology studies should just be optional things that kids do in their free time, not the main course.
You tell him more scholarships for the degrees in demand would be better.
Free is another word to say they're going to get the money somewhere else.
Like increasing taxes, for example, so even if you'll never get anywhere near a college you have to pay for someone else's high education.
>>70097165
Pretty much this.
But let me butt in. Here College is free, as in everyone pays for it in in taxes. College is seen as a public service. So anyone (and I mean anyone, including immigrants) can receive education and then graduate in their specialty without ever paying a cent for their education or be oblige to serve as a public servant for x number of years to pay for their education (Medicine and other areas do require a number of pre training that is usually done in public hospitals but that is another kind of requirement).
It is a good system? Yeah, it has its problems but it has worked. Does that mean that private college are bad? Not at all, actually there are also for profit schools here and some are even better than the public option though not in all areas. For example in Engineering (my specialty) there are 3 type of graduates that usually get all the jobs, the graduates from ITBA, UBA and UTN. From those 3 only ITBA is a for profit college and some say the best of the 3 but all 3 are more than decent in their program.
So what is the problem with this? well I would say that not everyone is cut to get a college degree and usually having the option of "free" college will have A LOT of kids coming out of highschool and NEVER get pass the first year of college and being completely unable of adapt to a new life and kind of study, though that also counterweight the issue of "worthless degrees". Also I would argue that the benefits of the systems outweigh the cons.
Just to clarify, I'm a Trump supporter that is arguing with a liberal.
Well, to begin with it's not exactly free; the working class pays for it in taxes. Another thing that's worth noting is that it really diminishes the incentive to work hard on your studies, because you could always redo it again another time around.
>>70096144
free college doesnt mean free education
also tell them to go live in cuba for a while, they'll know what socialism is soon enough
>>70096144
Free college doesn't actually exist.
Berners are too fucking retarded to understand that sadly.
>>70097632
>Free is another word to say they're going to get the money somewhere else.
Leftwing Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders said: “Children should not go hungry while billionaires use offshore tax havens to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.” He used the leak to attack his opponent, Hillary Clinton, for supporting a 2011 free trade deal between the US and Panama. “I wish I had been proven wrong about this, but it has now come to light that the extent of Panama’s tax avoidance scams is even worse than I had feared,” he said.
The Vermont senator said that if elected president he would “terminate” the Panama agreement within six months and “conduct an immediate investigation into US banks, corporations and wealthy individuals who have been stashing their cash in Panama to avoid taxes. If any of them have violated US law, my administration will prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.”
>>70097632
>Like increasing taxes, for example,
Leftwing Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders said: “Children should not go hungry while billionaires use offshore tax havens to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.” He used the leak to attack his opponent, Hillary Clinton, for supporting a 2011 free trade deal between the US and Panama. “I wish I had been proven wrong about this, but it has now come to light that the extent of Panama’s tax avoidance scams is even worse than I had feared,” he said.
The Vermont senator said that if elected president he would “terminate” the Panama agreement within six months and “conduct an immediate investigation into US banks, corporations and wealthy individuals who have been stashing their cash in Panama to avoid taxes. If any of them have violated US law, my administration will prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.”
>>70096144
Try thinking, it might helps you your whole life.
>>70096144
Okay, you started with dubs, so I'll chime in, and I'll be be clear & concise.
Nothing is free.
Free college doesn't exist.
Free college means it's paid by someone else, e.g. taxation.
>>70101014
JESUS CHRIST
AS-RARE-AS-A-HONEST-JEW
>>70101014
What flag is this?? I'm on mobile
>>70096144
Free college is bad, cheap college is very good, scholarships are also very good.
The optimum balance for college is the following:
Poor can only get to college if they work hard or they are intelligent and most middle class can pay for college without it being too much of a burden.
You don't, because it's not. Education is one of the most basic investments a society can make for its people and its economy. It is also one of the most effective investments for economic development. Like it or not.
>>70101290
>paying money for college when you can just google everything for free
stay retarded
>>70100851
>“Children should not go hungry while billionaires use offshore tax havens to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.”
Children should not go hungry while Bernie's obese wife complains about bankers because the obesity epidemic costs the U.S. about $140 billion a year according to the CDC while tax evasion in all tax haven countries costs the U.S. about $100 billion according to Bernie.
So Bernie, who takes agribusiness donations, has pandered to agribusiness and dairy in Vermont, and who has an obese wife, has been an enabling part of a major public/public health problem that costs us about 50% more than the tax havens cost the U.S.
>>70096144
The state of college in France now and for the past few decades is a good start.
>>70101384
>when you can just google everything for free
Thinking that reading shit off google is the same as a legitimate university education is retarded as fuck. There's tons of good information that you can't even find on google, and not going to university means you probably wouldn't be able to identify it even if you did see it. Google University doesn't exist, you NEET-tier fuck.
wagie-sponsored university is a bad thing because people go there only for status and some lefttards intentionally pick a retarded major like free arts or anglic studies or political history that have no real jobs
>>70096144
Show how all the other free programs are doing.
It's basically just creating grades 13-16.
>>70096144
Watch Steven Crowder's YouTube videos on how democratic socialism won't work and life under Bernie. I'd link you if I wasn't on my phone.
>>70101493
>Thinking that reading shit off google is the same as a legitimate university education is retarded as fuck.
You're right. Thinking that wasting time on commuting every morning and evening and being taught by a teacher who is statistically likely to be incompetent as opposed to having instantaneous, free, high quality information is retarded.
And blaming universities for being too expensive and thinking that the solution is to spend more money on them and to involve the government is even more retarded.
>>70096144
America became great because of the free education handed out to returning veterans.
>>70096144
Anyone who thinks college will ever be "free" isn't worth trying to prove anything to. If they realize it won't really be free, and they support Bernie anyway, explain to them that since Carter made student loans available to everyone, colleges became "too big to fail'. They're subsidized by the government, so they can keep inflating prices endlessly. While the cost goes up, the wasteful spending goes up, administrator salaries goes up, quality of education goes down, graduation rates go down, degrees become more and more worthless as the market gluts with too many garbage degrees. This requires people to get graduate degrees to remain competitive, and those are decreasing in value. Basically the same inflation principle as endlessly printing money. It used to be that degrees were not necessary to get a decent job and be middle class; we've made impossible now. Even having a degree no longer guarantees middle class status, all in the last 30 years.
The more things we make "free" the faster we crash the system and reduce ourselves to third-world status. Bernie doesn't give a flying fuck about that. No democrat or leftie gives a single fuck about any of that. They're monstrous hypocrites, frauds, con artists -- who tragically appeal to the desire in idealistic but naive people who want to improve the world, but wind up making it worse in all the ways they want to makes it better.
>>70096144
yeah just show him how bad it works in Germany, France, and Northern Europe
>>70101204
New Caledonia
>>70096144
Degrees from public colleges will drop in value and private colleges will get even more expensive.
College educated jobs will have salary decreases.
By studying the issues yourself and forming your own opinions and arguments, not by parroting whatever /pol/ says.
>>70097246
kek
>>70101688
Spoken like a true clueless kiddo who has never stepped foot inside a college classroom. The information I have read, that I have found while doing research for college papers, was far more in-depth than anything you find on Wikipedia or google. It was more specific, it described processes and purposes in ways that you will never find in a search engine. It offered significant insight and useful empirical evidence that you won't find by being a NEET who reads wikipedia articles for fun. There's a reason why educated people laugh at dumbfucks like you. You simply don't have all the information. You lack a thorough understanding of the issues. And you wouldn't know how to get started in correcting that even if you tried.
Fuck off.
>>70097165
You're right, but you should encourage the useful idiots when they're being useful to us.
>>70101694
"free" education handed out to MEN! who went to war and defended what this country stood for (protip... not free shit)
>>70101946
Still, but paying for retards to get degrees in women's and africana studies just so they can go on to work at Starbucks is fucking retarded. It's literally the biggest fuck you to the middle class imaginable.
>>70101946
Why do you defend colleges?
Did god create colleges?
Did aliens create colleges and specifically instruct humanity to NEVER stop wasting trillions of dollars at them, no matter what newer, better, cheaper, more efficient technologies would be invented?
Is there something that colleges can do that cannot, reasonably, be achieved through other media?
Or are you just butthurt?
>>70096144
explain how many white people by % are serial killers and then extrapolate how many serial killers would get housed on campuses to rape and carry their aids which statistically white people have aids. some of them are good people i suppose.
>>70102061
you wouldnt have chinky imageboards to shitpost on without the university system
>>70101839
It isn't state funded college in itself that is the problem, the problem would be switching from paid for education to "free" education
>>70102052
thats not how the federal budget works
>>70102173
i imagine a fair amount of IT and webdesign guys are not "college" graduates... but are you saying 4chan is a + to society not a blight
>>70102052
If your issue is with majors, then your issue is with majors, not education as a whole. There is no questioning that education is one of the best investments society can make for economic development. It is one of the most crucial elements that undeveloped nations often lack. Saying "We shouldn't invest in higher education because some people choose majors I don't like" is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
>>70102061
I do it because I see uneducated fucks like you on here every day who don't understand how the world works and think they can get a degree from Google University. You say we are "Wasting trillions of dollars at them," but that is only because you don't understand the benefit of what they have to offer. You are ignorant as fuck and are trying to argue from a position of ignorance. It's just stupid.
>>70101946
Both of you are exaggerating the issue beyond all proportion. I was fortunate enough to be raised by a PhD aeronautical engineer. I learned how to categorize and discern the quality of source material before I even went to university. When I got there I always had to put up with peers who didn't have a clue how to handle information or find quality sources. That being said, many of my teachers were incompetant in this respect as well. That made paying tuition extremely painful.
I know a handful of people who, through personal endeavor, developed btter study skills and basics as critical thinkers independently of a classroom. That's not something that many people can do; even the majority of people who graduate university don't graduate with any kind of universally applicable skills as researchers.
University has it's value, but it's not the only source of skill and it certainly doesn't guarantee competance.
>>70096144
>How do I prove to someone that free college is a bad idea ?
You don't have to. People already instinctively know that it's a bad idea.
If free college were such a great thing, some state filled with a bunch of leftists would have already done it. We fully fund 13 years of school and subsidize colleges, why not just make them free?
People don't want it. States can't run deficits the way the federal government can, and it all seems more immediate because it's happening really close by. Here in WA I see the same scenario play out again and again:
>People vote for the government to do something, like a big renovation or an expansion of a program
>The state government figures out how they're going to pay for it and asks the people to improve a 1% tax increase
>Voters tell them to forget it
It's not going to happen. Even leftists don't really want it. It's not going to make the fancy schools they go to free, it's going to make the community college that they didn't even go to because they thought it was beneath them free.
It's a complete non-starter.
You end up with hundreds of people every year who have worthless degrees that are the equivalent of gender studies/music, and then complain that they can't get jobs because there's thousands of students who've been looking for a job for years and unable to get anything more than burger-flipping with that degree.
Of course, the government tries to reduce costs by cutting the amount of places and financing for those degrees.
Lo and behold, all the cunts who don't even have 20% attendance in college decide to go protest a proposal that if you have less than 80% attendance with no doctor's note (that you can get for €20 anyway), you will have to pay for your tuition fees that year.
Oy Vey! Free college is a bad idea?! Bad goy! Don't you want somebody else to pay for college for you??? You don't want a huge student loan over your head! Be a good goy and pay some more taxes instead.
>>70102323
I agree. I love education and am currently pursuing a degree in civil engineering, which is a career that will allow me to contribute to society and earn a living. We just need to throw the bathwater out.
>>70102323
You're a small-minded cunt.
Protip: barely a few months ago, shitcunts such as yourself were saying that Uber would never replace taxis because it was physically impossible based on our current understanding of the laws of physics. They sure look silly now.
Don't be that stupid cunt who goes down in history books as the guy who thought that cars wouldn't replace horses.
>>70096144
>have an opinion
>can't justify opinion
>ask others to justify it for them
/pol/ ladies and gentlemen.
>>70096144
>Bernie on free college. How do I prove to someone that free college is a bad idea ?
Get them into a fight about admissions requirements. If you eliminate price then the entire matter of who goes where depends on admissions. Since evaluation of students of differing backgrounds is an intractable problem for liberals (God forbid Jamal not be admitted to Harvard because he can't read) you have demonstrated that free college would either be oppressive or that there's no way to come to a consensus on who should go to the good schools and who should go to the shittier ones.
>>70101014
>>70096144
It's a utopian idea. It will fall short of expectations resulting in resentment. That's the best i got.
Education, if good, is a positive force, mang. Can't argue much.
>>70096144
he'll tax you 15% for your entire life (that's if you AIM for a shit job) for one "free", over subscribed, worthless degree that no longer distinguishes you from anyone.
There cunt, was that hard?
Maybe you need a fucking education
>>70102327
No offense, but it's hard to take you seriously when you can't even spell competence correctly. Education is not hereditary, so I'm not sure how being raised by a PhD makes your perspective any more worthwhile.
Yes, stupid people will continue to be stupid even if they're educated. But average people who are educated will tend to be far better at these things than an average person who is not. In all likelihood, our leafy friend is very much an average person.
>>70102581
>You're a small-minded cunt.
Wow, leaf, excellent argument, you sure shut me down.
>Uber would never replace taxis
Last I checked, there are still taxi services all across the country. There are like 4 of them in my city alone. The taxi company I drove for a few summers ago in my hometown is still standing as well.
>Don't be that stupid cunt who goes down in history books as the guy who thought that cars wouldn't replace horses.
Cars versus horses is not comparable in any way to a legitimate university education, legitimate scholarly research versus google searches and wikipedia. The fact that you think they have anything to do with each other speaks volumes about your lack of perspective on the issue.
when we have 100k engineers, they will compete for the 25k engineering jobs, next step McEngineer (already happening just look at IT)
Anyone that has worked a skilled job, and trained/worked with a fresh out of college guy, can tell you that newbie... never expected to have to work! They also will be a few years behind since the fields advance so quickly... however, the good ones will prevail. sadly i have seen more high school kids/college dropouts do better at so many jobs its almost sad. sad what 4 years of drinking and never working in your life can do to a person
>>70102848
You're being retarded. You're arguing that a system that's been under development for several centuries is currently more productive than one which potential hasn't even been breached yet.
You don't deserve to live.
>>70102776
if that degree doesnt help you its a shit degree m8
>>70101673
I have. It didn't really give me good arguments against "why not tax wall street they're rich hurrr"
The libtard came back at me with the THERE IS SOMETHING PROFOUNDLY WRONG bullshit about how you need to repay loans baka desu senpai
>>70102980
>a system
Google and Wikipedia are not "systems" for education. A university is. Google and Wikipedia are, at best, storehouses for basic information on a wide variety of subjects. They are not, and never were, meant to be used to actually learn about the issues they cover in any substantive way.
>>70102776
15%... on top of your 15% you already get taxed if you are poor, but not too poor... on top of the required bolamamacare 8% and the 10% reparations and the 20% jew tax. feel free to do what you want with your 32% of 20k year.
>>70103096
We'll see, nigger.
>>70102980
You're one of those uneducated leaf faggots that got laid off from the rigs recently aren't you? That guy has thoroughly blown you the fuck out, just leave.
>>70097246
>NOT AN ARGUMENT
>>70100062
Use your head when debating, we are not your personal adviser.
Learn to research cunt.
>>70103185
While we're at it, let's talk about University vs. Google in the real world. Universities aren't *just* here to teach. They also act as gatekeepers, in a sense. When you earn a degree, you have a credential which shows that you've met a certain standard put in place by an accredited organization. Even if you somehow, miraculously, managed to meet those standards on your own, you would have nothing to show for it. Why should anyone take you seriously when they can get someone with a legitimate credential instead?
>>70103364
Put some effort into your posts nigger. If the entire purpose of Bernieberg Sandersgoldstein's free shit program is to educate everyone so as to have a smarter society, then there's no cheaper and more efficient way of achieving this than by providing fast information to everyone, instead of throwing trillions of dollars into an outdated system from literally the 12th century.
As for your credentials argument, it misses the point completely since the expensive part of college isn't so much to maintain standards as it is to teach, pay the teachers and maintain the buildings, which can be avoided entirely with modern technology.
Fuck you.
>>70101109
Croats are bringing the bantz lately.
>>70103768
Then you're arguing for online classes, which is COMPLETELY different from "Google University". Online courses are a legitimate option, and very well may be the future of education. But that doesn't mean "Google University" is anywhere near the same level just because they're both online. When you argue against universities, you are also arguing against online classes. You just make yourself look like a dumbass trying to claim that google and wikipedia are the same as an actual education.
>>70096144
How do I justify letting banks charge a generation of people hundreds of thousands of Dollars each for no reason? How do I get people to be cucks for banks just like me?
>>70096144
It will just turn college into an extension of high school, as is already being done.
>>70103966
This is now ridiculous. Now you're saying that I "may very well be right" but you keep talking shit just because you're butthurt.
Nothing is free, someone will have to pick up the tab.
Describe inflation. More dollar bills; All bills are worth less.
More college degrees = college degrees are worth less.
>>70096144
It is a whole lot easier to indoctrinate the masses when they aren't paying ,$20k a year for college.
>>70103966
>>70104367
Canada is right. In the information age it is not only possible but it's also preferable to learn on your own, for free, and as thoroughly as you want to online. Add opposed to going to a dusty old building and listening to a sack of meat explain it. And bull fockin shit when you say there's info at college that isn't available online. If anything, there's info online that isn't at some colleges. Get rekt burger Bros
>>70104206
Average student loan debt is like $27,000.
No one's fault but their own if people borrow shitloads of money to pay top dollar for an expensive school instead of going two years at a community college then transferring to a state university.
Make better choices. If that's your issue with it, you're a retard because Bernie won't help. It's like:
>People are being crushed by $80,000 car loans for their BMWs
>Therefore, to solve the transportation issue, we need to give everyone a free bus pass!
>>70096144
>Bernie on free college. How do I prove to someone that free college is a bad idea ?
Have them talk to a typical black college student.
>>70102898
Bbbut if everyone goes to college there will be too many smart people and I'll feel dumb
Kill urself
>>70096144
Because what if they get worthless degrees like womens studies and not electrical engineering? Also it'd lower standards like common core.
>>70104805
>too many smart people
That's not how college works.
>>70101204
New Caledonia, the floating turd of the south pacific
check on google maps, East from Sydney
>>70104703
Right but what if the argument was ... let's privatize and start collecting tuition for high school. Let's do away with compulsory attendance, and allow schools in each community to set their own tuition. And let's allow banks to prey on kids who can't pay cash. We'll add another trillion dollars of student loan debt. It will be great. Because lol socialism is for faggots.
>>70096144
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-_r_t7AZU
>>70105039
That's how you sound desu
>>70096144
>free college
Means you just added an extra three years to mandatory education before going to work
Meaning the value of your degree drops every year that goes by
Meaning every tom dick and harry has one
Meaning even the most menial of work requires one despite you probably learning more on the job than studying for it
Means less productivity as more people take longer to enter the workforce
>>70096144
It isn't. A more educated nation as a whole is better than a partially educated nation. It would also help push liberal arts bullshit out of college because they'll be actual institutions before they're businesses.
Want proof? Compare overall quality if life in uneducated areas to educated areas. Free college is honestly the best path to go for everyone in the long run, even if it starts off bumpy.
>Much extension from high school
I don't see why this is bad
>>70096144
Aint nothing in life thats free.
>>70101395
>SQUIRREL
C'mon man, that's not a form of argument.
>>70101014
R A R E
A
R
E
>>70096144
Making taxpayers pay for whatever you want will only allow colleges to raise tuition even higher (as handing out loans to anybody helped them do that earlier).
The solution isn't handouts, it's regulation to keep tuition fees in check because they're totally ridiculous and unrelated with how much education actually costs.
>>70105273
Yeah just like they do now with k12
Are you lot really this dumb or is it an act?
What's happening in France?
>>70105039
>>70105072
That doesn't make any sense. High school and college are fundamentally different.
In high school, everyone learns essentially the same thing. We theoretically established a minimum standard of education that every person should have, and took steps to make sure that that was available to everyone.
Before WWII, a college degree was a special thing. Most people didn't have one. If you walked in to a business, the manager would have a degree, and everyone else wouldn't.
College is always different and extra. You can't spent 50% of the time in high school studying math, but that's what you do if you major in math in college. You can't spend 50% of your time in high school studying music, but that's what you do if you major in music in college.
If four more years of education is essential to be a functioning person in society, then we need to realize that, as it is now, all degrees aren't equal, decide what people need to learn, and provide it. Community Colleges are basically free after Pell Grants, because of this principle: they don't offer many advanced courses. You go there for general education requirements, then transfer those credits to another school where you spend two years studying only things for your major.
If you want the government to pay for something, you have to accept government control. That works for high school and that's what we do. That's also largely what we do for the first two years of college. The last two years are absolutely different. If you want something special and different, you have to pay for some of it.
>>70096144
Free college has some good aspects. In Switzerland we have free universities (you must only pay like 500CHF per year) but it's very "difficult" to be in.
Every one even the most poor have the chance to study but you must shown good results. For exemple you are already preselected around 10-11 years old on a prebachelor way. At your 15-16 you must do Gymnasium (highschool) and then only you can study in the university.
Our universities are good and in fact we haven't enough graduates even if it's free.
On another side, the government promotes handworking formations and it's well recognized in the society.
Lovin' those sweet cummies from uncle bernie? Don't be surprised when you go to piss and come to the realization that you're feeling the bern.
>>70105940
Man if only we were a small, white homogenous population.
>>70104753
>not everyone who takes the class will pass!!!
all the good teachers will fuck off/stop working hard to teach their students once every class gets filled with dindus and tumblrtots,so the schools will be forced to lower the testing standards because half the class fails and they're being called racist because of it.
Once that happens everyone will be passing and that degree will be worthless
>>70108075
This. Higher education is supposed to be elite and exclusive.
