Should college and university tuition be subsidised by taxpayer money? Education and knowledge is important.
>Tfw when graduating after 5 years with no debt
>free college and university
>foreigners included
Fortunately this faggotry ends soon
>The Finnish Parliament decided on Tuesday to impose tuition fees for non-European university-level students. A fee of at least 1500 euros will be charged per school year for those studying towards degrees in languages other than Finnish or Swedish, apparently beginning in August 2017. The fees will not be levied on doctoral students or researchers
>>69893593
>Education and knowledge is important.
That's why I think America needs to go back to the old fashioned way of doing things where employers simply trained their employees how to do something straight out of high-school.
I think it works a lot better than having students go into college for 4-6 years, where they learn a bunch of random stuff that isn't going to be all that useful for a job. I think we need a president that values the employer training the employee.
I don't want a president who calls our high schools useless and encourages companies to only hire college graduates and refuse to train people from high-school.
>>69893593
Not if the cost will still be 80000 per student, that's just destroying your country economy.
But 6000 per student is acceptable.
Working out great for public high school wouldn't you say!
>>69893651
This is true though, when colleges become free they are also worthless so you can't get a job with them, you have to study a master, and that is not free.
>>69893952
The president should force companies to train workers?
Free education must be a universal human right.
>>69894941
>universal human right.
No such thing.
>>69894090
retarded statement, make them more competitive and limit applications, which tends to happens since it is publicly funded and has a budget
The American way of doing shit, such as this, would be to adjust standards so that, not only does everyone get accepted, but everyone completes it.
Rending the degree even more useless than it already is.
>>69893952
Maybe you shouldn't teach bunch of unrelated shit then? Just saying. I'm doing my masters and in 5 years there hasn't been a module related to my major. Sure you could say having economics and law 101 in a software system degree is not related but it's those are important when dealing with shit.
It is free in the USA if your poor.
I go for free because I'm poor white trash.
Very few people know this.
>>69895308
>your
I don't doubt it.
>>69893593
re-eduction? no thanks.
> I hearby decree that anon anonson has been re-educated and surpassed the standard of the gulag university. death to capitalism long live the proletariat.
signed, Not karl Marx.
>Should college and university tuition be subsidised by taxpayer money? Education and knowledge is important.
College in America is free for foreigners and niggers. The only reason I'd want to go to college is to kill hundreds of people.
>>69895271
Colleges are a business, they teach what people buy. There are people willing to buy black studies, gender studies, and Star Wars studies classes in college- so there are people willing to sell these courses.
I see the older generation training the younger on the job as a vital part of what it means to be human. That's how it worked for every other generation in human history. It worked very well in the past, but companies refuse to do this today because of classism, greed, laziness, and entitlement.
Even Obama gave the line "Our high-schools are not enough. We need colleges to educate our youngsters so they can be job ready on day 1." I don't want a president who calls our high-schools useless and encourages companies to refuse to only hire college graduates.
>>69893593
It only has a chance of working well if the following conditions are met:
1. Useful degrees with employment prospects only. Preference to sectors with high demands for manpower. No womyns intersectional basket weaving studies bullshit.
2. Foreigners are ineligible for subsidies.
>>69895679
>College in America is free for foreigners and niggers.
Source?
I mean look at >>69895308
>I go for free because I'm poor white trash.
No, the only way I could see free college actually being feasible in anyway is if the Govt. starts new schools and adds them to the public system like with the elementary-high school education. No useless degrees for tax payer money to be wasted on, only legitimate fields of study that offer something to employers. no social or religious studies. Just degrees like engineering, environmental, economics etc you know what I mean? If I'm going to be paying money out of my paychecks, specially after I earned my education by my own hard work not a hand out, then I at least want the kids to be getting useful skills. Not learning about how men are dogs and whites are evil.
>>69893593
No. 80% of people are too dumb for college anyways. They should put more money in primary education.
A college degree for the most part is a waste. Unless you want to go into academia, engineering, or professional school, you'd be better served by just getting a job in the industry and learning real skills.
>>69893651
>how could anyone take their education seriously?
Because you'd flunk out retard.
Even if college was free you wouldn't be making any money in college unless also having a job, so you're not staying there indefinitely. If your grades are bad then no chance of a better job in the future. There's also literally nothing stopping from policy-makers making college education free only in the first 3 or 4 years, and in fact that would be sensible.
>college loan debt
>good incentive
Getting a stable career and income is already a good incentive.
Really the entire problem is a bit complicated especially since tuition is overpriced, but you're just parroting garbage.
>Should college and university tuition be subsidised by taxpayer money?
No. It shouldn't be subsidized, period.
>>69896508
your wrong a downy just got enrolled to East Stroudsburg University
http://www.whas11.com/news/nation/girl-with-down-syndrome-finds-out-shes-going-to-college/116154951
>>69896074
"Minorities" are given special enrollment privilege over everyone else. Even if those "minorities" come from other countries. Never mind that on a global scale non-hispanic whites are real minority.
To get a free ride in college as "poor white trash", you have to be in a really bad way. You have to be less than poor. Otherwise, the poor and the lower and lower middle-class enlist in the military for GI Bill.
>>69896988
*you're.
>>69895019
Perfect idea in a great meritocracy society. Instead if you tried to do that you'd see tons of whites rejected for being white and blacks, gays, lesbians, etc being accepted for that sole fact alone just to fail or drop outta the courses anyways.
>>69896583
>Because you'd flunk out retard
that's literately imposable.
>>69897046
Could you provide a source for this?
YES IT SHOULD BE FREE !
BUT
There should be a drastic selection with competitive exams.
You just fix the number of place allowed, no positive action bullshit and that's fine.
The thing will regulate by itself.
>>69897172
>I've never been to a college worth a shit
>I've forgotten that schools actually assign grades
I don't know what they do in the humanity departments, but you'd surely fail in any quantitative or biology field if you don't study.
And if humanity departments decide not to fail anyone, then their degrees would devalue even further than what they are already worth.
>>69897209
what is google, and the well known history of minority enrollment
not going to do your bitch work while you sit here and act like "Source?" is a fucking argument.
>>69897095
>you'd see tons of whites rejected for being white and blacks, gays, lesbians, etc being accepted for that
As opposed to affirmative action already having done that for years and years with the current system?
>sole fact alone just to fail or drop outta the courses anyways.
Schools already do that anyways. A dropout already gave them money so the administration ends up winning anyways.
>>69897070
thats all this fairy has. its a living spell check that prides its self on grammar checking...to bad every one one earth is better than it. see cuck, when you do shit like this it shows how weak you truly are.
dont forget to correct my writing homo thats the only way you can sleep at night.
>>69897172
You're literally retarded.
like double digit IQ retarded.
>>69897612
I'm asking for a source. It's not even an argument. You're claiming xyz, but you're not able to actually provide anything substantial to back your claims. Do you know how the burden of proof works?
>>69897473
>implying people who want free college are going for STEM degrees
>>69894941
Nothing in life is a right, dude.
Even our lives
>>69893593
Hahahhahahhah that nigger goes to my sxhool. He wears those whale clothes that frat boys eat up. His name is Jameson and we were in a judaic studies class together kek. Literal ape
>>69897897
Uh, yes, people who work with numbers do want to pay less for their education and training. Why would they not? They can see that paying nothing is better than paying tens of thousands. and not all of them can get total scholarship even if they're good.
>>69897879
I don't give a shit what you want you scum sucking weegie trash
>>69897800
the fuck you talking about? i was correcting my own mistake as it pertains to some anon calling out another on the fact that he is "uneducated" and it shows but please continue to but in before reading the thread as I must be some sort of redditor or over educated dingus without an argument
>>69893593
It definitely is a good idea to make them "free" (i.e. make the state pay for it), but only if your universities actually teach anything.
In USA high school does not teach you anything, so that is why you need a college degree to get any job at all, since that is where you learn that 2 plus 2 equals 4. The problem there isn't, as berncuck claims, "we le need le free universities."
The state paying for citizens that will create high quality wealth in the society does not sound like a bad idea to me. You just got to make sure the university actually teaches something substantial and is hard.
>>69893952
Japan is an example of this being taken too far.
Hard to switch jobs when they know it means retraining from ground up, your career advancement is locked to your company.
Possibly, but in the US at least there is a severe market bubble associated with college education atm which would need to be popped or deflated before subsidies could be applied in a responsible way.
>>69893593
college is already free if you bust your ass during your 4 years of publicly funded high school
>>69893593
Damn look at that privilege. I wish I had that privilege but I am White :(
>>69898125
>t.his feelings about the world
>inb4 (probably inafter) "BUT IF EVERYONE HAS A COLLEGE DEGREE THEN COLLEGE DEGREES WILL BE WORTHLESS"
Wrong. Firstly, as an individual, a college degree will be even more important to you because if everyone has a college degree then you, without one, will not be able to get any job at all. If everyone has a college degree it's even more important that you have one too. Instead of being able to get a 20% better salary because you have a degree versus the job you could get without a degree 100% of your salary will depend on your degree.
You won't earn as much money, but the money you do earn will only be possible because of your degree. So the worth of degrees goes up.
Secondly, on a broader scope, just because your degree doesn't make you any money doesn't mean there are no benefits to it. Even people without education benefit from living in a highly educated society. Poor people get welfare paid for out of the taxes levied on the rich (I'm talking about professionals, not the elites), and the rich are rich because of the skills that they acquired through education. More education = more high-skill capable workers = more capacity to do high-skill work. When capacity increases and there is sufficient demand then the society will make more wealth, even if not more money. Instead of you earning more the price of the things that you buy will fall. Like how once upon a time it used to cost a fortune to ship from China to America on a sail boat it now costs pennies per item thanks to the large workforce of skilled and educated people (tradespeople and professionals) who turn the wheels of the industrial, global economy that lets your Bad Dragon XXL horsecock get made in Bangladesh for 50 cents instead of Detroit for 50 dollars.
>>69898125
You have serious issues.
>>69898743
This is everything that's wrong with globalism and "universal human rights" summed up in a quick, easy to read format.
Education was made public, and it quickly became worthless. High school is forced by law, and has become nothing more than a social ticket. Doesn't matter if you're a complete retard, get your ticket to proceed. Otherwise a high school "education" is literally worthless.
To counter this you have higher education, but it has also become completely worthless. Degree inflation is very real. Having a few years of college should be an invaluable asset, but now it's not. It's become another social ticket. In order to be an asset you need to literally pursue education beyond higher education. Masters and PHD, extended training.
Public education is a meme. It doesn't matter that everyone is a slovenly retard, with no skills - as long as you have the "ticket", you're permitted entry into a regressive society.
>>69898743
>100% of your minimum wage salary at Starbucks will depend on you having a degree.
>you wont earn as much money
>degree will be devalued compared to what it is now.
Dude you just explained why degrees will be worthless
>>69900744
>muh social tickets
It's almost as if as society starts to leave behind less intellectually demanding forms of labour and expand capacity in more intellectually demanding labour a higher degree of competence is required from people who participate in labour overall.
If you think the complexity of the work done by the average person hasn't increased over the past 200 years, you're delusional.
>>69901051
If your degree is worthless then why can't you even get a job as a Starbucks minimum wageslave without it?
Clearly your degree has worth because you need it to compete with everyone else, spastic. If everyone has a degree then you _must_ have one too. Ergo, your degree has become even more important than it was before when you didn't need it to get a meme job at Starcucks.
Use your fucking brain.
>but i will earn less money off my degree
Sure, but the amount of money that you have that you needed your degree to acquire will increase. Your degree will become less profitable, but more necessary.
>>69898743
wrong the market will be flooded and having a college degree because its payed for by tax payer dollars will be waste of tax payer dollars
you avoided the obvious. that if every one has it its not even a factor in a employers decision making
>>69901658
>the market will be flooded
Correct
>and having a college degree because its payed for by tax payer dollars will be waste of tax payer dollars
Incorrect. For American labour to stay competitive then it has to be equal to the tasks that other labour can accomplish. America needs to stay as educated as the rest of the world or it will fall behind economically.
>that if every one has it its not even a factor in a employers decision making
Incorrect. If everyone in America except you has a degree do you actually think you have the same probability of being hired? Would you hire somebody with literally no schooling when you could hire 1000 other candidates who passed primary school and 900 who made it through highschool? Of course not, unless there were some exceptional circumstances (which is not the rule, hence "exceptional").
If everybody has a degree then you have to have one too. Free college increases the importance of a degree because if cost is not a factor then the only reason you wouldn't have one is if you were a dumbshit or a lazy slob, and that is why employers won't hire you.
>>69893593
>rainbow colored keyboard
>>69893593
Of course they should be, since it's a very obvious public good. But /pol/ doesn't want more education, because it would lead to less retardation and more people calling bullshit on conspiracy threads. /Pol needs stupid people.
>>69898574
I know this feeling, too bad Bern-outs didn't get it
>>69901365
Sure having a degree will become more important since you wont even be able to get the shittest of jobs without it but earning potential of a degree will drop. Meaning a degree will literally be WORTH LESS than it is now.
You're calling me a spastic yet you're missing this really simple point.
Why on earth would people push for a society where a degree is necessary for a minimum wage job when right now it's value is an entry level professional position? Do you even understand what you're saying?
>>69893651
There's a reason the us has over 20 schools in top 30 in the world. I'd be dozen to lower loan interest for education but the government can't have a hand in the curriculum
>>69895271
Tech school
>>69902172
>implying subsidized education is more effective than free market education
Explain to me why private colleges easily outrank state schools.
>>69902366
>a degree will literally be WORTH LESS than it is now.
Take the average salary of someone without a degree as being 40k in their first year, and the average salary of someone with a degree as being 55k in their first year. Ausbucks, of course.
Today, 28%~ of your salary is because of your degree, or 15k.
Now imagine a future where the average salary of someone without a degree is 0 dollars, and the average salary of someone with a degree is 40k in their first year.
100% of your salary is because of your degree, or 40k.
You are wrong in absolute and proportional terms, faggot.
college costs are waaayyyyyyyyyyyyy too high for this to work in the US. we already have a huge problem where the bachelor's degree is basically a minimum to get a job nowadays.
>>69901946
>Incorrect. For American labour to stay competitive then it has to be equal to the tasks that other labour can accomplish. America needs to stay as educated as the rest of the world or it will fall behind economically.
this assumes that in most tasks that education beyond four years renders substantially increased ability in the majority of instances. this also ignores key realities of outsourcing (namely, that foreign locales can give equivalent educations for less money due to lower costs of living/non-bloated school budgets).
>Would you hire somebody with literally no schooling when you could hire 1000 other candidates who passed primary school and 900 who made it through highschool? Of course not, unless there were some exceptional circumstances (which is not the rule, hence "exceptional").
and right now you might have 500 candidates with a bachelor's degree. let's say you make education "free" to the student by taxpayer funding it. then you make it easier for people to get more education. now rather than having all those people with bachelor's you have thousands more with bachelors and maybe 500 with master's degree. the job didn't change, but now you can pick the masters candidates as being more educated. anybody with a bachelor's degree gets fucked.
the push for free education also ignores certain issues in the US: not everybody is cut out for college, and we have a horrible dearth of tradesmen that make solid middle class incomes with less effort to learn them.
making college free would just be a huge blow to those who already have crushing student loan debt as it would make competition for positions more intense and drive down wages.
>>69901946
Again why would anyone want to make a degree necessary for minimum wage jobs? Seriously why would anyone want that? Do you really think people should have to go to school for an extra 4 years at the expense of the government to work at McDonalds or some shit.
>>69893593
Is it worth it to study abroad
>>69902713
>Take the average salary of someone without a degree as being 40k in their first year, and the average salary of someone with a degree as being 55k in their first year. Ausbucks, of course.
>Today, 28%~ of your salary is because of your degree, or 15k.
by absolute terms of a percentage, yes, if you now have to have a bachelor's degree to make any money, more of your money is dependent on having said degree.
but the main point is that you illustrate, average salary of $55K now for someone with a degree
>increase supply of people with degrees
>more people with said degree
>now people with degrees average salary 40K
do you see what he's saying? The degree used to net you a 55K average job. with increased supply of degrees it will depress wages.
>>69902810
>Again why would anyone want to make a degree necessary for minimum wage jobs?
Seriously this. Why does somebody need to spend four years in school and $80,000+ dollars (take four years at $20K/year cost which is pretty typical at state schools) to flip burgers or wait tables? What benefit does teaching them for four years have? Sure we can talk about the warm and fuzzies of them being more educated but from an economic perspective, what is the tangible benefit to society for having educated this person to that degree?
>>69893952
>college for 4-6 years, where they learn a bunch of random stuff
You are doing it wrong.
>companies ... refuse to train people from high-school.
There are many jobs that require university degrees for good reason. You aren't going to get good researchers, certain programmers or doctors out of post-high school company training.
Companies like IBM and Oracle are talking about T-shaped individuals. Everyone says that learning all the time is essential to any career now. There is no coasting and expecting companies to train physicists is unreasonable, hence university.
>>69902715
>this assumes that in most tasks that education beyond four years renders substantially increased ability in the majority of instances
It's certainly an assumption made by employers, who would probably be the best people to ask with regards to what makes for a productive employee.
>foreign locales can give equivalent educations for less money due to lower costs of living/non-bloated school budget
That must be why the pooinloos are shitting up my university, then, and paying 5 times as much as me for their degree.
> you have thousands more with bachelors and maybe 500 with master's degree. the job didn't change, but now you can pick the masters candidates as being more educated. anybody with a bachelor's degree gets fucked.
*anybody with less education gets outcompeted by people with more education.
What a shocker.
So we have clear evidence that you as an individual need to get a bachelor's degree, and the US as a society needs to get more education into its workforce.
>making college free would just be a huge blow to those who already have crushing student loan debt as it would make competition for positions more intense and drive down wages.
Student loan debt would (hopefully) be forgiven or paid off in a hypothetical scheme like this. Or just use the HECS-HELP system like Australia, with some jiggering to allow for US universities to have flexibility in their pricing.
>>69893593
I like how you imply a fallacious argument with only a question and a conclusion.
>>69893593
No.
If it becomes fax payer subsidized you end up paying for college for the rest of your life. You don't pay your share and stop. There is no benefit to graduating a year early. It gives students many more years without having to be fiscally responsible. It encourages laziness because why get a job and be taxed when you can just stay in school for a triple major in x-studies degrees and have others pay for it.
A system like this would only work if people went to school efficiently and got jobs of value after. In the us, that won't happen.
>>69903093
Where does this slope end? Why stop at a Bachelor's? Everyone should be able to get a free PhD, MD, or a JD. I mean, education is important!
>>69893593
Only for those with IQ's above 125. Education is counter productive to those too dumb to think critically (you know who you are). It just confuses them. The dumb masses need task based job training, not education.
>>69902366
>a degree will literally be WORTH LESS than it is now.
You can say the same about a high school diploma and it's still not true. Degrees, knowledge and specialization are not a zero-sum game.
>>69902713
>Earn 55k
>Now earn 40k
Somehow you think this is better?!?1 You're calling everyone wrong but don't understand basic math. I'll explain it to you 55k-40k = 15k
The value of a degree is worth 15k more per year in your example. Meaning the degree lost value or became worth less than before.
>>69902172
>>69902810
>why would anyone want to make a degree necessary for minimum wage jobs?
Because one day those minimum wage jobs are going to be done by robots, and all the real work will require 4 years of college. If the US isn't ahead of the curve then it will be surpassed by countries that are. What's true for the individual is true for the state - the nation with the more competitive workforce will outcompete the nation with the less competitive workforce. Education is a factor of competitiveness.
It means that when 10,000 new positions open up at the University of Memetics in 2018 they don't need to hire from India or China or Russia to fill them, because James at the local McDicks is a viable candidate. James has the capacity to work in a high-skill position. As the high-skill economy expands the US will not experience skills shortages and in fact will be able to send its citizens overseas to countries that weren't as prepared, increasing its influence globally and its trade surplus. Economics is a weapon.
>The degree used to net you a 55K average job. with increased supply of degrees it will depress wages.
Sure, but the growth of the high-skill economy will reduce costs. Much like the steamship brought down the price of tea and the plane brought down the price of an overseas holiday, the robot army and other benefits of the high-skill economy will bring down the price of food and cars and other shit. And _especially the price of energy_.
>Why does somebody need to spend four years in school and $80,000+ dollars (take four years at $20K/year cost which is pretty typical at state schools) to flip burgers or wait tables?
See above.
>>69893593
Only for useful courses or for people who know what they're studying. Why fund people who use it as an internet cafe?
>>69893593
No, free shit gets abused. If Bernie wins I'm going on welfare and will live on a campus and party for the rest of my life.
"free" public education is an eventuality if you want progress.
In the past there was no free elementary education, once it was added the entire nation gained literacy and more skills that all people take for granted now. This however made an elementary level education the standard and required to be a functioning adult.
In the past there was no public high school level education and once that was added it increased the overall intelligence of the entire nation. It also made high school degrees standard and required the be a functioning adult.
Now we have reached a point were we have worthless but nessesary high school degrees and bachelors are becoming worth less and less because they are becoming the new standard. In order to continue this evolution that has worked since the creation of public schools we must make bachelor level education standard. And guess what, the free market will move forward to accommodate this increased skill level by making a masters degree the new level of requirement to stand out. This is how elements of socialism and capitalism work together.
>>69903457
Tell me, what "skills" you learn in a women's studies major would be relevant in a high skilled job.
>>69903093
>It's certainly an assumption made by employers, who would probably be the best people to ask with regards to what makes for a productive employee.
my employer has basically told me that a master's degree only makes a difference for interns, people with a bachelors make $20/hr interning and people with masters degrees get $27. most jobs do not make more money with a master's degree though on salary, because it does not confer benefit. people in management can get some pay boost/preference for getting an MBA. essentially my employer will chip in some money for me to get a masters if I want but getting it would not merit any pay increase for me.
>That must be why the pooinloos are shitting up my university, then, and paying 5 times as much as me for their degree.
I have no experience with Australian universities. The only commentary that I'm going to make is that every Indian I encountered in college was rich, seriously rich, to the point where they could afford to pay out the ass for college in the US.
>*anybody with less education gets outcompeted by people with more education.
>What a shocker.
>So we have clear evidence that you as an individual need to get a bachelor's degree, and the US as a society needs to get more education into its workforce.
the employer doesn't pay directly, it's supply and demand. the job may not require a masters but if you have people with masters degrees they are theoretically not less qualified than people with lower degrees. if the supply exists and you have less choice than you can afford to pay people with more education the same amount as you used to pay for a lesser degree.
(Also, nice ad hominem, I have a Bachelor's degree already though).
Only STEM degrees.
Taxpayers should not pay for some bored housewife's social studies degree.
WORKED FOR EUROPE DESU SENPAITACHI
>>69903558
Now let's make a Master's free for everyone! Now let's make a PhD free for everyone! Why stop there? Add a level that requires another 10 years after a PhD, and make that free for everyone too! Now when people finally finish their education, they're 65 and ready to retire!
>>69903457
Your power level is showing. I'm glad you don't get a say in our election.
>>69903303
>Where does this slope end?
It doesn't. You always want your workforce to be more competitive. If everyone in the US had a PhD then the US would be staffing key positions in countries all over the world, raking in huge amounts of money and exerting incredible influence in foreign nations due to their reliance on US labour. And this is already the case. The only limit to how much education you should have is how much education you can pay for.
>>69903400
Wrong. In the first example the value of a degree is 15k. You could not have a degree and earn 40k. You degree is only netting you 15k a year.
In the second example your degree is netting you 40k a year.
>but overall I'm making 15k less in the second example
Sure, but the _value of your degree_ has gone up. Ergo, the dumbshit argument that free college makes college worthless is objectively wrong.
>but it will make us all poorer
No it won't. The 55k position will still exist. You will just have to try harder to get it.
>but I don't want to try harder
Then enjoy your 40k a year.
>>69903596
I imagine that a firm that provides counselling for female victims of domestic violence would probably like some kind of qualification like that. I don't know, I don't work in that field.
>>69903750
this desu.
>>69903296
Unless a cap was put in place to prevent abuse. Such as 2 years at a community college and 2 years at a state school. After that it's all on you.
That's a compromise I could work with that wouldn't destroy our economy.
I just knew too many lifetime students when I went to college who were living off their parents and loans into their 30s on their 9th year in school with no degree to think "free" college could ever work.
>>69893593
Yes it's a better investment in the future than say funding another round of conflict in the middle East, but we have a war machine to prop up here we can't just build weapons for no reason
>>69896583
Most schools don't flunk anyone out anymore. Why would they get rid of head count that justifies more government grants/loans/subsidies?
>>69903093
>the job didn't change, but now you can pick the masters candidates as being more educated. anybody with a bachelor's degree gets fucked.
>*anybody with less education gets outcompeted by people with more education.
This isn't true in the real job market. A lot of the Masters and PhDs that I know won't list there highest degree on a job application because it makes them less competitive.
Here's how. Say you have a PhD in Anthropology with an extreme specialization and book published but also have 15 years of corporate management experience. You are applying for a senior management position and doing so based on experience without an MBA. To a hiring manager, that PhD in Anthro isn't just a distraction, it's a lure that says that Anon won't be with the company long because she is going to head back into academia at some point. So the degree doesn't go on the resume, but maybe the book title does under publications.
>>69893593
I would settle for at least interest free student loans. My loans would be paid off by now if not for that fucking 5.25% shekel grab.
>>69903680
>bored housewife's social studies
All the sociologists I've met are ex-military and retired cops.
>>69903750
he kinda has a point here.
Education is nice and all but there's only so much shit you can learn before you begin to see diminishing returns.
Eventually you gotta translate that shit into a career.
>>69903875
If a college education is so valuable and great for everyone then why do so many people graduate from college and can't even pay their student loans?
>>69904101
>loans with no collateral should also have no interest
And this autism is what you get with a Canadian education
>>69893651
>>69904023
gee yeah I want to stay in college all my life
no retard the incentive is to be able to learn a skill that helps you do something with your life, you think that incentive just vanishes?
>>69903618
>my employer has basically told me that a master's degree only makes a difference for interns
Cool, but that's not a bachelor's degree. I may have misread your original post, but I was referring to a bachelor's degree there. There's not enough demand for master's degree education in this or the next economy. Eventually it will probably be required though, for the few people who actually still work.
>The only commentary that I'm going to make is that every Indian I encountered in college was rich, seriously rich, to the point where they could afford to pay out the ass for college in the US.
Exactly. India cannot provide equivalent education at a lower cost, which is why they're all in my fucking country. Same with gooks and chinks and all manner of disgusting nonwhites. Education is one of Australia's most lucrative exports.
>the employer doesn't pay directly, it's supply and demand. the job may not require a masters but if you have people with masters degrees they are theoretically not less qualified than people with lower degrees. if the supply exists and you have less choice than you can afford to pay people with more education the same amount as you used to pay for a lesser degree.
Not entirely sure what you're referring to here. I was simply saying that more education reliably outcompetes less education, which is why you as a hypothetical individual worker need a bachelor's degree to stay competitive, and why the US needs a more educated workforce to compete with the pooinloos and chinks. I didn't mean it as an insult.
>>69903755
>implying I'm not going to vote in commiefornia when i go over on holiday because lolnoIDrequiredtovote
>>69904298
Because they get worthless degrees and take out a lot of money in loans.
>>69893952
I agree with this, at least in part. I would like to see the bloat trimmed out from most degree programs. Like elective free degrees. No more 'take whatever at x year level just because'. Core classes only specific to your degree, 2.5 year duration instead of 4.
>>69903875
I'm pretty sure 99% of the population would rather earn 55k with things as they are now than earn less money or have to go through and pay for a masters for the same position. You are a retarded army of one on this. Have you ever met anyone irl?
>>69903618
An MBA may not warrant a raise with your current employer, but it might help make you more attractive to other employers. It should also put you in touch with a wide variety of people in your industry so if you wanted go start your own thing you would know people who can help get it done or people who can help you up into another organization. It's not all about what you learn, but who you meet and work with
>>69904428
So if college was made free then people would stop getting worthless degrees?
>>69904140
Either way, it make unproductive people feel productive.
>>69904298
>>69904428
Degrees don't always match market needs and the job market has been incredibly volatile since the late '90s.
>>69904502
No, they would still get worthless degrees.
>>69893593
>Be Harvard
>Have $37 Billion endowment
>Invested at 3% and divided amongst the 21000 students would pay $52,857.14 per year per student.
>Still charge students massive tuition of $100k+
>mfw
>>69904043
I understand that, but that's a problem of a lack of demand for high skill workers, which will rectify itself as the economy does more and more complex work. Having more capacity than you need is fine, if wasteful (like our doctor who doesn't list his PhD), but not having enough capacity will absolutely weaken the position of the state relative to other states.
>>69904298
Because college education doesn't guarantee you a ton of money and I've never said that it does.
>>69904101
>expecting interest free loan on a high risk loan with no collateral whatsoever
C A N A D A
A
N
A
D
A
>>69904516
>feel productive
>not be productive
What is it with the left and feelings being more important than reality?
>>69904023
Flat out simply not true. I go to a pretty cheap public school that's not prestigious by any means and anything less than a 2.5 GPA for more than 2 semesters and they kick you out. It was the same at my previous school.
>>69904438
Might I suggest an associates degree at your local community college? If 2 years is what you want, it exists at least in the States.
If college is worth it where do you recommend to major in? I never went because I was busy at the time but what do you guys recommend?
>>69893593
>"Free"
No, pay for your own shit you stupid faggot.
>>69902628
I went to an Ivy League school (not saying which) and the quality of education available at such places is phenomenally good. The trouble is that it's so expensive that education of that quality can't be provided for a whole country. Free-market education has the benefit of being less subject to government manipulation; state-funded education has the advantage of being equitable and beneficial for the nation. Good countries should have both in well developed forms. Currently the US is failing at the latter, mainly because too much has been spend on military waste since the years of George W. Bush.
>>69893593
I get paid to go to college, it's an incentive and that's it. As we speak i'll get £170 this week despite it being a holiday. It should instead be made more affordable and not free.
Just an FYI, you will get lots of freeloaders just roaming about colleges for years doing random shit.
If feminists think that there is a "rape culture" on college campuses now, just wait until all the undesirable people who aren't college material now have a way of attending college for free.
>>69904603
I meant as alternative to full on government paid tuition.
>>69904685
Anything you're interested in. Post secondary education is much easier if you actually enjoy what you're doing.
>>69904446
But in 50 years they'll regret their greed when Japan sends its battle mechs to rape them into submission with genetically engineered goo girls.
And I'm only being slightly sarcastic.
If the US does not have high-skill capacity its high-skill labour growth will be strangled. Other countries with better vision that have the capacity will overtake it, and the US will fall behind.
Stop conceiving of education as solely something you do for yourself. There's an element of that, but you have to consider the state as in a state of perpetual competition with all other states for power. Education can contribute to final victory.
>>69904937
College is affordable. It costs around $2000 a year at a community college, and $10000 a year at a good state school. Not everyone has the right to go to Harvard and Stanford.
>>69905125
How is a degree in women's studies going to help someone engineer mechs to fight Japan?
>>69904363
> wants to do something with his life
> unwilling to work for it, so everyone else must pay
>>69898724
Affirmative Action.
>>69904669
Community colleges do not offer the kind of degree programs that universities do. Universities have the better STEM prgrams but with the way they are currently structured, you spend a great of time and tuition of bloat courses that contribute nothing to your skill set in the field you wish to pursue.
>>69904597
Exactly.
My current plan is to finish my doctorate and start a consultancy. Teach a class occasionally, make cash, write. What I don't see happening is either working forever for a company that I don't own or being tenure track faculty.
>>69898724
>>69904616
They are simply out of touch with reality.
Does it sound cool and progressive on paper? Maybe. Will it actually work? Fuck no.
>>69903750
Yes what you described will likely happen in about 80 years I would imagine.
Public elementary education was in all states in the 1870s
High school education was the median by 1940 (Google high school movement)
College bachelors education might be the median by 2030 or so
Then yes in the year 2100 we would likely see a movement towards standard masters level education.
This is an obvious trend that is easy to visualize and see.
Why is public college education harder to accomplish? Because if we plan on using existing systems it will have to be implemented at the state or national level as opposed to the local level that schools are administrated at now. (It could be possible to build on top of this existing local system but I doubt it will be implemented this way)
This is an eventuality if you want future progress for a nation.
>>69905236
It's called transferring. Calculus is the exact same thing at a community college and Harvard.
>>69893593
Government spending never solves anything. We spend more on education than any other country, and have the worst quality education for it.
>>69905216
It's not, but it might help them counsel the woman who was beaten by her husband not to go back home to him in a deluded attempt to change him, so she doesn't get stabbed, so he doesn't go to jail, so he can continue his day job as an engineer building mechs to fight Japan.
I don't know.
If you want you can always just make only degrees that are "useful" eligible for state funding, but then you risk making a mistake by lacking vision and excluding something you shouldn't have, thus eliminating the advantages of a highly educated workforce because you lack education where you need it.
>>69905253
>My current plan is to finish my doctorate and start a consultancy
Absolutely God tier. I've got to finish my PhD still, but long-term I plan to run a business process analysis consultancy (basically look at how the business runs things and tell them where they can run it better). Consultant lyfe.
>didn't work hard in high school
>too stupid to get financial assistance
>hurrr free hurr free God I'm such a fucking retard
Every thread
>>69893651
This perfectly describes free tuition colleges in Brazil. Holly shit.
>>69893593
No. But prisons should be free to enter and leave. Anytime.
>>69896583
>There's also literally nothing stopping from policy-makers making college education free only in the first 3 or 4 years, and in fact that would be sensible.
How racist and sexist could you be, anon? Due to systemic and patriarchal oppression Jamal and Tammy need 6-8 years to pass. Plus their majors in womyn's studies and black shit are just as valid as hard science. Really, anon, I expected better.
>>69905236
You should push for better electives and core courses, then. I attend an R1 state school in the US and undergrads here have a range of great classes that very much relate to their degrees, whether in STEM or other fields.
What you are complaining about is often the student's fault in undergrad. They fail or skip a class sophomore or junior year and don't make it up in time to get into the right section that fall, then have to take some filler courses. Of course the university doesn't offer it in the spring, add a year. It's part of the game.
>>69904628
This is pretty standard.
>>69893651
I agree with free education but what Morty is saying is true, the sheer number of idiots going to college and spending it drinking and partying and dropping out is fucking huge, all wasting the tax payers money so they can party, its ridiculous half of my entire year dropped out just after the first year, think of how much these people waste collectively throughout the country every single year. Also college degrees are now nothing special and are just a basic requirement. From my side though, I have basically free college and Im about to pass my final year with a first class honours yet I'd never have this chance if not for free education, (even with the free education I'm still thousands in debt
>>69904231
Diminishing returns are a serious factor and I imagine past a masters education that would be a serious issue to consider.
However at this level, at the level we are at right now, an extra four years of education will not have diminishing returns as long as there is restrictions on majors.
>>69905308
>Being a progressive
Colleges spend at least two years teaching American kids things they should've learned in High School. We need comprehensive reform of the current K-12 system before we even THINK of handing a blank check to any colleges.
Otherwise we're going to continue this trend of dumbing down education, i.e. making the standards less rigorous to have more people pass, and the cancer will spread even further up the educational ladder (we're already seeing it with some Bachelor's holders being unprepared for work).
The thing about public education is that it has standards put on itself. We waste so much time doing retarded fucking bullshit that should at the very least be optional/possible to replace.
I had an argument with my religion teacher in highschool (way more progressive on Islam than the Muslims in my class agreed with) who argued that I need to be taught religion because it helps promote a peaceful world. Which I asked her to substantiate her claim and she yelled at me and told me to sit down (basically).
Can someone tell me how a knitting course wouldn't serve me much better than learning a significant amount of hocus pocus which will never have significant value? There's just no reason to know what the Quran says because the opinions of Muslims is what matters, just like any other participants in a democratic society.
There's so much shit I'd cut/replace and it'd allow people to specialize earlier or choose to have more spare time (lollygagging isn't illegal anymore, it's the only justification to waste people's time in school). We'd be so far ahead if we had more choice earlier. If you look at how school. Choice helps facilitate interest which is what's so sorely missing in most fields.
The situation pisses me off because it's so plainly obvious yet there's some magical fucking force that demands we do stupid shit. Like fucking Swedish classes. We have been writing essays and book reviews for atleast 5 years when you enter highschool. So why would we have to do that 2 more years?
But on the left vs right spectrum I think both extremes and the center is fine if there's freedom of choice. Just requires different cultures. Swedes would never handle a voluntarist society for instance.
>>69905359
This is delusional. The bell curve is a thing. CC students with 4.0 GPA's would likely fail most classes outright at an elite school simply because the competition is so much brighter.
>>69905731
We have already reached the point of diminishing returns at the high school level. It's nothing more than glorified day care at this point.
>>69905532
>>69905532
>I plan to run a business process analysis consultancy
>with no business experience.
Good luck with that. Hope you have friends in high places.
>>69905907
I've got friends in the Indonesian government, and one of the people I know has had a sit-down meeting with Obama.
No joke.
I'm a nobody, but I went to an expensive school and kept in contact with the people there.
>>69905801
Then they shouldn't be enrolling directly into Harvard or some other school in the first place.
>>69905801
It is like the star of your church league basketball team expecting to be able to walk-on with the Lakers.
>>69905842
So are you saying that we should get rid of public high school education?
Yes our K-12 needs significant improvement but you cannot possibly say that its implementation caused a net loss. The law of finishing returns start with the second implementation but you must weigh whether it was a net gain even with the diminished return.
You cannot possibly insinuate that implementing high schools had a net loss for the country.
>>69906096
Wtf? School here is NOT free, we pay for it through taxes.
In the end we have quite average universities, and late trend is that diploma means very little when searching for a job.
>>69905773
>comprehensive reform of the current K-12 system before we even THINK of handing a blank check to any colleges.
We've got a winner! A Dean told me "They're already ruined when they get to us."
>>69905778
I think free education can work, but only if the admission is throttled down to maybe 1/4 of the students currently studying. The rest are either too dumb to be there or will not get a degree in anything useful in the first place.
>>69906096
So that's just tuition? That's quite a bit. But we pay that in tax fairly quickly. It's just a different way of doing things.
Most people are too dumb for college anyway. Maybe 5% should go to college.
>>69894941
>I think I can force teachers into slavery
>>69905544
>take out $50,000+
>major in Women Studies
>OMG I NEED HALP WIT MUH LOANS
lel
>>69893593
XOR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_d4l8OuI-U
>>69906382
>throttled down to maybe 1/4 of the students currently studying
This kills the entire university system. Good job, Anon.
>>69906084
No, it's like saying the star of the Lakers can have some fun playing basketball with his buddies from church every once in a while. Someone capable of going to a top school in the first place would have no trouble at all going through community college to get basic prerequisites out of the way.
>>69893593
Of course it would be good but not if you have
>Africans
>soon-to-be-walled-off-people
>american women
>>69893593
I wonder if most students today realize that the professors and colleges don't actually give a single fuck about them, because it really isn't their job to teach them? Teaching is just a secondary part of what most professors do, their main job is to conduct research and publish papers for the university. Teaching weak crying millennials is on an incidental part of the job.
>>69906337
That's the point
>>69906383
Yes, it is. And I bet you like the way it's done.
>>69906382
There's an inherent economic problem with free education that people seem to ignore when discussing it. That is you're training people IN HOPE that they find a job.
Think of it like manufacturing. You have a factory that puts out product X, and you want to sell it to more people. You put the factory into high-gear and start pumping out shittons of X. Now, the price goes down because of the law of supply and demand.
Replace "X" with "College Grads", "Factories" with "Colleges", and "Price" with "Wages", and "Buyers" with "Employers".
The natural result of our current system is this.
>>69894941
Rights are God-given. You cannot declare something that you do not receive from God as a right.
Subsidized, sure. But not fully paid for.
Also, eliminate Pell grants. I went to a community college for two years (inb4 retard. I was just trying to save money) and I saw so many idiots spend their financial aid on the dumbest shit. One guy got a $500 tattoo, some other dude bought a snowboard and a season pass for a ski resort. They're not even embarrassed to admit they bought it with their Pell Grant. It's just the new norm.
>>69893593
Of course not. But the bigger problem is what is actually taught in universities, well, and throughout all the school system in all western countries. Anti-white ideals, feminism, and other poison is what's taught and that's bad. But besides that number one issue, yeah education should absolutely not be free, because then the dreg of society get educated too.
>>69906282
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be free high school. There are many great schools across the nation that challenge their students and lead them to good colleges and careers. I think people should be able to get a good education if they are willing to work hard for it. However, look at most high schools in the U.S. Students don't care at all about anything. They don't bother to listen to the teacher or do homework. It's just a waste of resources. As far as I'm concerned, everyone in the U.S should be able to read a newspaper and do basic algebra and geometry. That's good enough as a baseline for education. There's no use in continuing past that point if people are not interested.
>>69906382
Well there's admission. Students compete for university using something equivalent to your SAT's or highschool grades. Not everyone goes to university, there's specialization in highschool for stuff like plummer, electrician (notably high pay for what little education is needed), construction and nursing. Those three are regarded as practical educations. Which means they get a certain amount of school time practicing their craft for real. Outside of a few schools who have been abusing the system it works really well.
All it requires is for people to assess themselves, which their grades usually do for them.
But I agree we either need more nuanced options in university (so stupid kids can go rot in social sciences or whatever more cheaply) or some form of hardened restrictions. But in general university studies aren't that bad here. Except for theoretical physicists that go private rather than academia. Know a girl who did that, she's on site tech support. Hopefully she advances. But I'm not sure she has the drive.
Mostly explaining because I have no idea how highschool works in the US. sounds like it's more general education to me.
>>69906566
People of this caliber don't seem to have issues getting financial aid via scholarships and grants to be able to pay for just going to the elite school. The elite schools are snobby about accepting transfer credits at all for the reasons discussed here.
>>69906794
>bet you like the way it's done
I have my concerns but yes I see the point.
>>69893593
It's literally an investment in your country's future, so yes.
>>69895271
First year of computer network management here
>law 101
>economics
>language culture
>3 different modules that teach 11-12th grade physics
>single module about actual networks
NOT
A
SCAM
>>69907134
Ivy league schools do not offer any type of merit based financial aid or scholarships at all. There may be schools that are snobby in accepting transfers, but there are also many good public schools like the UC system that regularly accept many transfers.
>>69907127
After watching Skins I realize I don't understand how European education works at all myself. I know they certainly do some things a lot better. American education is less structured, offering too open ended an experience. Many if not most people just need to be told "this is what you are likely to excel at, go do it." We have way too many kids who get to their mid 20's-30's and still "don't know what they want to do." It is a myth that this even matters. Evaluate proficiency, evaluate job demand, go join society and help civilization advance. Follow your passion in your leisure time.
>>69893593
Maybe community college, you cant force a private uni to accept people for free, thats what scholarships are for.
>>69895735
For trades, high school is enough to go to a trade school or get into a job that will teach you from the ground up. For the other things that have more theoretical elements, it makes more sense to go to college and study it in more depth before you start doing it.
This is the real problem though. Trades often get overlooked or are shied away from these days with the terrible argument that a hard day's work in a labor job is a bad thing.
Pushing for more college after high school is fine, but we should also be offering to the youth that trades are a great alternative.
>>69893593
For white students only.
>>69907307
Hilarious.
I'm also CS and we had C programming a group project. Which was basically just get friends time, they prioritize getting friends a lot because it's the primary reason you have first year dropouts. A course on how to assess and write research papers + LaTeX. And two math courses one basically 4 weeks of highschool + a little bit more and another was analysis (calculus?) it's the prequel to multivariate analysis.
But we should have had economics somewhere honestly. Unless your parents teach you you can't pay a bill without self-study. And that means that none of us know stocks, insurance, loans or even basic tax law (which is a big thing here).
>>69907216
Would you care to share?
>filename
Really?
>>69898574
It's funny how liberals ignore this fact
I got 5k per semester just for having a 1500 sat (when it was still out of 1600)
>>69893881
This is the hilarious system that the UK has:
>University is free if you attend a Scottish university and you reside in Scotland
>Under EU rules, there can be no discrimination against member states regarding fees for education, so all other EU member state citizens also get free tuition
>Scottish universities charge fees for English and Welsh students because they don't get subsidies from the SNP-infested government
>EU doesn't recognise England/Scotland as separate member states
>Good job Scotland, your universities are racist against Englanders
>Nicola_sturgeon_conspiring__rubbing_hands.jpg
Meanwhile in England/Wales fees of £9k per year are charged. Most degrees are 3 years, combination Masters degrees are 4. With the net outflow of taxpayer money northwards to Scotland, we're effectively paying Scottish universities to discriminate against the English.
>>69908050
> And that means that none of us know stocks, insurance, loans or even basic tax law
Neither do I, instead I'm being thought on how to start my own business and how to prepare basic business plan as my final assignment for the module
thank god I'm not paying a single dime for this money laundering scheme
>>69907811
>>>69907127
> We have way too many kids who get to their mid 20's-30's and still "don't know what they want to do."
That's me right here, don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to do. Went though middle school and highschool half assing all my classes because I was told it doesn't mean anything . not to mention all those scholarships I had no idea about.
They really leave you clueless, And direction less with everything
>>69908060
Low income families are still hindered greatly (even at lower grades). Low income people here often have a significantly worse success rate in university. Basically they don't benefit as much as you'd think. And they're paying tax too. Now they marginal tax rate is rather high here so it's not a big deal but when you're from a background where you've been poor and likely haven't learnt as well as others you should probably get a job, work until you're 25, at which point you could pay some amount of money to get educated, you're likely more mature and know more about what you want. Also looking at classmates the older classmates are far more driven.
So I think a pay barrier (can't say a size, but US is too much) might encourage those who are on the lower edge of potentially graduating from University to take the job first path. If you look at second generation immigrants they're largely missing or drop out of university. They're a good example of poor people. Some make it. But with a mild pay barrier they could make it still, just a bit later. Maybe if the parents have faith they can pay.
A woman in my CS class considered 60k SEK alot. She was 27.
Like, that's not a lot of money, it's 2-3 summer jobs maybe. And even so with student loans sustaining oneself is not a problem. By the end of the year I was up 30k in savings and 30k expenses (iirc). It shows there's clearly problems with her that make her unfit. And it showed. She liked me and I helped her out but she just couldn't keep up with the math, had poor discipline etc. Basically started to just drown herself in alcohol and parties before year 3.
Just letting people run down a destructive path is not helpful. So it's not as simple as tax-paid education>self financed. Our education has no upfront cost and I think that's a problem. I should have lost like maybe 4k a year at least even on student loans. It's an amount you can easily finance if you drop down to part time. Even without student loans.
>>69893593
Why can't niggers keep their mouths close? Shut your ooga boonga big lips, Tyrone.
>>69904023
>Most schools don't flunk anyone out anymore
Wat?
