Does Socialism only works in a homogeneous society? If so, why?
>>69787066
Socialism doesn't fully work in a homogeneous or heterogeneous society.
Capitalism doesn't fully work in a homogeneous or heterogeneous society.
Take the best from both and implement government based upon it, with a strong system of checks and balances.
>>69787066
Socialism has always been a means of forced labor to transition into a capitalist system by which it can compete with other nations. Prove me wrong.
>>69787183
>Take the best from both
what is the best of socialism?
>>69787066
The best-known Socialist state, the Soviet Union, was as multicultural as it gets. The ethnic conflicts stared only after it imploded. Something to consider.
It is about willingness to contribute to the society, not amout homogenity. Capitalism forces you to be productive through compentition and the risk of unemployment. In the Soviet Union, you were guaranteed a minimum income regardless of productivity.
>>69788303
Social securities and a limited redistribution of wealth
>>69788393
The Soviet Union didn't work
The only successful implementation of socialism have been the Hutterites
It takes a small 100% willing population
>>69788518
>Social securities
Why is that more efficient than me directly giving the money I am paying into SS to my Grandfather?
>and a limited redistribution of wealth
Why is that more efficient than my Church helping a member that has fallen on hard times?
>>69787183
This.
Market must be as free as possible, but not at the expense of society as whole.
On the other hand, I believe strategic resources and industries must be under state control. For example defense sector.
>>69788550
The Soviets industrialized a huge backwater peasant nation in a very short amount time. Sure it was done with the labor of tens of thousands of slaves and the "reclaimed" wealth of the bourgeoisie but hey, you gotta crack a few eggs to make an omelette.
>>69788695
Because it is. Your questions are fucking retarded.
Funny how you people claim to be rooted in facts, but you ignore shit like atrocious healthcare in US. You pay the most in the world but you rank 31 or 34 in WHO list, I forgot which exactly.
It obviously doesn't work.
Another thing that doesn't work is your defense industry.
>>69787066
>>69788798
They collapsed
>>69787066
Socialism only works in a vacuum where everyone in the system believes that they must contribute to the greater good of the system to their full potential AND where everyone is properly allocated to the place where they can do the best work.
>>69788695
Not everyone in society has support from a church or their family.
>>69788867
>Because it is.
You didnt answer the question
>in the world but you rank 31 or 34 in WHO list
Why should I care about some stupid globalist ranking?
>>69788867
Rare flag
>>69789053
>Not everyone in society has support from a church or their family.
how is that my problem?
>>69788971
Soviet collapse is still studied widely and there is no consensus over why it happened.
Some argue that it was a purely political fuck-up.
In any case I'm no supporter of Soviet system, but to claim they achieved nothing is simply a lie.
>>69788206
That's how it worked in third world states where the ruling class had that exact intent. Lenin intended his state to pass through a managed capitalist stage (his new economic policy) while shedding feudalism. Mao intending to bring his country into the 21st century by shedding feudalistic practices and forcing modernism on a backward peasantry. The Vietnamese communists had nothing against capitalism per se, but they wanted to bring their country into the modern world and saw how other countries who developed did this (China/Russia) and how countries who failed at this did it (the Philippines), Cuba saw this from countries in Latin America and the Caribbean and in their country. There are exceptions to this, I.e. The Khmer Rouge who wanted to turn back the clock. They are the exception, I can't think of any other examples like them. In order to develop when competing against developed nations with heavily protected industries one must first protect, subsidize and nationalize industries in order to compete fairly. Countries who don't do this remain at the mercy of the more developed countries or their mainly centers of currency exchange and finance (Hong Kong).
Of course this is often bloody, as it was in France, England, the US, Japan as they passed into a developed stage. Sometimes this was exceptionally bloody and cost a lot of lives (France, and the US) and caused many more to flee, but it could have been said to be necessary.
>>69789104
I am just claiming their is nothing they did that I would emulate
>>69789094
It's not your problem. Society in general has a tendency to progress, and vocal majorities see other people not progressing with them and try and help them. It's why revolution occurs.
>>69788971
That's because as I said, Socialism serves to industrialize a nation. After industrialization, socialism becomes an inefficient bureaucracy and autonomy must be given to corporate entities to expand the state through commerce.
>>69789411
If they dont have any support groups they can hardly be seen as a threat to society
>>69789441
>Socialism serves to industrialize a nation.
OK but it is not necessary either
>>69787066
The people who call themselves socialists to model the Nordic system have no understanding of either the Nordic governments or socialism
>>69789520
What I'm saying is that a lack of support experienced by others activates human morals in some, which leads us to want them to progress as well. Revolution (not always violent) is instigated by the sympathetic powerful, which often stabilizes the duality between powerful and not-powerful.
>>69788206
If we were living in some perfect Adam Smith run world maybe, but in a world where highly developed and often subsidized industries in developed countries compete with a developing nation's industries on a local and global level it's like a title fight between a 7 foot super heavy weight and a 2 foot feather weight it doesn't give much shot to the featherweight unless the featherweight is given a suit of armor and a sword.
>>69789774
Well lt let all the nogunz leftist faggots try to rebel
it works in Cuba
inb4: embargos
yes
>>69789520
So bascily:
Him: Capitalism on its own means people who can't provide for themselves are removed from society and left behind/ die
You: But it's okay because I can support my family members if they want and the church can give them help too
Him: But a lot of people don't have those support networks
You: That's not my problem
Here's the fundamental problem. People who are well off don't want to support the weak, until they become weak themselves and then they want the well off to help support the weak.
This is where politics becomes philosophy, and philosophical questions are usually dead ends.
>does socialism work
no
>>69789898
Meant to quote:
>>69789587
>>69790219
>. People who are well off don't want to support the weak
What are you talking about
Groups like the Amish are fully capable of taking care of their own communities
>>69787066
it doesn't really work, but probably a lot better than it does in heterogeneous countries
why?
because since homogeneous societies share a common ancestor and history together they are given reason to work for their brothers and are taught shame to be leaches
>>69790338
>Collective society
In an individualist society like the USA at large, this is not common place. Families are fragmented, and many do not even have a family to speak of.
>>69790469
well that is a problem with modern degenerate society
>>69787183
This is a pretty lazy and meaningless position.
>>69787066
It only works in a retarded society, because then nobody is smart enough to see that while being in power, it is optimal to abuse one's position and to use government funds (i.e. literally everything) for oneself.
>>69790469
You realize the Amish (not Mennonites) are basically Christian Communists who developed out of Reformation era literal communists, whom Martin Luther wanted to massacre, because they wanted everything to be equal and destroy states. There are elders in these communities (basically a class system) but everything belongs to the community.
>>69787066
There never has been nor ever will be such thing as a "homogeneous society"
>>69788867
What's bad is our health care cverage
Those of us who have health care (like 80% of the country) have good health care
Stfu with this terrible meme
>>69790779
>Communists
Amish own their own property unlike the Hutterites
Also unlike marxists that are anti materialism
>>69790582
Free markets can't solve the problem of degenerate society. In fact, they lead to more degeneracy as people become more and more self centered and don't care about the needs of their family / social group. Equally, communism and too much socialism lead to degeneracy in the form of exploitation of the welfare system.
In the West's current model of hybrid Capitalism/welfare statism we have little bits of both, that's the price to pay for a swing far in one direction or another. Admittedly, National Socialism appeared to solve both of these problems.
>>69790779
I do, that's why I referred to the Amish as a collective group, which supported my argument.
>>69789053
Private charity organisations should replace the welfare state. Because they're actually responsible for outcomes, you can bet your ass they would get people back on their feet better than the faceless monstrosity of the state. Its all about incentives. Socialism is based on false ideas about human nature, and is shit with providing incentives. The tragedy of the commons.
>>69790996
>Free markets can't solve the problem of degenerate society
The government is the main cause of degeneracy
>. In fact, they lead to more degeneracy as people become more and more self centered and don't care about the needs of their family / social group.
Ok then why isnt that happening to the Amish?
In capitalism, the burgeoisie owns the means of production.
In socialism, the workers/the worker controlled government own the means of production.
Stop trying to mix them, please.
>>69790926
Communism isn't a one-size-fits-all definition. They display communistic tendencies, IO guess is a better way to put it.
North Korea is the most homogeneous society on earth. Socialism has done wonders.
>>69790219
I guess they would make the argument that if you have nothing in life and you dont make any helpful connections while in the mist of your poverty then you become a victim of your own laziness.
At some point you have to help yourself
>>69791156
Hello r.eddit!
>>69791162
Ok but modern leftism/marxism is materialistic unlike Christian versions of communism
This is a huge difference
>>69791132
>Amish
Like you said, they are a communal society, and can fall back on each other.
>Government causes degeneracy
Current government of US is causing degeneracy by selling out to rich organizations. Power is condensing, and as seen by the elections it is reaching a tipping point in both of the current parties, which will lead to revolution as I stated previously.
>>69791313
That´s a nice argument mate.
I surrender.
>>69791394
>are a communal society
No they are not
That is the Hutterites
>>69791591
Communal as in they form a community. All religions are communal in one way or another
Communal=/=Communist
>>69791165
IMO North Korea would have developed similar to China if there was any intent on bringing it back into the fold. Instead isolation and aggression has steered it towards a quasi religious feudal state that no longer even claims the mantle of socialism but rather Juche.
>>69788206
False, consider the Paris Commune, the Spanish revolution communes, and the Black Army of the Ukraine's communes. All non-state mass implementations of communism and collective ownership of the means of production.
Your history is false. Wake up
>>69791857
>Spanish revolution
Scoose me?
>>69788303
Police Departments
Fire Stations
Road Ways
>>69789703
>Nordic system
The ideas and implementation of socialism existed long before the Nords had their an-cap models. Marxist strains of socialism were inspired by their own discoveries, not the Nords, lol.
>>69791857
Those examples were all crushed in development phase, the later examples were anarchist mostly of collectivist variants (there is a distinction between collectivist and communist) the Paris commune was hard to see as a distinct communist society as it was so brief and had left Republican, Blanquists and mutualists in it's ranks.
The only place that has achieved anything close to socialism (and not be a totalitarian shithole) is the Basque region in Spain/France.
So really I contest the idea that socialism can work at all. It's not really something that has been proven.
It has always been the case that social hierarchies existed and there were always leaders and followers.
I don't think it would be feasible to have an economy where everyone has equal say. Heck even co-ops are still very much hierarchal.
>>69792084
That is not socialism
>>69792084
for the love of G-d. taxation, roads, and police are not socialism
>>69792156
https://i.imgur.com/7RC1r74.png
You´re welcome.
>>69792295
>https://i.imgur.com/7RC1r74.png
being this reddit
>>69791967
The people in the territory of "Spain" rose up against the Fascists trying to take the government from the elected socialists, colliqually known as the "Spanish revolution".
Amongst the war, anarchists and other radical socialists managed to institute communes numbering in the millions, without a state. Immediate takeover of the means of the production by the people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Revolution_of_1936
>>69788867
we pay the most in the world because we essentially subsidize the rest of the world's single payer. You're welcome for all the advancements and innovation.
http://www.ibtimes.com/how-us-subsidizes-cheap-drugs-europe-2112662
>>69792295
The quote is false. The Kibbutz in Israel failed on their own without any US meddling.
Also, if it cannot compete economically and otherwise with other systems it is not really feasible.
>>69792292
Yes, those are socialist policies.
>>69792500
I know that I´m fucking spanish.
But here the communists and anarchists aren´t called rebels,
>>69788867
Mountain nigger.
Daily reminder that mountain niggers were responsible for Yugoslav crypto-communists crashing the Yugo with no survivors.
>>69792573
They're the result of socialist policies, not direct socialism. You're both wrong.
>>69792573
No they are not
They are services
government != socialism
>>69792149
They weren't in a development phase, they already established working productive social models based on direct worker ownership of the means of production.
The Paris Commune was definitely a communist society as they had a direct election system of representatives based on consensus that could be recalled at any time.
>>69788695
You're retarded
>>69792149
Describe "development phase".
By some people's standards, the Soviet Union was still in a development phase even when they went full capitalist and after they rejected all socialist tendencies! lol
>>69792860
Answer the qustion
>>69792573
Man I guess everything is socialism
>>69787183
Pretty much this. There are examples already. What people understand of socialism is the complete abolition of the private ownership of means of production, basically communism. Socialism allows for private property and the private ownership of the means of productions, it just balance it out to make sure that people don't ended up being oppressed by wealth inequality.
This "balance" can go either way either create more disparity like in America, create rampant corruption like in Latin America or create working societies like mostly in europe. Though Europe have its own problems but mostly born on the rampant necessity (or brainwashing) to hate any value that could be considerate nationalist.
>>69792573
Those are in any 1st world country regardless of style of government.
>>69792882
>>69792768
>>69792500
>>69791857
Anarchists: 1
Pro-Capitalists/moderates/state socialists/general scum: 0
>>69787066
it doesn't work anywhere, as seen time and time again for it breeds inaction, equality(we aren't equal), does away with competition, promotes no corellation between your deeds and rewards
even totalitarian regime prior to tech allowing peer-to-peer communication failed miserably
communism, as in the last stage of socialism, would be possible only in post-scarcity society
post-scarcity society would have to maintain the population below unsustainable levels and monoculture to have everyone on board = NEVER unless we genocide everyone
>>69792609
Montenegro is responsible for my great grandfather emigrating to the USA?
I would thank him but also an ancestral homeland as it was known no longer exists.
>>69792573
>socialist policies
>nearly all privately operated in the US before the civil war
>>69793471
>quality of life before civil war
>quality of life after
checkmate
People are more likely to support people from their mental 'in group' aka race.
>>69794064
I would rather live in the 1800s than today
this is how it looks like in my country
>>69794251
Make him more of a jew for a more accurate representation.
>>69794215
Why?
>>69794251
Why do chefs have all the money in Poland?
>>69794444
freedom
Why would I rather live today?
>>69787066
Everything only works in a homogeneous society.
>>69787066
Socialism works best in countries like Europe where some other country, in this case the United States, foots a large part of the defense bill so that your country can spend its money on social programs instead of defense.
A similar example would be children, who can spend their money on candy and video games because the adults pay for their basic necessities of housing and food.
>>69787066
I would suggest to you that these countries, which have the largest representation of socialists in their legislatures are very homogeneous, but socialism does not work there.
>>69794503
I don't know, why wouldn't you rather live today? What's different about now as opposed to the 1800s that would want you to live 200 years ago?
>>69788393
> The ethnic conflicts stared only after it imploded. Something to consider.
No it is about power of the state.
>The ethnic conflicts stared only after it imploded. Something to consider.
Exactly. When soviet state power stomped (including such measure as relocation of entire nations) on them nations were under control. Power went away same soviet people started wars against each other.
>>69794700
I already said freedom
>>69794251
>nie zobaczysz tego podpisu na bebzol.com
>>69794589
That's a pretty interesting perception. In a way though, couldn't you make an argument that the military itself is somewhat of a socialist arrangement? It provides jobs to people proportional (if the money is not wasted) to government spending.
>>69790219
Rich people give plenty to charity, bro. There are plenty of bleeding heart billionaire philanthropists running around.
>>69790996
>Free markets can't solve the problem of degenerate society. I
State sponsored degeneration is much better of course kek. Especially when it's promoted under threat of force and there is no escape from it.
>>69790841
Its a relative term, dumbass. Unless you think Japan is somehow less homogeneous than Brazil?
>>69787066
In a homogenous and nationalistic society, and it only works as long as you have excess wealth to spend, either accumulated beforehand or obtained from outside of the country in ways which can be only justly described as plunder.
>>69787183
So... Scandinavia.
>>69794805
What, specifically is more free, is what I am saying.
>>69788903
Love this image. I think it's grown since the last time I saw it.
Of course, the only replies are usually people bitching about how non authoritarian socialism "just CAN'T work" according to their infallible theories, or are just shitposters posting le ebin helicopter rides meme.
>>69788971
Every society has collapsed.
>>69795088
In other words it is shit. Wealth redistribution is theft and bribery, nothing more, nothing less. Socialists are just moralising retards with Robin Hood complexes. This forces them to villainise the successful, in much the same way that SJWs like to villainise 'white privilege' and other such nonsense. Anti-meritocratic drivel that belongs in the dustbin of history.
>>69787066
No, white society.
Because whites evolved in the cold climates of the north where you either formed a society or died alone.
>>69791313
Ebin
>>69792513
Kibbutzim have been in Israel since long before the USA was involved.
>>69788550
Cuba has been pretty successful. Poor as shit, sure, but compared to their neighbors they're doing extremely well in terms of criminality, life expectancy, education, nutrition, corruption, and homelessness. It's really hard to claim Cuba isn't "successful", even if liberals get butthurt about actually existing socialism.
>>69788695
>Why is that more efficient than my Church helping a member that has fallen on hard times?
Poor people tend to go to churches in poor communities, which have less resources.
>>69794589
The UK, Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Norway, France, Iceland, Ireland, etc haven't been in danger for 25 years.
>>69796406
How do you know whether this is because of socialism, or despite it?
>>69796406
This.
>inb4 right wing propaganda gets posted
Cuba is doing infinitely better than Haiti or El Salvador, both places that the U.S. "saved" from communism by funding brutal dictatorships.
>>69794589
The butthurt is strong in this one. Europe is not under threat, it spends enough money on defense on its own, regardless of what Obongo says.
>Inb4 Russia stronk meme
>>69796693
Because Cuba was shit under capitalism?
Biggest problem in these discussions are people (for example Americans) who can't understand that what did the job for them won't necessarily apply to others.
For fucks sake, America exists 2 centuries, which is nothing, and they had an empty continent filled with resources.
Extremist ideologies generally don't work for long. It's natural human tendency to be moderate, to be balanced.
>>69794589
>>69792511
Oh and just to shoot down these idiotic arguments.
US spends 700 million $ on European defense (now increased to 4 billion $).
No, your healthcare isn't expensive because you do all the shit for everyone else, it's expensive because your healthcare system is shit.
But it seems facts aren't facts if they shit on ''free market will fix it'' mantra.
Socialism doesn't work. Period.
>>69795518
gun laws
labor laws
lower taxes
>>69787066
Yes, I believe more people are willing to work and pay their taxes it goes to their own "tribe". If the society is heterogeneous people are prone to become leeches because they don't care as much about another group. I'm against socialism in all forms, but I will admit that It works way better in a homogeneous society.
>>69797151
What is considered moderate and extreme at a given time period is relative to the prevailing norms and beliefs. In other words, completely arbitrary.
Cuba being shit under Batista is hardly an indictment against property rights, my friend. But hey lets call it 'capitalism', as if its some cruel artifice of the dreaded 'bourgeoisie'. Stupid proles won't notice!
Socialism only works for a short period of time, because it depends on producers so that their resources can be 'redistributed'. Once you run out of capitalists creating resources to redistribute, socialism ends.
>>69787066
In socialism you have a big amount of state intervention in the economy, that means that only a handful of elected politicians/bureaucrats decide where a big chunk of a nation's production (50% of GDP in europe) goes to. So if everyone is essentialy the same, having the same desires/goals and liking the same things, such as in a homogenous society you can aply socialism and the decisions wouldn't be genocide-level. If you have 10% nigger in your country and a bunch of other minorities then the white politicians will make decisions with your money that you yourself wouldn't make, therefore why socialism is bad folks.
>>69787066
>Socialism only works in a homogeneous society
Socialism has never ever worked. It's always paid for by mass killings or mass debt.
>>69798124
Great post, I fully agree. Seems like socialists think that raising taxes won't have any effect on the producers of society and that they will just continue working like slaves when their incentive to work goes away. Production will steadily decrease until socialism have no resources left, kind of like how a parasite kills its host.
>>69798242
And even in those countries where it 'works', its only benefiting the welfare parasites, the crony capitalists, and their pet politicians. Its quite literally a conman ideology.
>>69795891
It's natural however. Any sufficiently rich society seems to develop a death wish heralded with the sprouting of socialist ideas amongst it's citizens. It is literally a mass suicide with the majority of the people involved committing it willingly.
>>69790592
Yup, it's a fallacy actually... Argumentum ad temperatum, or argument to moderation.
I'm believe in anarcho-capitalism, or more specifically, a society based on overlapping commonlaw systems (polycentric law).
Basically I believe FULL CAPITALISM is the answer, I don't fall for that typical "there needs to be a balance" fallacious thinking. That kind of thinking is how bernie supporters came up with the terms "Social democracy" and "Democratic socialism".
www.armstrongeconomics.com
www.mises.org
www.reason.com
www.fee.org
In b4 "omg this lolbertarian is falling for the globalist propaganda", Trump is going to save us from Chyna!!!!!
>>69800048
This mass suicide phenomenon is what I believe to be the essence of degeneracy. I don't subscribe to fatalism, however. Its pretty hard, after all, to prescribe a cure, when the disease isn't even diagnosed. If we can understand what is happening, we can do something about it.
>>69800232
I actually tend to incline toward this as well. However valued liberty is, I think Trump is best solution to the more immediate problem vis-a-vis socialism and reversing the trend of white genocide, re. the 'cultural suicide' mentioned above.
>>69800232
>typical "there needs to be a balance" fallacious thinking
I don't fall for that "we need to go extreme in one direction" fallacious thinking.
You're like a communist.
>>69796693
Cuba tends to punch above its weight in terms of things like PPP and QLI and HDI and other such indexes and economic measures. It's obviously not the best place to live and it is still a very poor country, but compared to its neighbors Cuba has done very well for itself.
How do you explain these things? Luck?
>>69801196
Implying the naive assumption that because one extreme is bad the other must be bad too.
>>69801196
Also how the hell do you know there isn't something beyond what I believe in, maybe a society based on polycentric law IS the middle ground.
>>69788303
Social Security for disabled and very old people. Unemployment insurance for people who lost their jobs. Temporary injury insurance. Food stamps and welfare. Wic program.
All great socialist programs which we would think of them even better if it wasn't so manipulated and corrupted.
>>69801307
>My a priori system is justified, because middle ground fallacy
Are you able to do anything other than regurgitate Stefan Molyneux talking points?
>>69801034
On a fundamental & philosophical level it's collectivism vs. individualism. Collectivism is the world view of control freaks, there are no redeeming qualities to it.
Unfortunately Trump is still a collectivist because he believes in trade protectionism, eminent domain, and using the state to impose certain values on society.
Most of 4chan is collectivist (control freaks), they're as bad as reddit but they don't see how.
The whole open border aspect of libertarianism is misunderstood IMO, many prominent libertarians would agree that we simply couldn't open the borders under current circumstances. Open borders are more of a final step after a transition towards individualist society, as once you make the society strong enough state borders no longer become necessary thanks to social ostracism.
Basically if America transitioned to individualism, once the transition was complete the society & culture would stay intact naturally as ironically assimilation would be an inherent necessity to join an individualist society.
>>69801749
Are you able to actually say anything substantive.
>>69788695
That's the way it was in America before the 1940s and it wasn't working.
Old people who didn't have children or grandchildren who could support them were starving to death on the streets. Churches didn't have enough resources to take care of all the poor, hungry, and homeless. So they made up social security and welfare program that could reach everyone in the USA
>>69801296
I have no idea, honestly. I know next to nothing about societies in the Caribbean so I won't even speculate.
>>69801922
In a somewhat collectivist society, the weak, elderly, disabled etc are cared for by the group. Rabid individualism is toxic and leads to excessive selfishness.
>>69802073
Nah, the State is directly responsible for the Great Depression for starters. WWI and WWII were ultimately a result of two global sovereign debt crisis.
The state intervenes in the natural order of things in the naive belief that the economy is something to be "designed" or "controlled". Their actions introduce volatility wiping out everyone's savings and income in the process.
www.armstrongeconomics.com
>>69788903
Didn't feel the need to add Hitler to it I see.
>>69801296
The only reason Cuba is doing so well is because there population hasn't grown like the rest of the other countries. If population stagnated and business slowly grows then everyone in that country wins. But have you thought to why there population growth is so low?
Imo a lot of Cubans run to America. If they set foot in America soil they automatically get a green card and the border patrol can't stop Cubans from illegally crossing the boarder. USA welcome them
>>69802409
If anything is "rabidly selfish" it's the idea that a stranger halfway across the country should take care of your parents rather than you.
>>69802573
What's your point?
>>69802669
Many people lack families, or are fragmented from their families.
>>69802741
That if you don't believe in an emergence-based society (emergence is literally how all other complex systems in this universe function), then you're simply lost.
Polycentric law, or GTFO.
>>69787066
It only works in small groups. You could probably get by with a socialist society if you lived in a group of 35 or so people, and with the threat of ostracism in a situation where being part of the group is essential to survival. 320,000,000, not so much.
>>69802620
>A lot of people leave Cuba= BLOODY SOCIALISM!
>A lot of people leave Mexico= Meh 3rd world country they need more capitalism.
Get your shit together.
>>69803154
The key difference being that those 35 people are in voluntary association with one another. That is literally the only important difference.
>>69802907
If they are fragmented, they likely did something to deserve such a thing. If you act in a way that turns people away from you, you must face the consequences.
Regardless, charity exists. People without anyone to rely on still have their fellow countrymen. Maybe not many, but some people do want to help others, some are altruists. Those are the people who help out those in need; if they ultimately are unable to get any help in a rich, capitalistic and individualist society, they either don't want it or are undeserving of it.
>>69796428
these communities don't exist a vacuum dude.
>>69787066
Socialsim kinda fucks everyone
>>69804085
> If they are fragmented, they likely did something to deserve such a thing. If you act in a way that turns people away from you, you must face the consequences.
Exactly, this is what is called universal law which supersedes man's law. It's why collectivism of any kind to any degree will always end in disaster, it is an attempt to engineer your way out of natural selection.
We all have the power to overcome circumstances and change our own life. Our own lives were the one thing we were meant to have power over.
>>69788903
>Libertarian Socialism
>>69787183
>le middle ground fallacy
great meme.
>>69802974
Who said I didn't. I believe in Polycentric law and in freedom for reform
>>69804788
But you were literally just arguing in favor of social security weren't you?
>>69804761
See... there are based leafs. I'm from Alberta though, so I'm basically a burger.
Socialism only works if there is a culture of collectivism, like with eastern culture with their traditions on sharing wealth among family, friends, and acquaintances. Once it got institutionalized by government people started to game the system causing a huge amount of distrust of people outside their circle. Which is like in Canada now, everyone is pushing for greater socialism because Canadians aren't living up to that image because government made Canadians worse off because of socialism and are privately divided against each other to point to the other side as waste in the system.
>>69805951
No fellow leaf. First of all eastern culture is currently a shit show so it's a joke to use them as an example.
Second of all with your first statement you are saying collectivism only works if most people in the society believe in it. Well guess what that's literally the only way any society has become collectivist, and it's never worked.
www.armstrongeconomics.com
>>69804957
The programs are needed or you have high rates of starvation. Explain how your thoughts combat that
>>69807688
>The programs are needed or you have high rates of starvation.
Starvation? Seriously? The only time Americans were ever at risk of starvation was during the great depression, and like I said that event was a direct result of state interventions.
>>69790219
The thing is government also leaves people behind to die, even while spending half the country's GDP. It's never enough.
