Why hasn't an alt-left solidified like the alt-right has?
I'm very much a left wing liberal - I'm all for workers having a voice in their organizations, there being a living minimum wage, free or cheap healthcare, am for equal rights for people regardless or race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
At the same time, I think today's feminism is retarded (as is the entire MRA movement), I HATE the idea of "safe spaces" and PC language, I think when people diagnose themselves with anything from "gender fluid" to autistic and expect everyone to respect their bullshit identity it's retarded, and I think ideologies from Salafi Islam to Pentecostalism to post-modern feminism are fucking idiotic and deserve to be called out publicly for it.
The alt-right is a conglomeration of monarchists, neofascists, right wing libertarians, paleoconservatives, nationalists, tribalists, etc.
In a very similar way, I see a left wing but anti-sjw way of thinking shared between classical liberals, left wing anarchists, libertarian socialists, primitivists, cypherpunks, and others.
So, why isn't there an alt-left?
Some fag is attempting this
http://www.counter-currents.com/2016/01/introducing-the-alt-left/
http://altleft.com/
I welcome such an honorable opposition.
That's because Liberals don't think there's a problem with the mainstream left.
This pic is Liberals. This is what you are.
Your people are fucking you up the ass and doing incredibly stupid shit and you're not speaking out against it.
When we on the right speak out against the mainstream right we are called nazis and fascists. That's why we have alt-right.
When you speak out against liberalism you get called a right winger and a racist. That's why you need an alt-left.
>>69557013
stealthy r a r e
a
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e
>>69557013
The Alt-Left is in power right now
>>69557013
"progressive" is the alt-left.
liberals are the regular left.
although for discussions sake on /pol/, we mostly refer to progressives as liberals.
The Left and all its brands of retardation are the establishment right now. Therefore there's no need for any alternatives
>>69557013
you're too divided amongst yourselves, for many reasons. "alt-left" types tend to play oppression olympics to some degree, and also have trouble accepting differences after heated debates involving political beliefs.
Because they're extremely fucking stupid and LOVE living in poverty and want everyone else around them to be poor.
Their theories are something a 8 year old would come up with.
You wouldnt believe how divided those fucktards are, I dont even, for sake of sanity, wanna expand the subject but believe me those retards can argue about most insignificant bullshit
>>69557013
>I think today's feminism is retarded (as is the entire MRA movement), I HATE the idea of "safe spaces" and PC language, I think when people diagnose themselves with anything from "gender fluid" to autistic and expect everyone to respect their bullshit identity it's retarded, and I think ideologies from Salafi Islam to Pentecostalism to post-modern feminism are fucking idiotic and deserve to be called out publicly for it.
how is the alt-left supposedly going to call out their bull shit? by ignoring it like you've been doing till now? there's no such thing as alt-left because the vast majority of liberals is full-left, you need people to make an ideology known, it doesn't magically become mainstream.
>>69557013
Sounds a lot like leninist communism. All the shit economics of communism and all the ideological authoritarianism of fascism. So your movement has been tried, and it resulted in tens of millions of innocents being slaughtered.
Thats why it isnt a thing anymore
What you are describing is an old-timey left, in contrast to modern-day progressive left.
I think lots of older people who have always been on the (non-activist) left share your viewpoint.
>>69557013
Well, I am a Commie that strongly oppose mass-immigration. And think feminism, anti-racism etc. is secondary to implementing a socialist system Not that I am not in favour of equal rights, but rich western women can start whining when slave workers are freed from their factories in Asia, and the Slave miners are freed in Africa.
Also I do think that Africans have genetically lower IQ than Europeans. Without being a supremacist though.
>>69557824
>Well, I am a Commie that strongly oppose mass-immigration.
But in real life, most do not. So when they rise to power, your ideas don't matter, you will not be calling those shots. And therefore your welfare society collapses because your comrades invite the entire 3rd world.
Brits are so shit tier.
ALL leftists need to fucking die.
>>69557909
I am Norwegian. I have British IP for reasons unknown.
There is a big difference between humanitarian left and rational left my friend :) The "Humanitarians" will leave the revolution before it even begin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IZCcUBBCd0
SJWs trivialise the work and opinions of everyone on the left. On /pol/, because most people here are retarded Americans, everyone in the spectrum of left leaning politics is called a "liberal". Liberals and SJWs are both groups of people who believe that the smallest concessions will grant real change. They believe that capitalism is compatible with the platitudes they spout. They're not proper leftists.
>>69557013
>this whole thread
kill all commies
>>69559181
>thats not myyyy liberalism
>my special brand of liberalism doesnt destroy western society, i promise!
>>69559181
Leftists in general are brain damaged and deserve to be boiled to death in excrement.
>>69559231
>>69560665
Capitalist shills*
>>69560692
that nigga dead son
>>69560845
>s-stop shilling for freedom
>w-why don't you want to be a poor socialist like me
Maybe because I'm not a poor lazy fuck and I'm going to retire in 4 years?
>>69559312
You're so retarded you're applying the American political spectrum to Europe. In America, Bernie Sanders is seen as a raving Che Guevara type communist. In Europe, he would be just another left leaning politician.
>>69561073
His body is dead, his spirit lives :)
>Capitalism = freedom
>Money = happiness
When you realize that the reason for why you are rich, is because of slaves in the 3. world. Wake up sheep, and fight for a society where you are not a rat that feeds of the dying.
>Maybe because I'm not a poor lazy fuck
I earn about 150000$ a year. Money is not everything rat.
>>69557013
>So, why isn't there an alt-left?
there is no alt-left because the main-left is still following leftie(retarded) principles
there is nothing for the alt-left to rebel against, the main-left hasn't become rightwing
>>69557620
>Hey, let's set up a society of workers, soldiers, peasants and intellectuals
Bill, you can be the worker and manufacture all our goods
Jim, you can be the soldier and get your leg blown off fighting all our wars
Ted, you can be the peasant and supply all our food
and what will you do?
>Oh, I will be the intellectual and sit all day on my arse telling you all what to do
Some animals are more equal than others
google Why Johnny Can't Think pdf or check 4+4chan /pdfs/
>>69561329
>In Europe, he would be just another left leaning politician.
Yes, that's why europe sucks so much.
>>69562062
>his spirit lives :)
no it's not lmao, literally everyone hates him
>>Capitalism = freedom
Fact of reality.
> is because of slaves in the 3. world.
I don't know how many times I have to post pic related for you retards to get it through your head.
Every country in the world once had living standards on par with the "third world".
A ton of them have got out of it and others are in the process of getting out of it. All thanks to capitalism, the greatest creator of wealth for the poor ever seen.
Poverty is rapidly declining worldwide, especially in countries that embraced free markets.
>Wake up sheep
kek, the autism
>I earn about 150000$ a year.
You're a socialist, I HIGHLY doubt that.
>>69562803
I am Norwegian, the richest voters (based on average income) vote leftist ;) Also we have the highest IQ.
>the greatest creator of wealth for the poor ever seen.
You are making me laugh :) What is Stalinism?
Nvm you are too brainwashed. I hope you wake up one day.
>>69563210
>I am Norwegian, the richest voters (based on average income) vote leftist
Of course they do lmao,
Your country is full of degenerate brain damaged leftists.
You won't have a country within the next 10-20 years thanks to immigrants leeching off your failure of a welfare system.
lmao
>Also we have the highest IQ.
lmao no you don't
>You are making me laugh
Just posted the evidence.
The burden of proof is on you my friend.
:^))))))
>>69563623
Your proof = technological advancement.
They actually tested the IQ of a group of people and asked for their party affiliation. Nr. 1 Red Party Nr. 2 Socialist Left Party 3. Liberal (centrist) 4. Conservative.
Burden of proof: Soviet Union from being 70-100 years behind the west in terms of industrialization became the 2. industrial power in record time. The life expectancy even surpassed the one of the US at the end of Stalin's rule.
Our welfare system is a failure? Lol, you could say that it will fail with mass immigration, but you say that it is a failure - it works just fine today.
Reminder that mass-immigration is because of Capitalism. Your overlords push immigrants in Western countries to push the wages lower.
>>69564507
Also they found that the Anti-Welfare/Taxation party voters have an IQ between 80-90 :)
>>69557013
But what was unofficially the alt left became what we know as the alt right.
>>69564507
Technological advancement has little to do with it.
The countries that embraced free markets or even somewhat free markets are much much better off than they were, they grew their economy, build a fuckload of factories and their poor and middle class thrived.
The countries doing poorly are the ones that embraced socialism.
lmao the evidence is right in front of your face yet you refuse to see it.
>They actually tested the IQ of a group of people and asked for their party affiliation.
LMAO what does this have to do with anything.
I'm a libertarian nationalist kek
>The life expectancy even surpassed the one of the US
>it even MAYBE maybe did one year because the soviet government told me so maybe
lmao my god you're beyond pathetic
Everyone can see the results of socialism in Cuba and Venezuela.
You people need to be killed.
>it works just fine today.
>the NHS works just fine
AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>Reminder that mass-immigration is because of Capitalism.
Nope, that's shitty cuck governments.
Look I'm sorry you were cursed with low IQ and the inibility to reason but please don't force your stupidity on others.
>>69557013
Because the left is no longer the counterculture.
>>69564507
Irony is a 12 year old that unironically supports stalin calling others dumb.
This is is beyond fucking hilarious.
If you look at all anarchist websites and people on youtube etc:
They're all fucking radical feminist, SJWs. They claim that if you aren't one, you aren't a real anarchist and can't be part of their secret club. Fuck em. That's what turned me off from them originally a few years ago.
>>69557531
And in Australia, the liberals are right wing.
>>69565785
>Technological advancement has little to do with human progress
>Communists deny that Capitalism is better than Feudalism
>Haiti is better than Cuba
>Venezuela is better than Colombia
>You have evidence of anything
>Norway is not ranked as the best country to live in year after year
>It does not work
What causes mass-immigration? :)
War and terror. Who bombed Libya? Who made ISIS possible? NATO with Capitalist interests. Mass immigration is 99% because of Capitalism and the big corporations gladly support taking in refugees.
See this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IZCcUBBCd0
My IQ is just fine, and I am sorry to tell you - but you are the brainwashed sheep here. IQ do not matter that much when you are brainwashed, as you fail to think by yourself. Sorry dude.
>>69557013
the rearest
>>69566337
Did you say that I am a 12 year old, because you are 15-16 yourself?
MODS
>>69557013
>>69557013
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y0zwKHkh9B0ndtnqRuQJ5ZDWwfc-Au1lYsDkhPE6NZY/
>>69567039
You should know that communism is a globalist ideology blind to race and nationality. Any true communism would welcome any black or muslims and probably institute interracial breeding programs to integrate and equalize them.
>implying communist countries haven't intervened in foreign wars
>>69567039
>>Technological advancement has little to do with human progress
Never said that.
How fucking dumb are you?
I said it had little to do with the fact poverty is being alleviated in this countries. It was the factories and businesses built that reduced poverty.
This destroys your argument that I gained my wealth by exploiting the third world.
Why are they doing so much better now.
Why are some of them like Korea, Singapore, Taiwan almost 1st world countries now when they used to be extremely poor?
Also the main reason this technology is increasing in the first place is because companies invested in it. Government investment helps too, but it was mainly in corporate investment.
>>Communists deny that Capitalism is better than Feudalism
Never said that.
Are you retarded?
>>Haiti is better than Cuba
Haiti is a leftist shithole infested with hurricanes.
Cuba is one of the worst, poorest countries in the world.
You're the biggest cuck in the world if you defend them lmao.
>>Venezuela is better than Colombia
They're both terrible?
>>Norway is not ranked as the best country to live in year after year
Kek, how dumb are you.
Norway has FAR FAR more economic freedom than those other leftist shitholes you mentioned.
Norway and Sweden's success was due to their relatively free markets.
In fact they built up most of their wealth during their mostly free market period decades ago.
>My IQ is just fine
LMAO you support marxism, you don't even believe in evolution,
You are clearly unable to carry on an argument and see the own contradiction
Most hilariously, you DESIRE to be told what to do by your government.
You're a LOW IQ cuck.
>>69567200
I said that because you speak like you're 12 years old and the fact you have an ideology a lot of 12 year olds have before they grow out of it.
Please leave /pol/ immediately.
>>69557013
>In a very similar way, I see a left wing but anti-sjw way of thinking shared between classical liberals, left wing anarchists, libertarian socialists, primitivists, cypherpunks, and others.
You don't have any counter arguments, you believe in the invisible knap-sack and believe in equality. The only think you dislike is tumblrisms and embarrasing rethoric.
There is no substance to disagree on.
>>69557013
the left is based on propaganda and lies.
There is an inherent division sown into all movements based on such fickle foundation.
The right is based in survival and truth, such movements has less elasticity and is solidified by physical reality.
>>69564507
>They actually tested the IQ of a group of people and asked for their party affiliation. Nr. 1 Red Party Nr. 2 Socialist Left Party 3. Liberal (centrist) 4. Conservative.
that tells us nothing about why these people picked thier affiliations, if we can even trust the study itself
rich people are insulated from immigration, they only get a few high performing pajeets, the poor have their areas swamped with disgusting mudslime fitlh
>>69567976
Marxist-Leninists(Stalinist) follow Stalin's answer to the national question which includes;
"The right of self-determination means that only the nation itself has the right to determine its destiny, that no one has the right forcibly to interfere in the life of the nation, to destroy its schools and other institutions, to violate its habits and customs, to repress its language, or curtail its rights."
Your interracial breeding program fantasy can you keep to yourself cuckold.
>>69568148
Saying that I am dumb does not make you less brainwashed, sorry :/
1. You said: "Technological advancement has little to do with it." Do you suffer from brain fog?
2. Yes, Capitalism builds factories. Socialism with a planned economy builds even faster. Capitalism > Feudalism
3. "This destroys your argument that I gained my wealth by exploiting the third world."
Do you think the average Canadian worker works as hard as the Asian slave that made your smartphone? You probably import food from the 3. world at a large scale too. Denying that the West enrich ourselves on the 3. world is... well.
4.
>Communists deny that Capitalism is better than Feudalism
>Never said that.
You implied that I somehow denied the progress Capitalism have made for large parts of the world.
I am pretty sure I am not retarded.
5. Haiti is a Capitalist shithole. Cuba is a much better country to live in than most of the world, despite being poor and suffer from blockade and sabotage from the US.
Lmao
6. I meant to imply that Venezuela is considerable better than Colombia - Venezuela being left-leaning for a long time while Colombia not.
7. Norway especially built up the country after WW2 with a relatively strong central-planned economy. The markets have opened up more and more with the years (after Einar Gerhardsen).
t. I am Norwegian
8. Well online tests give me 135-145 and in the military I got 9/9 on the intelligence test. So I am pretty sure that my intelligence is decent
>>69568148
>>69568273
If I speak like I am 12 years old, then it is because English is my 2. language.
>LMAO you support marxism, you don't even believe in evolution
Lmao
>You are clearly unable to carry on an argument and see the own contradiction
Lmao, your house is made out of glass.
>Most hilariously, you DESIRE to be told what to do by your government.
Lmao you are so free Lmao Capitalism freedomz
Capitalism is being cucked. Capitalism is what attacks and seek to destroy the family.
>>69557013
Fuck off OP. You're describing typical progressivism. Nothing alt about it.
>>69567039
>What causes mass-immigration? :)
>War and terror.
top kek
wasn't it the wonderful socialist blair who flooded our country with 4 million shitskins? the4y weren't fleeing war, they wanted money
and lucky for the socialists, they almost all vote socialist
it's a jewish plot to genocide Whites
>>69565046
It's completely the opposite here in the UK
The alt left are just actual communists
>>69569841
No, but it says that leftists generally have higher IQ, in Norway though.
And you are not American, you know that there are more to the left than just the question of how many immigrants we should take in. I am not a "Humanitarian leftist". I do not support immigration based on my ideological views.
Mass-immigration as something humanitarian is a fraud by the Capitalist corporations to import an reserve army of workers to exploit - and at the same time exploit the native working class because of the newly arrived immigrants without class consciousness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IZCcUBBCd0
>>69557191
This. At this point it's on you guys to clean up the modern left. Get rid of bullshit identity politics and maybe we can have real debates about the future again.
>>69566890
That's because the term liberal hasn't been hijacked by faggot leftist in your nation.
The founding fathers of this nation were liberals and they would be considered more right wing conservatives than the worst tea party strawman if they were alive and in politics today
>>69569875
>Marxist-Leninists(Stalinist) follow Stalin's answer to the national question
kek who gives a shit
You believe in the most outdated dumbest ideology on the planet.
You don't even believe in evolution.
>Saying that I am dumb does not make you less brainwashed
Kek, you actually believe in dialectical materialism, you deny human beings have genetic instincts despite ALL the scientific evidence against you. Scientists LAUGH at you waste of life lmao
>Do you suffer from brain fog?
Do you suffer from poor reading comprehension skills?
>2. Yes, Capitalism builds factories.
Yes, far far greater than socialism ever could.
>Socialism with a planned economy builds even faster.
AHAHHAHAHAHA
Tell that to fucking CUBA and NORTH KOREA
AAHAHHAHA
Holy shit why do you people exist.
All of these countries in southeast asia that have tried capitalism the past 30-40 years have industrialized FAR FAR faster than the soviet union ever could. USSR killed millions.
>Do you think the average Canadian worker works as hard as the Asian slave that made your smartphone?
No, extremely irrelevant question.
Their economy hasn't been developed yet, mine has. If my country didn't exist, these third world shitholes would have to STAY third world shitholes because they had no country to trade resources with.
>You probably import food from the 3. world at a large scale too
No I don't almost all of the food I eat is grown here. lmao
>Denying that the West enrich ourselves on the
Kek you literally have no argument here and you're mocked by EVERYONE
You're obviously 12 years old, usually people grow past their edgy marxist phase when they start working and learn how the economy works.
let's cut the crap, most leftists vote left because of gibsmedats. Such mindset is uncapable of producing various other desires that might give birth to different political currents.
>>69570235
>Capitalism is what attacks and seek to destroy the family.
that's jews anon, through feminism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Feminists_by_religion
wow, more jewish feminists than all other groups, including atheists, combined, despite them only beng 2% of the ppulation? HUH? WOW, THAT'S NOT SUSPICIOUS
your idol marx was a jew too, btw, and 300 of the 383 Bolshevik leaderships were jews, communism and socialism are designed to benefit the jews, so they can rule
>>69570743
Are you talking about the Indians/Pakis from your former colonies? Same with France and Algerians? That is a complete different situation to what we saw after the imperialist wars in the Middle-East. Believe it or not, most people like to grow old in their home country if it is safe there.
Again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IZCcUBBCd0
>>69571077
>Mass-immigration as something humanitarian is a fraud by the Capitalist corporations to import an reserve army of workers to exploit - and at the same time exploit the native working class because of the newly arrived immigrants without class consciousness.
and yet it was the4 socialists who went looking for millions to import(Labor)
I do agree that left and right benefit from lowered wages and more voters, but the whole thing is kike instigated to genocide Whties
>>69569875
>You implied that I somehow denied the progress Capitalism have made for large parts of the world.
No, I denied that capitalism EXPLOITED these third world countries by showing a graph that the massive increase in global free trade in the past 30-40 years has rapidly increase the living standards in the third world.
Haiti is a leftist shithole with massive corruption and little capitalism.
http://www.heritage.org/index/country/haiti
It's 150 on the list of economic freedom.
You're pathetic.
Cuba is a much better country to live in than most of the world
LMAO like 8% of the population has internet access, they all drive shitty cars from the 50s.
Their healthcare system is a joke and the floors are covered with feces.
AHAHAHA
>while Colombia not.
Columbia is not capitalist in the least.
Both of these shitty countries don't allow property rights and economic freedom.
The result is visibly seen.
>Norway especially built up the country after WW2 with a relatively strong central-planned economy.
No, it didn't. Scandinavia was never like that.
Sweden built up it's economy on free markets. Their welfare state was very recent.
>The markets have opened up more and more with the years
Good. That's why they're so self substaining and have a strong currency(an aspect of a free market).
It's unbelievable how brainwashed you are.
You ACTUALLY want to be a slave holy shit lol what poor genetics.
Just off yourself.
>Well online tests give me
>I'm super smart and rich guys believe me
>It doesn't matter that I don't believe in evolution or human genetics
LMAO this shit writes itself
>>69571659
So why are people moving from Africa and stabilised nations amongst the only 20% Syrians in the current migrant crisis? Why do people from the Balkan countries move in droves to the UK? Could it possibly be the fact that a large disproportionate amount of the Polish, Hungarian etc immigrants in the UK are on welfare of some sort?
>>69571510
Stay brainwashed :/
There is no reason to trying to discuss with you, because you have no interest in having an actual discussion. Hollow propaganda, insults and a very limited understanding of the world is all that come out of you.
>>69570235
>no argument
lmao
>still no argument
lmao
Still denying you don't believe in evolution or human genetics.
>contradiction
Marx contradicted himself so many fucking times yet marxists will never admit this kek
>Capitalism is being cucked
lmao yeah the fact I won't have to work anymore in probably 3 years means I'm cucked
Really wish I lived in a north korean prison right now, then I could truly be free lmao
>seek to destroy the family.
You believe in MARXISM
You HATE the family
>>69557013
>So, why isn't there an alt-left?
We're focused on winning elections. Giving the SJWs the "smile and nod" treatment is part of keeping the Democratic party together.
Alt-right is full of manchildren who want personal gratification before actual change. Look how well that's working out for them, lol
>>69571077
>No, but it says that leftists generally have higher IQ, in Norway though.
higher IQ people tend to live in rich White areas, they see nothing of the shit that the poor do
also EVERYONE is indoctrinated in school, and by the media, into lefties. It's the default position. The vast majority of teachers and professors are leftwing. People can wear hammer and sicle t shirts, or che geuvarra, witrhout any problem, but if they wear a swastikka?
as people become more academic, they realise that leftwing thought is the only approved side, so they either toe teh line and get with the program, or they keep their true views hidden. Not being some kind of lefty in academia is career suicide
>>69572213
this kid
THIS fucking kid.
>There is no reason to trying to discuss with you
AHAHAHHAHA
Oh fuck, the kid just gave up and left.
I posted a whole wall of text, refuting his points, he got mad and just left.
Marxists are the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet, the funniest part about all of this is that their ideology will NEVER be implemented ever again.
:^)
>>69557013
alt-left very much exists, just not in burgerland
>>69571600
"300 of the 383 Bolshevik leaderships"
This is a Nazi statement, and not true at all. You can actually look up the leadership of most of the governments and leading institutions in the USSR. The only big Jew was Trotsky, and he was killed with an ice pick, possibly on the orders of Stalin. First government had 2(+1 possible) Jews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjwIosmO0xk
>>69572525
>>69572213
You two have the most cancerous way of arguing I have ever seen. Quit with the ad hominems and HAHAHAHAHAHAHAs and LOL BRAINWASHED so you can have an actual discourse next time.
>>69571531
I think there is a fair amount of virtue signalling involved "LOOK EVERYONE I AM A GOOD PERSON COS I CARE ABOUT IMMIGRANTS SO MUCH THT I DON'T CARE IF MY SISTER GETS RAPED, ~AREN'T I GOOD GAIS, VALIDATE ME!!"
>>69571659
I don't care where the mass migration comes from, they are not my people. they are invaders
as I mentioned, both the left and right have reasons to want immigration, you keep posting that vid, which I'm assuming from the title only gives one side of the picture
but as I mentioned, it's the kikes who are behind it. They changed Americas immigration policy from Whites only in 1965, and the same in Australia. They control the EU, which recently has said that monocultures must be wiped out
it's genocide
>>69572865
>and not true at all
Your literally a stalinist.
Even far leftists laugh at you for being so irrational.
You're a walking joke.
Why should we listen to you about anything regarding the truth whatsoever?
>shitty youtube video with 150~ views
Ok kid
>>69573067
When arguing with marxists, sometimes you have to swoop down to their retarded level.
>>69571995
here are some quotes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba, you can go there to see the references
The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions (also known as "El Paredón").
Human Rights Watch has stated that the government "represses nearly all forms of political dissent" and that "Cubans are systematically denied basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, privacy, movement, and due process of law"
In 2003, the European Union (EU) accused the Cuban government of "continuing flagrant violation of human rights and fundamental freedoms".[129] The United States continues an embargo against Cuba "so long as it continues to refuse to move toward democratization and greater respect for human rights"
CUBA HAD THE SECOND-HIGHEST NUMBER OF IMPRISONED JOURNALISTS OF ANY NATION IN 2008 (CHINA HAD THE HIGHEST) ACCORDING TO VARIOUS SOURCES, INCLUDING THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS AND HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH.
Cuban dissidents face arrest and imprisonment. In the 1990s, Human Rights Watch reported that Cuba's extensive prison system, one of the largest in Latin America, consists of 40 maximum-security prisons, 30 minimum-security prisons, and over 200 work camps.[136] According to Human Rights Watch, Cuba's prison population is confined in "substandard and unhealthy conditions, where prisoners face physical and sexual abuse."
The average monthly wage as of July 2013 is 466 Cuban pesos, which are worth about US$19
>>69572276
You claim that Marxists deny evolution.
You think that you know more about Norway than me, as a someone very interested in politics, even non-Communist politics.
>>69572525
"I posted a whole wall of text, refuting his points, he got mad and just left."
You refuted nothing, you are unable/unwilling to discuss, there is no reason to continue.
Sorry, but I have no interest in discussing with people this hollow. I would rather discuss with a self-proclaimed Nazi.
>>69557013
The left is organized like a ladder. They're a vertical hierarchy based on identity politics.
The right is a flat structure. Social conservatives, neoconservatives, international business interests, libertarians, etc. have varying amounts of influence but they are a coalition.
There can be no alt left because you cannot branch off to the side in a strict vertical hierarchy, the moment you do you are viciously attacked and disowned and are no longer left. On the right if you come up with some alternate set of values/positions you are just another member of the coalition.
So all the people that should be part of the alt left have been forced to stay quiet or actually join the alt right. Look at the sudden surge in popularity of tariffs and barriers to the flow of labor, the opposition to globalism. Many of these positions should have a home on the left but that is not permitted, so the alt right has grown.
>>69573105
those are only the tip of the iceberg (>berg), most leftists are 9-5 blue collar lemmings who couldn't care less about immigrants or any current affairs for that matter. this applies to my country at least.
>>69573067
If you followed the discussion, you would see that I tried to discuss, to my defense lol. Just look at him, even after I ended the failed discussion he continue to sperg out.
>>69572314
>Alt-right is full of manchildren who want personal gratification before actual change.
fuck you poobrain, we want our countries back from the drooling lefty zombies and corrupt establishment, and hordes of shitskins
>>69572865
>This is a Nazi statement, and not true at all
how does it being a nazi statement or not have any effect on whether it's truthful?
I see you haven't included any sources for your claim
and it doesn't matter how much you post that shitty video, I'm not gonna watch it. I understand the argument that the right wants cheap workers
no comment on the massive jewish domination of feminism? why's that then?
>>69573304
>You claim that Marxists deny evolution.
They do.
They repeatedly do.
They(you) believe human beings are a blank slate and all of their behavior is socially/economically constructed.
This is probably the dumbest theory ever put forth and has absolutely zero theoretically evidence behind it.
You people deny human beings have strong built in instincts that control their behavior. Modern science laughs at you.
Proletariat/bourgeois aren't real concrete things. People move out of income brackets all of the time. Poor people become middle class, middle class becomes rich.
There's no reason to believe communism is somehow "inevitable" when human living standards increase every year.
Marxism is a joke.
>You refuted nothing
LMAO the IRONY.
You didn't even bother to reply to any of my refutations, as far as the thread is concerned, my post still stands
>you are unable/unwilling to discuss
You simply just walked away in anger from my post.
Typical for a 12 year old stalinist.
Rebelling against mommy and daddy are we?
I destroyed all of your dumb points the entire thread anyway. My last post was just the icing on the cake.
:^)
>>69573281
>The average monthly wage as of July 2013 is 466 Cuban pesos, which are worth about US$19
Holy shit, I make that in an hour just sitting at a computer.
>>69574166
>theoretically
theoretical*
>>69573947
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_leaders_of_the_Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Provisional_Government (first Soviet government)
I could dig deeper, but I think it is pretty easy to find on Wiki (the various governments, NKVD/KGB tops etc.)
This video is about Capitalist destruction of family.
I think 3. wave feminism is indeed a manipulated movement, I do not think that it is only big corporate Jews that is behind it though, but various of other corporations too.
>>69573304
>You think that you know more about Norway than me, as a someone very interested in politics, even non-Communist politics.
how do you even consider that a fucking argument?
>I would rather discuss with a self-proclaimed Nazi.
do you even know where the FUCK you are, boy? 1488
>>69574166
Go to your mommy now, I am sure she will be proud ;)
>>69574730
>leftcuck kid is still posting after this stumping
>"s-stop calling me a kid"
>"mommy they're yelling at me online"
ayy lmao
>>69574553
>how do you even consider that a fucking argument?
He comes up a claim about Norway that I know is not true, that any Norwegian that are interested in the history of politics in Norway know to not be true.
>do you even know where the FUCK you are, boy? 1488
Being a Marxist-Leninist and thinking that Stalin was just fine is very much politically incorrect and fit /pol/ pretty much IMO.
Also I think a lot of "nazis" have socialist values, and I share some thoughts usually placed within the "nazi"-camp. (Against immigration, pro homogenous societies, against the destruction of family).
>>69557013
Protip: You're actually right wing
>>69559312
bump
>>69557013
>I'm very much a left wing liberal - I'm all for workers having a voice in their organizations, there being a living minimum wage, free or cheap healthcare, am for equal rights for people regardless or race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
The reason so many of us are right wing is because free market Capitalism(where the government does not need to suck 30-40% of peoples incomes to pay for its fat self) already gives us these things, so we don't have to waste energy being for them.
>>69574551
The All-Russian Central Executive Committee (VtsIK) formed during the Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets contained 101 members of which 62 were Bolsheviks and included 23 Jews, . According to Nahum Rafalkes-Nir, former head of Poale Zion, during the discussion of Bolshevik takeover of the congress all 15 speakers who participated as official representatives were Jews while historian Yuri Slezkine says that it was likely 14. Kamenev and Sverdlov were the first two VtsIK chairmen which lead the Soviet state. Sverdlov also served at the Party's chief administrator. The first Bolsheviks in charge of Moscow and Petrograd were Kamenev and Zinoviev. Zinoview also served as the chairman of the Communist International.[2] Historian Albert Lindemann notes “it seems beyond serious debate that in the first twenty years of the Bolshevik Party the top ten to twenty leaders included close to a majority of Jews.
Serving between 1916 and 1917 as United States Ambassador to Russia, David R. Francis, noted that: "The Bolshevik leaders here, most of whom are Jews and 90 percent of whom are returned exiles, care little for Russia or any other country but are internationalists and they are trying to start a worldwide social revolution."[6] Between March and June 1919, Captain Montgomery Schuyler, a US military intelligence officer, reported: "It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the United States, but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning guided and controlled by Russian Jews [...] More than 300 Jews are (Bolshevik) commissars. Of this number 264 had come from the United States since the downfall of the Imperial government" A United States Senate subcomittee commented in the Congressional Record that by December 1919, 371 members of the 388 member Bolshevik central government led by Zinoniev were Jews.[7]
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_Communism_(copy_of_deleted_Wikipedia_article)
>>69574965
Look at this guy
He is the very stereotype of the keyboard-warriors that seek to ruin every discussion where the counter-part do not agree with him, and where his butthurt level raises with every counter argument he receives. Repeating himself in every reply, waiting for the counterpart to realize that there is no point in arguing with him, so that his butthurt level can finally sink to a bearable level.
>>69574551
>I think 3. wave feminism is indeed a manipulated movement, I do not think that it is only big corporate Jews that is behind it though, but various of other corporations too.
did you read the wiki article I linked? there are more Jewish feminists than ANY OTHER GROUP COMBINED! despite them being only 2% of the population
but yo uthink it is corporations, not jews?
The problem with an organized alt-left is endemic infighting. Identity politics and the oppression olympics ensure there is always more policing of themselves than towards any right-leaning people. That is also why despite having the minority of voters, the right can still manage to win elections.
>>69557191
>>69571082
>implying the antiscience, anti-intellectual "modern right" is respectable in any way
thanks for the laugh you fucking children
>>69574317
socialism works tho bro
>>69575217
>He comes up a claim about Norway that I know is not true, that any Norwegian that are interested in the history of politics in Norway know to not be true.
so refute him, you can't just claim "HURRRR I JUST NO ID WRONG GAIS!!
>Being a Marxist-Leninist and thinking that Stalin was just fine is very much politically incorrect
supporting or advocating communism is not politically incorrect, you can wear its symbols in public, and won't get into trouble at work or in academia for doing so. Just look at Barroso, a 'former' Maoist in a high position in the EU, and the jew Merkel, a former Stasi agent in communist Germany
>Also I think a lot of "nazis" have socialist values, and I share some thoughts usually placed within the "nazi"-camp. (Against immigration, pro homogenous societies, against the destruction of family).
nazis were avowedly anti (jewish) communism. Mainly after the failed Bolshevik revolution in Germoney between the wars
>>69575714
I have read through that article before, but there is no names of all the alleged 23 Jews out of 62 of the first Congress (remember that this was not a Bolshevik congress, but a congress with various parties).
And I find it very hard to believe that 371 out of 388 of the central government were Jewish, and the source is not working/non-existing, google give no hits on the source. If you know where I can find it I would be happy.
>>69575852
>lose the debate
>copy everything the guy that rekt you posted
Projecting much kid?
Just throw away your computer you embarrassment.
You're the embodiment of the angsty teenager that wants to manipulate and control other people.
Sorry you won't be able to kill millions of people in the name of your religion you genetic trash.
The irony of someone that wants the state to monopolize all media and destroy free speech whining like a 3 year old that someone is "ruining the discussion".
You lost, you ragequit and refused to debate me.
Everyone in this thread is laughing at you.
You're a walking talking joke. Just off yourself.
>>69575857
I think Jews own a disproportional amount of the big corporations (especially western media).
I do not think that Jews as a people are part of a conspiracy though. I think big capitalists have common interests, Jew or not Jew.
3. wave feminism is pushed to divide women among women and women and men - because division = easier to control.
>>69577065
It is OK
>>69577065
are you kidding? stop embarrassing yourself faggot. the other guy is right, you're a fucking worthless sack of meme-spewing shit. stay in school you fucking 17 year old closet case.
>>69577262
>facebook pictures
>I'M NOT 12 GUISE REALLY
>I DON'T HAVE TO DEBATE YOU BECAUSE I'M RIGHT
>NORTH KOREA IS GREAT
You're STILL posting?
lmao
You can taste the butthurt from here.
>>69576311
>antiscience, anti-intellectual "modern right"
explain?
>>69576786
google zinoniev 371 388
"to the upheaval that took place in Imperial Russia about one hundred years ago. The film was banned in Chile during the military regimen under General Augusto Pinochet.
While Christian Leitz claims that "only a few Soviet leaders and official were Jewish", Robert Witton,of The London Times, wrote in his book The Last Days of the Romanovs, that around 1920 no less than 90% of the Soviet regime was composed of Jews. Victor Mardsen, correspondent of The London Morning Post, went further and compiled a list of 545 Bolshevik officials. Of these, according to Mardsen, 454 were Jews. An American Senate subcomittee stated in the Congressional Eecord that by December 1919, under the presidency of the Jew Zinoniev, out of 388 members of the Bolshevik central government 371 were Jews.
More interesting yet are two reports US military intelligence officer Captain Montgomery Schuyler sent to Washington between March and June 1919. According to Schuyler: "It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the United States, but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning guided and controlled by Russian Jews". In addition, "More than 300 Jews are (Bolshevik) commissars. Of this number 264 had come from the United States since the downfall of the Imperial government" (Reportedly these commentaries are available at US National Archives in Washington)."
http://wais.stanford.edu/Russia/russia_JewsAndCommunism(110403).html
what do you make of the fact that the wiki article was deleted for "anti-semitism"? not for being wrong, I hope you can see the difference
>And I find it very hard to believe that 371 out of 388 of the central government were Jewish
argument to incredulity is a logical fallacy. The truth is the truth, no matter how shocking it might appear to you
>>69577522
>get absolutely rekt by everyone in the thread
>NO HE'S RIGHT, COMMUNISM WORKS EVERY TIME
MY SIDES what a worthless shitstain you are
>>69560845
(((Berger)))
Pure Coincidence
>>69577123
>I think Jews own a disproportional amount of the big corporations (especially western media).
>
>I do not think that Jews as a people are part of a conspiracy though. I think big capitalists have common interests, Jew or not Jew.
have you read the quotes from the talmud?
>3. wave feminism is pushed to divide women among women and women and men - because division = easier to control.
but you agree that it is DOMINATED by jews? who should only be about 2%?
do you accept that communism was invented by Jews?
>>69577884
oy veyy!! SUDG ANDISEMIDISM, FUG xddd
>>69577607
There is no sources to the claims in this short article, and 371 out of 388 is a bizarre number. I would consider 100 out of 388 to be too many Jews to represent Russia.
And of the known Jewish tops (the ones with names), were almost all executed by Stalin I believe (because they probably were loyal to Trotsky).
It would be interesting if Yezhov was a Jew, because he was executed by personal orders of Stalin for committing atrocities for reasons unknown - but suspected to be working with Trotsky or foreign powers to sow dissent in various regions in the USSR. Will look it up now.
>>69578747
>what do you make of the fact that the wiki article was deleted for "anti-semitism"? not for being wrong, I hope you can see the difference
>>69578025
The idea of Communism started before Marx though, and Marxism should be equally contributed to Engels (Not a Jew). Actually Marx wrote more about Capitalism than Communism, while Engels wrote mostly about Communism.
Lenin was not a Jew (possibly a grandfather or great grandfather that he had no contact with). Stalin was not a Jew either.
>but you agree that it is DOMINATED by jews? who should only be about 2%?
I could agree if I saw some numbers. Also my impression is that many Jewish women are feminists though, it is not an hidden agenda, and despised by conservative Jews. American Jews are in general very "liberal".
>>69579227
Yes, I am not a PC guy that shy away from reading and taking in things considered anti-semitic/racist, but I can see no sources or names to his claims.
And it is well known that the Nazis claimed that the Bolsheviks were Jewish, and used that in their propaganda.
>>69562803
Well said, leafbro
>>69579290
>The idea of Communism started before Marx though, and Marxism should be equally contributed to Engels (Not a Jew). Actually Marx wrote more about Capitalism than Communism, while Engels wrote mostly about Communism.
sources?
>Lenin was not a Jew (possibly a grandfather or great grandfather that he had no contact with).
maternal grandfather, so 25% jewish?
>Stalin was not a Jew either.
didn't make that claim
Trotsky was though. Do you have a good source for the timeline of the Bolshevik revolution and Russian Communism?
you said before that a lot of jews were purged. this doesn't stop the movement having been a mainly jewish movement. they had already accomplished the revolution and everything related after that point was fruit of the poisonous tree
>>69579741
>Yes, I am not a PC guy that shy away from reading and taking in things considered anti-semitic/racist, but I can see no sources or names to his claims.
I'm not sure if that is an actual answer to my question. Perhaps if I rephrase:
The article wasn't deleted because it was factually incorrect, but because jews complained it painted them in a bad light.
Got that? It implies that the article IS FACTUAL! but a powerful group got it shutdown for making them look bad
>>69579290
>I could agree if I saw some numbers. Also my impression is that many Jewish women are feminists though, it is not an hidden agenda, and despised by conservative Jews. American Jews are in general very "liberal".
I linked you the wiki article, here it is again
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Feminists_by_religion
>And it is well known that the Nazis claimed that the Bolsheviks were Jewish
so did Winston Churchill in his article
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Zionism_versus_Bolshevism
>>69579741
from Churchills article
In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of (((Karl Marx))), and down to (((Trotsky))) (Russia), (((Bela Kun))) (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and (((Emma Goldman))) (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.
>>69579741
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of (((Trotsky))), or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek – all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which (((Bela Kun))) ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.
hope you aren't going to claim Churchill was a nazi
>>69557013
Bill Maher seems like he would fit an alt-left mold
>>69557013
Because "Alt-left" is redundant
During the French revolution when this "left right" paradigm came about, the right stayed loyal to the king, whereas the left were about the rule of law and of equality, freedom and fraternity.
It was only AFTER the french revolution when the right had to undergo a change to conservatism, but not in the way that it used to be.
The right, therefore, would always be a step behind the left, on all issues. Now the right is being "for" everything liberals were for back in the 60s.
This changed when we realized the right was getting cucked. The alt-right exists as a conservative hivemind, because the establishment is cucking the nu-right.
A lot of people consider national socialists to be leftwing, but the problem with that is that, historically, social policy has always been classically rightwing, while anything regarding rights and equalities in law were left.
Libertarians can say how rightwing they are, but if they are afraid to legislate morality, then they're not really rightwing.
>>69580645
maybe more trad-left
I thnk he's a cunt though, in case you wondered
>>69580923
the origin of left and right wing story I heard was that in the olden days when they used quills, the rich used the right wing feathers, because the grain matched and it didn't scratch as badly. The poorer(midde class really, since they could write) used the left wing quills which were more difficult to write with
useless fact of the day
>>69557013
It would just be the alt right without nationalism which means it would just be your typical baby boomer democrat which doesn't really give a shit about social issues. The alt right is actually very left wing in some senses. It is for equality of your countrymen. It is helping your fellow citizen. It is nationalism.
>>69580325
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
If you read the history part, there are other figures that inspired Marx. I am not sure if it was Marx that made up the term Communism or not though, but the ideas behind Marxism is influenced by many others than just Marx and Engels.
Engels produced a tonne of essential texts in Marxist Communism, I could find some if you are interested.
>maternal grandfather, so 25% jewish?
Possibly, but he never met him, and it is just as likely that he was a tatar I believe I have read. He would not get Israeli citizenship if he had applied today nevertheless.
>Do you have a good source for the timeline of the Bolshevik revolution and Russian Communism? What do you mean?
Trotskyism is the rival of Stalinist ideology. Only "intellectual Communists" at universities think anything of Trotsky, and nothing in Marxism-Leninism(Stalinism) is contributed to by Trotsky.
>you said before that a lot of jews were purged. this doesn't stop the movement having been a mainly jewish movement. they had already accomplished the revolution and everything related after that point was fruit of the poisonous tree
My point is that if Stalin managed to purge the Jews in top positions, the Bolsheviks was not ruled by some Jewish narrative.
>Got that? It implies that the article IS FACTUAL! but a powerful group got it shutdown for making them look bad
I disagree. The West was and is very anti-Communistic during the Cold-War and today, so claiming that almost all of the Soviet central government were Jewish would be proclaimed "Anti-Semitic" with the loose meaning of that phrase.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Feminists_by_religion
An explanation could be that Jewish women are more "liberal" and "progressive" though, as I said, feminism is looked down upon in traditional Judaism. But it is still pretty strange, indeed. Since the media companies is very much owned by Jews, it could be that they promote Jewish feminists though.
>>69580577
No, but there is nothing in this that supports the narrative that 90%+ of the central government were Jewish. All these names listed there, only 3 of them could be considered tops, and all killed by Stalin's orders I believe.
Not because they were Jews though, but because they were Trotskyists/saboteurs. Which again "proves" that the Bolshevik government was not ruled by Jews. And that being said, Jews were indeed overrepresented as Communists all over Europe - but oppressed people tend to like Communism.
>>69562803
Dude, c'mon, you have to know that everyone on /pol/ makes over $100k with their STEM degree, is blonde with a BWC with a white wife and family.
>>69582204
hmm, you said Stalin wasn't a Jew?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin
>Joseph Stalin (/ˈstɑːlJn/;[1] birth surname: Jughashvili; 18 December 1878[2] – 5 March 1953)
http://jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-stalin-3%20Jewish%20Wives%20of%20Joseph%20Stalin.html
>In the Georgian language "shvili" means son of, or son, as in Johnson. "Djuga" means Jew. Therefore Djugashvili means Jewison.
>So Joe Stalin's real name, before he changed it, was Joe Jewison. It gets better, his name was Joseph David Djugashvili, a typical Jewish name. During his revolutionary days he changed his name to "Kochba", the leader of the Jews during one of the anti-Roman uprisings of the Jews. Russians don't change their names. Georgians don't change their names. Jews change their names.
>Stalin had three wives, all of them Jewesses.
>The first was Ekaterina Svanidze who bore him one son, Jacob. His second wife was Kadya Allevijah. She bore him a son Vassili, and a daughter Svetlana. His second wife died in mysterious circumstances, either by committing suicide, or murdered by Stalin. His third wife was Rosa (((Kaganovich))), the sister of (((Lazar Kaganovich))), who was the head of Soviet industry.
>Stalin's daughter (who in 1967 fled to the USA) then married Lazar's son Mihail i.e. her step-mother's nephew. Svetlana Stalin had a total of four husbands, three of them Jewish.
>Stalin's vice-president Molotov was also married to a Jewess, whose brother, Sam (((Karp))), runs an export business in Connecticut. Just to complicate things even more, the Molotov's (half-Jewish) daughter also called Svetlana was engaged to be married to Stalin's son Vassili.
>would be proclaimed "Anti-Semitic" with the loose meaning of that phrase.
anti-semetic, but TRUE?!
>>69568273
dude you are clearly underage, kill yourself faggot
reading your posts is truly cringeworthy
>>69582948
Jewwatch.com is a Nazi page though, and Nazis follow the narrative of painting Communism as a Jewish thing. They would obviously make Stalin to be a Jew.
http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=192
>>69582841
i fit those criteria minus STEM, but i would be considered a "libtard" here. irony is that most of the trumplets/conservacucks here are NEETs.
>>69557013
Because the left are all self-congratulatory, triumphal yet fractured by their petty electioneering projects to actually buckle down and lay down some hard truths. If the left were to do that they would break their fragile alliances built on useful idiots. It's all built on illusions and dreams propagated by the Urbanized bourgeois elites who want to maintain their position in whatever new structures arise.
Lenin knew the support networks that maintained his ability to live the relatively easy life of the middle class intellectual might be up so he decided to be at the front of the wave and seize a prominent position in the new order.
>>69557013
>equal rights for people regardless or race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
then you can't have free healthcare
If a poor person pays no taxes then the rich cannot either. anything else is not equality
also
>1 post by this id
you all got rused
>>69557013
The 'alt left' is just mainstream opinions.
>>69583237
>irony is that most of the trumplets/conservacucks here are NEETs.
source
>>69583209
Its fine to call into question the sourcee, as long as you actually debunk the claim
simply calling the source false "just because" is exactly the thing you were accusing others of just two seconds ago
You leftists have no sense of unity or brotherhood among you.
I'm a fascist yet I can have peaceful and productive conversations with anarchists here.
We can do this because ultimately we share the same values. they just manifest in very different ways.
However leftists have a thing for not liking to be labeled while labeling everything including themselves.
This is a weakness.
>>69582710
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Provisional_Government
you linked this before, it only lists like the top 15 members of 3 coalitions. Much more is needed to disprove the 300/500 claims
>>69583209
>Jewwatch.com is a Nazi page though
your fallacy is GENETIC!
do you agree that Stalin wasn't his birthname?
alt-left is pointless
all leftist ideologies are welcome in modern left-wing parties
the only reason the alt-right is needed is because far-right ideologies aren't welcome anywhere in modern discourse
>>69564507
>Burden of proof: Soviet Union from being 70-100 years behind the west in terms of industrialization became the 2. industrial power and then collapsed
>>69583237
where is the proofs?
>>69583756
the cuck right hasn't managed to conserve anything that fucking matters, they even favor mass immigration, the traitors
>>69583602
I think my link are just as credible as the Jewwatch-link.
>>69583754
I think that when there is a claim that 300+/500 is Jewish, a bizarre number, it is not my job to disprove it. I could not disprove it without having the names of the alleged Jews, and neither could anyone prove it without giving the names of the alleged Jews. It is just a claim, that very possibly come from Nazi-propaganda.
>do you agree that Stalin wasn't his birthname?
Stalin first called himself "Koba" after the Georgian "Robin-Hood", then changed to Stalin because of the cling/Man of Steel meaning.
Why is it important that it is not his birthname? If he was a Jew, I am pretty sure he would not want to hide it.
>>69557757
>What you are describing is an old-timey left, in contrast to modern-day progressive left.
>I think lots of older people who have always been on the (non-activist) left share your viewpoint.
this
The Corbyn CND 'left' hijacking of the British Labour party is a fucking disaster to people like me. They can all go and fuck themselves, I'm probably more left than they are but I won't vote for or support Jeremy 'Incompetent Cunt but Friend of Hamas' Corbyn, ever.
>>69583754
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100831080414AAQOZYX
This guy have various theories about his name.
But I got to go now dude.
>>69584147
>I think that when there is a claim that 300+/500 is Jewish, a bizarre number, it is not my job to disprove it. I could not disprove it without having the names of the alleged Jews, and neither could anyone prove it without giving the names of the alleged Jews.
then why did you post me that link? as if it showed the claim was wrong?
>It is just a claim, that very possibly come from Nazi-propaganda.
we've already looked at some articles, such as the deleted wiki page, where multiple people are quoted as saying similar things about jews holding ~90% of the positions. We have the names of the people making those cliams, and the positions they were claimed to have been working in.
> two reports US military intelligence officer Captain Montgomery Schuyler sent to Washington between March and June 1919. According to Schuyler: "It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the United States, but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning guided and controlled by Russian Jews". In addition, "More than 300 Jews are (Bolshevik) commissars. Of this number 264 had come from the United States since the downfall of the Imperial government" (Reportedly these commentaries are available at US National Archives in Washington).
>Robert Witton,of The London Times, wrote in his book The Last Days of the Romanovs, that around 1920 no less than 90% of the Soviet regime was composed of Jews. Victor Mardsen, correspondent of The London Morning Post, went further and compiled a list of 545 Bolshevik officials. Of these, according to Mardsen, 454 were Jews. An American Senate subcomittee stated in the Congressional Eecord that by December 1919, under the presidency of the Jew Zinoniev, out of 388 members of the Bolshevik central government 371 were Jews.
none of them seem to be nazi sources, you keep throwing it out as a buzzword. do you think only the nazis lied/propagandized? or did the commies do it too?
>>69584147
>Why is it important that it is not his birthname? If he was a Jew, I am pretty sure he would not want to hide it.
you mean like Bernie Sanders? Oops I mean Gutman
jews are well known for changing their names as a smokescreen
>>69584680
>>69584761
Well, I think we will leave it at that, because I got to go.
Will just give some short reasons;
1. The link to disprove the theory of that most of the tops in the USSR were Jewish (the tops, the ones we have the names of).
2. I will try to find the list they are speaking of.
3. I think that if 371 of the members of the Central government were Jews, Stalin would not be able to execute all those Jewish tops (the Trotskyists).
4. All sides propagandized - but that the Bolsheviks were 90%+ Jewish is something that Nazi-Germany would find fitting to their narrative.
You can have the last word, I will read it but won't respond (as I got to go).
>>69557013
Because classical liberals all fled to the Right, left wing anarchists and libertarian socialists are crypto-authoritarians, primitivists don't use computers and cypherpunks are incomprehensible.
There is no alt-left because there is no alt-left. Your stated attitude is the closest thing to it, but really, it's just conservatism within Leftism.
You spent twenty years bitching about progress and more rights and more free shit, and now you're amazed that the millennials are still doing it? Why ought they to stop, you've already proved the concept for them. They want the same thing as you did then, adjusted for now. There is no difference between demanding that someone recognize the gay identity and demanding that someone recognize genderqueer dragonkin nonsense.
You cannot rebel from such a movement, because it has already betrayed you. The viper that you so foolishly nursed in your naivety has turned its fangs upon you, as we said it would, and is now leaving you behind, so that you may watch the destruction you wrought on our society be wrought upon yours.
And when everything you fought for lies in ruins and the values that make this country great to you are tattered, derided and mocked, you may come, crawling, to poppa Conservatism, and ask him if the pain will ever fade.
The answer is no. No it does not.
>>69569875
>Thinking an online IQ test is accurate.
I was somewhat seeing your point there until thou mentioned that shit.
>>69557013
The entire establishment is left you doofus
>>69557013
because liberals are lazy and dishonest.
>>69585539
See ya
Stalin executed many others than the Jews, and many non-Jews were not executed
>All sides propagandized - but that the Bolsheviks were 90%+ Jewish is something that Nazi-Germany would find fitting to their narrative
you admit your side has bias? very honest of you
do you admit that your professors and teachers have a bias? or are they the only ones who don't?(question to ask yourself)
also the claim was made by US intelligence officers(not nazi), British journalists(not nazi) and even to some extent by Churchill(not nazi)
if something the nazis said was corroborated by several other sources(including his chief adversary), then the fact the nazis said it is irrelevant
would you reject the claim that 2+2=4 if a nazi told it you?
have you read the logical fallacy sticky? when I first got here, I was making a few of these errors now and then. it really sharpens you up
HAIL VICTORY!
>>69585684
well said
>>69557013
Sounds like leftypol.
Alt-left didn't consolidate, because it's alt-right with a different economic model.
As much as I like Stalin and Kim Il Sung, I find the plan economy plain retarded and needlessly too complicated to work effectively. Even the Lenin's NEP with it's semi-free market and trust policy was a more sensible alternative.
That's why Fascism is the only answer.
>>69557013
The mainstream left still has a solid orthodoxy. An alt-left could really only come around if the mainstream left is culturally shattered in the way the Religious Right was during Dubya's presidency.
>>69557013
Alt right has a wider appeal. Not to mention there are states that put alt left politics into action and failed.
>>69557013
MRA is just backlash movement against feminism disenfranchising men and creating laws against them and clearly in favor of women.
How is it stupid?
>>69586151
>>69585539
I think you two are done your fight now and I lost track of who was arguing for what. I agree with whoever was saying that the Bolsheviks were predominantly jewish.
For those who are still reading this thread this goes out to you too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6p1zxKnDeM
Here is a link where putin admitting that 80-85% of the first Bolsheviks were jewish. It's also not anti-semitic propaganda here is the link to the article explaining the context. http://ria.ru/culture/20130613/943167306.html
>>69577704
>>69577522
>>69575852
wew lads calm down I have to give a point to to my canuck friend on the "marxists deny evolution"
marxists do simplify everything to socio economics which we know is bullshit. No amount of diddle daddling and name calling will change that
>>69590203
thanks, saved
>>69580512
giving this a bump because those commies overlooked this
>>69583782
it's not terribly hard to become a super power when your country has the resources and the population for it, given enough time. What commiebong needs to realize is that Germany did everything he is claiming communism did in half the time and without massacring their fellow country men. It's funny how far up their heads are when it comes to these things, also quite sad.
>>69557309
The difference is how the "sides" present themselves
The democrats do a good job of being inclusive and they don't demonize the mainstream, in addition they don't give nearly as much shit to "establishment" forces, and they do a good job of drumming up support based on rational positions on social issues. So the left has less fracturing outside the mainstream because it feels like it's representing you (even though it isn't, but I'll get to that later)
The right does a lot more us Vs them anti establishment anti elite anti mainstream propaganda, which eventually turned on them, partially because they have a much more rigid platform so there is less play for more people to feel represented, partially because there is a lot of religious cowtowing, and some other stuff. So the right feels less representative to people on the right, and with the general anti-establishment feeling being much more intense due to the political climate on the right you get a lot more groups fracturing off in discontent.
Regardless both parties work for a rigid police state and interventionist foreign policy and government bloat in general that benefits business interests at home and abroad over the welfare of citizens in general, so unless you're for that you aren't represented. There is only a small range of differences between the parties on a few social issues. The only other difference is in rhetorical tone.
>>69557620
Epic strawman
>>69557997
Suharto pls
>>69559312
Epic meme.
>things I don't like are le ebin speshul snowflake meme cause everything I say is the same is the same
>>69560665
Hello Suharto
>>69562624
Another ebin strawman
>>69593253
the right have betrayed their voters
the leftwing voters have betrayed their people
big difference
>>69593846
HURRRRRRR STWAAAAAAAAAAMAAAAAAAAAAAN
explain why, you colossal gay faggot
I want the white utopia that Marx envisioned. Communism was a conservative movement which thought most tasks should be automated by machines, slaves etc.
He wanted us to have time for families and be human. Not stamp a fucking time card all day, let the lesser evolved races do that. And he wanted no or little government.
Jews fucked communism, they poisoned his original message.
>>69594250
>explain why, you colossal gay faggot
>>69557013
Well, the "Alt-right" hasn't solidified so much as formed into an ambiguous sea of Nth Positions.
As for the "Alt-left", well. It does exist - it's the sjwism, radical identitarianism, 'radical'-feminists, anti-racists and islamophiles.
They're just used as a tool of the left-right establishment - you'll see fearmongering that Russia is funding right-wing parties, but you'll never see the fearmongering about Russia's pro-leftist, anti-racist broadcasting on RT or their funding of radical leftist groups.
Capitalism and consumerism are a Jewish plot to destroy your humanity. Giving you a consumer fetish why they destroy your culture for profit, as in break up and sell the parts. Import immigrants to lower wages, increase divorce to increase profit, raise the cost of education so you cannot afford children. So they can keep stupid immigrants flowing in and the cucks under control.
The immigrants will eventually face the same fate as the Jews slowly turn them into cucks.
>>69562803
So wages in South African and Indian sweatshops rise cause muh invisible hand?
Capitalism relies on a proletariat for labor, and all too often nobody gives a shit about them. When it looks like trickle down has worked, what you're seeing is the globalization and shifting of the labor burden to other proletarians worldwide. Sure living standards were lower worldwide at one point, but how the fuck does that excuse letting people live in equally bad conditions today when we're more than capable of improving everybody's lives?
Deciding what McDonald's to go to while immigrants are destroying your culture isn't freedom.
Cucks think they have freedom because you decide Home Depot or Lowes. You fucking blind. Capitalism is slavery to debt, to the Jews.
>>69593846
HURRR, I'M AM IDIOT WHO JUST GOES ROUND CALLING EVERYTHING A STWAAAAMAAAAN WITHOUT ANY SUPPORTING EVIDENCE
oh no, is someone challenging you? you lefty dum dum
what's that? you can't just spew STWAAAAMAAAN and claim victory? you have to ACTUALLY PROVE YOU'RE CLAIM?
>>69557013
The term "Alt-Right" is just like the term "Tea Party", or "Neocon", they are an invention of the left that exists purely to divide the right.
>>69594250
There is no difference in the parties in terms of betrayal, they have both betrayed the US people.
This is because the US people no longer act as watch dog on the government, they think they can sit on their porch raising their 2.5 kids + dog and everything will be fine. The reality is democracy works because people are supposed to step in to correct government misbehavior, it's their only sit in the system but people in the US have abrogated their duty to be informed and their duty to act is by extension either irrelevant (since they are constantly acting to correct meaningless issues instead of real problems) or missing entirely.
Tl;dr: the US government is shit because it's people are shit.
>>69557418
Not really, it'd be more noticeable without this April Fools layout, now Chad, that is a stealth fucking rare.
>>69557191
You LARPing retard
>>69594669
>proletariat
oh look it's a fucking communist who excuses the deaths of hundreds of millions under communism
>globalization
another word for internationalism, a communist ideal
probably a kike, or kike programmed, too
>>69595271
>the US government is shit because it's people are shit.
there was a socialist takeover of the democrap party first, and infiltration of the reps too, bringing us neocons, RINOS and cucks. They are all paid by the same people, espouse almost the same policies(mass immigration, anti-waycism, minority pandering), and most importantly ALL US politicians have to get the backing of AIPAC in order to get elected
none of them care about the people, they are all compromised and do as they are told
>>69595271
Why? Don't you think it has to do with greed and profit? They are enacting policies in order to make themselves and those who fund them rich. Then subverting the people while they rob them.
>>69593483
Rather than straight up calling out the Strawman and leaving it at that, why don't you bring the discussion to where you think it belongs. Like >>69562624
>>69593788
This whole thread is littered with serious posts why don't you pick one and get along with it.
>>69594250
You need to calm down too, don't argue with an idiot because this whole thread losses.
>>69594321
Wants and reality are at odds at times. I don't expect a utopia to arise from marxism as much as it will arise from having automated machinery to begin with. It has less to do with Captialism and Communism as much to do with being a humanitarian. Communism in this regard has the worst track record.
>>69593674
I don't know what you're trying to say. Trying using less memes for me please
>>69594429
>>69594250
Right wing has sold out their countries to corporations and globalists for profit. Conservatives are more in line with maintaining culture, tradition with less government oversight. Where as liberals see culture and tradition as being forces of oppression because they unfairly blame due to the disparage they see between rich and poor countries. To solve this leftists want a big government to even the playing field between the rich and the poor.
Leftist thinking is more in line with marxists and their critique stems from cultural marxism.
>>69594552
Yup our line of thinking is terrifying for them it undermines everything they've been working for. The sentiment in most western countries between right-left wing is almost at civil war level. It makes it an easy scapegoat for the elites.
>>69594667
Excuse me sir, how else would civilization determine resource allocation and how much labour + skills is worth
>>69594669
Firstly they do but on a longer time scale than your patience allows for. Secondly that's also the work of our companies moving out because of trade deals to begin with. Communism won't save you from that either.
>>69596012
Excuse me "fag", the goad is to eliminate all "needs" and to have everything you want by automation (machines, slaves, etc). That was what Marx was writing about. Allocation of resources which are more rare would be determined by the majority at large in a government of the people. Not run only for the shitskin minorities, their rights are irrelevant. A communist society would determine itself what genetics are adventageous at large.
>>69595004
Slavery to debt, slavery to the state. What is the difference here? What you fail to realize is that no one has forced you to take personal debt. Okay, your country has high debt? Move the fuck out and take as much capital with you. No communism required.
>>69595800
Again greed and profit still exist in communism it just becomes befuddled. Everyone wants to be at the top and those with the skills will and those at the top will receive more.
If you think you'll get to the communist utopia when you get automation, tell me my friend. What stops that utopia from happening to capitalism when they also get the automation required? many office jobs today only do 10-20 hours of work a week already.
>>69585684
>There is no difference between demanding that someone recognize the gay identity and demanding that someone recognize genderqueer dragonkin nonsense.
Except one is a hardwired sexual orientation and the other is a bullshit emo fetish.
Honestly I think a major problem with the SJWs is that they reject science.
>>69585684
>when everything you fought for lies in ruins and the values that make this country great to you are tattered, derided and mocked, you may come, crawling, to poppa Conservatism, and ask him if the pain will ever fade.
kek. The values that made this country great were Enlightenment values. Every shithole on earth is full of people who value family, god, and duty above reason.
If you haven't noticed, 40 years of conservative rule haven't exactly been good for America. Of course you cucks are too suck up your own assholes to self-reflect and come crawling to us as you ought to do.
>classical liberals
So alt right? Because paleoconservatives are classic liberals.
You think equal rights is a left wing issue? Lol, that's cute.
>>69557013
The "alt-left" sounds like the old left, which was far more concerned about class and economic issues than present-day identity politics. We'll probably see a rise of it, for much the same reasons we're seeing the rise of the alt-right, namely being tired of Tumblr's shit. Hell, parts of the alt-right have the disdain for capitalism conventionally associated with the left.
The factors making Trump skyrocket also helped Bernie get this far.
>>69557013
>So, why isn't there an alt-left?
Because you already formed the New "alt" Left between the 1940s and 1960s. It was called CULTURAL MARXISM. Jesus, if you're serious about the Left, study it's fucking history objectively, don't just drink the koolaid and read the propaganda.
>>69595735
I never excused the killings of 100 gorillion people.
Globalization isn't the same as communist internationalism. Globalization is the global expansion of capitalist big business. Communist internationalism is the alliance of proletarians in different countries in their mission to seize control of the means of production.
>>69596421
>Allocation of resources which are more rare would be determined by the majority at large in a government of the people. Not run only for the shitskin minorities, their rights are irrelevant.
You're getting yourself mixed up here. So communism is as racist and oppressive as capitalism or what?
Again, under what pretences would Capitalism fail to deliver the Utopia that Communism promises when the required automation is there already.
>>69596421
>A communist society would determine itself what genetics are adventageous at large.
like a capitalist free market
>>69596934
>Again, under what pretences would Capitalism fail to deliver the Utopia that Communism promises when the required automation is there already.
Capitalism leads to artificial scarcity as employers manipulate wages in order to force people to work.
>>69596654
>>69596792
This is true to a large extent. Bernie is moving the left towards a pre-60's focus on class and economics while Hillary is still pandering to identityfags.
>>69596012
>You need to calm down too, don't argue with an idiot because this whole thread losses.
you are a voice of calm in these troubled times, the soothing balm of ointment on the burnt ass of the world
>Right wing has sold out their countries to corporations and globalists for profit. Conservatives are more in line with maintaining culture, tradition with less government oversight.
except the conservatives haven't really conserved anything of note for a long time. and now they have gone full mass immigration
>>69596421
>A communist society would determine itself what genetics are adventageous at large.
you mean you don't think all peoples and races are equal? and that Whites do deserve countries of their own?
>>69596467
>Move the fuck out and take as much capital with you
Well, Dallas, if that even is your real name, where to? are there any non-socialist White countries any more?
every Western country is in serious amounts of debt
>>69596473
>the other is a bullshit emo fetish.
people would have said that about homos in the 50s
>>69596616
equal rights of who to what?
equal rights for Whites to have countries just for them? the way blacks, browns and yellows have?
>>69596820
well, you seem to think that multimillion mass-murders are not a feature of communism
> Globalization is the global expansion of capitalist big business. Communist internationalism is the alliance of proletarians in different countries in their mission to seize control of the means of production
seize? like take by force? sort of like theft?
both the left and right benefit from globalism, the left gets lots of socialist "free gibs" voters, and the right gets cheap workers. Neither of these benefit the people of the country
assuming you are a socialist, what right does anyone else have to MY earnings? I'm not opposed to charity if it is voluntary, but taking my earnings with the threat of force is akin to slavery
>>69575693
Some truth to this, I'm not an ancap by any means but Rothbard was absolutely right when he said capitalism served women's rights.
My first redpill was realizing that businessmen weren't trying to foist racism on us for their own sake, and third worlders aren't secret feminists who only set women on fire because imperialism. The conflation of capitalism with patriarchy is one of the dumbest fucking notions in sociopolitical thought.
>>69596977
That would be determined by whomever posses capital, which can be passed from generations of Jews to eachother not the society. You are ruled by dead people, dead capital.
>>69596977
>rubio
>dubs
april fools
>>69564507
Being a smartass, sheltered, comfortable educated faggot doesn't make you right. On the contrary, ...
>>69596977
Go home, Rubio!
>>69597360
>Well, Dallas, if that even is your real name, where to? are there any non-socialist White countries any more?
>every Western country is in serious amounts of debt
According to this estonia or russia. Also how ever cucked Canada is our natural resources will still be there as long as we don't get annexed :DDD
http://www.statista.com/statistics/273488/countries-with-the-lowest-national-debt/
>>69597496
>>69597496
"the society"
"You are ruled by dead people, dead capital."
since when did broad stroked brushes and meaningless platitudes ever become a legitimate argument?
>>69597506
>cruz
>no dubs
april fools?
>>69597940
In his own mind it does don't bully :(((
>>69596934
Capitalism fails because in this system you are a horse. When cars and the automotive industry came they didn't move horses to anther industry. Keeping horses became more expensive and they were simply slaughtered.
laborers are no longer needed, having children is more expensive.. Same scenario.
>>69598061
Yesh, and in communism you work your machinery until they run out of oil brake down and your electricity gets cut off. Thank you for making me write what I consider my first shitpost.
>>69596977
>>69597506
rubio and cruz what a pair of jokers
>>69598061
it sounds like you agree that we're being taken advantage of, except you blame capitalism, instead of the Jews
do you know how fiat money and central and fractional banking work?
>>69557013
There tends to be more individualists on the "right wing" side than "left wing". Individualists strive on rebelling against the "collective thinking" of the establishment, which catalyzes the growth of "alternative" politics.
Left wing individualists, though they exist, don't tend to "band together" enough to get a true "alternative" movement. Really, it's on you to make an alternative movement.
I'd welcome an alt-left movement. Sounds interesting and it would help show the diversity in political ideologies so hopefully people with stop clumping people together in "conservatives vs liberals"
>>69557013
But desu "classical liberals" are already part of the alt-right. So good luck there, Pédro
>>69594667
>Capitalism and consumerism are a Jewish plot to destroy your humanity
No, consumerism stems from our humanity.
When you get down to it, people like and want stuff. Barring a few modern-day Buddha's, those who live "minimal" lifestyles still live at standards above and beyond anything the majority of humanity currently alive, let alone throughout history, have known. You are using a computer, an amazingly intricate product of advanced science, mathematics, and high-level manufacturing (the water used to make modern integrated circuits is so pure it's actually somewhat harmful to humans).
Advertisers/Jews may exploit your consumerist urges, much as you may train a dog with a steak, but the dog loved red meat well before anyone thought to ban drinking milk with it.
>>69598548
>do you know how fiat money and central and fractional banking work?
Yes, and I can guarantee that you don't. You know some of the details of the institutions but you have no clue how they actually affect the economy.
>>69599291
>I can guarantee that you don't
shame i have to go now, but do feel free to explain a)how they work, and b)how you can guarantee I don't know
you arrogant smug cuck
will read it later *smooches*
>>69599435
>b)how you can guarantee I don't know
Because I've heard your misinformed "theories" a gorillion times and they're bullshit.
>>69599582
how do you know it was me?
and you missed out a)
anyway, really have to go
Fuck leftists. ALL OF THEM
Calling dibs on the Alt-Centre.
No drunken Scottish bisexual manlets allowed.
>69557087
This.
>>69557013
The alt-left doesn't exist.
You can't have HBD views and support multiculturalism at the same time. It doesn't work.
If you oppose it, you're just left-wing.
>>69599720
>implying your theories are any different that all the other paranoid goldbugs
Also if you want to know how the banking system actually affects the economy you should take an introductory macroeconomics class as a reputable college.
>>69561073
jghfh
this this this this this this
>>69557013
Im on the alt right but will make an alliance with the Alt Left.
Kerry Bolton's book on Stalin is a good book for the alt left. He shows how Stalin saved the USSR from the Trotskites aka sjws and progressives.
