Hello, /pol/acks, I'd like to ask those of you, who live in primarily islamic countries and/or have arab/turkish/kurdish/etc. roots what's the life like in your country for an average citizen from your personal experience.
Are horrors of islamic society exaggerated? Do many people legitimately believe in Allah or the majority just pretends to because they don't want to face punishment?
Are there lots of people among the university graduates, who secretly disbelieve?
Can you watch animu without the fear of being persecuted?
I have the impression that the majority of arabs "believe", for else they fear private sanction imposition from society and being ostracized by religious relatives and social institutions rather than from sincere belief. This spawns aggression and insecurity in society, constant fear, driving people batshit crazy.
Are my impressions any true?
Enlighten me, sandanons.
>>67881813
I'm curious too about this topic.
Bumpin'
>>67881813
Bump would like to hear dunecoons for once.
I stress that I invite here not just anons from the Middle East. Turkanons are invited too. I am legitimately interested in this question.
>>67882156
they don't seem to be visiting /pol/ for some reason...
>>67882310
I am sure I've seen an Algerian here, some guys from Iraq and Syria along with daily turks.
Will just have to bump and wait.
>>67882410
Never seen an Iraq flag here before.
I sorta have some answer for your questions though. I talked about this topic with some turks who live in Hungary. They aren't taking their restrictions here that seriously like they were in Turkey. But they said they have to stay religious and stick together, because they are in an alien society. So that's one reason i know
>>67881813
Hello anon.
>what's the life like in your country for an average citizen from your personal experience.
a) It is great for the smaller towns in Turkey. Clean air, good food.
b) For the upper class in the big cities it is super. But these are few
c) for the lower class life is a nightmare in the big cities.
>Are horrors of islamic society exaggerated?
Yes, western media is doing it to prepare public opinion for perpetual war colonialism in the middle east.
>Do many people legitimately believe in Allah or the majority just pretends to because they don't want to face punishment?
Exactly, there are a number of atheists, but some are afraid. But then again there's not much to be afraid of, most religious wouldn't attack them unless they began proselytizing publically. They would just consider them 'crazy'.
>Are there lots of people among the university graduates, who secretly disbelieve?
Generally younger generations in larger cities do not secretly disbelieve, but it's open.
>Can you watch animu without the fear of being persecuted?
There is a considerable subculture who love aniime amongst youth. They gather sometimes.
>I have the impression that the majority of arabs "believe", for else they fear private sanction imposition from society and being ostracized by religious relatives and social institutions rather than from sincere belief. This spawns aggression and insecurity in society, constant fear, driving people batshit crazy.
I've never gone to an Arab country. Arabs probably have it a lot harder. (except in some looser countries like Egypt or Lebanon)
>Are my impressions any true?
Some of them, but it's not black and white. In Turkey it's pretty tolerant but unfortunately very slowly creeping back into society via policy thanks to the present government.
Good day.
I live in istanbul and it's full of drugs, trannies, lgbt people, anarchists and socialists, and every other type of fuckery freely manifesting here. As long as you don't speak up against baba erdogan and his puppets you can suck a feminine penis while shooting up in some alley and the only thing police will do is to keep you in jail for 12 hours then leave you out after taking the "fine" out of your wallet. Feels free just enough but it seem it's going to change soon because power seems to have gotten into erdogans head and he's trying to make himself into some sort of neo-caliph.
Dad's family lives in Jordan. From my experiences, it's kinda like Russia. Being a fag is wrong, men are manly and woman are there to please men. Anime and shit is relevant over there, but they're like 10 years behind everyone else.
>>67883119
Thanks for replying here. A couple more questions.
What's the opinion of majority regarding Erdogan's presidency in your country? Is it true that he is reverting Turkey into a more religious state from a more secular one by his internal policies?
Do Turks from small and big cities differ by their perception of politics? Do you have your own turkish brand of rednecks (we call these sort of people "vatniki" in Russia) and your own brand of hardcore liberals?
>>67881813
we have 14% of population that are muslims, ask all of this around yourself
>>67883534
Well, our muslims are kinda different.
Tatars are super secular, I know it for I am myself a quarter tatar. You can even barely call them muslims, for vast majority of people in Tatarstan treat Islam like Christianity is treated in big societies i.e. they don't really practise it.
North Caucasus is more hardcore, but still young guys/girls from big cities have a tendency to lose religiousness.
Also, North Caucasians live really concentrated in their federal subjects, so about 10-12% of these 14% actually live isolated and almost like separate countries.
That kinda makes your point irrelevant.
>>67883395
Lol, how'd they live like that if the King of Jordan looks like a western businessman and his wife wears makeup and doesn't even wear a scarf?
I mean, the rulers of Jordan look like the most secular leaders out there, I don't see how their society doesn't lose religiousness.
>>67881813
>Are horrors of islamic society exaggerated?
Yes and no. Yes, there's still some sort of normality of life in Muslim countries, generally speaking it is not as bad as it being shown in media. No, because of the Islam part, when it comes to ethics, traditions and blind faith. For example, ISIS didn't just come out of nowhere, it needed the right environment for it grow and here where the horror shows, the amount of apathy Muslims show towards others who disagree with them can be disheartening sometimes and even fucking scary.
>Do many people legitimately believe in Allah or the majority just pretends to because they don't want to face punishment?
This is a toss up, I will speak for my community, we have conservative and traditionalist Muslims a good portion of our society is, that's why Hamas won an election, and I am pretty sure such population exists in all Muslim countries which is the reason why Islamic brotherhood won all elections of countries that have been involved in Arab spring. The other part of the population is less religious, rarely prays but still feel very attached to the religion especially when they feel their faith is being attacked or questioned. The small minority is liberal, open and lives in enclaves, and they are usually better off and educated.
>Are there lots of people among the university graduates, who secretly disbelieve?
It varies, when it comes to uni students here, they belong to the second part of the population, they are less religious, rarely pray..etc and come back being muslim again when their faith is questioned or threatened.
part1/2
>>67881813
I would like to hear UK & German pov
>>67883492
you're welcome,
>What's the opinion of majority regarding Erdogan's presidency in your country?
Apparently in lesser educated small towns he has a decent backing. In the big cities it's amazing how much they hate him. Everywhere i go i hear people cursing him. kek.
tbqh i don't know how he received over 50% of the votes, many people believe he cooked the elections... and there is very substantial evidence in favor of this.
>Is it true that he is reverting Turkey into a more religious state from a more secular one by his internal policies?
Yes, if his policies will continue, we will begin turning it into a serious shithole.
>Do Turks from small and big cities differ by their perception of politics?
Absolutely. Big cities = higher average education. They know the shitty tricks and they love to gossip, so everyone knows what's going on. I'm sure it's the same in Russia.
>Do you have your own turkish brand of rednecks (we call these sort of people "vatniki" in Russia) and your own brand of hardcore liberals?
heh, yes for Turkish rednecks they usually imply 'villagers', for Kurdish rednecks they would call them 'kiro'. There are liberals as well, these are usually Kemalist, some various shades of socialist, usually liberals align with the second most populous party; CHP, which was the political party that Ataturk founded.
btw Tatars are well regarded here, they have a good intelligentsia.
Cheers.
>>67883534
I'm sure there is a slight difference due to different political environmerents and recent memory of religious purges. I recently saw a poll of Russian religous groups and most say they are 'spiritual but not religious'.
>>67881813
I'm a 20 year old lebanese guy who wasn't born/raised up here, but who came back to the country 2 years ago to further his education. I'm muslim, and I have seen what it is like to live with muslims(mostly my cousins), but I primarily live among christians now because of the location of my university. You can AMA.
FYI, lebanon is 50/50 muslim/christian so my replies may not be the most entirely accurate about " primarily islamic countries".
>>67884330
Holy shit a noncountry with a flag.
>>67884528
most accurate*...typo
So you guys fully follow Islam or are just Muslims becuase of tradition?
>>67884330
>Can you watch animu without the fear of being persecuted?
Anime unless hentai isn't that of an important thing, and in fact the biggest kids channel in the MENA region used to air anime shows 24/7 for years, that's why you have many arab weebs on /mena/.
>I have the impression that the majority of arabs "believe", for else they fear private sanction imposition from society and being ostracized by religious relatives and social institutions rather than from sincere belief. This spawns aggression and insecurity in society, constant fear, driving people batshit crazy.
I don't think that's very accurate, but there's some truth to it. Fear played a strong role in protecting Islam status as untouchable subject. But, after a lot of time has been passed people mentality changed to be more acceptable of that status and even becoming themselves the ones emitting that sort of fear on others. There's a growing segment of the youth population who are less are religious and even smaller segment of those who are atheists, this happened before in the early 20th century and just as before the problems facing such group is that they have no clear cultural leadership or even dominant school of thought, they are just living in chaos of what their rebellion against tradition is leading them, and many of them will end up being back to conservative Muslim group again, and so the circle continues until there's a new wave of arabic cultural production and or strong Islamic reform movement.
>>67884158
His mom is British
>>67881813
Algerian diaspora here, say hello to cultural enrichment
>Are horrors of islamic society exaggerated?
Yes, life is the same than your country (perhaps with less vodka and more tea).
>Do many people legitimately believe in Allah
Yes they are mostly religious, but there are few apostates (atheist), generaly viewed as dégénérâtes by the rest of the population, not completely persecuted (except in KSA I suppose)
>Can you watch animu without the fear of being persecuted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeE0Xgi4S2k
muh persecution.
But if you like moeshit and yurishit-anime don't talk openly about your hobbies outside..
>Are my impressions any true?
Completely false dude, I don't know where did you get your informations but you should change your sources.
>>67884528
Are there any tensions still between Christians and Muslims there?
>>67884700
A lot of us are just Muslims because of tradition, especially the new generation. Almost of of Muslim friends, me included, do not pray or practice Islamic traditions or whatever. We party a lot and my friends drink alcohol, although I don't because I dislike the taste. However, a lot of the Muslims in the south of the country(mostly in rural areas) are very religious.
>>67885100
Honestly, I never follow what they say, to me it all sounds like gibberish so I just scroll pass their replies most of the time.
>haritau unime kashu
wtf is that shit.
>>67881813
You will hear no truth from Muslims in Muslim countries for they fear being accused of apostasy. They will also lie to make you think Islam is okay.
>>67883119
Sound pretty shitty
>have to conform to state religion
>have to hide watching anime
There is a reason why westerners hate Islam
>>67885027
Nope, not really. Like I said, it's the old generation of Lebanese people that gives a damn about your religion/sect. The younger ones don't really care. My girlfriend is christian, as are most of my friends, and it's not a big deal even though I have a Muslim name(no, not Muhammad :p). Although it still is pretty difficult for a Muslim and a Christian to get married here due to family tensions and legal issues.
Contribootin.
We are borderline muslim country. Islam here is perceived as part of tradition and it is secular for the most part. But of course there are shitholes who are going extreme ISIS style last few years. Many of them are really uneducated backward inbred subhumans who can't get a job or gf\wife so they see this as alternative. Also it is not helping that fucken US lapdogs Saudis are sponsoring them and pushing their own brown skinned bearded bearded scum.
Generally not bad but it can get bad fast if they tip the scale.
>>67884955
>>67885325
Lol! Okay, if you say so. All of us are brainwashed bla bla bla.
>>67884723
So you have an impression of slowly decreasing religiousness among the youth? I mean, does it feel like Islam is slowly becoming a symbol instead of pure religion for young people?
There was a report somewhere about a staggering decrease in mosque attendance in Iran among the teenagers, I believe,
What's your personal outlook? Will the gulf states slowly secularize due to economical challenges and spreading western culture? And by slowly I mean really slow. Or is it going the other way around?
lol all these fuckers pretend. ur nothing but a kuffar in muslim eyes. turkey is mordor. i'm turkish and sunni AMA
>>67881813
Are there lots of people among the university graduates, who secretly disbelieve?
Anyone who disbelieves here, is open about it. and whoever poersecutes you for it, taken straight to jail (aka freedom of religion in constitution)
Are horrors of islamic society exaggerated?
yes,
Can you watch animu without the fear of being persecuted?
you can.
>>67885492
I'm serious
lol all these faggots pretend to be friendly. u'r nothing but a kuffar in muslim eyes who deserves to be stoned to death here come truths from muslim. im sunni muslim from turkey AMA
>>67881813
I grew up in one due to my parent's circumstances, it's shit.
>>67885606
I'm shia muslim from lebanon AMA
>>67885257
what is the average Palestinians view of the average American? Aside from the baby boomer generation, we tend to view the Palestinians in a very positive light. In fact some friends of mine hold a free Palestine demonstration at one of our major intersections several times a year.
>>67885606
get a load of this shitstick
>>67885690
How is Saudi Arabia viewed in your nation?
>>67885648
Tell me more about your personal experience, perhaps.
I am not biased to support any point of view, this thread is intended purely for speaking out about you own personal opinion, for this makes me curious.
>>67885389
ah, that's cool. thanks anon.
>>67885515
As I said, this phenomena "teenagers becoming less religious" happened before, and even on greater scale, for example the arab world in 60s 70s had a bigger and even more liberal wave of youth than we do today, but nothing came out of it, as they grew older they returned to Islam, and same can be said about whats happening in Iran. We need a strong cultural movement that help retain that waves of progress we have every few decades in the Arab world, yet nothing happens and it won't happen anytime soon tbqh with you, we don't have what it needs for such movement to occur now.
>>67885759
Average tend to have normal or positive opinion of Americans but very, very negative opinion of the American government.
>inb4 No, Islam is great, the problem is really those fucking ______. _______ are responsible for all the violence, we should kill all _______!
Forget religion for about a minute, Arabs can't ever admit any fault. Expect them to all point fingers at each other blaming some *other* group for it all.
Is it better to live in Christian countries or Muslim ones?
Why do those who live with the benefits of the West think that those benefits will not fade if a western country becomes Islamic?
>>67885827
They are despised by both Muslim sects, especially Shia Islam. But a lot of our Sunni politicians, and Sunni citizens to some extent, are supporters of Saudi. Their more extreme version of Islam, as well as their treatment of women, are often made fun of by our satirical shows on TV.
Some of my friends in university have lived in Saudi and they genuinely hated their lives there. Mainly due to the lack of freedom and interaction between the 2 sexes, since women are severely oppressed there.
>>67886039
No one ever admits fault
>>67886156
Yes I hate that my government is so buddy buddy with the Saudis. I guess cash is king.
Is there much of an ISIS presence in Lebanon? I know Damascus and Assad's regime to your East is a pretty good buffer but still...
Interesting thread, OP!
Are there any other muslims from Arab countries here? Turks, Bosnians and Libanese don't really count, although your views are interesting as well of course.
I have a few questions of my own that someone could perhaps reply to
>Do you already know who you will marry/are you married? Was that marriage arranged in some way or is it to someone whom you are related to?
>Do you believe that there is discrimination in your country against non-muslims (or shia-muslims)? If yes, do you believe such discrimination is justified?
>Do you think poor education (read: stupidity) and religios conservatism/extremism are related?
>Do you truly believe there is a God? Do you pray and feel like He's listening and that in the afterlife you will be rewarded? Does your answer to these questions apply to the general population as well (as in, are you all as religious as media often portrays you to be)?
>If you have any contact with Muslims that are living in Western countries, do you think they are generally more religous/conservative than in your home country?
>Do you think Muslim/Arab countries would be receptive to European Christian/atheist immigrants if they were escaping a war seeking asylum to the extent that European countries are (assuming you have economies on par with European countries)?
>Do you/the broad muslim population in your country believe that maltreatment of non-believers is justified and that it is only fair that they are subject to discrimination and even death for no reason other than not being a Muslim?
>What are your views on apostacy?
>Your own country aside, which country do you believe is politically and ideologically the best in the world?
>>67886002
I can understand why. So would you say that opinion carries over to Israel as well? Ive seen on the TV where the citizens in the two nations harbor no bad feelings towards the other. Is this true or more propaganda?
>>67885606
>a wild roach appears
>>67881813
>I'd like to ask those of you, who live in primarily islamic countries and/or have arab/turkish/kurdish/etc. roots what's the life like in your country for an average citizen from your personal experience.
Life is pretty normal here. You will be fine as long as you abide Sharia law and pay your jizya.
>>67885606
how does it feel to be a mutt?
>>67885858
Grew up having to learn arabic and to learn muslim cultures and traditions but I'm not muslim.
Due to religious circumstances, everything is banned there. No fireworks, movies are banned and cut up, holding hands in public was banned and the would marry you up due to a passage in the book of Quran, no alcohol and shit.
It's literally no fun allowed the country.
>>67885606
Even a roach would consider you as cancer
Also w8kb8m8
Another question I'd like to address to sandanons here.
Do you have an impression of chain effect in islamic fundamentalism? I mean, I see it this way: there was an inherent instability in the Middle East due to the end of colonial era, which resulted in multiple conflicts, many of which are chronic in nature. Due to sheer economical resources of the region, many big nations intervened, resulting in even more casualties.
Islamic fundamentalism started developing then as a form of reactionism and got its traction from people, who had nowhere to go and nothing to lose. In turn, anti-islamic reactionism started propagating in the West due to deterioration of the islamic image and terrorist acts.
Right now it feels like a spiral, where one side is a reaction to the other and vice-versa. Islam right now is the way it is due to really harsh political and social climate the region faces and the West right now is turning all right-wing as a reaction to the current archaic state of Islam. But such perception by the the West discourages it from developing the secular way.
It's like a cycle. The West is harsh because there are Islamic terrorists, Islamic terrorism exists because the West is harsh.
Is there a potential for to this to stop and Islam to secularize back to the state of pre XIX century anytime soon? Or will it continue untill the Israeli-Palestinian conflict resolves?
Your thoughts.
>>67886646
Sounds like Saudi Arabia. The rest of the GCC isn't as bad.
>>67886570
There's a minority which thinks death to all jews, of course these faggots exist, and it exists on the opposite side. I think slight majority of Palestinians,I won't say big majority tho, have a human view of Israelis, they don't tend to see them in a negative light, quite the opposite for many of them, as they often shine the light on the positives of the Israeli society (less corruption, better healthcare, better economy, better education..etc) and compare it with their Palestinian surrounding which ends up with them thinking of Israelis are superiors and better to be dealt with than locals, and you'd be surprised how widely held this belief is among working class in the west bank at least. So, it is complicated, I can't deny that we have extreme views, but we also have lots of good views, but the overall majority agree on hating the occupation.
>>67886443
I think there is, but a lot of the supporters of ISIS are Syrian(and Palestinian) refugees, and most are pretty low key nowadays because they are scared of getting persecuted by the government. That said, they mostly agree with the ideology of ISIS, not with their violence, as they do not go around chopping people's heads off.
>>67886921
It's an asian country that worships Saudi Arabia.
>>67884506
> Russia and Turkey having a civil conversation
I find this funny
>>67886127
It will take decades even with a lot of energy invested in it. Don't tell me that you actually believe memes here.
This last wave of militants that EU is receiving will be used when necessary, but their objective is not taking over but instead to instigate chaos. Happened here already and we were a good experiment.
1. - multi tutti fruity society
In our case it existed already so it was a good research base.
2. Islam by it's nature is all in one package spiritual and ideological basis similar to communism
3. Christianity is on the other hand opposite and relies on national\ethnic unity
3. The elders aka joos gather minorities that shit sling everyone with, well, shit
4. On top of it use external geopolitical and economical mechanisms to further stir up the shit.
5.???
Profit, you got Balkanz 2.0.
Sorry I am on phone.
I'm an Indonesian muslim, largest muslim country in the world. AMA!
>>67886497
Lost of question so my answer will be short
>>Do you already know who you will marry/are you married? Was that marriage arranged in some way or is it to someone whom you are related to?
Nope, arranged marriage is way less popular than it was before, and it is mostly confined to rural and conservative parts.
>>Do you believe that there is discrimination in your country against non-muslims (or shia-muslims)? If yes, do you believe such discrimination is justified?
I don't think there's a discrimination against Christians in Palestine, but I think there's some false beliefs towards them and also some prejudices held by some conservatives.
>>Do you think poor education (read: stupidity) and religios conservatism/extremism are related?
Yes
>>Do you truly believe there is a God? Do you pray and feel like He's listening and that in the afterlife you will be rewarded? Does your answer to these questions apply to the general population as well (as in, are you all as religious as media often portrays you to be)?
Fedora
>>If you have any contact with Muslims that are living in Western countries, do you think they are generally more religous/conservative than in your home country?
I met a few, and I'd say they are more or less the same in some way, but the difference is their view of "Umma" as in the Islamic nation as a one nation. In Palestine we only taught that as just a story of times of muhamad.
p.1
>>67887234
Nice to read you, shukran for the contribution anon
>>67881813
Nice job for the thread OP
>>67886497
>>Do you think Muslim/Arab countries would be receptive to European Christian/atheist immigrants if they were escaping a war seeking asylum to the extent that European countries are (assuming you have economies on par with European countries)?
I don't know the answer to this, since it is very hypothetical, and in the case of my community we aren't in a normal position to predict for you their reaction.
>>Do you/the broad muslim population in your country believe that maltreatment of non-believers is justified and that it is only fair that they are subject to discrimination and even death for no reason other than not being a Muslim?
I think they mostly view non believers as crazy or misguided rather we should kill these faggots, even though some who has this mentality exist.
>>What are your views on apostacy?
obvious from a previous answer.
>>Your own country aside, which country do you believe is politically and ideologically the best in the world?
I don't think there's one at the moment. But I like shit from different countries, like direct democracy in Switzerland, French and Italian culture, arabs hate for crime *not applicable to all locations*..etc
>>67886969
I hope if they ever do decide to rear their head your government will be quick to deal with them.
How is your Christian population dealing with these ISIS militants and their supporters? As a Christian, I worry for them.
>>67887164
Why are shia muslims hated so much in your country?
>>67887148
I wasnt particuarly talking about the refugee crisis.
I was talking about those who live the West and want it to be Islamic.
They flee persecution and restrictions in their own countries into countries founded on Christian principles and yet want those countries to turn Islamic.
Will it not be a matter of time before they bring the same persecution they were fleeing from; as did the pilgrims when they landed in America.
>>67887164
Indonsian muslims need not apply. You guys aren't violent. You aren't sand niggers.
>>67881813
>I'd like to ask those of you, who live in primarily islamic countries
It's OK, I guess.
>>67887234
Palestinebro uses Fedora meme. My life is complete
>>67887460
you are welcome
>>67887640
There are various violent jihadist groups in Indonesia...
There are secular Muslims who go about their business
Then you have the WASSAP MONEY MONEY ones
>>67887585
Well not all of these countries are full shariya mode but some are true shitholes when it comes to respecting basic human rights.
Lebanon, Turkey, Syria(use to be) are not so far off from typical "western" values a bit south i am not sure what kind of shitstorm is brewing but i believe it's bad.
>>67885930
So you think Islam needs some kind of centralization for secular reforms (the Islamic version of Renaissance perhaps) just like it happened to Christianity?
I know that secularization and liberal reforms attempts happened before, but I assume they had failed due to wars primarily. I think the Islam is hostile because the region itself faces multiple challenges during this century. It's like Dark Ages Europe as I see it.
The borders constantly change, population flows and surges in and out, general lack of central power in the region and inherent hostility between various versions of Islam.
I think the current state of Islam is not due to its teachings per se, but due to lack of opportunities and instability.
If the same number of wars and border changes happened in Europe, you would see Christian terrorists, fundamentalism and breeding rates in Europe as you see now in the Middle East.
it is not about race/religion and shit, people are inherently the same in their flaws, as history has shown numerous times.
it goes in fucking cycles: one civilization develops rapidly, while the other has resource and opportunity deficiency. Once it reaches the tipping point, bearded and angry desperate people with shitload of kids assimilate and spawn a new civilization. The previous strong civilization gets destroyed, but it leaves remnants and it's population starts restoring (because people breed more in harsh conditions) until they turn into bearded batshits and destroy the previous bearded batshits, whom turned civilized.
Ok, too much bullshit written.
Just tell me about your perception of the current state in historical frame.
>>67888032
>Well not all of these countries are full shariya mode but some are true shitholes when it comes to respecting basic human rights.
>some...
most
>>67886899
> Islam right now is the way it is due to really harsh political and social climate the region faces and the West right now is turning all right-wing as a reaction to the current archaic state of Islam. But such perception by the the West discourages it from developing the secular way.
I don't think that problem as recent as you think it is, Islam has been in decline since 800 years or more. The problems we face in secularizing Islam aren't predominantly related to western influence as you might think, but more due to society structure and Islamic teachings. Take for example peaceful Islamic countries who have been independent for decades, why haven't been there an Islamic reform? It is a complicated issue and not as simple as just bad imperialists fucked up the region, or bad mongols before them. The west does play a role in the fucked up condition the region is in today, but for Islam to change or for Muslims to change, lots of shit needs to be addressed, society needs to change lots of things about itself. Islam needs to be open for critique again, and that ain't gonna happen soon with the current form of our societies. One particular effect that I think plays a role in the continuity of traditionalists being able to pass on their conservative heritage effectively is lack of independence among youth. Youth in the Arab world rarely leaves the authority of their parents, and thus they are always under pressure to follow the norms their parents impose on them. So as you can see, small things also contribute to the lack of progress in the Muslim world.
>>67888182
It's always same shit. At least you should know you guys tried to change shit in your country so many times and it was never implemented well as it sounded. Reason for this is shitty averaging of the population. If your average peasant can't rationalize and comprehend the idea that it needs to gollow to achieve common goal you will get half assed result if any.
Reason why "west" was more successful in implementation was because they invested time to raise the bar in every segment of culture and education.
>>67888344
That is your opinion, but if you are counting the countries that US recently liberated i am sorry but these do not qualify.
>>67885160
> However, a lot of the Muslims in the south of the country(mostly in rural areas) are very religious.
Feels good.
t. Ali fan club member.
>>67888182
What you said is somewhat true, but to add something, Islam had a 'renaissance' movement hundred of years before Europe, it was called Mu'tazila and they came up with an extensive reform and philosophical changes of the religion itself, for example considering Quran as a 'creature' and by that they didn't mean it is a biological creature, they meant that Quran was a creature made for a particular period of time and we should consider it as more of a spiritual book than law book. They disappeared not because of wars, but because of lack of communication with the Muslim public, they were popular among elites and even the Caliphs, but they failed to understand that change comes from below not above and so when the last Caliph who supported them died, the movement died with him. And what followed was a fall of critical thinking movements all over the Islamic world from India up to Andalusia. Wars and division of the Islamic world and the destruction of cultural centers played another role in preventing such movements from returning again and it led to them being forgotten. Also, the rise of military empires (Mamluks, Ottomans) led the Islamic thinking to be constrained and limited to traditionalist thought, as the rulers thought it is an important tool to control the masses. Back to recent period, and the Muslim world didn't catch a breath to start any movement that's substantial, from world wars to colonialism to wars of independence, to dictatorship, to poverty, to deteriorating school of thought in Islam and rise of Wahhabists supported by oil money. And this is the problem that's facing both reformers and those who are asking for reforms but refuse to admit it, they think it is going to be an over night transformation which is delusional. For such thing to happen you are going to need a reformed society first, and thus we shouldn't be waiting for a grand reformer but a successful Muslm community realizing it needs to change.
>>67885690
Lak ro7 allah ye7mik.
>>67885606
>u'r nothing but a kuffar in muslim eyes who deserves to be stoned to death
Yep you're a Turkish cockroach alright.
Good bread 2bh.
I actually have more questions for Muslims living in the West than I do ones that live in the ME/Asia.
Like why do they believe everything the Jewmedia tells them when they hate Jews? It makes no fucking sense. Maybe they just believe the parts they want to believe.
>>67889430
>>67889361
>>67888838
How many years until Islam becomes as weak as christianity?
Where your religion is just an extra to your life,
where nobody really believes that t. mohammed flew to the moon and cut it in two
where the youth cares more about weed and money than about heaven and god
where the scriptures in your book become so out of date & out of touch with the population that you all slowly come to accept it's metaphorical
Because I have studied this in christianity, and I suspect it'll happen to islam too,
Islam is a lot more about brothership and struggling than christianity, you've got that going for you, but the scriptures are also a lot more out of date, the old testament is only taken seriously by 5% of the christians, yet all the outdated contents of the koran are still part of your lectures+teachings.
>>67889836
Not all muslims hate jews, this is such retarded image because of Israel\Balestine shit. They follow the same religion basically with very fucking similar customs.
>>67882410
Prob US military stationed there.
>>67887007
Pakistan?
>>67890169
>How many years until Islam becomes as weak as christianity?
Its already beyond corrupt and weak, just give it a few generations more.
>>67890245
The ones I've worked with (Pakis) do and I jokingly asked this Muslim girl(Non Paki) if she wanted to get a bacon burger after I got out of temple to see how she'd react and she said "we can't eat bacon and Muslims don't like Jews!" I've never known a Muslim that liked Jews.
You're in Bosnia, you don't count. We're talking about real sand people here.
>>67887164
What do you think of the Dutch and Chinese?
>>67890476
what makes you say that as a muslim?
Very interested in this subject because my school is 90% muslim
pic related, it's my class.
>>67890169
Everything rises and falls eventually. Islam is a bit younger tradition but with global means of communication i give it 75 to 100 years to become fairy tale for kids. In our case we have experience with christianity before islam so here it's just another story.
When it comes to arabs this is pillar of their culture, if there was no islam they would never be able to rise as culture and would most likely disapear centuries ago. They take this a bit more seriously.
>>67890169
I think at some point during the second half of this century, it will be in some places, but this's just a prediction.
>>67890712
Since the time of paganism, followed by the Abrahamic religions, history has taught us that no matter how pure a religion is it will always be corrupted by man.
For me, there is no difference between Norse paganism, Christianity, Islam, etc... They all teach/used to teach locals a certain way of life in their environment, they are all a shadow of their original self to a certain extent, once man gets a hold of religion he warps it into a tool of personal gain and control.
So yeah, Islam right now is more than corrupted; on top of being divided into several factions, each faction further divides its own version into smaller versions. There are about 100 versions of Islam in the modern day world, and people who still blindly follow the teachings of a fractured religion are retarded, same applies for Christianity. No religion is worth following to a full extent, so the best thing you got going atm is carrying the positive teachings of your own religion and using them to fight corruption and degeneracy, no religion is the "true" religion, and Muslims are starting to wake up to this fact.
I was born in Algeria, moved here when I was 2, because of the islamic terrorists threatening my family (which were called opposition and militants at the time looking at you France and UK). The rest of my large family still lives there, 90% are in the military doing everything to protect the country. Feel like shit for not helping, but at the same time I'm 100% integrated here and ALL my friends are white since when we moved here in 1990 there was almost no north africans here (berber not arabs...), my whole life is here and feel like a true canadian even though I'm still proud of my origins. Still agree with what /pol/ think about muslims in general, but still think that with time religion will take less and less space as people aspire to other things in life. My 2 cents.
>>67890477
I am not sure probably it's the jew "help me help me i am being opressed" media orchestrated by Israel to hoard them up in there that cause this in ME region. Jews here are integrated part of community for centuries and they rarely mention Israel or feel the hate from muslims. Actually they get along better than christos and mussies.
>>67890712
>Teacher
What country is that?
>>67890712
I've been to Holland a few times, great weed & great times. Didn't know there were so many Turks there.
They are the most racist people I've ever met, but otherwise really nice.
>>67883119
>>67884506
Those are good replies, but Turkey is nowhere near any other predominantly Islamic nation.
These were kinda expected as well:
>>67884955
>>67884723
>>67885587
Still reading more replies, nice thread btw.
>>67890531
Are there still Dutch in Indonesia?
>>67881813
>Are horrors of islamic society exaggerated?
largely
>Are there lots of people among the university graduates, who secretly disbelieve?
some of them pretend to be beleiving it since they dont want to upset their parents
>Can you watch animu without the fear of being persecuted?
nigga there are lotta weebs in muslim countries
even in saudi arabia
>I have the impression that the majority of arabs "believe", for else they fear private sanction imposition from society and being ostracized by religious relatives and social institutions rather than from sincere belief. This spawns aggression and insecurity in society, constant fear, driving people batshit crazy.
yeah arabs especially morrocan and tunusians have that shit
>>67883492
>What's the opinion of majority regarding Erdogan's presidency in your country?
when he came to office he was running the country good but after the gezi protest he went full insane dictator mode
>Is it true that he is reverting Turkey into a more religious state from a more secular one by his internal policies?
more like hyprocritial religious state since he is corrupt as fuck
>Do Turks from small and big cities differ by their perception of politics? Do you have your own turkish brand of rednecks (we call these sort of people "vatniki" in Russia) and your own brand of hardcore liberals?
theres 4 major branches
first, AKP voters which consists of durka durka illeterates and to those who got bought by the goverment
second, CHP voters basically kemalists and aegean people vote for them, weak opposition
third MHP, moderate islamic and hardcore nationalist party, their leader is basically puppet of Erdoğan and thats why the party wants him out and replace him with Meral Akşener
and 4th HDP which secularist thought they would be green party of turkey, well they thought wrong and the party itself encouraging more seperatism and chimping out
