What is "Democratic Socialism" and what makes it different from normal socialism?
Instead of the state simply forcibly taking your shit, people vote for the state to take your shit instead
>>67404971
first post best post
the voters are so lost they literally vote for the government to take their shit and redistribute it
really funny desu
have to be quite an idiot to support any form of socialism/communism
>>67404971
First post, best post.
/thread
>>67404815
It means still being clueless about economics
>>67404815
Its left wing corporatism.
>>67404971
/thread
but on a different note, "democratic socialism" is yet another statist term that is used to make people forget about Leninism, Maoism, and every other failed statist ideology.
>>67404815
It's some liberalism bullshit.
>>67404815
A democratic socialist is someone who wants to achieve socialism via democratic means, that is, they stand in elections on a platform of socialism and hope to be elected. This is quite different than "generic" socialism, which usually recognises electoral systems as being inherently oligarchic and so ecshews so-called "democratic" means of achieving power.
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>>67404815
Both are socialist in economic policy. The difference is how the government is structured. Democratic socialism uses a democratic system of gov't, while a pure socialist society does not. Maybe they use authoritarianism, maybe some kind of confederation of worker's soviets like the Russian Revolution ostensibly tried to implement, or maybe something else entirely.
>>67404971
It's achieving socialism by democratic means. And socialism is nothing more than a transitional phase of moving to communism.
>>67405140
The ones that vote for it don't have anything to take or are so cucked the WANT to give their shit.
I think a better term would be Voluntary Socialism
>>67404815
Basically like normal socialism accept your rights are slowly voted away instead of being slowly taken away.
>>67405140
You're an idiot.
>>67404815
It's just a stepping stone towards "normal socialism"
It means never having a net positive budget ever again
It means never repaying your debt
It means accepting mediocrity because there's never enough money to conduct a meaningful long term policy
Since the US have settled for mediocrity, it isn't far fetched that Sanders does so great.
t. Social Democratic hellhole with public expenditures as high as 57% of our GDP
>>67405811
Not all socialists are communists, some people seek socialism as an end in itself.
>>67404971
This is a good post.
Democratic socialism is like Norway and Sweden. Where instead of revolution socialism is attempted through reforms. For example agreeing that there is a minimum existence that everyone have a right to have. For example no homeless and build everything from bottom up. Which is why in Norway and sweden you pretty much only see middle class, rich upper class and the filthy rich. There is no slums or real poverty.
I live in a area where at least 50% is either immigrant or second generation immigrant. It is a peaceful, no crime neighbourhood with tesla cars everywhere. Nearly everyone under 40 is educated (lawyers, doctors, engineers, journalists, scientists [ or a mix, like myself. I am a engineer that just got a paper published in the journal "Enviromental modeling and software"] and so on) AND employed. Free education, school, healthcare and cheap public transportation. There is excellent bus, tram and metro here in Oslo.
It also means that there should usually be a government alternative, which is why we have super fast, cheap internet with no data caps. Because the government ISP provide it and private companies have to do better than the government ISP. Which they often do, but the government ISP is indirectly controlled by votes so datacaps won't be a thing here.
>>67405163
Countries that DO follow social democratic economics are THE most sucessful countries in the world in all areas that actually benefit people like Education, living standard and so on.
>>67405396
Yes and to remind people of the sucessful socialist experiments like scandinavia. Where people like sanders still would be considered right wing.
>>67406347
Ebin slippery slope.
Capitalism = Private ownership of the means of production
Socialism = Social/Collective ownership of the means of production
Democratic Socialism = Society in which the Socialist mode of production is followed. Government is run democratically. Socialism is the economic system.
Social Democracy = Fundamentally capitalist society with a large welfare state and high taxation to redistribute wealth. Ex. Scandinavian countries.
>>67408150
>What is oil
>>67409390
That's just Norway.
>>67404815
Basically Seattle government. And it's failing.
>>67408888
this desu, hate when people call Denmark socialist.
>>67408150
well, democratic socialism sounds awesome.
bumping for interest and education.
there has to be some catch here though.
its not okay to just take money directly out of people pockets
>>67406622
Impossible to have a budget surplus long term when money = debt
>>67410199
>there has to be some catch here though.
Of course there is.
Norway only works because they've been flooded with oil money. The second that cashflow dries up their entire house of cards is going to fall.
It's easy to run a tiny country based around "give away money to everyone" when you have a faucet pouring money all over your tiny frozen shithole. Let's see what happens when the spigot is turned off and you have real bills to pay.
>>67408150
>Democratic socialism is like Norway and Sweden.
Old Swede Social Democrats absolutely loathes the term "Democratic Socialist".
It's a dogwhistle word for internationalist scumfucker like Palme who was the first to adopt that line.
>>67405614
right here
the rest of this thread is feelings bullshit
>>67408888
also, quads gets it
>>67409844
even if you don't have a socialist economic structure, you have a socialist/soviet style bureacracy which governs your countries.
you can't just make neat little categories and say "I totally don't belong there" because you do. sand niggers run around raping your women and you get arrested or killed if you speak against it. that's soviet, sorry dude.
Rule of law, accountability.
>>67408888
The quads of knowledge!
From a leaf no less.
>>67410565
This; there is a good chance that the state you live in is more populous than Norway, and it's gdp is much, much higher. They also have the 21st largest proven oil reserve, which damn near makes them a middle eastern country. Given size and wealth, the scandinavian model would be very hard to make work in the United States, not to mention the proponents of it here want more open immigration and aid to other countries, which complicates the process further.
>>67404815
Democratic Socialism actually work but only if you have a white monolithic culture
>>67404815
I believe that's the symbol of social democracy, not democratic socialism.
>>67404815
It means communism through democracy. Basically SJWism. They suppress dissent using violent mobs and then democratically elect socialists.
>>67405944
How is it voluntary for the millions of people that don't vote for it?
>>67410565
Don't forget how much they are taxed and how many different taxes there are.
That is why I hate socialism, even NatSoc got that part wrong. The government shouldn't be trying to control peoples freedom, which socialism inherently does. At least NatSoc doesn't lie and hide behind the guise of democracy, it just comes right out and says the government is in control and should be because people are too stupid, we are all working together for each other etc.... YET THEY STILL NANNY STATE THE FUCK OUT OF EVERYTHING. Hitler banned women from smoking while pregnant, on top of other nanny state laws. I am a nationalist, and don't get me wrong, I love what Hitler did and what he stood for, but I hate socialism. It just doesn't work.
Socialism only works when it is National Socialism, and the moment a few people aren't on board with the rest of the people, the whole nation within decades throws away nationalism and is just left with socialism.
also what this guy said >>67405811
>>67404815
As cara s I can tell they put infinitesimally more effort into the appearance of the people having a choice.
>>67411518
the same way it is for everything else in democracy
if thats your issue, its with democracy, not socialism
>>67405359
This x10000. I tell people this all the fucking time. It honestly should be renamed since it isn't fucking Socialism.
>>67409730
iktf
Our city council is the biggest waste of resources and DNA, and they just funnel other people's money down the shitter while they sit in their ivory towers not giving a fuck.
On the plus side, this city actually seems to be getting whiter, for all that's worth.
>>67410199
>there has to be some catch here though.
Yes. Inevitably, socialists run out of other's people's money. Socialism has never lifted an impoverished country out of poverty the way capitalism has. Socialism doesn't generate wealth and industry the way capitalism does (which is why the only socialist countries that do relatively well still have some free market aspects).
Capitalism builds poor nations up. Socialism takes what capitalism has created and then distributes it. Socialism only works in a country that is already wealthy, and then only continues to work as long as that country remains wealthy.
Places like Norway aren't rich because they're socialist. They're socialist because they're rich.
>>67412048
So if 51% of people vote the other 49% into slavery that's morally consistent under democracy?
>>67412048
Which is why the United States is a republic, not a democracy.
In a true democracy, if enough people vote to have your bicycle taken away? It gets taken away.
In a representative republic it doesn't matter how many people vote to take your bicycle away. Your bicycle is yours and no one else's. You have rights that remain inalienable and absolute even if the majority of voters disagree.
>>67404971
FPBP
>>67407061
It's really impossible in reality. As I said, socialism is just a transitional phase.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1321075/posts
https://romanticpoet.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/out-of-the-mouth-of-the-communist-party-usas-leader-socialism-leads-to-communism/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_history
http://astonegatherer.blogspot.com/2009/11/capitalism-leads-to-socialism.html
>>67412682
so in a country that has 19 trillion dollars of debt, like the united states, it wouldn't be wise to elect a democratic socialist
>>67409390
>>67410565
>>67410935
>>67411667
>>67412682
Also NATO. They don't have to defend themselves. America does for them.
>>67413535
I don't think it would be wise to elect one even if we were rich. Capitalism builds up, socialism squanders what capitalism has gained on short-lived luxury until the inevitable. At which point capitalism has to step up to bat again. Socialism only works under very specific conditions that never last. Capitalism works under all conditions.
But, yes. Some countries can handle socialism better than others based upon their wealth, size, and population. Norway is a very small, wealthy country. So socialism, at least for now, works well.
The United States is massive. The United States is in deep debt. The United States is riddled with areas in deep poverty with high violent crime rates, heavily populations, and few jobs. The United States also has to worry about the fact that it's expected to have a very powerful military that keeps distribution of military power in the world balanced. We don't have the luxury of being neutral or the luxury of not caring about having a powerful military.
The US right now does not need wealth redistribution. Welfare won't fix an impoverished city here. Only job creation will.
>>67412705
basically, yes
>>67404815
>PSOE
Liberal slightly sjw progressive fucks that are mainly supported by old people
>>67404971
First post best post.
Always pisses me off how marxists try to obfuscate meaning by arguing about what isn't communism, socialism, or democratic socialism. Socialists are always so quick to point out what isn't socialism, but will never give you an actual hard definition themselves.
They say democratic socialism, as if the fact that a party gets voted into power has any baring on the fact that socialism is a shit-tier economic system.
>>67415869
>Socialists are always so quick to point out what isn't socialism, but will never give you an actual hard definition themselves.
just like capitalists
>>67404815
They pretend they're not oppressive soviet commies by adapting to developed countries so people vote for them but in the end they're the same shit.
>>67404971
This lel.
>>67404815
Christ I hate that rose.
Same with the torch.
>>67416298
Capitalism is when trade and industry are voluntarily controlled by private owners for profit.
Where you seeing these capitalists who refuse to define capitalism?
>>67404815
I think it means mainly achieving socialism through democracy rather than violence. The end result is supposed to be the same.
>>67416916
>Where you seeing these capitalists who refuse to define capitalism?
/pol/
>>67417294
Well, we're on /pol/ right now. And on your first mention of what capitalism is you got a direct answer that strictly defined it.
You retard.
>>67417493
>>67408888
anything else nancy?
>>67404815
Any time some leftist promotes their idiotic pre-enlightenment ideology, remember that their endgame is always an all powerful all controlling state like communist Russia, communist China, communist North Korea, or communist Cuba.
Also, don't fall for the left's game of redefining things on the fly to fit whatever argument they're making at the time. Just look at the affordable care act, Obongo had his solicitor general argue that the law was legal before it was a tax, the next day they would argue that the law was legal because it wasn't a tax, it was just a fine, Scalia even called them out on this.
>>67404815
Can't wait to redistribute all tdem rich people's shit
I like the idea of socialism. But I don't like the idea of nonwhites and immigrants getting all the benefits. To me an ideal system would be a socialist country with a strong nationalist ideal.
>>67404815
They want to use political reform instead of violence because they operate in a country that has a strong violent right wing faction.
Yes it's really true. Every time they tried violence in Sweden they ended up being shot by military or police. It's been the same since the 1800s and still happened in 2001 at the EU summit.
They just can't get over it, and they still can't change it. I violent commie gets killed here, that's how it is.
>>67418618
national socialism, if you will.
>>67408150
>scandinavia
>succeful
Pick one, nigger. You are collapsing as we speak.
>>67404815
Same ideolog different tactics. We actually have a 'Socialist-Democratic' party over here.
>>67420835
sweden is
norway and denmark are fine
>>67421299
Norway is fucked, because they make living by selling oil, because socialism doesn't attract much business.
And now that oil is down the drain they are barely holding their shit together.
Denmark is a constitutional monarchy, that never recovered after 2008 crash and it's GDP is slowly sinking and happened to have a social-democratic party in power during that time. That is why the socialists were pretty much thrown out of the government.
They might yet fix the damage, but I doubt it.
