Genuine question, what is is about islam that makes so many of it's followers terrorists?
In this thread we will try and discuss resonably why, personally i think this new wave of extremism is still a direct cause of Saddam Husseins removal from power in iraq
>inb4 "not all muslims are terrorists!!!!!"
Compared to other religions/beliefs there are a lot more of them that are terrorists
>inb4 "terrorism has no religion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
When 99% of modern terrorists attacks are commited in the name of Islam i think it's fair to assume that is false.
>>55845116
Harsh land and culture, it hasn't modernised and won't modernise.
People tip toe around Muslims constantly and don't call them on their shit.
>>55845116
Not sure. Intending to read their holy book soon to see if that holds any clues. Any of you fags read it?
>>55845116
>When 99% of modern terrorists attacks are commited in the name of Islam
Give a legitimate source for your numbers.
It was created by a warlord who used it on the masses of savages in his land to rally them under his banner. He made it clear that you could join his religion and live comfortably, or die horrifically.
He would later use it to justify his sexual preferences and desires with prepubescent girls and goats.
Islam is literally all about emulating this man, and his medieval ideals were as much in direct conflict with European values then as they are thousands of years later.
So I have no idea! It's just radicals! Blame the Christians!
>>55845728
>>55845728
>>55845434
I have never read it myself but i doubt it has much to do with it, their holy book has existed for a long time and islamic extremism has only become big in the last 30 yers
Islam at its roots was based on conquest. After some back and forth wars it sort of just lied dormant for a few centuries. Then oil was discovered in the middle east and regional and western powers started fucking around there. The middle east got carved up and trampled down as a result. People turned to religion, as they do in times of strife, and the fundamentalists rose to power. Being a religion based on conquest, the fundies preached conquest and death to infidels and the people ate it up. Terror attacks against the west and their regional allies ensued, and in response the west and it's allies stepped up their carving and trampling game, which led to more extreme fundamentalism, and the cycle continues until the west either pulls out of the middle east or commits to total war.
Muslim here, I would like to quickly apologize for the events in Paris which I had no part in but am already being blamed for.
Its sad that my first reaction upon hearing of the attacks was deep dread. The first thing I did was pray that the attackers were not muslim and a sense of apprehension for the months that will follow.
The months that will consist of even more of my friends suddenly taking off their hijabs because they can't stand the eyes that judge every inch of their being based on a piece of cloth on their head. The months that will consist of racist and hateful comments made about an entire religion followed by nearly 2 billion but whose followers are already guilty by association.
The knowledge that these terrorist attacks are being committed every single day killing hundreds of muslim children, women, men, but knowing that won't matter as its already adamantly clear that one innocent life is more valuable than another due to religion, race, and economic status in life.
Muslims, prepare yourself for the backlash you will unfairly receive in the upcoming months, but never, ever apologize for something you did not do. I am not sorry that a bunch of extremist minorities hijacked my religion and used it as a guise for their written agenda.
I am not sorry that the media is adding to islamophobia and the publics prosecution and portrayal of muslims.
I AM sorry for every single life lost today, and every other day whether it be during the attacks or during everyday life in Syria, Libya, and every other country being massacred by a not-so hidden agenda. Finally,
I am not sorry for being muslim.
>>55846104
Thanks
>>55846104
Wow there were only 109 violent attacks since 2010?
Also if you look at perpetrators they are mostly organized in Al-queda or the IS.
>>55845116
>Genuine question, what is is about islam that makes so many of it's followers terrorists?
Does it? How many Islamic terrorists were there before 2000?
Terrorism became popular doctrine once it was popularized by the 11/9, once the fundamentalists realized they can create a lot of chaos with minimal resources.
because they are the niggers of sand
there you go
>>55847120
>How many Islamic terrorists were there before 2000?
It had been rising in middle east/arab countries for at least 10 years before 2000. 2001 was just the first time the west was exposed to itself to a large extent and that brought it to the world stage
>>55847173
go back to /b/
>>55847098
stay strong. not everyone here is a stormfag. your words actually moved me.
that being said... can you stop invading my country? pretty please?
>>55847098
You have half the countries in the world that you're welcome to live in. Canada is not one of them. White people and our traditional religion are generally not welcome in those countries. And we have no countries for ourselves. Our population is being replaced by foreigners in all of our countries. It should be fairly obvious why we hate you for being in our country. We don't hate you per se. We'd be glad if you left. If you choose to stay here, then you are an invader that threatens our traditional way of life, and you'll likely end fighting a war with us over it in the future.
We're not sorry for being whites or for wanting a country of our own.
>>55847243
I am not an expert, so you are probly right. But my point that, Mass spread of terrorist organizations amongst Muslims is recent phenomenom, stands.
>>55845116
I agree with you on Saddam Hussein. He was a tyrant, but he kept the likes of ISIS downtrodden. You can only deal with these people with force.
>>55847098
That pasta was done yesterday.
>>55847098
Atheist here. Well said.
>>55845116
It's a system of control designed for barbarians.
Its followers are all members of low-IQ races (jungle negros, sand negros).
It's like asking why track suits and gaudy jewelry appeal to stupid people. Some aspect of it appeals to inferior minds.
>>55846104
>Chechen seperatisty
Then the Irish separatists is Christian terrorists .
If Muslims are killed because of politics , everyone thinks that they are killing in the name of Islam. The Palestinians are killed for independence , but they are considered by Islamic terrorists . So almost everywhere .
>>55845116
Islam is a religion which dictates that followers of the religion are better than non-followers and there are decrees to kill, rape and loot resistants or tax the complacents for it.
Islam is a cancer to any open and free society due to their restrictions on action and their followers to alter their culture and way of life to be more in line with non-Islam cultures.
Islam is nothing more than a warlords guide to conquer and forcibly convert retards.
It needs to be wiped out.
Obama, first of all, is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists, maybe in history.
—Noam Chomsky (2013)
>>55847536
herp derp
Sunni are all the insane jihadist retards, Shia are more secular and pretty good and actually have organization, the west fears them more as a threat because they are. The US has manipulated and controlled plenty of militan Sunni groups forever.
Most people don't realize that though.
>>55845116
First, there is a key section of the Quran that needs to be addressed, that is Kitman & Taqiya. Now I will grant that there are specific denominations(?) and groups within Islam that denounce one or both of them, but the issue comes from the fact that it exists at all. Both of them refer to the practice wherein a Muslim may lie or even commit blasphemous acts against Islam for various reasons, primarily deception of infidels. These two ideas, while controversial in our modern time (and even to an extent at the dawn of Islam) are still found within the Quran. Specifically Sura 3:28 and Sura 16:106.
Regardless of the beliefs of various groups within Islam, should someone take a purist or "fundamentalist" view of the faith, these specific passages allow for them to lie about their true beliefs and to claim that they are not true, accurate, or commonly held. This presents a great issue regarding discourse between individuals because anything and everything that is said can be held in question.
With that out of the way, we can now look at the core beliefs that lead to Jihad and these acts of terror.
>>55847098
Pasta or not,
Just be aware that when people come out after these events and say that they expect more response from the Muslim communities, they're not expecting you to get on your hands and knees to apologize even harder for something you did not do.
What they are saying is that they expect you to either be open towards look at the religion itself for possible causes of this extremism or to step aside and let others have a dialogue about it without throwing around terms like Islamophobia.
Like it or not, Islam is a major contributor to the increasing attacks in the west and even average people are getting tired of being told that they can't talk why that might be, whether that is Muslims or their state media telling them not to.
>>55847988
The notion that religion and political authority, church and state, are different and that they can or should be separated is, in a profound sense, Christian. Its origins may be traced to the teachings of Christ, notably in the famous passage in Matthew 22:21, in which Christ is quoted as saying: "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s."
Most peoples in world history have not shared this understanding. In most societies, religion and government have been inseparably linked. This is true in Muslim society as well.
In pagan Rome, Caesar was God. Christians were taught to differentiate between what is due to Caesar and what is due to God. For Muslims of the classical age, God was Caesar, and the sovereign—caliph or sultan—was merely his viceregent on earth. This was more than a simple legal fiction. For Muslims the state was God’s state, the army God’s army, and, of course, the enemy was God’s enemy. Of more practical importance, the law was God’s law, and in principle there could be no other. The question of separating church and state did not arise, since there was no church, as an autonomous institution, to be separated. Church and state were one and the same.
This means that, in the historic Muslim understanding, Islamic society is or should be a theocracy; a society in which God himself is the monarch, reigning on earth through subordinates.
>>55847582
Before the events of 9/11, Islam was one of those "exotic" oriental religions. Its a cycle. 30 years ago communists terror organizations were active around the world, now its islamic terror organizations. I wonder which group will relieve Islam as the "villain".
>>55848099
In the earliest days of Islam, the subordinate was the prophet Mohammed, who founded Islam and conquered the Arabian Peninsula. Thereafter the subordinate was the caliphs and in the centuries after Mohammed’s death they expanded Muslim society by conquering peoples as far west as Spain and as far east as India. In the process, they absorbed half of Christian civilization. Eventually, the power of the caliphs waned, and new leaders—such as the Ottoman sultans—were the subordinates. Throughout it all, God himself was regarded as the ruler of Islamic civilization.
That Islam sees itself as a theocracy has enormous ramifications for how it regards itself and for the behavior of Muslims.
First, it means that Islam is not only a religion. It is also a political ideology. If the government of the Muslim community simply is God’s government, then no other governments can be legitimate. They are all at war with God. As a result, Muslims have typically divided the world into two spheres, known as the Dar al-Islam—the "house of Islam" or "house of submission" to God—and the Dar al-Harb, or "house of war"—those who are at war with God.
Second, it means that Muslims have believed themselves to have a "manifest destiny." Since God must win in the end, the Dar al-Harb must be brought under the control of Muslim government and made part of the Dar al-Islam.
Islam is a theocracy designed to give absolute power to their leaders.
>>55848175
Third, since the Dar al-Harb by its nature is at war with God, it is unlikely that it will submit to God without a fight. Individual groups might be convinced to lay down their arms and join the Muslim community by various forms of pressure—economic or military—that fall short of war. In history some groups have become Muslim in this way, either fearing Muslim conquest, desiring Muslim military aid against their own enemies, or.aspiring to good trade relations with the Muslim world. But many peoples would rather fight than switch. This has been particularly true of Christians, who have put up more resistance to the Muslim advance than have pagan and animistic tribes.
Because of the need to expand God’s dominion by wars of conquest, Islam’s ideology imposes on Muslims the duty to fight for God’s community. This duty is known as jihad (Arabic, "struggle, fight"). Although it is binding on all Muslims, it has been particularly incumbent on those on the edges of the Muslim world, where there was room for expansion. Only by continual jihad could the manifest destiny of Islam to bring the world into submission to God be fulfilled.
Jihad is a religious obligation. It forms part of the duties that the believer must fulfill; it is Islam’s normal path to expansion.
>>55847821
Cry harder churka, blowing up civilians somewhere thousands of kilometers away form your land does not make you a separatist, it makes you a terrorist
>>55845116
simple
europe = ege of enlightenment quite some time ago. we abandoned most of religious stigmata and made it a question of belief. everyone can choose to belief or not and social values are present without the need of religion.
middle east before oil companies went there = sandpeople who live like we did in the dark ages and worse. they may have gotten some technology but their human development didn't catch up. I mean come the fuck on they kill people for drawing allah.
like how liberals think that's not a thing.
>>55847098
>The months that will consist of even more of my friends suddenly taking off their hijabs because they can't stand the eyes that judge every inch of their being based on a piece of cloth on their head.
Yeah, fuck off. A couple things:
1. Oh no, your 'friends' will feel more inclined to integrate into the culture they live in. My heart truly goes out to you. I don't care about your 'customs', you live in Canada now.
2. Part of integrating into a country is making friends with the locals. All I ever see is roving bands of Muslims; very very rarely are they ever in groups that don't consist of their own people. You can't complain about feeling 'marginalized' if you confine yourself to the social outskirts.
Sorry in advance for the hard months I don't doubt you'll be having but come on man: you live in the west now, act like it.
Don't pretend like you're the first group of people that have had a rough time integrating into Canada. My ancestors are Italian and Irish, and they were fucking bricklayers in the face of people who largely viewed them as subhumans.
Stop with the victim bullshit, learn some history and deal with it.
>>55845116
The Middle East has been having its governments turn shittier and shitter since decolonization.
Secular Monarchy > Secular Dictatorship > Theocratic Dictatorship > Theocratic Mob Rule
>>55848240
Now this is rather different from the mindset of the average muslim today. There is good reason for this too:
In the seventeenth century it had begun to sink into Muslim consciousness that something was desperately wrong in the world. Though Muslim society had previously been more advanced economically and in some ways culturally than European society, it began to dawn on Muslim leaders that the barbarian infidels of Europe were catching up and in certain ways were ahead of Muslim society. This was absolutely devastating given Muslim self-perception; the triumphal advance of Islam seemed to confirm to Muslim minds that they were the chosen of God and that civilization itself was identical with Islam, with only ignorant barbarians and infidels outside its borders.
In "What Went Wrong?: Western Impact and Middle Eastern Response", Bernard Lewis notes that Christian Europe was seen "as an outer darkness of barbarism and unbelief from which there was nothing to learn and little even to be imported, except slaves and raw materials. For both the northern [European] and southern [African] barbarians, their best hope was to be incorporated into the empire of the caliphs, and thus attain the benefits of religion and civilization."
One issue is it is a fractured religion. It's not like Christianity, specifically Catholicism, where there's a clear hierarchy and everyone is mostly on the same page. Instead, Islam is split into a million different sects which all proclaim to be the true Islam, and any other sect to be apostates. This is why you have ISIS butchering other Muslims, because they weren't practicing the "correct" form of Islam.
>>55848345
Angry about the present and fearful of the future, Muslims began a process of introspection, explains Lewis.
"When things go wrong in a society, in a way and to a degree that can no longer be denied or concealed, there are various questions that one can ask. A common one, particularly in continental Europe yesterday and today in the Middle East, is: ‘Who did this to us?’ The answer to a question thus formulated is usually to place the blame on external or domestic scapegoats—foreigners abroad or minorities at home. The Ottomans, faced with the major crisis in their history, asked a different question: ‘What did we do wrong?’"
A debate followed, with various Muslims trying to analyze and propose remedies for the developing situation. "The basic fault, according to most of these memoranda, was falling away from the good old ways, Islamic and Ottoman; the basic remedy was a return to them. This diagnosis and prescription still command wide acceptance in the Middle East."
These twin explanations for the recent misfortune of Islam—that it was caused by a failure to observe Islam in its pure form and by the malicious meddling of foreigners (first Europeans and now Americans)—are precisely why ISIS and the like are on the rise, and have been for decades.
>>55845116
The decline of muslim power, especially since Napoleon marched on Egypt, sparked Islamic revivalism. This was seen with philosophers like Muhammad abduh and afghani. It was thought that returning to Islamic values would restore their standing. Which of course didn't work.
Then came a split between Islamic fundamentalists and Arab nationalists. For a long while, the nationalists prospered and any acts of terror were conducted do to effectiveness not religious fervor.
However, 1979 , with the storming of the mosque in Saudi Arabia, signified a shift toward radicalism. As time has gone on, radicalism has demonstrated to be the most effective means for resisting the west. In turn, it has further emphasized this religious view, both if which reinforce each other.
Tldr... terrorism is a result of muslim decline and western encroachment
Why are you asking us? You simply need to go read about what the koran and hadiths tell muslims to do and you will know exactly why so many muslims do what they do. Islam is a dangerous ideology much different from christianity, buddhism, etc.
>>55847098
How about you control your own religious followers? thats why we blame you guys. Because after every religious act that ends with violence in the recent century that the leaders have not apologized or try and distance themselves and try and control these radicals is islamic faith. You speak of apology but own up to bo accountability for there actions, you shift the blame from the tragedy to being persecuted in a vain attempt at having the pity party at your door because it wasnt "most of the islamic.faith". Germany owned up to the nazis and the church ha begun apologizing and stopping violent extremism yet i never see this from the islamic leaders. They speak in only more and more death. This whole war in the east could of been prevented if you guys did what you should of done and try and find and persecute these radicals.
>>55845116
Because of a combination of neo colonialism and jew destabilization of the Middle East. Propping up terrible war lords as long as they get along with the US and Israel, and if they don't oh boy you better watch out said nation,
Honestly, we don't have half of this shit happening to us and we still have our patriot movement and plenty of people in the US that hate the US gov and would like nothing other than it to perish so they can be left alone.
Honestly, it's less that they're muslim and more that they're sandniggers. I don't see too many of the white muslims beheading someone because they dared to suggest something haram.
>>55847098
If you really feel that bad that you're being blamed for the violent deaths of innocents, because murderers hide among your faith, then return to the east.
If you want to stop further attacks of people being butchered in jihad, then become part of the solution by stopping them from hiding among you muslim "bystanders".
You have the power to contribute to a solution, but you wont will you?
We have no other recourse other than to segregate you and you know it. And yet you wont step forward and make the sacrifice to leave for the better of others not of your faith.
So fuck you, go fuck yourself and the goat you rode in on you passive shitskin. You're as big a problem as the cunts pulling the trigger.
>>55845434
It has numerous verses that can easily be utilized by radicals. Some which is taken in context, but most is not
>>55848456
Very well said.
Wahhabism
>>55846460
You are fucking joking right? Muslims have been jihadist, sadistic terrorists since the batshit crazy religion was invented. The religion is founded on being the only religion and destroying anything in its path.
Mohammad was a callous torturing murderer warlord with a penchant for sex slaves and pre pubescent girls.
Most fucked up religion ever created.
>>55848268
This is political terrorism . He is not related to religion. Russian attacked Chechnya , Chechen civilians were killed in their homes. Russian to get a seat . This is politics, not religion .
>>55845116
Islam is an ideology of Conquest and those who say differently havent read any of the Koran - and are ignoring everything going on.
It is literally an ideology of conquest. When you understand that its pretty fucking easy to understand.
>peaceful muslims
Yea thats not actually a thing. I mean look at the countries run by that shit ideology - even the "moderate" ones.
>>55847098
So the first thing that went through your mind was "Hope this doesn't make Islam look bad!", not about feeling a deep hatred for the religious fanatics who would do such a thing? Hmmm...
Why do so many of them become terrorists? Because Islam is a death cult. Plain and simple.
Quran:
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day,
nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor
follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book,
until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in
a state of subjection.
[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this
world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah,
then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty
reward.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore
make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those
who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every
fingertip of them.
I could go on...
>>55848693
it's funny because usa does what you describe to a letter
is usa islam in secret? it looks like it, according to your definition of islam, and looking at the behaviour of the USA
>>55848693
I doubt that you ever read the Quran. How about reading the Talmud and not tell me how that is not a book of conquest and supremacy. Yes there are are peaceful muslims, so many in fact that if a tenth of the muslim population of the world wasn't peaceful that every major city would probably be ablaze.
Also Obama is a neo colonialist neocon POS who furthers interfering in the Muslim world.
The biggest "muslim" threats like Iran actually have a long history of the West fucking with them and those countries hardly if ever doing anything remotely proportional back.
>>55849004
nothing wrong with those verses
Well, their ideal man is a pedophile and a highwayman, so I'm sure that's no help.
>>55849173
Oh, it's like that?
OK, have fun against ISIS without our help.
Bitch.
>>55845116
>why are Muslims terrorists
Because it is the only way for Islamic warlords upset with the balance of power implemented on the Middle East after WWI to attack their enemies abroad. Without a standing army, they're utterly incapable of forming regiments and declaring offensive warfare by traditional methods, but by infiltrating their enemies cultural centers and striking them, the jihad of the Caliphate can inflict damage and present itself as a threat.
Honestly the idea behind this hasn't really changed in the last 1000 years. It's still an ongoing war between the Muslims and the Europeans that was never truly settled. WWI removed those damn Ottomans and their caliph buddies in Africa, but the pursuit of Islamic Jihad remains the same as it has since Mohammed declared the Ummah.
I think the removal of Hussein did help give power to the extremists, of course, similar to how the vacuum created in Afghanistan in the 80s did a lot to serve the interests of the jihad. It's happening everywhere there are a lot of Muslims and an unstable government. It's been happening in Africa, and the same shit goes down in Asia.
>>55849223
other than helping to outline the cancer that islam, yes there is nothing wrong.
>>55849223
Whatever you say Achmed
>>55849173
Syrian Refugee pls, get out of France and get the fuck back to your mohammadkek lifestyle in Turbanistan
>>55848442
Beautifully written and spot on
>>55849004
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
(1 Samuel 15:3)
Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
(Deuteronomy 17:5)
16. But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth…
(Deuteronomy 20:16)
>>55845116
The foundation of Islam is Arab imperialism
So conquest, slavery and the opposition between muslims and non-muslims is the center of the thesis
The quran is also said to be the direct word of god, unlike the bible which is a transcript from various religious people, it doesnt leave much palce to interpretation
>>55847098
When will you stop polluting the world? Go back to your muslim countries and cut off hands or hang gay people.
>>55845116
Unlike Christianity, Islam is a government as well as a religion. Christianity provides a moral compass for decision making, but doesn't bind your every action nearly as much, nor does it tell you exactly the form of government you must follow, nor does it demand conversion of non-believers, or demand that you believe they are less human than believers.
>>55847098
>>55849604
This is a quote from the Bible, if someone does not understand. I can continue.
>>55846087
>>55846104
You know, I always wondered about this.
Anytime I've tried to research it, I've always found tons of stuff about Islamic terrorists, but then there are articles like this that say the opposite.
>http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/01/08/3609796/islamist-terrorism-europe/
Are they playing some silly semantic game about motivations, where they say that Muslims suicide bombing infidels aren't "religiously motivated" but are a "separatist movement" ? Where's the gimmick?
>tfw the world was a much safer place with Arab dictatorships in charge
We have to go back
>>55845116
>Bible being revised multiple times to be up to date with current values (sort-of)
>Qur'an not being the subject of such revisions
>To separate moderate/peaceful muslims from the extremists, a new revised Qur'an has to be published
>Most, or even no muslim will accept the idea of "converting" to a faith that has been "corrupted by humanity.
This is one idea that I came up with and I shall make sure to at least try to do it once myself. Qur'an needs to be revised and update it to our current values. But even though it will hold and represent the BEST of Islam, they will still refuse to bend the knee because of their stubborn nature.
>>55849694
>Go back to your muslim countries
This was written by a Jew, who came to Palestine and established jewish orders in that country.
Funny you have a post of Saddam, when he as a POS near athiest fedora who hated the Persians and used US weapons and support to attack Iran and I'm sure that when you use a proxy to attack a strong religious group such as Iranian people, you can sit back, cry "stoopid muslims hate me for my freedumbs" when really, your jew run country has been selectively feeding radical groups support to destablize it in the first place.
Fucking 4chan, getting played again. You guys up for getting trolled by the Jesus hotline again?
>>55847098
Muslim Kekanada, check what I wrote earlier about the Qur'an. Share some of your opinions.
>>55849858
Oh I understand it alright. And so do many millions of other Christians and Catholics alike.
The difference is there is no organised slaughter or butchering of civilians in this modern day in the name of Jesus or God according to the Christian/Catholic faith.
If there is, it would pale in comparison to the slaughter committed by the muslim population, not in the last 10 years, not in the last 50 years, but in the last 2000 years alone.
In an ideal world, you'll all migrate to your own barren wasteland countries and slaughter one another until theres nothing left by blood and dust.
Just a pity you had to bring your bullshit over ot the rest of the world.
>>55845116
The middle east is an utter shithole. People in some countries such as Afghanistan aren't even aware there IS an Afghanistan. There's not much opportunity for progress there. So people probably do fucking whatever just for the chance to get off of their shitty farms
>>55850155
Plaestine is a geographical region and that name appeared much later than israel and judea.
There never was any country called palestine and never will be, since they themselves dont really consider themselves a single people.
>>55847098
Also
>"...I would like to quickly apologize for the events in Paris..."
>"... never, ever apologize for something you did not do"
CHOOSE ONE
>>55850350
The name of the place doesn't change the fact that they were there before Israel was created.
>>55845116
America.
>>55849920
A guy throwing a brick into a glass can be considered terrorism and it'll show up in the stats
It's an usual trick to say that's "Most terrorism isnt islam based" because of the definition
Now if you want Islamic terrorist to show up in the stats you have to look at the number of deaths and casualties
>>55850186
/thread
>>55850442
First of all Israel was here when arabs were still drinking their own piss in arabia.
Second of all, Indiands were there before the US was created. All countries are created through struggle and war. Get over it hippie.
>>55849741
>Unlike Christianity, Islam is a government as well as a religion
What is Vatican?
>Christianity provides a moral compass for decision making
So does Islam
>but doesn't bind your every action nearly as much
Depends on sect you belong to, same as in Islam
>nor does it tell you exactly the form of government you must follow
some Christian sects do
>nor does it demand conversion of non-believers
What are missionaries?
>demand that you believe they are less human than believers
What is the first commandment?
>>55845116
>what is is about islam that makes so many of it's followers terrorists?
The doctrine
>>55850563
Well in that case, stop crying about those rockets flying back. It's just struggle and war.
The reason is that the United States bombed the country and went home. The United States had to go home when these countries began a high standard of living. The United States had to help them develop. In Kuwait, the UAE, Turkey does not terrorists. In poor countries, where the US Army goes home, the power goes to the bitter partisans. In Islamic countries they are always religious fanatics. They always take revenge.
The source of all of the radicals Islam terrorists pulling people in started in 1948, when Israel became a country
>>55850563
No, actually. Religions that predate Islam, Christanity, and JEWdiasm, were there, for a long time, Palestine was occupied by jews, muslims, and christians, mostly muslims.
Most jews living in Israel literally have absolutely zero geographical link to the area.
>>55850350
The truth is the "Palestinians" are actually the poorer jews who the Roman's didn't have a beef and let them stay there.
And they have been there SINCE the Romans kicked your kike ancestors out for trying to start wars and bring down empires.
You kikes are STILL doing the same GOD DAMN THING that gets you exterminated EVERY FUCKING TIME!!
Do you never learn?
>>55847098
> not all mudslimes
> to scared to enforce sharia law
> what about the millions of our own we kill over islam?
> we are so oppressed.
GTFO of North America.
>>55849920
>article about Islam
>written by a guy name Beenish Ahmed
Yeah, real credible source
>>55850610
As a non believer of Islam in a non-muslim country, I can confirm that I have not been beheaded, stoned to death, persecuted, given mean looks or threatened in any way shape or form to convert to the local religion.
Go die in a fire for allah you shitskinned pedo
>>55850666
I dont cry about them, I cry about suicidal europeans that dont know whats good for them and are letting muslims in. Whereever there are muslims there is conflict. Asia, Africa, Middle east, Europe and soon probably North America.
>>55845116
This is how they think:
Those that are wealthy (the West, wealthy arab countries) are wealthy because they are corrupt, and being rewarded by Satan.
Those that are poor (them) are poor because they fell from the teachings of God.
Only by being more devoted to Islam, will God give them back their glory.
It sounds really stupid when it's summarized like this, but that's the gist of it.
>>55850828
And you have only your own country to thank for creating them :^)
>>55850722
Utter bullshit, both sefardi and ashkenazi jews can be traced to the levant area.
The kingdom of israel was around before any arab invasion which only happened in the 6th century onwards.
The tribes that were here during the kingdom of israel and Judea have nothing to do with what are called modern day palestinians.
>>55850285
>The difference is there is no organised slaughter or butchering of civilians in this modern day in the name of Jesus or God according to the Christian/Catholic faith.
Right, because they were all so effective at it in their dominions for 1000 years that by the end of the 18th century, it became a withering necessity to expand through slaughter.
No, the Muslims are pretty toe-to-toe with the Christians when it comes to genocidal conquest. They've both done in Africa pretty good, and whereas the Muslims have been pretty efficient as conquerors of Asia, the Christians have done the same to the Americas.
Of course the Christians in Africa are still pretty militant, going around tribe to tribe whacking people off.
Here in the States we may not have massacres in the streets in the name of Christianity, but they're just as insane as ever, with followers of Christ throwing temper tantrums over trivial matters like a lack of snowflakes on coffee cups.
I'm sorry. Christianity sucks. It has always sucked. I'm so very grateful that I live in a time where I can watch its followers humiliate themselves in this their gradual decline and loss of influence in popular society.
>>55850824
Thanks to our wonderfull atheism,
hope you enjoy it.
It's the black stone on the Kaaba. It's an ancient evil sealed away inside of this black meteorite, possibly alien in nature.
It control the minds of those who see and worship it, which explains why all Muslims have to go see it at least once.
It's been around and worshiped by local tribes since they lived in the region. Muslims believe it to be a piece of heaven, and say that it is the "ears, eyes, and mouth" of Allah.
>>55850737
You are delusional. This is one of the hottest war zones in human history. Nobody has lived here for long. Maybe for a few centuries during the ottoman empire.
>>55850666
>"rockets flying back"
>implying israel is the aggressor
top kek mane
Anyone have that comic picture of the statue of liberty going to Paris with a rifle in her hand?
>>55851066
Literally worshiping a statue. So much for monotheism.
Muslims are terries cause you do shit like pic related then cry foul at any sign of anger
And no this isn't a result of terrorism THIS RESULTS IN "TERRORISM". Iraq had never attacked american soil, yet 600,000 of its civilians were bombed and murdered for no reason.
>>55851196
Deaths after US invasion != deaths caused by US
Most of those deaths are still from fellow peaceful muslims
>>55850937
>modern day palestinians
The Palestinians were Arabized, if you look up their genetics, they can trace their ancestry to the pre-historical inhabitants of Palestine. They used to be Chrustian and Jewish before converting to Islam. Lying kike.
>>55850937
There was never a kingdom of Israel and no, Ashkenazi jews literally have NO linking to Palestine at all, they are inbred European jews.
The Pagan origins of Palestine, then the jews, muslims, and christians living there, then the crusades, then there was peace, then Jews used the holocaust to justify killing people and kicking them out of their homes during the Nakba.
You know, you could have lived there like the Jews in Iran and not start shit but nah, Jews like being the victim and whine and had to steal peoples land and play the victim card.
Please, try that shit somewhere like a Poli Sci class, not here. I can see through your silly lies.
Jews have no right to destroy Palestine and set up a supremacist regime in the area and cry someone reacts to their neo colonialism.
>>55850937
Explain these freaks.
I actually fall into sympathizing with Jews because I hate Kebab, but then I see this sort of shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QU7IoDoVX4&t=0m30s
https://twitter.com/barbaralspectre
I am guessing your a sensible human being, and really don't go around plotting the destruction of the white race.
However this bitch does, and a lot of other jews do as well. You need to get these people on a leash before it comes back on Israeli.
>>55851125
They had the luxury to build illegal settlements in the West Bank, they ARE the aggressors.
>>55851196
So you attack France because fuck it, murrica bombed us, better baguette their ass just because?
>>55850983
My point wasnt that Christianity wasnt responsible for anything at all, its that it pales in comparison and by a BIG FUCKING MARGIN to islam and its fucked up ideology to dominate all territories it touches.
>>55851183
The Jews worshiping the Western Wall.
>>55851293
>Deaths after US invasion != deaths caused by US
>Most of those deaths are still from fellow peaceful Muslims
No. These are lies that idiots like you like to believe without researching, even ISIS didn't kill a fration of the people US killed, they just have far more publicity.
Over 2,000,000 Muslim Civillians have been killed since the crusade on Muslims began [X], this a world war 2 figure, yet uninformed pigs like you like to casually ignore it for their own misbeliefs and fantasy versions of the real world.
>>55851617
X: http://www.psr.org/assets/pdfs/body-count.pdf
>>55845116
Saddam was cool. He got it. None of this shit would have happened if he was still alive.
This was all a PNAC plan to help Israel and get oil at the same time. It's not quite working out as we planned and now Russia and France are working their own angles too.
>>55851669
Would it, though? Wasn't most of ISIS' initial forces and leadership from Iraq's army? Would they have just played nice instead? What about when Arab Spring rolled around?
>>55845116
Delusion. Shit for brains. Living in a desert with coarse sand up your asscrack all the time. Living in mudhuts. Not being allowed to drink alcohol. Not being allowed to fuck pre-marriage (unless it's some 6 year old). Women with freaking dish towels on their heads everywhere. Big balls, big problems. Having to read squiggly lines instead of letters like a normal person. Yelling and being yelled at all the time at 120 dB in some fantasy language no one understands. Overacting all the time to absolutely everything like a cheap soap opera actor. Wiping with your hand instead of toilet paper. Being brown. Eating food i wouldn't give to a dog. Hell, i would be pissed too.
>>55850610
>What is Vatican?
A government of a sovereign country created to spread Christianity, not a code written for all followers to demand its rule in every country it spreads to.
>So does Islam
didn't say it didn't.
>Depends on sect you belong to, same as in Islam
How you are bound is much different, even in the craziest forms of Christianity the demands are much more civil than moderate Islam.
>some Christian sects do
Names plz
>What are missionaries?
A request is not a demand, missionaries do not blow up non-believers
>What is the first commandment?
Your belief system demanding that you comply with it and your belief demanding that you make non-believers comply with it are completely different things.
>>55851512
is this b8? if not, go read up.
the "palestinians" could have had approx half of what is now israel, but refused cause "allahusandnigharamharam" and went to war. in war the winner usually claims some territory, and rightfully so.
even so, the jews have tried countless times to negotiate peace, by giving back land, but the retarded sandnigs keep going to war led by hamas who use the civilians as human shield.
>inb4 hurrdurr jewshill
>>55851617
The communists killed more than IS.Including killed by means of terror. But many people like communism.
>>55848442
Well reasoned
>>55845116
It is a combination of islam ideology along with arabic culture that breeds such violence. Arabic culture is rash, dominating and always seeking more power.
Take for example indeonesia. They have the largest amount of muslimes in any country on the world. And the amount of terrorists from there is... 0. Why? Because indonesian culture isn't as aggresive than arabic.
So yes, call shit on arabs, not on muslimes.
>>55852064
what's your point?
>>55847098
>people die to terrorist attacks
>the first thing to overcome you is a sense of dread concerning you and your religion
>then you got to pray
>not for the innocent people that were killed
>no you pray that the fucking terrorists were not muslim
And that is why people dislike you, you self centered assholes.
>>55852062
Kike
>>55852112
>It is a combination of islam ideology along with arabic culture that breeds such violence. Arabic culture is rash, dominating and always seeking more power.
STOP SAYING THAT
ARE YOU LITERALLY FUCKING INSANE
LOOK AT FUCKING HISTORY YOU BLIND IDIOTS
>US invades iraq for WMDs that don't exist
>kill hundreds of thousands of civliians
>install sectarian Shiite government that literally has sunni death squads [1]
>ISIS is born
FUCKING RETARDS CAN'T CONNECT TWO DOTS TOGETHER WITH A FUCKING STRAIGHT LINE
THE WEST HAS KILLED x1000 MORE THAN MUSLIMS YET MUSLIMS ARE BRANDED AS FUCKING TERRORISTS. [2]
you're all fucking stupid tribal halfwits
1- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/oct/10/iraq.peterbeaumont
2- http://www.psr.org/assets/pdfs/body-count.pdf
>>55852434
Calm down Ahmed, you're about to explode!
>>55845116
>Genuine question, what is is about islam that makes so many of it's followers terrorists?
1) You fucking assholes and shit like Sykes-Picot.
2) Oil which gives them wealth
3) Colonial governmental systems where large urban centers, once used to subjugate them, are in control of the countries and do a piss-poor job of keeping people happy. Its like Africa except there are fellow Muslim countries with oil who are willing to empower the poor people to tell their governments to fuck off.
This is all your fault and France's fault.
>>55847098
Have you considered that maybe your religion is false anyway? I mean, you're not born believing, you make that choice every day. Have you considered an alternative?
>>55846104
You're just comparing political conflicts when counting deaths. That's a problem because ideological conflicts in the rest of the world have settled down. You wouldn't be seeing the same numbers if this was 1950s or earlier.
What you're not counting is the silent suffering:
- suicides
- crime
- degeneracy
- etc
>>55851183
It can't be anything like the Jewish temple at Jerusalem. Fuckers would go into a secret chamber where only the most elite priests were allowed to enter to worship a box filled with the light of God. Like what the fuck is that shit? And they want to rebuild it!
Ahahahahahahahaha!
At least with the Kabba anyone who is a Muslim can visit it. Jews are like nope you have to be super duper special to look at the box.
>>55852434
>The west kills more people because they actually consider the ones they killed "people"
>The west kills more because Islam doesn't care to keep records of all they've done
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
>Arabs also enslaved Europeans. According to Robert Davis, between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured between the 16th and 19th centuries by Barbary corsairs, who were vassals of the Ottoman Empire, and sold as slaves.[20][21][22] These slaves were captured mainly from seaside villages from Italy, Spain, Portugal and also from more distant places like France or England, the Netherlands, Ireland and even Iceland. They were also taken from ships stopped by the pirates.[23] The effects of these attacks were devastating: France, England, and Spain each lost thousands of ships. Long stretches of the Spanish and Italian coasts were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants, because of frequent pirate attacks. Pirate raids discouraged settlement along the coast until the 19th century.[24][25]
>>55852632
>there are fellow Muslim countries with oil who are willing to empower the poor people to tell their governments to fuck off.
Kek, no. The oil gulf states only empower others if it benefits themselves, like being able to build an oil pipe through Syria to replace Russian oil supply to Europe. It is the oil countries that fund the extremist groups.
>>55852152
>what's your point?
The Muslims have enough zealots. But not all the attacks they organize because of the religion. Often the reason is politics. I do not like Islam as a religion. But some Muslims are normal. There are calm Islamic countries like Turkey, UAE, Kuwait. The roots of terrorism are wars and poverty in the first place. Often under the guise of Islam hides imperial policy in countries where Islam is a traditional religion. But it is also a policy in the first place.
>>55847098
>I am not sorry that a bunch of extremist minorities hijacked my religion and used it as a guise for their written agenda.
Yeah, easy for you to say; you live in Canada and don't share the same struggles as the rest of the Muslim world. You get to sit there in luxury while bitching about a bunch of poor and subjugated people in countries literally pulled out of the asses of France and Britain after WW1 and dominated by them either directly or indirectly.
There's a reason why this shit is happening and its not because some people are assholes. Its because people in one part of the world are pissed off for being used, as a group, as the door-mat of Europe. If you can't fix the Middle East or at least be willing to accept its attempts to fix itself, then shut the fuck up.
>>55847821
God dammit I hate it when some fucking Ivan says something intelligent.
>>55853049
>The Muslims have enough zealots. But not all the attacks they organize because of the religion.
ofcourse it's not, it's the attacks by the west that are religiously inspired. The US went on a fucking CRUSADE in Muslims lands, they combined politics and religion, and the occupied people will do exactly the same
>>55850661
Then quit trying to influence their society and just treat them the same way we treated the fucking soviets. You faggots demand that their culture revolve around yours and that their people work for you and then you bitch and whine when they don't see things your way. You wouldn't let Soviet tanks hang out in London, then why are you letting Middle Eastern people do so? You wouldn't have NGOs hanging out in Moscow 1955, then why are you having NGOs hanging out in the Muslim world trying to fuck with it?
You need a fucking wall.
>>55852004
>A government of a sovereign country created to spread Christianity, not a code written for all followers to demand its rule in every country it spreads to.
Since they lost power, back in the days they had little problem with invading other countries under the pretense of religion.
>you are bound is much different, even in the craziest forms of Christianity the demands are much more civil than moderate Islam.
Even amish people?
>Names plz
catholics for example follow the rules from Rome. Orthodox people are bound to their patriarchies.
>A request is not a demand, missionaries do not blow up non-believers
Crusades in levant, crusades in eastern europe, thirty years war etc.
>Your belief system demanding that you comply with it and your belief demanding that you make non-believers comply with it are completely different things.
Whats the point of that commandment then? If you do comply with it you are OK, if you don't you don't care.
>>55849282
>Because it is the only way for Islamic warlords upset with the balance of power implemented on the Middle East after WWI
This, it's just disgruntled old shitskins tricking kids as young as thirteen into dying for them, just like how disgruntled old zionists and neocons like sending white kids to run around the world and kill for them.
>>55850285
>The difference is there is no organised slaughter or butchering of civilians in this modern day in the name of Jesus or God according to the Christian/Catholic faith.
That was atheism in the 20th century. Tens of millions killed because they weren't willing to worship the state.
>>55850744
>GTFO of North America.
He/she belongs in France or the UK.
>>55851196
>for no reason.
Just because you're an idiot doesn't make the world simpler.
>>55851669
>Saddam was cool. He got it. None of this shit would have happened if he was still alive.
Yeah, except he wouldn't be alive by now even if we didn't get him executed. Fun fact: the world of 12 years ago isn't the same one as the world of today.
>>55853622
>Just because you're an idiot doesn't make the world simpler.
4u
>>55852599
kek
>>55845728
Stfu faggot kik you know its true
>>55845116
the core of the religion
honestly what can you expect from a group of people, when their ultimate life goal is to fuck little girls.
yeah Sadam had them in check, but they were fucking things up way before then.
they went through Afghanistan killing all the non believers and destroying Buddhist relics and statues.
the catholics did similar things but grew out of that shit a long time ago.
these people live in a vicious cycle of war and being raised with war.
it doesnt help that they believe i they flew from killing a nonbeliever they will go to hell.
you will go to hell if you dont kill?
are you kidding me?
FUBAR
ITT: faggots who are trying to find an imperial solution to a problem by past imperial ambitions.
Come on you twats. You already shoved your bullshit down the throats of the Middle Easterners and now they're throwing it back. Just fucking knock this "What do we impose on people X to solve problem Y" shit off. It was that crap that started all these problems and it was that crap that WW2 was meant to end. Just let the problem solve itself even if it costs the lives of every Frenchy, Brit, or Russian.
>>55851932
>Wasn't most of ISIS' initial forces and leadership from Iraq's army?
Yes, but they listened to Saddam and Saddam didn't seem interested in much else than controlling the population and staying in power.
>>55849204
yeah... and thats why the jews run everything.
>>55850186
jesus christ that website.....
>>55853308
But Saddam was hostile. Saddam arranged genocide of Kurds. Develop weapons of mass destruction. There is information that he was behind the organization of terrorist attacks in the US before 9 11. I do not see anything wrong in the war against Saddam. Too bad that the US army came to home early from Iraq. In the vanquished Iraq needed to create good conditions for life, so people in Iraq not want to fight and take revenge. That they did not want to emigrate or to be fanatics.
>>55847120
you are really ignorant.
you think they werent killing and destroying before the 9/11 or something?
>not all Muslims
It doesn't have to be.
Germany bred the Nazis. The Nazis accounted for a small fraction of the German people, but that didn't matter. They killed millions anyway. Same goes for Stalin, Mao, Sadam. Now Muslims are the bad guys. And they're going to kill all of you and rape your wives and children and put hookah bars next to all your liquor stores.
>>55845434
>>55848548
>Some which is taken in context, but most is not
sorry new friend, but the quran is very specific about everything. from how your estate is to be handled after death to the only way you can get charged with rape, etc. it is a literal text with no interpretation. ive read it. mostly boring as fuck but i took a week to read it after work.
>>55845116
I've got an idea. let's just exterminate. them all. they kill, smell bad and are bad company. kill them all so we can find another culture religion or people to pick on.
>>55845116
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
There is no room for debate. The answer is secularism promoted by the west. Long story short, our religions get cheaper but we get comfort in return. Their religions get cheaper but they get nothing in return.
>>55854723
m8 we were disscusing tactics, not whatever they were "killing and destroying". Almost every nation was killing and destroying, and those who didn´t were killed and destroyed.
So unless you have something meaningful to say go adhomo someone else..
>>55845116
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.
Deuteronomy 13:7-12
Muslims got two things righg.:
Dropping off the pig meat off their eating habits and the alcohol.
That's actually very recommendable. Other than that no. Remove yourself.
Saw these in another thread not long ago, in a hurry, can't crop for shit but its based
>>55847098
>I am not sorry for being muslim.
Does it help that I'm sorry you aren't sorry?
NIGGER
>>55855149
part b
>>55845116
But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
>>55850749
criticizing someone who criticized wikipedia
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I love it when the word "terrorist" is thrown around. Just about every country with an army can be called terrorists at some point in time. Do you ever induce terror with your actions? If yes, congratulations you are a terrorist.
>>55846460
actually it is violent religion from the beginning, you brits had no contact with it because it was stopped once half way through spain and then again around 16th century by based poles and austria fags
>>55845116
>Genuine question, what is is about islam that makes so many of it's followers terrorists?
>islam
I'm starting to believe it's actually less about islam specifically and particularly and more about islam being part of an identity for a group of people suffering from the clear contrast between themselves and their betters.
They're allegedly following God's doctrine, handed off to them from his greatest and foremost prophet, and yet, materially at least, their nations and cultures are dogshit in comparison to the filthy heathen kuffars.
There's a reason so many ISIS joiners are streaming in from European countries. There's a reason so many terrorist attacks use "local" muslims. They take part in a culture and identity that argues for their superirority and then they have to get up, stow their prayer mat, and go do their menial, dogshit labor in service to people that their prophet claimed should be under their heel by now. I'd be mad too.
Islam is a toilet doctrine, but really any doctrine that makes the kind of obnoxious claims it does and gets tied to the identity of adherants would cause these problems when those claims are frustrated.
>>55849858
lat time someone killed in the namo of christion god was several centuries ago during the crusades.
muslims are still killing today.
we moved forward. they are still in dark ages
>>55848053
This
>>55845116
>what is is about islam that makes so many of it's followers terrorists?
tiny penises
>>55850937
Are you seriously implying that modern palestinians are somehow ALL invaders from Arabia? You sound exactly like negrocentrists with their bullshit that all Egyptians were black and modern Egyptians are just da ebul whuite invaders.
>>55845728
>Give a legitimate source for your numbers
Well that didn't take long.
>>55855128
>Dropping off the pig meat off their eating habits
Fuck off
> and the alcohol.
Fuck right off
Those are literally the worst things about their religion.
>>55847098
Here's the thing: Islam requires that you kill me. Further, Islam requires that you kill me in some of the most hideous ways known to man, through torture and mutilation. Islam requires that you kill every one of my family members, that you do everything in your power to eliminate my entire family from existence.
You believe that you will become holy and go to Heaven by ensuring the death, the horrible tortured death, of me, my family and most of my friends.
Fuck you.
I will kill you first.
Oh. You want to claim that you don;t believe these things? that your "religion" doesn't require you to do these things?
Then you are not a muslim. You are an infidel and your own blood & family and the Islamic community are required to torture you to death to cleanse their own path to heaven.
You have a choice in what to believe, and you choose to be a member of a murder cult. That makes you sub-human, not even worthy of the respect I would show to a pile of rotting pigshit.
>>55847530
Topcück, you Turk. You do realize that was copypasta?
Stop falling for their taqiyya, you retarded Krautcunts.
>>55856133
>we moved forward. they are still in dark ages
Wrong. "We" had 3 things happen:
1) 30-years-war establishing Westphalian sovereignty
2) Massive amounts of border changes and conflicts that stabilized things over time
3) Political ideals being given the chance to grow in a sterile environment(America) that came back to Europe and imposed peace and those said ideals.
Those things never happened in the Middle East because they never had a chance to. Its still a tribal society and the fake borders placed on the land, along with the inability for those borders to ebb and flow, have turned them into glorified city-states like Russia.
What's going on now is their 30 Years War. The Islamic State is literally the first actual Westphalian State to be created naturally in the area. Quit bitching and whining since you European faggots are to blame for everything and these new states that'll form in the Desert will be looking for something to justify their existence. Killing you savages will probably be pretty popular on their list of things to do.
Its like you foreign faggots are laughing at Bismark and saying that the German successor states will revert back to the Holy Roman Empire while Bismark is creating the German Empire.
>>55845116
Muslims and the entire Arabian culture NEED a dictator. The word Islam itself means "submission to Allah", their entire civilization is built upon the principles of submission and control, and always aggressively expanding their dogma.
Christianity is the opposite, the religion is built on the principles of free will and liberty, allowing individuals to commit sin out of their own choice. That's why the western world works on the foundations of Democracy and Libertarianism.
The solution is strong and merciless Christian/ westernized leaders who may eventually eliminate that Arabian culture once and for all.
>>55856133
>we moved forward
Yeah, no. America forced you faggots to quit killing each other. You didn't become "enlightened" or embrace peace; we just make warfare too costly for you fags.
You sound like the kind of retard who sees a stock's price increasing 10-fold and says its a new paradime while dumping all your cash into it. You fags said this in 1913, 1938, and now you're saying it again. Kill yourself.
>>55857258
Who cares. NUKE MECCA. Kill all muslims. Eliminate the problem once and for all.
>>55847098
Nice statement friend, stay strong.
The shit I have heard
>Why don't you guys denounce ISIS
Literally every Muslim country, and scholar has denounced it, see Letter to Baghdadi
>Well just saying that isn't enough, why don't you guys go and fight them
Do you actually know who ISIS is fighting? Muslims, basically only Muslims, and not just Shias, but Sunnis as well. ISIS's main enemy is the FSA, then the SAA, then Al Qaeda, then the Kurds. Not just that, but the Arab coalition of countries in the fight against ISIS, alongside the West, includes Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, UAE, all Sunni countries, most of them Wahabbi. Then you have the Shia countries, Iran, Hezbollah (not a country, but a militant group)
Muslims are the primary targets of ISIS, and one of the only people fighting ISIS on the ground
>>55857431
>Muslims and the entire Arabian culture NEED a dictator.
Yeah, that didn't exactly work out too well before. In fact, the Arab Spring would've been much more fucked up if Desert-Stalin wasn't already killed.
>The solution is strong and merciless Christian/ westernized leaders who may eventually eliminate that Arabian culture once and for all.
1) Most "western" leaders are just atheists or faggots who don't take Christianity seriously.
2) Your idea would only make things worse. In fact the "lets just fucking kill all of group X and everything'll be better" solution was the reason why we Americans imposed the Atlantic Charter and other shit on you sub-humans to keep you from going down that road.
3) The problems are the fault of the pre-WW2-era Europeans. Blame them.
>>55845116
they're just following their prophets example
The earliest biography (sirat) of Muhammad's life is the work of Ibn Ishaq (85-151 A.H.) who was born in Medina. In this we learn of Muhammad's actions after he had conquered the towns of Khaybar. This event is also accepted and recorded by Ibn Kathir [1].
THE REST OF THE AFFAIR OF KHAYBAR
Kinana b. al-Rabi`, who had the custody of the treasure of B. al-Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (T. was brought) to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al-`Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has," so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, translated as, The Life of Muhammad, (tr. A. Guillaume), Karachi: Oxford University Press, 1998, p. 515.)
This action of Muhammad teaches us a very important point about his character. He was the type of man who used torture to achieve his goals. In this case he wanted the treasure of the tribe of al-Nadir. The custodian of the treasure would not give it to him, therefore Muhammad gave the order to have him tortured. Muhammad's companions knew how to torture someone and proceeded to do so. This is the type of man Muhammad was. He could be merciful and forgiving if he wanted to be, but he could also have someone tortured for money to expand his empire. In this regard Muhammad is like ordinary kings and dictators throughout human history.
>>55857729
not to mention, that ISIS literally butcher any Muslims that don't bow down to them. Literally none of you guys would know about Yarmouk Refugee camp, where ISIS went in and slaughtered many Palestinian refugees, just because the Palestinians didn't align with them. I am not talking about only militants, but almost all of them refugees
>>55855189
>Don't blame us for removing a perfectly capable leader, blame them because we didn't know how widespread corruption is in their society
Dindu nuffin the post, I agree with the first one you posted though.
>>55857546
>Who cares. NUKE MECCA. Kill all muslims. Eliminate the problem once and for all.
Then what? You just turned the Middle East into an unpopulated blank slate like America circa 1700 except this time in the most valuable part of the world(crossroads of civilizations). If it becomes a nation, it'll take over the world. If you carve it up into buffer states and populate it with random people, those buffer states will just merge and take over the world.
Face it: the best thing we can do is just sit this out. Iranistan and the GCC monarchies aren't going to be ignored much longer. Daesh will be in a war against them and the Middle East 2100 will look totally different but will be much more advanced and cohesive. Outside "solutions" meant to hamstring the locals got us into this problem in the first place. Also, genocide works wonders but not against a huge percentage of the world who are, by the way, more unified than everyone else.
>>55857831
>Most "western" leaders are just atheists or faggots who don't take Christianity seriously.
I concur with this statement
>lets just fucking kill all of group X and everything'll be better" solution
Do you really presume I'm calling for a genocidal Christian dictator? You'd be quite surprised how easy it is to change a culture, just look at Cultural Marxism.
>The problems are the fault of the pre-WW2-era Europeans. Blame them.
No it isn't. Islamic culture is defined by it's adamant aggression toward anything that moves which is not aligned with them specifically. Europeans have been defending their continent for centuries, each Crusade was justified after ten times the amount of Jihads the continent had experienced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo
>inb4 biased link
I dont give a fuck
>>55845116
It's not just Islam its self but Islamic culture as.
What built the Christian worlds we know to a large extent was the development of monogamy as a moral/social necessity assuring that most men had access to women and reproduction and if one had excess wealth to build it up. Contrast it to multi spouses were typically the riches men used procure and obtain many mates to satisfy sexual desires and status.
Leaving hoards of unattached men as canon fodder with a very personal motivation to expand into new lands to find mates(thus spreading their faith)
So I think that and to an extent genetics from that chunk of the world might make one a little more prone to violence.
>>55858162
>Dindu nuffin the post, I agree with the first one you posted though.
Yeah, why don't you try taking over a country and re-building it. Its not as easy as it seems, especially when its a fake country conjured up by the filthy French and British.
>>55845116
The military-industrial complex profits from war.
>>55854876
So is it crazy or not? Are the extremist right in what they say and do?
>>55858344
Why was it necessary in the first case is my point. Let them develop on their own, intereventionism is only good if the intervening nation remains in place to ensure their goals.
>>55847856
? he summed up our mentality perfectly.
>This thread
The Muslims are in full damage control
>>55845116
They only understand and respect military power. i.e. They only respect people that they fear, and if you are weak they will conquer you.
That's not to say that this originated with Islam. Islam is pretty much the preexisting Arab culture turned into a religion.
>>55858279
>Do you really presume I'm calling for a genocidal Christian dictator?
Yeah. Even if you weren't, you'd pretty much have to.
>You'd be quite surprised how easy it is to change a culture, just look at Cultural Marxism.
No its not. Cultural Marxism is only as powerful as it is because it thrives in the post-WW2 environment within urban centers. The moment the WW2 agreements become void(very fucking soon since our faggot president isn't protecting borders), cultural marxism will die. It has its power because it is used by urban-centric political parties and organizations as a means of extracting wealth from everyone else in the name of fighting made-up problems. Even "Climate Change" is just an excuse by large cities in America to rob wealth from rural/suburban America and capitals in Europe to rob wealth from Africa and the Middle East while cementing current regimes.
Cultural marxism is dead. When the atomic bombs start falling, you'll know it'll be the first casualty.
>No it isn't. Islamic culture is defined by it's adamant aggression toward anything that moves which is not aligned with them specifically.
So is every culture. Their culture is trying to unify itself while dealing with outside forces. Those countries aren't like Australia or America where you can go wherever the fuck you want. They're tribal and very fragmented - a fact that the British and French used against them.
>Europeans have been defending their continent for centuries
1) They've been fighting each other mainly after the Plague and Reformation when feudalism was dead
2) Before Feudalism was dead, the Crusades were merely a means of getting the knights out of Europe so they'd quit robbing everyone. Gave them something to fight for
3) Europe has only recently seen itself as a unified entity. Very recently.
>>55849694
Fuck off filthy kike, there's plenty of shit in the Torah. It's your race's fault for even convincing Europe to accept Muslim migrants in the first place
>>55846774
This is the most understandable explaination of Islam that I've ever read. Totally makes sense why they are the way they are. It's mostly our faults. Also, can't they just stay in their own countries? Why would they even want to be around infidels if they truly hate us so much? Honest question.
>>55858503
>Why was it necessary in the first case is my point.
1) to protect international law and agreements. Saddam was literally acting like he had weapons and, if we didn't act, then international agreements wouldn't be worth the paper they're writen on.
2) Saddam would've fallen anyway. Much of Daesh's power comes from shit in Syria and we didn't attack Syria. Imagine how much worse this would've been if both shitholes had civil wars at the same time.
3) The point of disbanding the military was to break the old loyalties and issues of the military. We didn't want them prolonging problems. The mistake was to believe that we could build a better one while still letting Iraq be sovereign. Its their fucking fault for believing that we were taking them over permanently.
>>55858606
I think its France that is in full Damage control
>>55847098
Uhm, if your friends take off these retarded hijabs then our work here pays off. They may not know it yet (you yourself are SOOO confused about it) but they finally have opportunity to realize that they will not be raped, they are as modest with it than without it and last thing god wants from her is to wear a fucking piece of cloth
Why are there two kind of american flags? One is a little brighter than the other.
>>55846774
>Islam at its roots was based on conquest.
and it unified the locals
>After some back and forth wars it sort of just lied dormant for a few centuries
It got taken over by various large empires from Central Asia
>Then oil was discovered in the middle east and regional and western powers started fucking around there.
Half true. Oil was discovered in the areas of Iraq and Iran. After the brits and french tried to take all the oil and leave behind the worthless Arab Peninsula, America discovered oil in Saudi Arabia.
>Terror attacks against the west and their regional allies ensued, and in response the west and it's allies stepped up their carving and trampling game, which led to more extreme fundamentalism, and the cycle continues until the west either pulls out of the middle east or commits to total war.
Which is why we should do nothing. Even if we win, we just re-imposed the same unstable conditions. Euros aren't going to die for anything and you know it.
What needs to be done, and this is important, is that a new order needs to be created to replace the post-WW2 order which didn't take into account that some borders are faker than others. We need to let these things happen in the Middle East and then accept the states that are produced as legitimate. Same thing in Africa. If we fail to do so, then we'll have WW3.
>>55859594
>Why are there two kind of american flags? One is a little brighter than the other.
Puerto Rico hasn't been officially annexed yet.
>>55851130
Here ya go, MuriBro
>>55858980
>cultural marxism will die
Que? You and I seem to have differing interpretations of Cultural Marxism, though funnily enough we both vilify it. The movement is simply a product of post revisionism and anti European sentiment that originated during the Counter Culture of the 60s/70s. It's that very anti western thinking which spawns brainwashed hippie fools.
>So is every culture. Their culture is trying to unify itself while dealing with outside forces. Those countries aren't like Australia or America where you can go wherever the fuck you want. They're tribal and very fragmented
They are at the moment, yes, but they haven't always been. The Ottoman Empire has always been a vast unifying force for Muslims which constantly waged Jihad through out the last 1000 years. And that's not all, must I remind you of the Umayyad Caliphate conquest of Spain? I can name many aggressive Islamic expansionism, can you say the same for the west except for the last decade?
>a fact that the British and French used against them.
Can you explain what you mean by this? You keep repeating it, in what way do the British and French exploit this?
>They've been fighting each other mainly after the Plague and Reformation when feudalism was dead
This is true, I mean, Europe is a bloody big continent. When I say "Europeans", I don't mean the actual literal sense of a unified continent fighting against Islam, but it has been a common occurrence for differing Euro Christendom cultures in some way or another.
>the Crusades were merely a means of getting the knights out of Europe so they'd quit robbing everyone.
I disagree, the Crusades were a defensive measure to liberate Christians in the Holy Land and defend themselves from aggressive Turkish expansionism.
>>55845116
>what is is about islam that makes so many of it's followers terrorists?
Their holy book tells them to use violence to convert people ie. jihad
it's not some kind of mystery
>>55859000
The "cronicals of the elders of Zion" was created by the Russians. Face it, you're just parroting old Russian propaganda.
Its shit like this which is why we haven't annexed you fuckers yet.
>>55846460
hm? the crusades? did they teach you nothing in school you fucking pleb, get out of my fucking country
>>55860128
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo
Enjoy
>>55847098
Nice fucking pasta, I can't believe you retards fell for this.
>>55847098
Your either a troll or not smart for posting on /pol/. No one cares how well thought out your response is, it contradicts their opinions
>>55852062
>hurr durr jews #1
How's that jewish dick anon?
Because they're third world savages and actually need that hope that believing strongly in a religion givese you.
>>55859875
>The movement is simply a product of post revisionism and anti European sentiment that originated during the Counter Culture of the 60s/70s. It's that very anti western thinking which spawns brainwashed hippie fools.
And its used by politicians who give token support to it. Its just a product of degeneracy like the counter-culture movement. It exists because societies have nothing to fight for. The reason why it pushes for shit like carbon-credits and foreign NGOs is because, as its role as a puppet, its nothing more than a tool to help Europe control the "former" colonies. Truly independent movements don't last long. Feminism was overtaken by urban politicians who use it for population control(get rid of the local births and their bell-curve children and instead import the "upper-half of the bell-curve" from outside of the city), environmentalism is literally just an excuse for neocolonialism, and the peace movements are just excuses to protect the status quo reguardless of the suffering it imparts on brown people. Cultural marxism just "justifies" these pro-urban alternatives to old-fashion warfare and conquest. It won't last though since, as a tool of politicians, it's weakened for good reason.
continued.
>>55845116
This. We created a power vacuum believing there would be democracy there and would spread all over the middle east. Hahaha. Instead we got radical Islam that spread. Thank you Bush, Cheney, wolfowitz, and rumsfeld. They removed the pit bull without replacing him.
>>55847536
>White people and our traditional religion
You do know that more and more westerners are Atheist right? You are really close to having no religion and the people that DO believe in religion are made fun of and hide it.
>Our population is being replaced by foreigners
You make white people look pathetic. Who do you think are the ones ALLOWING foreigners into your countries? THE WHITE PEOPLE YOU HAVE ELECTED. But who do you blame?
>threatens our traditional way of life
Because it's the foreigners that keked Canada. it's the foreigners that are powering the SJWs and libs. it's the foreigners that promote single parent households. it's the foreigners that promote trans-retardation.
>>55857107
If he is a Muslim that does not believe those things then whats the problem? Your response to him only makes him more angry and will ultimately make him more of an extremist. Try actualy talking and not just barking at them because you are not going to kill 1.7 billion people.
>>55852319
>>55848954
This happens a lot with black people also. When a black person does something bad one of the first things that will come to their mind is that it makes black people look bad. This is because racist and ignorant people think that the bad ones represent people as a whole. Its a defense mechanism.
The main point is that you are not having a conversation you are just yelling at eachother and you will gain nothing from it.
>>55847098
g8 b8 m8
>>55860503
So an anti western/European movement which seeks to establish western/European dominion over the entire world. Man, how far does this rabbit hole go?
While I see the connection I guess, it seriously seems like your grasping at straws just to vilify the west as much as possible. Since Marxism breeds shit like open borders, redistribution of wealth and destruction of Capitalism, doesn't world leaders continuously utilizing it sorta defeat the purpose? After all, the Marxist retard youth of today are just going to grow up and assume positions of powers, eliminating the vast global dominion the west seeks.
Besides, since the EU (which is rampant with Cultural Marxism) wants to allow hordes of immigrants in and destroy the Euro culture, doesn't that kinda contradict their master plan?
If I was a leader who wanted to push for western "imperialism", wouldn't I eliminate all forms of historical revisionism in schools and instill greater indoctrination of patriotism in the minds of the youth?
Sorry, I must be missing something, and I'm tired as fuck. Do you have any outside reading I could look at?
>>55859875
>They are at the moment, yes, but they haven't always been.
That's how they originally were. Muhammad's power came from his ability to unify people who wouldn't work together. As for the various old empires/caliphates, they tried to unify tribes and groups as a whole but never could unify individuals. The Ottomans never created a Muslim nation and thus never really could become too powerful. The danger of ISIS is that they are creating a new Muslim nationality because they are being filled with the urban, non-tribal, members of the Muslim world who are crushing any tribal resistance. This is how Europe was before the 30 Years War.
>Umayyad Caliphate conquest of Spain?
They got lucky. The Visigoths(or whoever) had a very weak state and collapsed like a house of cards. When there was resistance in France, the expansion ended.
>I can name many aggressive Islamic expansionism, can you say the same for the west except for the last decade?
1)I think you meant century.
2) The Western expansion was during the Roman times. When the Catholic Church took hold of Europe, they created much unity instead of focusing on conquest. The Crusades were just a means of stopping knightly violence. When the Reformation and later the 30 Years War happened, the violence was far higher than anything Muslims did. The 30 Years War killed around 8,000,000 people.
3) European conflicts tended to stay in Europe. The reason being that Europe isn't a desert and much of Europe's expansion during Roman and Early Middle Ages times was against trees, not outside powers. Europe could expand internally against the trees while the Middle East has to put their energy into attacking external powers for wealth. Its like if you compare a neighborhood to a farm; you can do whatever you want on a farm but you can't do jack shit in an urban neighborhood without getting into a conflict with someone else.
>>55845116
>what is is about islam that makes so many of it's followers terrorists?
The entire foundation of the Quran is that you kill anything that doesn't follow the Quran
There's your answer
>>55847856
kill yourself mohammed
>>55848138
Willing to bet my left nut that it'll be communism.... Again. China and Russia will be America's next "big bads"
>be raided, enslaved, raped, murdered and conquered for 500 years
>your homelands suffer from destitute poverty because of the constant sea raids destroying naval trade and transport routes
>Byzantium is begging for help, southern france is easy picking for slavers, Spain is conquered and France is invaded, churches are burned and nuns are raped en masse in conquered cities, southern Italy and Sicily live in fear
>call upon nobles, peasants, the poor and the rich alike to put an end to centuries of oppression and evil and retake the holy lands that are dear to you
>sell your lands, your estate, your everything to buy armor, a sword and enough food and water to make it halfway across the known world, knowing you won't return but believe in the cause of justice
>lose hundreds of thousands of good men for over a hundred years in perpetual war
>a thousand years later your ancestors piss on your grave and bend over for the very people you traveled through hell itself to stop
>tfw it's just to keep up appearance
>>55859334
ISIS was formed by iraqi military intelligence in 2003....their power comes from iraqi military weapons...
>>55861769
>to unify people who wouldn't work together.
Via totalitarianism, of course.
>The Ottomans never created a Muslim nation and thus never really could become too powerful.
The Ottoman Empire for centuries, how wasn't that a unified nation?
>When there was resistance in France, the expansion ended.
So intense aggression occurred in the west and halted when they realized that the French were far to superior to them when they tried defending themselves? This proves my point.
>I think you meant century.
Give me an example. the Soviet Union doesn't count.
>The Western expansion was during the Roman times
Which was surely a good thing for the world. Prior to than expansion, the Middle East was nothing. But this is two thousand years ago, before Christianity and Islam even existed.
>The 30 Years War killed around 8,000,000 people.
I'm not denying this at all. My argument simply was that Europe had been defending itself from Islamic expansionism for over a thousand years. Infighting in both factions was very common, that's the problem with religious zealotry.
>the Middle East has to put their energy into attacking external powers for wealth
The Ottoman Empire was massively wealthy due to trade alone, how else do you think they were able to keep such a vast monopoly over the region and the Christian minorities. This proves my point, for the longest amount of time Europeans were isolated and never involved themselves with Arabia, rather they had to defend themselves.
>>55847530
lel
Here is my analogy. Represent humanity as a human body, islam as one leg, and Jihad as a cancer within that leg. Should we either cut off the leg, leaving behind many innocent muslims in the process, but also killing the cancer, or should we let the cancer spread and kill the whole of humanity out of the kindness of our hearts?
>>55848138
Learn your history you stupid kraut. jihadism became a huge problem only after the afghan invasion
>>55859875
3
>Can you explain what you mean by this?
When WW1 was going on, the British, through a fag known as Lawrence of Arabia, turned the Arabs into a 5th column against the Ottomans. They offered to help the Arabs under the agreement that the Arabs would get their land back from the Ottomans(GCC countries + everything between them and Turkey). The Brits, being Brits during a war they thought would be the final war of human history, decided to take much of the land. The French, seeing the British involvement in the Middle East, demanded their share of things and the 2 empires created the borders of the fake Middle Eastern countries on a map(Lebanon + Syria for France, Iraq, Palistine, and Transjordan for Britain) and used the League of Nations to "legitimize" their land grab. This was done for oil(Iraq), to keep the Arabs from becoming too powerful, and as a means of deriving wealth from the area. Since only colonial cities benefit from such outside control, the countries never improved except when it came to enriching the capitals. The British, French, and their puppet governments did NOT benefit in any way from removing internal division, tribalism, or anything else that would challenge the centers of power. This is common in "former" colonies in Africa where the capital cities like to keep the whole countries shitty as a means of protecting their power.
ISIS/Daesh/Goat-Fuckers/ISIL/IS/Whatever is pretty much the products of those capitals trying to create a new state that isn't internally divided. The reason why they're fucking with France and Russia (and probably the UK soon) is because both are seen has historical enemies of radical Muslims(Soviets in Afghanistan, French in Syria and Lebanon) with whom new conflicts can yield more allies and stronger nationalism. They're essentially fucking with the French so the French will bomb them harder and re-ignite old grievances.
This is now about politics, not religion.
>>55863104
>Kebab calling anyone stupid.
Kek
>>55845116
this religion was made by a guy who had 200 wives and personally beheaded 50 people.
anyone stupid enough to believe in someone like that is stupid enough to blow themselves up
>>55863327
But the Middle East is naturally torn and is full of much internal conflict, of course without the British or French. The Arab Revolt was a secular justified movement which got out of hand when the lack of Turkish power over the region caused a vacuum to be created. Who knew the Nationalists would become so intense? Just as I said before, the region requires a greater power to control them.
Besides, a vast majority of the countries which the west "land grabbed" sure didn't stay under their control for long. The ethnic/religious Nationalism was too great, as you said yourself repeatedly before, the Middle East (just like Europe) was extremely tribalistic, and nations like Syria and Iraq were completely differing peoples. Case in point, the west didn't cause the divide, the Arabs did it themselves.
When the Middle East is unified, they often start violent jihad in the name of the greater religion. But Islamic radicalism isn't the only radical tendency that occurs in the area, the place is extremely xenophobic toward each other and toward the outside world.
>>55845116
> what about Islam makes so many muslims terrorists?
537 different times the koran tells muslims to destroy non-believers and apostates, that's why. Religion of conquest, 100%
> http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html
>>55862880
>Via totalitarianism, of course.
Rarely works. Totalitarian/authoritarian regimes rely on a hierarchy of people who's alliegence is bought and where the economy is in the hands of people on that hierarchy. Such regimes always fail since they can't feed their people or provide enough jobs at the end of the day. See Tunisia's revolution/civil-war for example.
To unify people, you have to make unity natural. This is what the Nazis did well and what the Soviets failed at. Using force to get people to work together fails when the regime fails. Muhammad created unity with both a religion and with his early conquests that helped to turn his people into a defined group rather than a band of barbarians. This worked well until he died and division started due to his inability to create a clear line of succession. Totalitarianism dies with its regime while Islam lived on.
>The Ottoman Empire for centuries, how wasn't that a unified nation?
Because it unified tribes, not individuals. It was like the Holy Roman Empire in that it was a collection of smaller units rather than a nation of people. By working with tribes instead of people, it was never able to maximize the potential of its citizens or its land without running into conflicts. Its like dealing with unions; you can't even get someone to change a fucking lightbulb unless its their job.
>Give me an example. the Soviet Union doesn't count.
Mainly colonial issues(colonies taken from Germany after WW1, Italians in Ethiopia, etc). Its a stupid question for 3 reasons:
1) European order was being held tightly after the Napoleonic wars and the unification of Germany via balance of power agreements.
2) Expansion during the last century took more of the form of suppression of colonial subjects and expansion into colonies. Just look at the Congo(now DRC) were rubber came from.
3) Much of what the League of Nations did. After WW1, the focus of Europe was to steal other peoples' shit instead of each others.
>>55847098
>I am not sorry for being muslim.
Well you fucking should be, your ideology is a piece of shit. It isn't helping humanity advance as a species, its a burden, slowing us down.
>>55865538
There is no other religion where a literal interpretation leads so explicitly to mass violence. At least Christianity has a pacifistic side grafted onto its violent counterpart, and emphasizes persuation to convert; islam dictates conquest or extortion for converts, slavery, everything a liberal should hate. Even fascists had restraints islamists don't bother with.
Problem being, moderates are an extreme minority, and not supported by their Scriptures. They basically arguing for other muslims to abandon the koran. How can that ever happen? The religion's founders knew what they were doing.
>>55853719
Saddam would most definitely still be alive. He had an actual army. He could literally steam roll the fucking shit out of ISIS. They would never have the chance to gain power.
>>55865255
>Muhammad created unity with both a religion and with his early conquests that helped to turn his people into a defined group rather than a band of barbarians.
The man marched into Mecca, began oppressing the Jews/Christians/Pagans, gave special privilege only to those whom support him, he committed genocide and enacted Sharia Law which practically is Communism in it's essence.
The man was a totalitarian. The second only to Allah.
>Because it unified tribes, not individuals.
Just like the Holy Roman Empire, there were moments of intense unification. Like the Crusades, or the very common great Jihads against Europe.
>Just look at the Congo
Yeah, the Belgian Congo was a quickly growing economy and could have turned out to be massively rich. Unfortunately, you forget that the Belgian Congo was different to French and British colonies, where the Belgians supported a Native Policy rather than the common Indirect Rule. This is why the Belgian Congo was far more despairingly torn between ethnic groups.
Many colonies were run very differently.
>Italians in Ethiopia
>Fascists in Ethiopia
>the focus of Europe was to steal other peoples' shit instead of each others.
No it wasn't. This revisionist perspective on history is blatantly wrong, take the Belgian Congo, which was formed prior to the League of Nations.
Sure, during the Cold War one could see a kind of "Imperialism" on both sides. But after all, it was almost always the Union which sought to eat up more land. The funny thing is, in a free market economy, one doesn't need to take over a land because one could just trade for those natural resources. but Communism requires the entire nation for this purpose.Just like the British in Arabia during WW1, the US could never have foreseen the consequences of their actions in Afghanistan. Anything to stem the tide of Communist monopolization of the region.
>>55862880
>Which was surely a good thing for the world. Prior to than expansion, the Middle East was nothing. But this is two thousand years ago, before Christianity and Islam even existed.
Only because it spread Christianity. If it had not, its gains would've vanished and its victims would've died for nothing in the grand scheme of things. It was only via Christianity that the groups who danced on Rome's ashes were able to build new cohesive societies in the Early and High Middle Ages. Christianity would've spread anyway without Rome since its message - being able to overcome the traditional Nash Equilibrium strategy of mutual hostility that existed in the pagan world - allowed for stronger social bonds and thus larger nations to be built than conquest and subjugation alone could build.
Also, the Middle East wasn't "Nothing" back then. The Arab Peninsula was nothing but Iraq, Persia, and Anatolia were wealthy and vibrant societies. It wasn't until the Mongols fucked up Iraq that it became a total shithole.
>Europe had been defending itself from Islamic expansionism for over a thousand years.
yeah, but only sporadic expansionism. After the failure to take France, Islam never did much. They killed the Eastern Roman Empire when it was almost dead anyways. As great as the Ottomans were in the 1400s, they were shit by the 1700s.
>Infighting in both factions was very common, that's the problem with religious zealotry.
Same with all ideologies and even Atheism. Just look at the Sino-Soviet split. The Roman Catholic Church was very good at unity until they had a stupid pedophile pope who wasted all their money.
>The Ottoman Empire was massively wealthy due to trade alone, how else do you think they were able to keep such a vast monopoly over the region and the Christian minorities.
They taxed the Christians and benefited from the fact that the Suez Canal didn't exist until the late 1860s. Without the canal, their control over trade was pretty much absolute.
>>55866314
Thanks for not meming, Robespierre. You seem to have a pretty decent and realistic outlook on the reason for today's violence in the Middle East.
>>55849604
In these passages God is either speaking directly to a specific person or we have additional material, i.e. The NT, that clarifies the purpose behind these passages. Furthermore, theres nothing in the bible that demands literalist interpretation. In true Christianity, i.e. Catholicism, the bible itself is not revelation. The reverse is true. The Quran is the undiluted, pure and simple, will of God.
>>55864895
>But the Middle East is naturally torn and is full of much internal conflict, of course without the British or French.
No, they were kept the way they were by every group that controlled them. When they finally got independence, Britain and France fucked them over. They were never able to form anything approaching nationhood since their old tribal system was always protected by the various empires that ruled over them but also protected by the limits of technology and the terrain of the region(desert and rivers). With all 3 of these limiting factors falling away (Daesh has vehicles, independence, and technology), they're pretty good at creating their own country. Remember: people probably said the same thing about the German people in the Holy Roman Empire up until the unification of Germany.
>Who knew the Nationalists would become so intense?
Its more complex than that. The area has overlapping boundaries of sectarian, tribal, ethnic/nationalist, and patriotic groups. With the Sykes-Picot countries effectively dead, that just leaves the first 3 boundaries. Daesh, by using brutal force, is able to overcome sectarian division easily while also being able to quickly deal with tribal boundaries by pretty much threatening them and nullifying their control. The national issue is easy for them to solve because they're clearly trying to create their own form of civic nationalism rather than relying on Arab nationalism which is incompatible with killing Arabs. They're succeeding in creating this civic national identity because they don't have to conform to anything except the will of their leader who is good at crushing internal division(obvious by the success of their control over Mosul). Much of their identity comes from purely political grievances against Europe for Sykes-Picot and the various dictators.
>Just as I said before, the region requires a greater power to control them.
No, Europe requires a greater power to subjugate the Middle East.
>>55864895
cont...
>Besides, a vast majority of the countries which the west "land grabbed" sure didn't stay under their control for long.
Yeah, because of politics and dynasties. Jordan was quickly taken over by the Hashemites who were pushed out of Saudi Arabia. Iraq was too until they kicked the Hashemites out. I don't know about Syria or Lebanon but I know one of them kicked the French out. The various "mandates" had their own governments that tended to turn against European control(just like African colonies). Also, the end of WW2 meant the Atlantic Charter which made it impossible for the British or French to re-assert dominance. Just look at the Suez Crisis.
>>55845116
When someone takes on an idea or belief that becomes the foundation of their personality, there's a chance that that newfound sense of belonging (and in turn, confidence) can manifest itself as overconfidence, potentially driving said person to be very motivated and defensive. How this behavior is guided is the key. This is where religion (or lack thereof) and people come into play.
The ironic thing I'm seeing today as a Muslim is the continued rise of focus being placed on hadith instead of the Quran. And the different mosques I go to on Friday's is telling of this. Turks, Bosnians and South East Asian generally focus on quoting and talking about the Quran. Arabs however, really love to focus on hadith. Just two weeks ago I had the displeasure of hearing the sheikh talk about how using the Gregorian calendar instead of the Islamic lunar one for half an hour. He used hadith after hadith to make it seems like the biggest problem Muslims had today was because of the calendar they were using.
This is a huge part of the problem because many 'extremist' mosques and persons are doing the opposite of what they should - instead of looking at many hadith and seeing if it is supported by the Quran, they're looking at one verse from the Quran and finding many hadith to reinforce it - which negatively directs the motivation of a person, makes them very defensive, and gives reason to perform actions they otherwise wouldn't have.
Looking at pic related alone should tell Muslims how to behave. If God told the Prophet (saw) to have patience over what the disbelievers were saying, then what gives Muslims today the right to chimp out over cartoons and words? Just like Christianity, Islam is being internalized not as a faith, but as a sense of identity. This makes people extremely easy to manipulate, and you're seeing the result.
>>55866183
>Saddam would most definitely still be alive.
Nope. Iran, his people, or terrorists would've killed him for sure.
>He had an actual army.
No he didn't. He had a destroyed army with fake tanks(Lion of Babylon) and internal issues. He was so desperate that he had to act like he had a nuclear/chemical program just to keep the fucking Iranians from attacking. Considering how far he went trying to get everyone to believe he had this program just shows how desperate he was.
The Arab Spring, if nothing else, would've done him in. Unlike Assad, Saddam didn't have much of a military left, didn't have a good friend willing to help him fight his civil war, but did have 2 very hostile neighbors who would each be trying to radicalize their respective sectarian groups in Iraq. Since the Arabs would consider Saddam a doomed prick, they wouldn't hold back in fueling Sunni militants in Iraq due to fears of Shiite victory.
>>55847098
Ill make sure to give you one last opportunity to apologize and denounce islam before i drop zyklon b through the chimney
>>55847098
trudeau pls go
>>55860574
>If he is a Muslim that does not believe those things then whats the problem?
Then he isn't really a Muslim. He's as much a Muslim as my sister was a vegetarian, despite still eating poultry and fish.
>>55845116
wtf, they are the same as we some not so long ago...
also, your fucking colonialist government, amongst other things
>>55868450
Taqqiya allows them to denounce islam long enough to escape.
