Stay strong France.
Behind the curtain of Hitler/deus vult/race war memes i think that the idea that most of /pol/ shares is that the western culture and "white-race" culture of modern day europe is something worth protecting and saving. You have grown up in more or less open societies with possibilities and acceptance towards all - men, women, homosexuals, different races. That is something you want to protect.
On the other hand you see enemies - the muslims, leftists, feminists and all other ideologies are tryiong to tear down the system and open it to cultures and ideologies incompatible with the european model of state and society.
In the face of the reality I have come to think that there are cultures which are not compabtble with the ideas of openess, equality, liberty and acceptance of diversity (in all forms, not just racial one). Worse cultures. I think we can all quite safely say that the culture of dictators, sharia law, jihad and hatred of Yezidi, Kurd, Sunni, shia, you name it - is not a culture that can create prosperity for all.
But as a leftist kek i believe that it's not the people, it's the culture. Culture is contextual mass-phenomenon. Won't you agree too that a well integrated sandnigger in european society could prove to be an asset to the society and the white race too? So that the most important thing with the immigrant waves is to turn the arab-muslim-jihadist-fucktards into westerners, so to say? White people have trash too - hateful cultures who don't want free speech but war and to kill people. Breivik, ultra-nationalists, fascist, communists, we have multiple names for those cultures. And modern Europe as a whole represents none of those. And the "softness" of european communities is the keyto the exellency of those societies compared to the american/chinese/russian/third-worlder harshness. Or am I wrong?
Please do argue with me and prove me wrong. That's the european way.
Vive la France!
The point is that I hope that in the wake of this horribly shitty wase of human life in hands of petty terrorists France and Europe can still stay true to their softness - their european values. Hatred and "war on terrorism" or "race war" are not the answers, they just create the vicious cycle of violence which hurts everyone. And I think that is what you here in /pol/ in my opinion should try to remember too.
I know that /pol/ isn't exactly too keen on people spewing "leftist propaganda", but I believe in free speech and the capability of human beings to engage in conversation and comne out of it as better people. I'm here to discuss and argue, but im not here to try to impose my ideas onto you - on the contrary, I'm trying to understand your viewpoint and i'm prepared to admit I might be wrong
Come on faggots i now we can have a real discussion
few more tries: bumb
>>55684655
Your argument is that the best policy for Europe towards radicial Muslim infiltrators is to continue being passive towards them?
>>55685644
Muslim infiltrators - no. All terrorists and potential terrorists should be treated as criminals which they are.
Regarding the immigration crisis -there's no sense in condemning those people who just want to live their lives in peace (i.e. most of the refugees) to those war-torn regions in the middle-east. That's how they turn into terrorists.
I think Europe needs to stay calm. As an american you should understand how getting overly paniced and reinforcing "security" just makes everyones' lives miserable.
allright, ill resort to memeposting because this board cannot discuss.
the european way was building forts and keeping them away from our lands
not worth the risk to let any in
out with them all, they dont belong here
>>55685960
>refugees
What fucking refugees? Barely any of them even manage to fit the retarded leftist definition of refugee, and if you use actual international law, exactly zero of them meet the qualifications.
These people aren't refugees, they're leeches looking for free shit and if it isn't given willingly then they'll try to take it by force.
>>55684655
You're wrong. It's not simply culture. Generations have passed genes. Some from fathers that have worked hard and studied hard, expressing the best genetics. Others come from illiterate, ignoble savagery. It would take many generations to even bring that lot up to speed. You silly idealist.
>>55688064
Do you truly believe that? That genetics define our person? That we are not the masters of our own identity?
>>55686998
For most of the countries there never was the possibility of "not letting them in". Eastern europe is so shitty that it's no wonder the refugees don't want there. Poles don't want to be in poland.
But your countries are safe. That's why I think you could take refugees.
>>55687058
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Refugees are people who escape shitty living conditions, as in deadly living conditions. I don't think that's retarded.
What I do think is that none of them should be allowed to retain their shitty anti-european way of life attitudes. They are in europe, they have to be european.
>Behind the curtain of Hitler/deus vult/race war memes i think that the idea that most of /pol/ shares is that the western culture and "white-race" culture of modern day europe is something worth protecting and saving. You have grown up in more or less open societies with possibilities and acceptance towards all - men, women, homosexuals, different races. That is something you want to protect.
On the other hand you see enemies - the muslims, leftists, feminists and all other ideologies are tryiong to tear down the system and open it to cultures and ideologies incompatible with the european model of state and society.
couldn't have said it better myself.
>Won't you agree too that a well integrated sandnigger in european society could prove to be an asset to the society and the white race too?
Yes, a hard working person of any background can prove to be a valuable asset to any community.
> So that the most important thing with the immigrant waves is to turn the arab-muslim-jihadist-fucktards into westerners, so to say?
Good fuckin luck. If they haven't assimilated into European culture thus far they never will. It is obvious that they don't want European culture. Middle eastern immigrants simply migrate and then continue to follow their backwards, barbaric ideology. Which ties back into your first paragraph. European culture is something worth protecting and saving, why dilute it with millions of backwards non-progressive morons?
>>55689415
And most of them aren't escaping war zones. I have absolutely no problem with women and children seeking refuge in a country to escape war. If you are a man, you fight and die for your country, plain and simple.
Almost all of these "refugees" are simply taking advantage of the situation in order to reap the benefits of a first world country.
>>55690433
Yeah the last part is an utopian idea. But what I was trying to say, is that if you agree that not race, but culture matters, and that culture and identity of a person can change, then you are agreeing that there is an immense amount of potential in the immigrants. And in my opinion that is a relieving thought.
I don't really suggest that we should accept hateful muslim idiots as they are. Im suggesting that the jihadist way of thinking isn't that far from the "race war" and "fuck muslims" mentality of this board. And that maybe people here should think about that.
I'm still a leftist so I'm anti-hatred and pro-acceptance, but i wish i've made it clear why i think like that. Fuck fascism and jihadism and oppression.
And I think you could agree with me.
>>55690888
I think that it's a bit unfair to judge the refugees for trying to get to a better place to live here in europe. That's what they've been doing all the time. It's a fact. There's nothing to discuss about that. They are trying to enjoy our peace and prosperity. The difference between you and me here is that i think that's something they should be allowed to do - for all our sakes.
Regarding the "fighting for your country" -thing, if you're a sunni muslim the ISIS is fighting for your country. And I for one don't want any more peopple fighting for sunni faith and people. There are no real countries to die for in the levant except for Israel and maybe Kurdistan.
I also think that fighting is not a part of the solution. We should negotiate with sunnis and divide the land by ethnicity and enforce peace between those countries to stabilize the region. And doing that helps every european country AND the white european culture you are so worried for.
>>55690889
>Im suggesting that the jihadist way of thinking isn't that far from the "race war" and "fuck muslims" mentality of this board. With every political viewpoint you will find "them"
yup, it is basically the same shit but just the opposite side of the pendulum.
Look I don't hate you lefties, I really don't, you guys mean well but you just don't think realistically at all.
There is no simple answer to this. genetics/culture/society all changes who a person is. All we can do is look at what is happening currently and make a judgement based off that. Muslims are flooding into Europe in a mass exodus. They are failing to assimilate and want no part in European culture. Many are afraid that because of this, overtime, European culture will die out.
It is to early to tell but a lot of people on this board have the mentality of "its us against them, and at the end of the day I will choose my fellow man over them". You might have trouble seeing it from this viewpoint as a leftist because the way you see things isn't exactly the same as we view things.
>>55691557
>With every political viewpoint you will find "them"
oops that part wasn't meant to be in green text
>>55684655
I'm not sure what you're actually trying to say. I agree with most of it, but what's the point of this post?
>>55684711
Oh. You kind of have to wage war on terrorists though. I mean you can't just "turn the other cheek" or discuss shit with people who are prepared to die and kill themselves for a fucking symbolic victory.
Besides you seem to forget Europeans have probably a bigger history of war than peace.
And yeah, war has terrible consequences, and the fact that terrorists hide themselves among civilians (which, I mean, it's shitty but that's what you do when you gorilla warfare) causes war to make life (well, death) terrible for innocent people. Which in turn creates more hatred towards the west, making a vicious cycle.
I don't think war is a perfect solution at all, or not even really a solution, but really, what the fuck are the other options?
We're not going to just make the world enough of a better place that people stop being assholes. So you sort of got to do you, protect your way, even by force. Even if we aren't always fair. It sucks, I hate it, and I know that it wouldn't end future conflicts, but right now honestly this shit has got to stop.
Does anyone have the info graph of Muslims answering simple to suicide attack type questions? It's just a circle that has the multiple surveys within it. We need to spread the word.
>>55684655
> it's not the people, it's the culture
I agree with you, but with all this Multicult bullshit how are we meant to Westernise these people?
>>55684655
I'll refute your premise in an indefensible way- the openly people STUPID enough to believe that Muslims are capable of becoming an integral part of western society are those who have never lived among them. Period.
You and all the other multicultural loving hippie faggots can sit around singing kum-bi-yah until the end of time and it will not change the fact that every last Muslim is a subhuman who has no place in the modern human race.
>>55691427
>wants to redivide the land based on European ideals of how it should be done.
You are literally just trying to redo colonialism instead of dealing with the problem as it stands. You are out of touch.
>>55684655
>it's not the people, it's the culture
They are inseparable
>i think that the idea that most of /pol/ shares is that the western culture and "white-race" culture of modern day europe is something worth protecting and saving
fuck no modern European ''culture'' is worthless hollow shit, a mass media americanized trash culture with lots of insidious Marxist social engineering to top off the shit pie
>>55690433
>If they haven't assimilated into European culture thus far they never will. It is obvious that they don't want European culture. Middle eastern immigrants simply migrate and then continue to follow their backwards, barbaric ideology.
That hasn't been my experience, honestly. I understand the muslims in shitty french banlieues are like that, but the muslims (and muslim descendants) I meet every day here (Geneva) are mostly normal people. That doesn't mean Islam isn't a pretty shitty religion, even by religions standards, but I've seen 2nd generationers so well integrated and participating so much in society that it would almost be a shame for them to not be here.
Ghettoisation is the worst, though, if muslims are only with other muslims in shitty places, they will not integrate. Not blaming host countries for that, just saying.
>>55691557
>>55691708
I've started so many posts today with "I think" that it starts to wear down, but i have no other way of reinforcing the point that this is all based on purely my opinion and philosophy, but here I go again.
I think that the modern european culture/mentality of "letting people be whatever they want to be" is the key behind our modern peacefulness. We can co-operate and co-exist. That in my opinion is the true heart of multiculturalism, not "every way of life and ideology is equal", because they obviously are not.
The only response Europe and France can have to these attacks is to continue to not hate people based on their religion, homeland or race. We need to educate and make the immigrants think like we do - not let them ghetto up and segregate. That's what really makes for example the swedish model of immigration so shitty. They don't want to accept the fact that their culture truly is the way the right wing nutjobs say: superior to the middle-eastern retardness. But it is not so with people. There are shitty white people and shitty brown people, and i think that proves that this is not fundamentally about race and genetics.
>>55690888
>And most of them aren't escaping war zones.
You got a source on that?
>>55692189
Some commas please
i agree with you OP
I've always hated cultures, not races
just like a bad parent raises a bad child, bad culture raises bad people
too bad these nigger subhumans have been brainwashed for too long, too bad even our culture has problems though
>>55691427
>Regarding the "fighting for your country" -thing, if you're a sunni muslim the ISIS is fighting for your country. And I for one don't want any more peopple fighting for sunni faith and people. There are no real countries to die for in the levant except for Israel and maybe Kurdistan.
Yeah but see, just living in your country doesn't make people your countrymen, at least by heart. That's why ISIS is able to recruit in Europe.
>I also think that fighting is not a part of the solution. We should negotiate with sunnis and divide the land by ethnicity and enforce peace between those countries to stabilize the region.
I'm pretty sure that would mean fighting. None of the parties in this war are going to just let go of their ambitions and let European dogs awkwardly cut their country in 3 parts.
>>55691427
>I think that it's a bit unfair to judge the refugees for trying to get to a better place to live here in Europe.... They are trying to enjoy our peace and prosperity. The difference between you and me here is that i think that's something they should be allowed to do
you see a lot of people have a problem with this thought and I will you why.
There are Literally billions of people suffering in the world, whether it be from Africa, South America, Middle East etc. Letting in a couple million is not even making a dent on that problem. If there was a button right in front of me that, when pressed, would allow the whole world to live peacefully in a first world country I would press it immediately without second thought. It just isn't possible. If they are failing to assimilate then European countries will simply revert to Islamic dominated countries, ones they are trying to escape.
Life isn't beautiful. Its cruel and harsh. As much as I wish it was a homogeneous society where everyone got along, it just can't be that way. We are all humans with human needs and wants. We all stereotype, judge, hate, love all the same, and we all tend to favor those who look most like us. We will never avoid conflict or completely get rid of it. It has been happening before Humans even evolved into homo sapiens, and will continue until the end of humanity.
At the end of the day we just try to secure the best future for our self and for our children, which I understand the Muslim "refugees" are trying to do, but do it in your own country.
>>55691708
>>55691930
I agree that everything would be better if europeans ruled the middle-east the way we rule europe nowadays. But that's no longer a possibilty, so to be a realist i have to dismiss that option.
We have to be strict with terrorism, but like with all criminals, we should not reinforce the cycle of criminality, but to try to rehabilitate and negotiate - even if it sounds wrong. That's how peace can be achieved and the immigrants stopped.
And i understand that this all is such a big of a cluster fuck that there are no simple and understandable solution, just years of work. You too should maybe try to examine your call to anti-muslim/arab action that it might be just too crude of a tool to solve the situation.
otherwise I wouldn't discard it. But did the violence by ISIS make France cover? fuck no. I dont think it works the other way around either.
>>55691557
>It is to early to tell but a lot of people on this board have the mentality of "its us against them, and at the end of the day I will choose my fellow man over them". You might have trouble seeing it from this viewpoint as a leftist because the way you see things isn't exactly the same as we view things.
I'm a leftist but I understand basic tribalism and why it's beneficial.
Hell, that's also what allows leftists to go all "muh internationalism, we all human beans"
Draft all the refugees and make them fight ISIS for their right to stay in Europe. No more of this fleeing shit. Stay and fight radical Islam or live with the consequences of being a pussy and leaving it to everybody else.
>>55692442
Or just not let muslims into your country
They have no right to live there and euopeans have no responsibility to shelter and educate them. Euros are literally killing their culture, race, and traditional religion and for what? None of them are even close to worth what you lose by granting them permission to live in western society. They should be kissing your ass with gratitude to live in your land and your society. If they don't like it, don't bother coming, but they clearly have no right to it.
>>55692487
self explanatory.
why not stop at any of the countries in between?
>>55691864
>>55692064
I'm repeating myself but do you really think that we are bound to our birth and genetics? That we are not able to actively change who we are?
I do not. I can be whoever I want. Let us not fall into fatalism, because we obviously have options.
>>55684655
>the western culture and "white-race" culture of modern day europe is something worth protecting and saving
and what is this culture that needs to be saved?
>>55693327
We both know those countries suck compared to the rest of europe. You wouldn't stop there. It's not fair that they don't stay in their countries, but the world is not fair. We have to deal with unjust and unfair people and situations, and do what benefits everyone. Because that's the only thing that benefits us.
>>55693420
>Sweden
fucking hell lad, you people are walking stereotypes
>>55693420
>Sweden
JA
Arise children of the fatherland
The day of glory has arrived
Against us tyranny's
Bloody standard is raised
Listen to the sound in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers
They are coming into our midst
To cut the throats of your sons and consorts
To arms citizens Form your battalions
March, march
Let impure blood
Water our furrows
What do they want this horde of slaves
Of traitors and conspiratorial kings?
For whom these vile chains
These long-prepared irons?
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage
What methods must be taken?
It is us they dare plan
To return to the old slavery!
What! These foreign cohorts!
They would make laws in our courts!
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would cut down our warrior sons
Good Lord! By chained hands
Our brow would yield under the yoke
The vile despots would have themselves be
The masters of destiny
Tremble, tyrants and traitors
The shame of all good men
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will receive their just reward
Against you we are all soldiers
If they fall, our young heros
France will bear new ones
Ready to join the fight against you
Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors
Bear or hold back your blows
Spare these sad victims
That they regret taking up arms against us
But not these bloody despots
These accomplices of Bouillé
All these tigers who pitilessly
Ripped out their mothers' wombs
We too shall enlist
When our elders' time has come
To add to the list of deeds
Inscribed upon their tombs
We are much less jealous of surviving them
Than of sharing their coffins
We shall have the sublime pride
Of avenging or joining them
Drive on sacred patriotism
Support our avenging arms
Liberty, cherished liberty
Join the struggle with your defenders
Under our flags, let victory
Hurry to your manly tone
So that in death your enemies
See your triumph and our glory!
>>55684655
I just got out of bed. What happened in France?
>>55693133
That sounds awesome, but how do you think that would stop the cycle of violence?
If it would i'd be the first to DEUS VULT around killing jihadists. But it doesn't work like that unfortunately.
>>55693327
Because they want to start over and give their children the best possible life they. That's why so many people from the Yugoslavian war went to place beyond Austria and Hungary.
>>55693420
The political and social culture. We have successful states. That's worth something.
The nigs wouldn't be pouring into your country, if you didn't do something right. Be proud of that.
>>55693504
>>55693524
Look I'm just tired of people saying
>We must preserve our culture
>We must save our culture
>Our culture must be protected
And then being unable to say what the culture is. There isn't even something called western culture or "white-race" culture because every nation in Europe is so different when it comes to culture. You can't just categorises it all as western culture
>>55692976
The problem with not agitating the masses to anti-islamism is that europe is lazy by nature. Message of "turn the other cheek" is good and all, but it also allow most countries to default back to doing nothing but being a passive observer and hoping the next murder will happen to their neighbor than to themselves.
Without adgitation, we will default back to "strongly condemn the actions" sort of statements, and then go on with our lives without giving a fuck about the jihadists going and coming from middle east to our mids. We need to make use of crude generalizations to make our leaders at least adress the problem in some way.
There will be innocent muslims that will get beaten up because of this, but id rather have the problem being attempted to be solved than ignored since "fighting is not european".
>>55693605
ISIS killed and wounded hundreds of civilians in Paris. Shitty situation.
>>55693500
and how exactly would sheltering millions of refugees be beneficial to any European country?
You said it yourself, those countries suck. They don't want to live in Turkey, or Greece. They want Germany. What obligation does Germany have to bring in millions of Muslims that are a complete determent to their economy? Oh, because its the "nice" and "right" thing to do. please. The lefts political views are more often then not swayed by their empathetic emotions.
>>55692442
>I think that the modern european culture/mentality of "letting people be whatever they want to be"
But we don't do that. The principle has always been "you can be what you want to be, except don't do those things". That's called law.
Part of the current issue is that some people value other laws above those of the nation they live in. And I mean we all have personal morals and shit, and changing laws can exist, but we do have to defend the laws and principles of our countries against those who want to precisely tarnish that accepting utopia we've built. How do you propose we do that?
>The only response Europe and France can have to these attacks is to continue to not hate people based on their religion, homeland or race.
You don't have to hate to wage war. I don't mind muslims as people, by experience, I've got muslim friends, but still fuck Islam. I don't see what benefices it can bring to our mostly secular society.
>We need to educate and make the immigrants think like we do - not let them ghetto up and segregate. That's what really makes for example the swedish model of immigration so shitty. They don't want to accept the fact that their culture truly is the way the right wing nutjobs say: superior to the middle-eastern retardness. But it is not so with people.
I agree with that but it doesn't seem to be that easy. Honestly I think Switzerland does a gret job of integrating immigrants, but I'd wager we still do have sleeper terrorists cells. Hell even France doesn't do that terrible of a job, besides the ghettoisation, and still it's terrible.
Hey m8, the "I think" is implied.
>>55693969
>The lefts political views are more often then not swayed by their empathetic emotions.
And what fuels the right political views, cold logic? Should we kill everyone who is handicapped and out of work because they aren't benefiting society, after all that would be the logical thing to do.
>>55693825
if there's no culture, how come the immigrants don't easily integrate? Why is there a crisis?
If there were no cultural differences, they would be just pure young workforce - aka money. We both know that's not the case.
>>55692945
>As much as I wish it was a homogeneous society where everyone got along, it just can't be that way. We are all humans with human needs and wants.
According to science-fiction, a monoculture is necessary before we start properly colonizing other planets.
Not much relevance, just saying.
>>55693825
>it's not clearly objectively defined because you can pick holes in it
>therefore just passively let it die out I mean come on it's CURRENT YEAR
And yet this logic is never applied by clucks to anybody else's culture. China is huge and diverse but you'd never get away with saying 'fuck their culture I mean are you defining it as exclusively Han or Communist or what lmao who cares'
>>55694129
I'm not saying there is no culture, I'm just saying that the people who calls for it's defence are usually the ones who are sloppy at explaining it. I can't defend something unless I'm told what it is I'm defending.
>>55693935
Oh, shit.
>>55684655
upvote +1 for you
>>55694104
They're both swayed by emotions. That's what obviously helps formulate an opinion.
Note:empathetic
>>55693839
I'd agree, if I didn't know that violence is a strategically stupid move. I'm not a blind leftist, or at least i'm trying not to be. I think that violence isn't an inherently bad thing - there are people who should not be alive. But i know that violence breed violence and hurts everyone. I dont know what to do with terrorism, but I dont think that waging any kind of war or anti-race mentalities will solve anything. If I thought they could, i would agree with the majority /pol/.
>>55684655
The only way we'll know peace in the Yuropan Caliphate is to breed out and kill all the white men and to us all praise Allah. You aren't racist are you? Hating muslims is racist I learned at my liberal arts college.
- t. Liberal
>>55694264
Who said anything about letting it die? Don't put words in my mouth, what I'm asking for is definition, explanation and clearance.
>>55693839
This. We are all too passive. People on pol might like to constantly post about doing something etc, but the reality is that they never really do anything themselves.
>>55694386
You make it sound like right wings are lacking in empathy.
>>55694104
>>55693969
I've got to somewhat agree with sweden, but america, haven't I been logical in this thread? Haven't I tried to explore the functional and reasonable reactions to the terrorist attacks and the refugee crisis? Or am I just being emotional? Because I'm trying to convince you. I know that hippie-love-and-peace are not automatic values to you. So i won't endorse them as such - I'm trying to point out that they are indeed locigal options.
>>55694591
Lacking of empathy for other cultures. its evident is it not? Just spend 10 minutes on this board.
Like I said, the world isn't sunshine and rainbows. When you are ready to take off your rose tinted glasses and face reality let me know. Until then keep coddling yourself.
>>55692976
>I agree that everything would be better if europeans ruled the middle-east the way we rule europe nowadays.
I certainly don't agree with that. Let us actually fuck off from there, neo-colonialism only makes things worse.
>We have to be strict with terrorism, but like with all criminals, we should not reinforce the cycle of criminality, but to try to rehabilitate and negotiate - even if it sounds wrong.
I understand that. Do you understand the "international" part of "international terrorist organization"? While there is some amount of cooperation between polices and military of different countries, so-called renegade countries or lawless countries are among those that harbour the upper echelon of most muslim terrorist organizations. How do you propose we deal with that? Because rehabilitating terrorists after they've acted (on the condition they don't fucking suicide-bomb) doesn't really stop them from recruiting even more terrorists. Hell that's a big part of their strategy of making spectacular attacks.
>You too should maybe try to examine your call to anti-muslim/arab action that it might be just too crude of a tool to solve the situation.
Believe me I have. As 30 year old man who's only ever voted for leftist parties, you can believe I believe in peace. But better people than you and me have tried, are trying. The Middle East has been a clusterfuck for so fucking long.
Yeah war is blunt, crude and cruel, and possibly inefficient. I'm not calling for a war, mind you, but this time I won't be protesting it if it happens. Doing nothing surely isn't going to solve anything, and if we want to put our nose in there, we seriously want to whip out the heavy artillery this time.
>But did the violence by ISIS make France cover?
I don't understand what you mean.
>>55693177
you know that's not gonna happen though.
>>55694273
I understand.
What I'm meaning with culture is the set of commonly accepted base set of ways of communicating, the basic ethics of right and wrong and reason, the common way of solving problems and such. Those things are healthier and better in "the west" and it subcultures in every single nation than they are in for example, Iraq. Those attitudes from our societies are the ones I want to protect, because i think they are beneficial and worthy.
>>55693327
They did though. Where do you think they've been going the last few years?
>>55684655
vive la france
>>55693596
Relevant
https://youtu.be/mLq7EcvRaf0
>>55694516
Well by what criteria do you want it defined, other than 'white+European'? All the information you need is right there.
>>55693605
Oh all things you do you come on pool
>>55685644
Europe needs to stop refugees invasian and needs to attack more ISIS together with USA
>>55694484
Kek
Yeah, im a leftist liberal, not a retard. There are retarded "leftists" and "feminists" and I despise their ideology as much as i despise the right wing retards like tea party.
But I do think that everyone might have some good points in their ideology. There is something reasonable in christianity, nazism, islam and socialism. I believe we should not be idealists, but try to pick the good thoughts and let the shitty ones be.
>>55694482
I am not advocating for "DEUS VULT" sort of beheadings. I want to make europe shred its politically correct mantle and adress the retardation of the muslim community among us without any shelter from "all religeons are the same" sort of mentality.
If we´d stop providing the muslims so much excuses for their extremists, they would be forced to introspect and remove the most hostile parts among themselves to fit in with us. Sadly, instead every time any bad things could be said about them, a wall of people jump up to defend them from criticism since they know it will lead to conflicts within and without their community.
The people advocating to leave all muslims alone are just kicking the problem down the road a few years or months, untill the next time a massacre happens.
Its time to force europe to stop defending them from their worst, and force them to accept responsibility for their actions, not spare their feelings because "moderate muslims arent like that".
>>55694770
I get what you are trying to say. You have to realize your opinions don't click with me and vice versa simply because me and you have a different view point on the world.
I might call your view point unrealistic and you might call mine selfish, but I choose to think this way because of the experiences in my life like you chose to believe yours based off the experiences in your life.
>>55694591
They kinda are. Leftism is dominated by peace and love - to a retarded amount. On the other hand right wing is so full of narrow minded xenophobic nationalism that it's ridicolous.
>>55694937
Why should you be expected to have empathy on people who hate you and want you to die? Are you some kind of... wittol?
>>55684655
Qu'un sang impure abrzuve nos sillons !
>>55684655
Paris truly deserves this until they join the Coalition of the Willing of George Bush and rename their city Freedom Town.
Le Frog is just Le Commie.
>>55693969
No obligation, it's straight-up charity coupled with economic reasons (cheap workers for corporations based in Europe).
Let's not pretend the economic right doesn't benefit from immigration, even of unskilled workers.
>>55695294
Like I said earlier the culture of Europe is very different from country to country, you want to save European culture? Fine what parts of it, for example it's German culture to shut up and do as the bosses say even if it's wrong (thats how this whole BMW scandal was able to happen in the first place) while in England you are allowed to call the boss on his mistake as long as you are polite about it.
For that matter what is white, are Bosnians and Albanians white? By the definition of White i.e. Caucasians they are but their skin colour is so different.
Where does Europe end for that matter?
>>55695468
...I don't think we disagreed in the first place.
I'm just saying that this board could use a healthy amount of differing opinions and anti-muslim hatred. It's really easy to hate, especially muslims and niggers nowadays.
>>55694129
>aka money. We both know that's not the case.
Money for corporations =/= money for the state/people.
Having a large pool of potential unskilled workers is necessary for large corporations to keep the threat of unemploiyement, and thus wages and social advantages low.
>>55695593
Refugges are not terrorits, but could infiltrate pretty easy among them. Europe must close its borders now
This is the Coalition of the Willing. Can you see France? Do you know where France is?
>>55694273
Fun fact: there was a large internet poll conducted by the French governement a few years ago (under Sarkozy) about what "French identity" was exactly.
Lots of trolling ensued, no consensus was reached and the idea was mocked by the media.
>>55684655
It should be pretty clear to most people now that people from different ethnic backgrounds simply think differently. There is a fundamental mental difference here as real as the gap between male and female.
Some of them will be willing to change their ways but for most it is a lost cause.
And considering how many there are, no matter how well integrated they are, they will still hurt the white gene pool. Perhaps some can be so red pilled that they decide the best thing is to leave. That is the best you can hope for.
>>55695853
Muh conspiracy
>>55695496
That's a common point to make. But shouldn't we rather try to find a compromise that fits both views instead of just giving up and saying "we can never agree". That's an argumentative dead-end.
Selfishness is the basic human instinct. I'm trying to sell this leftist compassion to you through selfish arguments. It's beneficial to YOU to try to co-exist and deal with different people, because you have to and the other option just hurts yourself too.
Or is there some other way I cannot see yet?
>>55695729
Too much things are labled under hatred these days, and dismissed outright without any analysis. Its the leftists version of "misogynists!!!", fed to you by half-truths.
>>55695966
Western interventions into Iraq & Libya were a mistake.
>>55684655
You had me going until
>And the "softness" of european communities is the keyto the exellency of those societies compared to the american/chinese/russian/third-worlder harshness.
At that point I realized you were just shitposting.
Sage
A
G
E
Are the Kurds the best chance at removing ISIS?
>>55696185
I want these idiotic american nationalists from reddit to leave.
>>55695729
Honestly my hatred is strongest for the leftie liberal arts college faggots who constantly dick-ride Islam and blacks.
They roam social media defaming the character of anybody who doesn't defend the actions of either of these groups unanimously even if you differentiate militants from non-combatants in who to hate.
I've been called a xenophobe and a racist against anybody who looks different to me enough times in the last 24 hours for hating ISIS and the irony is, I'm hispanic and would be assumed arab if I went to Europe today.
Liberals are so fucking stupid its unbelievable.
>>55689089
>read the blank slate
>>55695524
to make them have no reason to hate you and want you to die? War is not a unavoidable state of things.
I know it sounds... backwards. But forgiveness and pacifism are traits I consider crucial for co-existance. And I think the war on terror which US has waged fos a decade is proof enough that we just can't end terrorist threat by killing terrorists.
>>55689245
Are you a six-year-old, or they don't teach history in Finland?
>>55695403
>There is something reasonable in christianity, nazism, islam and socialism. I believe we should not be idealists, but try to pick the good thoughts and let the shitty ones be.
>>55696121
A light-touch was the mistake.
Had western society brought down the full force of the military might then things would be completely different.
Mudshits are incompatible with western values and should either be contained or eradicate.
>>55695593
>Let's not pretend the economic right doesn't benefit from immigration, even of unskilled workers.
This is the conclusion I came to since I started to think about the refugee crisis from multiple angles in summer. Its the neoliberal capitalists who gain the most from the so called refugees flowing in. They are also coincidentaly the ones who fund the people in power and probably have some sway in the EU government.
The neoprogressives aka the SJW who thinks its his duty to label any nationalist as an extremist and do the equalivents in US are the useful idiots exploited by the neoliberals.
>>55695710
You're asking for an impossible definition. Something as huge as a pan-continental culture could never be defined down to that level of detail but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means you're being pointlessly reductive. I'm sure there are a million subtle differences between one Syrian district and the next, let alone between Syria and Saudi Arabia but that doesn't mean there's no such thing as an Arab.
>>55695403
this
>>55696306
Dank reddit maymay, newfriend
I didn't read everything but first, thanks for your concern and support OP, we really appreciate it.
But the problem is, we don't know our enemies. I mean, we know that terrorists are sandniggers, sometimes niggers, but we have so many immigrants that come every year. How can we recognize the ones that plan to Allahu Akbar our cities?
The safest way to avoid another series of shootings (which are inevitable, ISIS promised us more trouble), would be to close our frontiers permanently to Africa and Minor Asia, so that no more terrorist can come (and by the way, no more sandniggers, which would be great since we have too many of them here and we can't stand it anymore). But it's too late, we've already let in too much potential terrorists, so even if we don't accept them anymore, ISIS "agents" who are now in France will strike again, maybe not in Paris this time (the whole army is going to hunt the terrorists here), but in another city like Lyon, Marseille, Strasbourg, etc. to prove they're everywhere and we are no longer safe in our own country.
So, OP, fuck multiculturalism, their religion is a problem, their culture is a problem, they are a problem, and we have no solution to stop ISIS in France, and in the rest of Europe (France is only the beginning, Germany and UK are next). Europe is fucked, m8. Why? Because of anti-racism, multiculturalism, and those politicians who let our countries getting fucked by Allahu Akbars. The biggest problem isn't the culture (they can apply Sharia law in their shithole if they want, idgaf), it's their massive immigration and their will to take over Europe.
Say that in France, and you'll be called a racist and put into jail.
>>55695989
That's what happens when you do polls on the internet.
>>55696682
I know it exists, but as you can see it's hard to defy which makes it harder to defend and rally to.
>I'm sure there are a million subtle differences between one Syrian district and the next
But they are still under the flag of Syrian culture, all you did was move from one district to the next not country to country.
>>55696049
>But shouldn't we rather try to find a compromise that fits both views instead of just giving up and saying "we can never agree".
I can understand that you aren't arguing for an unrealistic Utopian society, but rather arguing for better, achieveable relationships between already hated societies. Yes there could be more progress in these areas, progress the right likes to fight about...
...But lets take that point and bring it back to Europe. What compromise could we possibly come up with? Muslims who want nothing more then to see the world dominated by Islam.
look at it like this: imagine you are sitting there,alone, just eating your cake. A man comes up to you and demands half your cake. You ask the man, "what compromise do I get by giving you half my cake?" and the man says,"well, you get the other half of your cake!" Is that really much of a compromise?
>>55696384
Nah, you don't make treaties with the devil and expect him to spare your soul for it.
Also I consider the "US War on Terror" to have created the very conditions that put the Middle East into the state it is in now.
>>55696034
That's not even close to what a conspiracy is. That's a very simple economic fact that more unskilled workers is beneficial for corporations.
It's also a fact that the reason Europe has been opening its borders for 30 years is to lessen the impact of the baby boomers retiring. Those are economical reasons, not "muh bleeding heart, those poor people" reasons.
>>55696337
Wihtout saying if you're right or wrong in my opinion: remember that not being prepared to dispute your own opinions is the way to close-mindedness. And that is a danger with any ideology, leftist or right-wing. Close minded idiots are stupid whatever their ideology is.
>>55696859
This to be honest, family. It's a slow ride into oblivion and narcissistic self-loathing westerners are the navigators
>>55696859
>we have no solution to stop ISIS in France
Seems like not letting every piece of shit that wants to enter your country in would be a good start, France.
When you see 4,000 guys walking out of a war-zone with back packs toward your country with no women or children maybe you should start thinking there's something wrong with that.
>>55689415
If that's true, why don't they stay in Eastern Europe? It's not cushy but people aren't being killed like the country they are fleeing from.
It's all about the $$, Finland. Don't be naive.
>>55696972
>But they are still under the flag of Syrian culture, all you did was move from one district to the next not country to country
That's not incompatible with the idea of pan-Arab culture though, nationality IS somefthing you can define exactly but a Syrian Kurd and a Syrian Arab might well have less in common than two Arabs from different countries. I know they share a language where Europeans from different countries don't but you see what I'm getting at right?
Literally all you western eurokeks need to do is stop letting immigrants assimilate you and giving in to the demands of snowflake minorities. Do the opposite. People who come to your country should respect its values and culture. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Refusing to suck islamic dick doesn't make you neither a fascist nor a racist. I agree with OP about it being cultural and not racial, but the sissy mentality of letting everyone fuck you in the ass is what caused this mess in the first place.
>>55697329
Well I'm sorry if you think I'm close minded and an idiot for not wavering my position on ISIS. The only solution for that organization is total slaughter and dissolution.
You can go try to win them over with hugs if you like, however, but don't be surprised if they take your head with it.
>>55697329
>leftist or right-wing.
Please stop using this extremely outdated way to look at the political spectrum. Its at least political compass way(x and y axis) or even more complex in reality.
>>55693825
culture is what the people do
the culture of acceptance is a culture, and it is defining to europe, we've always been fascinated with the foreign world, our stories are filled with accounts of encounters with the other
people here have such a deep seated desire to travel and to see, almost unique
the culture of truth, justice, and lawfulness, of altruism, of individuality, of freedom for the person
the problem is that western culture is so normalized to you that you can't see the forest for the trees, and if you look around a little bit you will see clearly that this culture is not represented well except in the west
culture is that which is cultivated, and ethnos is that which is innate
>>55696337
>I'm hispanic and would be assumed arab if I went to Europe today.
We can tell. We have "hispanics" here.
>>55696859
I have to go, sadly you're here a little late for me.
Stay strong and calm is the message here from me.
It's not that anyone is ready for a race war. Well all of us are, but not the normalfag. These Muslim immigrants do not want to be inegrated. It would be good if they did, but they dont. When you have a massive population of immigrants from a culture that is evil, violence at a large scale becomes inevitable. Everything points to more bloodshed and more violence.
Every other week I see another weapons shipment being captured. Who knows how many are in Europe unaccounted for? You have over 1 million potential combatants with more coming in by the day. Ypu also have a population of people who are getting very pissed off.
Peace and harmony and integration is a beautiful idea, however human history and the current state of affairs makes this utopia almost impossible. It's not a matter of whether you want a race war or not, but rather "how long will it last?".
>>55696735
you probably think 9/11 was muslims and that the holocaust happened
>>55684655
Just a reminder:
It was a
FALSE FLAG
A
L
S
E
FLAG
L
A
G
Why protect values like "acceptance" when it's exactly those values that have created this problem in the first place? These are weak and soulless values anyways. Blood, tradition, identity: these are all that matter. Every man will value his own childrens' lives over some black panhandler on the street, and deep in his soul even a leftist will feel more kinship with his own race than with alien races; he will deny it of course, but look at who his friends are, his romantic partners, where he chooses to live and it becomes very clear. Europe must embrace these deep and timeless instincts if it is to survive.
>>55697410
As I said, we can close our frontiers to sandnignogs, but we already have to much of them living here, and among them potential terrorist. This can be a solution, but it sure won't get us rid of every terrorist threat
>>55697615
Thanks m8
>>55689245
>lets be the shield of western fags
you deserve everything happen to you
get bombed by ahmed disgusting limp wristed fag
>>55695403
The main problem we have now is that extremists in other religions/cultures are for the most part just windbags who say a lot of things and do nothing while muslims are the only group where the extremists actually actively kill a lot of people. Blaming a whole race/nation/culture for what someone there does is one of the oldest traits of humanity. You wouldn't buy a bag of apples knowing one is filled with deadly poison after all, it's a form of self preservation.
It'll be hard from now on for everyone since especially around here average citizens were already pretty anti-immigrant and this is going to make it worse. Even the more peaceful muslims will get shit for this and in turn it will make them more reserved and angry towards white people.
>>55697771
It was the lizardmen -- clearly.
>>55696384
>And I think the war on terror which US has waged fos a decade is proof enough that we just can't end terrorist threat by killing terrorists.
Are you aware of what "we" did in the decades before then, what lead us to the pre-9/11 situation?
"We" did soft power in the middle east. A fuckload. Arguably with the wrong methods, targetting the wrong people, but I'm not sure what makes you think we'd be better at it now that the situation there is less accepting of westerners than ever, precisely because of our misuse of soft power.
We tried with a scalpel and we butchered it.
>>55696859
You guys don't deport people?
>>55684655
The Muslims do not seem to be integrating well into France
I had a french exchange student, a pious strict Muslim who turned out to be a real piece of shit.
She was big on criticizing American culture, at first it was just like whatever, she has culture shock, but after two whole weeks of her saying stuff like "you actually eat that stuff?!" and "A Muslim girl would never do that!" and other such offhand insults it started to get to me. She would complain to her friends that our family did not suit her special Muslim needs (because we drank wine and ate pork, which we btw made sure to give up when he got here) she made us go out and buy her special Halal meat, which wasn't a big deal we understood, but afterwords she didn't say thank you, and instead she went to complain to her friends again that we didn't ALREADY have halal meat prepared for her for when she came. I always felt that we got a Muslim exchange student, not a French one, I mean I know she was kind of a bitch, which had nothing to do with here being Muslim, but still.
>>55698132
I wish we would
>>55696554
Yep. Open immigration is as much of a product of so-called neoliberalism as it is of so-called cultural marxism.
>>55684655
It's the culture indeed, exactly the reason why multiculturality is a big fucking problem.
Culture is pretty much a way of life that grew among the people over a course of centuries. If there's a large enough group within society that follows a different culture - depending on how compatible these cultures are - it's a weak spot.
You can't just add thousands of people with contradicting traditions and ideologies and say "It'll be fine".
Yes, white people have trash too, but we know how to handle them, they were among us as long as our culture has exsisted, we're familiar with them. We take care of it.
But then you have other cutures that were introduced to Europe. They don't seem to give a shit about their trash, yet tend to get very upset when we point out the shit floating around into their pond. It's their way of protecting their little enclaves, nobody's scooping the shit out. Meanwhile, progressives like to point out that there's a beautiful lily in that pond, an unconfirmed sighting of a rare butterfly and during the right time of day it can smell quite enjoyable. Yet all we see are the turds floating around and while we haven't bothered counting them anymore, we're pretty sure there are more today than there were yesterday.
>>55684655
>You have grown up in more or less open societies with possibilities and acceptance towards all - men, women, homosexuals, different races. That is something you want to protect.
You are clearly new to /pol/. "White" people are tolerant towards homosexuals and other races? Sure.
>On the other hand you see enemies - the muslims, leftists, feminists
How you group feminists and Muslims is beyond me.
>cultures which are not compabtble with the ideas of openess, equality, liberty and acceptance of diversity
Openness, liberty, and equality are not European ideas and were never European ideas. No matter how hard historians try to bend everything positive in a Euro-centric fashion, no one who knows anything about history is going to believe that. Without the Mediterranean and its fostering of ideas and philosophy, all the Atlantic peoples (your "white" people) would still be living in caves.
>well integrated sandnigger
Do you even listen to yourself?
>>55697933
> Goldberg
>>55697933
Right see? You are choking on a whole jar of blue pills. You're just here because you heard it was the board for edgy fuckers who like war and killing and who have unreasonable hatred for others.
Fuck off.
>>55697908
Woah, ANON, are you trying to infer that without homogenous societal-values a society is doomed to fail because different cultures will inevitably reach irreconcilable differences? ? ? ?
That's racist.
But wait;
We need to give resources to Non-radical Muslims who can point out that the Koran is actually against what they are doing.
'Gentle' Islam needs to be spread around louder and wider than the radical stuff, investing in this would bring major rewards.
>>55698192
shouldve taken her head off
>>55698192
>that our family did not suit her special Muslim needs
Just WHERE does the entitlement of these goatfuckers come from?? I really have problems handling the rage i am feeling towards these cunts.
>>55698456
>schizophrenia: the post
Or r u avin a giggle m8?
>>55698360
The problem is that people that have a mindset like on /pol/ like to think its purely the doing of jews and SJW's. They dont even notice their own fellow countrymen who are sucsessful capitalists support the refugees coming in and funding the SJW's who meanwhile spend their lives to keep any form of nationalism supressed.
>>55696859
>you'll be called a racist
Correct. Shunned and all that shit.
>and put into jail.
I'm not sure. It requires "appel à la haine" to be technically illegal, iirc. Pretty murky definition.
But man, if you're going to jail as an islamophobe, you're so fuuuucked!
>>55697577
>the culture of truth, justice, and lawfulness
I'm going to call you bullshit on this one and call you idiot for thinking that these are European only. More so when we have a long history of lies, injustice and deceptive.
>of altruism, of individuality
These two clash with one and other
>>55698523
but the koran says no such thing
if you want to correct muslims you must convert them to karaite judaism or christianity
fedora tipping is fine too desu at least they just "fight with their minds"
but islam is fundamentally broken
>>55698567
>Just WHERE does the entitlement of these goatfuckers come from??
The same way people in social wellfare don't show gratitude towards their community. They're used to getting it.
>>55698467
The basic idea even a child can understand is to respect other people's beliefs/culture as long as it's not hurting anyone else in any way. I mean if someone else is doing something I don't do why should I disapprove if I'm not affected?
EU has been doing it wrong for a long time though. Basically telling everyone to be mindful of immigrant culture but not telling immigrants to be mindful of ours at all. I hear with the immigration this year Finland has at least been largely focusing on teaching immigrants basically "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" as the first thing. That's improvement at least.
>>55697095
>Also I consider the "US War on Terror" to have created the very conditions that put the Middle East into the state it is in now.
The background goes earlier than that, to your struggle against commies, and then further to the creation of Israel under British rule, and fuck, probably earlier than that, I don't know my ME colonialism well enough, but yeah, westerners (including Russians) certainly have a responsibility for the rise of radical islamism in the ME.
>>55698523
The problem is they cannot point out what IS is doing is wrong. IS is doing what the koran and hadiths have told muslims to do for more than a thousand years. You throwing around words like "non-radical" and "gentle" shows that you know nothing of islam. The fact that some muslims decide to IGNORE parts of their holy books (in order to function in a western society) does NOT make islam any less dangerous than it is.
>>55697410
>with no women or children
Seriously though. It's what 60+% men?
Even if it was peaceful, chill out on the dudes
>>55698812
Anti-racist associations are very powerful here. Have you heard about Dieudonné, an antisemitic humorist (nigger)? He is in real trouble because of LICRA the most important association against racism here, and some other associations that fight against antisemitism, because they invoked this "appel à la haine"
>>55699182
all (!) of that was orchestrated by a tightly knit group of european leaders however, not the european people who are now suffering for it
we are not responsible, they are
at the end of the fight against ISIS there must be a fight against the elite that guided them
>>55684655
A well integrated sandnigger can certainly be an asset. If the people we imported were highly educated and already had jobs arranged with Swedish companies, I'm sure they would be economically beneficial and easy to integrate (they would also be few).
That's very far from reality though. If we had some magical way of integrating all these people, I'd honestly still prefer that we didn't. I just like seeing people around me that look like myself, to feel that I am among my people.
>>55697576
Out of curiosity, what are your main categories?
>>55699390
>importing workforce
>in a time of unemployment
how is it an asset?
Are the French feeling like America after Pearl Harbor or 9/11? Are the French flooding enlistment centers, eager to get even with the pig fuckers?
>>55697577
>the culture of acceptance is a culture, and it is defining to europe, we've always been fascinated with the foreign world, our stories are filled with accounts of encounters with the other
So many of them are good too.
>>55698847
>These two clash with one and other
No, actually they aren't. I think altruism is deeply-seated in individualism. You're altruistic partly because you think others will be altruistic towards you.
Besides evenm if they were contradictory, they still could both be European values, as Europe is not a hivemind. Like freedom and equality can seem contradictory if you see them through the economico-liberal/socialist spectrum, but they're still both core French value.
>>55699411
>main categories
Main categories of what? My political beliefs?
>>55699503
The capitalists want a workforce that is more obedient, can work for cheaper, will take up shitty jobs(there are only a few locals who will willingly take up simple jobs with little chances of moving upwards, so they all flood to the colledges).
>>55698132
>>55698327
They do.
>>55684655
>Won't you agree too that a well integrated sandnigger in european society could prove to be an asset to the society and the white race too?
No?
>>55699966
Who, when, where?
>>55700000
This
>>55699737
Because by definition Alturism is
Altruism or selflessness is the principle or practice of concern for the welfare of others. It is a traditional virtue in many cultures and a core aspect of various religious traditions and secular worldviews, though the concept of "others" toward whom concern should be directed can vary among cultures and religions. Altruism or selflessness is the opposite of selfishness
While individualism
>Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that emphasizes the moral worth of the individual. Individualists promote the exercise of one's goals and desires and so value independence and self-reliance and advocate that interests of the individual should achieve precedence over the state or a social group
>they still could both be European values,
Why European, why not Middle eastern or Indian? After all they had civilisations long before Europe did.
>>55698778
Well yeah, as much as /pol/ think they're blue-pilled about social issues, they don't understand shit about macro-economics.
>>55699343
Dieudonnéé is a drama queen and an idiot. And he's never going to prison.
Putain de Breton, j'te jure.
>>55684655
>as a leftist kek i believe
The clock is ticking for you scum.
# نهنو الدولت
>>55699056
>The basic idea even a child can understand is to respect other people's beliefs/culture as long as it's not hurting anyone else in any way. I mean if someone else is doing something I don't do why should I disapprove if I'm not affected?
That's actually the most widely shared ethic in world history, nicknamed the "Golden Rule".
>>55700172
>why not middle eastern or european
both cultures of conformity and authority, in india in particular your worth is entirely defined by your caste, you are human filth and your life has no point
this is the opposite of individualism
>>55699056
Something a child cannot understand is the fact that differing values inevitably reach irreconcilable differences.
To be clear: I don't disagree on an intellectual level or a utopian scenario, but luckily I keep my views grounded in reality and facts. History and current events support my claims, because if they didn't then we wouldn't even be discussing this right now... what have you other than your feelings to purport your opinions?
>>55699056
"Some skinheads are beating up a homeless man but it doesn't affect me, so it's cool"
>>55684655
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-netanyahu-warns-of-grave-mistake-if-france-recognises-palestine-2014-11?IR=T
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/107516
>>55698531
Honestly she was SO disgusted by American culture that I am worried she will go to Syria for Isis training and come back to take MY head off
>>55699354
>all (!) of that was orchestrated by a tightly knit group of european leaders however, not the european people who are now suffering for it
>we are not responsible, they are
Well sure, but your Morrocan neighbour or some kid in Syria aren't responsible for the attacks in Paris either.
As I said earlier, it's hard to find people who are going to be considered innocent bystanders in this. I mean especially with democracy, even if we don't make the actual decisions, we sort of share part of the responsibility for the fuckheads we elect.
>at the end of the fight against ISIS there must be a fight against the elite that guided them
Sure. How? How do we make Europe not just the puppet of larger interest and a place where things happen in the interest of its people?
>>55700352
Not a idiot at all, and yeah he isn't going to prison bc he's famous and has money, otherwise he would have already got raped by his cellmates. And no, not even breton
>>55700534
>has no argument
>accuses the other of basing their opinion on feelings
>>55693327
>>55695119
yes, actual war refugees did stop in neighbouring countries
>>55699795
>Main categories of what? My political beliefs?
NO, you say leftist and right-wing are wrong categorizations, how do you categorize political beliefs?
All we need to do in the West is just cut the bennies and treat criminals as they are; no more limp-wristed ideaology. Child benefit is killing us.
>>55700091
Fuck if I know, french internet is too shit and only gives results about "muh gorillion".
I'm pretty sure illegal immigrants are deported, that's pretty much the concept of "illegal immigration".
>>55700254
>they don't understand shit about macro-economics.
I will definitely agree with you there, /pol/ isnt up there with economics, and I am going to tell you that I myself am not the best when it comes to economics either.
I'd say that I am pro state capitalism or limited socialism with good limitations on capitalists, especially foreign ones. I dont believe that allowing capitalism take care of itself is a good idea. On social issues I am comewhat contre-right and believe that nationalism is a perfectly fine stance that should not be taboo as it is today. People in general should keep to their own countries.
>>55700821
I use political compass, but I believe that it could be changed even more to point out all the small neuances even better, but it works much better than just dividing between the abstractions of "leftists" and "right wingers" plus its easy to understand.
>>55700761
the problem with the mass immigration is primarily demographic, as you well know the amount of native europeans are dwindling
the problem of the terror attacks and violence, is one of a complete lack of control over the immigration
and finally there is the problem of where the resources to care for the refugees is going to come from
if you want to only solve violence and terror the solution is tighter border control and better integration efforts, making sure you check who is coming in and from where, and making sure that their anti-european behaviour is not tolerated
if you want to solve the resource problem you have to cooperate across the EU and not let say germany or sweden take 90% of them, and don't give in to complaints about internet and TV since those aren't really essentials, if they have to live in camps then that is that
if you want to solve all three you must not allow them in to begin with
>>55701192
economics is a purely theoretical discipline that has little to do with reality
recently there was a scientific verification of one of the core tenets of modern economics and that claim did not agree with the results
economics is the psychoanalysis of the business world
>>55701173
Kek, you know what m8, I really hope this is true
>>55684655
Real immigrants from outside EU have to get a visa before coming here meaning you have to have a job secured prior to coming here or be to admitted to school, that sort of thing. Also the company has to submit a form or something stating that they tried to hire someone equally qualified from inside the EU and it's tough. That means that if you're an engineer or something like that you'll get here with no problem but you won't get here to be a waiter or something.
This is a pretty good system if you ask me, too bad it wasn't upheld by Merkel.
>>55689089
Yes, genetics pretty much make it whether you can understand what you're reading or not.
Hell you could know a whole fucking library's content and cite it off your head but your ability to think for yourself, find correlation and causation in different books makes the biggest difference.
>>55684655
>Sweden, Finland and French posters collectivelly aciting moronic and basing the values of "Muh Feefees" and criticizing communism and facism while trying to enforce assimilation on other people
Are you people fucking retarded
>>55700172
So did you just not read what I posted?
Altruism from others beneficiates you as an individual(ist). Therefore, convincing others to be altruist, and appear to others to be altruistic, is definitely a plus for an individual, wouldn't you say?
>Why European, why not Middle eastern or Indian? After all they had civilisations long before Europe did.
Oh sorry, yeah, I forgot to say that altruism and individualism exist before humans even existed, as programmed behaviour in animals.
>>55684655
>But as a leftist kek i believe that it's not the people, it's the culture.
Think outside of the box. Is it culture that create all those people, or is it simply the way modern society is now? I simply believe that how we live our lifes now, not struggling to survive, having enough money all the time to eat, have someone (the state) provide for everything we may need, is putting us on the edges. We are loosing our sensitivity, our connexion to the reality, our ability to cope with everything that may happen around us. Everything you may see is trapped behind a proxy. You can look at your TV screen and read "125 dead in Paris", but you'll probably focus on the number rather than the event.
And I believe that this thing is actually happening all around the world. People in the western world are starting to become more and more depressed about the society they live in, and they now lack empathy. They don't think they're sick, and look at anything that may upset them to wage war on that. That's how feminazism, SJWism...etc is created I believe. Bunch of people living their day to day life, and just disconnect from the reality by the filters of medias, the internet, and everything you can imagine.
And the worst thing is that this way of thinking is now coming to the shitholes. And because they were already not empathetic, they now are confinced that killing people is a pragmatic thing to do, with no implications whatsoever.
I'm probably not explaining this well, but that's how I feel about all the bullshit in society nowadays.
>>55700791
> schizophrenia the post: redux
What did I not make clear enough for you, you frothing schizo?
Time and time again HISTORY (not my feelings) has PROVEN that when different cultures mix then bloodshed is inevitable.
> the Christians in Rome
> Jews in Germany
> American natives and European settlers/conquerors
> sunnis v shiite
> Jews again in Egypt
> do I need to keep going at this point?
do I really need to cite articles you'll never actually read before you'll get your head out of your ass?
>>55699276
they left them to die because of irrelevance
>>55700765
>he isn't going to prison bc he's famous and has money,
That's the only reason he was threathened to go to prison to begin with. So schmo saying shit au café du coin isn't going to attract anything.
And yeah, he's an idiot, and a Breton.
>>55699670
Both Men and Women want their hands dirty on killing a millions of mudslimes
>>55701377
In what way is it purely theoretical? If I decide to suddely establish forced state wide socialism or let coorporations essentialy establish micro states within the country that they are fully responsible for it is far more than just a theory.
Economics changes a lot in the social sphere as well.
>>55701839
He speaks the truth concerning the jews, and he's too dark-skinned to be Breton
ITT: Damage Control
>>55701192
>I am going to tell you that I myself am not the best when it comes to economics either.
Oh neither am I. But I dabble.
>I'd say that I am pro state capitalism or limited socialism with good limitations on capitalists, especially foreign ones. I dont believe that allowing capitalism take care of itself is a good idea.
Yeah, but... isn't that some form of neoliberalism though? Isn't part of the neoliberalist idea to allow things in your country that aren't allowed in foreign countries trading with you?
Like, the WTO is much harsher on enforcing its laws on poor countries which have no choice but to conceid to participate properly in world trade, while western countries and especially China get preferential treatment. It's sort of a state-capitalism for the rich, which sort of does beneficiate westerners.
Eh, I'm rambling.
>On social issues I am comewhat contre-right and believe that nationalism is a perfectly fine stance that should not be taboo as it is today. People in general should keep to their own countries.
I agree that some degree of tribalism is beneficial,, however how small or large you want to do it is... interesting.
As a Swiss I want to believe in federal internationalism. I identify with my canton more than my country, I identify then as a European, and lots of other shit. We're somewhat getting there with international organizations, but they usually have little power besides the lobby of the strong.
Also I don't believe people should necessarily keep to their own country, some degree of brown qts is necessary.
>>55692442
>We need to educate and make the immigrants think like we do - not let them ghetto up and segregate.
Wave of migrants create ghettos.
>>55700000
quints dont lie
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of islam, and the reality of demographic shift. Unless there is a radical hyper-racist ethnic cleansing of europe, the ONLY future for europe is one of complete replacement by a non-european muslims.
Islam is actually a cancer and if you can't see that you have already lost.
>>55701940
because as I say the theories don't agree with how the system actually operates
>>55701220
I can agree with that.
There can be lots of people from foreign countries in some places, it just has to be "reasonable" (it's hard to determine what that is exactly), to a point where ghettoisation is not a problem and integration is handled properly. However there's such a thing as too many people at the same time, and in the wrong places. It renders integration impossible.
>>55701377
I don't think that's what we we're dicsussing. Economics are terrible at prediction, which make them a bad science, but they're nonetheless interesting observations. The other thing is, many leaders and lobbyists treat economics as a hard science, and it then has a predictive vale on what those people will do to maximize their interests and/or what they think are the interests of others (if you think politicians are altruistic, which I'm sure some are).
>>55702093
He's a parrot. And a Breton.
>>55700615
Learn to read you fucking idiot. I never claimed to approve only when I myself am not affected.
>as long as it's not hurting anyone else in any way
>>55703568
He's a NIGGER
>>55702594
>Yeah, but... isn't that some form of neoliberalism though?
Perhaps if it is being done on a global scale with a few major players setting the rules for everyone else. What I am promoting is what I personally see best for my own nation. I have good belief we are nowhere near the levels of (relative) sucess as we had during the interwar phase because of the liberal economics - we dont produce anything and we dont invent anything, there are dozens of foreign investors(of whom a majority come from Sweden btw) who employ a lot of the people. The excess wealth gained by our people working for them here and now is flowing out to the countries of investors. the problem is that we lived under either state capitalism or state socialism for a really long time (Ulmanis dictatorship+USSR) for so long that we are not really well wersed in liberal economics, so we dont fund as many companies and so on, so I see state capitalism as a much better alternative.
>As a Swiss I want to believe in federal internationalism. I identify with my canton more than my country, I identify then as a European, and lots of other shit.
See this is something I never understood myself - regionalism. Sure you might have some quirks or differences, but I would put the nation over my region. While federal internationalism might sound nice and romantic on paper it would eventually lead to the biggest "tribe" or region to dominate the surrounding ones and eventually start to homogenise everyone else.
>Also I don't believe people should necessarily keep to their own country, some degree of brown qts is necessary.
I dont completely dismiss the ability of people to migrate, but it must be done on a resonable scale so they can be fully integrated. I dont think that other races cant be beautiful either, but I would never have any serious relationship with anyone from a different race. I couldnt handle the awkward kids.
>>55703786
Many people are both, surprisingly. I can't find his name but the first black metropolitan French in the National Assembly was a dark as coal Breton.
>>55703661
By the time you realize this culture wants to dominate you, it will be too late and there will be nothing you can do but watch.
>>55684655
What happened to the terrorists btw?
Not the one that blew up.
>>55704014
And this is the actual problem. It's almost normal to have niggers in Bretagne
>>55701732
Never thought I'd have a reason to use this but then this guy shit up the place
Pic related
>>55704599
Apparently they were seen somewhere in the 78
>>55704906
They're still alive? Cool.
>>55703927
Whether the investors are your countrymen or not matters, but to an extent. While investors are needed to create capital, the value of what is produced (even in tertiary industries) is always in the hand of the workers, what makes a country make money for someone is skilled and/or diligent workers.
Now part of the problem, as highlighted here >>55700254, is that the share of the money produced that is actually gained by workers has been steadilly diminishing. And that's also the case in countries like China btw, despite their famed growing middle class (~33% of GDP in wages iirc).
While your countrymen investors are somewhat more likely to want your country to be okay, I'm not sure that's their top priority.
>so we dont fund as many companies and so on, so I see state capitalism as a much better alternative.
Funding companies is state capitalism, of sorts. Switzerland does it this way: low taxes on large corporations, large funding of public education coupled with corporation-state cooperation on research, very healthy and helpful start-up environment (funding companies, pretty much). That's how we got out of being just bankers. Of course not everybody can do that.
>See this is something I never understood myself - regionalism. Sure you might have some quirks or differences, but I would put the nation over my region.
Well it's just. The Swiss people are and feel quite different 50km from one another, and those are sort of our national identities. Originally Switzerland is partly an alliance of convenience between different regions to resist more powerful neighbours.
>While federal internationalism might sound nice and romantic on paper it would eventually lead to the biggest "tribe" or region to dominate the surrounding ones and eventually start to homogenise everyone else.
Eh it depends how the institutions work. But most likely, yeah, at least to a point.
Kids can be awkward anyway.
>>55704756
I mean if they're good negros, what's the problem?
You seem to like Dieudonné, and the other guy was a responsible enough Afro-French gentleman to get elected in one of the whitest regions of France.
>>55705357
The problem is that good negros are rare, and we have to bear 1000 apes to get a good nigger, that's just not fair. Would be better if they all stayed in their jungle. France isn't Niggerland
>>55692442
>The only response Europe and France can have to these attacks is to continue to not hate people based on their religion, homeland or race. We need to educate and make the immigrants think like we do - not let them ghetto up and segregate. That's what really makes for example the swedish model of immigration so shitty. They don't want to accept the fact that their culture truly is the way the right wing nutjobs say: superior to the middle-eastern retardness. But it is not so with people. There are shitty white people and shitty brown people, and i think that proves that this is not fundamentally about race and genetics.
We should goad "normal" muslims to publicly denounce muslim terrorism and "extremist" views.
>>55705707
I guess. I haven't frequented to many bad negroes myself, I've never lived in a cité or anything like that.
Honestly arabs of the northern-african conviction seem to be much more problematic in France.
>>55697908
The problem is that people just won't accept being cast aside like apples. It's like the rest of the apples wanted to be picked, in spite of the poisoned one.
>>55706043
Very well put.
>>55698435
OP here.
#1: I'm not new to pol. Yeah this board isn't friendly to those groups, but european nations and societies as whole are, and /pol/ defends those societies. I'm trying to pinpoint that acceptance is what makes west west.
#2: Those groups I listed are traditional ideologies /pol/ hates. I didn't imply they have something in common.
#3: They aren't TRADITIONALLY. Today, they very much are the values the mainstream european is ready to stand for. And you know that. History can provide insight to cultures, but ancient societies are not the context for modern problems and attitudes. Mixing them seems... unsound. Modern times require modern contexts.
#4: As I said, I'm not new to the board. That means I use the terminology the board uses. Nigger is not a black person, faggot is not a homosexual, and sandnigger does not imply hatred on this board. They are just terms this board uses. If that was not your point, then I missed it.
>>55705211
>While your countrymen investors are somewhat more likely to want your country to be okay, I'm not sure that's their top priority.
I agree, but the main benefit is that the excess wealth they take as income doesent flow out of the country and stays in it and is more likely to be reused by them in it which is good for everyone to some extent.
>Well it's just. The Swiss people are and feel quite different 50km from one another, and those are sort of our national identities.
Yes, but thats the specific of Switzerland, there are few nations like it.
Anyway, it was interesting chatting you you Swisslad. I certainly didnt expect a reasonable conversation with differing opinions on /pol/.
>>55704319
Not him, but he does imply active struggle to remove cultures and ideologies which do not allow the coexistance of all people.
In my opinion people can coexist, we've done so many times during our history. Contradiction ideologies on the other hand can not. That was shown at least in WWII.
Hence we should struggle for ideologies and acceptance, not coexistance of ideologies. That's what I have been saying through the entire thread: Let the people be and do not hate them, because it does no good to anybody. But do not allow vicious ideologies to exist - engage in open discussion.
>>55701732
You are not wrong, we get easily disconnected from reality.
I do not agree with you in thinking that everything is a one "modern society". We have different viewpoints depending on our location and peers - that's culture forming and changing in microscale. I can never fathom the tragedy of the people truly involved in the terrorist acts, but i believe i'm still entitled to an opinion? And not all opinions are equal, but i'm trying my hardest to make my view understandable and negotiable. That should add some value to my opinion, does it not?
I suppose we think somewhat alike: it is required not to just accept one discource and stick with it, because that worsens your neutrality. One needs to have an open mind.
And that's how we end up with my thesis: ideologies are not equal, cultures are not equal, but i think people can be. We should try to find the best way of doing things and thinking without needless and unstrategic hatred towards skincolours or religions per se.
I hope that made any sense to you
>>55707187
>the main benefit is that the excess wealth they take as income doesent flow out of the country and stays in it
What tells you they're spending it in Latvia?
>more likely to be reused by them in it which is good for everyone to some extent.
Fun fact: extremely rich people will not reinject most of their money in society.
>[...]
>Second, as Hanauer observes, America's richest entrepreneurs, investors, and companies now have so much money that they can't possibly spend it all. So instead of getting pumped back into the economy, thus creating revenue and wages, this cash just remains in investment accounts.
>Hanauer explains why.
>Hanauer takes home more than $10 million a year of income. On this income, he says, he pays an 11% tax rate. (Presumably, most of the income is dividends and long-term capital gains, which carry a tax rate of about 20%. And then he probably has some tax shelters that knock the rate down the rest of the way).
>With the more than $9 million a year Hanauer keeps, he buys lots of stuff. But, importantly, he doesn't buy as much stuff as would be bought if his $9 million were instead earned by 9,000 Americans each taking home an extra $1,000 a year.
>Why not?
>Because, despite Hanauer's impressive lifestyle — his family owns a plane — most of the $9+ million just goes straight into the bank (where it either sits and earns interest or gets invested in companies that ultimately need strong demand to sell products and create jobs). For a specific example, Hanauer points out that his family owns 3 cars, not the 3,000 cars that might be bought if his $9+ million were taken home by a few thousand families.
>[...]
>Hanauer estimates that, if most American families were taking home the same share of the national income that they were taking home 30 years ago, every family would have another $10,000 of disposable income to spend.
http://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-create-jobs-2013-11?IR=T
I'm a board immigrant for the habbenings.
>>55707219
>ideologies
>ideologies
>ideologies
>ideologies
>ideologies
>>55684655
I literally just want Hitler at this point, I don't want a society so open that it lets people destroy it.
>>55708025
>What tells you they're spending it in Latvia?
Nothing, but they're more liekly to, thats a given. They could build or renovate a house which will be a long lasting thing from which others could also benefit.
>Fun fact: extremely rich people will not reinject most of their money in society.
>http://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-create-jobs-2013-11?IR=T
That seems really interesting, will read later.
>I'm a board immigrant for the habbenings.
Same here
Pic unrelated.
>>55707219
How are you going to sort out which Muslims are going to cause problems with the peaceful ones? Militant islamists are already proving to be very adept at asymmetric warfare.
>>55708703
They have all the incentives to buy somewhere else.
>Same here
Heh, where u from?
/co/ and /vg/ here.
>>55709028
Mostly /his/ and some /int/, but I havent been on 4chan as a whole a lot lately. I used to use /vg/ a lot some months ago when I still wanted to game, but now I dont really feel like it anymore, at least until I build my new rig + get a job(just finished a professional degree). The laptop I have dosent cut it for me anymore I feel.
>>55706507
What's this from? I googled nutrition facts vs nutrition facts but didn't get the right website.
>>55684655
hello newfag, lurk more before making a complete idiot out of yourself
refugees & softness, lol
>>55708205
I apologise for repeating myself. I'm just trying to emphasize the point.
>>55709540
I haven't tried /his/, I take it it's good?
I don't rellay play games with high requirements, my PC a shit.
I used to /int/ years ago. I couldn't really take it anymore, same reason I never got into /pol/ outside of happenings. I sometimes go in the /fr/ thread still, but it's just a circlejerk of fags.
>>55709685
Did you read the thread? Shitposting isn't exactly what we're trying to do here. I tried to make it clear that these ideas are controversial on this board. And I've tried my best at open discussion.
>>55684655
>Won't you agree too that a well integrated sandnigger in european society could prove to be an asset to the society and the white race too?
You mean a Christian one?
Meanwhile, in Germany:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/09/germany-lower-educational-standards-benefit-migrants/
>>55684655
This is the aftermatch You faggots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OxKsMKHwmE
>>55710084
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>>55709627
I don't know. I googled something once because I was tired of the "comparing apples to oranges" argument, not sure what. Can't find it now.
>>55684655
>The aftermatch
>>55708782
I'm quite sure it is impossible to "win" against terrorism. Terrorism ends when there's no need for it anymore. Ireland should be enough proof?
So my suggestion is kinda unheard on this board, and a very "leftist" one: we can't sort out the shitty ones out of the immigrant population, so we just have to try to integrate them all. Kinda like we already do in northern europe with poor people and homeless. Just give them homes and rehabilitate and they stop being shitty junkies stealing and mugging. I think that applies to muslims too, if we can make them accept our ideas of an ideal society.
I don't think that's impossible, but you might disagree. I'd like to know why though.
>>55705932
That's true, but I personally hate both of them
>>55709730
I was merely memeing, and so on and so on.
https://youtu.be/Pk8ibrfXvpQ
TOP FUCKING KEK.
Apparently one of the attackers was not only French, he also was known by the police.
>>55684928
This isn't a real discussion. You are a fucking kike trying to subdue the whites in france. If a race war is needed it is needed.
However keep prolonging this shit the longer you do the bigger the explosion. You have no idea how volatile white people are right now. Eventually its going to hit a tipping point that is so fucking bad beyond "race war" into complete genocide tier. That might take a long ass time but it will come.
>>55710039
My local kebab dude is not christian and he's cool - this means muslims are able to be cool if they just learn to stop being shitty.
A kind of stupid argument, I know, but i think it still applies. If some can do it, most of them can do it and integrate - regardless of religion. They just need to cast aside their ideas about sharia society because that is shit. I think the kebab dude has done so. Haven't asked him though.
>>55710219
Thanks anyway
