Source: http://www.thelocal.se/20160304/let-men-have-legal-abortions
>Men should have the same right as women to decide not be parents, according to a controversial new proposal from the Liberal Party’s youth wing in western Sweden (LUF Väst).
>Men who don’t want to become fathers should be permitted to have a “legal abortion” up to the 18th week of a woman’s pregnancy, say the young liberals. The cut-off date coincides with the last week in which a woman can terminate a pregnancy in Sweden. “This means a man would renounce the duties and rights of parenthood,” LUF Väst chairman Marcus Nilsen told The Local.
>By signing up for a “legal abortion” then, a man would not have to pay maintenance for his child, but neither would he have any right to meet the child. The group believes “legal abortion” for men would promote equality between the sexes in the early stages of a pregnancy, giving men a chance to opt out. Women would also benefit if they knew from the get-go whether a man was willing to commit to parenthood, the young liberals say.
>Asked how a mother would explain to a child later in life what had happened to its father, Nilsen said: "This situation already exists, with single women who choose to inseminate or simply don’t know who the father is.”He added: “We wouldn’t want to make this something that was subject to secrecy. A mother could say: ‘I consider this man to be your father, but legally he is not’.”
>Some social media users have welcomed the plan but many have ridiculed it and Nilsen said the group had received a flurry of threats. “One man wrote on Facebook that all our members should be put against a wall and shot.” Johanna Frändén, a popular sports writer, was a lot more welcoming. “I think I’m of the view that this is actually quite sensible,” she wrote on Twitter.
1/2
>pic unrelated
>>66347706
>Much of the criticism accused the young Liberals of misogyny, something Nilsen was quick to reject. “This motion was actually put forward at our annual meeting by a group of girls,” he said. Nilsen added that the group was unlikely to take the plan any further.
>“It’s something we thought was worthy of debate but the reactions have been overwhelmingly conservative, with a lot of people viewing it as an attack on the nuclear family. We have other issues we're prioritizing such as housing and employment.”
>The idea comes on the heels of two proposals last month that got tongues wagging: The young Liberals’ Stockholm branch said it wanted to legalize sibling incest for over-15s and to permit “consensual” necrophilia in cases where the deceased had written post-life sex requests into a will.
>A senior member of the mother party, Carl B. Hamilton, called the youngsters idiots and wondered if “sex with hippos” would be next on the agenda.
Abhorrent as I find it when men don't provide adequate care for their children, if women are allowed to abort then men should be able to as well. It'll be funny to see SJWs trying to argue against the same arguments they've always made, such as
>they should be able to have a child when they're ready, not before
>abortion isn't immoral
>it's a human right!
>100% agency over your own body
>>66348529
The liberals are truly tearing themselves apart...
>>66347880
>removing male entrapment and thus providers for the protected class of women.
Fat chance, though if they believe in equality in the male/female relationship dynamic its a very real conversation that should be had.
>>66348529
>100% agency over your own body
You realise this is a valid argument against men being able to decide on abortions?
child support = modern slavery
>>66347706
>>66347880
Makes sense to me. If she can choose whether or not to keep the baby, I should be able to choose whether or not to keep the baby. That's equality.
>>66349707
Not really. Being forced to work to provide for a child you didn't want would violate your agency over your own body too.
>>66347706
Sounds like a good thing for me.
we have this in America, it's called not signing the birth certificate
I see nothing wrong with this
>>66347706
This is it, this is the turning point, this will be remembered as the day when feminism died
>>66347706
SWEDEN YES!
THE EUROPEAN MAN MUST DIE
ACTIVATE ORDER 66
KILL ALL THE CHILDREN
>>66347706
I think this is totally reasonable.
Women love yelling MY BODY MY CHOICE
Well you know what? It's my fucking WALLET, so it should be my choice as well.
If she wants to have the baby without me, fine, go ahead. But I shouldn't be obligated to pay child support for a child I do not want.
Congrats Sven, you finally got one
>>66347706
about time but cutoff date should be 12 weeks so the mother has a month to decide if she goes ahead with the pregnancy
and men should be notified of the pregnancy independently by the gynecologist that confirms it. If they are not notified in the first 10 weeks they are not legally obliged to father the kid
>>66347880
>A senior member of the mother party, Carl B. Hamilton, called the youngsters idiots and wondered if “sex with hippos” would be next on the agenda.
dont give me any ideas
Oh hey. I held a speech about this very subject to my class a while back.
They were shocked when I told them male rape victims had to pay child support. I hope I redpilled a few.
>>66347706
I had my girlfriend get an abortion. Obviously, ex girlfriend now. I definitely regret it. Thats why i'm here rather than doing anything productive. Totally broke me. Don't do it. Its not worth it.
>>66347706
There was a case like this in the US 10 years ago.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Dubay_child_support_case
Long story short...the mother and father weren't in a serious relationship, they both knew the risks of behavior, she claimed to be on birth control, and ended up pregnant anyway. The judge threw the case out because of an unwillingness to throw out decades of family law. It was an interesting case though.
>>66350426
Has there ever been a male rape victim with a rape kid?
Opt-out is a dumb idea. A woman could keep it secret from you until the 18 month threshold if she wanted, by claiming it's from somebody else, by avoidance or even by morbid obesity.
The correct approach is to make parenthood opt-in (by signature). This also wouldn't be a romance killer for women the way prenups are. (to the contrary, they love binding commitments)
pardon, 18 week threshold ^
>>66347706
actual equality from sweden what the fuck
or maybe this is just to help benefit the niggers and mudscum...
>>66349772
Why should other tax payers have to pay for your bastard children?
Either the father pays, or eveyone pays through welfare for single mothers. Providing for bastard children sho7ld start with the father, not everyone else who is responsible enough to only have & raise children in a marriage & family.
>>66349707
thats not what the green text says. it says it gives the fathers a right to "opt out" which just means not paying child support. not actually aborting the fetus
>>66350640
Happened in South Africa. Bitches gangrape a dude who can't admit that it was rape without losing his man card (culture and shit), then 9 months later force him to pay child support by the courts because he didn't report it.
>>66349707
Read the OP again. It's not a literal abortion, its an abortion in the sense that men wash their hands of the child and are freed from the responsibility of paying child support and so on.
>>66349927
You dont decide if she keeps the baby. She does. You just decide whether you want to pay allimony and raise the child or not.
>One man wrote on Facebook that all our members should be put against a wall and shot.
>unhappy with this
>perfectly happy with importing half of the middle east
Sweden everyone
>>66351587
This
>>66350640
didn't boris becker have to pay child support after he was given a blow job in a restaurant and the female then proceeded to insert his sperm in her vagina?
>>66351341
How often?
>>66347706
>.se
>>66351546
>>You dont decide if she keeps the baby. She does. You just decide whether you want to pay allimony and raise the child or not.
I understand the article. I'm saying that by opting out of raising it, I am no longer responsible for raising it. I'm not keeping it.
>>66349707
Nice reading comprehension bongo
>>66351587
RARE
A
R
E
HI NEW ZEALAND HOW ARE YOU
>Fuck all the women you want
>Bust in all of them never wear a condom
>Never even have to see the kid let alone pay for him
>You are now capable of spreading your genetics far and wide with no ties
Why is /pol/ against this?
>>66350628
>Dubay’s claim that a man’s right to disclaim fatherhood would be analogous to a woman’s right to abortion rests upon a false analogy. In the case of a father seeking to opt out of fatherhood and thereby avoid child support obligations, the child is already in existence and the state therefore has an important interest in providing for his or her support
Fuck that, the baby was not yet born when he started refusing. Besides, she lied.
>>66352017
>Bust in all of them never wear a condom
I doubt many women would go ahead with this if you can opt out of the pregnancy
>>66352017
We're not against this at all!
See:
>>66350360
>>66350356
>>66350140
>>66350023
>>66349927
>>66349772
>>66347706
Sweden did something fucking right for once in its miserable history?
This is fucking glorious
>>66352152
Exactly. She wanted to trap him in a relationship and she failed. It sucks for her and even more for her kid.
>>66348945
But these are actual liberals and not American liberals. They're in the right wing block and lefties hate them. Liberals are for individual rights and socialists are for governmental control.
>>66352405
She did trap him, he has to pay.
>>66352196
there will be no more
>Oh baby yeah dont worry cum inside of me Im on the pill
now we can turn the tables
>Yeah dont worry girl Ill bust inside you its alright Ive had a vasectomy .
>>66352382
Imagine the lefty butthurt...
>tfw you see the endless communist tears
>tfw Sweden might become a new white homeland after SD take over and run the immigrant scum out of town
feels good man
>>66352615
If I found myself in that guy's unfortunate circumstances I'd live with her and my kid. I'd see if I could make a life with her. I wouldn't marry her though. I'd take my time before that happened, years. There's no point in paying alimony and child support. But since we had a kid together I'd try to make it work.
>>66349707
retard. you literally read one sentence and jumped to the replies.
>>66347706
Saw a facebook debate about this in Danish.
All the women were mad as fuck saying men should be responsible and not have unprotected sex if they weren't ready to face the consequence of having a child.
Basically they said keep it in your pants, but never understood why this doesn't go for women kek
Basically this will take away their ability to slut around a bit.
THIS IS GLORIOUS BECAUSE NOW WOMAN WILL NEED TO TAKE TO PILL OTHERWISE THEY WILL GET FUCKED BY THE LAW
>>66347706
So women should only tell men after the 18 week cut off
>>66352980
Care to share it anon with translations? I need to see this for myself...
>>66348529
you underestimate the power of the progressives to do mental gymnastics so monstrous that even satan himself would shudder. they will find a way to make abortions women only and you will be bewildered when they do.
>>66352980
I don't get why women should have to keep their shit in the pants, or use protection. They're even in a better position since they can say "yeah I'm on the pill" and don't be, but male protection is always visible. You lie about having a condom on when you don't, unless she retarded out of her mind.
>>66352980
Or their ability to "catch" a man by getting pregnant.
>>66353125
they can ask you to wear a condom
>>66353244
>should
I mean SHOULDN'T have to keep their shit in the pants, Jesus.
>>66352905
Cuck.
>>66352416
Isn;t this the same group that was pushing for paedophile rights last week?
>>66353298
i don't have problems with this
anyway this will never will be approved because it goes against our feminist society
>>66352905
IF she lets you, she has money, moral and social highground over you. The article doesn't talk about the aftermath, but he might had his life ruined.
>>66353178
and the man wouldn't be legally liable for the kid
>>66351957
>New Zealand
>rare
What the fuck are you on about cunt.
>>66353178
How fat do you get by 18w? Unless you are horribly fat from the start I doubt you can hide a belly for over 4 months.
Sydney lawyer Robert Benjamin mentions a case about 20 years ago where he represented a man who was stunned to discover his girlfriend was pregnant despite the fact that he'd been using condoms. Witnesses gave evidence that the woman had boasted she had removed the used condoms from the bin where he had deposited them and used the contents.
http://www.fact.on.ca/news/news0102/sm010217.htm
Men have no reproductive rights, abortions for men or opting out of fatherhood especially when a child was conceived by deception is a step in the right direction.
>>66353427
Nah, incest and necrophilia. For necrophilia they argue that it should only be allowed if consent is given in their testament.
>>66347706
Sweden: after this happens you do realize all that can happen next is communism.
>>66347706
I believe men should be able to "abort" all responsibilities over a child as long as it's before the kid is born and a reasonable amount of time (and money, if needed) is given for the mother to abort.
>>66353185
kikebook dot com slash danskkvindesamfund/posts/1163765100322990
the posts are in Danish though
>>66353244
>>66353268
How many times a year does a woman get pregnant while she "claims to be on the pill" but it somehow magically failed and she's keeping the kid?
>>66351957
Swede, don't fucking patronize our colony, what did your country ever achieve? NZ is more glorious in 180 years, at the edge of the Earth than Sweden has been in 2000 years.
Your country has proven to be at the first country lost to the East in this eternal stuggle to preserve the white race.
So soon , you will be
R A R E
A
R
E
NZ will be
E
A
R
>>66347706
>Sweden
>having equility for a change
I don't even
110% for this and want it here pronto.
This is a solid idea. But I highly doubt feminazis would let this happen.
>>66351957
>new zealand
>rare
>>66353927
Honestly it would encourage mothers to think sensibly about their actions. But socialist states already foster single parents, so the family unit is fucked regardless.
Literally only going to happen when Hell freezes over.
>>66351738
At least was threatened with it (rusian mafia)
Absolutely no one can get mad at this. A woman can chose to have an abortion, then so should men, at least juridically.
Funny thing is it was created and is being pushed by liberal women because muh feminism without socialism slogan the liberals have.
>>66350421
>Don't give me any ideas
Sex with hippos is already legal in the US. All you need to do is go down to the local Wal-Mart
>>66354038
the possibility of pregnancy happening while on the pill is almost impossible. When it happens it means foul play by the woman
>source: gf is a doctor
>>66354729
>When it happens it means foul play by the woman
No shit hermano, but as she can just keep it then the boyfriend is forced to 18 years of payment when he they'd never agreed on getting a kid in the first place
lol
>>66353854
lol
>>66354722
Australia coming through with the banter!
my sides
>>66354424
Yeah, because men are the only people solely responsible for the family unit. Mothers have always & will always dish all responsibility away from themselves and onto the father (regardless of their presence). The blame is never their own.
If the state allowed this proposal that would cause a societal breakdown. Because from then on, mothers would blame the state. And the state would become a literal target for every single problem in society. There'd be a rebellion because of all the hatred leveled at the government (not directly because they enacted the law we're talking about).
>>66354909
I don't want to piss on anyone's parade but this is, as said, the youth wing and those are known to be more radical than the mother parties. The actual party have dismissed these things as nonsense.
>>66353854
That is not better at all. I agreed with you 100% until just now, and since the slippery slope fallacy has been proven right time and time again you can't expect anyone to take that seriously.
>>66347880
>>A senior member of the mother party, Carl B. Hamilton, called the youngsters idiots and wondered if “sex with hippos” would be next on the agenda
Yes, it's not as if these marxists were fostered by their party, at all.
>>66351160
>17:58:13
This is why you cut government support at the same time
>>66354886
a friend's gf got 'magically' pregnant while on the pill and then didn't want to abort. He's from a rich family. She ended up aborting and I had to pretend I believed her while she was telling me she didn't know how she got pregnant while taking the pill lel
Turns out they are having a baby now, 10 years later
>>66355259
Agreed with me what? That was what the liberal youth wing was talking about last week, not pedophilia. I made no comments on something being good or bad or better or worse.
Or was this a misquote?
>>66354729
Pharmacist here. That's not necessarily true. There are a lot of drugs that decrease the efficacy of birth control. Hell, including tobacco. And there's also the fact that it takes like a week for birth control's effect to actually kick in if you're just starting it.
A lot of the drugs that can fuck up birth control are psych drugs, by the way. So the bitch could just be cray-cray or it could be her meds
Just saying
>>66347706
I can get behind this.
>>66355541
It must be fucking weird if that kid finds out growing up that mommy and daddy were originally going to have another kid but they killed it.
>>66347706
In a country where abortion is legal, that makes sense.
If a woman can kill her child because "its her body", why should men have any duty about it?
Even though some people are flipping their shit on this, at least someone is having a conversation on sorting out these areas of the law.
The current legal structure is almost entirely on the side of the female. Even though biologically her body does something different, it did take both parties to end up in this situation.
Whenever two people have a disagreement, there is generally a means for mediation to sort the matter out. In the case of a pregnancy where one party wants it and the other doesn't, the decision is entirely with the female.
Flip the tables, if the female wanted an abortion and the husband wanted to keep it, would he be able to get the child and have her pay child support?
>>66355415
Yes.
>>66356067
Yes.
>>66356225
I said husband, should have just said male.
>>66355924
they aborted a cluster of cells during the second month of pregnancy, they didn't kill a kid
>>66356225
>Flip the tables
But anon... Women & men are equal. Of course the woman would have to accept it & pay child support... Duh...
>>66355415
exactly, if women have kids they can't afford despite being able to abort them, the kids should be taken away from them and adopted if they decide to have to baby anyways.
>>66356497
technically every human being is just a cluster of cells.
Your argument is retarded
>>66356497
Splitting hairs mate. I'm pro abortion up until the moment the baby has it's first breast of air & I still call it killing.
It's like killing an ant though. Insignificant. Worthless.
Unless its future is valued.
>>66356722
I know imagine the outrage if the custody was given to the dad and then the wife was stuck paying alimony yet the opposite happens and its just the norm. It makes me sick
>>66356921
>breath of air
Great mistake though.
>>66356921
>I'm pro abortion up until the moment the baby has it's first breast of air
Why not kill babies too?
I mean, what's the differences? Their notion of existence is shit
Seems perfectly fair to me
And isn't fairness and equality what SJW and feminism is all about? :^)
>>66353854
Oh, so thats ok then.
>>66350356
In this situation, who didn't check the condom or put it on? Or did she steal your sperm while you were sleeping
>>66357041
Why stop at babies anon
this would actually be a fair solution.
the women still has the decision wether the child lives or dies. so the fact, that is is her body and she has to carry out the child is taken care of.
so basically men would get an option to opt out of resposibility like women already have, but have no say in wether the child lives or dies.
women would still have more power but thats fair since they have to be pregnant and give birth.
>>66356911
no it's not, jungle boy. If they were killing a kid they would be considered criminals by law
>>66356921
>I still call it killing
nobody gives a fuck about what you call things. What matters is what the law and doctors think it is
>>66357570
Then why is killing a pregnant woman double homicide?
>>66352196
>girls (people in general) have functioning common sense during intercourse
You some kinda virgin or autist?
>>66347706
thats fine and dandy and all but what if the man wants the child but the woman doesn't, in a normal situation outside of rape or abuse?
what legal ramifications protect the father or punish the mother in that situation? Shouldn't she have to pay if she chooses to abort against a willing father?
>>66357672
not here
but, why is then an abortion not considered an homicide?
>>66347706
Sweden has become so cucked that it's now shouting 'muh matriarchy' instead of 'muh patriarchy'.
God help us all.
>>66357812
Your point? are people still not responsible for their actions?
>>66357812
what kind of zoo animals do you fuck that can't even control themselves and ask you to use a condom or not cum inside? seriously lel
>>66357944
I think it is but at least your laws aren't contradictory like ours
>>66357041
The brain becomes much more valuable when it gets its first large dose of oxygen, because it starts experiencing things like you & me, it's retarded at first, yes. But it's guaranteed to be thinking & taking in information, learning to recognise faces smells.
It's death would be like extinguishing a candle. While abortion is like throwing an unlit candle in a bin.
>>66347706
>sweden actually doing something for men
shit son what
>>66357570
lol go run to your legal definitions, you child.
>And I don't mean child in the legal sense
>>66358367
They ain't doing shit. At most they'll protect arab men because they're non-white.
>>66358296
>it's retarded at first
>insinuating nothing of value is lost
So I see you support eugenics then
>>66347706
>group says they want to legalise incest and necrophilia
>suddenly start saying they want opt out abortions for men literally a week later
can no one but me see what this is?, this is Sweden putting the idea of "male abortions" on the same level as fucking necrophilia being legalised, this isn't designed to help it's designed to make it impossible to ever talk about
>>66358151
Women.
>>66349707
And an argument against all forms of child support.
>>66347706
i completely support this shit
i mean, godspeed sweden
>inb4 all nigglets without fathers in sweden
>>66359315
>inb4 all nigglets without fathers
If this were to pass, Sweden would have become a dindu's paradise. As much as I support this, I just think this could lead to more immigration in Sweden.
>>66358633
I do & I don't.
I believe parents should have full power to murder their vegetable baby. But I don't have any faith in the state to carry out or foster eugenics programs in a reasonable fashion.
>insinuating
I'm not sure what you think I'm insinuating. I value an adult over a teen, a teen over a child, a child over a toddler, a toddler over a baby and a baby over an unborn. Because I believe their sophistication of consciousness is the basis for their value. And there's other shit too, but that's how I rank them agewise.
>>66358754
I doubt you have fucked many if you think they simply 'lose control'
Hmmm... In France you can renounce your rights on any child up to 5 years and therefore don't pay child support
>>66358616
>m-muh opinion is more important what the law and doctors say
I'm sure you'll go far thinking like that
>>66359705
>dicklet detected
>>66347706
>Men should have the same right as women to decide not be parents,
If a woman gets pregnant they shouldn't have the right either. Having "male abortions" would only further dissolve the American family.
Like most equality ideas, this would only work in an intelligent, homogeneous society.
For every case of a woman lying about birth control or cheating and using him for money, there will be twice as many thick as shit teens who are too scared to step up and blacks and arabs that fuck white chicks on the side abusing the system.
>>66358682
Nice catch. They're more likely to fulfill the necrophilia / incest shit before the male legal abortion thing.
>>66359562
Yes. You're right to mention how it could result in problems down the line with immigrants. But should that really a reason to go against a fair policy?
>>66359959
I'm sure you'll go far not thinking for yourself & only ever using definitions within dictionaries & law dictionaries, defined by men like me. Maybe you can get a job as a teacher? Just tell the kids to read the books and not question anything.
That's the least of the insane policies LUF has suggested.
They should actually just have a law that says that a physical abortion is required if the man desires it. Equality, mate.
Mind you, LUF is just there to shift the overton window towards the insane.
>>66347706
This saves the swedish people. Overtime you fuck, don't pull out then get a legal abortion and make the women take care of the children.
>>66360180
This isn't in America
