How can you not support this?
And I used to be a libertarian red piller back in the 90s, I was up on Charles P Murray while most of you were watching Looney tunes and shitting in your pants.
Read up on Adam Smith and Webster Tarpley. Take the real red pill....fucking reactionary nimwits. God....
>>55778336
Tax the top class 90% and middle class 60%
YES BERNIE CAN
>>55778336
Because I'm still young enough to actually care about my future, grandpa
>>55778336
College is useless if your raising people to be idiots until then.
Money down the drain unless the education system works. And those who are smarter than it who achieve poorly, not out of mischief but rather their talents are going to waste and are unchallenged by the current system should be put in a place where their challenges can be met and forged into talent.
Again useless anyway, you'll literally have kids as young as 6 smoking pot daily soon.
Game over basically. You're people are to stupid to live with a little pain to better themselves and would rather take the brunt of it and not have the tools to deal with it then blame it on whitey or some shit.
>>55778336
Not everyone is smart enough to go to college. Many tax dollars will be wasted if idiots get to go for free.
If people need education currently only provided at college. Then should not that education be brought down to high school?
>>55778336
the STEM meme is literally breaking our technological infrastructure and he's wanting to increase that a million fold for every single fucking field of study?
Couldn't get more commie than that
>>55778336
Maybe charging for college allows them to spend more on education?
Maybe making colleges more accountable for their course fees and encouraging people to hire those without degrees would do more than offering bargain education?
>>55778336
Useful degrees like engineering and medicine should be free. Make the idiots who are studying women studies pay for that shit.
>>55778336
Sweet. Now I can go back to school and get that Native American Art degree I've wanted.
>>55779183
They would still need to take the SAT or ACT to get in.
>>55778336
Market flooded with kids that went to college, $15 wage, college grads working min. wage jobs.
>>55778336
Where will the money come from?
>>55778336
OP, you just said like 4 or 5 words in your thread title that I dont think you know the meaning of.
>>55779449
Entrance Exams and Standardize Testing are racist, sexist, and too stressful.
>some random liberal
>>55778336
>How can you not support this?
I support the way training people always used to be done in the past.
By an employer directly training that person straight out of high school when they are still fresh and optimistic about life.
It works so much better than the current way employers are "trained." They first go to college for 4-6 years, get some useless degree. Employers refuse to train them because they are already old, tired, and have learned useless skills the entire time. Then they bounce around from low wage job to low wage job that any high schooler could have done.
This isn't working at all. Having so many Americans take 4-6 years before they can enter the workforce isn't working. And by the time they get out of college and get rejected from so many jobs, they are already too demoralized to be productive.
>>55779504
Eating the rich.
>>55779330
>maybe charging for college allows them to spend more on education
Wish it were so, ausbro, but if you want a quick example look into the real estate scam run by NYU's administration. (One of the most expensive and therefore best schools in the country)
>>55779178
Edit: Auto correct is a cunt
College is useless if your raising people to be idiots until then.
Money down the drain unless the education system works. And those who are smarter than it who achieve poorly, not out of mischief but rather their talents are going to waste and are unchallenged by the current system should be put in a place where their challenges can be met and forged into talent.
Again useless anyway, you'll literally have kids as young as 6 smoking pot daily soon.
Game over basically. Youre people are to stupid to live with a little pain to better themselves and would rather take the brunt of it and not have the tools to deal with it then blame it on whitey or some shit.
>>55779620
>you are people are to stupid to live with a little pain [...]
Brits in charge of not butchering our language
>college degree gives hope.
>college grads are massively unemployed and underemployed
>>55778336
>How can you not support this?
Because it's unabashed theft.
>>55779552
>Eating the rich.
Can Bernie Sanders eat meat even though he says he is vegetarian?
>>55779719
Gave up fighting it, waiting til I get home. There is no hope
>>55779449
Universities accommodate for low scores by putting you in high-school level classes. You can get in to certain schools with terrible scores or grades.
>>55779982
Even if you have great grades and scores, that's not necessarily indicative of intelligence. I went to a pretty decent university with high academic standards for acceptance, and even though it was constantly spoken "this won't be like highschool where you were probably one of the exceptionally smart kids; here you'll be among people just as bright as you", it ended up being just another lie. Having an aptitude or propensity to memorize information and study alot =/= intelligence.
>>55778336
>How can you not support this?
Because the majority of degrees now are fake.
>>55780755
What school did you go to Tripper?
I went to a community college in florida (AA degree) -> Renowned private school in NE for a year and a half (poor so i couldnt afford even with plenty of merit awards and fin aid) -> state school in florida
The difference in attitude, aptitude and quality of interaction is monumental between the three. Maybe I still felt "smarter" than my peers there, who knows if that's justified or not, but the tests in my degree program there fairly evaluated your knowledge of the content and allowed your answers to be judged as you could explain them in your own terms.
At the state school I went to afterwards, it was bell to bell multiple choice tests designed to be easy to pass and difficult to get an A on. To elaborate I'll use physiology as a model:
Overall content of test: three to four systems of the human body
Based off of 300 power point slides, a chapter of a board review series outline and 8 lecture meetings.
>few questions addressing the structure and function of the systems
>many questions about niche information presented in lecture that's largely unimportant to the meat and potatoes of the content
>4-6 questions per exam designed to only evaluate how closely you read the slides... literal factoid like exact ion ratios on either side of the membrane (instead of "more K+ inside, less Na+ outside")
>Clinical questions where you make a diagnosis based on symptoms alone (no questions about treatment, or why a pathology would present with x symptoms)
>misleading/disingenuous question design on the whole (double negatives in the wording, ESL phrasing, etc)
>Actual wrong information presented in class and on exams
compared to my classes at the private school:
Exams based on content of lectures alone, 2 midterms + final (all questions short response)
>questions on diagramming structures
>questions on walking through a physiological process
>explaining endocrine action mouth -> rectum
>etc
>>55780755
There's just as many slackers if not moreso. I had a Psychological testing class with some actual work involving designing a test, giving it out, analyzing the data and coming to a conclusion but what made it awful was working with people. I had 5 other students working in my group, only 3 turned in data and one I had to throw out his data because he didn't give the test right. I even started earlier than everyone else and gave them a week.
I enjoyed the assignment because I like working with data. But as bad as our group ended up being it was only servicable because I did so much work. Everyone else's groups didn't even come close to being as complete or through as I was.
So yeah fuck most college students.
>>55778336
Because if anything should be free, it should be vocations and trade school.
Like Rubio said, welders make more money than most philosophy majors.
We need more people in work, not more unemployed people.
>>55782183
They only make so much because they're in high demand. But I agree.
>>55782017
Problem is colleges prefer to weed people out of their programs after they get their degree. I.e. blocking them from going to the next level but still allowing the undergrad university to collect their dolo.
Actual quote from a girl in the physiology class I mentioned above:
>"Who cares about all these dumb clinical questions, like, am i a doctor yet? no? HELLO!"
>>55778336
>reactionary
There's that word again.
>>55781870
University of Illinois. I transferred in with a 4.0 after two years at a nearby community college. Saved me a ton of money.
People at the community college were generally not the brightest, but that was expected. There were smart people at the university; don't get me wrong. But in even some of the high level classes there were alot of people who really struggled grasping the concepts and explanations of the material. I don't hold it against *them*, really. Some people have aptitudes toward certain things, and some people lack those aptitudes - there's nothing to be ashamed of. It's just that the university people had given me what I found to be a very false impression that I'd be among people who were just as intelligent as me, and it turned out that wasn't really the case except in regard to the professors. Generally anyway; I'm sure there were plenty of students who were smarter than me. I just didn't really meet any, or if I did I didn't get the right impression.
>>55782375
I'm sad I fucked up a year so bad and might not get into a Graduate program. At the very least there wouldn't be idiots at that level for the reasons above. Right?
>>55782017
Group projects are cancer.
I'm glad my major never had any, though the gen ed classes I took that did immensely annoyed me. I luckily ended up with people who had no qualms when I told them I wanted to do all the work, but the sheer fact that there were group projects in the first place in regular academic classes was gay.
>>55779475
>be American
>go to high school 2 for four years just to meet minimum standards
>minimum wage is $20
>can barely afford anything due to increased cost of living
>Can't get a job because you're not in a niche market or colored
>get shot
>>55782454
Well Uni of Illinois is a bit below the threshold of what I'd consider a great school, and I imagine you ran into plenty of the same issues i did at central fla.
The problem, to me, seems to be high aspirations and an assumption that potential is meaningless in the face of hard work. I encountered an uncomfortable amount of regurgitation, info dumping and a general lack of being able to explain what were presented as basic concepts. (For instance having to walk a lab table through osmosis) Even the TA staff and people who outranked me in my graduating class seemed to struggle retaining or understanding anything. I remember in Immuno lab, someone asked a TA why you'd give the mother Rhogam post-delivery in a case of HDN... and her response was a tirade about how complicated immuno was and how she didnt have time to go into that at the moment. You can answer that question in a brief sentence, to be quite honest. "To prevent selective immunity towards future Rh+ fetuses"
I got burned out on uni before I even got to Med School (muh lifelong dream)
Settled on PA school, done, paid my loans off and couldn't be happier with my choice to get out of academia the better part of a decade sooner than planned.
>>55782492
All my friends who did grad programs for STEM (comp E, EE, immuno, micro off the top of my head) had nothing but good things to say about that level of education, with my friend who ended up at Yale for immuno calling their curriculum "evenly paced, effective and non-patronizing"
>>55778336
Tuition free college will make degrees worth less than toilet paper off a freshly wiped ass
oh wait, that's their current value
>>55778336
Cool. I can't wait for us to spend all of our road money so that Shaniqua can get a degree in african american studies and for Shaniqua to blame the heterosexual, white patriarchy when no one wants to hire her.
>>55782743
It's one of the top public schools, leaving it above average but not exceptional. It was the cheapest option for me by far though.
>I encountered an uncomfortable amount of regurgitation, info dumping and a general lack of being able to explain what were presented as basic concepts
Yep. There's no real way to distinguish between the two until you're actually talking and working with people. On paper, lots and lots of rote memorization and time-sink can replicate (at least for the most part) a lot of the things that colleges place weight on in admissions.
>>55782945
Well to go back to what I was saying about multiple choice testing... It really just isn't an effective way to evaluate knowledge for anything that doesn't have an objective, correct answer (Math, Physics, half of Chem)
And even then, it doesn't reflect intermediate undertstanding very well. (Partial credit is handholding but its a valuable way to see where someone is actually at understanding wise)
But for subjects, say, in the biology vein, demonstrating understanding goes far deeper than matching a premise to an answer. People say all the time how flawed our education model is, but they don't even know the half of it. Grade inflation is so bad that A's reflect competency, B's reflect a cursory understanding and anything less reflects poorly on you. Call me a literalist, but I should *know* the ins and outs of every class I got an A in, and sadly I can say that is very rarely the case. Test design is abysmal, and it's mostly because professors simply don't care.
>>55783239
It's the same with philosophy. You can memorize all you want - it doesn't mean you're going to understand a single thing being talked about. Comprehensive understanding is something entirely different than rote memorization.
Free safe spaces for all.
![tumblr_mar8uurzoF1qbl3a8[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/PICbbBU.gif "tumblr_mar8uurzoF1qbl3a8[1].gif")
>>55782454
>university of illinois
>high academic standards
>>55778336
>libertarian
>redpilled
Ayyyyyyyyy
Slap liberal c.ucks in the face. Spit on them, kick them.
Scream at Iiberal c.ucks in public.
Do not let a single c.uck pass by unharmed.
Your life depends on it.
https://youtu.be/6bZLtg8OZYY
>>55783702
Check the GPA and average ACT score requirement for entry.
They're not uncompetitive, especially not the College of Engineering.
>>55778336
I'm not having my checks gutted so Tyrone and his friends can fuck around at community college for 2 semesters
>>55783852
there are like 3 or 4 diff campuses breh, springfield, urbana champaign, chicago, idk maybe more
>>55783956
UIUC is the one I went to. They have the highest standards out of the bunch.
>>55780755
What you said really has nothing to do with what i said. Right now there is a money barrier for college that does a descent job of blocking out people who showed they didn't care about their education in high school. If that barrier is taken away there is no financial loss for these individuals if they don't succeed in college. This makes college a lot more appealing to aspiring NEETs. With no financial loss hordes of people would attend college for the fuck of it because why not. They won't lose anything.
Oh so I won't have to pay back my student loans or is Bernie gonna reimburse me? What a faggot.
Because I wasn't an idiot in high school and got a free ride to a top university. The only people who benefit are dumb niggers who don't deserve to go to college in the first place.
>>55778336
If you want to pump 700billion into education, offer scholarships for smart people to attend whatever college they want.
College is only important for those people who are capable and willing to take advantage of it. Sending mongoloid partygoers to college just brings the college down.
Support intelligent and capable students, don't support the undeserving.
>>55784057
I wasn't really replying to you, I was replying to an idea that your post made me think of.
>>55784000
>admission rate 62%
>SAT (out of 1600 w/o writing) 1320-1470
>ACT 27-32
the fact that over 60% of apps are accepted and the highest ACT at UIUC is equal to the average at my uni desu so i'm gonna have to say
d r o p p e d
r
o
p
p
e
d
How is this plan going to work? He's basically talking about Government funded schools, "Bernie Schools", yeah? Otherwise what keeps us all from going to Ivy League and expensive schools because money doesn't matter anymore?
>>55778336
>How can you not support this?
>"free"
That word doesn't mean what you think it means. Anyway, incoming facts.
2014 Total Income Tax Revenue was $1.7 Tril.
The top 10% paid about 70% of that, or $1.2 Tril.
They already pay about a 50% Income Tax.
Coincidentally the National Student Loan Debt current sits around $1.2 Tril.
Which means you would have to tax them at 100% just to pay for the current debt.
Something else you need to keep in mind, is that that $1.2 Tril only represents Debt that hasn't been paid off. With Tuition Free College people will not make any payments. Which means even if the total concurrent number of college students never increases, the debt would still skyrocket as 100% of the cost is passed to the taxpayer. Now obviously with "free college" enrollment would like likely double or even triple. Which means you're talking about astronomical sums of money now. And the money to pay for it simply doesn't exist, not even with a 100% income tax on the top 10%. Not even with a 100% income tax on everyone.
>>55784332
I dunno. I got a 34 on my ACT. I live very close to Urbana-Champaign, so it was a very easy decision to go there.
>>55784057
Actually I did great in highschool and still couldn't afford private school. Had an AA degree, great test scores, good GPA...
Got every academic merit award the school offered, got pell grants and I still had to fork over $6-7k a semester in tuition. Private school is a financial barrier period, it doesn't reward people who worked hard to get there.
>>55778336
Yeah and he also said climate change is a reason we have terrorism, tonight.
Who the fuck are these people supporting this dolt?
>>55784332
>ACT scores
I took my ACT stoned and got a 35. All that's on that test is middle school math, entry level lit analysis, grammar, and science so dumbed down you're basically reading charts. Hanging your hat on your school's ACT scores speaks more to how stupid standardized testing is, since the bottom limit of their range is still considered a "good score" by most laypeople.
>>55778336
>How can you not support this?
Are you fucking kidding me? Free this, free that, the real world isn't that simple. The people actually putting in work are the ones that are going to have to pay. If you think this is going to turn out any better than Obamacare you're delusional.
>>55784524
There's hardly any grammar in the ACT.
>obama says free gibs be dat
>largest sum of debt in history with zero fucking results
>sanders says free gibs me dat
>??????
do the fucking math people
>>55784555
Am I mixing it and the SAT together then? Regardless the level of knowledge a "high score" on those tests shows is pretty pathetic.
What causes terrorism, /pol/?
(A) Religion
(B) Hatred of America
(C) Climate Change
>>55784766
The ACT isn't really about knowledge so much as application of knowledge to academic problem solving. It's why you often have people who have 4.0's in high school and have a great class-rank who score mid-20's on the ACT.
There's certainly *some* knowledge questions on the ACT, but they're in the minority. I've never taken the SAT so I can't comment on that.
>>55778336
Wow. We know what vote he's pandering to. And he well knows that, if he's elected, he will never do it.
meme campaign promises.
Which private institution is giving you so much money that you can now afford to pay my tuition?
>>55785109
He would just tax people for it. It wouldn't be a private institution at all.
>>55785034
READ MY LIPS
>>55785161
So I'm still paying for it?
>>55778336
Go steal shit for yourself, nigger.
>>55785386
Shhh.
DID SOMEONE SAY...
F R E E ?
F
R
E
E
?
>>55778336
>here get a degree
>but now everyone has one
>if everyone has a degree certainly they must be worth less since everyone has one and usually the only way everyone can have x is if x is shit
>yes your degree is now shit but now everyone has shit
>>55778336
College degree is worth nothing in America. Because almost everyone can college.
If everyone can college. Degree will be worth even less.
>>55784332
Heck, I think I'll take the bait.
More important than comparing standardized test scores and admission criterion is to judge the strength of the uni's undergraduate and graduate specializations among peer institutions. UIUC offers a world-class STEM education, especially in engineering, e.g. Electrical Engineering, Materials Science, etc. If read a publication with members from UIUC on the author list (EE field), I know I can trust the quality of the work 95% of the time. Academia cares little for what happens at the undergraduate level, desu, as long as the research bucks keep coming in.
>>55778336
If I were American, I wouldn't want to pay for hope. I would want a fucking education instead.
>>55778336
Did you do hard drugs for a decade in between?
>>55785483
> b-but muh socialism will keep degrees as an static value
>>55786160
UIUC College of Engineering is great. I got admitted for nuclear engineering, but I changed majors. Knowing I was going to have to take even more math after calc 2 and differential equations 2 killed all motivation I had for pursuing the field.
>>55785483
This is already happening. I've known people with bachelor's degrees competing with each other for a burger-flipping job.
Seems like one thing anons in this thread are failing to account for is that not everyone has the aptitude to study every area and excel.
I completely agree with the economics of Bernie's move being laughable. However, even if it remotely becomes feasible for such a program to go mainstream, take solace in the fact that the colleges will continue to do what they've always done for the degree programs that matter (read STEM): weed people out.
Big daddy government can give you all the free bucks you want, but at the end of the day, the people who are not meant to be in a particular field will weed themselves out. The biggest concern is whether or not there would be departmental pressure on professors to maintain artificial bell curves to keep class sizes up and the government dollars coming in, since that already exists to a degree.
Sad truth is, higher education at the undergraduate level in the states is mostly high school part II for the average unis (read not Ivy Leagues/MITs of the uni world).
>>55779178
This guy gets it. Shit needs to happen at the primary education level for any real gains to occur from higher education.
