[ D a i l y B i k e T h r e a d ] - /dbt/
Fuccboi edition
>Motorcycle Routes & Meetups
>Motorcycle Gear & Accessories
>Motorcycle Adventures & Greentext
>Motorcycle Questions & Answers
>Motorcycle Pictures and Webms
Meet up and fight-
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?msa=0&mid=z7CKLSFiJH_M.kMZoQpBOKipI
>See if it fits.
http://cycle-ergo.com/
>Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/xHjZdhqr
>Sticky:
>>10361928 → (Cross-thread)
>Boring webbum with sound:
>>>/wsg/795151
>Previously on dbt...
>>>14079019
Today I rode around delivering christmas cards to my extended family. Today was a good day.
>>14082834
Today I spent 110€ in wood, hooks and steel cables and spent all the day building a fucking fence. "Vacation time" they said.
Can't wait to get my hands dirty with this thing.
Rust demon is fucking back full fucking force...
I want to kill myself...
>>14082863
Just coat it and forget about it.
>>14082863
that looks awful.
>>14082863
Is that the fuel tank?
>>14082863
I am too scared to look inside my tank.
>>14082880
coat it with wat?
I am going to try out epoxy.... I hope that will help me.
>>14082897
Yes it is, and it was like this after treating it.
But it went rusty very fast...
>>14082863
derust it and keep it topped up, permanently
>>14082905
>coat it with wat?
Nah fuck epoxy it's not gonna last.
We call it tankerite but I couldn't find any english article on it, basically it's a layer of gum like waxy stuff that's resistant to fuel.
>>14082918
That wont do it... You will ride, you will come to reserve and when that happens you are fucked...
>>14082930
Italian product... looks neat...
>>14082863
>dual sport master race
>>14082863
>riding a carbed bike
K E K
E
K
>>14082905
Did you chuck in a hanful nuts and bolts and shake the fuck out of it.
>>14082863
>>14082905
>plastic tank mustardrace
>>14082980
Nop, its only surface rust.
>>14082974
Carbs are the way to go.
You can just go cry when your FI bike brakes down
>>14082985
What if it cracks? They must be made very tough...
>>14083000
>Nop, its only surface rust
Should have done it still. It will clean it better. You really need to seal the tank.
>>14083000
i dont know anyone whos broken a plastic tank in the 20 years ive been riding.
polyethylene is a goddamn tough plastic, same stuff plastic barrels are made out of and plastic kayaks
>the dent free life
>>14082985
>>plastic tank mustardrace
posting pics from earlier
>>14083055
>>14083063
>>14083012
I actually broke the original tank on my DR the weekend before I had it converted to road. The dealership found it when they were inspecting the bike.
>>14082905
>coat it with wat?
I've used this, but in truth the best results I ever had with a rusty tank was a largish plastic see-through inline fuel filter and don't worry about it.
![IMG_0110[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ICYy7yl.jpg "IMG_0110[1].jpg")
I have acquired the tasty juice
>>14083012
And the circumstance was I was doing about 50mph out in Capitol Forest, hit a few trees because things got hektik and ended up in the bottom of a ravine. And it was just cracked, not broken. Some silicone would have fixed it if I'd found it before the dealership did.
>>14083210
tfw no juice pillion
>>14082905
>>14083187
The PO kreem-coated the tank on my kz1000j, and it's been fine. When the tank on my kz1000Police went rusty, I just stuck pic related in the fuel line between the fuel valve and the carb. I've had no trouble at all.
>>14083231
Yeah, i was thinking of paper filter too, but i have a carb.. its not fuel injected so i am afraid of having a fuel shortage...
And i have a mid filter but its mesh type.
>>14083242
He just said he had a carb. Fucking moron
>>14083242
My kz's are both carb. The filter I got was from the auto parts store. I tested it by just letting it drain the tank into a gas can, and it seemed to flow just as much as the hose with no filter...
>>14083252
>He just said he had a carb. Fucking moron
I totally agree with you. It's like he's a presumptuous cunt who has to give people shit for using an antiquated yet effective means of delivering a fuel/air mixture to the engine.
Boss was a bit of an asshole today (which is unusual), VFR was stubborn to start today, leaks oil, soccer mom in a SUV was about to pull out in front of me...
Yet I feel content and rather in a state of zen.
I really need to find more time and excuses to ride for a good long while.
>>14083263
I am still a bit sceptic, but if it feeds your carbs than it will do the job for mine too. Will try it out tomorrow.
Ah fucking tank and rust, it sucks ass...
>>14083252
>>14083283
No need for that kind of language. I didn't read it.
Way too tired and my mind is burned because of this fucking tank..
But yea i am a moron for not paying attention.
>>14083350
m8 we use paper filters on our race engines. theyre fine.
>>14083350
You are worse that kitkat.
At least he can read.
>>14083350
Throw a paper filter on there. Regret nothing. If you're that worried about the flow, get more hose and use a HUGE filter. More surface area for it to go through.
>>14083370
Ah man don't go there...
Fuck i am from Serbia, what did you expect?
>>14083360
Awesome...
>>14083377
Surface area is not a problem...
Thank you all for this. I am going to bed it has been a rough day.
>>14083385
I know you're from serbia.
You are my least favorite anon.
Also summoning chicagoanon
>>14083385
How did you even afford a bike in the first place?
I thought all serbs were on poverty rations
>>14083385
četniče oš kurca?
>http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/mcy/5368693642.html
i dont need it...
i dont need it...
i need it...
>>14083600
>cash only
>bill of sale only
Nothing sus
>>14083604
aw shit , i didnt notice that.
>into the trash it goes
I smoked the shit out of some faggot on a jap scrap rice bike today lol
>>14083619
>offroad only dirtbike
>no title
Is that not normal?
>>14083648
What did your meth trailer burn down?
>>14083648
beating some kid on a 1973 125 enduro isnt really something to brag about
>>14083654
in WA all bikes are titled. its possible it was brought over from another state but id be looking to get it plated if i got it.
>>14083658
>tfw i don't own a 1972 125 Enduro anymore
:(
>>14083673
>plated
>kx500
Fug I can't even. You don't have green and red stickered bikes there? It is that a cali thing? Washington seems based
>>14083682
>mfw I own a 1979 250 enduro
yooo /dbt/
want to join you and plan to get a bike tax season but idk what im doing. was looking into old ass bikes and had that revelation so i got some questions
>how many mile is considered "high"
>is getting an old bike as a first a bad idea(eg. yamaha seca 750 1982)
>how much should i spend on my first (was looking for a thousand or less)
land of the free btw if that matters
>>14083691
you can plate any dirtbike you want in WA, just needs to have the basics
lights, mirrors, battery, etc
>>14083699
>mfw I own an 81 500cc standard
>mfw mf is a sign.
Hiked like 1.5-2 miles up a mountain in ski gear to hit some back country. Does dbt ski?
>>14083716
>how many mile is considered "high"
Depends on the bike and how well maintenance has been carried out
>is getting an old bike as a first a bad idea(eg. yamaha seca 750 1982)
No not automatically. It is if you have no knowledge on how to work on and fix bikes or no desire to do so. The little things add up.
>how much should i spend on my first (was looking for a thousand or less)
I got mine for 800
>>14083844
>>14083900
dubdubs
![DSCI2590cw[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/I9DoD7K.jpg "DSCI2590cw[1].jpg")
>nfw no cute white girl to ride with
>>14083975
>tfw motorcycles are ebic dates in summer
>no girl wants to ride during winter
>I don't really want to ride during winter
fug
>>14083975
>check out VFR750F with Dad in New Hampshire
>lady owned it for a year and decided to sell it because it was so heavy
>totally understandable, it's pretty heavy for what it is
>roll up to address in the hood
>get out and meet a 5'8 qt3.14 blonde white girl sitting on the steps of decent house
>takes us to the back and opens her garage
>tells us how she got it and is looking for something lighter
>has several years of riding experience and is like 22
>knows her way with tools and did some services herself
My god she was perfect. She even had whole anti-bureaucrat New Hampshire charm.
>tfw had to haggle her down because of the significant rust and fairing cracks from PO
>>14083993
>>tfw motorcycles are ebic dates in summer
>>no girl wants to ride during winter
>>I don't really want to ride during winter
>implying you could get a girl to ride with you
How do I get a bike without my parents killing me?
>>14084201
move out
>>14082905
>>14082863
Want the good news or the bad news?
Good news:
The easiest thing you can do is put a rubber lining in the fuel tank so that the rust does not matter..
The bad news:
it will never stop going rusty once the coating is gone and the only real solution that is long lasting is you strip the paint off the tank and re galvanise the inside. (you could leave the paint on but to galvanise metal takes molten zinc, if you do not know how to work metals you will have to get it done professionally because it is an easy job to fuck up.)
>>14084201
Disregard parents, buy motorcycle.
If they kick you out move somewhere with your new motorcycle and have sex with its exhaust pipe in celebration of your victory.
Is there some sort of guide to buy and being a new owner of a bike. My car died and i have no means of transportation and I've been considering this bike since i can afford it
>>14084201
Get better parents.
>>14084287
pic related
>>14084287
Do you have riding experience? We have info in the OP and in the /o/ sticky.
>53F in Des Moines today
It was a good day to brap around until the clouds rolled in. Cooled off pretty quickly.
>>14083771
how much is high for the bike in question (seca)
ignoring shit like maintenance because i wont know until i check it out usually or how many miles on a bike is too high to buy (or does that shit not really matter)?
>>14084319
no riding experience, not even license to ride one, i was gonna bring my old ass dad to test drive it for me lmao
Horey shet
http://www.rallymanagementservices.com/pages/sample-budget-for-the-dakar-rally
>>14084490
>DR650 instead of KTM
Subtract $15000 for moto and parts. lol
>>14084490
There is a reason why you need sponsorship to race.
>>14084549
Also subtract 57 positions at the finish.
>>14084473
Go to the MSF first. Don't buy a supersport as your first bike. We have a first bike infographic here that someone might post if you /r/ nicely.
It's nice having a bike as a back up to a car, or the other way around!
>>14084562
As long as I made it, I'd be happy as a hog in slop!
>>14084591
Honestly fuck doing dakar on a bike lol, Look up "Dakar rally fatalities" and you will notice a trend.
The really fucked up thing is people set traps for bikes on that rally.
Now the Finkle desert race, that is one that would be good fun to do.
>>14084646
>traps
Why would they do such a thing? Spite? Turrisms?
>>14084655
niggers and they literally do it for luls.
>>14084646
kek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjHTqeqbKoE
>>14084549
The replacement parts cost would still be the same as far as tires, wheels, chains, etc etc goes. Unless you are one of those teams that brings a whole extra engine or something.
The DR is also heavy as fuck and would sink in the dunes like an anchor
>>14084720
Haha that first guy fuck he was tired.
>>14084655
For fun. 3rd worlders are subhuman. They are no better than animals.
>>14084646
That's amost the whole point of doing it.
Also has anyone watched Road about the Dunlop family of moto racers? Watched it today it was pretty good.
>>14084774
I think the whole point is its supposed to be a hard desert race lol, it doest need mexicans setting booby traps as well, which is why the Finkle is better.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiXHe5Qv6rQ
This is KBB. If I show this to a dealership, will they just laugh at me?
Most listings I see are at like 7-8k.
>>14084842
But part of the draw is the fact that it's the most deadly race. Same with the Isle of Man TT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRWp9rhfS_0
>>14084874
If you watch that video you will see the Finkle desert race is one that you do Dakar to train for.
>>14084871
Nope, use that when bargaining, they sell cars/bikes for much more than they pay for them or they are worth, generall if something is selling for $10,000 at a dealer you can get $2000 off that price.
>>14084871
Assessed vs Market Value m8. Dealing with that BS trying to buy a house right now...
>>14084871
dealerships got to make money bro. yes, they will laugh and then they will tell you to fuck off.
>>14084884
I've seen the video before, Seems like a pure desert race while the Dakar is a multi-surface race.
>>14084908
dealership would have bought the bike for $3000 they will be making like $2000 if he buys it at that price, dealership don't need to make $4000 bro.
>>14084921
Im just saying the best riders the finkle desert race has ever seen both train for it by doing the Dakar earlier in the year. You are right though Finkle is trophy trucks and what not, most of the things in Dakar would not be able to compete in the Finkle due to slow.
>>14084952
forgot pic
>>14084962
>tfw no trophy truck
>>14084998
>tfw good paying job and full time hours
>still not enough money
do i need cheaper hobbies?
>>14084998
>tfw no place near to my house to ride muh dirtbike
>>14084871
The KBB is based on surveys of dealers in your area as to how much they are giving in trade-in and how much they are getting for the bike at retail. So if they suggest $5525, then dealers have been telling KBB that they are getting $5525 for those bikes, regardless what they list.
>>14085034
Do what everyone in NYC does. Just hoon in large packs so the cops can't pull you over.
>>14085022
>cheaper hobbies
Is sucking dicks expensive?
>>14085022
Must be, I'm in the exact same position. Would probaby help if I only had 2 cars instead of 4 and 3 bikes instead of 5
I'm even getting bookoo overtime right now.
>>14085049
i would do that but theres only 3 people in my city thats im friends w that would do that with me
>>14085051
maybe i ought to sell some of the RC stuff..
i just cant bring myself to sell any of the funs, and im already trying to sell the only bike i can stand to part with.
though i want about 4 different bikes to add to the collection.
at least i have some on call bonuses coming up
>>14085022
look at this pussy - you sure you have enough guns though? What if someone holds you up for your second gun using your first gun. Or a bear viciously attacks you spilling the revolver into a puddle and maiming you clip loading hand?! I'd probably start carrying an ankle weapon as well.
>>14085022
I know the bloke in this video and he had to sell one of his houses to do this shit.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtPRryRg4PA
>>14085022
Cannot into brain tonight. That a CZ and a Colt?
>>14085096
I would probably be best selling some guitar stuff but can't bring myself to. I really should play haven't touched any of them in some time.
>>14085108
>one of his houses
Yeah totally the same situation.
>>14085101
i only have 26 of them right now
well..technically 27
>>14085108
>one of his houses
i dont know this feel mang
>>14085133
Man that picture is blurry as fuck.
>Look at how tiny this dog used to be
>>14085132
nailed it, 75B and a detective special
>>14085133
i never could get the hang of playing anything worth a damn, i just dedicated my time to playing the gun instead.
it killed me as a kid, my best friend could pick up any instrument and have it figured out with an hour.
>>14083682
>>14083699
tfw 1978 350 enduro
Get @ me fuckers.
>>14085133
>>14085135
Buggies are cheaper, i this one cost them i think 25 grand to build
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bStsNd9DLWA
>>14085160
I don't pretend to be very good, but I have put some time in.
I really wish I had some drums to be quite honest.
>wanting to spend money on more shit
Damnit me.
>>14085173
I can play the didgeridoo but i can't circular breathe.
Idk if i am motivated enough to learn how to play the aboriginal fart pipe properly though.
>>14085197
I could never get circular breathing. I don't remember why but I was trying to learn at one point, couldn't get it.
>>14085170
I'd be happy with a standard sand rail/dune buggy
>>14085224
Oh or this thing
>>14084103
U wish m8 ;)
>i need to stop talking to my ex
>>14085272
Post tits, ass n vag.
>>14085286
>ass
It's like you didn't even look at the picture
>>14085272
>half black
eww
>mfw I can only enjoy riding when i run away from the police. Took off my tag and been provoking cops for the past 7 months. Atleast need a chase at least once a week. Im probably gonna end up dead but the adrenaline is worth it.
>>14085362
>cool story bro
You need to post footage.
>>14085388
Bikes_vs_cops footage has been sent to him. He usually posts on insta. Some youtube vids too.
Any tricks to increasing WebM quality without massively increasing file size?
>>14085286
No
>>14085335
Mexican
Rode home on my VFR700 and played with a Hayabusa.
That, is one fucking quick bike. The 700 is definitely no slouch, not even in her old age (She's a low/mid 11s bike), but that thing just took off and pulled like I was a 250 of some kind.
And I don't think the guy wasn't 100% getting on it either...
>>14085472
they're pretty heavy though this guys >>14085446 bike would probably pull harder below 150mph.
>>14085446
Make the resolution smaller, for one.
>>14085472
>hayabusas
Ridden one. They're fucking gigantic. Tbh 1000s and 600s feel like they pull harder at lower speeds, albeit the 600s would have to start around 12k RPM to actually feel like they have any pull.
H2 feels way faster, and I'm fairly sure it is. That thing is a fucking monster on the straights. I wish I could've convinced the owner to let me swap bikes with him in the twisties so I could see how bad that 500lbs feels in the corners.
>>14085501
>tfw no desert to ride in
pacific northwest is nice, but desert riding is so much faster
>>14085472
I'd kill both of you in the twisties
>>14085521
Grass is greener. I really miss riding in the PNW.
Here the shitty thing is any tiny amount of rain causes huge washouts, so even on trails you have been on a million times you have to be pretty careful or you may just launch into a washout and crash at 50 mph.
Yes please
newfag here, what is the general consensus on HC helmets? pic related for example
>>14085561
>>14085575
HJC* helmets
>>14085575
I have one I used to ride in daily. Not the quietest or lightest but a decent cheap helmet. Mine was even Snell approved
Pic related my wife wearing it
I'm thinking about buying a project bike from my old man, what do you guys think?
>>14085585
>>14085599
> wife
REEEEEEEEEE
>>14085610
if you really want to do it do it but be prepared to work on it a lot and sink twice what you paid for it in parts.
also have fun finding that title kek
>>14085446
>>14085272
I'm willing to lay down hard cash that it has a penis.
>>14085599
>my wife wearing it
Im pretty sure thats a dude.
>>14085748
Brizzy lads
>>14085796
Yep
I don't own the meme machine anymore.
>>14085561
>>14085587
>>14085790
I've met his wife. She's real.
>>14085837
Shim's post op isn't it.
>>14085837
Did u fuckt her?
>>14085836
the fuck do you think you are doing cunt!?
"For most of you Harley-Davidson riders this article will be a "awful truth" revelation, but one only need read the many V-Twin motorcycle magazines over a long period of time to verify what you read here is indeed not only shocking, but true."
"There are serious defects in the Harley-Davidson Twin-Cam engines."
What defects? Plenty of them. Enough to alarm you. However, you can fix some of these defects and end up with a nice bike. Yes, even the new Twin-Cam engine Harley's have serious problems. Even the expensive CVO (Custom Vehicle Operations) bikes have issues not to be taken lightly.
The Code of Silence!
Those who know, don't tell. Those who don't know, don't want to know. Those who find out the hard way are broke and ashamed to admit their bike is defective. Worse, they believe it is not a defect and will not break again. It is a sin to reveal defects in Harley-Davidson motorcycles. Dealers are silent. Salespersons are silent. Parts people are silent. Mechanics are quiet. All fear losing their job by management if they dare speak of the "defects" so the roar of their silence is deafening!
>>14085860
>implying a cuck can cuck others
Don't trigger the sperg!
For fucks sake!
>>14085863
Oh boy here we go.
>>14085863
I wonder if the mod will know this is actually old stale copy pasta when I report it?
>>14085883
youll get banned for announcing report
I'm not sure who's trolling who anymore.
>>14085887
I didn't announce shit.
>>14085893
Okay, here we go...
1. The biggest problem is the poor design of the cam chain system. It still uses "shoes" riding on the cam chains that can still wear out, even with the new hydraulic tensioning system, for that is not a true and lasting fix. What is the problem? The soft plastic or nylon shoes rub against the two chains and the shoes wear out. When they do there will be metal to metal contact and this grinding creates metal shavings that creates a catastrophic engine failure. So bad the entire engine is destroyed; cams, pistons, crankshaft, engine cases broken. It is a wickedly serious engine design defect. Be aware... it can fail at 15,000 miles. Even the new hydraulic system can fail at 40,000 miles or less and those nasty little shoes need replacing at 40,000 miles due to its inherent weaknesses.
>>14085895
I think it's just like a mutual wank session now.
>>14085901
"You may hear a sound like the starter motor is running, but if your pipes are loud you may not get even this warning. The oil pump passages can clog up without making any noise whatsoever except when the engine starts tearing itself to pieces."
What is the fix? You can purchase a gear set that eliminates the cam chains and shoes. Harley-Davidson should, in my opinion, make this a standard fix and not an after the fact option. If you can't afford to install the gear system, then you need to disassemble and inspect the inner and outer shoes every 15,000 miles or risk total engine failure. The shoe material can also clog the oil pump totally destroying the engine. There are plenty of motorcycle magazines explaining how to fix this nagging problem.
>>14085902
Note: But keep in mind that the crankshaft pinion shaft runout (the shaft will hop up & down motion) can not exceed 3-thousands of an inch otherwise the gears will not work. Also consider your riding style. If you like to ride hard the runout (unbalancing/misaligning crankshaft webs) can easily creep beyond .003" and the gears will clash causing catastrophic havoc to the engine. There really is "no fix" for this Twin-Cam engine defect. Even the new hydraulic system still has chain tension shoes that will eventually wear out and if you don't catch it in time, the shoes can disintegrate just like the old spring-tension system and cause the cam chain to slap against metal causing total engine failure, usually by clogging the oil pump with metal chips.
"Every Twin-Cam engine has the cam chain follower defect, even the new models. If it has a cam chain it has a problem! And every single one of these engines will seize up without warning. Will it be today, tomorrow or next year? That is the question you have to ask yourself. It may be ten years from now depending on the miles on your engine, but rest assured it is going to fail 100% guaranteed and guess who is going to pay for it?"
>>14085923
Note: Be aware that pre '06 Dyna's and the 1999 to 2006 Twin-Cam Harley-Davidson engines are seriously defective and they will blow up. How? As the spring loaded cam chain follower fails is shreds plastic material that fouls the rotary gear oil pump cutting off oil flow to the engine causing sudden catastrophic engine failure and destruction. Also metal to metal contact produces metal filings to disperse into the oil prior to being filtered by the oil filter. Be prepared to buy a completely new motor. Rebuilding the engine may not be feasible.
New Harley Engines Will Fail Too!
And don't think you are out of the woods if you have the new hydraulic cam chain tensioners for model years 2007 to present. They will fail beyond the factory warranty period. The problem was not fixed, it was only delayed to, on average, fail above 50,000 miles. Check the fine print in your extended warranty as this cam chain related failure may not be protected. Yikes! You may be required to endure expensive periodic inspections to retain the warranty. The fact the hydraulic cam chain adjusters still have nylon pads rubbing against chains the pads will still wear out and big-time havoc happens!
>>14082863
>>14082905
fix it before it's too late
>>14085883
>this mad harley is fucking shit
"Believe it or not! When the engine fails it is not covered under warranty! Dealers will tell you it is a failed maintenance issue. In other words, you failed to pay the dealer to tear your engine apart to inspect the condition of the cam chain followers on a routine basis. This is not fair dealings, but it is what you will get when buying a Harley-Davidson. It's the price you will pay to play."
Did you read that right? Imagine if you bought a new car and they tell you you must have the engine disassembled every 15,000 to keep your warranty! Nobody does that to customers, but Harley-Davidson? Not cool, bro. Not cool at all. This problematic engine defect in the Twin-Cam engine is terrifying, at least I found it so, there is no way I will buy another T-C engine bike. And that's just one engine defect... read on! It gets scarier.
>>14085905
>>14085900
>am a gud boi i din report nuffin
>>14085957
Note: Are the 2007 and newer Twin-Cam engines safe? No! Do not be fooled. Hydraulic cam chain followers are now used getting rid of the stiff spring that put too much pressure on the followers rubbing on the cam chain, but this is "no cure" as it only "delays" the problem. Instead of the engine failing at 15,000 to 30,000 miles it now fails at 50,000 to 75,000 miles. There is only one cure... get rid of the chain system entirely and switch to gear driven cams. Do your research now and budget your repair. Do not wait until the engine fails because if you ride a Twin-Cam Harley the engine is going to blow up! The old spring-loaded cam chain tensioner system affected the 1999-2006 model Twin-Cam engines. You can upgrade the cam drive system to the late-style hydraulic tensioners with improved low-friction chains or gear drive with the newer cam plate and higher capacity oil pump. The higher capacity oil pump was introduced in 2007. Any competent repair shop can guide you as to what you should do with your specific model year H-D motorcycle.
>>14085966
"You won't get a straight honest answer from Harley dealers regarding this awful engine defect. I have been lied to by dealers and given a run-around by dealer employees. It just happened again July 2, 2011 in Carson City, NV Harley-Davidson dealer. The service writer would not answer my questions, gave me a song and dance and refused to forward my questions and concerns to the mechanic or management and frankly upset me with sarcastic comments. Problem is a problem exists and Harley-Davidson dealers are actively not giving straight answers to customers. That is a deceptive business practice and it is against the law under false and misleading advertising and dishonest business practices concealing known facts from the consumer prior to sale!"
>>14085972
Note: You will not hear any rubbing sounds or receive any indications the cam follower has failed even is you have quiet stock exhaust pipes on the bike. The engine will fail suddenly and catastrophically and it may even take you down to the pavement as the engine oil coats your rear wheel. This is a dangerous and expensive engine defect nobody wants to talk about, but it is a real threat to your health, safety and your finances.
New Development on Cam Follower Problem: Installing a gear drive system is not the cure and may actually cause severe engine damage in the future if installed. First, the crankshaft run out (up and down, left and right motion, not thrust of the crankshaft) must be within a tight tolerance. The problem is the gears are "stacked" one upon another instead of side-by-side so if the crankshaft is out of alignment (and it will get out of alignment just with normal wear the crank and camshaft bearings) the gears will "compress together" and that can break the engine cases, bearings, crankshaft, cams and it devastates the engine to near worthlessness. So, it there is now cure now for the Harley-Davidson Twin-Cam engine. This indicates why Harley-Davidson has no cure "real" for this cam chain tensioners shoe problem.
fuq
I'm doing my routine before I go to work, except I'm riding this time and that means I have to spend an extra 15minutes putting on raingear and shit.
I'm a slave to my bike.
>>14085978
DO YOU HAVE LEGAL RECOURSE?
If your Twin-cam engine grenades and Harley-Davidson never told you in writing how to prevent such a catastrophe and how to fix the problem at Harley-Davidson's cost you can win in small claims or Superior court a refund of the purchase price of your motorcycle. Consult an attorney. That's what I would do if my engine exploded due to a known manufacturing defect and nobody told me about it in writing when I bought the new or used motorcycle from an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer. A dealer can not conceal known defects to sell a defective product upon an unsuspecting consumer, but that is what Harley-Davidson and its dealers are doing. They are even charging riders money to "inspect" their defective engine profiting upon innocent consumers who have no choice but to pay and obey which is illegal to profit from a corrupt business transaction and a bad contract. I would sue Harley-Davidson and the dealer in small claims court for a full refund of all such recommended inspection costs and/or make them buy the motorcycle back at the full purchase price, tax, license, registration, insurance, etc.
WHAT IS THE TRUE FIX?
There is only one fix for this cam chain follower problem and that is to convert the entire cam drive system to gears. Don't bother with aftermarket fixes that will convert and update your "spring" tension cam chain follower system to the newer "hydraulic" cam chain system for both of these systems are defective and both will fail because it really does not fix the problem, it only prolongs the problem to fail later down the road and usually out of warranty coverage on new bikes. The hydraulic nylon hydraulic cam follower will still wear out and the plunger piston will exit the bore and no tension will be on the cams and valve float can swallow the valves breaking pistons, rods, crank and cases and the oil pump can be blocked by debris to totally ruin the engine. A horrendous expensive mess! The gear cam drive system may be a tad noisier from gear whine but it is way better than a wrecked engine! But in all reality there is no true fix other than Harley-Davidson redesigning the cam drive system to get rid of those cam chain shoes and not stacking vertically gears to drive the cams. The cam gears must be aligned horizontally as the Sportster engine so does intelligently. The crankshaft pinion shaft can be bent when the bearings wear causing the gears to slam against each other... yikes!
>>14085990
"A lot of Harley riders are "silent" on these defect issues. They don't want to know. They don't want the embarrassment. They just want to ride and not think about it. Many Harley riders do not even know they are sitting on a time bomb and their engine is going to tear itself to pieces. Ignorance is bliss, but they all will pay the price."
2. Most Touring model Harley's have a high speed wobble that can be dangerous. The engine is not sufficiently secured to the frame causing weaving, wiggling, wobbles and rear wheel steer. In some cases riders have lost control and crashed. There is a fix. ProgressiveSuspension.com makes brackets you can install yourself to stop the high speed wobble. The original Touring Link fits 1993-2008 models and the newer Touring Link fits 2009-2013. True-Track also makes a fix for Dyna, Low Rider and Touring models. Some newer Harley's may already have the fix installed, but not all of them, so consider this before buying. The 2011 model year bikes have had the wobble problem repaired. If your bike wobbles it can be just a steering head bearing needing adjustment, worn shocks, or worn swingarm bearings, even your tires tread pattern can cause wobbles and tire not properly mounted (unbeaded tire) or a warped brake disk or worn wheel bearings, loose spokes should all be checked first.
>>14085934
He is an idiot, I bet that "antirost" shit he used is just Chromium Trioxide and Phosphoric Acid.
It will just attack the rust and turn it into a phosphate. It doesn't seal anything.
To do it properly would be to use it with a handful of nuts and bolts thrown in and shake the fuck outta it, dump contents and clean out with pure acetone, then seal with a product like Kreem™.
>>14085997
ock failure. The lifters can seize in the blocks or just plain rattle in the bores when worn out. It is a random thing. Some engines never have a problem while others will fail. The failure can be bad as it can hang up a valve so the piston hits the valve and "wham" the engine is blown. The Evolution Big-Twin engine also has lifter problems and the lifters and lifter blocks must be replaced each 25,000 miles to be safe because at 30,000 miles stock lifters have been known to fail. The Evo's lifter's roller needle bearings fall apart and this can take out the cam lobes and the oil pump's gears. The actual hydraulic lifters are also weak and fail and that is another reason why H-D makes upgraded lifters for the T-C engine especially if you hop up the engine as performance cams "slam" the lifters hard. But even a tiny spec of dirt in the oil can make a lifter fail. If you have lifter failure you better learn to change your own oil quickly as dirty oil is being left behind causing engine damage. Dirty oil is simply abrasive oil that is like injecting sandpaper inside your engine or valve grinding compound. If lifters fail replace all four of them, not just one. Upgrade to stronger lifters, don't go back to using factory stock lifters!
>>14086004
"You won't hear about these serious problems from a dealer or salesperson. But you do have a right to know."
4. The shift drum is operated by a spring loaded awl and if this spring fails, and they do fail, the spring falls into the transmission gears and horrific damage takes place. The rear wheel can lock up, the transmission cases split apart throwing oil all over your rear wheel causing you to crash. There is no fix for this problem. It is a faulty design issue. It would be advisable to replace the shifter awl spring once every three years or 30,000 miles to be on the safe side.
>>14086014
5. Belt drive can be an expensive problem. To replace a worn or perforated belt the entire primary chain case must be taken apart along with the bike's swing arm. It is expensive to replace a belt or the transmission drive pulley because it is time consuming. Most riders don't even think about this until the day comes they have to replace the belt and find out it will cost them $1,000 or more. And, believe it or not, a drive belt should be replaced every 30,000 miles even though it may last much longer, if a belt fails, it can cause you to lose control, lock up the rear wheel or transmission and cause a crash. And new transmission and rear wheel pulleys also need to be installed too driving the cost sky high. The bill for pulleys and belt and labor may exceed $2,500. There is a company Super Max that can put a liner on your existing pulleys to save you money. Did you know that Harley-Davidson Sportster's do not have this problem? You can change the drive belt in just 30 minutes! Read our article on Sportster's. Have you noticed more and more experienced riders are switching to them? Unlike earlier models you can convert the newer models fit your ergonomics to gain comfort.
>>14086024
6. The crankshafts on Harley's can suddenly go out of balance. The repair is expensive. I had a new Twin-Cam engine crankshaft fail at just 6,000 miles. Many riders are lucky, but there is a weakness in the crankshafts that randomly fail. The crank flywheels are "pressed" together onto the crankshaft and are not welded (crankpin to flywheel) and the crank pin and flywheels can slip. This is a very old design and outdated in this modern world. However, welding the crankpin to the flywheels fixes the problem. You will notice big-inch motors all have welded crankpins to their flywheels to stop this flywheel slipping out of balance problem. You know you have a slipped crankshaft when engine vibration gets stronger than normal and does not go away. It will feel like a motor mount has broken, allowing the engine and frame to shake more, but it will be silent. If you suspect this problem, always tighten the motor mounts and look for broken or worn rubber grommets in the mounts first. It could be a minor fix. If not, the entire engine must be torn down and engine cases split to fix the crankshaft. The dealer may on install a new H-D crank that is not welded... it is still not a good idea even if it is a covered H-D warrantee repair. Riders who do have vibration problems? Dealers enjoy telling them, "All Harley's Vibrate!" This is true, but up to a limit of course. Don't expect dealers to be eager to fix your vibrating bike. Many riders are given the run-around even when the crankshaft has shifted out of balance.
>>14086028
Another problem is the Twin-Cam engines use a pair of straight roller bearings for the crankshaft instead of the tapered Timken roller bearing which is axial load bearing and much stronger and stable. The straight bearing works when new, but when the engine wears in the crankshaft can "walk" between the split case halves and applies side loading on the connecting rods, rod bearings and the pistons. It is a bad design and the fix is to install Timken tapered roller bearings and to lock them into place with a securing plate and screws as the crankshaft bearings on Twin-Cam engines are known for crankshaft main bearings to slip out of the case! These are horrible problems. Cycle Source Magazine's July 2013 mentioned this problem.
>>14086035
In 2003 Harley-Davidson changed the left-side crankcase bearing from two Timken tapered roller bearings to a single straight roller bearing. The new bearing is okay for stock bikes (and Stage I), but if you hop-up the motor (beyond Stage I) you are risking bearing failure. If you do hop-up your engine you can revert to the stronger duel-tapered bearings. Why did H-D install cheaper, weaker bearings in the 2003 and later engines? Makes no sense other than to create engine failures. JIMSUSA.com has the bearings. It is expensive in labor costs to replace the crankcase bearings as the entire engine must be dismantled and reassembled. I consider this an engine defect when a strong bearing is removed by the factory only to fail if the engine is modified. Many riders install larger pistons and cams in their motors and if this weak crankcase bearing is not upgraded a rude awakening of a totally wrecked motor will be the result. This is not good.
>>14086040
Changes are always being made by Harley-Davidson so check with your H-D dealer to see if the bike you want to buy has the Timken straight bearing or the stronger duel tapered bearings. Do not rely on salespersons to give you accurate answers (many do lie). You may need to ask a mechanic and two more mechanics to verify. There is a lot of misinformation being circulated.
"Don't you believe those salespersons and parts managers when they tell you the defects have been fixed in the new Twin-Cam engines... they have not been fixed, the same failures still occur!"
7. The chrome may look nice in the showroom, but don't expect it to last. I had a new Harley rusting its chrome in just one year. The polished aluminum oxidized too. I was gravely disappointed with my second brand new Harley-Davidson motorcycle.
"Think twice before you buy a Harley-Davidson motorcycle. Be aware of what you are getting into."
>>14086046
9. After you buy the Harley-Davidson motorcycle make sure the spark plugs are snug to torque specification is a Harley-Davidson motor. If the plug works loose it will cause expensive cylinder head repairs. This procedure is covered in the book How to Change the Oil in Your Twin-Cam Harley-Davidson. Also, make sure the electrical plug connecting the alternator (near the oil filter) is snug and connections are clean. A loose or dirty connection here will certainly burn up the alternator and rectifier including the circuit breaker.
Harley spam guy>anti harley guy
>>14086060
10. The above engine problems include the newer twin cam engines even the 2011 and newer models. There are even more serious problems with older Harley's prior to model year 2007. So if you plan to buy a used Harley you had better consult with experienced mechanics to identify the known defects before you buy and are stuck with a financial bombshell.
>>14086066
11. Harley's do not retain their value as much as you are being led to believe. The worst enemy is high mileage, so don't bother riding your Harley if you want to retain its trade-in or resale value. What is considered too high? Try 15,000 miles. That's low for most bikes, but a Harley with that many miles will suffer with a great loss of depreciation in price. Why? Because the Harley engine design is old with many seals and gaskets that will eventually fail and leak oil. The top end runs hot and the piston rings and valves just burn away requiring an overhaul. If you own a Harley, get an oil cooler as it will extend engine life, but it will not give you any points or dollars when it is time to sell. One thing a Harley rider will learn soon enough, buy a Harley and you'll lose your money! Depreciation affects all vehicles, but when low miles become high miles there is a big problem for the consumer. Be aware! There is one solution, buy another brand of motorcycle or buy a Harley-Davidson Sportster (see comments below) Why You Should Buy a Victory Motorcycle and use that bike to do most all of your riding and use your Harley just for special occasions. Of course, if you can buy a Harley-Davidson Sportster model you can have your cake and eat it too.
>>14086061
harley cuck detected
>>14086075
"Even hiring a mechanic to inspect a used Harley-Davidson motorcycle is useless due to the engine design defects. A brand new Harley-Davidson sitting in the showroom has the defects."
11. If you buy a Harley-Davidson V-Rod motorcycle be prepared to pay a small fortune for service as the valves must be manually adjusted and to do that the engine must be dropped down out of the frame. This is expensive and it will be a routine expense to be sorry for. The labor and parts to perform the valve adjustment is just terrible considering the other Harley's with hydraulic lifters that never need to be adjusted period. You had best be prepared to pay for valve adjustments or learn to do the job yourself. Either way you will find doing this job a royal pain in the wallet and a total waste of your valuable time. Will this be the future fate of all motorcycles? If so, learn to perform these valve adjustments yourself.
>>14086075
Mad poorfag pussy hurt cuz he can't afford harley :D
Stay mad kid, I ride I honda ; )
>>14086085
12. Another terrible problem all Twin-Cam engines have is the dreaded "crankshaft slip." A perfectly new bike with low miles can suddenly begin vibrating so badly it makes riding no fun anymore, even if the engine is rubber mounted. I too had a brand new Harley and the crank slipped. The crankshaft flywheels are pressed together to the crank pin. Without notice and without cause the flywheels will slip out of alignment and the vibration is born. What is sad is that the Harley dealers will tell you it is normal when it is not. They will not fix the problem. I have met other riders with the same problem and the same bad results. My brand new Harley failed at just 3,000 miles. I traded it in for another new Harley and the crank slipped on that one too! Those were my last Harley-Davidson's. Two strikes on two brand new Twin-Cam engine bikes was enough for me. I switched to Kawasaki Vulcan 2000 with a 125 cubic inch V-twin and later to the Victory 106ci V-twin which is a superior designed and reliable motor, but dealership qualifications to perform warranty work I found, in my case, was not up to industry standards. That is a big problem if the bike you buy can't be fixed quickly, reliably and professionally. You will find this problem throughout the "power sports" industry, so beware.
13. You will notice modern motorcycle engine design eliminates the inner and outer primary case the Harley-Davidson Twin-Cam engine uses. It is an old design full of flaws and weaknesses using a sloppy chain to connect the engine to clutch and transmission. It is a source of problems mostly regarding oil leaks from the outer and inner primary gasket and seals for the crankshaft, transmission countershaft and starter motor. It is not cheap to fix these oil leaks. And to makes matters even worse that this entire primary chain case system must completely disassembled to change a drive belt, pulley or chain sprocket. Ask around for a price to do these jobs and it will open your eyes a bit wider. Your drive belt will need replacing one day and you will have to pay a dear price due to this outdated, unfriendly engine design. Of course, if you learn to do it yourself it will only cost you time (a lot of time) and parts. Most riders do not know how to do it. For example if you look at the Victory Freedom 106ci V-twin engine none of these problems are evident. You can change a drive belt and pulleys yourself. There will be no oil leaks from seals and there is only one simple gasket for the primary system. No chains for it is totally gear driven primary system and it uses the engine oil, not a special primary case oil. Yes, this engine too has a cam chain but of a totally different design. A proven reliable design using long cam chain guides like modern car and motorcycle engines use. If the cam chain guide wears out it will not self-destruct the engine. But you have to drop the engine out of the frame to overhaul the rear cylinder whereas a Harley can be performed in the frame.
>>14086090
oh its the same assmad americucko from yesterday
harleys are fucking garbage,, why would I b mad abouit the fact that I dont own a piece of literal garbage?
>>14086091
"Roland Sands makes a see-through Clarity design cam plate timing cover so you can visually inspect at least the outer cam chain shoes. Go to RolandSands.com"
14. Harley-Davidson's generally require an oil change each 2,500 miles (newer models 5,000 miles). And it requires that three oil compartments be drained and filled each with different types of oil; engine oil, primary case and transmission oil. I wrote a book showing you how to do it. How to Change the Oil in Your Twin-Cam Harley-Davidson You will notice it only takes ten minutes to change the oil on a modern motorcycle like the Victory and it only has to be changed each 5,000 miles. So, oil changing on a Harley will cost you twice as much as other engine designs.
>>14086112
"Most riders are absolutely totally ignorant of the problems they are soon to face with their rides."
15. I like Harley-Davidson motorcycles. I appreciate the awesome look, the sound and the comfort they give along with every conceivable custom option and aftermarket item you can buy for the bike. But what stopped me from buying Harley-Davidson again and again is the Twin-Cam engine and other problems mentioned in this article. And I did not like the low trade-in value they gave me on my Harley's. They don't hold their value like they used to simply because everybody seems to own a Harley these days. Since then I have bought four new motorcycles and not one is a Twin-Cam Harley. They need to fix these numerous defect problems before I buy again. However, I did buy a new 2012 Sportster 1200 Custom as these bikes have zero defects. They may wear out, but they don't break down like those Twin-Cam engines.
>>14086103
Enjoy being poor and thinking you know who I am kid ;)
Stay mad poorfag
>>14086122
16. Transmission trouble? Yes, there is a problem with the transmission 5th gear. As the 88 twin cam engine evolved to the 96 cubic inch a strain developed on the gears. In the year 2007 the inner bearing race was upgraded due to bearing failure. In the year 2010 the fifth gear was changed to a reverse-helical gear to neutralize the side load on the bearing. What does this mean to the average rider? It means if you hop up the engine on any twin-cam engine you risk a major transmission failure. So, you need to purchase and install a fifth gear and bearing/shaft update kit if you ride the bike hard (which many riders do). The race on the shaft can move, which lets the seal leak and the bearing walk/wobble more than it should accelerating wear and fail. Some riders have found this bearing failure twice in 40,000 miles. Mostly hard-ridden stock 88 and 96 will fail along with those with souped-up engines (pistons, cams including crankshaft long-stroked engines). But the new 103 cubic inch twin cam are not immune to transmission failure even though they have the updated kit installed at the factory. Read item #17 below explains the reasons.
>>14086128
Just curious, what kind of bike do you ride?
![Exclusive_152605_794145[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/a3oN9Ox.jpg "Exclusive_152605_794145[1].jpg")
>>14086127
>you are mad and poor because you cant afford shit
kek
pic related
"When installing cam gears tell your mechanic to make sure to get a .005" lash on the S&S brand gear's clearance so there will be no whining or rattling noises."
17. Overheating: Harley-Davidson engines run hot. The 88 cubic inch engine ran hot and at the high limits and the 96 cubic inch engine runs hotter yet which is not good for the engine. The 110 cubic inch engines run exceedingly hotter and so much so a class-action law suit was filed against Harley-Davidson from riders being burned from the engine heat (mostly from the rear cylinder near the rider's thighs). Heat burns to the skin is not the only problem as heat is an engine killer and the hotter these big air-cooled V-twins run reliability falls drastically. Don't expect engine longevity with a 103 or 110 or 113+ cubic inch air-cooled V-twin such as the Harley-Davidson design. Clean synthetic engine oil and a large external engine oil cooler is a must-have accessory, but it only helps engine cooling and not cure these serious excessive heat problems that self-destructs the engine.
>>14086139
18. The Harley-Davidson engine looks nice with all the chrome, but if you really look good you will notice the engine design is so archaic it is truly a problem to behold for there are way too many moving parts inside the engine and in the primary case to wear out and break down. The transmission is small in size and that means smaller, weaker shafts, bearings and gears are inside. Way too many moving parts each over-stressed! This is why you see so many in shops being repaired and broken down on the side of the road being towed back to the dealers. The engines also run very hot when stock and even hotter when the engine is "hopped-up" and this old engine design just can't tolerate all of that heat. Oil coolers will help, but will not shed enough heat to stop engine damage from excessive wear. Even full synthetic oil won't stop the wear due to hot spots in the engine. Even replacing a drive belt will cause you grief even if you do it yourself for it will take you hours of labor. It will be expensive for a shop to replace your drive belt. And with the cam followers going to bite you and blow up your engine you need to consider replacing those followers often like every 20,000 miles (30,000 miles if you have the newer hydraulic followers). But they can even fail quicker in some cases. The 103 cubic inch will evolve into even higher 110 and 113+ cubic inch engines that will create even higher stresses and heat and reliability is going to suffer even more. The way I see it, I will not buy a new Harley-Davidson Twin-Cam engine due to all these defects.
>>14086138
a cb400
>>14086149
"Don't even do a Stage-1 tune up on a Twin-Cam engine of any size. The extra power and heat generated will absolutely wear down your engine into oblivion."
A good example is to see what Harley-Davidson should have done by redesigning their Twin-Cam engine is to look at a cut-away view of the Victory and the new Indian motorcycle engine. They have all the modern materials and racing valve gear, etc. Less moving parts and much stronger parts to boot. There are limits to the power output of any engine design and Harley-Davidson is tinkering with the Twin-Cam engine to stroke and bore it out to create an engine that just is overpowered for its design. What happens? You have a hot engine that self-destructs even under normal running conditions. Even water cooling a Twin-Cam engine with restrictive water channels will help, but it will not alleviate the inherent overheating problem in the newer big-inch engines.
Nobody wants to admit it because there is a lot of money repair shops and dealers and after market firms are making hot-rodding these Twin-Cam engines and people are falling for it and paying the price of engine failures. Just take a look inside the repair shops and you'll see these repair bays are full of broken down Twin-Cam engines. Yes, even brand new engines!
>>14086156
"Most riders put on an aftermarket air cleaner and exhaust pipes and dyno-tune it not knowing this will damage their engine's longevity because the Twin-Cam engine is inherently unstable, weak in material strength and naturally runs exceedingly hot. If you don't ride it hard you may get lucky."
You deserve to know the truth about the Harley-Davidson motorcycle. Just because you see a lot of them on the road, especially at motorcycle rallies, most riders are absolutely totally ignorant of the problems they are soon to face with their rides. I learned the hard way too. I had a new Harley engine crankshaft go out of balance in just 6,000 miles... a brand new motorcycle! I have seen others suffer the same fate and dealers tell people, "Harley's vibrate. It's normal."
>>14086149
That's it huh? All the smack talk I thought you'd at least have a 1000cc or more
>>14086160
19. I have seen with my own eyes nightmare stories of customers in tears at repair shops and dealerships paying dearly for shoddy workmanship. The mechanic ruins the engine and the customer pays for it. This is why I wrote the book, How To Change the Oil on Your Twin Cam Harley-Davidson Motorcycle which also covers spark plug and air cleaner service intervals. This book will give you tips on how to prevent engine damage. You will save a lot of money and service will be done right because you did the job yourself.
>>14086165
still better than any harley
20. The Twin-Cam engine between the years 1999-206 has a very weak oil pump that actually drops oil pressure near "zero" when idling which accelerates internal engine wear. You can shim the pressure relief valve to gain more pressure, but this is still not a cure as those chain followers wear (as yours are wearing as you ride your bike) the follower debris slowly blocks or destroys the oil pump and the engine will be horribly ruined without notice catching you by surprise. One day all is well, the next day be prepared to buy a new remanufactured engine. Don't you trust the warranty you have will cover this failure as it likely will not and you will be stuck with the bill. How can this be? Excuses are many and are you having these followers inspected each year? Probably not and that is just one loophole that will be used to deny your warranty claim. There is a fix for the marginal oil pump, but you have to buy an aftermarket cam-support plate. On late 96'ci engines it will permit you to fit "real" bearings on the outer camshaft journals, where the factory plate has none, and in the earlier engines it will allow you to install a better, late-model oil pump. The replacement plate is stronger with no flexing. But remember, as long as you have cam chains and tiny followers pressing on those chains your engine will eventually fail catastrophically unless you solve this problem or are "very vigilant" with frequent inspections. Those inspections are expensive and most Harley-Davidson riders are not aware of the problem in the first place to bother asking or performing these visual inspections.
>>14086183
Nah m8. Vrod is bad ass.
I've seen a lot of shitposting in these threads, but I've never seen this caliber before. This is literally the worst thread I've ever seen.
>>14086183
21. Harley-Davidson motorcycles are huge lumbering beasts that are unstable to ride and tend to slide sideways and fall down when the brakes are applied, mostly the rear brake. They have balance and suspension problems. You have to fight the motorcycle constantly on mountain roads and even on the freeway. It wanders and floats and most riders just think this is normal and for a Harley-Davidson and it is. When you hop on other brands of motorcycles you will see a world of difference in handling. You no longer have to keep inputting steering corrections and fight with the motorcycle to stay on course.
>>14086198
The best part is the chick talking shit about Harleys only rides a cb400.
That's pretty embarrassing
