![teslamodelsk[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/z6zSsmm.jpg "teslamodelsk[1].jpg")
Why aren't more automaker specializing in electric vehicles? They're better than ICE in every way, the demand is huge, yet virtually all new cars are still using old gas engines.
What gives?
>>15131653
>Electric cars are still too expensive
>The infrastructure for cars favors guzzoline
>The range of e-cars is not practical for long distance driving
>fully charging an e-car takes several hours vs a few minutes refueling a petrol car.
Ideally e-cars today are made for people who live in cities (or have a short commute to/from one) and have enough income to buy the car and have a secure place to charge the battery. While it's possible to make long distance drives, it takes forever.
>>15131761
99% of ppl don't drive "long distances" and you can plug it in at home.
Whatever big oil is paying you, it's too much.
>>15131983
I would confidently say over 50% of people take their cars out of state.
>>15132009
Most of those would do fine renting a car once or twice a year. Why would you buy a car based on the occasional road trip?
>>15132024
why is americas biggest selling vehicle the f150 when most people aren't "hauling" much more than a lunchbox and suitcase most of the time
>>15131983
>As far as charging, it still requires installation of dedicated charging port in your garage unless you wanna take 9000 hours to recharge car off a regular wall outlet
>For most car makers, they would not see a meaningful return on investment at this point for the money spent to R&D a full electric car.
>In the US 80% of buyers take a trip of more than 50 miles at least once a week, you also have HUGE rural areas where people are driving an hour or more just to get to a grocery store/wal-mart
Really to sum up, there is a very limited market for them in MOST of the US, it's not a profitable venture for most automakers, you have added cost to put in a fast charge station at your house, you actually DO have tons of people regularly driving beyond the range of most affordable electric cars
Remember, a Volt is only 53 miles range on battery only. Leaf is about 100. Focus electric is 76. I live in the Raleigh-Durham area of NC. You couldn't even make it to Greensboro and back on one charge in any of those cars, much less the beach, mountains, Charlotte, or any other place i regularly visit that isn't right in the RDU metro area.
>>15131653
Maybe because the battery costs half the price of the car to replace?
Maybe because global warming is a hoax you libcuck?
>>15131653
electric motors are older than the current petrol ICE, you're so outdated gramps.
>>15131761
>petrol
It's gas. G-A-S. As in "gasoline", not "petroline".
You and your stupid "tonnes" and "spanners". Go back to eating goats and fucking whores. Or was it eating whores and fucking goats, I can't remember. Stupid inbred island bastards.
>>15132056
Installing a charging port is easy and cheap. $10 fill-ups.
nice opinion
batteries have 300mi range.
90% of the people driving today could switch to a LEAF or a Model 3. They would only have difficulty a few days a year. When they might have to allot more time for fast charging or rent a gasoline car.
>>15132249
What outside a Tesla has a 300 mile range?
>>15132075
This. Get that mid to late 1800s shit out of here.
>>15132249
Keep riding the bus
>the demand is huge
Is that why taxpayers have to help purchase each one?
>>15132321
no. you get to reduce your own tax burden in exchange for buying one.
the money you didn't give in taxes, or spend on gas. stays in your local economy or is properly invested. that dollar spent on gas leaves your local economy(unless you are in an oil area). the dollar not spent on gas stays in the area and is rolled over and tax 14 times over.
>>15131653
heavy battery's
charging a battery faster than you discharge it will cause damage or waste
spindle overheating because model s and 3 a shit
this is a flawed product that might just scam enough funds to fix the problems by 4th gen
>>15132371
You won't see any of those "savings" since you bought an $80,000 car
>>15132411
Think of it like donating to charities, anon. Except you get a car from the charity.
Do you really think most richfags donate out of kindness? It's simply to get into the next lowest tax bracket. It's all a government sham really.
>>15132411
This is always what it comes down to
>Buy new Tesla for £70,000
>Spend £4 a week on electricity
or
>Buy used petrol car for £500
>Spend £60 a week on petrol
>Takes 1158 months (96 years) to break even compared to model S
>>15132423
>It's all a government sham really
So why do you think the government is throwing money at Tesla and giving tax incentives?
>>15132433
Sorry, that's 1158 weeks, or 22 years to break even
>>15132411
model 3 est $35k
If you subtract the purchase price from fuel costs saved, the car is essentially free.
>>15132439
I wasn't that guy, I know Tesla is accepting literal billions in US Federal funding.
And yet it's still failing. Because electric cars can't compete in the market, yet.
That's what happens when government mixes with business.
>>15132450
>after taxpayers help out with $5 grand
>>15132450
>Gallon of gas is $2.22 (average)
>Shitbox Civic is $2000
>Shitbox civic gets 33mpg
>$33,000 difference
>14864 gallons of gas
>Need to drive your shitbox civic 490512 miles before Tesla becomes cheaper
>>15132466
>a $40k msrp would change everything
>electric karz r imposible!!
>>15132433
compare to a S Class or a 7 Series.
Which get 10/20 mpg.
>>15132476
godly 0rpm lightning bolts tho
>>15132466
tax payers aren't helping with shit. the government is letting you keep some of your own damn money.
>>15132371
>that dollar spent on gas leaves your local economy
Absolutely false. Federal, state, and local taxes on a gallon of gas are in the neighborhood of being 3x higher than the profits oil companies make on it, not to mention the money that goes to the gas station owners, regional/local distributors, their employees, all the taxes that those businesses and employees pay and all the stuff that they buy locally using that money.
>>15132496
Cheapest S class on Autotrader is this
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201312060380903
>£1500
>35.5MPG combined
>Diesel is £1.15/L
>Tesla Model S is £70,000
>£68,500 is 59565 liters (13236 Brit gallons) of diesel
>Would need to drive 469,903 miles before Tesla is cheaper
Too many Tesla circlejerkers on /o/ lately. I used to own one and can tell you that they're overhyped.
>>15132532
You forgot to include the $10k monthly repair bill on used German luxoships
>>15132450
>fuel costs saved
given that the model S has the Altima's interior quality, the 3 will have a Ford Focus' interior, sans any gauges or buttons. Thus, you could have bought a Ford Focus for the same purpose, except you can drive the Focus cross country. The Focus costs about 15k for a mid-level model off the lot. You get 40 MPG in the 2.0L focus, but we'll go with the average city/hwy, 31. Assuming you buy gas for $4 a gallon, double my current rates, you would have to buy 5000 gallons of gasoline, 155k miles, before it came to the 35k base cost of a Model 3.
Taking the higher insurance premiums, sales tax, and if applicable, property tax of the 3 will skew these results in the Shitbox's favor significantly.
I mean, we're talking about a Model 3. This will be a car specifically designed for people who view cars as an appliance, or a fashion statement. A Corolla or Focus would serve that first purpose nicely.
Hell, get a fuckin' Prius for your fashion statement:
Prius: 25k, 54/50 mileage, avg 52. 130k miles assuming my balls-high $4/gal price before the Tesla becomes even remotely close.
spending extra money on fuel savings NEVER works. Not for Diesels (with the exception of constant towing), not really for hybrids, and certainly not for Apple-y cars such as the Tesla.
>>15132521
gas stations get basically nothing from the sale of gasoline.
>>15132548
Still cheaper than a Tesla for at least 5 years, by which point it'll be worn out completely and need updated as mandatory firmware bricks your ECU
>>15132556
>spending 5yrs in a $1500 shitbox or spend the same on a new luxury car
math works out
>>15132562
>S class
>Shitbox
>>15132548
Teslas are expensive to maintain as well but they're trying to hide it for the time being with extensive warranty service.
>>15131653
>better than ICE
>no gearboxes ever - "you never needed to go faster than 60mph anyways, the engine alone is good enuff"
>shit range, still
>battery tech kills the environment faster than an ICE with a cat
>charging might be even worse depending on your local power source
>batteries are consumables
>ev damage control: "uh uh uh it's a city car just buy a real car, i mean, evil gas guzzler, if you want to go anywhere but work"
>>15132568
This. The reason I traded mine in was because it was getting annoying having it recalled every other week.
>>15132564
>$1500 sclass
>not shitbox
>>15132593
>£1500 = $2500
It's better than whatever you drive buddy
>>15132568
my LEAF has been maintenance free, besides tire rotation, brake pads, and a once a year battery test.
>>15132614
Yeah, but a leaf is essentially an electric Mirca on a slightly larger platform, it's not exactly a good car
>>15132614
Honestly feel bad for the Leaf.
>nissan needed no government bailout
>developed it out of free will
>better priced for the middle class
But Musk is the modern Steve Jobs where he can control millions of drones by using Twitter.
>>15132554
They get a little bit, not much though you're right on that point. Selling gas brings in lots of customers that they'd otherwise not have though. It depends on the area really; gas stations along the interstate in the middle of nowhere would completely die off if people didn't have to stop there to buy gas on their trip while neighborhood gas stations that mostly sell products to people who nearby would probably be alright.
>>15132597
Oh, you mean a $2500 s class? That's a huge leap up from a $1500 example. At that price you can be assured that it's low mileage pristine condition and up to date on maintenance and service. I thought you were talking about a $1500 farted in sclass. Thanks for clearing that up captain bus.
>>15132643
Even factoring in repair costs (and really it isn't that high of a mileage, its barely broken in at 130K) it'll be orders of magnitude cheaper than a model S
>>15132622
I disagree. The LEAF is a great car. Cost practically nothing to operate. Comfy for the price segment interior Handles ok because low center of gravity. Gets up and goes thanks to torks. I drive it 70 miles every day and make 120-180 mile trips a few times a month.
the added bonus of not paying tolls for HOT lanes and single occupant HOV lane use. this really cuts down my commute times.
>>15132577
>no gearboxes ever
what do they have ?
far as I can tell it has a reduction gear going to an open differential
I wonder why they don't have a centrifugal clutch in there for a second ratio
or another set of windings on the motor for high speed
>>15132650
I believe you
>>15132679
>Muh magic tesla will never ever break down and it'll be cheap to fix if it does
>>15132676
Tesla tried a 2 speed box. the ones small and light enough were too fragile.
so they wound the motor and geared it for a acceleration demons that run out of steam around 85 mph. while still having a 240 -300 mile range.
>>15132650
>all that shit you just said
Are you on fuckin' sherm right now?
>>15132679
We haven't even gotten to the $3,000 DLC to unlock your battery Tesla plans on rolling out.
>>15132688
Tesla has excellent warranty. They can repair a lot of stuff through remote. Can send a technician to fix it on the spot. Will send a flatbed with a loaner to replace your broken one.
Anything is better than being a slave to the oil Jew. I'm willing to give up the ghost of sikk skids and mad power to be rid of it
>>15132696
Mercedes diesel engines are famously tough, and can handle 500,000+ miles without any major work. the suspension would be the biggest worry, but air suspension is a pain on anything
>>15132703
How long is the warranty? Cause I can promise you $1000 charges for an indian to reset the ECU once it's run out
>>15132694
There's no reason a road car should ever go past 80mph, ever.
>>15132694
seems they do have to work with what they have and walk a fine line
only the after market would dare make a no expense spared build
at lest for now
>>15132711
go back to Bongistan.
>tfw 85mph highways
>>15132711
Here's the reason:
Your road designers are not incompetent assholes and your driver licensing system doesn't allow a large volume of incompetent assholes enter and remain in the road system because "muh freedom", so your long distance travelers can go faster than 60mph without crashing into a dipshit crossover mom going 20 under in the left lane or getting rammed by a hoon who got licensed in a camry and went straight out to buy a mustang afterwards.
>>15132711
>he's never been to LA
>>15132731
>being in a rush to die
>>15132759
Looks like he's just running over pedestrians in that photo. Those dumbasses shouldn't have been in the road if they didn't want to get run over, jaywalking is a crime you know.
>>15132237
Amerifag spotted
>mfw only North Americans say aloominum
>mfw gas/gasoline is an American only term
>mfw only North Americans and 3rd world shitholes still Farenheight and in general avoid metric
>mfw you even made up your own measurement of a gallon
>mfw you can't even spell colour
>>15132703
They never did that with mine.
>>15132759
>build safer cars
>build safer roads
>control traffic density by providing better public transport than rusty greyhounds and granting fewer licenses
>problem solved
>>15132773
"Color" is the correct spelling, you norman bastard.
>>15132773
Aluminum is how it spelled and pronounced, by the man who discovered and named the element.
Aluminium is wrong.
Gasoline has been in use to describe petroleum and petroleum products well before "petrol". Petrol was coined by the French, THE FRENCH.
>>15132759
Literally the most retarded point against raised speed limits I've ever seen in my life.
>>15132237
>I have never watched Mad Max.
>>15132501
And then they go to a track. And a 70's carbied Datsun beats the Tesla...
>>15132938
That drag time is only good one time on a fully charged battery too.
>>15132024
>Spend a few hundred bucks to rent a car to road trip and pay oit the ass for "coverage" or hope a grain of sand doesnt make an indentation in the clear coat on the molecular level otherwise you're buying Hertz a complete sand and spray for that 2004 Malibu and god fucking help you if you bring it back with pint less gas than you got it unless you like paying 99999% markup on your gasoline
>Oooooor
>Just take the $40000 car you're already fucking paying for monthly
Yeah totally 10/10 best idea. Fucking retard.
>>15132893
>I cannot read and understand that he in fact did not insult the word guzzoline from mad Max but insulted the usage of the word petrol from Europe
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/ouch-first-huge-repair-bill.70396/
Tesla is walking down the path of German automakers, where the products become undesirable after the warranty expired.
>$45K for full battery pack replacement
>$8500 for brake replacement
>>15133289
That's what happens when you make a car an appliance that's obsolete as soon as the new one comes out and doesn't have user maintenance in mind.
>>15132513
>Tesla accepted 5.6 billion in federal funding last year alone
>tax payers aren't helping with shit
>>15132773
>>15132893
>being this triggered
>>15131983
>99% of ppl don't drive "long distances"
Well you certainly don't live in the US then
God Teslashills are everywhere.
>yfw an electric car can't even do a few laps at Hitlerring
>>15133289
Actually, German repair prices have become normal because Tesla is so rubbish.
>>15132548
And the residual value of £0 at the end of the battery's warranty.
>>15132632
I can't wait until Chevy finally kills off Tesla with the Bolt.
>it's a crossover
>families actually want crossovers these days, especially in yurop
>the interior isn't spartan and looks good
>it'll be released this year
>realistic production targets
meanwhile at Tesla
>it's a sedan
>sedans don't sell in yurop
>spartan interior, looks really cheap
>it'll be released next year, Tesla's reputation knowing it'll probably end up being delayed into 2018
>Tesla's reputation for 'quality', or whatever that's supposed to mean in Fremont
>Tesla still can't get enough production capacity
Yet somehow the Tesla is considered the better car. Again, I can't wait until reality comes short of expectation and Tesla going bankrupt because of a huge-ass recall.
>>15131653
>better in every way
>has shit range
>so much shit range than Elon Musk drives a 3 series
>charging takes forever
>specialized superchargers are still slow
>still burns carbon somewhere else
>doesnt exactly "produce" it's own power but stores power made somewhere else into batteries
>software in your car telling you how much battery to use
>10 year life on batteries
no OP
Until innovation in electric (or something else, who knows maybe nuclear power!) vehicles becomes necessarily superior to oil-derivative powered vehicles, nothing will change. No government funding or tax rebates will ever change that.
The technology simply isn't there yet.
>>15131653
>They're better than ICE in every way,
Wrong. The limitations of the technology currently available are significant. It will be at least 15 years before they are truly better in every way.
>>15132049
insurance, maintenance and registration
driving one car at a time, it still costs twice as much to own two vehicles.
joke is, it's still more environmentally friendly to own a gas motorcycle instead of a fucking ridiculous 1 tonne tesla shit.
if electric shits cared about the environment we would be back to the sinclair C5 only it would work now because we have cheap lithium cells instead of the 6km range that the 20kg of SLAs offered, CVTs and better more efficient electric motors.
>>15134813
Just imagine if everyone rode bikes
IIHS would find a way to make them fat as fuck and caged for "crash test reliability"
>>15134792
>battery life
>kwh capacity
>weight
>improved in 15 years
not likely, hybrids on E85 and diesel with toroidal CVTs are more likely to take over than all electric.
I mean the overpriced BMW i8 is already miles better than the M3.
What this means is the death of N/A but also the death of turbolag. expect 650cc econoboxes with shitloads of torque and 200hp forced induction power at 6500rpm with no lag and instant torque in your bear future.
>>15134827
>E85
A complete dead end failure. E85 can't compete with gasoline without subsidies and even then is still a failure.
>>15134836
Brazil will most likely start exporting alot of E85, same with mexico and other countries.
The US is a weird place when it comes to alcohol addatives since you can keep your cars forever there.
Unless new cars have fuel flex to be sold in the US and the government GTFOs the picture so people other than corn farmers can start making alcohol out of algae then it would be a rough start there. Elsewhere they have been running E90 like fuels since the 90s
>>15134847
>Elsewhere they have been running E90 like fuels since the 90s
What? Show me where they've been running 90% ethanol, 10% gasoline fuel for the past 30 years. I'll wait.
>>15132009
I would confidently say you're wrong.
>>15134847
Well the problem with the E85 subsidies in America is the corn itself. It leads to an overabundance of corn, which feeds the use of corn syrup and other corn related food "products", and the environmental effects of needing to protect that corn are disastrous. There's a shitload of runoff that goes straight to the Mississippi Delta and adds to the Gulf of Mexico Dead Zone. Not good.
There are likely much better uses for the land there than making truckloads of corn but if the farmers get paid by the government for making corn for E85 why would they farm anything else?
It's going to be interesting seeing how alternative fuels evolve alongside gasoline in the next decades.
>>15133289
replacement batteries for the S are fixed at 10k for the 60kwh and 12k for the 85 kwh. That is of course after the the 8 year battery warranty has expired. while the warranty is still on the battery, Tesla pays to replace it.
>>15132450
>because everyone has $35,000 to spend on a car
A $5,000 well-maintained ICE car will run for years.
>>15134866
the real hilarity of corn ethanol?
all the petrochemcial products needed to grow it.
>pesticides
>herbacides
>fungicides
>diesel
>synthetic fertilizers
then the dangers of it all.
>killing bees and other pollinators.
>monocropping which leaves us vulnerable to one disease wiping out entire harvests for a year or two.
>use of GMO seeds. which is just bad for everyone but the GMO seed producer.
>>15132554
I work at quiktrip. We lose money on gas.
>>15134906
Ethanol production from corn is also a hilariously inefficient process compared to using crops like sugar cane.
Sugar cane won't grow well in most parts of the US but I'd imagine that using sugar beets to produce ethanol would be a huge improvement in efficiency compared to using corn at least.
>>15131653
>They're better than ICE in every way
exept in all objective regards. get your pop-sci hype products out of /o/.
>>15134878
hell I paid 2k for my shitbox 10 years ago and it's still running fine at 200k miles. now it's 16 years old, a tesla battery will last 10 years at best.
>>15134925
Sugar is an absolutely fucked product in America. We've got the most retarded trade protection (tariffs and regulations on imports), on cane sugar, which can be produced very cheaply by our neighbors, to keep the American sugar industry alive. Even with NAFTA, the American sugar producers can claim anti-competition bullshit.
It costs billions of dollars each year for a few million dollars return toward the industry and a meager amount of jobs as well as higher sugar prices. They account for almost 40% of all farm lobbying. It's disgusting.
We are a nation of double standards. Preach free market everywhere else and regulate the hell out of the market at home while engaging in special interests. Unfortunately this happens in the auto industry as well as you probably know. They use patriotism as a backdrop for the legislation but it's pure horseshit.
>>15134859
huh, i guess that highschool textbook was full of shit.
they were running E100 since the 70s however.
>>15134866
>>15134906
yea, that's a huge issue in the US, almost the same as sugar cane in Brazil in the 90s till the market share went over 70% alcohol fuel cars.
Honestly private businesses should join in and start making their own ethanol, government should stop subsidizing corn ffs
>>15132237
Only americans are retarded enough to call a liquid "gas".
>>15131653
>>15135463
proof that every car is better if it's Twingo happy
>>15132237
>>15132773
>>15132893
>>15135421
This shit is funnier without flags
>>15135421
"petrol" and "gas" are both shortenings of more proper terms. "Petroleum" refers to crude oil, "Gasoline" refers to specifically the automotive fuel. Strictly speaking, "Gas" is more specific, if more confusing.
>>15132439
so they can get the treehugger vote. the administration is dead set on 'MUH ENVIRONMENT" which has evolved from a purely concern driven well meaning ideal into a political point that sells people on Democrat candidates
>>15135545
"think of the children"
apply to gun law, EPA law, auto safety law
easiest way to get anything passed
>>15131653
They don't make the battery the most expensive part, a customer is going to give you $30,000 for a car but you only really get $20,000 cause $10,000 goes to the company that makes the battery.
Fuck it just keep selling ICE till price points on batteries come down, OR patents expire
https://transportevolved.com/2015/03/04/nimh-batteries-could-yet-again-power-electric-cars-says-basf-thanks-to-ten-fold-increase-in-energy-density/
>>15135680
Also look at all the maintenance money they would lose.
>>15132237
it's actually called Benzin
>>15132439
they're incompetent
>>15132237
>being this mad
![CR-Cars-II-2018-Tesla-Model-3-silver-pr-4-16[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KRXoQ6D.jpg "CR-Cars-II-2018-Tesla-Model-3-silver-pr-4-16[1].jpg")
>>15131653
Soon.
>>15137086
>>15137086
the front looks so... snooty.
>I have to share a road with these... commoners?
>>15137086
it would already be out if Tesla wasn't ambitious about the new toys they put in the X and the refreshed S.
>>15137086
Is it just me or does it look like a Mazda 3 but you know, ugly especially that front grille.
>>15131983
>99% of ppl don't drive "long distances"
At some point or another, most people will.
>>15134873
>8 year warranty
Tesla will be gone well before then. You'll be double fucked if your battery dies.
>>15139843
At some point or another I'm going to Costa Rica, guess I should buy a plane.
