/classical/
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Old meme edition.
Post old meme performers in old meme sound.
>inb4 how do I into classical?
https://mega.co.nz/#F!mMYGhBgY!Ee_a6DJvLJRGej-9GBqi0A
https://mega.co.nz/#F!lIh3GRpY!piUs-QdhZACFt2hGtX39Rw
https://mega.co.nz/#F!Y8pXlJ7L!RzSeyGemu6QdvYzlfKs67w
https://mega.co.nz/#F!kMpkFSzL!diCUavpSn9B-pr-MfKnKdA
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ekBFiCLD!spgz8Ij5G0SRH2JjXpnjLg
https://mega.co.nz/#F!4EVlnJrB!PRjPFC0vB2UT1vrBHAlHlw
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ygImCRjS!1C9L77tCcZGQRF6UVXa-dA
https://mega.co.nz/#F!il5yBShJ!WPT0v8GwCAFdOaTYOLDA1g
https://mega.co.nz/#F!DdJWUBBK!BeGdGaiAqdLy9SBZjCHjCw
http://crudblud.sjm.so/
>>66435244
meme meme meme
maybe try something else for a change?
nope! more "memes" xD
>>66435387
You seem upset.
Have some music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVcfTzw9BRo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOeh9DaYVo0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGsEYaKsb60
>>66435244
classical newfag here, want to get more into it, so I really appreciate the links. Thank you!
However, I also have a question: One of the main reasons that I was scared away from classical as a genre and more attracted to other ones when I was getting more into music as a whole was that more "modern" genres have the luxury of being very simply packaged. If I want to listen to the work of a single artist or band, I can find the music with their name on it, and there will be only one "real" version of their work.
However, with classical, there aren't any pre-existing recordings done by the musicians of the time with the direction of the person who composed them. We can have many different renditions of the same piece of music, and I don't know if the orchestra that happened to play the piece that I want to listen to did it justice.
Is this really a problem? Or, is it that there really isn't that much leeway in how a piece is played and I can not worry about it too much?
>>66435604
>However, with classical, there aren't any pre-existing recordings done by the musicians of the time with the direction of the person who composed them.
steve reich.
>Is this really a problem?
Performers know more about performance than composers do.
>>66435604
>there aren't any pre-existing recordings done by the musicians of the time with the direction of the person who composed them
There are some, like a few living composers performing their own works and some historic recordings like pic.
>Is this really a problem?
No, all it means is that you're gonna have to listen to a few different interpretations until you find a few you like, keeping in mind the music can be interpreted very differently person to person.
Like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKHyDwAJQws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5MFrX8yWhs
>>66435692
>>66435772
You two are absolutely right, when I wrote that it didn't even occur to me that there are people making classical music now
>>66435692
>Performers know more about performance than composers do.
Well sure, I agree. But the person who created the piece of music being preformed has some idea of what they would want it to sound like, right? Most of the comparison I made earlier was that with a genre like, say, rock or electronic music, these people, performer and songwriter are one in the same (barring cases where the lazy hire a team of songwriters, however), whereas classically, these were two different people.
Did these famous composers have much less to do with the performance of their work than I thought?
>>66435244
>Old meme edition.
Oldest meme in existence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbI-oZ0FF78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqPBXnFhIdk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uljhNmG8V5M
>>66435604
>However, with classical, there aren't any pre-existing recordings done by the musicians of the time with the direction of the person who composed them. We can have many different renditions of the same piece of music, and I don't know if the orchestra that happened to play the piece that I want to listen to did it justice.
I get what you mean, it's really a problem to have to go through many recordings to see what you may be missing
>However, with classical, there aren't any pre-existing recordings done by the musicians of the time with the direction of the person who composed them.
As said in this post >>66435692, while composers are usually exceptional interpreters on their instruments or even as directors, sometimes there's "genius" or virtuoso conductors who are able to get much more from the orchestras than the composers themselves
A notable example can be Stravinsky, he himself as an old man made many recordings of his own works as a conductor (with the help of other conductors, like Robert Craft), and these performances are far from definitive, even from his point of view
That's why many composers of the recording era don't even bother to conduct their own works
>Is this really a problem? Or, is it that there really isn't that much leeway in how a piece is played and I can not worry about it too much?
Yes, you should know who are the better directors of some pieces
I would advice you to stay away in general from Karajan and Bernstein, since they recorded a lot of music and their performances can either not get the depth of the music across, and be exaggerated or both.
I would also advice you to not fall into the "old shitty sounding recordings are better" meme. While there has been changes through time in the usage of different techniques and instruments, there's still have been many performers in the last decades who can do justice to most composers.
>>66436383
>I would also advice you to not fall into the "old shitty sounding recordings are better" meme. While there has been changes through time in the usage of different techniques and instruments, there's still have been many performers in the last decades who can do justice to most composers.
To expand on this, there's many recordings from the 50s in good sound. And many times these performances are better than the ones that came after, since there were a lot of great conductors of those times. But you should almost never stick to a bad sounding recording and fetishize them, as it is the case with some people. If it sounds bad, drop it, until you can make a case that it's the only option you have.
The only shitty sounding recording I listen to is Fricsay's Mozart Requiem because there's really no other that pierces through the music like this one for me.
>>66436000
Many of the great composers were also great composers, so they probably had as much to do than you thought.
>>66436637
>Many of the great composers were also great composers
Many of the great composers were also great *performers
woops
Why are modern and contemporary classical so atrociously bad?
>>66436909
cuz you're a pleb
>>66436909
Because serialism
>>66436909
Probably because you haven't heard any of the good stuff, either that or you're of the mindset that only tonal music is good.
>>66436000
The thing is that popular music (rock, electronic music etc.) doesn't have a score that tells the performer EXACTLY what to do. That's how composers communicate. They write scores. The scores will (usually) be honed during their lifetime to consistently produce correct performances. That way when they die their music lives on forever in its original state, provided they included enough information and the instruments they wrote for are still around, and no one in the future had too many stupid ideas.
As long as you have a good score with plenty of information, you can get a pretty accurate rendition of the piece of music. All the notes and rhythms are there, often the speed/tempo is there too (in modern times we even get precise tempo markings) its just the small details like feeling or tempo for older pieces that change, and often conductors will slightly alter dynamics so that certain details stand out where applicable, or that certain notes blend where they should be blending. A good conductor will have a very in-depth understanding of the specific piece being performed, and will (hopefully) attune the ensemble to the composers intentions, based on the composers writings and aesthetic ideas and the information included in the score.
>/his/ is laughing at us again
>>>/his/1418352
>>66435604
also, consider any time you've heard a non-classical album that you thought could have sounded better, even though you liked the composition.
![MTE5NDg0MDU0ODk2NzM5ODU1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/30GEpPu.jpg "MTE5NDg0MDU0ODk2NzM5ODU1[1].jpg")
Best recordings of the Beethoven symphonies?
Compositions for this feel?
>>66438332
this
and fricsay's 9th
>>66438196
they dont mention /mu/ or /classical/ at all in that thread though, and no one is even denouncing classical music.
>>66438856
>this new
>>66435604
Some composers played their own pieces and left recordings: Kurt Weill, Benjamin Britten, John Adams, etc. Some older pieces have specific recordings that are considered the best of the best like Beethoven's 9th by Furtwangler. You just have to browse and try to get a feeling for what is good and what is bad.
>>66438196
Oh no. A bunch of college age commies are laughing at us. Whatever will we do?
>>66438867
Usually when someone posts that image and that text, the thread is at least making fun of /mu/s taste. I've been here for a couple years and that usually the case.
Really an unecessary usage of the crying feelguy image
>>66439277
>млк he's not a communist
>>66439396
name the composer most beloved by plebs
>>66440234
schnittke
>>66435604
>Is this really a problem? Or, is it that there really isn't that much leeway in how a piece is played and I can not worry about it too much?
There is a fucking TON of leeway for performing pieces, I have been turned off of pieces many times by listening to bad recordings the first time I listened to them,
although I have developed the ability to detect whether the piece or the performance is bad generally.
>>66440234
chopin
post musicians with great facial aesthetics
>>66440234
Van Beethoven
Mozart
>>66440270
no
>>66440282
this
>>66440302
>>66440234
Chopin
>>66440234
Hans Zimmer, Ennio Morricone, Rachmaninoff, Philip Glass et cetera.
They can't love beethoven or chopin simply because they can't understand them and their context properly.
>>66435244
Classical is gay and dead grandma.
>>66440302
>>66440431
>mostly made by and enjoyed by straight normies
>still alive and kicking, many new works being written and recorded every year
You opinion makes you look pretty stupid friendo
>>66440405
nah plebs can love chopin and beethoven plenty. Maybe not late beethoven, but early and middle period is literally radioclassical.
>>66440307
Pleb detected
>>66440482
>radioclassical
RYM pls go.
Threadly reminder that Chopin is a master of counterpoint and underrated.
>>66440554
Chopin is shit, deal with it
>>66440576
The only thing shit here is your taste.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPN4gXy834
What do you guys think about Gorecki?
Also I'd be really thankful whether any kind anon has a link for his 3rd symphony.
>>66440760
Nvm the archive's up for some reason and I picked it up there
Also what's your opinion on Colin Stetson's "reimagining"?
>>66440307
>Van Beethoven
Beethoven was Belgian? I never knew that.
>>66440234
>name the composer most beloved by plebs
tchaikovsky and rachmaninov.
>>66440984
his father or grandfather was flemish i think.
>>66440984
Beethoven was actually of African decent.
>>66436909
It's your fault, anon
>>66441135
> Beethoven was actually of African decent.
True
>>66435244
When I first learned about John Cage I thought he was like Duchamp but the more I learn about him the more I think he was just fucking around
Is he really trying to have a substantial message about art/music/etc or was he just a meme master
>>66442045
He was actually pretty good besides that cringey 4'33".
I have no musical training or expertise of any kind. In fact I can say with honesty that I know less about music than anyone in the world.
With that in mind I can't properly articulate in any defined terms what it is I like about Iannis Xenakis. Someone wanna help me out?
>>66442045
He was simply shit
>>66442154
>He was actually pretty good
kek
>>66442248
Meh. I like some of his stuff. To each his own.
>tfw you wonder how many great works languish in obscurity because they lack attribution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ann0pWipZ0I
>>66440576
Fuck you
>tfw Karajan was a bottom
How was the fist night lads? I thought it's pretty gud
I need more MEGA links, drop em here lads
>>66444674
stupid nazi fuck
>>66440234
B*ch
>>66441135
Actually of swampian descent.
>>66440234
chopin
hello phams
does anyone know who was that director that never waived his arms and barely made any body movements or facial expressions? It looked as if he was trying to direct the orchestra by using his mind powers.
What was his name?
>>66445998
Karajan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRGE1MvXkz8
>>66445998
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doJVlS7nn_g
??
>>66440554
Proof!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0RrT6hMOgI
![beckett[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/CI6tCru.jpg "beckett[1].jpg")
>>66440302
How do I look like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWGQ2zAIMGw
this
>>66442045
cage is amazing even though his music isn't the best. What it means that it exists is a lot more important than what it sounds like!
Listen to his conversations with morton feldman on youtube
>>66447335
Get more absurd, fool.
>>66442209
his music is incredibly mathematical. He uses statistics, stochastics(randomness), sieve patterns, golden section relationships etc...so if are attracted to that sort of thing maybe that's why!
>>66436909
>le rong generation
>>66436909
Tonal harmony has a higher place in your parametric hierarchy, therefor it's difficult for you to enjoy a piece of music that is about other things such as intervalic relationships, timbral shifts, rhythmic development etc...
>>66440234
Handel
![img-david-lynch-01-_184117216071.jpg_pyramid1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/GqdIPgq.jpg "img-david-lynch-01-_184117216071.jpg_pyramid1[1].jpg")
>>66447656
I think you may be on to something here
>>66447621
...
>>66447860
think about it for a second.
what i'm saying is that what he did for music is a lot more important than the fact I don't like to listen to his music that often. Some of my favorite composers were super influenced by him, myself included.
>>66447713
>>66437662
>implying pre-contemporary era didn't have atonal music
>implying atonal music wasn't already prominent in the Baroque
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAD6lUivz10
https://youtu.be/Z9DJpaxT7wg?t=103
>>66447671
Haha yeah and that's why Bartok is so good right because he used golden ratio in his music? Haha DAE smarter than everyone else because you understand the irrelevant and unnecessary mathematical references that the composers made in a vain attempt to make their music seem more sophisticated than it actually is?
>>66448332
The concepts that I mentioned are not "references" they are literally the material he used to compose his pieces. I only mentioned it because he asked "I like Xenakis but I don't know why." I'm not saying that's the only reason to like a piece of music.
Like music for what ever reason you want, but someone who likes math/architecture specifically will probably like Xenakis more than someone who doesn't.
>>66448059
>i myself am among my favorite composers
lol classicalfags
>>66448687
it's a troll, don't bother
>>66448687
Fucking retard.
>>66448698
No, I meant I'm influenced by cage not that I'm my favorite composer. Sorry for the unclear grammar.
>>66447580
I listened to it and liked it a lot
but I think it finished way too long after the end
Bump
>>66448275
>Atonal
>Clearly has a key center
>"in B minor"
>"in D major"
maybe you should learn what atonal actually means
>>66450354
>what are modulations
>implying the whole piece having a tonal center means each individual movement must also revolve around that key
Fucking idiot
>>66450337
>old meme fetish
pls stop
>>66450464
lets go deeper
Bump.
Does /classical/ like classical?
>>66451307
>tfw there will never be another company that issues old memes in superb quality, and high-production value booklets, complete with exclusive interviews, never-before-seen photography, etc.
>tfw Andante will never come back
Reminder that the best Chopin can be found in old meme recordings
>>66448275
Holy fuck Sibelius totally ripped off the opening bars of that second piece for symphony 6
>>66451558
>18th century
>classical
who are some unique composers I've likely never heard of?
>>66452939
shostakovich
>>66452939
chopin
>>66452939
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkdJF44hLak
maybe?
>>66453027
>chopin
>unique
>literally became the defining sound of romantic/easy listening music
not anymore he aint.
>>66452939
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kogrT8-nz3A
>>66452939
Mozart
>>66452939
mozart desu
>>66452939
You should try beethoven
>>66453051
Thanks. Very reminiscent of Shostakovich however.
>>66452939
Rautavaara
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFIGoB7rK70
>>66453004
>>66453027
>>66453128
>>66453117
>my life is so worthless I solved a captcha to post this
>>66453239
>implying I don't have a 4chan pass to shitpost freely
>>66453051
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-3EXHqVf7k
take this
don't fell for the "italians only wrote operas" meme
>Best recordings of the Beethoven symphonies?
This album is to classical what Black Saint is to jazz, or Trout Mask is to rock.
Really, if you have any of these albums you don't need to bother with the rest of its genre. There are enough other arts to pursue.
>>66453339
Superior 5th and superior Kleiber coming though
>>66453339
>tfw Carl's unofficial 7th has superior playing, balances, and far better sound quality than the DG release despite it being a live recording
DG audio engineers can be really incompetent I swear. None of Carl's studio recordings sound particularly great. I recall the Brahms 4 having a particularly ugly and harsh glean to it all. His Tristan sounds decent at least, but you can tell they toned down the bottom-end quite a bit. A common characteristic of DG recordings.
>>66453516
Well, I should say that it's a common characteristic of the 60s-80s DG. Some of the their more modern stuff doesn't sound too bad.
>>66453393
>muh old recordings
This memetic disorder is to classical what bebop is to jazz, or rock 'n' roll is to rock.
Really, if you have access to recordings from the golden age of 20th century music (60s-70s) you don't need to bother with the old or new memes. The greatest decade has more than enough to give and keep giving.
>>66453590
>This memetic disorder is to classical what bebop is to jazz
So some of the best?
This random broadcast recording made in Japan from 1967 unironically sounds better than any recording made by DG during the 60s-80s.
>>66453753
snickers is that you
>>66453753
Generally but in these cases the disorder forces one to supplant the best with the second best.
>>66453828
Erich is a genuinely better conductor than Carlos though.
That recording isn't in bad sound either. Maybe if we were talking about their Wagner.
>tfw Karajan made recordings in the 40s that would oust every other recording he would make with the dreaded yellow label in terms of sound alone
DG, were you even trying?
>>66453590
Old recordings have a lot of value in that there are sometimes better performances within them. Take for example from Princess Ida
(1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4t2Zv1Qi6Y
and
(1932)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmi38yLKXJk
Both under Malcolm Sargent, who I say did a better job in '32 because in '65 he was being ridiculously slow. Also George Baker and Derek Oldham were far better singers than Jeffrey Skitch and Phillip Potter.
>>66453964
Happens with a lot of conductors unfortunately. Get old. Get slow. I remember Gielen was making fun of his fellow conductors for this awhile back. Sure enough, he's got quite a bit slower in the past 15 years.
Though some conductors are odd-balls and get faster in some repertoire as they got older.
>>66438321
Furtwangler and/or Josef Krips
>>66453964
Also speaking of operetta, does anybody happen to have the D'Oyly Carte Orpheus in the Underworld? From 1995?
>>66452939
Villa Lobos
>>66454227
>unique
>>66440234
Richard Wagner.
Normies can like Chopin and Mozart, or whatever. That's fine. However, people who claim to be into music, and say they love Wagner (usually metalheads and very stupid people) and think that he's the greatest ever, are the biggest plebs of all every single time.
>>66454365
those people are usually the ones who listen to his 5 minute orchestral excerpts.
low attention span plebs cant sit down and listen to a 4 hour long opera, let alone the entire ring cycle
>>66454365
The metalheadfags are Bach lovers, though. Every god damn video on YouTube, "Hahaha xdddd Bach would be a metal composer today haha"
>>66454479
Only reinforcing the point. Wagner sucks anyway, I can't really be bothered to actually listen to him either.
>>66454365
>Normies
Leave and take your reddit memes with you, normalfag.
>>66454543
it doesn't reinforce your point though since those people aren't fans of Wagner in the first place and likely listen to other radioclassical pieces for the same reason.
>>66454479
His music is good but he cannot write a libretto. If them operas were cut in half and Wotan was in gotterdamerung they'd be pretty swank
>>66454645
>pedantic
How's it hanging autistic, metalhead?
>>66453339
Hopefully bait
>>66440234
chopin, i guess, check the views:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wygy721nzRc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liTSRH4fix4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6NvWeVruY
>>66454647
>radioclassical
I want RYM to leave
>>66454656
his operas largely don't need to be cut if people conduct them right. conductors play his music largely out-of-proportion with his intentions.
the only thing that really needs to be cut are probably the re-cap scenes. you could probably cut a good 30 minutes each off of Die Walkure, Siegfried, and Gotterdammerung by just getting rid of the damn re-cap scenes. at least in Siegfried and Gotterdammerung they're accompanied by great music.
his libretti never particularly bugged me. most of them are badly translated though.
>and Wotan was in gotterdamerung they'd be pretty swank
>>66454695
Only "normies" use that meme. Its been confirmed.
Metal is shit.
>>66454850
>Wagner
The man couldn't think, he couldn't write. There's no discernible bel canto.
>>66454927
Not him but every Italian opera puts me off because of that shit. Not to mention the god awful wailing and vibrato present in Italian opera.
>>66455010
>Puccini operas
At least Verdi has some goodies.
Guys, help me to find stuff from Mozart that I might like. I got 1.4k songs but it's a pain to figure out which of them to listen. I do like Don Giovanni overture, KV 219 and more simple stuff like Rondo alla Turca. Recommend me something somewhat similar please!
>>66455086
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-Ud5HjzSbU
>>66454927
There's no bel canto in any opera period these days since the style is largely dead. No one uses significant portamento in singing anymore. Singers cannot properly utilize diction during their singing anymore, doubly so since the opera world is so lacking in talent that many foreigners have sing languages which they cannot pronounce. Instead of healthy pauses, singers wobble their way through notes with terrible vibrato. Rubato has been significantly cut back in singing styles.
It's more of a result of the standards for operatic singing declining in the mid 20th century to the catastrophe that we have today. The last time I heard really proper bel canto was some old meme recording from Mozart's Don Giovanni. Forgot the singer.
>>66455333
Should I even bother listening to any opera recordings then if they're all so bad?
>>66455393
Early to mid 20th century is good. Very good. 60s-80s is where you start to notice a decline in singing, but it's still good. For the 90s and up, you need to be extremely picky about your recordings. There's still talent but largely operatic singing is a significant shadow of its former self. I've heard some good provincial no-name singers, though. Ironically most of the big names are just shit.
>>66455497
Do you have any specific recommendations for Don Giovanni? I've been meaning to listen to Mozart and I've been told by many that it is his greatest work.
>>66455333
>people support a decline in quality of opera stagings and traditions
>are saddened and surprised when soon enough everything else falls down the toilet with it
>>66455521
Fritz Busch for really old recording, but excellent singing all around and intelligent conducting. Furtwangler's recordings have great singers as well, but you need to be forgiving with his somewhat heavy tempi. Mitropoulos is quite good. Fricsay is good and in stereo (though some people absolutely HATE DFD in the title role). For a modern one try Harnoncourt (variable singing, period-influenced but full of Harnoncourt's mannerisms) or Nézet-Séguin. I've been meaning to hear the Hengelbrock one since he's probably one of my favorite conductors today, but I haven't gotten around to it. Also I don't really care for the look of the production.
>>66455843
Thank you my friend.
>>66455521
There is a very fine performance on youtube from the Strauzberg festival. It's probably the first hit. >>66455497
This guy is a douche. If it sounds good to you then it is good.
>>66454850
*if wotan, my bad.
I mean it's about the god's fucking downfall and he's basically killed off fairly unceremoniously in siegfried. And I can't remember exactly but it's either Siegfried or Walkurie that Ziggy and Brunhilde have a 30 minute duet at the end that could so easily have been 5.
He just needlessly draws shit out and the conductors don't help that. Also the plot was convoluted (not news, I know) but what really got me is that Seigfried should have been a somewhat minor character but hijacked everything when he came in.
I have strong opinions on the ring cycle as it took 16 hours of my life away.
>>66455843
>Mitropoulos
He has a Don Giovanni? Sold.
Is the recording on rutracker a good master or should I look for a different one?
Do people seriously listen to the recitative tracks on a CD? Why don't you just delete them from a folder?
Nevermind listening to completely recitative opera shit like Wagner.
>>66456130
WAGNER IS THROUGH-COMPOSED
recitative was out of fashion by this point in Germany
And not unless you know the language and want to follow the plot I guess. It's only purpose is to further the plot very quickly. Nobody every liked recitative except in Baroque era France where it was more interesting and less distinguishable from the arias
So if you like Louis XIV era French tunes, then yah, take in some Lully recit
rec disgustingly visceral pieces
>>66456476
Ever the classic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp3BlFZWJNA
>>66456018
>He just needlessly draws shit out and the conductors don't help that
Conductors can help it. Performances that Cosima oversaw in Bayreuth were largely faster than they are today. For example, I think the fastest Das Rheingold ever was reported to be at 2'14, as opposed to the modern trend of 2'30+
But even that is outside of Wagner's expectations. During the rehearsals for the Ring he was constantly berating Richter for being too slow, and claiming that, if they were not so slow, Das Rheingold could be completed under 2 hours. No one has even come close to those timings. This is primarily due to the tradition established by Toscanini Furtwängler, and Knappertsbusch at Bayreuth towards a more heavier, prussian-artillery-esque sort of aesthetic.
Siegfried isn't really a minor character since he epitomizes one of the main philosophical underpinnings between power, love, and will (and all the Schopenhauer wankery that comes along with it). Wotan is more-or-less the protagonist though, as he's the driving force behind everything that happens. By the time Götterdämmerung comes along, his lack of inclusion is to illustrate his loss of (will)power. Not to mention that he can't directly influence events anymore regardless since the only agents he had have been spurned and his spear is shattered. In Götterdämmerung he's merely waiting to die. Wotan is probably one of my favorite characters in any opera, but by the final opera I think he doesn't need screentime (Some productions do give him a cameo, though. But he's mostly just in the background waiting for his demise)
>>66456130
I listen to them the first few times of listening. But they really do get on the nerves after awhile. Sometimes it is easy to cut them out, but other times they're often paired with shorter arias to lessen track space on a CD, so it isn't always easy. Castor et Pollux is one of my favorite operas and one of these days I'm going to manually cut all the recitatives out.
>>66452939
Wolfgang Rihm, Richard Einhorn, Charles Villiers Stanford, Kurt Weill
>>66456080
I dunno. I haven't heard it in so long and most of the time I just edit the music to my own preferences if it is shoddily mastered/dynamically compressed/etc.
I probably don't have it on my hard drive since the last time I had listened to it was back on my old SSD and that's been long dead.
>>66454365
>>66454543
Oy Vey! I wonder where all this Wagner hating is coming from!
why is it no one talks about fidelio
is it really that shit
Why is Schumann so much more emotional and beautiful than Chopin?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDBsOgwnhnU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9vDOnQaPz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpscqbRy3mE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op8SGExXDHI
>>66456953
>Italian Opera
http://www.strawpoll.me/10765570
http://www.strawpoll.me/10765570
http://www.strawpoll.me/10765570
>>66457647
Because you're a pleb
>>66457820
>tfw like Bach and Debussy but dislike Beethoven and Chopin
>>66457820
I dislike German swampiness but Debussy is just too weak a choice against those.
>>66457859
>like Debussy
>dislike Chopin
What form of memery is this
>>66458052
I think that anon dislikes sentimentalism
>>66457820
Debussy and Chopin, I dislike Autism and Drunken sour krauts
>>66457930
Against Bach maybe, but Debussy's best works including Chamber music, Piano, and Orchestral match some of the best of Beethovens
>>66457855
I think you're right senpai
>>66457859
>tfw it's completely opposite for me
How the fuck can people not like Chopin and Beethoven?
>>66458135
are you into cuck porn?
>>66458135
I like Chopin, I respect Beethoven greatly but never cared for his music
>>66458181
NTR is the thinking man's fetish, son.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlt4913an7g
>>66457820
7x2 so far
Who were the 3 best 20th century composers in your opinion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZUQ7yZTFco
I've fallen asleep listening to this symphony twice, and each time I get nightmares. Augmented/diminished cords truly do have emotional power.
>>66458787
Schoenberg
Debussy
Bartok
>>66458787
britten
schnittke
schulhoff
>>66452939
Geirr Tveitt, Nikolai Roslavets, Toshiro Mayuzumi, Arnold Bax, Karl Weigl
>>66458847
The only correct answer
>>66458868
>Roslavets and Bax
based
>>66458887
Roslavets has some of the best Piano Sonatas I've ever heard. Shame people wont give his music a chance on here because they're too busy ejaculating over Schnittke and Bach.
>>66458787
These are just my personal prefrences
Prokofiev
Ravel
Scriabin
>>66455843
Speaking of Nézet-Séguin, has anyone listened to his Figaro? Is it worth listening too?
Can someone help me get into Mozart? What works should I start with?
>>66458787
Hindemith
Webern
Stravinsky
>>66450452
>what are modulations
an element of tonal music.
>Calling me an idiot
>still no idea what "atonal" actually means
time to get educated friendo.
here's some actual atonal music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0jCDxWvufw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqvlrphkGAU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ZMnLENKVs
Notice how there's never any tonal centre. ever. There's no key signature. all 12 notes of the scale are treated equally at all times.
>>66452939
Lera Auerbach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpRr-tTEpfw
John Psathas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gG0j-35Mgk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHI2xyyH-CU
>>66454788
>>66440554
the only ones who know what RYM is like are the ones who have been there. eg. you guys.
>>66458787
Martinů
Schnittke
Bartok
pic: what exactly am I in for here?
>>66460029
Don't listen to Vivaldi unless you know how to play the violin. You won't understand how fun his music is otherwise.
>>66460029
https://rbt.asia/mu/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=fuck+off+poly
>>66460065
great advice
>>66460029
Boly you don't have to use le serialism to be atonal. Also stop posting the same pieces
>>66460029
kill urself poly
>>66460122
>>66460164
>>66460267
not an argument.
>>66460445
You are literally the person /classical/ insults when there is no one else to insult; you are so bland and lowly that even putting you down is boring. You are a clown without jest.
>>66460445
There was no argument to begin with retard. Noose yourself
>>66460520
not an argument
>>66460520
Tbf I loathe poly and his shitposting but his posts are better than most of this thread. /classical/ is shit now
>>66458812
but do you think it's good? i want to listen to the faust symphony but i don't know if it's worth it
>>66460029
FOP
>>66457820
Thank goodness the debate is over!
>You will never write fugues as well as poly
https://soundcloud.com/psllbof
why live?
>>66457820
>impressionism BTFO
Lmao
>>66458787
First half
Mahler
Debussy
Puccini
Ravel
Webern
Second half
Berio
Cerha
Kurtag
Ligeti
Stockhausen
>>66460796
FOP
Epic
>>66461093
kek
i'm sure it covers chopin as well
>>66461144
That comment section is a goldmine
>>66461581
oh my god
>>66461581
>>66461581
>for all I hear is silence.
Epic
>>66461672
best/recommended recordings of bach's cello suites?
>>66461820
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGipFrts650
>>66461820
Casals or Queyras
>>66461820
You probably can't go wrong with too many performers. It's a successfully performed piece.
>>66461820
Maisky
>>66461820
Fournier
>>66461820
Rostropovich
>>66461820
yoyoma!!1!
When did you realize Debussy is for betas?
>>66461999
>>66461581
>Davis and Guthrie in the same sentence as NIN and Sex Pistols
Post your favorite keyboard works by Handel.
>>66458787
Sergei Prokofiev
Aaron Copland
Benjamin Britten
>>66461581
Heh.. Love is just a substance. We should doth be more pure as in olden tymes.
*teleports away while doing some e*ic backfl*ps*
>>66461581
as shit as we can get here guys, at least we never stoop to this level
Rank your top 5 Russian composers.
>>66460876
Second half is a race to the bottom so you might as well not even have segregated the list.
>>66462964
Hey, Berio and Ligeti are alright. Even if you don't like serialist stuff, both of them composed pretty great tonal works as well.
>>66461581
So why is it that the impressionists always attract the most cringeworthy shit?
>>66463259
entry level stuff always does. if you're reading the clair de lune comments, its not the commenters you should be complaining about, its your own choice of reading material
>>66462903
Schnittke > Stravinsky > Tchaikovsky > Chesnokov > Taneyev
I like the choral composers
>>66462964
I don't think they're that comparable, just like i doesn't seem right to compare Beethoven to Palestrina
I really think those composers in the second list are pretty great in their own right
Stockhausen can seem awful but that's because of his gimmicks and how hard he fell off in the 70's. Before that he was a pretty great artistic force and became very influential, even outside of his gimmicks.
Ligeti, Kurtag and Cerha are pretty damn solid composers. And Berio is an extremely individualistic composer and also a great conductor, a favorite of mine.
>>66463414
>entry level stuff always does
Many people would think Mozart is entry level, but I really doubt he attracts cringe like this. But I agree with you, that's only further proof that Mozart is anything but entry-level.
>>66463456
Mozart is simultaneously entry level and exit level. This is no contradiction, since the neophytes listen to the surface and the learned listen to the structure.
>>66463478
Damn... FPMIU
>>66463456
>implying Mozart isn't entry level
>>66463506
Not cringe at all desu senpai
