>he disregards video game music as if it's any different from 'regular' music
>>65948878
>it is
>>65948900
These songs were all made for games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsqLxdZx-cw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UuY196_euA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCj-I4LoqtQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0getIXnq7xA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXyTGIaKP-w
Instrumental music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n-uWmgOm9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m6eyZqtZLQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ZkP6yOE3E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXBVUY74Os8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgpWhd80ldQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB2tL6XD49s
Etc.
donkey kong country 2 soundtrack is amazing
Video game music is almost always over produced garbage with meme tier lyrics. A perfect example is that ''Nuclear'' song...
Some can be decent (like the L.A Noire Soundtrack you posted)
Prove me wrong.
>>65948878
It is though because it's meant to marry with a picture and can't stand on its own.
>>65949237
This is pretty terrible without the actual game.
>>65949931
Nuclear wasn't made for MGS5.
>Prove me wrong.
Why don't you prove that video game music is "almost always over produced garbage with meme tier lyrics"? You could start by explaining what that even means.
>>65949975
I haven't even played several of those. There's no need to play a game to appreciate its music, and we're not talking about something like cartoon music that only works in context.
Only vidya soundtrack that's worth listening to on its own is pic related
>>65950023
Yes anon, out of the thousands of video game soundtracks made this is surely the one and only that could possibly be listened to on its own.
>>65948878
Tatsuhiko Asano is my favorite artist of all time and he did the Doshin the Giant OST, an obscure N64 DD that never made it to the states. Beautiful ambient teacka that have a great tropical feel.
In its own its a 10/10 album, it makes me want to play the game one day if I ever get a DD and a copy of the game, I hear the GC port was butchered slightly content wise but I'm not sure how confirmed that is.
>>65949237
This is garbage, fuck off.
>>65950282
It isn't. Are you just mad because your assumption turned out to be wrong?
*tip*
Ok
>>65950310
No, it's just weep fedora shit. Go back to /v/.
>>65950467
You're right. How could these...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8KEZ4kr-Xc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OxpAqDc4JE
...possibly compare to these masterpieces:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AQ44nPrRTM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-59jGD4WrmE
One of the sad things about the West today is that so many people outright hate art.
>>65950667
>people outright hate art
And would much rather listen to some watered down approximation of art that gets inculcated into them while they do jumpy puzzles
>>65948878
Streets of Rage OST and the first 3 Sonic games all have goat soundtracks
>>65950667
This has to be b8
which game did health do the soundtrack for
im just gonna have to assume it would be good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukp1N4hI2Xg
op's right
>>65950820
>>65950872
The West is getting artistically more and more degraded every year and it's all thanks to cretins like you.
I agree with OP but /mu/ has terrible taste in videogames and ergo terrible taste in videogame music.
Only good vidya music posted ITT was the DKC2 OST
>>65950667
>jrpg shit
>use top 40 as an example of other music
>art
Why are you even here?
>>65950963
Better taste than /v/.
>>65950965
>jrpg shit
The fuck does it matter what genre of game the music is from?
>use top 40 as an example of other music
Well why not? It's not from video games and it's popular and socially accepted so it must be art.
>Why are you even here?
Why are you?
>>65950971
/v/ has mediocre taste in vidya for sure but /mu/ just downright doesn't know shit about videogames.
/mu/ literally likes the equivalent of top-40 shit in terms of vidya.
The ultimate GOAT in VGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lw-u_gsucM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNVfOl2rUXg
Videogame studios know that "gamers" are typically ignorant of music and art, so will create and commission things that reflect that, to not rile or upset their audience. Hence videogame soundtracks are at best inoffensive or boring, and at worst totally cringeworthy, cheesy, or outright laughable.
>>65950979
>The fuck does it matter what genre of game the music is from?
What exactly is so special about the XBC track you posted?
It's just a generic piano ballad.
>>65951010
>generalizing
>>65951010
This is a blatant generalization and only close to true if you look at the top-40-tier garbage known as the AAA industry.
Just like I said before, /mu/ legit knows nothing about videogames.
>>65950985
>/mu/ literally likes the equivalent of top-40 shit in terms of vidya.
Ironically, the only one posting top 40 vidya equivalents is OP.
>>65951042
OP here; I haven't posted a single track in this entire thread
>>65951042
That's not really ironic at all, people who have passion for one artistic medium will probably only dabble in the pop culture of the rest, because their own artistic medium is so complex that they don't feel it's necessary to learn another.
It's not ironic, not even coincidental, it lines up perfectly with logic/reason.
>liking computer games
>>65950979
Basically it confirms you as ignorant of music. Either pop is your only reference point or you're deliberately cherrypicking bad music to support your poor argument that video game soundtracks are actually worth a shit. Both of those situations confirm that.
What do you even listen to? Or are you "that guy" who listens to nothing but anime and videogame soundtracks and gets hostile when his poor taste is called out? Is that was this thread is about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju1wxMDhjMM
Saw these guys live once, it was great.
There are actually some differences between videogame music and "other" music, such as the need of vidya music to loop in lots of cases and/or react to different situations in the game on the fly and so on. There's really no other medium where the musician would have to think about this kind of things. Of course it doesn't always happen, but in theory.
>>65951067
Not OP but the following are what I believe to be top-tier vidya music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J67nkzoJ_2M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1EPegIzD2M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjFr_vW8kwc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICjD3f-8SXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgMRNiEPPYg
Though these songs, of course, were made to compliment game, story, and art direction, so it's no doubt they probably aren't as powerful to you as they are to someone who's played the games.
Even so, I believe NieR's ost is one of the most timeless soundtracks of all time.
>>65951010
You either have no idea what you're talking about or you're just outright lying. It's especially ridiculous when talking about Japan where the game industry has close ties with the music industry (as does the anime industry) and they're very focused on selling music and even make games that revolve around music.
>>65951011
You're moving the goalposts and I never said anything is "special." And generic is not a valid term.
>>65951067
No, you are ignorant of music. You don't even like music. Case in point:
>Are are you "that guy" who listens to nothing but anime and videogame soundtracks and gets hostile when his poor taste is called out
Someone who likes music wouldn't dismiss music on the basis that it was made for a video game or anime.
Only video games worth anyone's time:
>Soulsborne series
>Deus Ex
>Metal Gear series
>Half Life series
>Morrowind
>Fallout 1, 2 and NV
And sadly, these are all good toys at best. I've yet to play a videogame that can actually move me. Feel free to add to this list and somehow enlighten me because as far as I'm concerned videogames are shit tier art and good-tier entertainment to hang out with friends.
>>65951115
Feel free to post your top 10 albums.
I can almost guarantee Dream Theater is in there.
>>65951151
>Only videogames worth playing are top40-tier garbage.
wew lad
>>65951171
You are trying to change the subject.
>>65950965
not all jrpg music is bad, this one reminds me of fallout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMn-7LPFscs
>>65951171
wow great response
>>65951061
this
>>65951151
Yeah, why can't video games be incredible art like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6hlkIlGFCI
Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lmvX00TLY
>>65951172
>Recommended Art Games
games aren't art, /v/eddit
>>65951220
Yes they are.
>>65951220
What is art then?
>>65951220
Those are literally the most entry-level games you can play to get into them as a deeper, more complex artistic medium.
It's the /mu/-core of videogames. Drakengard is literally the Trout Mask Replica of videogames. Get off your pretentious high-horse.
>>65951182
Why are you so afraid to post your top 10 albums?
If you don't actually have half-interesting taste, then I see no reason to have a proper discussion with you about how videogame music is worthwhile if you clearly don't give a fuck about the wider scope of music and instead just want to justify your lazy music taste.
>>65951115
>Someone who likes music wouldn't dismiss music on the basis that it was made for a video game or anime.
Yes they would because it's literally music that's meant to marry with pictures or react to game scenarios, because of this it can't take the form of traditional music that is able to stand on its own and it's something to exist in the background.
>>65951220
>It's a "I've never played Silent Hill 2, Killer 7, MGS2, Drakengard, Deus Ex, Majora's Mask, or Planescape Torment but I know what I'm talking about when I say videogames aren't art" episode.
>>65950268
Thats really cool
i like louis philippe and he has a track on mother ost
>>65951234
>child/manchild pastimes
>deeper, more complex artistic medium
>>65951247
>This videogame contains art therefore the videogame is art
Hah.
>>65951264
Who are you quoting?
>>65949931
Nuclear was a licensed song.
>>65951232
Ok, then nothing is art. Art doesn't exist. Your point is moot.
>>65951237
>Why are you so afraid to post your top 10 albums?
Why are you so afraid to stay on topic?
>if you clearly don't give a fuck about the wider scope of music
That would be you.
>lazy music taste
So listening to what everyone else listens to is not lazy, but listening to niche music is. Ok.
>>65951245
>Yes they would because it's literally music that's meant to marry with pictures or react to game scenarios
Which doesn't actually matter and isn't even always true, so I don't know why you're bringing it up.
>it can't take the form of traditional music that is able to stand on its own and it's something to exist in the background
Game and anime music can and do stand on their own.
>>65951230
not videogames
>>65951247
that's a fallacy. videogames - the medium - isn't artistic, therefore every single instance of a videogame isn't artistic. i don't need to taste every single turd in the world to know that turds are not edible
>Fall Out Boy? Sorry, Madame, but I only listen to the most exquisite musique sourced from the videogames on which I have built my livelihood. I suggest you delve posthaste into the untold treasures of the great nation of Japan, including Final Fantasy and Xenoblade, before speaking to me again.
>>65950940
Holy FUCK you stupid weeb. Family Guy is in no way, shape, or form an accurate representation of the works of our greatest artists, and trust me, there are many. I'll give you the video game music can be as good as music where the primary focus is on the music itself, but a good lot of all video game music is only as great as you say in the context of the game. You're definitely right that there is fantastic video game music though, Xenoblade Chronicles being a great example of such that you should look into if you haven't yet.
>>65951172
>no Shadow of the Colossus
>Undertale
"why"
>>65951220
>>65951262
>>65951264
>>65951254
>>65951287
>>65951288
I get you guys are counter-baiting OP but this is genuinely why /mu/ should stick to talking about music and nothing else. You people don't know anything about literature, film, art, let alone videogames.
>>65951297
Undertale, while having a message that completely contradicts itself, still has a unique/creative execution of the "interactive" portion of vidya and uses it to actually convey a message. It's there because it, like the rest, is entry level.
SotC isn't there because that's just a given, everyone knows what it is, even stuck-up pretentious losers like most of the posters in this thread.
>>65951151
I don't think that art or entertainment needs to move me to be enjoyable, for instance I enjoy SHMUPs really much because just playing them is tons of fun. And well, the feeling of doing something well and the thrill of the possibility of losing it all are feelings too. And I don't really look for being moved or some intellectual point in visual art either and I love visual art. The emotional effect is just one small thing art can do to you and I think that there's much more in art you can experience.
But yeah obviously if you go and play games hoping for the things you find in classic literature or such, you're not going to find it... play the games for what they are. I think that there are interesting thing video games can do with storytelling and atmosphere, especially in games where there's no predetermined story like Crusader Kings or Dwarf Fortress, but so far there hasn't been a 10/10 "art game" which would actually utilize these. The very video gamey games which I mentioned are too unstylish, unemotional and "ordinary" to appeal to the art crowd.
Of course it can be said that the video game crowds don't need or necessarily even want the art crowds' acceptance. The art world itself is incredible divided between different schools and theories and doesn't even know itself what is art or not and what is good art and what is not... maybe making (and watching/playing) good entertainment is just more appealing to lots of people.
And desu this board generally considers very simple pop songs deep and complex art as long as the packaging is stylish enough. This has got very little to do with video games, of course, but everyone here is quick to claim that some things are not art and thus shit but also usually say that they enjoy simple songs for fun pretty often even though they know that these songs have little actual content or originality. /mu/ is mostly about simple pop culture. I'm not saying that you're necessarily doing this but lots of people are
>>65951287
>the medium isnt artistic because i said so
The basis of art is to create, videogames are creations, therefore they can be considered art.
Lol i love VIDYA!!! lets play VIDYA!!!! maybe a girl gamer will show me her VAGOO!
>>65951303
sure, /v/eddit
>>65951333
>/mu/'s argument for why vidya isn't art has devolved into talking about their primal desires for vagina.
This is why nobody takes music enthusiasts seriously.
>>65951303
I've played lots of games and the only two that could be considered art are Silent Hill 2 and MGS2.
Everything else is pretentious dogshit with no meaningful message(Bioshock, Spec Ops) or minimalistic nonsense that idiots pretend is deep(Team Ico games and Journey).
>>65951329
>The basis of art is to create
reductionistic view, wrong definition. i recommend you drop your little games for a few hours and google "what is art", maybe check a few dozen links
>>65951297
Isn't the point of a soundtrack just to work in their original context though? Even though OSTs are often sold on separate albums it's not really the way it's "meant" to be experienced. I think that soundtracks should be mostly judged by how well they work in the film/game. For example I think that Hotline Miami's OST is great as an OST and supports the mood of the game fantastically but the songs themselves are pretty mediocre and I never really bother to listen to them outside of the game. But in the game the music sounds good.
>>65951347
>Bioshock is pretentious dogshit with no meaningful message.
opinion discarded
>>65951329
>The basis of art is to create, videogames are creations, therefore they can be considered art.
Holy shit, it's the arts and crafts functionalism bullshit. Since when was it the 19th century on 4chan?
>>65951297
I'm not a weeb.
>Family Guy is in no way, shape, or form an accurate representation of the works of our greatest artists
It's very representative of the modern West's approach to art.
>>65951347
The idea that art is about the "message" and nothing more was probably introduced by so-called modern art, i.e. pissing in jars and randomly throwing paint on the canvas and then coming up with some 2deep4u explanation for it. Another reason why things are going down the shitter in the West.
>>65951361
>I think that soundtracks should be mostly judged by how well they work in the film/game.
That's exactly how you produce mediocre soundtracks.
>>65951343
what's the big deal with spending a few thousand hours deep in 3D gamespace? If your time is worth nothing, then I guess who gives a fuck what you do with your time. We all know that games are art. They're like cinema, but better because you can mash buttons and unlock achievements. So let's just say I spend a lot of time appreciating art!
>>65951363
The first game is literally:
>Reads Atlas Shrugged once
While Infinite?
The last 10 minutes of that game was probably the most pretentious thing I've ever witnessed in any media, not just vidya.
sober mr. lahey is cute
>>65951347
>SotC is minimalistic nonsense
It's the greatest love story told through videogames. It's minimalistic, sure, but it's far from nonsense and in execution it's extremely powerful. The use of game/sound/art direction to convey the lengths the protagonist has to go through, climbing the titanic colossi, etc. was really well done.
>>65950940
>west vs japan
Nevermind, it's just a culturally void manchild weeaboo. No point arguing here.
![02af19e290f66a266d19d0910683a5f6[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/vSWkVLl.jpg "02af19e290f66a266d19d0910683a5f6[1]")
>>65951385
>so-called modern art, i.e. pissing in jars and randomly throwing paint on the canvas and then coming up with some 2deep4u explanation for it. Another reason why things are going down the shitter in the West.
t. /pol/tard gamer manchild that gets his
views on 'modern art' off of alt-right viral youtube videos
please stick to your le vidya, gentleman
>>65951394
Nobody brought up Infinite, everyone agrees Infinite is complete garbage except for reddit.
That was a gross oversimplification of Bioshock, though. Even if that were half-true, it's still a unique execution with fantastic sound, art, and game design/direction.
>>65951278
I fail to see how asking you to name your favourite music is off-topic on the music board.
You can't seriously think a discussion about video game music's validity is going to be fruitful when your trying to ignore every other kind of music in this thread. How are you going to argue it is worthwhile without an external reference point?
Post your top 10 albums or delete this shit thread. Literally anyone with taste worth a damn isn't going to argue that video game music is just as valid. If your own music taste is shit, then you simply can't argue that video game music is good when you have nothing to compare it to, and haven't even tried to research and explore other music. I think you know this and are deliberately trying to save face. Prove me wrong.
Art is anything made by humans that is not essential to survival/reproduction. So yes, videog is art ;^)
>>65951412
I'm not a weeaboo, and you must be uncomfortable with the topic because you know how bad it makes the West look.
>>65951424
Yes, of course people who appreciate real art must be just manchildren from /pol/.
Art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTEFKFiXSx4
Not art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hstbdf-vOo4
>Bioshock? Mmmm yes, I do believe that to be one of the finer examples of the artistic prosperity of videogames. Top taste my fellow vidya gamer. I will meet you posthaste for a round of upvotes on the reddit thread after we have successfully toppled those cretins on /mu/ with our fantastic vidya riposte.
>>65951424
*tips piss jar*
>>65951361
Hotline Miami OST songs worth listening to outside of the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpRUKLKCY-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyCtfd8w6JQ
Just so you guys know, the poster in here arguing that vidya music is good is from the Katawa Shoujo General threads in /vg/, and is still salty after someone from /mu/ went in there and shit all over the music they were sharing with each other.
>>65951468
It's entry level as fuck. The chances of that actually happening are about as well as the reverse with Kid A.
And yes I will put Bioshock on the same Pedestal as Kid A because fuck you you pretentious philistine.
>>65951151
Mother 3 will always be very dear to my heart.
>>65951453
>I fail to see how asking you to name your favourite music is off-topic on the music board.
Nobody said it's off-topic on the music board. It's just off-topic in this particular context. You're trying to change the subject.
>You can't seriously think a discussion about video game music's validity is going to be fruitful when your trying to ignore every other kind of music in this thread.
You can't seriously think I'm fooled by your attempts at changing the subject.
>Post your top 10 albums or delete this shit thread.
You are trying to change the subject and I didn't make this thread. Go take your pills.
>Literally anyone with taste worth a damn isn't going to argue that video game music is just as valid.
Literally anyone who cares about music will acknowledge that music doesn't magically get converted into shit because it was composed for a video game.
>If your own music taste is shit, then you simply can't argue that video game music is good when you have nothing to compare it to, and haven't even tried to research and explore other music.
I never said I don't listen to any other music, that's just something you made up in an effort to change the subject.
>I think you know this and are deliberately trying to save face. Prove me wrong.
I think you are deliberately trying to change the subject. Prove me wrong.
>>65951466
>literally says 'everything we do is music'
>>65951491
>katawa shoujo
lel fucking weaboos
>>65951491
I played Katawa Shoujo for like half an hour. I almost never visit /vg/. I've never visited a KS thread on /vg/. Go take your pills.
>>65951502
>stimulating further discussion is "changing the subject"
>asking for your credentials to discuss music's validity - *MUSIC* being the key context here when discussing *VIDEO GAME MUSIC* - is "changing the subject"
Nice logical wall you've built here for yourself.
>>65951458
>ding dongs are art
>>65951499
>Hmm, I indeed do fail to see how one could not appreciate the fantastic virtual realm of videogames. Philistines, the lot of them. Vidya has provided my MGTOW self with hours of entertainment - all safe out of the clutches of the wicked female gender.
>>65951503
What about it?
>>65951526
>stimulating further discussion is "changing the subject"
Changing the subject is changing the subject.
>asking for your credentials
lol
>Nice logical wall you've built here for yourself.
Nice subject-changing you're doing.
>>65951526
Dude can I argue with you instead.
>>65951536 is literally the /mu/ version of >>65951539
We should trade opponents. OP is equally retarded to the guy I'm arguing with and you're probably just as capable of arguing as I am
>>65951530
what do you mean by 'ding dongs'? yes they are art
>>65951539
Anyone's argument is bulletproof if you refuse to justify your position on grounds of it "changing the subject".
Why are you so insecure about posting your top 10 albums?
>>65951555
>>>65951536 is literally the /mu/ version of >>65951539 (You)
How?
>>65951566
I don't have to justify shit to you. You are changing the subject.
>Why are you so insecure about posting your top 10 albums?
Why are you so insecure about staying on topic?
>>65951566
1. The Money Store
2. Currents
3. Trout Mask Replica
4. GYBE - Lift Fists
5. Spiderland
6. Hi How Are You?
7. OK Computer
8. Kid A
9. Filth
10. Madvillainy
Halo 3 has the best video game soundtrack of all time, prove me wrong
>>65951583
You're hilarious. I'm done here.
>>65951593
You're just as hilarious.
>>65950667
Literally everything you posted is dogshit
>>65951608
It's not even the best OST in the franchise. ODST is better, and so are 90% of good videogame OST's.
>all these people thinking video game music is bad
>not realising we are in a simulated reality and all music is video game music
shiggy my diggy
>>65951583
>I don't have to justify shit to you.
Actually, you do, based on what I said here >>65951526
The only refutation you could muster was "lol". Let's see that list, buddy.
>>65951615
>You're hilarious. I'm done here.
h-ha ha, i w-win!! i-ignored, lol!
![Parkin-WhyDidHideoKojimaLeaveKonami-1200[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ggbFch0.jpg "Parkin-WhyDidHideoKojimaLeaveKonami-1200[1]")
>>65951172
>>65951234
>>65951247
>>65951347
>>65951303
>>65951385
>>65951466
>>65951480
>OPM: Have you heard of [film critic] Roger Ebert's assessment that videogames can never be viewed as art? How do you feel about that?
>Hideo Kojima: I don't think they're art either, videogames. The thing is, art is something that radiates the artist, the person who creates that piece of art. If 100 people walk by and a single person is captivated by whatever that piece radiates, then it's art. But videogames aren't trying to capture one person. A videogame should make sure that all 100 people that play the game should enjoy the service provided by that videogame. It's something of service. It's not art. But I guess the way of providing service with that videogame is an artistic style, a form of art.
>>65951637
Why do I care what this talentless hack thinks?
>>65951634
>Actually, you do
Actually I don't.
>The only refutation you could muster was "lol".
What other "refutation" do I need for your retarded notion that I have to present "credentials"?
>Let's see that list, buddy.
You are trying to change the subject.
>>65951621
>It was made for a video game so it has to be shit!
Why do you hate music?
>>65951637
Appeal to authority.
>Everyone has different definitions of man-made concept
>big argument ensues
lmaoing at your pathetic lives and bottom-tier thinking. consider mass suicide, friends.
I'm gonna post some 90s game tunes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh6vJdfx33I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt_tfU5EybI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmI93WqFLXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiouQaVMBPU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxOZojaj4n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VJN-6xCMMI
I think this is a pretty good range.
>>65951635
That wasn't me. Please see >>65951634 and promptly cough up your top 10 favourite albums.
>>65951656
Credentials are necessary because so far your references for music not in a video game have been, quote, Fall Out Boy and Wiz Khalifa.
Ergo this discussion isn't worth having if your experience of music doesn't extend beyond that. I'm not going to sit here and listen you talk about how the Xenoblade soundtrack is just as good as other music when you're putting it next to Fall Out Boy and nothing else in order to argue its validity.
>>65951637
/v/ermin BTFO
>>65951689
>Credentials are necessary
lol
>Ergo this discussion isn't worth having if your experience of music doesn't extend beyond that.
This coming from someone who doesn't even like music.
>>65951385
Holy shit are you autistic?
How can you claim that derivative cliche video game music is good. Then claim that the west has nothing against Japan's art industry becuase the west is able to facilitate innovation in the arts. Modern art is a way of progressing beyond the over done artistic cliches of the past.
>>65951695
Again: appeal to authority. If you don't know what that is then look it up.
>>65951674
the only good response ITT
>>65951705
Again, your reply was nothing but "lol". And you've made a convenient strawman there, too, next to your bulletproof logical wall that any deeper question regarding the foundation of your stance is "changing the subject".
If you're just baiting, then that's fine, carry on. If you want to carry on talking about video game music, then I'm all ears once you can justify your position as one that isn't biased towards video game music on the basis that everything else is Fall Out Boy.
>>65951719
do you even know what an appeal to authority is? that guy posted a quote with an actual, consistent opinion from someone that had one of his games cited as an example of art itt. can you even formulate an educated opinion on *why* games are art? what do you understand about art anyway?
>>65951739
It wasn't even a real quote
>>65951107
>Though these songs, of course, were made to compliment game
>hotline miami
I've got news for you, m8.
>>65951733
>Again, your reply was nothing but "lol".
Because that's all your bullshit calls for.
>And you've made a convenient strawman there, too
There's no strawman. You don't like music.
>If you're just baiting, then that's fine, carry on.
"Anyone who doesn't agree with me is baiting! Waah!"
>f you want to carry on talking about video game music, then I'm all ears
Then why have you kept avoiding the topic?
>>65951739
>that guy posted a quote with an actual, consistent opinion from someone that had one of his games cited as an example of art itt.
It's an appeal to authority because his opinion is supposed to be fact just because he's considered an authority in the field of video games.
>can you even formulate an educated opinion on *why* games are art?
Can you formulate an educated opinion on why they aren't?
>what do you understand about art anyway?
What do you?
Post top tier video game art, I'll start
>>65949237
>>65950013
did you ever listen to real (good) classical music in your life? Or just into cheesy videogame bullshit
>>65951172
>art games
>undertale
>portal
>bioshock
>majora's mask
>fucking oddworld
Delete this.
>>65951788
>It's cheesy and bullshit if it's made for a video game!
Why do you hate music?
>>65951766
I've yet to see you take down that wall of yours and actually talk to me. Care to do so?
It's you that is avoiding the topic, kid. Your own topic that you actually started, by the way. And still refuse to justify.
>>65951760
It is, google it.
>>65951766
>his opinion is supposed to be fact
nobody said so
>Can you formulate an educated opinion on why they aren't?
the burden of proof is on you. videogames aren't an artform by default neither is it an estabilished consensus that they are an artform
>What do you?
i have post-graduate level studies on aesthetics
>>65951790
It's an entry-level art games list, and those are all entry level art games.
What the fuck is wrong with oddworld, you piece of shit?
>>65951247
Go to a fucking art museum, listen to art music, watch art film. Those games are fucking hollywood tier action titles that impress plebs because they are edgy or have plot twists.
>>65951766
circular reasoning: the post. this guy isn't worth talking to.
>>65951797
no it's cheesy and bullshit because of the way it's written. video game music is written to be unoriginal especially for something like Medal of Honor
quit bitching and start jamming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4-laKZSboI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4nrbK9J2DM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVI63gTCwfg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O9geZSW0Qg
/v/ needs to fuck off, 2bh.
>>65951637
Based.
>>65951806
>the burden of proof is on you.
He's continually refused to actually argue his points. What makes you think he'll do so now?
>>65951822
>It's a "I pretend to have actually played the aforementioned games and then pretend to have credibility by saying "indulge in arthouse" without giving examples" episode.
I bet you've never even watched the holy mountain you plebeian.
>>65951803
You're the one who refuses to talk. You've kept avoiding the subject and have kept trying to change it.
>It's you that is avoiding the topic, kid.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Are you actually delusional? Have you been formally diagnosed?
>Your own topic that you actually started, by the way. And still refuse to justify.
Not answering your bullshit question that only exists to change the subject doesn't mean I'm refusing to justify things.
>>65951806
>nobody said so
That's exactly the point. He's the famous video game guy Hideo Kojima and he says games are not art, so therefore games are not art.
>the burden of proof is on you.
No, the burden is on those who claim video games aren't art.
>i have post-graduate level studies on aesthetics
So nothing, then.
>>65951824
How have I engaged in circular reasoning?
>>65951828
You think it's cheesy bullshit because it was made for a video game. Why do you hate music?
>video game music is written to be unoriginal
No it isn't. That doesn't even make any sense.
>>65951844
You keep trying to change the subject. That means you're refusing to argue.
>it's a stubborn, self-important guy from /v/ visits /mu/, gets btfo, and runs back to his homeboard saying we're all pretentious assholes episode
>>65951486
>not horse steppin'
>not silver lights
>>65951857
I'm not stubborn or self-important, I'm not from /v/, I haven't gotten BTFO (that would be you) and I'm not running anywhere.
>>65951851
Stop before you go full autismo, anon.
>>65951656
>It was made for video games so it has to be shit
That's a straw man I was just saying that everything you posted ITT is not artistically innovative.
>>65951876
I've asked people many times to justify why responding to several people in one post is autistic and not a single explanation has been provided. Maybe you're the one who's autistic.
>>65951879
No, it isn't a strawman. It's exactly what people in this thread believe.
>innovative
This is another cancerous thing about the West. Only "innovative" things have value. Novelty is the most important thing. Eventually there's no choice but to start pissing in jars because everything else has lost its novelty value.
>>65951675
>90s game tunes
>I think this is a pretty good range.
>only snes titles
>>65951851
>you're changing the subject you're changing the subject
More of the same. Same logical wall. Same refusal to expand on your stance based on the totally arbitrary and nonsensical "it's changing the subject".
As if there was even a 'subject' worth a shit when you've continually refused to actually support it.
>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Fuck me.
>>65951910
>More of the same.
BECAUSE YOU KEEP TRYING TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT. That's all you've been doing in this thread.
>As if there was even a 'subject' worth a shit when you've continually refused to actually support it.
Projection.
>>65951871
>I'm not stubborn or self-important
ho boy
>150 posts into thread
>still not a single explanation of why videogames should be considered art
is /v/, dare I say it, retarded?
>>65951905
We all know it's only you arguing that video games are art, OP
>>65951932
Explain how I'm stubborn or self-important.
>>65951933
Where's your explanation for why they shouldn't be considered art?
Friendly reminder that describing something as "art" does not make it automatically good or worthwhile.
>>65951943
>Where's your explanation for why they shouldn't be considered art?
The burden of proof is on you, dr. autismo. You can't prove a negative
>>65951946
anybody who knows their 101 should know that
>>65951943
>show us proof that video games are art
>show us proof that video games aren't!!!
you don't need proof to justify logical facts. If you can muster any kind of argument other than "nou", maybe you should realize that what you're arguing is autistic.
>>65951943
>Where's your explanation for why they shouldn't be considered art?
Same reason why movies or music are not automatically art. Thing is that those mediums have more variations in comparison to games that is just a multi-billion dollar circle jerk machine putting out hollywood top 40-tier focus tested toys to appeal to the wide youth demographic and earn as much money as possible.
Majora's Mask has a GOAT soundtrack. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Video Game music is this amazing, underappreciated medium though. The ratio of games with legitimately fantastic soundtracks to games with painfully mediocre soundtracks is pretty weak desu. Even the best game soundtracks don't really rank all that high in terms of actual music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-PMeDUG_kY
>He doesn't listen to Lineage 2 soundtrack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzMRK2GddmA
>>65951940
I'm not OP, and I'm not the only one who argues that.
>>65951973
No, the burden of proof is on you.
>>65951982
What are these "logical facts"?
>>65951984
>Same reason why movies or music are not automatically art.
We're not talking about individual works, we are talking about video games, movies and music in general.
>Thing is that those mediums have more variations in comparison to games that is just a multi-billion dollar circle jerk machine putting out hollywood top 40-tier focus tested toys to appeal to the wide youth demographic and earn as much money as possible.
The Touhou series has been made by one guy since the 90s. He designs and programs the games, writes the stories, draws the art and composes the music. And of course there's a shit-ton of other independently produced games.
>>65951172
>goblet grotto
only game with any artistic merit on list baka
>>65951928
I've said before why it wasn't "changing the subject", and why that was a fallacy in itself. Twice, actually. Both times you replied with 'lol'.
I think you have autism. As if that needed clarification, anyway, when you clearly listen to nothing but video game music. Which is the position you're posturing, by the way, because you still refuse to prove that you listen to anything else.
Come to think of it, that's probably why nobody is engaging with your points in any meaningful way, because if that is the case - and you're as stubborn as you seem - then nobody is going to even try to convince you that video game music isn't the artistic bastion you that you think, because their time will be wasted since they'd just be pissing in the wind.
>>65952027
>The Touhou series has been made by one guy since the 90s.
>there are indie waifu simulators, so it must be art
>>65951905
Innovation is extremely important to the creative process. Breaking the rules of what came before is fundemental to the advancement of art. Without innovation art is reduced to the well trodden path of mediocrity. As time and culture changes it is essential to find new ways to express ourselves artistically becuase the old ways do not capture the full meaning of our life anymore. All artists that are considered great are innovators.
>>65952027
>unicorns exist
>prove it
>prove they don't xD
this is you
`>This thread is still up
>itt: "what's your favorite art film? pic related"
>>65952027
>fucking touhou is his go to example of games being art
>>65952076
What are some good art films? I've been looking for some. I really enjoyed a movie
>>65952045
I've said before why it is changing the subject.
>I think you have autism.
Projection.
>As if that needed clarification, anyway, when you clearly listen to nothing but video game music.
Meme, and I never said I only listen to video game music. That's just something you've made up.
>nobody is going to even try to convince you that video game music isn't the artistic bastion you that you think
They are wrong. You are wrong.
>>65952050
It's not a waifu simulator, and I was responding to the claim that video games consist of nothing but megacorporate products.
In fact it's probably easier to produce independent games than it is to produce independent movies.
>>65952052
>Innovation is extremely important to the creative process.
Westerners have come to fetishize innovation to a completely unhealthy degree. Innovation itself, for its own sake, is the point. Quality doesn't matter.
>>65952073
So what you're saying is that you can't prove that video games aren't art. I understand.
>>65952027
fucking hell dude
you have *never* expanded on your points and your entire rhetoric has been "no, YOU explain". funnily enough the one guy who has asked you to do so, you keep regurgitating "stop changing the subject"
why are people even replying to you at this point
>>65952076
/v/ probably creams itself over Pulp Fiction, I'd wager
>>65952094
what I'm saying is I don't have to until you prove they are
>>65952101
Pulp Fiction is good so I'd see why.
>>65952094
>In fact it's probably easier to produce independent games than it is to produce independent movies.
>it's easier to program than to handle a camera
I know there's more to making a film, but this simply isn't true. It's probably also the reason why indie games are basically only done by hipster nerds, they're the only ones capable.
>>65952094
>I've said before why it is changing the subject.
No, you haven't.
>I never said I only listen to video game music. That's just something you've made up.
No, you didn't. Instead, you forced me into a position to insinuate that based on the fact that you still refuse to prove that you don't. Funny how that kind of rhetoric works, huh? It's what you've been doing this entire thread.
>They are wrong. You are wrong.
Okay, so go ahead and write a few hundred words on why they are - you know, instead of childishly screaming "PROVE THAT THEY AREN'T!" and then we'll have a discussion.
>>65952101
Isn't Pulp Fiction /tv/core, though?
>>65952089
It's a perfectly fine example, and Touhou alone has done more for art than the past hundred years of "modern art" combined.
>>65952096
He keeps trying to change the subject so I keep telling him he's trying to change the subject. Are you stupid?
>>65952113
The burden of proof is on you.
>>65952131
Making a movie involves more than pointing a camera at something.
>>65952137
>No, you haven't.
Yes I have.
>Instead, you forced me into a position to insinuate that based on the fact that you still refuse to prove that you don't.
I don't have to prove anything to you. You're just trying to change the subject.
>Okay, so go ahead and write a few hundred words on why they are
Explain why it isn't.
>>65952045
b t f o
t
f
o
>>65952172
No I wasn't.
>>65952170
>Touhou alone has done more for art than the past hundred years of "modern art" combined.
This is the kind of person that we're talking to.
Everybody abandon this thread immediately.
>>65952183
ayy lmao you don't have to tell me twice
>orchestras, studios, teams of writers
>a group of retards who hit the right buttons and appeal to (you)
gee I dunno
>>65952170
>Touhou alone has done more for art than the past hundred years of "modern art" combined.
It's over.
>>65952170
your entire argument is "no u"
>Touhou alone has done more for art than the past hundred years of "modern art" combined.
goodbye!
>>65952170
>Touhou alone has done more for art than the past hundred years of "modern art" combined.
>>65952094
That's a strawman. I never said that quality doesn't matter. All good modern artists can create a good classical painting.
As far as I can tell the person who is advocating for video game music to be taken seriously as an art form is arguing against innovation in art. You seem to be calling for a return to classical music and art. Which contradicts your orginal point.
You know guys, there is such thing as bad art. Even those shitty Disney Channel sitcoms are art.
>>65952170
>Touhou alone has done more for art than the past hundred years of "modern art" combined.
>>65952279
>Even those shitty Disney Channel sitcoms are art.
for you
>>65952183
>>65952209
>>65952227
>>65952255
It's a one man project. He does everything himself. He's good at all the areas I mentioned. He has also inspired countless other people to make art, music, games and animation, and they have in turn inspired others.
These are Touhou fan animation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6qLLoEdWZw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ctujLIA8kU
Meanwhile the "modern artists" of the West are pissing themselves, dumping disused urinals in art galleries and randomly tossing paint on canvases while academics circle-jerk about how deep and meaningful it all is.
This is modern art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lmvX00TLY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTEFKFiXSx4
Yes, Touhou has done more for art. You degenerate fucks.
>>65951410
>greatest love story ever told
Go read a book you tool
>>65952279
>Even those shitty Disney Channel sitcoms are art.
No they aren't. A medium being an artform does not mean everything within it is art.
>>65952279
>there is such thing as bad art
>>65952170
>Touhou alone has done more for art than the past hundred years of "modern art" combined.
I'm done wasting my time with an anti art retard
>>65952274
>That's a strawman.
No, it's what the fetishization of "innovation" means.
>All good modern artists can create a good classical painting.
No, they can't. That actually takes skill.
>As far as I can tell the person who is advocating for video game music to be taken seriously as an art form is arguing against innovation in art.
Show me where I have argued any such thing.
>>65952325
YOU are anti-art.
Hirohito should pull the plug on this place this shit is embarrassing
>>65952332
>/v/non finally reveals himself as a touhoufag weaboo and goes full on autism
>>65952301
>Meanwhile
>dumping disused urinals in art galleries
That was literally 99 years ago, using Duchamp as an example of modern art is like saying ragtime is what's playing on the radio today.
>>65952332
>>All good modern artists can create a good classical painting.
>No, they can't. That actually takes skill.
You actually know nothing. A modern artist isn't just a person who picks up a paint can and throws it on the canvas then declares it art. For example in music all good art composers know and understand music theory which they then break. You also still haven't adressed how humanity should find a way to express themselves artistically in a changing cultural society without innovation.
>>65952301
2hu is modern art
>>65952360
Being in favor of art makes people autistic weeaboos now?
>>65952366
The Fountain is considered one of the great works of art of the 20th century, and the people who came after Duchamp were just as degenerate, incompetent and stupid as him.
>>65952383
>You actually know nothing.
I do and that's why I said what I did. A classical painting takes skill, it's not something that just any artist/"artist" can do. Painting and drawing skills have also gone into a decline in the West.
>You also still haven't adressed how humanity should find a way to express themselves artistically in a changing cultural society without innovation.
Show me where I argued against innovation. Protip: you can't.
>>65952390
No it isn't.
>>65948878
t. /v/irgin manchild thinking his shitty medium is somewhat superior to anything
>>>/v/
>>65952415
>something made a hundred years ago is modern art
>but touhou isn't
>>65952415
>The Fountain is considered one of the great works of art of the 20th century, and the people who came after Duchamp were just as degenerate, incompetent and stupid as him.
Duchamp was pretty fucking smart in doing such a statement, since faggots like you still cry about it a century later. I'll give you that everyone who has aped him since is fucking retarded, though. You can't make such a statement twice.
>>65952436
games arent art keep up man
>>65952436
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_art
>>65952433
Video game music isn't a different medium. It's music composed for video games. And you can't provide any good reason why music is bad just because it was composed for a video game.
>>65952453
>Duchamp was pretty fucking smart in doing such a statement, since faggots like you still cry about it a century later.
Yes, what a wonderful display of art. Absolutely amazing. As we all know, the purpose of art is to antagonize people.
>>65952436
Anime is even less art than games.
>>65952474
Anime is a form of filmmaking and storytelling based on drawing and painting. How is it not art?
>>65952436
End of Evangelion is the only anime that could be considered art you dumb weeaboo.
>>65952485
>confusing art and artform
Videogame soundtracks as a genre has a couple good albums but the vast majority of them are cheesy and not worth listening to outside the context of the game.
>>65951151
shadow of the colossus
>>65952415
>Westerners have come to fetishize innovation to a completely unhealthy degree. Innovation itself, for its own sake, is the point. Quality doesn't matter
This is a clear argument against innovation by someone who doesn't understand it. You have an outdated view of quality and therefore can never be truly for innovation.
>A classical painting takes skill, it's not something that just any artist/"artist" can do. Painting and drawing skills have also gone into a decline in the West.(citation needed)
I didn't say that any artist can paint a masterpiece, I said that all good modern artists can you retard.
>Things I don't like aren't art
Why is this so hard to understand for /v/irgins
>>65952488
Angel's Egg and Night on the Galactic Railroad is honestly more artsy, and the later is only really because of the original book.
>>65952496
That's not a genre, that's just how they're presented.
>>65952495
What are you talking about?
>>65952496
>If it's made for a video game, it must be bad!
Why do you hate music?
>>65952501
>This is a clear argument against innovation
No, it's a clear argument against the fetishization of innovation, which is PRECISELY what I said. Stop lying.
>You have an outdated view of quality
Silly me for not realizing that pissing yourself in front of a crowd is true artistic quality.
>said that all good modern artists can
No they can't.
>>65952472
The purpose of art is whatever the artist chooses for it to be. Duchamp created art to antagonize anti-art retards like you and show you how much art has changed.
>>65952540
I am not anti-art. I am pro-art. YOU are anti-art.
>>65952554
>no u!
There he goes again.
>>65952554
>Anti-art
Anyone who uses this term probably wears a fedora.
Or at least that's how I imagine their appearance.
>art is what i say!
lmao
>>65952536
>no they can't
Pic related
>>65952572
I was simply stating a fact. I am pro-art, you are anti-art.
>>65952577
I don't wear a fedora. Maybe you're just talking about yourself?
>>65952415
>A classical painting takes skill, it's not something that just any artist/"artist" can do. Painting and drawing skills have also gone into a decline in the West.
Classical painting was literally only theory and rules. Since it replicated reality there were definite rights and wrongs, so it's something anyone can learn if they just read up on it.
Also a lot of old artists just used camera obscura and traced shit to get it factually correct.
>>65952585
Thanks for proving my point.
>>65952536
>Silly me for not realizing that pissing yourself in front of a crowd is true artistic quality.
Silly you
>>65952604
Picasso's neoclassical style proves your point that everything should conform to classicist standards and that moderns artists have no skill how?
>>65952594
Painting literally requires you to actually paint for many years and not just read theory and then start shitting out masterpieces.
Have you ever noticed that Westerners are very rarely able to accurately imitate manga/anime style character drawing? It's much more simple to do than a classical painting and there's no shortage of guides and tutorials and examples out there. Yet they can't do it, try as they might.
>>65952616
I am not baiting. You don't know what baiting means.
>>65952638
What are you talking about?
>>65952474
>>65952488
Fucking hell mates it's just a reaction image
>>65952604
obvious b8
>>65952679
No it wasn't.
Why are you all still replying to this spastic?
He's already proved that he's a.) An autistic weeaboo, b.) Ignorant, and c.) Helplessly stubborn. Those three things don't make for someone who is open for constructively discussing things. All they do is shitfling and go, "no u," as we've already seen plenty of.
>>65952695
I have not proven any of those things and neither has anyone else. And people who keep aggressively trying to change the subject shouldn't accuse others of not being open to discussing things.
>>65952170
explain what exactly Touhou has done for art. how has Touhou pushed boundaries, challenged beliefs, and ushered in new.
go on im waiting
>>65952649
>What are you talking about?
The painting I posted was done by Picasso in a neoclassical style why does that prove your point?
>ave you ever noticed that Westerners are very rarely able to accurately imitate manga/anime style character drawing? It's much more simple to do than a classical painting and there's no shortage of guides and tutorials and examples out there. Yet they can't do it, try as they might. (Citation needed)
Are you saying that manga is a higher form of art than modern art?
>>65952688
If you can't appreciate the depth of that painting you have no word on art
Otherwise b8, and I won't bite again
>>65952688
Prove it wasn't
>>65952729
I just did:
>It's a one man project. He does everything himself. He's good at all the areas I mentioned. He has also inspired countless other people to make art, music, games and animation, and they have in turn inspired others.
Touhou fans have been doing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6qLLoEdWZw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ctujLIA8kU
While Western "modern artists" are literally pissing themselves and making "artworks" that are indistinguishable from trash.
>>65952764
Prove it was.
>>65952762
>depth
I.e. bullshit.
>>65952754
>The painting I posted was done by Picasso in a neoclassical style why does that prove your point?
Picasso made modern art and the painting you posted is not equivalent to what I'm talking about.
>Are you saying that manga is a higher form of art than modern art?
Of course it is, but that's not the point.
>>65952705
>who keep aggressively trying to change the subject
He said, while encouraging a lengthy chain of posts on visual art, and the ramifications of dada and post-modernism. I asked you to talk about non-video game music. You know, on the music board, and in a thread of which the entire topic is about video game music compared to non-video game music.
>a.) An autistic weeaboo
You said in full sincerity that Touhou is more important than a hundred years of developments in modern art.
>b.) Ignorant
You consistently refused and failed to prove even an entry-level knowledge of modern music.
>c.) Helplessly stubborn
Your entire rhetoric this thread has been, "No u," circular reasoning and an enormous failure to back up your own points without first reactionarily go, "no YOU explain."
You're a fucking autist. Go back to /a/, /v/ and /jp/.
>>65952783
>Picasso made modern art and the painting you posted is not equivalent to what I'm talking about
Why?
>>65952783
>>Are you saying that manga is a higher form of art than modern art?
>Of course it is
>>65952801
I have not changed the subject
>I asked you to talk about non-video game music.
You tried to change the subject.
>You said in full sincerity that Touhou is more important than a hundred years of developments in modern art.
I said it has contributed more to art, and it has. That's just how things are and saying so doesn't make me a weeaboo.
>You consistently refused and failed to prove even an entry-level knowledge of modern music.
No, you are just trying to change the subject.
>Your entire rhetoric this thread has been, "No u,"
You keep trying to change the subject so I keep telling you that you keep trying to change the subject.
>circular reasoning
What circular reasoning?
>enormous failure to back up your own points
What failure?
>You're a fucking autist.
Projection.
>Go back to /a/, /v/ and /jp/.
I'm not from any of those boards.
>>65952811
Because it isn't.
>>65952822
Yes, what's what I said. What about it?
>yfw op made his post and left
>>65952783
>implicit meaning and raising questions about how art functions is "bullshit"
an autistic trait is failure to pick up on emotional or meaningful subtext; it really does figure that you prefer the 'ooh pretty, colourful shapes and cute girls' of touhou and manga to art that actually has a purpose beyond the traditional, conformed aesthetics of pretty pictures.
>>65952783
People like you are the reason that the rest of us are ashamed to like touhou.
>>65952472
>Video game music isn't a different medium. It's music composed for video games. And you can't provide any good reason why music is bad just because it was composed for a video game.
confirmed inferior /v/irgin
>>65952879
Yes, it's exactly the kind of bullshit that "modern art" is comprised of. The work itself may as well be a pile of shit in a bucket of vomit, but it's "art" as long as you have some narrative behind it. Like, it's questioning heteronormative patriarchy or something.
>an autistic trait is failure to pick up on emotional or meaningful subtext
So you're autistic then?
>it really does figure that you prefer the 'ooh pretty, colourful shapes and cute girls' of touhou and manga to art that actually has a purpose beyond the traditional, conformed aesthetics of pretty pictures.
It figures because I am pro-art. You are anti-art.
>>65952931
You don't like Touhou.
>>65952938
Provide a reason why music is bad just because it was composed for a video game
>>65952938
Fuck off, Randy Bobandy. Stop changing the subject.
>>65952938
Fuck off Bandingo
>>65952965
Top picture is legit more interesting.
>>65953013
If you are legit anti-art. And of course you are.
>>65952938
Fuck off Randy Bobandy. You're anti-art, I'm pro-art.
youre all retarded
art is what is taught, showcased, and preserved
i mean this in a kind of sense that "history is written by the victor"
>It's art because it's pretty
This is some grade school shit right here
Reminder that the majority of /mu/core albums aren't any more artistic than most video games.
The only music that is actually artistic is classical and jazz. Besides that music is pretty much as bad as video games on the art spectrum.
>>65953038
Fuck off, skelly.
>>65952472
lol there have literally been several arguments against your point ITT, you just refuse to read them.
>>65953038
w/e u say skelley
>>65952965
>but it's "art" as long as you have some narrative behind it. Like, it's questioning heteronormative patriarchy or something.
yes, that's the point, well done! to use your own argumentative logic; explain how that's a bad thing.
you seem to think that because dada and post-modern artistic discourse is still going on, people still aren't making art in a traditional and modernist style. this isn't the case. traditional art certainly isn't dead, especially not in the west. when was the last time you visited a gallery?
an outright rejection of any kind of artistic style is anti-art. therefore you're the only anti-art person in here, buddy.
>>65953046
>The only music that is actually artistic is classical and jazz.
[citation needed]
>the "videogames are art" meme
every time
>>65953021
u r dumb ;^)
>>65952170
>Touhou alone has done more for art than the past hundred years of "modern art" combined.
>>65952301
>Interior Semiotics and 4'33" as first two go-to examples of modern art
lol
>>65953044
>It's art because I wrote a post-modernist bullshit essay explaining why it's art
This is some modern art shit right here.
>>65953055
And what arguments would those be?
>>65953060
>explain how that's a bad thing
Because the work itself is shit (sometimes LITERALLY shit) and it doesn't matter if it's shit because the work doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that you attach some statement to it.
In the past art was about skillfully making beautiful paintings, sculptures and compositions, and now it's about dumping trash on the floor and stating that it's a criticism of capitalism. Whee.
>traditional art certainly isn't dead, especially not in the west
It's not dead but it has fallen out of favor and skills have declined.
>therefore you're the only anti-art person in here, buddy.
No, you are.
>>65953083
No, you are.
>>65953093
It has and I already explained why.
>>65953117
Yes, they are examples of modern art. What about it?
>>65952840
Yes it is. It is a well done classical piece done by a modern artist.
>>65952965
>Yes, it's exactly the kind of bullshit that "modern art" is comprised of. The work itself may as well be a pile of shit in a bucket of vomit, but it's "art" as long as you have some narrative behind it. Like, it's questioning heteronormative patriarchy or something
Yes that makes it art. All you do is say that John Cage is not art and that modern art has no meaning. You have no actual backing for either of these views. You post these pictures of Western art versus Japanese art and act like these prove your point when in fact the prove the opposite. Japanese anime is all derivitive of similar styling a and methods and has not pushed artistic boundaries or Contributed anything to the art world. Where as modern art has meaning and expression behind it. It is truly art for art's sake not the meaningless Japaense bullshit that you keep posting.
>>65951172
Every time I see this picture I get a little sad, knowing that somewhere out there a guy is probably trying to argue that these games should be considered 'art'. Portal, Bioshock, fucking memetale, Zelda, holy fuck. It's pretty fucking clear that anyone spreading this pic has never set foot in a fucking art gallery or spent any time actually understanding artistic concepts beyond "it makes me feel some kind of emotion or challenges me morally". Video games are the artistic equivalent of cheap candy; no fucking texture, it's just all sweet and it overloads your senses.
>>65953122
>No, you are.
no u
>>65953122
You keep saying that something is bad but you have no real backing behind that reason. Your only real reason seems to be that it doesn't look pretty.
Sometimes I remember that people with personalities as autistic and abhorrent as the guy ITT are the people that use 4chan and it motivates me to leave this site even more. But I still can't do it.
>>65953127
>Yes it is.
No it isn't.
>Yes that makes it art.
No it doesn't.
>Japanese anime is all derivitive of similar styling a and methods and has not pushed artistic boundaries or Contributed anything to the art world.
Japanese art is actually art. Modern art is not. You have not "contributed" to art by pissing yourself in public or dumping trash on the floor or aimlessly tossing paint everywhere.
>Where as modern art has meaning and expression behind it.
The meanings are bullshit and backed up by no actual art.
The West is completely fucked.
>>65953144
No, you.
>>65953170
I already have backed it up.
>>65953063
>video games aren't art
>[citation needed]
>>65953174
4chan was orignally all that guy and similar so fuck off [spoiler]:^)[/spoiler]
>>65953174
To be fair, I've very rarely seen retards of this magnitude on /mu/. It figures he's a crossposter.
>>65953187
See you have no reasoning you just say no
>Yes
>No
>Yes it is
>No it isn't
Nice thread 2bhsmh
>>65952170
>Touhou alone has done more for art than the past hundred years of "modern art" combined.
>Video Game
>art
>>65953200
>See you have no reasoning
Yes I do.
>>65952965
>he doesn't realize that western artists were painting in bottom picture's style since the 1700s
Nice video game music discussion tho weeb
>>65953187
>he's literally only countering yes with no now
Just shitpost some more so the thread can hit bump limit already.
hey guys, i see that you're posting in a bait thread. no need to worry! why not just check out my bandcamp and we can all relax together!
https://carseatheadrest.bandcamp.com/
>>65953204
I already fucking explained this. Are you mentally challenged?
>Video Game
>art
Prove that they aren't.
>>65953217
I'm not a weeb and it doesn't say anywhere that a thread has to pertain to a single topic during its entire duration. I'm also not the only one posting here.
>>65953209
What is it then?
>>65953233
>I'm also not the only one posting here.
This thread is literally only you making an ass out of yourself while everyone else is laughing.
>>65953233
>thinks video games are art
>calling other people mentally challenged
t. weeaboo with no self awareness.
>Listing my top 10 albums would be changing the subject
>But talking about touhou and modern art is completely fine.
Just admit that you don't like music and move on.
>>65953122
They're not representative of the entirety of the past century, at all.
There's loads of music from the past hundred years that sounds like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOMhhUyejEA#t=7s
There's loads of visual art like pic related from the last hundred years
Personally I actually often prefer more abstract or weird shit, but it's not like the alternatives aren't there or certain ideas and techniques died off abruptly as soon as the 20th century started.
>>65953233
>I'm not a weeb
>thinks touhou is more significant than the last century of modern art and claims anime screencaps have more substance than western art
listening to video game music just as music is like listening to capeshit soundtracks just as music
>thread has hit bump limit
Good riddance.
>>65953304
>it will be archived and not thrown in the depths of 4chan thread hell where it belongs.
why even live?
>>65953237
What is what?
>>65953251
I'm not making an ass out of myself.
>>65953255
They are art and you must be mentally challenged since I already explained why Touhou has contributed more to art than modern art.
And I'm not a weeaboo. You don't even know what the word means.
>>65953268
Do you not understand how debates work? Is this your first day here?
>Just admit that you don't like music and move on.
Projection.
>>65953285
>There's loads of music from the past hundred years that sounds like this
>There's loads of visual art like pic related from the last hundred years
What does that have to do with modern art?
>>65953289
>I'm not a weeb
Prove that I am.
>thinks touhou is more significant than the last century of modern art
It is and I already explained why. Are you retarded?
>claims anime screencaps have more substance than western art
This is a blatant misrepresentation of my position.
>>65953233
>le prove that they aren't
Video games are mostly commercial products whose entire inherent purpose is to make money of sweaty ballsacks like yourself, no video game around is trying to be artistic; they aren't breaking any new artistic ground that other forms of media haven't covered already. The ONLY merit for vidyas as art is literally their interactivity & frankly that aspect is almost entirely underutilized by devs.
Fact is 99% of game devs aren't artistically minded; they're programmers looking to sell a product. Nothing wrong with that, just means they're not making art.
>>65953304
I'm about to make a new one stay put ;)
>>65953315
>And I'm not a weeaboo. You don't even know what the word means.
no, you are def a weeaboo =^)
>>65953315
>Are you retarded?
No, but I've got some bad news for you, friendo.
>>65953315
What is your reasoning?
>>65953315
Appeal to authority.
>>65953325
>the ride never ends
P L E A S E D E L I V E R U S F R O M E V I L
>>65953321
>Video games are mostly commercial products
Just like all other art then!
>no video game around is trying to be artistic
Blatant lie.
>they aren't breaking any new artistic ground that other forms of media haven't covered already.
How many video games were developed in the 19th century?
>The ONLY merit for vidyas as art is literally their interactivity
What do you have against visual arts, music and storytelling?
>>65953328
Prove it.
>>65953333
That you're retarded?
>>65953335
For what?
>>65953335
his reasoning is
"Yu-huh!!!!"
>>65953315
>What does that have to do with modern art?
They are also modern and art. They are less radically new than Cage was, and they clearly draw on past traditions, but they're still modern art.
>>65953345
Where did I appeal to authority?
>>65953352
Where did I say that?
>>65953351
>Prove it.
these are not things one can proove, only know for fact, and i know for a fact that you are a weeaboo.
>>65953315
>I'm not making an ass out of myself.
This fucking guy right here.
Art is a creative expression that require imagination, skill and technique. What is "good" and "bad" art depends on the amount effort put into that art piece.
Believe it or not Video games are a type of art, film is a type of art, board games are a type of art even down to the concept and board design.
>>65953382
is masturbating an art?
>>65953360
"Modern and art" and "modern art" are OBVIOUSLY two different things. What kind of bullshit are you trying to pull here?
>>65953377
Prove it.
>>65953379
I repeat: I'm not making an ass out of myself.
>>65953386
>>65953386
>>65953386
>>65953386
NEW THREAD
>>65953351
Is said that John Cage was art and explained why and you just said no. Unless you can back up your reasoning I'm just going to assume that you are retarded.
>>65953409
His composition literally does not exist. He didn't compose anything. It's just silence. There's nothing. That's not art, that's "modern art."
>>65953398
>I repeat: I'm not making an ass out of myself.
>>65953397
Porn is art. If you argue against that, that's fine. It's okay to be gay.
Jesus Christ this thread is embarrassing, is /mu/ full of 40 year old pesudo-intellectuals or something
>>65953421
Which as I explained is art. It is Cage showing us the musicality of our everyday lives and how art appears everywhere in life. It is art for art's sake.
Oh good goodie.
>>65953422
Prove that I am.
>>65953450
It is not art. It is anti-art.
This is art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b44-5M4e9nI
>>65953454
boards.4chan.org/mu/thread/65948878/he-disregards-video-game-music-as-if-its-any
It's all in here.
>>65953480
Why is it anti-art? You have to explain yourself.
>>65953397
No, it's not.
Mediums that uses color, sounds, forms are art.
Calligraphy is an art, but can be argued stories aren't. Stories are works of literature, a class of it's own.
>>65953494
Again: prove that I am.
>>65953512
I already did.
>>65953533
No you didn't. You said that it was nothing. I refuted that by saying that it was Cage's way of showing us the musicality and art in our everyday lives. You then said it's not art, it's anti-art. You never said why I was wrong about the artistic meaning behind 4' 33".
>>65953594
>No you didn't. You said that it was nothing.
I.e. I explained myself.
>I refuted that by saying that it was Cage's way of showing us the musicality and art in our everyday lives.
What a load of horseshit. Exactly what I'd expect from "modern art."
>>65953642
See you can't refute what I'm saying, you can call it horse hit all you want , but that doesn't make you right.
>>65953661
But I have refuted you. Your "art" is nothing but pretentious fucking bullshit where the work can LITERALLY NOT EXIST AT ALL. Cage's composition is equivalent to me standing in an art gallery and just telling people I painted something.
>>65948878
>>he disregards video game music as if it's any different from 'regular' music
Video game music isnt really any different from "regular" music (whatever the fuck regular music is). It's still music.
>>65953697
No it's not. Cage is a talented composer and was trying to show how the everyday world can be intperretated as art. You seem to lack the fundemental skill of reading becuase all you can say is that you don't like it. Pretentious is not a valid criticism. Although you may not like it it is still art.
>>65953642
hey retard, get in here >>65953386
>>65953697
I'm not that guy, but you're entirely missing the point. Cage has been quite vocal about his intentions behind 4'33.
He was never claiming that it was art or music in the first place. The purpose of it was to destroy this supposed contract between a musician or an artist and the audience, and draw attention to the inherent beauty of the natural world and one's surroundings. It's quite literally anti-pretentious in that he isn't posturing at all and instead putting emphasis on someone else's subjective process and why that is a beautiful thing.
If anything the only pretentious person in this thread is you, who seems to think that the only definition of art is something that has pleasing physical form. Which is horribly anti art. YOU have far more unearned hubris than the people who shit in buckets that you seem to think are out to destroy art.
>>65953777
He was fucking bullshitting. He didn't compose anything. He made no art. He just came up with a pretentious narrative to explain why he didn't make anything. That's "modern art."
Meanwhile actual composers are making music like this and people say it's nothing but garbage and not real art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw19XDSB0ZI
What the fuck happened to the West?
>>65953809
>The purpose of it was to destroy this supposed contract between a musician or an artist and the audience
Please stop.
>>65953825
I explained quite clearly why it wasn't bullshit. Care to explain why it is? Beyond criticisms of "hurr it's pretentious what a load of shit" ?
It's EXTREMELY straightforward.
>>65953825
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw19XDSB0ZI
this is awful you should stop listening to music altogether
>>65953857
It's extremely straightforward that you're an anti-art retard.
>>65953825
>>65953878
You know, it's also quite funny that you shit on Cage, when it was his own piano compositions that radically destroyed preconceived notions of what was beautiful, that allowed composers like your own boring anime one to actually do what they love, and have the freedom to create their own compositions, without fear of reprisal from militant traditionalists like yourself.
>>65953877
I'm sure it seems awful to people who hate music.
>>65953897
>it was his own piano compositions that radically destroyed preconceived notions of what was beautiful
Oh, I'm sure.
>militant traditionalists like yourself
Being pro-art doesn't make someone a "militant traditionalist."
>>65953920
Also it's hilarious that you call that composition boring while fellating a composition that is literally nothing but silence and therefore does not even exist. What a fucking joke the West has become. Not composing music at all is now superior to composing music.
>>65953920
You are coming from a place of absolute ignorance regarding art and music. It's very clear that you haven't studied and researched it. This exchange isn't worth having.
>>65953937
>You are coming from a place of absolute ignorance regarding art and music.
No, that's where you're coming from.
>>65953825
You do realize that music in the East is just as, if not more fucking degenerate than the West right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXZ21s71kDU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lcqFMuxHeo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvD3CHA48pA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKuZzR2FknI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHjmNl_4q34
Don't fucking act like the East is some heavenly bastion for artistic work. It's a fucking horrible place for art.
>>65953968
>Don't fucking act like the East is some heavenly bastion for artistic work. It's a fucking horrible place for art.
They haven't turned into incompetent post-modernist anti-art lunatics like the West. They're now far better at the artforms that the West developed.
>>65953959
I skimmed the thread and saw people shitting on you for "no u". I see their point. I also read your other posts and it's quite tragic.
Right-wing traditionalism (your own doctrine that you've been parroting ITT) is inherently anti-art in that it stifles progress and attempts to project preconceived - and very baseless - values onto everything under the pretense that it's the "right way of doing things". Please do some reading.
Anime and touhou wouldn't exist if that kind of logic was put into force.
>>65954026
You clearly did not even look at any of the videos I posted did you? All of those are exactly the same thing you are complaining about that is happening in western society.
>They're now far better at the artforms that the West developed.
Oh yeah, harsh noise is better than the thousand years of western classical tradition.
>>65954033
I have parrotted no right-wing traditionalism, and unlike you I am pro-art.
Your conception of art is so fucking fucked up that you think not even making art is art. A composition with no notes, a blank canvas---this is "art." Fucking christ.
>Anime and touhou wouldn't exist if that kind of logic was put into force.
They wouldn't exist if art worked the way you want it to.
>>65954100
>Oh yeah, harsh noise is better than the thousand years of western classical tradition.
Japanese art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3GUbWZ81AY
Western art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTEFKFiXSx4
HMM I wonder which is more artistically accomplished.
>>65954130
Japanese "art" music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHs0LkixGvY
Western art music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF43b38k0Mw
The east is just as bad as the west and just because you haven't heard of all (or are pretending to ignore) the post-modern bullshit they are pumping out does not make them some holy beacon of art.
>>65954130
You're either deliberately baiting or horrifically stubborn and stupid.
Cage NEVER claimed 4'33 to be art. In fact he explicitly stated that it wasn't in a very lengthy essay. It was a deconstructive exercise that a lot of people, including yourself, have sadly misinterpreted. He's also a very accomplished piano composer, funnily enough.
>They wouldn't exist if art worked the way you want it to.
No, they actually wouldn't exist if your own traditionalism (please look this word up) was enforced. The moment your Japanese artist began drawing eyes differently than they appeared on the human body would be the moment they were censored.
>>65954192
>Western art music
No, that's not art. It's too conventional, too musical. Too artistic, you could say. Where's the post-modernism? Where's the interior semiotics? Where's the labored, thesaurus-abusing essay explaining how profound it all is?
>The east is just as bad as the west
They aren't. You're just trying to drag others down to your abysmal fucking level you degenerate subhuman.
>>65954219
>Cage NEVER claimed 4'33 to be art.
Then why are YOU claiming it to be art?
>In fact he explicitly stated that it wasn't in a very lengthy essay.
> It was a deconstructive exercise
Yep. This is the kind of bullshit I'm talking about.
>No, they actually wouldn't exist if your own traditionalism
Don't try to fucking turn this around you piece of shit. YOU are the one who is opposed to art, and it is under YOUR ideal conditions that anime couldn't exist.
>>65952843
D e v i I i I s h
>>65954304
I actually never claimed it to be art. You can see the posts I made here >>65953809 >>65953857 >>65953897 >>65953937 >>65954033 >>65954219
The fact that neither I, nor Cage, have claimed it to be art has undermined your entire argument, which you've also done so yourself by insisting that it is in fact art.
You're using the same rhetoric that I see you've used the entire thread. When someone points out the flaws in your reasoning clearly and concisely, you will fall back on statements like "bullshit" and claim that they're skewing the argument. That's not the case. I've engaged you very straightforwardly.
Please stop posting for both our sakes. You're digging yourself deeper into your own nonsensical argumentation, and wasting my own time. Read up on art and music history.
>>65954412
>I actually never claimed it to be art.
Then what the fuck are you arguing about?
>which you've also done so yourself by insisting that it is in fact art.
I've said it isn't art.
>When someone points out the flaws in your reasoning clearly and concisely, you will fall back on statements like "bullshit" and claim that they're skewing the argument.
Why are you lying?
>Please stop posting for both our sakes.
No. Fuck you.
>You're digging yourself deeper into your own nonsensical argumentation
That's what you're doing.
>Read up on art and music history.
Take your own advice.
>>65954476
Goodbye. I hope that you get over this ridiculous stubbornness one day and find peace.
>>65954497
Projection.
>>65954304
>still ignoring all the artists i listed earlier
Would you like me to present to you all of the post-modern bullshit essays explaining how merzbow, masonna, kazumoto endo and thr countless others are profound and interesting. Face it the east is just as, if not more fucking trash with lots of pseudo-artistic crap that you just conviently turn a blind eye to.
Or maybe, you think you know Eastern music when in reality all you know are crockpot soundtracks and anime and know fuck all about eastern tradition and actual popular eastern music.
>>65954547
Stop replying to him. He's made it abundantly clear that he's totally ignorant, and even confused about what he's trying to argue.
>>65954547
>Face it the east is just as, if not more fucking trash
Nope. Go fuck yourself, subhuman. Not everyone is as much of a degenerate piece of garbage as you.
>>65954581
Yeah, I might as well. Shame, because i fucking love some video game soundtracks.
>>65954581
Projection.
>>65954612
No you don't.
