There are several things I don't get about their sound. I always expected them to be headbanging material, proto-metal band and so on. But the more I listen to them, the more I like Sabbath and Cream.
1. What's with the overall record sound? The albums sound like they've been recorded in an outdated studio and lack punch. There's echoing reverb which just sounds out of place. The guitar sounds like it's been put through tin can. Pretty much everything from roughly that era, e.g. albums like Let It Bleed, Ziggy Stardust and so on sound better than this. Sure they could afford better production/equipment, right?
The 2014-2015 remasters added lots of punch, but the echoes/reverbation is even more noticeable. I often prefer their later live bootlegs like Listen to This, Eddie for certain songs.
2. The dancey bass parts. They just sound out of place. Pretty much no one in hard rock did that after them.
3. Why did they stick to their blues rehashes for so long? When King Crimson and prog were already in full force, Sabbath and Cream were big, they still stuck with it. Even after bands like Van Halen, Styx and Judas Priest came, they still continued all the same. True, they still sold shitloads records, but they just failed so much to keep up with the times it's just baffling.
>>64290328
its you.
The first two albums just tried to recreate in the studio what Cream used to do live in concert. And even THAT wasn't very impressive. I'd just rather listen to all the live Cream output like disc two of Wheels of Fire, side two of Goodbye, and Live Cream parts one and two. Jimmy Page was better with The Yardbirds, or when he was a journeyman anyway. Never liked Led Zepplin, and I never understood what the fuss was all about.
>>64290328
Vat. By the time Styx, Van Halen, and Judas Priest were a thing, Zeppelin were ancient history.
>>64290768
This. I thought I was the only one.
I've seen some people claim that LZ is famous mostly for its "cult" status, its "mythos".
I kind of agree. Listen to Rolling Stones - Can't You Hear Me Knocking which is from the same period and it's excellently mixed and has a very fulsome sound.
>>64290768
>Jimmy Page was better with The Yardbirds
LOL. right
>>64290328
I only know 4 and I like how that souds.
Heard 2 on a shit vinyl but don't really remember how it was
>>64290914
The Stones' production went into the shitter after Mick Taylor left; starting with IORR their albums are a fuzzy mess with nearly illegible vocals.
I am going to agree that Black Sabbath has aged far, far better than Zeppelin possibly because they don't rely so much on imitating that generic 50s-60s electric blues sound (eg. The Ocean).
>>64290985
Ok but CYHMK is from Sticky Fingers back when they had good mixing. That album sounds like it could have been released yesterday while LZ II sounds like a fuzzy 45 record from like 1958.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fa4HUiFJ6c
For example, Mick Taylor's soloing on here, while it's recognizably bluesy, also sounds unique and isn't merely copying 50s Chicago blues note for note.
>>64290807
Well, they were still around until 1980. But they didn't really make much effort to go with the times.
Physical Graffiti came out 1975 and it was more a step back than forward. That year, Aerosmith released Toys in the Attic, Deep Purple already broke up and Rainbow made their debut album, Rush released Fly by Night, Springsteen released Born to Run. Year later in 1976 Ramones came.
Older bands managed to at least adjust somehow. But LZ stuck with their sound.
>>64290914
Wow, thanks for the link. That really sounds by far better than any LZ album.
>>64290768
>The first two albums just tried to recreate in the studio what Cream used to do live in concert
No. The first 2 albums tried to recreate what Led Zeppelin did in concert. They were as much of a jam band as Cream was.
Page was a fairly sloppy guitar player but he had the groove that was infectious, monster riffs on top of scintillating solos (the solo break in Whole Lotta Love was like molten metal thru butter) and the vision as a producer to create one the most influential bands of all time....a wee bit more than he was able to accomplish in the YBs. from the green glens of wales to Valhalla to Chicago to Kashmir and back- no band painted with such a broad brush as LZ.
Ever heard this tune? :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7R9KQF6GCU
>>64290328
>The albums sound like they've been recorded in an outdated studio
That's because they were recorded 40+ years ago
>Why did they stick to their blues rehashes for so long?
Because that's what they liked to play?
>>64291135
>Older bands managed to at least adjust somehow. But LZ stuck with their sound.
really? Then how do you explain In Thru The Out Door? they got hammered by everybody cuz it was so different...
>>64291033
This. Back 5-6 years ago I wanted to get into music with Led Zeppelin. I was hugely disappointed. I consciously avoided anything before 1980s after that, with the exception of Hendrix.
Then I decided to get into Cream and Sabbath, and I really didn't expect they were so ahead of their time. Moreover, I simply started forgetting Led Zeppelin. I don't even associate them with metal anymore. I hear Stones, Cream, Sabbath, Aerosmith everywhere in '80s metal, but Led Zep—not so much,
>>64291135
Page had tapped out all his good riffs by 1975 and Plant's voice was shot.
They probably exhausted themselves quicker because unlike the Rolling Stones who had different lineups over time (eg. Brian Jones in the 60s and Mick Taylor in the early 70s), Zeppelin was just the same four dudes from beginning to end.
I mean, Sabbath (also a four piece band) tapped themselves out almost as fast as Zeppelin but they were able to gain a new lease on life with 15 years of revolving door lineups.
>>64291466
>Page had tapped out all his good riffs by 1975
Fail. Achilles Last Stand is one of the best LZ songs ever...from 1976
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlRjjGc6pJA
>>64291367
>I don't even associate them with metal anymore
nor should you...they are not a metal band.
Sabbath haven't been ruined by overplay because they never had radio-friendly singles like Stairway that could be abused to death by CRR for decades.
they're not a very metal band, more boog-a-loo and blues and mystical folk
they are sincere and the listener can believe in their druggy fantasies
>>64290328
>blues rehashes
You mean improvements?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFDYuO53BUk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTdSCsP7gOE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZgblTKscX0
"There's millions of people out there who love Black Sabbath and Metallica. I say they can keep 'em."
-- Keith Richards
>>64291617
>what is Paranoid
>>64291208
>page
>sloppy
Yeah you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
>>64291208
I agree on Whole Lotta Love. Though the song is pretty much a ripoff of blues, much like a lot of LZ songs, it's still a fucking rocker.
I also agree LZ popularized certain song structures, as well established rock ballads and generally definitely influenced the music. They also had a big range of different styles of songs.
Still, most of their stuff was poppy basic blues with distorted guitars. There's of course the other side of LZ, like LZIV. But it's obvious people will have a huge bias for that album as it's one of the best selling albums of all times.
When I want folk/country music, I will much rather listen to Crosby/Stills/Nash/Young, Nick Drake and other musicians, thank you very much. I never really liked any of the results of their pretty tame genre experimentations. Kashmir is good but what bands like Judas Priest and others did after it makes it pale in comparison.
>>64291262
I just listened to it. My first thought was "this sounds like Joe Cocker". My second thought was "wow, what an unashamed adult pop rock".
How is the production bad? Compared to early Sabbath maybe but that's an unfair comparison.
IV and beyond are excellently produced
>>64291699
sure I do.
Having listened to a shit-ton of Led Zeppelin live shows over the last 30yrs, I know for a fact, he is sloppy at times. Precision live was not his forte. In the studio was another matter....
I love his playing- one of my favorite guitar player for his riffs, his groove and his vision...but he was sloppy at times live.
The fact that you so adamantly disagree suggest you might be the clueless one.
>>64291617
>excessive radioplay ruins a band for him
I always preferred Black Sabbath, Sir Lord Baltimore, Flower Travellin' Band, Lucifer's Friend, Captain Beyond, Budgie and Buffalo, desu senpai.
Even Deep Purple has better songs than Led Zep, ffs.
>>64291651
> 12-bar-blues
> improvement
Hahaha wat
In My Time of Dying is a good song, but again, it's such an ashamed blues without much change, that it's exactly what makes me wonder how Page has managed to shun all musical progress for so long.
>>64291617
Dude, I don't know if you've been living under a rock, but "Paranoid", "War Pigs" and especially "Iron Man" have been played to fucking death on the radio.
The real Sabbath classics hardly get mentioned.
>>64291889
Hi, Eddie Van Halen. Didn't know you browsed /mu/.
>>64291957
> Even Deep Purple has better songs than Led Zep, ffs.
This. They had filler and Blackmore wasn't as technical as Page, sure, but fuck me if the entirety of In Rock and songs like Black Night, Burn and others don't kick ass much more than 99% of what LZ has ever done.
>>64291776
>When I want folk/country music, I will much rather listen to Crosby/Stills/Nash/Young, Nick Drake and other musicians, thank you very much. I never really liked any of the results of their pretty tame genre experimentations.
Meh- its hard to listen to Ramble On or Over the Hills A Far Away and not hear utterly original, sweet yet fucking rocking music that was all their own...No other band truly matched their breadth and diversity...from studio recordings to playing live....from proto-headbanging to some of the sweetest acoustic rock ever.
>Kashmir is good but what bands like Judas Priest and others did after it makes it pale in comparison.
Comparing Kashmir to Priest? WTF- its like comparing Mozart to my car mechanic. I dont even like Kashmir that much but the epic vision laid out in that song from the lyrics to the composition to Bonhams playing....just dont see any rational, objective comparison to Priest.
So you're not into the production, its not terrible in my opinion. We're looking at it from our point in the future, it would have been so different back then in the time.
The thing with Led Zeppelin is there are so many interesting genre crashings, styles and great musicianship that far outweighs any of the rock bands mentioned in this thread
>>64290807
Now, Priest notoriously did have terrible production on their early albums, also in the beginning Tipton and Downing mostly just imitated Page. For example, some of the lead breaks on Sad Wings sound almost note-for-note like Page's licks on LZ II, but by Sin After Sin they sound like their own thing and not Zeppelin/Sabbath wannabees.
>>64290328
The appeal of Led Zeppelin is, and always will be, how good they sound high as shit.
>>64290328
Yeah, it's you. Zeppelin's production is one of the most genius aspects about it.
Actually operating from deep esoteric theory, but I wont get into that.
>>64291985
I never ever heard those on CRR but I sure as fuck have heard Stairway To Heaven.
>>64292105
Oh I do! When I am not busy firing another lead singer...I come to /mu to understand what the plebs really want...its how I get to be so edgy.
>>64291836
They have lots of fiddling with sound, by they still have that nasty reverb/echoes I was talking about. Like they were poorly recorded on equipment from early '60s. As I said, almost any big rock album from its era beats it in these terms.
>>64292229
you've never heard Sabbath on the radio? Your either lying or 3yrs old.
Which is it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OBs6S1lW_Q
Or Blue Oyster Cult - this is much heavier than Zeppelin as well.
>>64292288
>>64292229
Depends on what kind of station you're talking about. Are you guys referring to a CRR station that specializes in rock or one that just plays Top 40 from the 70s.
>>64292158
>The thing with Led Zeppelin is there are so many interesting genre crashings
Yes, there sure are. But even give it was all in early 70s, most of them still sound boring like adult rock radio.
Being an excellent guitarist and making interesting music is very different. Listening to Page's playing is like listening to Spanish guitar for me—it's good but it's just so boring, even with his experimentation.
Eddie Van Halen did recall Page being sloppy live however we also don't know when he saw him performing; for all we know it was in the second half of the 70s when Zep were burned-out drug addicts. Page circa 1971 was an absolute demon live.
>>64291699
>smackhead who thought he was a wizard
>not sloppy
Zeppelin took their fans on a journey unparalleled amongst their peers...from the grey visage of Birmingham to the sands of Kashmir...from the delta of Mississippi to the depths of Mordor...from the green glens of Wales to bar rooms of Chicago...from the heights of Valhalla to the coast of California...from the hollers of Appalachia to Hawaiian starlight...and on and on the journey rode...They truly seemed
tapped into the divine...be it dripping lemon juice, tiny flowers or the hard, hard hammers. No other band was so sexy, so hard, so
sweet, so mysterious, so primal and yet so deep all at the same time. .
>They were a critical mass of skill, passion, vision and execution...Page was not the "best" guitar player ever...but his confidence and innate ability to groove carried the day...Moreover,his vision has a band leader was matched perhaps only by Townsend...his producing skills are legendary as he weaved numerous guitars, thoughts and melodies in and out of the soundtracks of our lives...Bonham was pure brilliance in his Bombastic gluttony yet with a hint of (just a hint) of finesse...JPJones solidified the foundation with such dexterity, class and a subtle brilliance that acted as the zephyr for which the ship could sail...And Robert was
pure innocence in his passion, vanity and ability to feel the vibe...He set the standard for which all the cliches spewed forth and yet did so with a smirk and knowing "presence" that none have matched...he was 19!! 19yrs old on the first album for gosh sakes!
They had multi-track, studio inspired,ingeniously produced songs...that they would then turn around and proceed to shred
brilliantly live as a simple 4-piece band...They were one of the first "jam" bands...
They painted on a canvas that was limitless...and for impressionable young minds that is an incredibly powerful thing...No other band as truly matched the breadth...and depth that Led Zeppelin achieved in 10 short years...
>>64292495
The Song Remains the Same (concert) disagrees with you.
>>64292522
Thanks, Scaruffi.
>>64291776
>When I want folk/country music, I will much rather listen to Crosby/Stills/Nash/Young
>>64292611
>Scaruffi
prego.
>>64292377
Some obvious Led Zeppelin II and Cream riffs there, but good nevertheless, and indeed way harder
I do agree that if you listen to Physical Graffiti, it sounds very very out of touch and old fashioned against contemporary albums like Toys In The Attic and Sabotage.
>>64290328
>I always expected them to be headbanging material
Perhaps thats where you went wrong. They were not a metal band. As heavy as some of their song are thats only a small portion of their oeuvre.
That being said, they did rock pretty hard at times.
>>64292705
>Wait a second, didn't this used to be a quartet? D+
This is what Xgau thinks passes for a review.
Dammit, is it that hard to actually explain what is it you don't like about the album?
They're great, but they all of their albums sound like they were recorded in a tin.
>>64292226
Get into it for me anon
>>64292680
Kek. Christgau lives in his own world. I've seen his record recommendations. That man was quite opinionated indeed.
I'd add more musicians, but I don't know much about folk because I'm not from an English-speaking country, but I still like it. I was just saying that Page's take on folk didn't stick with me at all.
>>64292833
>>64292705
>>64292680
TBF, he admitted that he was not a big fan of the San Francisco sound (eg. CSN and Airplane)
>>64292878
>>64292863
>>64292833
His reviews are pretty terrible but often quite hilarious because the dude literally has no filter and just says the first thing that pops into his head.
>>64292816
Eh, that's quite sad for me. I won't lie—I was in it mostly because I liked '80s metal. Still it was educational listening to LZ, but I must admit a lot of the times it sounded too much like adult rock radio at its most boring.
>>64292863
>I don't know much about folk because I'm not from an English-speaking country, but I still like it. I was just saying that Page's take on folk didn't stick with me at all.
go to the source- try Joni Mithchell or Dylan- thats was Page did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TScCqHlBag0
>>64292954
>I was in it mostly because I liked '80s metal
yea- then you were bound to be disappointed...With Zep its more about the groove then the head bangin- but still I think stuff like this is pretty cool:
Pro Tip: do a bong hit first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJm8fZ6WS5Y
>>64290328
they sound weird because they were music thieves
>>64292788
Yep, and "going back" actually worked OK for some artists. For example, Stooges' Raw Power was inspired by '50s rock'n'roll, but they managed to do it well—Sex Pistols did the same later. Ramones did pretty much bubble gum pop, but it was still pretty cool.
But Physical Graffiti still sounds kinda out of place. It's like they were paving their own road back, when the rest of rock was going forward.
>>64292173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_ZsERw4pWo
See what I mean. The solos in here remind me a lot of Page on LZ II, maybe less bluesy, but the guitar tone sounds almost the same.
It's funny because my sister, she has kind of the typical Millenial POV that rock began with Motorhead and she says the Zeppelin-era stuff is too slow and you can't mosh to that.
>>64293090
>For example, Stooges' Raw Power was inspired by '50s rock'n'roll, but they managed to do it well
You can see their gradual evolution; for example Fun House came out in 1970 and sounds still very hippie psychedelic, but Raw Power three years later is much more like Alice Cooper.
>>64293090
Well, my dad said he remembered Aerosmith being dismissed as cheap copies of Zeppelin and the Stones but of course it took a while to notice that they were in fact taking rock in a new direction and became one of the main ingredients in 80s rock.
What do you guys think of Page and Plant? Their bassist said it's basically Led Zeppelin with another name.
>>64293279
Led Zeppelin's bassist that is.
>>64293144
thats funny. You can see some proto-head bangers in the front row here:
(so funny page in his sweater vest and sneakers- long way from the dragon suit)
https://vimeo.com/86442910
>>64292833
Better than any of the melon's reviews desu
>>64293144
You didn't mosh in those days, you just sat there stoned.
>>64293279
N- really isnt Zep without Bonham...and Jonesy too
- it was pretty cool at the time...for those who never saw Zep it was a chance to see Page and Plant...it was pretty different than Zep as they had an Egyptian orchestra and played Zep tunes but re-arranged etc...still worthwhile...just not Zep. I saw both tours and had a blast...
>>64293180
Fun House came out in 1970 and sounds still very hippie psychedelic
Yep, it's true it had some stuff like the title track and less so LA Blues which sounded like that.
The rest of the tracks though still sound really fresh. This album has been growing on me since my first listen, mostly because of its profound influence on alternative/punk.
I was thinking recently—Down on the Street is pretty much like Pixies' trademark loud-quiet-loud structure, except you also have Iggy and Rod Asheton sounding literally like wild animals hunting for prey. Then you have Loose with its headbanging riff which Blackmore cited as inspiration fro Smoke on the Water, and TV Eye—its crazy but I think they barely even aged. It's mind-blowing how this was recorded in 1970.
Haven't listened to Cooper much though. Maybe I should learn more about him.
>>64293066
No Quarter is one of those underrated Led Zep songs which few people talk about, but I agree it's amazing. Again, it's more psychedelic/bluesy so it sounds pretty retro (unless you a kind of guy who likes him some dank kush), but still amazing song.
>>64293221
I actually only got into Aerosmith recently. It's true they were poor at hiding where they took most of their licks from. But they had 2 key ingredients: wild energy—they often sounded faster and louder than punk—and production.
Talking about the latter, listen to their 1976 album Rocks, if you haven't yet. It predates the '80s sound by several years.
>>64293344
I actually prefer LZ I and II to most of their later material. Communication Breakdown and Whole Lotta Love rocked really hard.
>>64293363
Anyone with the smallest bit of taste can be better than cantaloupe. I seriously don't get how /mu/'s obsession with him has lasted so long—probably because there are few alternatives to him?
I understand listening to Scaruffi, who knows seemingly everything about music and who wrote books about it. Christgau too, to an extent. Next to them, Fantano is literally some random dude from the street.
>>64293608
Mostly that they invented the power ballad and Steven Tyler invented a new kind of rock vocal.
The funniest thing I ever read on the Interwebz was an old hippie idiot ranting how Zeppelin and Iggy Pop killed rock-and-roll and that there will never be as glorious an epoch of popular music again as 1955 to 69. I mean, this dude was the real deal; he talked about "You haven't truly lived life if you didn't see Airplane at the Fillmore after dropping acid."
He also seemed to have a peculiar rage at the Ramones saying "The Ramones are not rock-and-roll. I was born in the same year as Johnny Ramone yet I don't identify with their music in any way."
>>64294008
Feh. My dad was born the same year as Kurt Cobain but doesn't relate to him or his music at all.
>>64293783
That's what most people credit them for, but I think Aerosmith are often overlooked because of their '90s ballads which sound different from their "old" self.
Aside from obvious examples like Walk This Way, Sweet Emotion and so on, songs like this really showcase their metal sensibilities: https://youtu.be/jX-yuZFVm34
>>64294155
The 90s stuff was just commercial slop that they've disowned; 90% of their setlists since 2005 are from the first four albums.
>>64294008
Kek. I've seen people like this, who choose to celebrate some old epoch of music, while completely dismissing everything after it. These people often tell tales about dropping acid and all that stuff, not realizing that their experiences were completely subjective and so their stories sound pretty awkward.
>>64294277
He was going on about how, like, the 50s stuff had that boogie-woogie swing to it and Iggy Pop and those guys killed rock by making it into a flat wall of noise and emphasizing shock antics (like Little Richard wasn't the original shock rocker).
>>64294355
Well, he actually has some point which I understand. But dismissing rock to "flat wall of noise" is at least very myopic.
IMO, traditional European/American dances and beats are inherently different from African ones, and thus rock eventually shunned away all its black dance music roots. African dances require much more effort/body control, Africans also put great significance in them, while for Europeans it was mostly for giggles and shits. It couldn't last long
Zeppelin are guilty of the following atrocious and grievous crimes against music:
1. Making entire albums out of stolen blues licks and saying OH YEAH YEAH YEAH BABY BABY OH BABY 50x a song
2. Inspiring all of the overwrought hair metal/cockrock/lighter-waving arena rock bullshit
3. Releasing singles that have been played on the radio 40x every day for the last 40+ years
4. The ultimate casual, normalfag band that back in the day appealed to normalfag white suburban teens who grew up to be accountant minivan dads that tortured their kids by forcing them to listen to dadrock on the radio as they're driving them to soccer practice
Immigrant Song is on crr waaay more than Stairway to Heaven.
>>64293745
Honestly, I don't always agree with xgau, but I always enjoy reading his reviews.
>>64294155
That's an excellent song. Rocks is pretty solid all the way through. Definitely their best album.
>>64295131
He's funny at least even if he's amazingly retarded.
>>64295156
Eh, music taste is subjective anyway
>>64295151
I'd say Toys in the Attic had somewhat catchier songs which became hits, but Rocks has superior, top-notch production. In any case both are amazing.
>>64290914
Stones fucking suck. So does Cream. Boring boring garbage.
>>64292600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrXpPLUYJlE
>>64296405
That's a very nice picture of you, anon. Now go Cream your pants or something.
>>64296467
>>64296405
>>64296007
Quit arguing with yourself, moron.
>>64290328
They're the type of band that's better live then on record.
>>64296602
I am not. Go eat a dick.
>>64296602
The fuck makes you think that cockboy? Don't make me start using a trip and shitting up your threads for real.
>>64296646
I know you would like that.
No Quarter is amazing and sounds like nothing else at the time.
Is this thread a fucking joke? You know page pioneered studio recording techniques, their songs are vertically giant compared to stuff of the time, track layered onto track endlessly creating thick huge sounds. Listening to When the levee breaks holds up today easily. I would say their studio quality is one of if not their best quality.
I also think it's very cheap to criticise some of their output as stolen or to try and degrade it somewhat by stating it's imitative or unoriginal. 99% of popular music has been unoriginal for 70 years and musically, their songs are more complex than most popular stuff.
fucking virgins ITT
do you hairless boys even How the West Was Won?
bonhams skeletal left nut has more balls than lol judas priest
>>64297007
It's not just that a lot of music is unoriginal or borrowed, it's that Zeppelin straight up copied the songs note for note. Most of their catalogue is basically cover songs, albeit done way better than the originals. They're really good musicians, and yes their recording quality is top notch, I just wish they would own up to how much music they actually repackage from original songs. They don't even pay royalties or give mentions on their records. That's a douchebag move.
Coming from a big Zeppelin fan here.
>>64297531
They have what like 80 fucking songs? Could you name how many of the 80 + are copied and provide the original copied songs?
Aside from 10 seconds of Dazed and confused and Stairway to Heaven, which is an 8 minute song, I can't think of any of their songs that are the same as others musically. A few lyrics here and there yeah, but musically I'm struggling to think of more than 2 of their 80 + songs.
one thing I don't understand about a lot of classic rock 70s bands is that when they're not playing electric guitar (acoustic, or maybe just keyboards/synths etc) they can sound a lot more modern or daring but the second the amps are turned on it's 12 bar blues and pentatonic solos up in this bitch.
This applies to Zep (Babe I'm Gonna Leave You is a good example of Page sounding a lot more complex imo, even though it is a cover), or stuff like ELO had this nifty orchestration parts but then here comes a rather basic gutiar riff.
>>64297715
>I'm shocked that electric guitar dates a lot more than acoustic
>Sitting round singing songs 'til the night turns into day
>Used to sing about the mountains but the mountains washed away
>Now I'm singing all my songs to the girl who won my heart
>She is only three years old and it's a real fine way to start.
Great song about pedophilia, guys.
>>64297773
I mean it's not like it's impossible to write non-basic rock guitar lines on an electric guitar. Why didn't they apply a more variety of scales etc when they'd switch over?
>>64297798
probably about his daughter and/or pet
>>64297799
A lot of times it had to do with the constraints of your basic 4/4 beat.
>>64297798
And here's the entire song. If you'd actually paid attention to the lyrics, "the ocean" is referring to their fanbase. The "three year old girl" is another oblique reference to the fans since this album came out in 1973 which was their third year as a touring and recording act.
Singing in the sunshine, laughing in the rain
Hitting on the moonshine, rocking in the grain
Got no time to pack my bags, my foots outside the door
I got a date, I can't be late, for the high hopes hailla ball.
Singing to an ocean, I can hear the ocean's roar
Play for free, I play for me and play a whole lot more, more!
Singing about the good things and the sun that lights the day
I used to sing on the mountains, has the ocean lost its way.
I don't know.
Sitting round singing songs 'til the night turns into day
Used to sing about the mountains but the mountains washed away
Now I'm singing all my songs to the girl who won my heart
She is only three years old and it's a real fine way to start.
Oh yeah!
It sure is fine!
Ah blow my mind!
Oh when the tears are goin' down!
Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!
Ooh so good!
>>64297715
Unless it's like the Rolling Stones where they always just played ersatz Chuck Berry so avoid sounding as "period" as Zeppelin or Deep Purple.
>>64297773
Just as the 70s had boogie woogie funk guitar, the 80s had shredder solos and the 90s-2000s had ultra low, heavy riffs.
>>64297007
>I also think it's very cheap to criticise some of their output as stolen or to try and degrade it somewhat by stating it's imitative or unoriginal. 99% of popular music has been unoriginal for 70 years and musically, their songs are more complex than most popular stuff.
The point is not really in this. Page often took outdated music, 12-bar-blues for example, without adding nothing new to it, at the time when prog was already a thing. His music sounds outdated even next to Cream.
Things were happening in music at that time. Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, King Crimson, Hendrix, Sabbath all were at the forefront pushing boundaries of sound, but Led Zeppelin kept it as safe as possible, sticking with Muddy Waters/Howling Wolf-inspired sound at their most progressive, writing texts like "BABYBABYBABY I WANNA BE YO BACKDOOR MAN".
There is of course LZIV which at least showed some progress with When The Levee breaks drum sound. But then there are folk tunes which no one cared about, old blues again, and of course Stairway to Heaven, the most overrated song ever written, which sounded like it should've come out in the '60s, or better never come out at all.
Never mind that Page was no melodic genius too. Few LZ songs actually have very interesting melodies, especially written by Page. No interesting chord changes too.
>>64298172
And of course by 1975, they were releasing PG which sounded almost antediluvian compared to the albums Aerosmith and Kiss had out that year.
>>64297679
Google is your friend
https://youtu.be/zTz_iX_L0VA
https://youtu.be/tiiY4ciKFQA
And of course who could forget Taurus—Spirit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd8AVbwB_6E
>>64298172
I'm not kidding. Listen to The Ocean and the solos sound like Howlin' Wolf circa 1961.
>>64298290
To be honest, I do enjoy The Ocean, at least Page added up some distortion. But the tune is obviously straight up old blues, without a single change. Sound like '80s commercial music: nice sound, but worn out melody.
PG stuff like Boogie with Stu and Black Country Woman are the best examples of everything I hate about Led Zep. It doesn't get more backwards than that. I'd understand if he used old blues licks but sonstructed songs form them, made progress.
>>64298253
Eg. Not one decent melody on here and it still sounds like 50s Chicago blues. The lyrics are very simplistic and juvenile and are basically just The Lemon Song 2.0. Also the mixing is almost as fuzzy as on LZ II years earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGPRJ2Khwmo
Now here's Kiss - C'mon And Love Me from the same year. This has vastly better production especially considering they were dirt poor at the time and didn't have Zeppelin's huge resources. Ace's solos, while a bit bluesy, don't sound egregiously so, nor is he copying Muddy Waters lick-for-lick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjMYTRJxXOQ
Aerosmith - Sweet Emotion. Much better mixing again, also notice the clever effects like the distortion box in the beginning. The guitars, vocal melodies, and lyrics are well above the Zeppelin song I linked as well and again don't sound like oldskool Chicago blues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvezjDat48U
>>64297715
This I also don't get. My guess is: everyone simply was too afraid to go beyond commercially safe territory of Led Zep and Stones. Don't forget it was '70s, 'indie' wasn't a thing, so bands had less freedom.
>>64297773 this too. Old amps had very specific sound which has aged kinda badly. As >>64298156 said, every period had its own popular guitar 'flavors'. Amps were still being developed too, it was the time when technology was still improving.
In fact, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You is on of my favorite LZ songs. Which I can't say about other LZ acoustic songs though.
>>64290328
Answer: Integrity.
>>64298172
you've never listened to Led Zeppelin?
they have plenty of progressive songs that go away from blues like muddy waters
your time is gonna come has a wonderful church/folk feel to it, No Quarter is as progressive as the 70s got and is fantastic, since I've been loving you manages to exude blues while being a pretty complex jazz piece, Achilles last stand is a hugely influential song with a basic jazz rhythm core, they have dozens of folk songs that are pretty far away from blues style, things like in the light and friends that are more new wave than blues, fucking dyer mak'er that's a reggae song, Kashmir is definitely eastern influenced,
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about with the music there, for example, ten years gone has a pretty complex chord structure, and most of zepp's songs are powered by page's riffs, whole lotta love, moby dick, no quarter, good times bad times, heartbreaker, over the hills and far away, ramble on, bring it on home all have great melodic themes and what's more, have multiple great melodies
they have 87 songs and a huge range amongst them
>>64298686
This. I have extensively listened to all three songs before. The difference is immediately obvious. And what Aerosmith did on Rocks beat all that too.
I still don't get why LZ had such a fucked up sound quality. There's just no other word for it and no justification for it.
>>64298819
>This I also don't get. My guess is: everyone simply was too afraid to go beyond commercially safe territory of Led Zep and Stones. Don't forget it was '70s, 'indie' wasn't a thing, so bands had less freedom.
Yeh there was a certain sound and look you had to have. In the 80s for example, if you were gonna be a rock star, you had to have huge hair and play shredder guitar. That's how it was.
>>64298819
>said, every period had its own popular guitar 'flavors'.
Not just guitar types, but the tones and playing styles used. Certain chord progressions can also date a song.
>>64290328
Ziggy Stardust sounds like shit tho.
>>64298686
Important because the first two Zep albums might be excused due to the band just starting out and not having a lot of money to play with, but by Physical Graffiti they were rich jetsetting rock stars. Yet still awful mixing.
>>64291563
My ninja, also this one is like a better version of Since I've Been Loving You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgfXPlpneyE
One thing that always seemed slightly comical to me were British dudes slobbering over American folk/traditional music. It would be like Grand Funk Railroad doing Bron-Yr-Aur.
And admittedly a lot of 70s prog was centered around traditional folk music of the British Isles (Genesis and Jethro Tull did tons of it) but then you had Keith Richards worshiping American bluesmen and country singers and wanting to be them.
>>64299151
Country rock was a big thing in the 70s. Xgau called it "the new counterculture" where the rebel had become the rugged individualist instead of the collectivist 60s communal idea. Eagles, REO Speedwagon, Doobie Brothers, Aerosmith, they all defined this period fad.
And of course actual country artists like Merle Haggard, Willie Nelson, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Waylon Jennings were at their zenith during that era.
>>64298946
>hey have dozens of folk songs that are pretty far away from blues style
Many of those copy songs from years before, which no one really cared about. They didn't introduce anything new to them. It's simply songs played by Page, he didn't add no effects, no drum beat, no other new sounds to them.
> dyer mak'er
LZ themselves said it was bad and inderwritten.
> Your Time Is Gonna Come
One of the more progressive songs from the underrated LZ self-titled album, and they haven't done much like it since then
> No Quarter is as progressive as the 70s got and is fantastic
It's just what was popular at the time, for several years before them. They were late to hop the wagon.
> Achilles Last Stand
It's one of LZ's more forward thinking songs, I agree.
But they never followed any of these progressive attempts, they just did them kinda half-seriously, you know. After every progressive song you usually had 2 blues fillers.
>>64298960
>And what Aerosmith did on Rocks beat all that too
The fast-tempoed Rats In The Cellar sounds like an early start to 80s metal.
The impression I get is that Zeppelin's legend comes more from their live shows than their studio work, a bit like the Grateful Dead.
>>64299250
>>64299151
The prog band fixation with old folk music was just the British version of that 70s country rock fad you mention.
>>64299034
The drums are not punchy, but the vocals are pretty clear, there are no echoes, overall sound is not as muddy. What really makes it is buzzing, crisp, high-pitched guitars. And mind you—Bowie was also pretty backwards in the early '70s, perhaps on par if not more than LZ.
>>64298819
>Old amps had very specific sound which has aged kinda badly
During the recording of BSSM, Rick Rubin had John Frusciante playing on vintage 60s equipment to try and recreate that tinny period sound.
>>64299286
examples of folk songs that LZ copied?
>>64299446
do you know if it was remastered or sth?
>>64299446
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q64aVDA-s3U
Rod Stewart also sounded quite...well, backwards.
>>64299541
Well, now that's a typical 70s country rock number like I mentioned. Although this is at the very start of the decade, you can already see that trend having arrived.
>>64291033
Yeah, Led Zeppelin has really aged quite poorly, especially compared to Black Sabbath, the original Sabbath vinyl pressings sound awesome and have aged great no matter how you look at them
>>64299789
The one exception maybe is War Pigs as it suffers a bit from echo/reverb and of course the subject matter.
>>64299540
https://youtu.be/MMNUcJ-ZpfI
Uploader claims it's 1972 vinyl. I see what you mean—they could probably emphasize high end in typical '90s/CD master fashion. But this one sounds pretty similar to me, slightly warmer but it's vinyl after all.
>>64299541
That's a very pretty song. It's too bad nobody remembers this stuff anymore and people only know him for his horrible Top 40 hits like Do Ya Think I'm Sexy.
>>64291699
this is one thing that comes up regularly and I'm not sure why - I'm not sure how anyone could listen to the guitar solo of Whole Lotta Love and come out thinking that Page was some high-precision technical master
now, the sloppiness fits in well with that blues feel and all, so this is not intended to be some ultimate put down of Page, and I think it's part of his appeal that he's a bit fast and loose compared to someone else from that period like John McLaughlin (who is also sloppy like Page in fast passages often) or Tony Iommi or technical hero guitarists like Steve Vai or Adrian Belew who would come on the scene shortly
>>64299961
Whole Lotta Love is one Zeppelin song that doesn't sound backwards for its time; it sounds exactly like 1969 psychedelic rock.
>>64299662
>>64299541
That's a great, very electric sound. Note the production is like several levels above Led Zep.
By saying Bowie was backwards, I mean stuff like this: https://youtu.be/G1loH-YvTDY
I was reading a review of this album once, and its author mentioned this: the song starts with an excellent, progressive riff, and then just 5 seconds later we hear piano and the average Chuck Berry rock'n'roll. Even buzzsaw guitars couldn't save it.
He did great job since 1976 though, it ws his golden streak with Station to Station and Berlin trilogy, but that's another story.
>>64299789
Sabbath pretty much established canons of metal. Stuff like thinner strings Tony Iommi used, drop D tuning and minor/atonal harmonies still define most metal.
>>64299904
> Do Ya Think I'm Sexy.
It has killer drumming from Carmine Appice though.
>>64299904
Rod Stewart up to 1975 was a god. Then he became a teenybopper icon and totally lost it (though Maggie May provides an early preview of where he was headed).
>>64299504
https://youtu.be/zTz_iX_L0VA first one for example, also see 05:56, I'm sure I've seen more.
>>64300155
>>64299904
Rod himself even hates that song.
>>64300268
Jesus Christgau
No, this is just ridiculous. He ignores some of the most influential albums ever.
Even the post-Ozzy Sabbath has mostly held up quite well except the token commercial tracks off those albums like Trashed, which are more dated.
>>64300405
Not surprising with such lyrics. Bowie used to say he was fed up of people who said, "Hey Bowie, let's dance!". Cobain hated Smells Like Teen Spirit too, because he was sick of people telling him to play that song.
Personally, I think the song goes too hard on disco sound, but I have warm memories of it so I like it. The lyrics are still cheesy though.
>>64300549
Jimi Hendrix got bored as hell of Purple Haze...
>>64300537
True. I decided to take a listen to Heaven or Hell with my expectations set as low as possible. The first song started and I thought, "holy shit, what is this? They took a huge leap forward". Still one of my favorite Sabbath albums, with songs like Children of the Sea and Neon Knights.
>>64300609
He's got to be the only person on the planet who thinks ITTOD wasn't horrible diarrhea shit out by a dying band on its last legs.
I think you're sense of time is warped a little bit.
As far as the muddy production, they generally have a very loose, live, hothouse kind of sound. As people who lived the blues (and "stole" a lot of it), this was integral to their style.
I'm not sure what you're saying about John Paul Jones' bass? Elaborate.
As for the blues--that is Zeppelin. The blues are timeless. Even today, people want to hear the blues. Additionally, you're kind of wrong? Zeppelin was pretty clean-cut blues for their first two records, but they sure did a lot of branching out from III onward. Listen to Kashmir, Bron yr aur, No Quarter or Tangerine and tell me it's just a sweaty blues rehash.
Not defending Zep (and especially not their later material) but you need to dig a little deeper buddy. Your opinions aren't shitty, but it's clear that you need to go in a little more.
>>64299904
but Jorge Ben's Taj Mahal he ripped off is great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3xFKwH-EwI
>>64300662
Again that album has aged very well too aside from perhaps Neon Knights since it was intended to be commercial.
>>64300660
Yeah, I guess at some point every overplayed song inevitably becomes like Wonderwall.
>>64291033
Black Sabbath has aged just as poorly. At least people can relate to the blues, whereas a lot of BS material is preeeetttyyyyy hokey. Not that it's bad music, but it's literally just as fucking silly as anything Zepp ever did.
>>64291699
It's more evident in live tracks.
>>64300721
Yep, but I also like how it contrasts with most stuff Sabbath was known for before, riding on full speed forward, perfectly capturing their huge step forward.
Painkiller (song) was pretty similar in this vein. That drum intro says in a way, "You asked for a new drummer? Well, take a load of this".
>>64300770
Metal is supposed to be abstract, escapist music and not necessarily grounded in realism. That's why people like Xgau don't like it. They believe everything should be as simple and direct as possible.
>>64292428
What kind of station do you get the plays Top 40 from the 70s? You get to hear Muskrat Suzy and Muskrat Sam, and shit? You get some old Sylvers singles? Maybe A Taste of Honey?
Top 40 from the 70s is not what you think. Acting like Iron Man and Paranoid aren't CRR staples is...weird? Like, why lie?
>>64300662
the first song starts - "holy shit, is this Motörhead from two or three years before"
Incredible, this almost sounds like Judas Priest's British Steel (although worse) or Rainbow's Difficult to Cure! (OK, that came out in the next year)
In any case Heaven & Hell pretty much sounds like the unfortunate time period it came out in and not in any particularly positive way.
>>64297679
You need to dig around Chicago and Delta blues. Playing or re-working a song is one thing, but crediting yourself is another. All they did in their early records was play fucking blues standards.
>>64300866
Any time I've been out in a store and they had an oldies station on, it was practically always Top 40. So lots of Carpenters, Three Dog Night, and disco tunes.
>>64300857
Yeah that's fine. I was just retorting to the poster implying that either band hasn't aged ridiculously.
>>64291617
This does piss me off, my local CRR does a group block thing on the weekends and whenever they play Black Sabbath it's always Paranoid, some shit live version of Iron Man and maybe Heaven & Hell.
>>64300952
Oldies are kind of a different animal.
>>64297007
>Is this thread a fucking joke?
yes it is, full of underage try-hard black sabbath fans
seriously, black sabbath is plebshit and people here talking like t was some great shit, cme on
Judas Priest especially on the early albums set the bar for stupefyingly dated sounds. Aside from Hell Bent For Leather which has held up great.
>>64301056
Is that you, Christgau?
>>64300691
I stopped taking Christgau seriously when he gave a B+ to Done With Mirrors after whining many times before that about misogyny in rock.
>>64300718
> I'm not sure what you're saying about John Paul Jones' bass? Elaborate.
I'm kinda used to heavy bass lines in hard rock, but JPJ made it more groovy and danceable, and it kinda clashes with what I'm used to in rock.
> As for the blues--that is Zeppelin. The blues are timeless. Even today, people want to hear the blues. Additionally, you're kind of wrong? Zeppelin was pretty clean-cut blues for their first two records, but they sure did a lot of branching out from III onward. Listen to Kashmir, Bron yr aur, No Quarter or Tangerine and tell me it's just a sweaty blues rehash.
I like blues a lot. I used to be skeptical about it, but then I heard Stones "Prodigal Son". That's how I discovered Rev. Robert Wilkins and it was fantastic.
But see, that's the thing. This song has a pretty interesting melody with atonality, great rhythm, unorthodox structure and beat. This is precisely what makes blues interesting for me.
I've answered this to other people: the problem is that Page simply played blues. That's it. He often didn't add to it, alter it much. Almost every "experiment" he did was a one-shot. In terms of melodies structure most of their work comes nowhere near prog. In terms of effects he's no Hendrix. In terms of production LZ is not Pink Floyd.
Bron yr aur, No Quarter or Tangerine reminds me of those country-themed burgers you find in some chains. Page tried to play everything and sounded like other people. Tangerine is a good song but it's pretty Neil Young-esque stuff, something very '60s when this kind of music could still fly as fresh. So is No Quarter, but again—it's LZ trying to sound like other bands, do what other bands do.
Kashmir is one of the better LZ songs, but again this is an example of exotic-flavored rock, when it's painfully easy structure is immediately obvious when you play it—first we go up the scale, and in the chorus we go down. That said, it uses an interesting tuning, but what makes it is the orchestration.
>>64300873
Yeah, I kind of agree with you on this. It wasn't really original, it was the sound of Black Sabbath catching up. But I didn't expect much more. Few artists can constantly reinvent themselves, and you have to be Fripp/Eno kind of genius to do this. Sabbath was running through their second decade in the 1980s, many musicians burn out even sooner.
Plus, Tony Iommi could write some tunes. It was somewhat obvious they wouldn't make it in the '90s with metal changing every year. But it's not like Sabbath didn't still play good music, they were losing relevancy but that's almost a given with any band.
>>64301460
Like I explained, lots of bands of this period did blues such as the Rolling Stones, ZZ Top, Grand Funk Railroad, and Aerosmith, but they put their own unique spin on it.
>>64301601
Sabbath were years behind by 1980 thanks to becoming useless drug addicts during 76-79.
