/classical/
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Classical music is so evidently superior to all other kinds of music, yet we keep lowering the standards when we talk about other types of music, to avoid the uncomfortable situation where the butt rock dude or the druggy EDM boy gets anal pained when they are told the great masters are better than their shitty hedonistic hero.
Instead of white guilt, in the music world there is "classical" guilt. We keep lowering the standards for other kinds of music to compensate and preserve our dream of marxist culturalism. Of perfect musical relativism. Guess what? It isn't true and the compositional talent and imagination displayed, which is all that counts in the end when we have to say what is worth being saved and what not, is infinitely superior in classical music than in any other form of music.
If your shitty pop muzak is an 8 what the fuck are Beethoven's late string quartets? a 400? most music is barely a 1 to 3, the Beatles fall in here and so do most other popular music with very few exceptions that reach a 4, even a 5. Bartok string quartets would be a 6, 2 degrees of magnitude higher you have works by Brahms and other great masters. Then 9 and 10 are reserved for the highest achievements of human race like Beethoven's late string quartets or his Missa Solemnis or Mass in B minor by Bach or his Brandenburg Concertos.
I'm just waiting on Views From The 6, senpai
>>63836531
I bet Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven have wrote anything as good as Toto's Africa
>>63836531
>>63836580
i meant NEVER wrote anything as good
FUCK FUCK WHY AM I SO FUCKING STUPID FUCK I HATE MYSELF
>>63836531
I generally agree that modern artists don't stand in the same league as Beethoven or Mozart, but i don't really put classical music itself on a pedestal. Classical music is still in abundance, but what's missing are the great individualist creators of the past. All of the greatest musical creators [the ones we currently know of] of the past happen to be classical composers because that was the only means of preserving your legacy. If the audio recorder had been invented 300 years sooner would the pen & paper tradition of classical music been as dominant? Would Chopin even have bothered composing? I've heard stories of Chopin's improvisations being greater than his written compositions. It also makes me wonder how many great talents, who were never taught to write musical notation, had the misfortune of not living in the age of the recorder and their ideas were forever lost.
>>63836531
>Classical music is so evidently superior to all other kinds of music
How so?
for each of his symphonies, who are the best Mahler conductors?
>>63837221
9th - walter/giulini/barbirolli/bernstein/horenstein/abbado
>>63836625
OP here. Case in point.
Who else /cannons/ here?
http://youtu.be/VbxgYlcNxE8
>>63836531
>muh classical
A shitty pleb kitsch soulless period in western art music. Classical and romantic music is awful compared to Baroque and Modern art music and you should probably off yourself 2bh fampai. Musical equivalent of doilies and porcelain dolls.
>>63836531
are you the guy that was complaining about some dilettante a few days ago
>>63837503
>Muh baroque
Literally faggy bourgeois music
>>63837583
Since OP is posting copypasta from several years ago, I'd say maybe?
>>63837331
further proof Maderna is underrated
>>63837221
>who are the best Mahler conductors?
vaclav neumann. please just get it over with as quickly as possible !!
ded
>>63837221
Maderna, Horenstein, Walter, Mengelberg, Kubelik.
>>63837187
underrated master post
>he thinks he can talk to nihilists about anything remotely concerning objectivity
>2016
yeah good luck with that OP
>>63836531
Young Thug > Bach
>>63836531
People often assume that, because classical music sounds awesome and is intellectually superior, it is aesthetically superior, and that just isn't so.
>>63839924
>aesthetically superior
I hate this meme
>>63839924
proof?
>>63839924
>intellectually superior
>aesthetically superior
Can you elaborate on the difference between these?
>>63839944
Classical composers before Beethoven create music almost purely in the aesthetics of European music. Before Beethoven, composers did not create personal, individualist aesthetics, they contributed to a social aesthetic. Romantic era composers began to create more individualist musical languages, that were still ultimately based on social aesthetics. 20th century era composers yet again take creating personal aesthetics to a further level. The great works of post-60s recorded popular music takes this to the furthest level yet in human history. It is almost purely the art of inventing musical languages/personal aesthetics.
>>63840016
An aesthetic is the thing that defines the character of a composer's work. The sound of the instruments, the existence of sophisticated rhythm or harmony, the form, etc.. The difference between Balinese music and Baroque era music or Indian music and Classical era music.
>>63840016
When I say intellectually superior, I am trying to say that creating classical music literally takes knowledge, an understanding of a system of music theory, and creating elegant and intellectually stimulating abstract structures within that and sometimes trying to make those written abstractions sound beautiful.
>>63837208
Its written by trained composers. They actually know what they're doing beyond "it sounds good"
>>63837444
fugues > canons
>>63839924
it fulfills all 3 of those criteria for me. Perhaps you're just a pleb?
>>63840582
Shut up and quit posting.
None of us like your opinions.
Final warning.
>>63837444
One of Tchaikovsky's best. I've always wondered how Tchaikovsky wrote score for Cannons. You can't really tune them or change notes and pitches.
>>63840582
What sort of training is required?
>>63840606
>Final warning.
Some piano.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPRiM5JvYx8
>>63840627
Counterpoint, harmony, form, score study, etc.
the subject overall is called "composition"
A knowledge of music history as well is a must. Some knowledge of ethnomusicology and traditional music will help as well.
I wouldn't call someone a trained composer unless they had a music degree. Even then I might go as far as looking for a masters degree in composition.
>>63840692
some more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkhQ6iud_TE
>>63840608
The same way your write for bass drum, triangle, snare drum and other "untuned" percussion (even though snares and bass drums can technically be tuned): you just have 1 line, and you put an X on the line when you want the player to play. Cannons fire pretty much instantaneously so should be no issues with lag.
>>63840950
>Counterpoint, harmony, form, score study, etc.
>the subject overall is called "composition"
There are rock musicians who study that though
>>63841016
good, they're trained composers.
Next question is: do they write art music?
Do they store their music primarily in a written score, with intentions to be performed in a the concert hall?
If so: its art music
If not, and they primarily store their music on recordings for mass consumption and sales: its popular music
Is classical music best absorbed in the live setting?
>>63841071
>Next question is: do they write art music?
Nice backpedaling.
>If not, and they primarily store their music on recordings for mass consumption and sales: its popular music
I see tons of classic music CDs for sale, primarily sold in that fashion, for mass consumption.
Any good places to download some classical stuff? /t/ Has some torrents but they are fuckhuge.
>poly v. other plebs general
>Amepasta but no Ame image
Shit thread.
>>63841228
What.cd, rutracker, the /classical/ mega links, blogs like classicalpippo9 and meetinginmusic.
>>63841107
yes. recordings can't capture the experience of being in the same acoustic space as a performer or ensemble.
>>63841175
classical CDs are usually released by recording companies, not composers, and usually released long after a composers death. Yes classical can be packaged for mass consumption, but it still starts with a written score, which helps it retain an edge over popular music, where the music is written for a band, they record the music once and thats it. Scores can be interpreted over and over again, studied, analyzed, and performed anywhere in the world by musicians that aren't the original composer.
>>63841384
>classical CDs are usually released by recording companies
Same logic applies to rock/pop
>but it still starts with a written score
Rock/pop can also stand as a written score.
>they record the music once and thats it
Incorrect. rock/pop musicians perform all the time, on tour.
>Scores can be interpreted over and over again, studied, analyzed, and performed anywhere in the world by musicians that aren't the original composer.
Same with rock/pop.
>>63836531
IMO, the ultimate test of music is whether people still care about 1000 years from now. Better yet 10000 years from now. Better yet 100000 years from now. Repeat ad infinitum.
How much training is needed to compose it is pretty independent of that. I don't love the Beatles, but there are people who love them as much as you love Bach and Beethoven, and as long as that's true they'll be remembered.
Anyway, in the end we'll all be dust.
>>63841457
well if a piece of music is written by a trained composer, on a score, with a strong emphasis on form and theoretical aspects(counterpoint, harmony, serialism etc), its art music.
Pretty simple really. most popular music lacks the quality needed to attain art music level. Its repetitive, it doesn't develop material, it uses bland forms like intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-outro. It doesn't look at the bigger picture, instead delivering 3 minute "hits" for the radio, and to attempt to attain fame.
Most composers of art music tend to be more interested in writing excellent music than getting on the radio or becoming famous They dont tour because it takes up precious writing time, instead leaving the touring to orchestras and other players. There are a few exceptions of touring composers, but they tend to be worked to the bone all day every day.
>>63841764
>well if a piece of music is written by a trained composer, on a score, with a strong emphasis on form and theoretical aspects(counterpoint, harmony, serialism etc), its art music.
So rock music can be art music.
>most popular music lacks the quality needed
How is quality measured?
>Most composers of art music tend to be more interested in writing excellent music than getting on the radio or becoming famous
Like indie rock bands.
>They dont tour because it takes up precious writing time, instead leaving the touring to orchestras and other players
Where do they get the money to live on, while composing?
>>63841071
the assumption that all popular music is based on viability for mass consumption is outdated and detached from reality. the term was invented before the general scope of what recorded music would become was realized.
>>63841872
>How is quality measured?
use of counterpoint, use of selected techniques like serialism, economy of material, development of material, interesting form, etc. There is a measure of musical quality, you usually need to look at the score to work it out though. most popular music doesn't really warrant analysis. You can work out what they're doing just by listening.
>So rock music can be art music.
by all means show me some "rock" written by a trained composer that only exists as a score, from which recordings or performances can be made.
>Where do they get the money to live on, while composing?
commissions, composer in residence positions, grants.
Unlike popular musicians composers have a large network in place to allow them to just write, without having to tour all the time to make money.
>>63842084
>use of counterpoint, use of selected techniques like serialism, economy of material, development of material, interesting form, etc
How is that measured? How is "interesting" measured?
>most popular music doesn't really warrant analysis.
A good enough listener can do that for any piece of music, period.
>by all means show me some "rock" written by a trained composer
Well we alreday established many rock musicians major in music. I know several of them.
>that only exists as a score
Give me a citation that this is a specific qualifier, and not just an effect of an antiquated medium of storing musical ideas.
>commissions
So they do it for money.
Music is best when you can relate to it. Classical music is hard for the masses to relate to. It's not made by or for the masses.
Sure, say that classical is "objectively better" or whatever, but I don't give a fuck because I will enjoy it less because I can't relate as easily to the emotional content of it. It's not about me. Sometimes I actually feel like rock is about me, even though I know that's logically absurd. But it's a good feeling.
>>63837591
>implying baroque music is "bourgeois" and not the music of kings
Maximum pleb
>>63837812
I listened to this a few weeks ago and it was amazing, definitely one of the best Mahler 9s. I wanted to listen to some more Maderna in other repetoire but it seems like not much of it is uploaded. I only found some Mozart on rutracker.
>>63842441
>How is [counterpoint, techniques, form] measured? How is "interesting" measured?
if you knew how counterpoint and form worked, you'd know. Interesting form is things like sonata form, fugues, ternary form, rondo form, suites, and hybrids of all of those. It goes beyond the basic structure of a piece and relates the material of the piece to the form of the piece in a very tight micro-macro relationship.
>Give me a citation that this is a specific qualifier, and not just an effect of an antiquated medium of storing musical ideas.
Art music is written for the concert hall. That usually entails having a score and being performed by live musicians that aren't the composer.
>So they do it for money.
A commission is more like a patron asking you to write a piece, usually at your own discretion. Its the opposite of doing something for money. The original intention is to create a work of art, not to produce profit. The money from the commission merely covers the time and effort that goes into creating a piece, and allows the composer to focus on writing it.
Many composers also lecture at college/universities and get involved with composition workshops and seminars.
Thats another thing that seems to set popular musicians apart from classical ones: they dont hold focus groups and formal gatherings where they discuss new techniques, or rehearse and perform new works, at the dissection of their peers. Its these kind of workshops that help composers grow and get to grips with writing for specific instruments and learn new techniques. From what I've seen of the band world (I played in various genres of bands for 10+ years, as well as producing) no such thing exists beyond having a beer with some buddies and talking about your favorite albums. Classical musicians are serious about their art, making music a full time study, even if they're not at university, they're still be learning new techniques, trying new forms, and learning more about music history.
>>63844156
His Schumann and Mendelssohn are both great.
>>63842084
>you usually need to look at the score to work it out though. most popular music doesn't really warrant analysis. You can work out what they're doing just by listening.
If we're talking about the broad definition of "popular music", it often takes rigorous analysis to understand what is really going on (due to the complex dissonances of electric guitar and tape loops, etc.) and determine the merits of rock/pop artists (i.e. if they are competent in handling and utilizing those dissonances).
>>63846513
not really. any competent composer can listen to a pop song and easily say "they're doing X Y and Z" and point out some rising semitone bass, or major cadences.
But the same isn't true with a Bach fugue for example. You can listen all you like, but you would never work out what's going on.
>>63845804
Debussy too
you are making me sick, elitist scum. you know nothing about music, from how you are thinking i am 100% positive that you do not listen to classical for the enjoyment of it but to appear or even just feel like you are culturally superior. guess what, you're not, you're a reactionary fucking dweeb.
i hope you'll enjoy your long-lasting virginity.
>>63848516
can't we have all 3? enjoy classical and feel superior, and get laid?
>>63848593
of course you will "enjoy classical" in a sense when it makes you feel superior. getting laid with that attitude though, very unlikely.
>>63848632
I do legitimately enjoy classical. Probably why I feel superior to people that can't seem to fathom someone enjoying it. Do you really think that no one actually enjoys classical and only "listens" just to feel superior? you're deluded if that's the case. Classical is one of the most enjoyable, varied and detailed genres there is.
Its seems clear you can't appreciate classical. some people never do. Just carry on with your life, no sense trying to belittle people that like things you dont.
What other artists are like Philip Glass and Steve Reich?
>>63849844
Andriessen, Riley, and Adams
>>63848873
>Do you really think that no one actually enjoys classical and only "listens" just to feel superior?
no. i think that people who would argue, like OP, that classical is somehow intrinsically more artistically valuable than other music, do.
>>63849913
thanks
What cadence have I created here? (If this is the wrong thread, please let me know.)
For all those who want to explore classical music, I recommend the book "The Essential Canon of Classical Music" by Dubal.
>>63841764
>well if a piece of music is written by a trained composer, on a score, with a strong emphasis on form and theoretical aspects(counterpoint, harmony, serialism etc), its art music.
This is an arbitrary criterion invented by desperate people to distance themselves from popular music after all the relevant criteria had been fulfilled. The storage format of music is irrelevant.
Be a man and admit it: you find music with electric guitars and drum kits icky because you believe yourself to be patrician by clinging to a pseudoaristocratic aesthetic.
>>63842084
>counterpoint, use of selected techniques like serialism, economy of material, development of material, interesting form
Counterpoint has existed for centuries, anyone can do it. Serialism is a more recent development but it is still common in nearly all major genres of popular music. I'd even argue that Jazz musicians do a better job with it seeing as they improvise. Most experimental art music is vapid trash these days. "hurr I'm going to draw a dick on the score and see how it sounds"
>economy of material, development of material, interesting form
"classical music is good because it is good"
>>63841899
I liked this post.
Jazz > white trash music made for obese aristocrats
>>63850235
holy shit BTFO
>>63850375
>implying jazz wasn't created by Beethoven
>implying Beethoven wasn't black
>So basically I'm better than you
>I just know that I'm musical elite, and did I tell you I was better already?
>What else... Oh yeah, I'm better than you.
>So what if I'm fifteen?! I'm mentally older!
>I totally didn't find Beethoven last year when I started thinking that I must reach next level of hipster.
>I didn't find Beethoven and Mozart because I was surfing on internet and some guys recommended them to me, I'm just so much better than you so I found them last year by accident.
>>63850375
"white" classical music > negro moanings over demented saxophone farts
>>63850913
>Beethoven
>Mozart
>hip
>>63836531
God, please have sex.
I suppose this is one way to keep the threads from dying; just put in Ame bait in the OP and see the arguments and posts fly in.
>>63850235
>Be a man and admit it: you find music with electric guitars and drum kits icky because you believe yourself to be patrician by clinging to a pseudoaristocratic aesthetic.
I actually enjoyed music with electric guitars and drum kits for many years. I just grew out of it. Popular music is just boring compared to what trained composers can produce
>>63850235
>Serialism is a more recent development but it is still common in nearly all major genres of popular music
You know this isn't true. Show me a pop song with a 12 tone row
>Most experimental art music is vapid trash these days. "hurr I'm going to draw a dick on the score and see how it sounds"
You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Economy of material, development of material and use of form are real things, you should look them up. They are devices that can help music become more than just riffs and verse-chorus-verse.
Why are pop musicians so averse to learning?
>>63850375
Jazz is essentially dumbed down classical. It uses all the classical chords, but neglects most of the formalism, and stays away from things like serialism or other extended instrumental techniques (beyond the honk).
>>63850913
inferiority complex: the post
>>63852517
>You know this isn't true. Show me a pop song with a 12 tone row
Black Flag - The Process of Weeding Out
>>63853921
eh Ginn isn't classically trained. I doubt he actually knows what to do with a tone row, and that song was described as " 12-tone experimental music" which probably just means playing whatever dissonant notes you like.
There is a line between untrained people "experimenting" and trained composers using techniques successfully.
Also punk falls into a category slightly outside popular music, where they dont give a shit about profits, or fame, or music. The music exists purely as a vehicle for their angst. It doesn't really warrant closer study, its just untrained plebs thrashing out.
>>63854290
How do we stop this musical anarchy? Now any proletarian can pick up an instrument and play without any training at all. I wish there was laws stopping this but we just live in different times.
>tfw we will never go back to the classical era
hold me ;__;
>>63854290
It's been a long time since I heard it but I'm pretty sure it was written in the same 12-tone technique as Schoenberg's.
>>63841071
These posts are incorrect because there is a lot of music that does not use any of the components needed to write skillful classical music, and sometimes is so unskillful that 10 year olds can both compose and play it, that is still much, much better than nearly all classical music.
>>63852517
>more than just riffs and verse-chorus-verse.
Mozart was all riffs and verse-chorus-verse tho
>>63836531
Keep in mind that the intellectual complexity of a piece is independent of it's aesthetic value. For instance, I could implement a type of composition in which one needs knowledge of analytic number theory to select the time scale changes, large scale data structures to select the notes, and combinatorics to select the instruments. A piece might even be genius and be very, very bad music.
The discord stems from a dilemma in which aesthetic value is not in concordance with intellectual value.
>>63854603
>A piece might even be genius and be very, very bad music.
then it's not a genius piece, just a piece of mechanical talent
>>63854603
>For instance, I could implement a type of composition in which one needs knowledge of analytic number theory to select the time scale changes, large scale data structures to select the notes, and combinatorics to select the instruments.
Kek. Is this a joke?
Can you believe this pasta is 3 or 4 years old and people still fall for it?
>>63854784
Yes, because the people falling for it are popfags.
>>63852517
>I just grew out of it.
And I grew out of pseudointellectualism a long time ago.
>Popular music is just boring compared to what trained composers can produce
You're implying there's a limit on what popular musicians can produce, and that there is no limit on what composers with degrees can produce. This is bullshit. You can do literally anything with a DAW and internet access.
>>63852517
>You know this isn't true
but it is. Bill Evans did it, Muhal Richard Abrams did it. Zappa did it.
For every good modern composer there are three who use techniques like serialism to hide the fact they can't compose for shit, and they rely on people like you who don't know the difference between good and bad to say "it's not bad you just don't get it, just read some serialism bruh"
It doesn't take a genius to put, idk, silent night in inverted retrograde with serialised rhythms. It just takes a hack with enough people who are afraid to say the emperor has no clothes.
>Why are pop musicians so averse to learning?
In my college the jazz musicians usually have a better grasp of theory than the classical. Not to mention being able to actually play the fucking instruments they claim to.
>Economy of material, development of material and use of form are real things, you should look them up.
Yes and they happen in literally all music. All music has a form, verse-chorus-verse can have varying forms depending on how the song is structured.. All music has material, all music is more or less economical with it, and all music has development of the form to greater or lesser degrees. You're just spewing jargon you have a vague understanding of you pseud.
> neglects most of the formalism
Or rejects it, being an improvisational art form. All the formalism in the world won't buy you talent.
>and stays away from things like serialism
>muh serialism
You're like a walking caricature.
complexity=/= quality. If you can't write simple music well then you can't write good music well.
>>63854351
A 'musician' that cannot read or write music is like a 'writer' who isn't literate.
>>63855726
Buttmad jazzfag detected
lol all these people on /mu/ trying to sound intellectual
>>63854784
>>63856455
Where do you people think we are?
>>63856233
More like objective truth falling into your lap and you don't know what to do with it.
I'm sure the most talented instrumentists of the "classical" period also held improv to a higher standard than compositions. It's quite simply the highest form of musical expression.
>>63855971
>A 'musician' that cannot read or write music is like a 'writer' who isn't literate.
If James Joyce recorded Ulysses on a dictophone it would still be a masterpiece.
Literature is actually the only art form that isn't polluted by pseuds these days.
>>63856981
If James Joyce had recorded a story over a dictophone without writing it down or memorizing it before hand it would have no doubt been a product of much lower quality than that which had been received in the printed form (in 'our' reality). That is because it would be impossible to commit such beautiful imagery and language to oration only. Especially if we assume that in this particular scenario he was not learned in the art of writing or language. Nay, in this scenario he supposedly wasn't literate at all. Your rebuttal is fairly non-sensical.
A musician that cannot write or read music has no rights to call himself a musician at all. They may have musical leanings through some talent in regards to an instrument, but if they don't have the skill to actually commit a thought-out composiion to paper, what good is it? It is only good for a novelty. This is what Zappa meant when he said he had respect for Hendrix the performer, but no respect for Hendrix the musician. In a similar manner a talented orator with a hefty imagination can certainly tell a decent story, but not in the same manner (or level of detail) in which a talented writer can commit on paper.
>>63857250
Detail is irrelevant. People who put complexity above everything else generally have mommy issues.
>>63857286
Ignoring your ad hom, holding complexity in relevancr is not the same as holding it above all else.
>>63857424
Holding it above all else is what your posts are implicitly doing though, whether you wanted to or not.
>>63857250
Some of the greatest works of literature predate the written word. Writing seeks to communicate language. That is all it is for. Likewise with music. Notation is a method of communicating the music not the music itself.
The map is not the territory.
>>63847552
You really did not understand my post at all. The point is that using feedback (or even simply playing a chord on an electric guitar) and analog tape loops creates nearly incomprehensible dissonances that only masters can truly handle. If you were asked to accurately notate, say, Mission of Burma (who were semi-trained, but still), you would fail miserably.
>>63841872
>Where do they get the money to live on, while composing?
Because they're were born rich. That's also why they study so much, because they have so much money.
Being a composer = being rich. But I'm pretty sure that most modern composers are poor as shit so idk.
>>63857592
A sufficiently self-important cartographer would probably argue that maps are more important than the territory itself. Nay, maps are the only true reality! Territory by itself is just chaos without the cartographer's illuminating hand.
>>63857475
Detail is important, it isn't the end-all-be-all. Webern's compositions say in a few bars what some musicians could only whisper throughout an entire composition. There are other things in consideration other than detail.
I don't understand how anyone can assert that detail has absolutely no relevance though. Details can make an otherwise worn out method of plot of composition more interesting. Murders are the norm in literarture; but the murder itself isn't ultimately what ends up being interesting about it. It's the details surrounding the events and the motives of whoever took part which more often than not end up being more interesting. I'm not saying that it has to be the most complicated and detailed composition ever for it to be good, but even the most simple pieces with which I am familiar with have at least some level of detail to them.
>>63857791
Detail is irrelevant as criteria to judge quality. If the detail has more content, then that content is judged along with the piece as a whole. Having detail, by itself, means absolutely nothing.
>>63857686
Maps saved many a life and provided a much needed insight into the territory they observed. Who is to say there isn't at least some truth to that? It isn't that the territory or the maps or more important to one another, but that they are equally important. One provides for the other and so on.
>>63857857
Territory is real life itself. You can't have a map without territory, but you can do thousands, millions of activities in and involving territory without having a map. Just like you can do a lot of things in music without needing notation. Melodic ideas, which are the trascendental aspect to music, are in 90% of cases born out of pure hearing. No notation involved, not now, now 600 years ago.
4 years later and Ame's bait copypasta is still causing this shit
I am in tears at this thread
>>63857850
>Having detail, by itself, means absolutely nothing.
Duh.
Man what are you retards even arguing about. You guys are saying the most obvious shit and acting like it's this thought-provoking argument.
>>63857936
It's obvious because the rebuttal to your argument is obvious.
>>63857952
>your argument
Which argument is that?
>>63857972
Old art music is better than modern popular music because complexity.
>>63858000
Hm. I wonder when I wrote that. I didn't know I was arguing anything.
jeez operadepot sure has been doing a shit ton of deals lately
>>63856981
>literature is the only art form that isn't polluted by Pseuds these days
>>63857917
/classical/ threads haven't been doing as well lately. The copypasta really sped up discussion.
>>63857683
>Because they're were born rich
So it's essentially white privilege music?
>>63858319
Yeah, I know why you guys did it. We've had like 5 ded threads in the past week.
>>63858361
Basically I am drinking minority tears while I listen to classical, yeah.
![70dd1d3d1f68e78abb02a9002ffcbb24[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/95snR0p.jpg "70dd1d3d1f68e78abb02a9002ffcbb24[1].jpg")
>>63844767
What do you make of this, sempai?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpREizsftU&ab_channel=Headknot
>>63841071
>Do they follow an outdated and frankly obsolete method for recording their work because loool vintage xD?
>If so, I decide by own retarded and arbitrary standards that they are art.
>I literally cannot rationalize anything without limited standards, by the way xD
>>63858263
I'll admit i was trolling there.
Calm down there op, there are different ways to express music, some is just more "Complex", you should learn to appreciate music for what it is.
Anyways, does anyone have any good piano concerto recommendations for me to listen to, I played Tchaikovsky's 1st one in my college orchestra last semester and fell in love with it, I have recently been listening to all of them by Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky, and would like to know some other great ones
Thoughts on Carl Orff?
>>63858685
I like Carmina Burana even though it's a meme piece. I like Antigonae even more, though.
>>63858727
>I like Carmina Burana
I really don't for some reason. I think Orff is kind of shite in general.
I love this though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPZ-Cflb38Q
>Gheorghiu still going as Tosca
really
>>63859013
This IS pretty nice. I like it.
>>63857683
>Because they're were born rich.
>Being a composer = being rich.
>>63858681
Mozart, Bach, Bartók, Ravel, Prokofiev
The concertos of Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff are not great. The latter constitute merde.
>>63861606
Why are animeshitters always so retarded?
>>63861867
moron detected
FUCK jazz
>>63861894
I-I just wanted to be noticed by Ame-senpai.
Can anyone help a pleb out with some kind of top 10 of violin concertos to listen through to serve as a sort of introduction or starting-point? Already listened to Beethoven's and Tchaikovsky's, but any indications of which others are considered "essential" would be much appreciated.
>>63842084
Johnny Greenwood did the score for There Will be Blood
Get a trip already so I can filter you
>>63861940
Sibelius, Schoenberg, Bartok, Brahms, Berg, Stravinsky, Mendelssohn, Bach
>>63836580
2/3 of those composers aren't classical
I listen to art music, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, the list goes on!
>>63862196
To be fair, those are the greatest of the great.
Once you finish those artists' works. You might as well give up music and do something else.
>>63862196
>Mozart
What's with this Mozart is good meme. The other two are GOAT though so overall you are correct.
>>63862258
further proof mozart is underrated
>>63862258
>mfw plebs don't get Mozart
>mfw plebs underrating Mozart
>>63862274
further proof Mozart being good is a meme
>>63862231
I'd agree if the previous poster didn't mention Mozart.
We /Mozart/ now.
Why haven't you listened to the best composer to grace this earth today?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3y79z3Uxb4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGQAipExghY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRXQpoI__Qc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_cfok4QxdU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SONlDLgx0Gw
>>63862436
>tfw you will never listen to his 14th sonata for the first time again
I enjoy classical music, Mozart, the list goes on!
How're pristine audio masters?
>>63862499
pretty variable, but the Obert-Thorn ones are always pretty good.
Mr. Rose is really good at pitch stabilization (pitch problems can be an issue in old meme recordings), but he is seriously inconsistent in regards to everything else.
also the 24bit shit and 'ambient stereo' are seriously memes.
>>63862598
What ones are worth grabbing?
>>63863386
the obert-thorn ones will have his name on it, and they're basically guaranteed to be good
if you're wondering about a certain Mr. Rose remastering, just let me know before you spend your money on it, i might've already have heard it and i can tell you whether or not i think it's good.
>>63854665
Then we get into the murky semantics of what a "genius" is, which throws the notion of classical music being better in some objective way into even more turmoil.
>>63854750
No, it's not. You didn't understand it because you are dumber than the average person.
>>63860252
This post is incorrect because there are no laws of music.
>>63837187
this desu senpai. I bet in the eras of Bach and Beethoven, there were scruffy-looking hipster faggots that would swear to you that they knew about unpopular solo musicians who only performed at cheap events and taverns that were miles ahead of the shitty popular music of the day.
I was going to order this to learn more about music history but I learned it's biased against modernism
Any good books with an alternative viewpoint to read after/alongside it?
>>63861606
This post is incorrect because there are many, many non-classical musicians for whom it is worthwhile to listen to carefully and quietly.
>>63864070
Can you list 10?
