How would you feel about the "time travel" sequence in Unicorn TV showing events from Late UC, AW, AC, FC, PD, CE, etc instead of only showing the One Year War?
>>14153757
I'd prefer they make Banagher's response better honestly.
>>14153782
I kind of like the "infinite warmth of possibility" shit.
Cringe as it was, shit like that or the "even so!" stuff worked for me when I was struggling in boot camp.
>>14153757
Maybe just late U.C., Unicorn never felt like the kind of series to dig into the multiverse stuff, it was always a love letter to the plotline that strung along from 0079 to CCA.
And even then I could see good worth from just showing more of the inbetween. Some high resolution stuff from 0083 or Zeta's end.
>Time travel scene shows FLAWLESS VICTORY
I'd watch it.
>>14153797
I font mind the infinite possibility - it's that he just gave a non-answer to represent it as a response.
>>14153805
I'm not saying it's perfect by any means man.
I always like Amuro's "You're such a piece of shit and your whole political movement is flawed." stuff from CCA, or Kamille's raging ghost boners better.
I just have a soft spot for that scene.
>>14153757
It'd be shit because it would be irrelevant
>>14153823
The UC stuff wouldn't.
Full Frontal's whole point was "War has been going on for so long, what's the point of you trying."
So seeing stuff from Victory, F91, or even fucking G-Saviour would help prove his point.
War will continue until humanity is enveloped by the heat death of the universe.
So Banana responds with the whole thing about possibility, and that even if things are bad, giving up or becoming an asshole isn't justified.
>>14153823
>showing that mankind continues to struggle violently and genocidally for millenia after the end of the Universal Century
>irrelevant
>>14153757
They weren't actually traveling through time, and it seems you know that. And it would make no sense for them to know about events (hundreds of?) thousands of years in the future.
>>14153757
I would say "Man you got some dank weed in there... can I still have some?
>>14153757
How about late UC, and we realize that linking all of it together was a mistake.
I mean Turn A is GOAT, but the whole need to bridge the gap, was kinda shat on when they just kept going, and putting the new shit into it, and none of the connections making any damn sense.
>>14153841
Except his point is explicitly about the past, and how he thinks things will end up on the current course of action, while Banagher believes explicitly in the potential of the future. Showing Banagher the near future and AUs are irrelevant since they don't matter.
The events from Late UC haven't even happened yet either, and in the case of AUs they don't even exist within the same Universe, so there is absolutely no way for either of them to be aware of any of these settings and events.
Everything was in their heads based off of the events they knew and experienced, and how Frontal saw it playing out in the end - i.e. everything just ends because of the constant wars. Including events that haven't happened yet but definitely will is impossible.
>>14153867
>>showing that mankind continues to struggle violently and genocidally for millenia after the end of the Universal Century
He did. That was the whole point of showing Banagher the potential BAD END.
You sure this didn't go entirely over your heads? They didn't ACTUALLY time-travel, you know that right?
Unicorn wasn't that hard to understand...
>>14153947
>Unicorn wasn't that hard to understand...
/m/ has a lot of trouble with Unicorn for some reason
>>14154326
We have trouble with everything. /m/ might be the only place where people will say with full conviction that 0080 is Zeon wank.
>>14154346
I try not to care, but you know how it is when people are wrong on the internet...
>>14154346
That's because anything that doesn't depict everyone on Zeon's side as either outright rejecting Zeon or a genocidal maniac is a Zeon wank to them.
>>14154326
Unicorn is pretty convoluted for long spans and then spells things out.
>>14153757
The thing about it is, what's shown is what's in the public record. A lot of it is Char-centric stuff Full Frontal was programmed with from Char's memories, and the Laplace explosion was a highly public event they both know about. All that they're seeing really is an extrapolation of past events as their psycoframes resonate to an insane level, a kind of newtype vision. And then a construction based on something Full Frontal's imagination of the void at the end of time.
The only part that's outright prescient is Banagher briefly seeing the Gryps cannon firing at them - the exceedingly immediate future. Seeing other timelines or accurately seeing the far future is a bridge too far.
>>14153947
>That was the whole point of showing Banagher the potential BAD END.
>the potential BAD END
>potential
I think you're the one who's head was weighed down by the earth's gravity.
Entropy is unstoppable. The universe *will* end eventually. FF wasn't showing Banagher a "potential bad end" he was showing him that everyone and everything, up to and including the universe, WILL die.
They showed absolutely nothing of the human struggle post-Unicorn. they travelled back through the OYW to the destruction of Laplace and then went straight to the death of the universe, skipping over 100% of the human conflict that would follow Banagher/Audrey's choice.
>they didn't time travel
That doesn't mean anything. Way back in 0079 Lalah said she could see time itself. Just because they don't actually time-travel doesn't mean Frontal couldn't show Banagher that war wasn't going to stop happening no matter what he did. There are 10,400 years worth of "Exhibit A" in the argument that Banana and Audrey were not ushering in an era of lasting peace. That's a whole lot more compelling than "well the universe will die one day anyway".
>>14154693
>programmed with from Char's memories
>programmed
He's straight-up POSSESSED.
>>14155499
SORE DEMO
but seriously going all nihilist because the end of time is an absolute oblivion does not mean you shouldn't try and make a good future for those who come after you.
The filth of the human condition should not be used as a defense for why you refuse to do any better.
>>14155652
That's exactly what Banagher's reaction should be. Even though we know the universe will end one day, that doesn't make it pointless to try and make things better until then. For example, we know for sure that the Andromeda galaxy will collide with the Milky Way in 4 billion years and it's highly unlikely earth will survive that and no way in hell we'll stop the collision from happening.
Even so, the next four billion years will still happen and there's no reason not to make those four billion years as nice as possible. Knowing that life will end one day is no excuse for being a dick in the meantime.
>>14155504
Citation pls kthx
>>14159672
Or we could blow up the other galaxy and tell it to fuck off.
>>14159683
Char touching his shoulder is what causes Frontal to die, Char says something like "I guess it's time" when he does so, Amuro's ghost asks if it's okay and then Char's ghost answers he'll leave it in the next generations hands and all 3 of them fly off.
I'm not sure what more you need really.
>>14155499
I thought becoming a true newtype like Marida became after her death and Banana nearly became after he discovered the candy setting on the unicorn could exist outside time and space and would survive the death of the current universe
>>14159700
Nigger please, he says to FF that its time to let go, Lalah does the same shit, are you telling me Lalah was also possessing him?
>>14159700
I still think it was actually Amuro's ghost possessing FF.
You see Char and Lalah's ghosts outside of FF before he dies, and immediately after he dies you see the third ghost come out of the Neo Zeong and you hear Amuro's voice.
Also it makes the non-asteroid-dropping plan for economic restructuring make more sense if it came from Amuro and not Char. Even Mineva said that it was nothing that the Char she knew would have come up with.
>>14159694
> blow up
> an entire galaxy
> made up of millions of stars light years apart
How would you even do that fictionally? Destroy the super black holes at the center of the galaxy in some way I guess?
>>14159713
Then you're an idiot and can't follow a simple series of events. Amuro's ghost literally asks the one coming out if he's okay with it and Char replies. The reason the plan is nothing like Char is flat out stated to be because Frontal views himself, at least up until the finale, as a vessel enacting a plan he thinks the people want. Char wouldn't come up with it because Char doesn't care about what people want - only what he thinks they need. Frontal is only a vessel and only part of Char, hence why there was both a ghost and Frontal at the one time.
>>14159720
>How would you even do that fictionally?
I'm trying to remember, there were an awful lot of casualties that day.......OH YEAH, we inverted polarities.
>>14159720
Destroy each rock and star individually and launch it into a hundred trillion different directions a billion years before we encounter where it would have been.
>>14159713
That's even more stupid. Amuro left everything up to humanity when he turned into psycoframe dust.
>>14159757
Did Kup help destroy a galaxy? I've only seen him in the 80's movie and don't recall him mentioning that. I've no idea if you're making a joke or reference if you are by the way.
>>14159720
Well, not with paleocene Gundam tech. But Macross-level tech can probably do it.
>>14159741
>Amuro's ghost literally asks the one coming out if he's okay with it
You assume.
You actually have no way of knowing which ghost was speaking, they don't have moving mouths.
Also that could easily be interpreted as Amuro asking Char "are you sure it's okay for me to stop now?". The line works either way.
Not to mention the fact that you didn't even address the fact that Char's ghost is outside of FF before FF dies. And there's also the fact that your interpretation would mean that the ginormous bird aura is Char's dinky newtype power. It's even established in MSG that Chalia Bull couldn't even detect an aura coming from him, and Char himself said that he wasn't nearly as powerful as Lalah.
Also the rest of your post is just your headcanon. I admit that my headcanon is headcanon, but you're acting like your headcanon is official and calling me an idiot for not reaching the same headcanon you did, and that's just dumb.
>>14159791
>You actually have no way of knowing which ghost was speaking, they don't have moving mouths.
Except, you know, the voice actors.
>>14159769
It's actually a line from the movie. There are homing missiles closing in on the autobots' ship and he says "Just like the Shrikebats of Dromedon!"
"How did you get away from them?"
"I'm trying to remember, there were an awful lot of casualties that day....OH, YEAH, we inverted polarities"
then the autobot ship just effortlessly dodges the missiles and zaps them with generic energy beam #4 and they explode.
The joke being that "inverting polarities" doesn't mean anything remotely like what they did anyway. Since it's a fictional story, you can just invert polarities by bombarding unstable molecules with cosmic rays until the light from venus reflects off a weather balloon and gets trapped in a pocket of swamp gas under a yellow sun that was bitten by a radioactive spider that trained under a hundred times earth's gravity.
>>14159817
Think REALLY HARD about this:
how does the fact that you know it's Amuro's voice prove that his voice is coming from the small green blob and not the heug blue bird?
You know it's Amuro's voice talking to Char, that is true.
You do *not* know that Char's voice goes with the blue bird of happiness. You're just assuming that because you assume that it was Char's ghost possessing FF.
But since you see Char's ghost, clearly humanoid and dressed as the Red Comet, and you see Lalah's ghost in her usual robe BEFORE Full Frontal dies, and you don't hear Amuro's voice until you see the big blue bird, I still think I'm right.
If you choose to jump to a different conclusion from the one I jumped to, that's your prerogative but you shouldn't act like you're provably right unless you can actually PROVE it.
>>14159791
It's Amuro's VA asking, and the line isn't as unclear in the animation as you're implying since it's "are you okay with that?", which cannot mean "is it okay for me to stop now?". That's not how those words work.
I also did address Char's ghost, since I said he touched Frontal's shoulder (after the ghost leaves Frontal goes still and his color fades, indicating death) and that their was Char's ghost and Frontal, indicating Frontal was only a part of a greater whole.
You're also assuming that newtype strength has any bearing on their spirit's size for some reason. Why would it? They're ghosts living outside time with no corporeal form or constraints - they can be whatever size they want
Everything about Frontal viewing himself as a vessel is in the anime. I'm not sure how you think that's headcanon, but why don't you tell me what part I'm assuming or making up?
>>14159854
>it's Amuro's VA asking
And none of the ghosts have a flapping mouth when that happens. Whose voice it is DOES NOT PROVE WHICH COLORED BLOB THE VOICE IS COMING FROM.
I know you're going to keep repeating that as if it proves something, but it doesn't.
>has any bearing on their spirit's size for some reason. Why would it?
Ever watched Mobile Suit Gundam?
Remember a guy named Dozle?
Ever watched ZZ?
Remember the time Judau was twenty stories tall?
>Everything about Frontal viewing himself as a vessel
I said nothing about this at all. Why are you acting like I said this part was headcanon? Because you need to insert something you can actually prove, even if it means arguing against something I didn't even say?
In fact, I believe Full Frontal even says during that speech that he does not know whose thoughts and ideas have filled him, and I suspect neither do you.
>>14159896
Them being ghosts with no mouths doesn't matter because the lines spoken, their VAs and so on add context. A point you continue to avoid. The lines spoken by particular VAs and the actions accompanying them on screen being important, like the line "are you okay with that?" in Amuro's voice as Frontal's ghost emerges. His ghost having no presence doesn't mean you can't tell who's who, because the rest of the scene fills it in.
I've seen 0079, yes. Lalah and Dozle were alive, not ghosts, so their auras have no bearing on a discussion about the size of the auras of ghosts who've been dead with years like Char. Dead newtypes are obviously different from living ones in terms of what they can do. Or are you saying you think Marina could always communicate with oldtype Zinnerman and see time?
Also, if you weren't meaning that the Frontal vessel stuff was headcanon I've no idea which part you meant when you said the rest of my post was headcanon, since that was the rest. Feel free to clarify though.
>>14159941
>A point you continue to avoid.
I'm not avoiding it, I'm repeatedly stating that there is no evidence whatsoever as to which blob produces which voice. Specifically addressing this point is almost the entirety of my posts in this thread.
>Full Frontal said he considered himself a vessel
FACT
>that means he's only a part of Char, hence why there was both a ghost and Frontal at the same time
HEADCANON
Simple enough for you? Or should I draw you a picture in crayon, like usual?
>>14159963
> they never said Frontal's ghost. Was Char
> so I can pretend he's anyone and you can't say otherwise
I feel like I'm arguing with Black_Knight.
The part you're avoiding is addressing what all that context means. The closest you've come is saying "well the line can be read like this too". Which it can't. Not unless you don't understand English.
> Frontal dies directly after Char's ghost touches his shoulder and flies off
> Frontal has Char's VA
> Frontal looks like Char, pilots in a similar style and uses his personal colors
> The same story has another clone newtype
Fact. If he looked, dressed, talked and fought like Char but wasn't him they certainly wouldn't be coy about pointing it out. Frontal being a part of the whole is the only sensible conclusion. Sensible in massive bunny ears there, obviously.
>>14160012
>they certainly wouldn't be coy about pointing it out
You mean they would do something REALLY obvious, like, I dunno...having Amuro's ghost come out when FF died?
>Frontal dies directly after Char's ghost touches his shoulder and flies off
Which makes perfect sense if it's Char indicating to Amuro that their part in this is over
>Frontal has Char's VA
True. But would still make sense anyway since FF was made into a copy of Char before being possessed.
>looks like Char
see previous
>pilots in a similar style
FF is drastically more competent than Char. Char made a career out of running away from Amuro, FF solo's entire battlefields while his men stand out of the way and watch.
>has another clone newtype
This has absolutely nothing to do with which ghost possessed Full Frontal. You're jumping to the conclusion that Frontal is an actual clone of Char, and jumping from there to another conclusion that this would somehow prevent any ghost other than Char from possessing him.
Just admit that you're drawing conclusions on your own, there's nothing wrong with doing that. But the story *does* leave room for conclusions other than the one you jumped to.
And no, arguing with Black Knight is more like someone constantly telling you that what you think is impossible (what you're doing) whereas I'm saying that either of our interpretations are possible. Black_Knight would NEVER concede that another point of view was valid.
>>14153757
I have always thought that part with the unspecific battle over an ocean on Earth, right before the Ideon sound effect, was actually Victory gundam and point of light they were travelling through was the Angel Halo. The real problem with the time travel sequence is how Neo Zeong was literally disintegrated by SOREDEMO.
How about a straight up time/universe hopping Gundam series? Visit various points of all Gundams and fuck/unfuck them.
>>14153757
Isn't that what happened in the book or am I just remembering lies
>>14160473
I dunno, that didn't work out so well for Decade.
>>14160129
> You mean they would do something REALLY obvious, like, I dunno...having Amuro's ghost come out when FF died?
That is almost the definition of coy and not obvious at all. If it was obvious you would neither need to argue it or state it's your own personal head canon.
> Which makes perfect sense if it's Char indicating to Amuro that their part in this is over
It makes no sense given that the lines spoken don't indicate that. Char says "I guess it's time", followed by Lalah saying "I think you've let them know enough of those thoughts you had when you were you, Captain".
Not only was Amuro never a captain while Char was, Lalah regularly refers to Char as Captain throughout MSG. It also makes no sense in context with Char just appearing given Amuro doesn't appear for over another minute, a lot of which can't happen at the same time given the flow of events. If Char was trying to convince someone else rather than himself he wouldn't say "I guess it's time", because he wouldn't be speaking for himself or guessing.
> Char made a career out of running away from Char.
Yea, except he always fought Amuro first. Hard. And in their last set of battles (Char's Counterattack) he didn't run away, except when he was winning and wanted Amuro to have a better suit. Which is, as he says, a retreat.. He also often took on entire battlefields, since his only problem was Amuro. Who isn't in Unicorn, that ending aside.
> That has absolutely nothing to do with which ghost possessed Frontal
Except in suggesting that cloning newtypes is possible, given that it's already happened once. I'm also not jumping to the conclusion that they only ghost that could possess Frontal is Char, since all the evidence within the show points at him being a part of Char. Someone else probably could possess him. They didn't though, Char did.
>>14161155
>except he always fought Amuro first. Hard
"Hey, Dren...If anyone asks, tell them I had a problem with my mobile suit's reactor or something."
