>Tomino: "At first I thought of Hayao Miyazaki as a rival to conquer."
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-02-25/yoshiyuki-tomino-shares-his-appreciation-for-the-wind-rises/.85310
Did he succeed?
So it tickled is plane fetish?
According to his ja.wiki page his father was involved for designing the flight suit for the zero.
>>13913021
At first i regretted going into the comments section , but the last comment was this:
>In the interview, Tomino Yoshiyuki has said:
Quote:
>どうしてここまで航空エンジニアのことがわかるんだと思って調べたら、お父さんが「中島飛行機」の下請会社をやっていらっしゃったとか。
>Mr Eric Stimson's translation:
>Quote:
>Tomino: If you want to know why I know so much about aviation engineering, it's because my dad worked for a subcontractor of Nakajima Aircraft...
>Actually, what Tomino has said in that part is:
'I wondered why Mr Miyazaki knew so much about aircraft engineers and I checked, and I found that Mr Miyazaki's father had run a subcontractor to the Nakajima Aircraft Company.'
>The subject of 'わかる' is Miyazaki Hayao. The subject of '思って調べたら' is Tomino. The subject of 'やっていらっしゃった' is Miyazaki's father.
Sasuga ANN
At the end of the article.
>I think we need to rethink 20th-century engineering, which tried to overcome evolution, in order to avoid repeating the tragedy of technicians like Horikoshi. The new work I'm making also reflects these thoughts.
What can we make of this, other than its face value?
>>13913021
haha, no.
Isn't it obvious?
>>13914179
Creating the largest mecha franchise in history is a good way to take the lead.
>>13913644
I'm not sure, because how what Horikoshi a tragedy? He made many planes that by all means shouldn't have flown, but managed to. They were engineering marvels in that respect. And he pulled it off because he was forced to ignore things like the pilot's safety.
Speaking of The Wind Rises, I think everyone that liked it should watch the documentary behind it, The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness. It goes a lot into its production and Miyazaki as a person, and it's where the footage that all those fake quotes come from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRMHrlxJRxc
>>13913021
>Tomino
>Hayao Miyazaki
Who?
>>13913021
>Tominio
Bald hack man.
>Miyazaki
The most important anime director.
Sure, he succeed!
>>13913021
>Did he succeed?
No.
Miyazaki is basically anime Walt Disney.
>>13914361
>Otakus don't ever learn anything
BUT I LEARNT TO PIRATE YOUR MOVIES AND NOT PAY FOR THEM YOU STUPID OLD FART
Considering how much more profitable bn is than ghibli, yeah, he did succeed. Gundam will sell for all eternity because it has a lasting message of peace. Ghibli is normiecore.
>>13913021
He succeeded before Miyazaki was even a name.
Is there anything on how Miyazaki sees Tomino? It should be interesting insight.
>>13913021
I think, honestly, Tomino kinda gave up try to make "art" after Turn A and just made what was fun for him. So, yeah, he's rolling in money and happy with his life.
>>13914541
I recall him getting pissy and saying it's a shame Tomino wastes his talent on toy commercials.
>>13914409
>Miyazaki is basically anime Walt Disney.
>>13914509
Clearly Tomino doesn't think so
>>13914551
More than likely he probably said Tomino wastes his talent by being in tv, since Miyazaki has always seen television production as beneath film production.
>>13914551
Well, I guess that was to be expected. At least he acknowledges his talent.
From a certain perspective, though, Turn A is as far from "toy commercial" as Gundam has ever gotten. Maybe he actually approves of that one, but who knows.
>>13914409
It hurts to see people say this on /m/ of all places.
>>13914604
Well directors in tv generally don't have too much creative control, their role is to bring the creative producer's dream to life.
Requesting that interview where Tomino calls Miyazaki a pedo.
>>13914718
Miyazaki doesn't really deny that, what's your point
>>13913021
Why does ANN hate Tomino so much?
This debate is silly. Tomino and Miyazaki are like Ridley Scott and Steven Spielberg. They're good in their own right but they specialized in different avenues of production which characterized their styles.
>>13914409
>>13914568
>>13914610
Well that's what Disney itself has sold him as to the general public, and the idea has taken root.
Miyazaki is a well known and respected name in film and animation circles all over the world.
Tomino is a literally who outside of the otaku fandom who made an anime franchise designed to sell toys to children.
What do you think?
>>13913188
I would like to add that using keigo like
>やっていらっしゃった
On your own father would be ridiculous as fuck thus it's clear to anyone who knows even the slightest bit of Japanese that Tomino is talking about someone else's father.
ANN is fucking garbage.
>>13914833
>what Disney itself
No that's what John Lasseter keeps pushing because he's a gigantic faggot for him.
>>13914833
>that's what Disney itself has sold him as to the general public
This means nothing, you know.
>Did GODmino succeed
It goes without saying you know
>>13914839
I think you are right but Japanese Earth is limited to Japan.
>>13914864
Not like that'll ever change. Would Japan even acknowledge the outside world if they didn't have to?
>>13914839
Names are simply a form of a legacy. Miyazaki's legacy is his name. Tomino's legacy is his work. Gundam remains one of the most iconic science fiction works in the history of science fiction. No, it doesn't outrank Star Wars or Star Trek or Aliens. But to be even up in top 5 or top 10 contention in history is incredibly impressive, all things considered.
In this respect, Tomino has his own claim to fame. Nobody can be Miyazaki and make Miyazaki-like films, not even his own son. But Tomino's work laid down the foundation for others to add their own stories to a living universe, which is part of what makes Gundam special and sets Gundam apart from other science fiction franchises.
>it's a take an interview quote by a famous board related person out of context and provide a link no one will read and watch the replies flood in faster than refugees at a German train station episode
>>13914568
Holy crap. It actually makes more sense when you think about.
>Both mainly made whimsical productions for young audiences
>Both incorporated music as an integral part of their animated works
>All of their most famous productions have some kind of underlying moral
>Both of them commercialized their work for extra profit
>Both have recurring themes of many of their works like environmentalism and female MCs.
>>13914862
You forgot your trip, Snapfit.
>>13914568
That's manga Will Eisner, you fool.
>>13914897
And animals.
>>13913021
>Did he succeed?
Hell no and only an insane person would think so. Put Tomino against his notable contemporaries and he's somewhere near the bottom.
>>13914731
Because G-recturd is such a shitty boring trainwreck
ha ha ha ha
Can't we stop this meme already?
>>13914965
>Put Tomino against his notable contemporaries and he's somewhere near the bottom.
I think of him as more mid than a bottom-tier.
>>13914839
>Miyazaki is a well known and respected name in film and animation circles all over the world.
And that's mostly just because of Johnny boy.
>>13914833
>Well that's what Disney itself has sold him as to the general public
Is that why they gave up even bothering to distribute his movies and pushed it all to G-Kids?
Disney hates Miyazaki.
>>13914897
And both legitimized animation as an actual profitable business in their country.
Of course, Tezuka also made comics, so he's not just the Jap Walt Disney, he's also basically the Jap version of Stan Lee/Jack Kirby/Bob Kane/Bill Finger and Jerry Siegel all rolled into one.
Miyazaki is a failure as a creator in that he hasn't created a single proper successor or any proteges of note other than Anno (which is arguable since all of Anno's work references Tomino). The guy he did try to raise ended up dying because Miyazaki worked him to death, and because Miyazaki is a stubborn asshole, he refused to show even his son the ropes of animation. Now his company is dead in the water, because the only thing it can do is make movies that are bad imitations of his work.
As for Tomino? Pretty much anyone working in the anime industry in the 80's felt his influence. And his list of proteges is endless. Takahashi, Fukuda, Imagawa, Nagano, Fukui, Araki, Oshii, hell even Anno as mentioned before. And those are just some of the people he spoke to, nevermind others whose childhoods he inspired.
Miyazaki is simply a lucky guy who was given the opportunity to make movies with as much money as he wanted and had the backing of the House of Mouse to spread his name, yet ironically enough nobody wants to work with him. Tomino carved his way through the top ranks of Sunrise and the anime industry, and every top animator wanted to work with him on G-Reco. Anime would have been no different without Miyazaki. Without Tomino, mecha anime would have never evolved.
>>13915267
>Anno's work references Tomino
Just Eva. Which also references everyone else to ever come before.
Everything else he does for his Miyazaki-senpai.
>Anime would have been no different without Miyazaki. Without Tomino, mecha anime would have never evolved.
This is the most pathetic Tomino dick sucking I've ever seen.
>>13914885
>obody can be Miyazaki and make Miyazaki-like films, not even his own son.
Not for lack of trying
>>13914897
Plus more importantly, Tezuka was partially taught his style by Disney, and even met Walt himself.
>>13915175
>I think of him as more mid than a bottom-tier.
Who are you comparing him to?
>>13915285
>This is the most pathetic Tomino dick sucking I've ever seen.
Doesn't make it any less true.
>Just Eva.
Just like how Miyazaki inspired only Nadia. How fitting that the lesser show was inspired by the lesser creator.
>>13914885
>Nobody can be Miyazaki and make Miyazaki-like films
No there was someone, then he died horrifically in a car crash
>>13914885
>But to be even up in top 5 or top 10 contention in history is incredibly impressive, all things considered.
I'd say it wouldn;t even be the top 10. Not when you include SF literature too.
>>13914885
>Nobody can be Miyazaki and make Miyazaki-like films
And that is why Ghibli died. Instead of letting the people work there make their own things, they all had to follow Miyazaki's model because it was the only one that sold well.
>>13915334
It's worse than that. Miyazaki worked him to death on Princess Mononoke until he got a fucking brain aneurysm.
>>13915267
>Miyazaki is a failure as a creator in that he hasn't created a single proper successor or any proteges of note other than Anno (which is arguable since all of Anno's work references Tomino).
He doesn't want to. He intends for Ghibli to die with him.
>>13915331
Tomino only ever made one work of lasting influence and that was the original Gundam.
He's done other shows, and they weren't all bad, but none have come close to the lasting influence Gundam has had.
Miyazaki's movies provided early employment for many anime creators, including Anno.
They also opened normal people up to the idea of anime by making it an easily-digestible, whimsical family affair that succeeded outside of Japan.
Tomino has never had any lasting success outside Japan. He's too long winded, even in his good stuff and too insufferably boring in his bad.
>>13915353
>He intends for Ghibli to die with him.
No he didn't, Ghibli has had numerous plans to come up with some kind of successor. Kiki's and Howl's were both meant to be directed by others until Miyazaki went full dictator and kicked both directors out.
Ironically, one of those directors (Mamoru Hosoda) is now closer to a Miyazaki successor than anyone from his own studio.
That's how short-sighted Miyazaki is.
I would put Tomino and Miyazaki pretty low on the list if comparing to other creators like Tezuka or Dezaki (whose name was also Tezuka, funnily).
>>13915364
err, was also Osamu I meant
>>13915357
>They also opened normal people up to the idea of anime by making it an easily-digestible, whimsical family affair that succeeded outside of Japan.
That was because of Disney's influence, remember Warrior's of the Wind? Or how Miramax handled Totoro and Princess Mononoke? Miyazaki has never cared about how Americans saw his films.
>>13915363
>That's how short-sighted Miyazaki is.
Hosoda sucks, so I'm sure he had his reasons.
>>13915363
>Mamoru Hosoda
>Miyazaki successor
I love this meme
>>13915363
Now just remember how he threw his own son under the bus when he found out Goro was going to direct Tales of Earthsea.
Granted, the movie was bad, but hey - the kid was in over his head for a first time project. That's not really a shocker.
and to his credit, his follow-up's alright. Not sure he'll ever be his old man, but he at least has the potential to be a pretty good director in his own right if he keeps working at it.
>>13915370
>Miyazaki has never cared about how Americans saw his films.
Yes, and that's why he sent Disney a katana with the note "no cuts" when they got the rights to distribute his films, right?
You're pathetic.
>>13915379
>Yes, and that's why he sent Disney a katana with the note "no cuts" when they got the rights to distribute his films, right?
That was Miramax dumbfuck
>>13915379
Careful kid, might cut yourself on that edge.
>>13915383
Miramax was owned by Disney at the time.
>>13915357
>Tomino only ever made one work of lasting influence and that was the original Gundam.
Zambot, Ideon, Char's Counterattack. Those three are each more influential than anything Miyazaki has ever worked on outside of Horus ( which doesn't even count since it was directed by Takahata). Influential =/= popular, it means that it inspires future works. Popular as Totoro is, it inspired absolutely nothing from the anime industry.
>He's done other shows, and they weren't all bad, but none have come close to the lasting influence Gundam has had.
When your anime is something akin to reinventing the wheel in the anime industry, of course nothing else will compare. Most certainly not Miyazaki's stuff.
>Miyazaki's movies provided early employment for many anime creators, including Anno.
Are you retarded? ALL anime provide employment for animators. SDF Macross was the first show Anno had ever worked on, and guess which anime it was heavily inspired by.
>They also opened normal people up to the idea of anime by making it an easily-digestible, whimsical family affair that succeeded outside of Japan.
Thanks Disney, fuck you for not promoting any of Tezuka's works which did the same thing and for a much longer period of time.
>Tomino has never had any lasting success outside Japan.
That's because Tomino never bowed down like a bitch to Disney, nor did anyone else with any shred of credibility in the anime industry.
>all people ever talk about is Miyazaki or Tomino, and maybe Dezaki if it's a sakuga thread or >>13915364
>never Nakamura
>never Ikuhara
>never Kawajiri (you can count on one hand how many times he's gotten work in the last decade without having to check on wiki)
>never Yamamoto (you may hate what his work did in influencing the modern anime industry, but that doesn't change that he's a really good director)
>>13915379
That was for Mononoke and that was when Miramax had the license, if you read up on him his pretty much hates America and Howls was made as his critique over the Iraq war.
>>13915373
>Hosoda sucks, so I'm sure he had his reasons.
Far less than Goro and Yonebayashi, that's for sure.
>>13915387
Go be stupid somewhere else.
>>13915379
That was Suzuki, not Miyazaki who sent that. Miyazaki doesn't give a fuck at all.
>>13915341
>muh literature
Not everyone likes books, not everyone is an English major, not everyone is a pretentious douchebag who pretends reading somehow makes him better than everyone else.
>>13915389
>When your anime is something akin to reinventing the wheel in the anime industry
>"what if I do something more like the book Starship Troopers than what I normally do?"
Gundam was not original. It was just original to anime.
>>13915363
>Ironically, one of those directors (Mamoru Hosoda) is now closer to a Miyazaki successor than anyone from his own studio.
The sad thing is people believe this. Hosoda has never made a single good film since starting his own studio.
>>13915401
Are you really bringing down Foundation to "muh literature", the series that is THE reason we have popular science fiction as we know it today? Hell one of the Gundam series is directly based off of it.
>>13915402
And Star Wars wasn't original either. Just original to every sci-fi movie ever made after.
Nothing is original, but that doesn't mean it has to be to be influential.
>>13915389
>Zambot
Literally nothing of note.
>Ideon
Terrible show with a decent follow-up movie that was one of many inspirations for Evangelion, a show that eclipsed it in every way possible.
>Char's Counterattack
Mediocre closeout to Tomino's Gundam work until the 90s.
>Popular as Totoro is, it inspired absolutely nothing from the anime industry.
You need to look outside your bedroo/m/ one day.
>When your anime is something akin to reinventing the wheel in the anime industry,
He was the first to try to be "real" with his robots. He gets credit for that. He still didn't do a good job at telling a story afterwards.
>That's because Tomino never bowed down like a bitch to Disney, nor did anyone else with any shred of credibility in the anime industry.
>muh gropious nippon purity!
Christ, you are pathetic.
>>13915394
Hell fucking no. From Up on Poppy Hill and When Marnie Was There were better than Summer Wars, Wolf Children and his recent shitfest Boy and the Beast.
>>13915416
>muh faggot opinions
Just because you don't like his works doesn't mean they aren't influential you colossal faggot.
>Christ, you are pathetic.
Says the shit eater defending the pedophile.
>>13915401
Are you twelve?
>>13915416
>Zambot
>Literally nothing of note.
Stopped reading there.
>>13915420
>bait and switch incest and lesbians
>better than anything
I don't even like Hosoda's newer works but you chose the two worst examples possible to prove your point.
>>13913188
The comments section of ANN articles about Tomino are ALWAYS worth reading. Among all the garbage comments talking shit about Tomino, there's typically a post correcting the article's terrible translation with what he actually said. It tends to get ignored by most people, and ANN never bothers fixing it (I still haven't figured out if they mistranslate on purpose, but the correct translations never the narrative they're trying to push about him), but at least it's there, somewhat connected to the source. Unfortunately hid in a separate forum, several pages in.
Jesus christ, why does everyone on /m/ become a foaming at the mouth retard whenever these two are mentioned together. They made fucking cartoons, and if an anime really had that much impact on your life that you feel personally offended by an attack on either of them, your life is fucking pathetic.
>>13915433
>Hosoda's annual furry fapbait films
>better than anything
Boy and the Beast was worse than Earthsea.
>>13915267
>Miyazaki is a failure as a creator
Not only that, he's a failure as a human being because he essentially abandoned his whole family just to make cartoons. His wife had to quit just to raise their two sons, and Miyazaki himself never showed up at home more than once a week, usually late at night,
>>13915496
Ponyo was worse than Earthsea, you're not really helping your case here.
>>13915509
>Ponyo was bad
I love this meme
>>13915509
>Ponyo was worse than Earthsea
I never even saw Ponyo, but I don't think I've ever seen an anime movie worse than Earthsea. With the exception of X, and that's for purely personal reasons because it butchered my favorite manga of all time.
>>13915526
Ponyo managed to have an even more incomprehensible plot than Earthsea.
Very few anime have succeeded in doing that.
Y'know, why is Tomino the one compared with Miyazaki? Yasuhiko has a distinctive artsyle and made manga which he then adapted himself into feature anime films with scores by Joe Hisaishi.
Of course despite parallels, Yas isn't as outspoken as the other two, and essentially bowed out of animation.
>>13915555
>Y'know, why is Tomino the one compared with Miyazaki
Because Tomino looks up to Miyazaki, he's said this several times.
Probably because Miyazaki has always had absolute creative control over his work while Tomino had to fight the network and studio over and over.
>>13915539
I liked Earthsea
>>13915560
>Because Tomino looks up to Miyazaki, he's said this several times.
Sauce?
>>13915555
/m/ only cares about Gundam and trying to destroy anything more popular than it by acting like a gigantic baby.
Satoshi Kon >>>>>>>>> Both
>>13915555
>Yas isn't as outspoken as the other two
You've answered your own question.
Also, people see Yas as more of an artist than a director. Same with Otomo.
>>13915571
Literally the interview in OP, and the ones related to it
>>13915581
Indeed, those two could learn something from him.Like actually dying.
>>13915592
>people see Yas as more of an artist than a director
Because only like 10 people tops here have even seen Gorg
>>13915555
>and essentially bowed out of animation.
Yeah that may be partially because he's REALLY old, and looks it to boot
>>13915560
I meant that their subject matter and technique are mostly dissimilar. Though their shared status as industry mainstays is what is causes them to be compared.
>>13915555
I always saw him as more of the Yoshifumi Kondo to Tomino's Miyazaki.
>>13915608
While that is true, Yas spent far more of his career being an artist than a director. That is why he's known as such. If we're comparing personality types and artistic styles than Miyazaki's counterpart would be Nagano.Gorg is sadly underrated.
>>13915622
>I meant that their subject matter and technique are mostly dissimilar.
That's because you haven't watched Future Boy Conan or read the Nausicaa manga. The two are far closer than you think.
>>13915616
Six years younger than Tomino & Miyazaki (not that that's saying much), though it seems he was always a potatoman.
>>13915642
Done both. I don't deny there are similarities, but it's tough draw a clear line when so much of one's work is in sci-fi/action TV (though not necessarily out of choice.)
>>13915629
>Gorg is sadly underrated.
Eh, while I liked it, it admittedly wasn't that great all things considered. I hold Miyazaki's Conan to similar standards, even if the plot is slightly more coherent than Gorg's.
It's also important to note that Yas didn't really like any of the films he directed, which is somewhat understandable.I honestly wished he did more work in the vidyas.
>>13915629
>Gorg is sadly underrated.
Not really. It has more praise than it deserves among people who have seen it since it's hopelessly mediocre.
>>13915736
Why do you hate Gorg? Why does it make you so mad?
>>13915741
I don't. I just said it was average.
>>13915755
But that's wrong.
>>13915755
Yeah. Honestly he would better his storytelling through his mangos, even if they're not completely flawless.
>>13915629
>If we're comparing personality types and artistic styles than Miyazaki's counterpart would be Nagano.
More like Nagano is an alternate version of Miyazaki who was never fortunate enough to meet his Toshio Suzuki equivalent.
>>13915718
Yeah, none of his plots really hold together all that well, but the style and detail of the movies/Gorg are enough to make them enjoyable for me. He still apparently has fondness for Dirty Pair, though a revival of that ain't looking likely.
(Conan is pretty good for something that was made up as they went along after five or so eps.)
>>13915806
>none of his plots really hold together all that well, but the style and detail of the movies/Gorg are enough to make them enjoyable for me.
I agree. Despite the heavily apparent problems with overall story flow, his anime tend to have some pretty decent animation, which also helped jumpstart/expand the careers of people like Dokite, Kawamoto, and Kamimura.
That said, I still liked the plots of stuff like Joan and Alexandros, though his best work is by far the Origin retelling (at least the manga
rendition).
Wait, what was this thread about again?
>>13915956Nagano or something.
>>13914731
He insulted grorius attack on titan
>>13915390
>>never Ikuhara
Ikuhara is overrated. His directing style is terribly limited. He's been remaking Utena over and over again, with each version being inferior to the one before it.
>>13915718
>It's also important to note that Yas didn't really like any of the films he directed, which is somewhat understandable.
Confession time: I like the Venus Wars movie, but personally, always found it weird how the manga gets such a cold shoulder despite being the better story of the two versions.
Is it the fact Dark Horse hasn't really reprinted it in ages or what?
>>13915390
>Yamamoto
>influencing the modern anime industry
Please kill yourself.
>>13916063
>He's been remaking Utena over and over again, with each version being inferior to the one before it.
Is that why he's friends with Anno?
>>13916063
Did you watch Sailor Moon S?
>>13916081
Lucky Star was extremely influential in helping create the "cute girls doing cute things" concept to build a show around. Possibly moreso than even K-On.
>>13916095
I'm convinced he crashed on Anno's couch in the 17 years between Utena and Penguindrum. Because he sure as shit wasn't doing anything else.
>>13916210
Didn't Yamakan deal with constant shit from the network in making the first 4 episodes of LS, which is why he was just script supervisor from then on and someone else became director?
>>13916210
>Lucky Star was extremely influential in helping create the "cute girls doing cute things" concept to build a show around. Possibly moreso than even K-On.
Is this the garbage /a/ shits in your math?
Yamacuck only directed the first 4 episodes of Lucky Star, which were so bad he got fucking fired from Kyoto Animation.
Also, Lucky Star didn't do anything new that Azumanga Daioh didn't already do.
>>13916210
>Did you watch Sailor Moon S?
That's like saying we should judge Oshii's entire directing style based on Urusei Yatsura or the very first Patlabor OVAs.
>>13916216
>I'm convinced he crashed on Anno's couch in the 17 years between Utena and Penguindrum
That would be extremely awkward
>>13916216
>I'm convinced he crashed on Anno's couch in the 17 years between Utena and Penguindrum. Because he sure as shit wasn't doing anything else.
There was that fling with Nagano.
>>13914385
>created the most successful science fiction franchise not only in the history of the medium, but all mediums period
>bald hack man
Well, he is a bald man. But you sound like a little faggot that is butthurt because baby didn't like his shows.
>>13916295
Meant to say the most successful in anime period and ONE of the most successful in other mediums period, before anyone lynches me.
>>13914731
Weabs don't like Tomino.
>>13914568
Miyazaki on Tezuka in an obituary edition of an anime magazine shortly following Tezuka's death:
>"At one point Tezuka used to go around saying "Limited animation's the way to go now. Three frames - just use three frames!" But limited animation doesn't mean three frames, and anyway after that he turned what he had been saying on its head and started yakking all over the place about how great "full animation" is, but it seemed to me that he didn't have any idea what that meant, either. Similarly, when he went out and bought a rotoscope, we all wound up laughing at him.
>There is a well-known rakugo comedy routine in which the owner of a tenement is learning gidayu ballads and gets all his tenants together and forces them to listen to him. Well, Tezuka's animation was just like that.
>In 1963, Tezuka created Japan's first TV anime series, Tetsuwan Atom, or Astro Boy, at the very low price of 500,000 yen per episode. Because he established this precedent, animation productions ever after have unfortunately suffered from low budget"
>"In terms of animation, however, I think I have the responsibility to say the following - everything that Mr.Tezuka talked about or emphasized was wrong."
>>13915267
>Without Tomino, mecha anime would have never evolved.
Funny, because Gundam is actually the cause for the mecha industries' stagnation.
>>13913021
Why is this relevant when Imagawa already perfected mecha anime?
>>13916509
>>13916519
Looks like the Getterfags have started to wake up.
>>13915341
If you include literature science fantasy crap like Star Wars and Gundam don't even rank.
>>13916526
>Liking Imagawa and disliking real robots makes you a getterfag now
Anything you say, buddy.how the fuck did you know
>>13915357
>Tomino only ever made one work of lasting influence and that was the original Gundam.
>The Brave Raideen series is renowned in Japan as the first to include a giant robot whose origins are mystical rather than scientific; Raideen itself is in fact portrayed as a sentient being. Raideen is also historically noteworthy for being one of the first transforming giant robots (Goldar, from Ambassador Magma, was an earlier character, although Goldar's transformation from robot to rocket ship was not a detailed mechanical transformation). The diecast toy version of Raideen, released in Japan in 1975 by Popy, was the first true transforming robot toy.
>>13916210
Did you watch SS?
IT'S TIME
>>13914897
And Tezuka was into furry.
>>13916509
I'm not going to say you're wrong, but that is an interesting perspective.
>>13914718
Learn Italian.
Without Tomino and Gundam people like Takahashi would have NEVER stepped up and made anime like VOTOMS. Never.
>>13916509
I agree. Except when Tomino comes and make new gundam. Turn A, King Gainer and G-reco proves the evolution of the genre, too bad Bandai exists.
>>13915267
>Anime would have been no different without Miyazaki
Are you kidding me
>>13915389
>Zambot, Ideon, Char's Counterattack. Those three are each more influential than anything Miyazaki has ever worked on
Are you kidding me
>>13916063
I feel like he could do something very great if he were to adapt somebody else's work instead of coming up with the story himself.
His sense of mood, style and structure is incredible, but he's not using it for anything great.
I mean, I actually kinda liked Yurikuma for what it was. But if he hadn't done all these constant artistic flourishes to spice it up, it would have been a massive pile of shit.
>implying Miyazaki is more successful than Tomino
You realize that Gundam is literally the biggest anime franchise of all time, right?
If you think Gundam isn't mainstream then you obviously haven't been to any Asian country.
>>13917115
Tomino didn't make even make half of those you dumb shit. Also, no matter how you look at it, it wasn't Tomino that made Gunshit popular, it was Gunpla.
>>13917122
That's like saying Lucas isn't responsible for Star Wars since he only directed the first one. Tomino is the one who started Gundam, regardless of who's in charge of it now.
>>13916756
God it's like I'm back in 2007
>>13917122
And Totoro only became popular because of a plush toy. The movie bombed horrifically when it first came out.
>>13917206
>not wanting to take in the double-feature of Happy Forest Fuzzy Monster Adventure and Grave of the Fireflies
shigga higga kudasai
>>13917027
>>13917030
No, you're just delusional.
>>13917103
Ikuhara has a very specific set of tropes that he loves to use over and over again. Saying that he could do more "broad material" is like saying Shinbo will ever do something that isn't a Powerpoint presentation.
>>13917209
Doesn't change the fact that it bombed.
>>13915782
Miyazaki was very, very lucky to have met Suzuki. Even Moebius's animation career was a complete disaster because he had no one backing him up like Suzuki.
>>13915412
>Nothing is original, but that doesn't mean it has to be to be influential.
Exactly. Just look at Evangelion.
It became popular for all the wrong reasons though.
>>13915389
>Zambot, Ideon, Char's Counterattack. Those three are each more influential than anything Miyazaki has ever worked on
>>13915782
>>13915629
I've always wondered what Nagano's opinion on Miyazaki is since they're so like-minded.
>>13917455
You ever seen Miyazaki's opinion about Tezuka.
I'm 99% sure that's how Nagano feels about Miyazaki.
>>13917477
But Nagano has that opinion of everyone
>>13917486
Nah, Nagano respects a lot of people, especially the ones he worked with at Sunrise.
>>13917505
Then maybe he should stop acting like a prima-donna half the time so it doesn't paint that impression of him.
>>13917509
For better or worse, I think he enjoys having that kind of image.
>>13917455
>>13917477
>"I've been struggling with Miyazaki for long. Words like indebtedness or gratitude cannot describe my feeling toward him. The impact of Nausicaa upon the mangaka in our generation was beyond the imagination of the younger people."
>"The image of the future Miyazaki showed us was not only bright but scary, irrational, and sad. He'd already realized the two opposing aspects of Modernism: prosperity and destruction."
>"I can see Miyazaki's nihilistic idea that humanism is the only way to succeed in the anime/manga business. He intentionally removed the darkness from his animated works. That's why the movie version of Nausicaa and all his subsequent works were boring."
>"Miyazaki's animation was Ohya no Gidayu. A landlord forces his tenants to see his terrible performances. The evaluation hasn't changed. But it's true that I felt relieved to see Miyazaki failed in Nausicaa. It gave me a chance to beat him."
>"And that's why I've never wanted to be a worshiper of Miyazaki."
>>13917509
I've don't think I've ever seen people source the shit they say about Nagano. He has good taste though, I will say that much.
>>13917551
It's not so much what Nagano says as the things he does. Like how he botched the western release of FSS, refuses to allow any decent modern plamo or toys to be made of his designs for decades, and even now won't allow Gothicmade to be seen outside of theaters even after 4 years. It just gives him this impression of having a "holier than thou" attitude.
>>13916444
"Tezuka was a mistake"
-Hayao Miyazaki
>>13917558
>Like how he botched the western release of FSS
I'm not entirely familiar with this.
>It just gives him this impression of having a "holier than thou" attitude.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, though.
>>13917546
This copypasta is incredibly funny not just because I can actually see Nagano saying this, but because Anno actually said the same thing about Miyazaki and his works.
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Statements_by_Evangelion_Staff#Hideaki_Anno:_Ghibli_ga_Ippai_Liner_Notes
>I have no intention of denying that. All of Studio Ghibli's works are top level creations. But, I can't help but feel that something is missing. This is because, although the technique is there, I can no longer feel "blood", the "blood" that is surely flowing within everyone. I wonder when that happened? Studio Ghibli's works have, for me, become things that doesn't possess the image of "Anime", but rather of the so-called Japanese cinema, in other words, the Japanese movies that have now lost all their energy. That may be the reason that I feel that something is missing.
>>13917565
>I'm not entirely familiar with this.
He stopped the translation after 10 volumes. Not to mention that the manga itself was hard as hell to find and each volume was split up into three subvolumes, making it a nightmare to collect, though I think that has more to do with the western publisher than Nagano himself.
Really hoping Vertical gets the rights to properly bring FSS back to the US now that they're done with the Origin.
>>13917570
His works yes, but I don't think Anno thinks the same way about Miyazaki himself. Otherwise I don't think he would've been the way he was around him in the documentary.
>>13917586
Why did he stop it?
>>13917570
>said the same thing
>he said the exact opposite when it comes to being a "worshipper of Miyazaki"
If you don't want people to contradict your post, don't make the source so easy to read
>By the way, Mr. Miyazaki Hayao and Mr. Itano Ichirou are those I consider my teachers. I brag and say that I'm probably the only one in the world with that combination. I was greatly influenced, not just in the technical points of the animation craft, but in the mental portion of filmmaking. My posture on filmmaking is nothing more than an attempt to hang on to the things I learned from the two of them. I have nothing but words of gratitude for both of them.
>When I helped out as an animator for "Nausicaa", there's something that Miya-san often told me. It seems to have come from a Chinese sage, but "There are three conditions for accomplishing something. Those are: Being young, Being poor, and Being unknown." And, "No matter what, make friends." So I was taught. This was more than 12 years ago. Yes, I've known Miya-san approximately 12 years. In that time, I think Miya-san has achieved various things. However, he also lost many things.
>However, I feel that he is still trying to obtain something new. Is that trying to throw away the past? But could that be the fate of those who go on making films? In any case, he is a person of deep craft regarding his desires.
Finally, I'm looking forward to "Mononoke Hime", the latest in the series of seven works stretching from his masterpiece "Nausicaa" (the movie). No, I'm serious.
>My master, the Lord Miyazaki Hayao-sama. From a (self-proclaimed) prodigal son, Anno Hideaki.
>Yoshiyuki Tomino's original plot for the anime was considerably much more grim, with Amuro dying halfway through the series, and the crew of the White Base having to ally with Char (who is given a red Gundam), but finally having to battle him after he takes control of the Principality of Zeon.
Never forget.
>>13917603
>>13917628
I was referring specifically to that quote, not the entire statement. Regardless, Anno respects Miyazaki much in the way Miyazaki respected Tezuka, but each one had strong qualms with how their predecessors went about making their own movies. The biggest difference is that Anno doesn't come across as vindictive in his statement.
>>13917619
He didn't stop it, the publishers stopped because no one was buying it because they had no idea how to distribute it.
>>13917674
Ah, alright.
>>13917674
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Nagano OWN that publishing company for the western version (Toyspress)? Everything should have went as how he wanted it to.
>>13917691
He was one of the founders, and he authorized the publication with a list of demands (right-to-left, no editing of original sound effects, etc), but he had nothing to do with the distribution.
Nagano left Toyspress a few years ago to make Automatic Flowers, so there may have been more disagreements behind the scenes than what we know.
>>13917719
Then that whole fiasco isn't really Nagano's fault now is it? It's like blaming Miyazaki for how badly Disney has been distributing his movies here.
>>13917660
Why would Anno be vindictive? For one, that's not the kind of person he is, he's a guy who seems to avoid conflict. And he's extremely grateful for Miyazaki in helping him get a jumpstart in his career.
His only real problem with Miyazaki himself seems to be the following
>One of the distinctive features of Studio Ghibli's works is that, even if there are obsessive actions, there are things which appear to have not forfeited their goal. Forfeiting one's goal leads to despair, and is a sickness that can prove fatal. I wonder if Miya-san and his people are familiar with that feeling of despair. Perhaps they don't want to show that anguish to other people. I think they specifically don't want to display the negative things called self-loathing and complexes to others. That's why Studio Ghibli's works can't show anything but superficial happiness and a reproduction of reality with all the dirty things omitted. A fiction that imitates reality, and nothing more than a single dream. I suppose that is the governance of entertainment. And I think that that is one of the reasons that Studio Ghibli's works are safely watchable, brand name creations.
Which even when re-reading it, makes me question if he's saying it in a negative sense, because he acknowledges that it's clearly a deliberate choice. The fact that he likes a lot of Miyazaki's movies and called Nausicaa a masterpiece makes me think that "safely watchable, brand name creations" isn't an insulting thing to him
>>13917719
Also, why didn't Nagano just get a different publishing company to do it, since his own was so inept when it came to the western market?
>>13917766
Not him but it's entirely possible that people simply didn't want to read it.
>>13917759
>Why would Anno be vindictive? For one, that's not the kind of person he is, he's a guy who seems to avoid conflict. And he's extremely grateful for Miyazaki in helping him get a jumpstart in his career.
I said Miyazaki was the one who was vindictive, not Anno. They were essentially saying the same thing but with different tones. Miyazaki is also grateful to Tezuka, but his criticism is much more sharply worded and bitter than Anno's. Also, Anno doesn't consider any of Miyazaki's movies masterpieces, he was referring to the Nausica MANGA.
>>13917558
>refuses to allow any decent modern plamo or toys to be made of his designs for decades
That is a load of crap. Volks has been doing those for how long?
When you care more about creators then their works, I think that's rather sad. It's like the people who will watch movies purely based on who directed it and not because of the movie itself.
>>13917766
Because most publishing companies at the time edited the fuck out of any manga they got their hands on. Censorship, flipping from right to left, changing the format of the panels, etc. I can see why he would take matters into his own hands; he doesn't want his original vision to get the 4kids treatment.
>>13917769
That may also be true, but when I was trying to hunt down the volumes in the early 2000's they were difficult as fuck to track down, especially since each one was split up so you could never get a "complete" volume unless you were lucky. Whenever I found it it was usually in very niche comic shops and not in places like Barnes and Noble. It was too much work so I just stopped.
>>13916526
>Getterfags
Uh... didn't he only work on the first three episodes of Getter Armgeddon? People mostly know him of Giant Robo the Animation and G Gundam, as well as Shin Mazinger.
I'm sorry, but "Getterfags" have become a serious boogeyman on this board. Their getting blamed for shit that doesn't even fit the bill at this point.
>>13917807
There's nothing wrong with having an interest in creators though
>>13916509
This is actually true, but Tomino isn't exactly the one at fault.
MSG was so successful, most studious see it as the model mecha anime at this point. This was compounded when series like Gundam SEED performed well.
>>13917807
Eh?
I understand raggign on seiyuu fans, who just watch a show for a voice.
But if it's someone as influential as a director or writer, watching a movie or anime series just because of their involvement isn't that weird. A lot of the time their influence shines through, for better or worse. There are of course flukes in both directions though.
>>13917750
Nagano was -too- demanding was the problem. Even Miyazaki made some compromises on the Nausicaa manga like letting it be flipped from left to right and changing the sound effects to English. Not to mention that he was already a huge name by the time the manga was published in the west because of Ghibli and so he had a lot more room for demands than Nagano. I still remember all the rants Torren Smith went on about how hard it was to get FSS over here.
>>13917785
>he was referring to the Nausica MANGA.
Rightfully so. The anime isn't good at all outside the technical quality of its animation.
>>13917864
>Not to mention that he was already a huge name by the time the manga was published in the west
no, not at all
the comics were released in the 90s back when the only things you could get commercially was the old Troma dub of Totoro, Warriors of the Wind, and the Streamline dubs of Laputa and his Lupin stuff.
this was before Mononoke
>>13917807
>When you care more about people than things, I think that's rather sad.
>>13917837
But moreso than their creations?
>>13917931
>when you care more about people that things
>on a board that is all about caring more about machines
>>13917931
Well put!
>>13917851
>But if it's someone as influential as a director or writer, watching a movie or anime series just because of their involvement isn't that weird.
Wierd no, but it does make you come across as a bandwagoner. Look at all the Urobuchifags.
>>13916444
Has Tezuka ever said anything about Miyazaki? He was alive to see him become popular in Japan all the way up to Totoro.
>>13918151
I doubt he even acknowledged him.
Laputa and Totoro both bombed, and Ghibli didn't become popular until after Kiki. Nausicaa did well, but at the time it looked like a one-hit wonder.
The 80's were also a time when Tezuka stopped caring about anime series and focused more on smaller experimental films, so he had even less reason to notice Miyazaki.
>>13918151
Tezuka was to obsessed with finishing Phoenix at the time
>>13918195
Too*
>>13917477
Why though? It's not like Nagano was ever a director or animator. I wouldn't be surprised if he really admired Miyazaki for being a very independent artist who did things on his own terms.
>>13918189
>Nausicaa did well
Castle in the Sky grossed more than Nausicaa, though.
>>13917785
If Miyazaki was ever at any point grateful, it sure seems like it got lost in a sea of resentment and mockery.
>>13918218
He saw Miyazaki as a rival.
Newtype and Animage were the two biggest monthly anime magazines back in the 80's and rivals with one another. A big reason for that was because FSS was serialized in Newtype while Nausicaa was serialized in Animage, and these two manga were the biggest selling points for their respective magazines (Animage more or less died after Nausicaa ended). Therefore, both manga were essentially competing with one another. They were both stylized after French comics with many Dune-inspired themes. They were also both written by insane controlling artists who absolutely refused to ask for help from any assistants.
Nagano no doubt saw Miyazaki and Nausicaa as his biggest rival at the time because of these similarities.
>>13918304
Just because they're rivals doesn't mean that they would have ill feelings towards each other though.
>>13915267
you think a creator who doesn't go out of his way to train another person to imitate them is a "failure"? I have no idea where you got that idea from
>>13918300
What he said about Tezuka isn't wrong though. Before it became purely about budget, a lot of a nine had limited animation because "that's how Tezuka did it so why should we change?"
>>13918631
Anime*
Fucking phone
>>13915258
And tomino is the jap George Lucas they're both has beens
>>13918928
Oh, anon, you cad. Are you still trying to force that meme?
>>13918631
Tezuka had no other way to do it because he got literally no money from the sponsors since they all assumed Astro Boy would be super cheap to make since it was a kid's show. Poor guy had to even spend from his own pocket. He spent most of the 80's saying how disgusted he became with the anime industry.
Animated movies were bombing hard at the time in Japan, so weekly TV series was the only way to save it. No one else other than Tezuka could have pulled it off. Miyazaki is an ungrateful hack.
>>13917825
>Getter robo is officially the new /m/ boogeyman
How did everything get this bad?
>>13919020
Hokuto no Gun aren't even bothering to keep one of their former members on a leash, so he's allowed to run wild in here.
>>13918304
FSS's biggest rival was Gundam. Which is why it was published in Newtype.
With IBO now and how much it rips off his work, it looks like Nagano got the last laugh.
>>13918957
But that's what I'm saying. Tezuka did it out of necesity, but then we had years of people following the way he did it when they HAD the money to do better.
>>13919485
It's wrong because Miyazaki is blaming Tezuka for how "cheap" anime productions had become when in reality it was the ONLY way to even make anime at the time, and it was revolutionary. It's like some snot-nosed little kid complaining about why the Wright brother's first airplane isn't as comfortable to fly in as dirigible.
>>13919510
The more I read about Miyazaki, the more I realize he's actually just a very envious and resentful prick. He hated Yamato and MSG despite both of them being landmark anime, gives the middle finger to Tezuka (only after he died because Miyazaki is a fucking pussy) and then kicked his son in the balls right when he needed help the most. The fact that anyone even thinks of worshiping him is terrifying.
>>13919530
Eh, the only real reason why people even worship him was really because of the quality of his work. He's a cunt yes, but he does make some good shit (at least pre post-SA).
>>13919530
Miyazaki is such an arrogant asshole it's not even funny.
>“But as far as animation—I say this believing that on this topic alone I have the right, and also some duty to say this—Everything that Tezuka-san had spoken about or advocated was wrong.” (“Tezuka Osamu ni ‘Kami no Te’ wo Mita Toki, Boku wa Kare to Ketsubetsu shita ”. Miyazaki, Hayao. Comicbox, May 1989)
>I have the right, and also some duty
Keep in mind this was way back when he had only four movies.
>>13919530
>MSG
I'd say the cons of gundam barely outweigh the pros
>>13919565
Doesn't matter if it's complete shit, it's a landmark series for better or worse.
>>13919588
I think it's alright to dislike something if you think it left a negative impact or, yknow, just didn't like it very much
>>13919256
>IBO rips off FSS
IBO rips off Break Blade and tries to wing it into notA/Z donut steel territory.
>>13919632
The story yes, but the designs are poor FSS imitations.
>>13916295
>What is star wars/star trek
>>13919565
Gundam is a 5 decade long franchise. No franchise survives unscathed after so long a time. This applies to Dragonball, Sailor Moon, Macross, and everything else thats still around.
>>13919638
That would imply that the designs were attractive knockoffs to begin with.
>People are so buttblasted that Miyazaki is a giant asshole and just have to tell everyone that
And? Almost no one would work with Kubrick for more than a single film, the man was the definition of an over opinionated, controlling, abusive to his actors asshole. The only people he was nice to were children.
>>13919656
Hit the post button too soon
Was going to say that it didn't change that people wanted to watch his films.
>>13919644
Everything turns to shit eventually.
Examples: Nintendo, Star Wars, dinosaurs.
Just enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts.
>>13916210
>Lucky Star was extremely influential in helping create the "cute girls doing cute things"
>>13913021
>Did he succeed?
Yes
>>13913021
Yes he did
>>13921575
>>13921579
Maybe you should actually read the article in context of what he's saying
>>13914361
>Zero otaku
That's actually kinda depressing. I mean yes the machine was a piece of miracle work in that he could get it to properly fly at all with what he did, and how fast it was.
But it's like glorifying a guillotine in what it means to history. There's a reason why Miyazaki never shows the Zero in the entire movie, not even in the ending (those planes in the dream sequence aren't Zeros, they're A5M Claudes). Because he wants to focus on the person who made the plane, not the plane itself.
>>13917586
I have almost all those volumes (27?)
the remaining few I need and incredible difficult to find.
I do like the over-sized aspect of the books
>>13921610
>No Zero in the entire movie
Fucking dropped, and i was pretty interested in the movie.
>>13921727
He says right in that link that he doesn't want to glorify it, even if he likes the plane.
Besides, you can't drop something you never picked up.
>>13921610
>it's like glorifying a guillotine in what it means to history
Zanscare pls go.
>>13921835
I was thinking of the french revolution, but ok
>>13914885
>But Tomino's work laid down the foundation for others to add their own stories to a living universe, which is part of what makes Gundam special and sets Gundam apart from other science fiction franchises.
>makes Gundam special and sets Gundam apart from other science fiction franchises.
About that...
>>13916313
But why, does he always shit on otaku like Miyazaki?
>>13921926
I think ANN thinks he's sexist.
Which is probably is to some degree, he's Japanese after all. But he doesn't let it come out in his work.
>>13919640
>star wars
>sci fi
Also neither of those have a 4chan board dedicated almost exclusively to them, so who won in the end?
>>13913021
They're both overrated. They made some good shit here and there.
>>13921877
Name another sci-fi series with a Windmill robot
>>13922126
Whirl in Transformers?
