He's a hypocritical liar who would betray and kill his best friend for purely selfish motives, and his idea of a midlife crisis is threatening everyone on Earth with death just so he could get a last fight with his rival.

It doesn't bother me so much, he's the villain and final boss of the story for two thirds of his franchise screentime, but when we get in dindu nuffin territory just because he's handsome and mysterious then it's kinda aggravating.

>>14502494
He's a handsome, mysterious psychopath who fancies little girls, so it's a matter of course that he'll be unironically loved by women and literal faggots.

Ironically, some random space autist with a bad haircut cucked him, bested him in combat, wrecked all of his plans, and even saved the world from global annihilation, proving that Char was actually a complete shitter the entire time.

He's arguably the most overrated character in Gundam, because he doesn't even have the godly skills to live up to his own messiah complex (a la Jesus Yamato) or the cunning to best the Federation without resorting to colony drops (a la Durandal).

His entire life was basically just a prolonged tantrum, and he still kept fucking everything up even after he died and came back as a ghost.

>>14502469
Char is increadibly petty. He will switch beliefs whenever it is convenient for his personal goals. He does have goals however. He just happens to be very easily distracted from them. Char struggles to form genuine relationships with people, instead feigning interest. Because of this, the few relationships in which he feels secure with someone are extremely precious to him, such as his relationship with Lalah. He detests leading others despite having the skills to do so. He's also a very vengeful person, holding grudges for long amounts of time. He's also a very jaded and cynical person with a pessimistic outlook. However he's very handsome, charming, and good at telling people what they want to hear.

>>14502494
>purely selfish motives
>>14502512
>messiah complex
Could you further explain these, please?

>>14502539
>incredibly petty
Could you provide your definition of the word, please? Also what other fictional characters, public or historical figures would you identify as having this personality trait?
> He will switch beliefs whenever it is convenient for his personal goals.
Could you provide examples of times he did that? What do you believe his personal goals are?

>>14502512
The reasons you're calling him overrated are precisely why he's so interesting. He is flawed. He is extremely morally dubious, if not completely in the wrong. And yet he's still attractive and charismatic. That is the sign of a well-written character, not some perfect uber-messiah like Kira Yamato.

Personally I really like the character. His flaws are what make him interesting, he's got a straightforwardness/selfishness I gotta respect. He's just like Reuenthal from LoGH.

>>14502512
>CCA proved Char was a complete shitter
If anything, CCA proved newtype bullshit will always triumph over the villain.

>>14502638
Being attractive and charismatic doesn't make him well written.

Those are red herrings.

In reality, rather than saying anything about him, they only serve to highlight how dumb, shallow or dishonest his fans (aka women) really are.

You can't ride his dick if he drops a colony on your face, but Char fags just can't into common sense.

>>14502663
Oh okay, you have some self-esteem strange issues. Never mind.

>>14502659
He was only a villain because he obsessed over newtybe bs, so without newtype bs he wouldn't have been the villain.

>>14502663
>>You can't ride his dick if he drops a colony on your face, but Char fags just can't into common sense.

He's a fictional character.

>>14502665
When i say newtype bullshit, I don't mean everything related to newtypes is inherently bullshit, I mean the bullshit is of a newtype nature. Axis shock is the most grating bullshit.

>>14502664
>m-muh char is a saint
>y-you're the one with issues

Right.

Let me just finish trying to cause the global extinction of humanity because my girlfriend cheated on me, then I'll tell you why you're a dumbass.

Oh wait, maybe I'm confusing myself with someone else.

You know, like a certain pink streaker.

>>14502676
I don't get why your so hung up on the fact that char is not a good person. You can like a character who is not a good person.

>>14502676
No, he's an awful, genocidal madman. He's also kind of pathetic and weak and clearly disturbed.

But the caliber of a show's writing isn't based on how perfect you make a character. It's actually much easier to write a messiah character, like say Kio in Gundam Age, who flies around disabling his enemies and yelling about war being bad, than it is to write a truly despicable human who remains interesting.

Okay, let's use an example from literature. Things Fall Apart is an extremely well-regarded book, one of the few works not written by a European/American to break through into the Western 'canon'. The main character is truly awful. He beats his wives, is arrogant and motivated largely by his own mis-placed sense of pride. Achebe's writing, however, is skilful enough to make him an effective and interesting character throughout.

Obviously not every character should be this flawed, but it is to Gundam's credit, I think, that a robot show for kids featured an incredibly flawed ideologue that the writer's were actually able to basically trick the audience into rooting for, when he is really mainly motivated by arrogance, self-loathing and pride. I think you have very little understanding between the differences of fiction and reality.

>>14502680
I'm hung up on the fact that people claiming to like him because he's flawed are really full of shit.

They like him because he's handsome and charismatic despite his flaws, not the other way around.

The point is, praising his flaws is just a tongue in cheek way of sidestepping around that he's a cookie cutter dipshit who's continued relevance comes only from being a pretty boy.

His entire archetype can basically be summed up as "generic evil bishounen."

>>14502663
>>14502695
>how dumb, shallow or dishonest his fans (aka women) really are.
>generic evil bishounen
What do you think his charisma is based on and how exactly does it speak negatively for him as a person?
Are you talking about physical appearance?
If this is so then, although it is just my private opinion, I consider this the least significant part of his character. I recommend you refrain from bringing it up any further.

>>14502695
His entire archetype can basically be summed up as "generic evil bishounen."

This stuff has gotta be seen in context though. I mean, for one I'm not entirely sure I agree with you, because the interesting thing about Char is that he becomes less and less charming as the series goes on. Okay, at the start of 0079 he is this cool riff on Charles anzavour in space, but I think by CCA he's more this pathetic, weak figure who's so hung up on the death of Lalah and his insecurities over Amuro that he's willing to destroy the earth for it. I don't think this is generic, like the writing of the film kind of goes out of its way to make you not like Char as a person. Hell, even his last line is completely without any cool 'charisma' factor, it's just kind of odd and naked ('Lalah could have been a mother to me' I mean).

But also, i'm not convinced the evil bishounen thing would have been as entrenched in 1979 as it is now?

>>14502469

Char literally did nothing wrong desu senpai

Only salty Federation-fags hate on him

>>14502707
I think it's based on not looking lik Mikhail Kaminsky.

Just try and prove me wrong.

>>14502717
But this is like saying 'oh, people only liked Dorian Gray because he's attractive!' Yeah, that's kind of the point. Char uses his natural charisma and attractiveness to gain people's trust, while lying to their face and plotting their downfall.

>>14502618
I feel bad for partially turning this thread into something else, so here we go
>purely selfish motives
Revenge, i guess. I mean most people kind of plan revenge, maybe Char had a plan too, but he just saw a chance and took it.

>messiah complex
I'm gonna assume the fact that he's taking it upon himself to force a change upon humanity. He believes that if he does nothing humanity will be unable to change itself (at least for the "better").

>incredibly petty
He cares a whole lot about some bullshit from 14 years ago that was partially his fault, but he puts the blame on Amuro, because it was also partially his fault. Really it's the lengths he went to that make his pettiness such a major complaint.

As for examples of others having this trait, I suppose Julius Caeser (crucifying pirates), Darius (Remember the Athenians)too. There's got to be more, I just don't know any. Reinhard and Reuenthal from LoGH are both fictional characters who let their egos get in the way.

>>14502721
In other words, he's your standard run of the mill beautiful person.

There's literally nothing intetesting or exceptional about him, except that he winds up being a complete fuckup for the most bland, asinine reasons.

>>14502722
It was actually Lalah's fault.

If she just stayed in the kitchen, Char would've died and Amuro could've picked her up on the rebound.

>>14502723
Well he's historically very important due to his heritage, which he uses to his advantage, but yeah I think you're somewhat correct. Char hides behind big ideological pronouncements, but in reality he's just a petty narcissist who can't accept his own insecurities. The thing I think you're missing is that *this is what the writer's are going for'. He is an intentionally flawed character.

>>14502728
The whole "it was on purpose" thing is just the old version of "Valvrave was an unintentional comedy."

Char just happened to be such a dipshit thst people mistook him for deep writing, just like people mistook Valvrave's bad writing for something remotely resembling humor.

In reality, neither is really the case.

>>14502732
So you think Char was meant to be simply really charismatic and cool, and his pathetic/flawed elements are accidental mistakes that arose from the writing process?

This is an extremely bizarre suggestion to make, I think, but fair enough.

What are some characters in Gundam you consider well-written?

>>14502737
>implying Gundam has any well written characters

It's just a chinese toy commercial.

The characters or plot aren't what you're supposed to watch it for.

>>14502751
So what I'm getting from this is that you would prefer if every character in gundam was just super competent at everything, had no flaws, so things were more focused on the robots?

A'ight.

>>14502717
A lot of charismatic people are not very good-looking.
Do you think that if he was less handsome and looked like any normal guy, or like Gihren, or even like Dozle for example, but had the same kind of bearing and presence, this would have impacted in any way his role in the story or his standing with other characters? If you do, then in what way?

>>14502757
I'd rather people stop overanalyzing a buch of personified cliches, and instead simply respect the robots.

>>14502766
For the sake of "what if," I'd go so far as to say that Char wouldn't have had a single fan with a neckbeard, trilby, lisp and more than a few extra pounds, as well as three more decades worth of aging, even if his personality and mannerisms remained exactly the same.

In story, I think he would've been treated like a villain of the week before being turned into a delicious hamburger.

Just sayin'.

>>14502722
>some bullshit from 14 years ago
How do you determine the relative importance of events and whether or to what extent they deserve complaint.

>>14502793
This is such a weird argument. I could use this on literally any kind of byronic character, or any sort of attractive bishounen character. Char's attractiveness is part of his character, he clearly uses it to help himself gain a foothold with people and charm them.

Also no one is saying Gundam has amazing characters on the level of great literature or anything, just that they are slightly more complex and interesting than one would expect from a 70's robot cartoon. Sort of like how Spider-Man was slightly more human than a lot of other superhero's at the time.

>>14502728
>narcissist
When and in what way has he exhibited any such behavior or opinions.

>>14502727

Wasn't Char the one insisting she pilot? And she was doing it because he wanted to and he had saved her so she did what he wanted?

>>14502899
His complete inability to deal with defeat, his Machiavellian attitude in interpersonal relationships, his lack of empathy. I think a lot of Char's actions point to some kind of developmental disorder (probably owing somewhat to all the trauma in his childhood). This is probably why Yas writes him as a sociopath, but I think this is a mis-step. Could a sociopath really care for someone in the way he did for Lalah? Or was Lalah more to do with his own feelings of failure than actual empathy? But either way, NPD seems to fit him, I think.

>>14502906

I'm not even sure he cared truly for Lalah, as opposed to just really valuing her. Even his last line is whinging about what she could have been to him, rather than her loss itself. He was a sociopath in CCA and not just Origin though I think. Even the original 0079 is suggestive of it.

>>14502858
"some bullshit" was just the generic description I used to refer to the Lalah event, and it's not about them deserving complaint so much as it is them receiving complaint. Complaint was kind of the wrong word to use to, It implies discussing the subject is complaining. I should've said
>Really it's the lengths he went to that makes his pettiness outstanding

But to try to answer your question, i'd say the writing can make it quite clear how important events are to characters. Not sure if I know what you meant though.

>>14502689
>awful, genocidal madman
By saying "awful" do you imply malignant intent? Do you consider all acts of violence to be a result of malignant intent? If not what sets them apart?
In Char's case how do you identify he has malignant intent?

>>14502932
Well I mean he was willing to cause mass genocide on a level never seen before primarily to settle a decade old grunge.

>>14502928
I know what you were referring to.
My question is in the given situation to what lengths would it be acceptable to go to without being regarded as "petty"? On what basis and according to what circumstances do you determine the appropriate reaction to any given situation?

>>14502962
>primarily to settle a decade old grunge
By this do you mean that
a.he initiated axis drop with the only purpose of settling his personal grudge.
b.his personal grudge was a deciding factor in choosing his course of action
c.he prioritized his the fulfillment of his private goals rather than the successful completion of the operation
or any combination of these or something entirely different?
Also what do you think his "grudge" consisted of, what it was due to and what exactly he hoped to achieve with his actions?

>>14502469
But the big question is "Was Char the Newtypes all along?"

>>14503015
how bout you watch 0079 zeta and CCA again before asking

>>14503050
Maybe I am stupid. Humor me.

Char is dumb and smells like poop.

>>14502751
(You)

>>14502469
The only person Char betrayed was himself. Everything else was strictly business.

>>14503298
In what way?

>>14502494
>just so he could get a last fight with his rival.
He couldn't just... challenge Amuro to a duel? No politics or anything involved? Given he was the "leader of the AEUG" the dude could've easily gotten in contact with Amuro. Hell, he could've visited Londo Bell and they'd have let him drop in for a visit without question to catch up on old times with an old war buddy.

>>14502732
wew lad.
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l
a
d
.

>>14503396
I'm not sure Amuro would agree to a duel to the death for no apparent point other than simply to duel to the death.

So why ZZ crew didn't show up in CCA again?

>>14503737
they're mostly kids who weren't actual soldiers and didn't give a shit about the war

judau's gang were opportunists who weren't exactly about fighting the good fight and had to be persuaded to join

IIRC roux was a hired by AE who was tasked with delivering the ZZ parts to the argama and supplement their pilots

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>>14503737
Judau went to jupiter then Ideon happened.

>>14502494
>his idea of a midlife crisis
Some people say that, I don't know if jokingly or not, but I always thought it rings kind of true except the feel is somewhat different. And you know what, I just researched it and it turns out that there is such a thing as a quarter-life crisis. Just listen to this:
>The quarter-life crisis is a period of life ranging from twenties to thirties, in which a person begins to feel doubtful about their own lives, brought on by the stress of becoming an adult.
>The conflict associated with young adulthood is the Intimacy vs. Isolation crisis. After establishing a personal identity in adolescence, young adults seek to form intense, usually romantic relationships with other people. Common symptoms of a quarter life crisis are often feelings of being "lost, scared, lonely or confused" about what steps to take in order to transition properly into adulthood.
There was actually such a thing! It's like someone wrote an article about CCA. Tomino is a fucking genius.
And then they say he knows nothing about actual human beings.