Hollywood "Mecha"
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
How do we fix it?
Does it need to be fixed?
Where's the flair? Even regular military mech's can have some design flourish.
>>14285920
They don't need to be fixed, dude, they look fucking badass. Even the bayformers have some charm.
Is Robot Jox the only movie that did western mechs right? Pacific Rim mechs are meme tier and the good ones had no screen time, like Romeo and Ronin.
>>14285920
The problem with western mecha is the actor's face has to be visible almost all the time. Western actors are EXTREMELY vain. Very few actors are willing to do a role where their face isn't visible. Yes, there was the new Judge Dredd movie but that is the exception, not the rule.
It's why the "All You Need is Kill" adaptation moved away from the closed helmeted power armour to that gay as fuck fully exposed exoskeleton. So you could see Tom Cruise's face.
>>14285967
>Western actors are EXTREMELY vain. Very few actors are willing to do a role where their face isn't visible.
Actually it's more because big studios are convinced that people only go to movies to see the faces of their favorite actors for as long as possible.
That's why big scifi movies HAVE to have some dumb A-list actor/actress in them and that actor/actress HAS to show his/her dumb face the whole time.
>>14285967
>>14285987 beat me to it, but yeah, it's more of the actor being the one of biggest appeals to the masses and Hollywood studios being unwilling to sacrifice any screentime because of it.
>>14285967
There's also the issue of just about every Western mech or powered armor that isn't the Iron Man suit being overdesigned.
>>14285956
I disagree. Especially with the two on the left (Avatar and Matrix). They look so basic and not really very versatile. Mechs as a concept are kind of dumb, but the extent to which Hollywood tries to present them so "realistically" or seriously kind of hurts the design.
I also find the bayformers to be a mess of jagged edges and car parts that kind of make the whole adaptation pointless. Since they dont transform in any logical way that can be adapted to toys/figures.
>>14285999
I can agree on the case of Transformers with all their bullshit slivers of metal, but most of the time they're not overdesigned, they simply aren't upscaled action figures like eastern mechs.
They're just giant robots.
>>14285999
To use an example from OP's pic, the suits from Avatar weren't really overdesigned. They look rather silly and are hilariously impractical as a combat design, but they have plenty of smooth surfaces and few unnecessary moving parts.
There are complaints to be made about them, but I don't think "overdesigned" is one.
>>14286011
Well Avatar and Matrix's both make sense in their own worlds. Since the AMP suits in Avatar are basically forklifts that they retrofitted to use guns. And the APE suits in the Matrix are salvaged power armour frames that were originally deployed in the first human robutt war. Webm related.filename VERY relatedThey've been recycled and reused so many times that that's all that's left.
>>14286011.
>They look so basic and not really very versatile. Mechs as a concept are kind of dumb, but the extent to which Hollywood tries to present them so "realistically" or seriously kind of hurts the design.
Not in the examples you gave.
All those are military mechs, one of which was built out of spare parts in a post-apocalyptic industrial world. If they looked any sleeker and more polished and simple, they'd look out of place as hell.
I can understand the appeal of a mech that looks like a ferrari but until we get what's supposed to be an adaptation of Bubblegum Crisis or someshit, where the mechs are supposed to look sexy more than they're supposed to look badass, practical and intimidating, I won't complain about that.
Point taken about transformers though.
>>14286027
>All those are military mechs
Not the ones in Avatar. Those are industrial labors those mercs jury rigged to shoot guns.
>>14286030
even more reason for them to be industrial-looking
>>14285920
>not posting the Will Smith's wild wild west tachikoma
>>14285960
>I didn't like it so it doesn't count.
>>14285920
Real military machines, from a design (aesthetic) perspective, have large flat planes and relatively simple geometry. They're not unlike toyetic Japanese mechs in terms of the general philosophy.
This "realistic" kibbles and bits and exposed motors approach is the antithesis of realism. So many exposed moving parts is a recipe for disaster outside of well controlled test environments. The way to fix it is to adopt a minimalist approach to design. Personally the Avatar mechs weren't that bad even if they looked a little funny. They look less threatening and more funny, but more functional than mechs from other movies. The worst part is when you see futuristic guns that are just a mess of exposed parts, it's like staring into a partially dissected human
If you mean how do you fix Hollywood, well it can only be fixed by crashing and burning
>>14286011
Besides looking like heaps of metal poorly welded togheter, my problem with the Bayformers is the shitton of exposed wires and internal machinery. I find that very distracting in any robot that engages in close range combat, I'm always expecting someone to cut the wires or shoot exposed gears. And a lot of western mecha designs have a lot of exposed wires that are never once addressed as weak spots nor exploited in combat.
>>14286068
No shit retard, why should someone tolerate something they don't like just because divergent opinions damage your autistic sensabilities?
>>14286099
Nice projection.
It's more like you can't handle divergent opinions and need to invalidate everything you dislike.
Not liking and thinking they're shit is fine, but if you're going to bring it up in a post at come up with a reasoning that's beyond calling things memes.
>>14286094
I agree. It's baffling how these messes of twisted metal and exposed machinery are viewed as more realistic than something covered in armor. it's like people never saw a tank.
I'd like to see a better western mech masterpost
The only way to fix mecha in the west is to overcome the insane mind set that giant robots have to be "realistic" or possess traits that make people think they're realistic.
As much as I hate the Transformers movie, they've been the ones who done this the best.
>>14286193
Pacific Rim had great designs though.
>>14286193
Speak for yourself, I've always preferred robots that look industrial, and as long as western designers think that realistic=industrial, I'll keep supporting "realistic" mech designs even if they have wires hanging in plain sight.
I think the Autobot transformers look good but not the newest ones from.the new movie. Those look terrible.
>>14286240
It would be better if eventually they started looking like "mass production" industrial and less "test prototype" industrial though. Unless the robots are actual testing prototypes in the setting.
>>14285920
>That Edge of Tomorrow pic
>exposed head and thighs
Wow it's like they want the soldiers to die.
About the argument about studios needing the actor's face, just make inside the helmet shots and have it open when he's not engaging in combat. Some people would complain it's like Ironman but that is the most elegant decision to make convincing looking power armors and show the star's face.
>>14286193
kinda agree even though they don't really looked that realistic
>>14285960
>Pacific Rim mechs are meme tier
>meme
>>14286276
In all actuality, they'd do it like the first Ironman and just have the actor not in the suit for 80% of the movie.
>>14286276
There's actually plot related reasons why Cage doesn't wear the helmet which make sense beyond actor vanity.
And no matter the criticisms, I'm still glad Tom Cruise was baller enough to fly out ahead of schedule so they could actually start building practical suits instead of CG bullshit, also the Jackets >> those Matrix chicken walkers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_glOzaQhn5w
>>14286024
Except it doesn't look like the ones in the ova, there they controlled using both feet and arms put into connectors instead of using some sort of bizarre puppet thing
>>14286276
>Wow it's like they want the soldiers to die.
No amount of armor is going to protect them from super sonic railgun shots the aliens go around shooting, even the novel and manga said that the armor isn't all that useful at defending the soldier since one shot is all they need as each nail has a bunch of nanomachines that are supposed to terraform the planet and movie armor he tried to use the full armor but it didn't help him, by the end he was just using his save scumming ability to predict the enemy attacks
>>14286332
>>14286310
I have not watched Edge of Tomorrow yet, I have just read the manga and book. Good to know there's a reason he doesn't use the helmet.
But about the armor design, while one shot from the Nails can easily blast through it, I always figured they were protection against debris and other hazards that arise in such a chaotic battlefield. The full armor at least from what I've seen also has those exposed bits, So even if a soldier evades a shot they are still likely to sustain lethal damage from shit flying from the explosion..The thig area is particularly prone to bleeding out thanks to an important artery being close to skin.
That aside, I do appreciate Tom Cruise's efforts to have his projects look realistic thorugh practical effects and insane stunts rather than CGI whenever possible. Hollywood needs more people like that.
>>14286284
If the suit scenes were actual stuntwork and not CGI, I wouldn't have a problem with that.
>>14285920
>How do we fix it?
Sometimes trying to fix something isn't a good idea.
When it comes to mechanical design in modern hollywood films would be more pertinent to just put it out of its misery and start again.
>>14286587
>When it comes to mechanical design in modern hollywood films would be more pertinent to just put it out of its misery and start again.
So, trying to fix it?
>>14286598
You can fix a car by rolling it off of a cliff and buying a new one?
>>14286630
No, but razing existing Western inclinations on mechanical design to the ground and starting from scratch is most certainly within the field of 'fixing'.
>>14285920
For whatever reason America is obsessed with practicality when it comes to giant fucking robots running around with giant versions of normal weapons. Until that mindset goes away hollywood mecha will always be held back.
>Japanese mech have never been designed with function or practicality in mind
Not having exposed internals all over would be a decent start.
>>14286685
Not to the point where everything is just a shittier version of a tank with exposed wiring all over the place.
>>14285960
you're a meme
>>14286685
I think the Armored cores are a great example of a perfect blend between the "realistic" tastes of the west and the super/anime mecha feel of japan.
>>14285999
The Iron Man suits from the first two movies where perfect. Probably because they got a not-Hollywood guy to design them(Adi Granov, who designed the modern suit in the comic). But then Iron Man 3 came out, and while there where a few good designs, a lot of it felt filtered through the Hollywood mech lens. That said the new suits from Avengers AoU/CA:CW aren't that bad.
>>14286097
>And a lot of western mecha designs have a lot of exposed wires that are never once addressed as weak spots nor exploited in combat.
Almost literally all the combat in the Transformers movies relies upon meleé where in a blade is wedged into an opening in the plating and used to rip an enemy apart(usually at the head, or face).
>>14287356
Holy shit, why are the Mk's IV and VII the only good looking ones there? The rest just cant quite figure out what to do with the colors/joints.
>>14286310
Props to Tom being willing to get all dirty like that
>>14285920
No flying idea if someone already said this, but what do all this machines have in common? They're all (probably) cheap, mass produced mechs, save optimus. Why delve tons of time and materials into one suit when you can just overwhelm the enemy with numbers and firepower?
I personally don't really understand why they don't do it like Iron Man and have close up HUD shots of the actor, or cockpit shots, if they need to show the actor's face.
Hell, they could do it like anime or PacRim and have helmets that shows the face of the actor.
>>14286240
You can do industrial without doing that shit though. Most Walker Machines didn't have tons of exposed wiring, for instance, and pretty much all of those were literally built for non-combat purposes (excepting the Combat Mecha and arguably Walker Gallier)
>>14287372
Well, the Mk 1 isn't really supposed to look good, so that one's excused.
ask japs to redesign them all
>>14285960
Everyone else already proved you're an idiot so I'll just call you stupid.
Stupid.
>>14286094
This this this a million times this.
I like how nobody is sticking up for the matrix mechs those things are toilet bowl skid tier. The whole thing is a walking weak point.
>>14286094
>giand glass canopy
>canopy compromised
With this approach the only realistic mechs are a AT-whatever from Star Wars
>>14286094
But almost all of the foes that Optimus kills when he's not using brute force (like against the Fallen, Megatron, or Boba Transformer, where he either carves, cleaves, or physically tears the given opponent apart) he's targeting a joint
>>14286357
why would he care about being killed
>>14286094
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v09h2gqhnKM
Whoa, whoa! Hitler much?
>>14288893
Cage (and Rita) don't need to worry about being killed. But I'm talking about the armor design in general. Most soldiers were not in loops, and the higher ups don't know that is even happening.
>>14285920
>>14285967
Honestly, they should take some lessons from the Iron Man movies.
You got a nice closeup on the actor's face while getting details about what his suit is showing him.
>>14288940
I haven't seen the movie in a while but I'm 90% sure everyone else wears a helmet.
>>14285967
It's not just the actors. The directors too. There have been interviews with the Matrix directors, and James Cameron where they say realized it's stupid to have the pilots exposed, but there was no way the audiences "could identify with" the characters piloting if they couldn't see their faces.
Which ironman and district nine proved are bullshit. Hollywood still does it.
>>14288967
Yes, that's why I focused on the gaps in several other parts of the armor, that even the full armor sets display.
>>14285920
Well...
>>14290186
Those knives were standard issue? I though the commander had it custom made.
>>14285920
What's wrong with Avatar's mechs? They're the best part of it. As much as I love PR, I'd like to see more "smaller"-scale mechs vs. monsters.
>>14290219
Ka-bars gonna ka-bar
>>14285920
>>14290186
You know if you made the AMP's torso solid metal, added shoulder armor, stuck a sensor head on top, and put wheels on the heels, you'd pretty much have a scopedog
>>14290649
Legs are too short.
>>14286094
Yes, it's the fucking greebles, they've infested nearly all western sci-fi concept design. Audiences apparently want everything to be covered with useless shit in order for it to look "Realistic"
People want the appearance of industrial power and gritty realism, they don't care if that's actually practical. Blame star wars and Aliens for popularizing the used future aesthetic. Now everyone flys around in dirty space trucks and paint is a lost technology. Only the badguys ever maintain their equipment.
And the "grit" is always really artificial looking. Like buying jeans pre-distressed.
Robot Wars and Robot Jox
>>14285987
This.
>>14286011
Dude, in that group of pictures the only acceptable one is the one from Avatar. It's not unnecessarily greebly like the matrix and Transformers and it's not trying to be tacticool greebly like the power suit in edge of tomorrow.
The Avatar powersuit seems to forgo most of the useless details and instead has flat or smooth surfaces like you might find on actual military hardware and actually seems to come from the school of a lot of older Japanese mech design.
>>14286027
The Matrix one is just meant to look like it came out of a bizarre mix of cyberpunk and HR gieger just like the sentient robots, there's nothing reasonable about the design other than it trying to fit a very specific aesthetic.
>>14286094
>>14291556
Ah well, these guys pretty much hit on every point I had to make so whatever.
>>14290186
>still has the retarded huge windscreen made out of sugar glass
>>14290649
>If you added Scopedog parts to the design, you'd pretty much have a Scopedog
>disregarding all Neill Blomkamp designs.
>>14296021
Still plagued by exposed parts.
>>14285920
>armored personnel unit
>completely exposed pilot seat front and center
>armored
>>14296031
>Still plagued by exposed parts.
i thought OP was wondering about 'flair' and aesthetics
>>14287372
mk V is awesome , so shut your whore mouth .
As for VI and VIII those were incomplete or in testing phase when they were deployed , oddly enough tony kept VI unfinished for avengers
>>14296072
I like Blomkamps art style, and Aaron Beck's too, since they seem to overlap.
It just seems that every hack with a cintiq and a pirated copy of photoshop seems intent on copying their blocky utilitarian aesthetic.
>>14287356
I'm fond of Mk I myself. Really Ned Kelly vibe.
基本的にこのぐらいがいいって事だろ、トレーラーで運ぶにはちょうどいいサイズだ
>>14296601
>titanfall
>mecha
Pick 1.
>>14296630
s t a l e m e m e
If that leaked image of a titanfall 2 mech is real, hooooooo boy we're in for some good shit, design-wise
>>14297869
>mech
>>14296021
Oh wow, the CGI is nowhere near as good as I remembered it being.
>>14297899
It's fine for a 2009 movie that was not high budget.
Bigger movies today do worse sometimes.
>>14296630
>>14297884
Think the dev realized he killed the only market that would give his game staying power? And that because of that dumb statement killed his game before it even came out?
Think they'll actually realize that mecha fans are the only ones who will play Titanfall once the flavor of the month aspect of it wears off, this time around?
>>14297962
What did he say that pissed people off? I didn't follow that game much closely.
>>14297975
It was an article more or less saying that "Titans aren't your granddaddy's mechs" with those mechs likely only being AT-ATs from Star Wars, and MechWarrior providing the misconception that Battletech mechs are slow and fuck.
It rubbed people the wrong way, and came across as a guy trying to make his new stuff look cool by dissing others. And it was really ignorant about mecha as a genre.
>>14297962
Lack of single player didn't help.
>>14285920
Like a lot of people have said, I think the biggest problem is the fact that so much of the time they want the robots to look "realistic", which doesn't necessarily translate to actual realism in the sense of designing a robot that could probably work in real life, but just one that LOOKS realistic. The result is something with a few of the outward aesthetics of real-life military hardware slapped onto a frame which is as intentionally dull as possible, but with enough moving bits and extra shit to at least attempt to make it look interesting in motion. It usually isn't and just looks like a fucking mess where it could actually look cool if it were simplified and maybe streamlined a bit. Bayformers is the most obvious example of this.
Another big factor I think is that when mechs show up in Hollywood movies, they're usually there incidentally as opposed to being a major focus of the movie. Pacific Rim is the only notable exception that I can think of, and it shows. The designs are vastly better than what we're used to for Hollywood, because in it's case there was actually a concerted effort put into actually making the robots look cool. Part of this was the fact that it was actively targeting a demographic that would care about stuff like that in addition to the more action movie audience. In the case of Bayformers, they're not targeting the hardcore nostalgiafags or mecha fans, but the most casual and broad audience of normal moviegoers who just want to see a dumb action movie that happens backed by brand recognition for a well-known popular franchise. Most people know about Transformers and might have a passing familiarity with it, but the amount of hardcore fans is so miniscule in comparison that the movies weren't really made with them in mind because if they catered to that demographic too hard, tickets probably wouldn't sell as well. They're generic action movies before specifically mecha movies, and that's true of most Hollywood movies with robots
>>14298143
So yeah, basically Hollywood mecha is kind of lackluster because the people in charge don't expect that many moviegoers to actually give a shit about the mecha, except in the case where a movie is actually ABOUT the mecha to some degree, which is unfortunately so fucking rare that I can only think of one example off the top of my head.
Seriously, is Pacific Rim the only movie of it's kind to come out of America? I'm just talking about live-action stuff by the way.
Bayformers look like Obari designed them.
>>14298171
No way, too narrow shoulders.
>>14298171
I fucking wish.
>>14298176
they're made out of long slivers of metal
very Obari
>>14298171
>Obari Transformers with JAM Project soundtrack
Fucking fund it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8T_A0-JGok
>>14297869
>stale
The meme will never die.
>>14298171
Really? I see it more towards Katoki, except with even more ricing.
Realism is the cancer killing creativity in part because the people aiming for realism have no comprehension of reality.
Hell, reality is often more advanced than the shit writers and directors think up.
I find it amazing that they don't just do something like the Raiden if they want 'realistic'.
>>14297899
If I recall district nine correctly most of the mecha action happens during very high-strung scenes with a lot of fast camerawork.
Loved D9.
'realistic' vs 'fantasy' mecha is one argument (one that I'm tired of to death). But if we're talking about Hollywood depictions then I think the argument is less about realism vs fantasy and more about live action vs animation.
Are there any notable examples of Japanese live action movies with mecha and robots in them? How are they usually depicted there?
>>14300979
its usually horrid shitty CGI robots, or amazing animatronic puppets and suits.
>>14301029
How do they differ visually, though? Are there any good examples or pictures? How much does live action design vary between Japan and the West?
(also, ideally original examples not based on existing manga/anime/games)
>>14300979
The powered armor in Starship Troopers was okay. Not exactly motion-capture standard but the movement sequences had a natural progression. The exoskeleton is a wheeled design, so not much movement there.
The mecha in Planzet had highly detailed designs but the animation and movement of it would probably earn the movie a permanent spot on /m/'s shitpost list if it was any more popular than "under the radar".
>>14301058
Those are both cg animated movies, right? Does the Japanese film industry do anything live action relating to mecha or is it not big enough for that?
I think someone else earlier in the thread said it better: that the mecha designs in the OP don't look amazing because they're in films which aren't meant to appeal to a mecha audience but a much wider/more general audience, people who aren't going to be concerned if the mecha are ugly.
If there were films like that in Japan (scifi movies with robots in that weren't aimed that robot fans specifically) then it might be a better point of comparison.
>>14299670
>Realism is a cancer because this product is unrealistic
The avatar mech is decently designed for a big forklift with guns, but what the hell is with that blindspot? how the hell is he supposed to aim the gun if he cant see it when its in ready position?
>>14285987
>Actually it's more because big studios are convinced that people only go to movies to see the faces of their favorite actors for as long as possible.
>That's why big scifi movies HAVE to have some dumb A-list actor/actress in them and that actor/actress HAS to show his/her dumb face the whole time.
Is that why Dredd flopped cuz Carl Urban was under the mask the whole time?
>>14301406
Maybe. It's a shame too since I liked that he willingly did that.
>>14285987
It's basically a few million dollars worth of free advertising for the film.
>>14301406
It's more to do with the rating. That sort of shows tend to not get much advertising and that means less people know about it. Deadpool is an exception.
>>14288858
Spinel, dude, look it up
The military is already developing super strong "glass" that they say can be used as transparent armor for vehicles.
Since transparent armor is a cost effective way to give someone a really good view / line of sight, it makes sense that in 500 years we'd have pushed the technology far past the point where transparency = fragility.
>>14286332
>save scumming
I kek'd hard
Thanks anon
>>14306918
Except the Avatar mechs got penetrated by bow and arrows.
Sure, they were real big arrows, but the cockpits weren't exactly armored.
>>14285920
Fuck Hollywood
