![1458209476895[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hN4QVXp.jpg "1458209476895[1].jpg")
Just remember this guy started out as a juvenile delinquent and ended the series as a respected officer and war hero, while Harry Kim remained the naive young guy the entire run of the series.
It's a snapshot of the differences between DS9 and Voyager.
>>14006283
Nobody got promoted on Voyager. It's hard to do that when you're completely cut off from the chain of command and authority to actually promote people.
>>14006512
You expect Janeway and her obsession with straining coffee from every nebula they pass to be a competent officer?
And how many times did Seven throw herself at Harry? But no he wanted to be sidekick to Captain Proton
>>14006283
HEY! that's Juvenile delinquent space jew to you mister!
>>14006512
Picard gave a field promotion to Weasley, I don't see why Voyager couldn't do he same.
>>14006283
DS9 has so much going for it. Best story arc, best ship, best captain. It just doesn't stop being the best.
>>14006544
Ripping off the best (and better) show. It keeps going.
>>14006546
Yep. Still the best of it's own franchise.
>>14006544
mah prophet
![galactic-map[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/o9F486w.jpg "galactic-map[1].jpg")
Star Fleet ships zip around the "known space" part of the galaxy in a few weeks. Yet it was supposed to take Voyager 70 years to get back from the far side of the delta quadrant. When it should be 5-10 years at most.
>>14006512
Pretty sure Tuvok got a promotion to Lieutenant Commander at one point. I recall a ceremony for it.
Tom also got demoted to Ensign and then promoted back to Lieutenant about a dozen episodes later. I'm not really sure if Tom was even a proper member of Starfleet when they left the Alpha Quadrant, never mind the Maquis.
>>14006697
Tuvok also got that chocolate knife ear waifu and brain damage
>>14006512
>Nobody got promoted on Voyager. It's hard to do that when you're completely cut off from the chain of command and authority to actually promote people.
You failed to understand the OP criticism. Promotion has nothing to do with it. The problem with Voyager is that over the course of seven seasons the characters don't fucking change one bit. There is no character development at all. And things get worse when they go full retard (ehm I meant full holodeck retard). At least in Deep Space Nine you fucking get to see characters change for the better or worse over the course of the seven years. No such thing is present in Voyager.
>>14006529
Wasn't the coffee thing just their attempt to be more TNG? Give her a drink catchphrase like Picard had?I like to imagine her walking into the holodeck and being the same way. "Computer: Man. Large. Black."
>>14006748
>>14006741
>The problem with Voyager is that over the course of seven seasons the characters don't fucking change one bit
This isn't entirely fair. The Doctor and Seven, godid get quite a bit of character development, You're right about the rest of the cast, though.
>>14006823
>develop the good characters
>ignore the shitty ones
makes sense
>>14006677
>in a few weeks.
I think it makes more sense to say months.
>>14006888
even if it is months to go from the farthest points.
Voyager's trip should still be 10 years or less.
>>14006903
Well they could have gotten home in 5mins if Janeway didn't destroy the only way home then lose that wormhole they SAT IN FRONT OF FOR DAYS because she threw a hissy fit over a non federation species doing somethign against federation laws on a non federation world and then every way home after those because she insisted on the scenic route.
>>14006727
>brain damage
Ah, so he got to watch Star Trek V before boarding.
>>14006991
Worse they let him see the captain he'd ben spending years stuck on the same ship with.
>>14006941
You have to wonder if there was some poor ensign in charge of a "how many more days till we get back to Earth" calendar. When the started it was only going to take 75 years, but with the shore leave and stopping for orchids you know that calendar had to reach 200 years at some point.
>>14007100
Pretty sure if they'd had someone like that they'd have killed Janeway considering she cost them what 5? 10? 'Go straight to the Alpha Quadrant' doohickies
before they even got to Borg space?
As i said Janeway wanted to take the scenic route and fuck holograms and anyone who wanted to go home was shit out of luck.
>>14006677
Voyager's timeframe matches up pretty well with warp factor scaling according to official charts, and the stated distance they had to travel. If anything, it's all the other series faults for drastically misrepresenting how long it should take to zip around "known space".
It may sound like I'm defending Voyager. I'm not. This just happens to be one of the times it was relatively sensible and consistent.
>>14006697
Tom, like Chakotay, was an academy graduate who left Starfleet. Well, in Tom's case, he fucked up, got people killed, and lied about it. So he was kicked out rather than resigned.
In fact, as I recall originally they were going to have the character he played in that TNG episode "The First Duty" be on Voyager. But they decided that his character was too irredeemable to be one of the "good guys", so they created the Tom Paris character instead.
OH BABY TOUCH MY LOBES
>>14007164
Wanna go to Kronos?
>>14007172
Not irredeemable, they just didn't want keep paying royalties to the writer of The First Duty for using his character.
>>14007202
despite that, I gotta say I liked the new klingon design
>>14007204
Is there a source? Because so far as I know the explanation for using the same actor but only a similar character is all hearsay anyway.
Not saying you're wrong. Either explanation makes sense. I just heard differently is all.
>>14007193
>>14007213
No source
They have said he's too irredeemable, but they would have kept having to pay royalties to keep using the first duty character, so it makes sense they would make a oc donut steel version of him to avoid that, not the first time star trek has done something like that when it comes to money either.
I love Federation ship designs, and no arguments about exposed bridges or poor uses of volume can dissuade me from that opinion.
>>14007213
>>14007249
>>14007204
>>14007172
If you watched the episode, the whole issue of Locarno being 'irredeemable' is questionable at best because at the end of the episode, he took full responsibility and said the others on the team shouldn't be punished which is why they weren't all expelled. Since for all his actions, he still put the team first. If he was irredeemable, he'd have tried to put the blame on one of the other members, or deny any wrong doing throughout even after the evidence of the cover up was found.
The not confirmed, but accepted explanation is that the Writers of the episode would have to be paid royalties every time Locarno appeared, so just about every episode, and since the budget REALLY matters for a TV series, that's something that was feasible. So they just created an Expy and ended up getting the same actor. The whole 'irredeemable' explanation was something said by the actor and an easy cop out so they could avoid the whole writer issue.
>>14006677
Wait, the Krenim Imperium was that big?
>>14007407
At the height of their power, sure.
>>14007322
>powered by the hearts of alien orphans
>>14007343
Yes basically this, it's been a while since I've watched voyager and The First Duty.
It's always been my headcanon that it was Tom Paris in The First Duty and not Locarno because of how things played out with the royalty reindeer games.
>>14006546
>le babylon 5 meme
Sure way to spot a moron
>>14007453
If you think about it, those alien orphan hearts were far, far more effective than those episodes made it seem.
The Equinox had only been stranded a relatively short while longer than Voyager, yet had made it just as far despite Voyager being almost three times faster than the Equinox (Voyager's max speed of Warp 9.975 equals nearly 3,000x speed of light. Equinox's Warp 8 top speed is about 1,000x light speed).
This much is stated in the show (though without the fanboy knowledge that warp speeds increase exponentially the closer you get to 10, that speed difference doesn't seem to be quite so much as it really is). What they also don't draw attention to is that by that point Voyager had tens of thousands of light years leaped ahead via shortcuts such as Kes' actions in "The Gift" and so on. Equinox had none of those, as well as a much rougher time getting through the space they did cover before discovering orphan drive due to being a much less advanced ship overall, due to its designed mission role.
Now, if we make the reasonable assumption that Ransom's line about having "stumbled across a wormhole or two" was just a lie to explain away how he'd covered so much ground in so little time without giving away what they'd done, then this drive was basically increasing their speed by such a huge factor that continuing to do what they were doing was a guarantee of getting home. And their ship was so slow and ill equipped that not doing it was basically a death sentence for the entire crew.
As always, Voyager oversimplified a complex moral situation.
>>14007581
By mixing sources I screwed that up.
9.975 would equal about 13.5k by the source that gave me the warp 8 speed of about 1k.
By the source that gave me a warp 9 speed of about 3k, warp 8 would be about 6-700x.
So in other words, the gap is either bigger than I stated, or a LOT bigger than I stated. Either way, while the max speed difference is treated like a throwaway line, it's perhaps the most important and massive difference between the realistic choices available to Ransom vs those available to Janeway. Once again, a complex situation is dumbed down to "he didn't respect alien life enough, so he has lost his way and must be stopped at all cost" when it should have been "this captain faced an impossible choice where he's morally fucked if he does (and has to live the rest of his hopefully long life living with what he did), and completely fucked if he doesn't (he and his whole crew never see home again if they're extremely lucky, and probably end up dying within a year at most if they're not).
Star Trek Voyager: Wasted Potential - The Series.
>>14007616
>all dose phaser arrays for a scout ship
they learned well from the Defiant
>>14007759
It has what, 11? That's about bare minimum to provide a 360 degree field of fire on a ship like this. Not to mention that the actual firepower in TNG-era is dependent both on the length/size of the strip itself as well as its class.
Voyager has 13.
Enterprise-C has 15.
Enterprise-D has 11 (or 12, if you count the one hidden by the saucer except when separated).
Enterprise-E has 16
Prometheus has 18.
Nebula-class has only 5 that I can see, but also two massive main arrays and some huge blind spots in its field of fire.
It's also worth noting that given that the Equinox is a small ship, the array size isn't going to be all that big. And given that it's a planetary survey ship, they probably aren't going to be all that powerful either. Starfleet wouldn't design a ship to be totally defenseless - especially not after the Borg became known - but they wouldn't exactly go all-out on the firepower on such a ship either.
>>14007616
>>14007581
Just throwing something else into consideration. Ransom claimed by using the nucleogenic lifeform they traveled 10,000 light years in less than 2 weeks.I'd have to rewatch the episode but they had an exact number of how many more of the lifeforms they have to kill to have enough power to get home.
Now if you want to get into blatant plotholes, first off, how did the Aliens who gave the Equinox the tech to call the nucleogenic lifeforms would have a space expanding over 10,000 light years and how a random trader of that distance know of the Federation and what they did? That's a pretty impressive trading and communication network.
Also how could the Equinox's hull survive the strain of going that fast? We're not talking wear in tear, we're talking the ship tearing itself apart.
Does DS9 have the most comedy among the Star Trek TV series?
>>14009254
I don't know that's a tough call
>>14009254
Perhaps the concentrated episodes have the most, but overall the entire Dominion War kind of brings it down as a series.
>>14009281
Q and Picard were just a ton of fun to watch play off each other.
Q and Sisko...not so much.
Q and Janeway were a bit better, which is why they did more than one episode with him, but it was still pretty damn lame compared to him and Picard.
>>14009475
They didn't drop Q from DS9 because there were pairing problems. They dropped Q because they didn't want TNG invading their series.
>>14009475
Q got lamer and nicer as time went on. He went full trickster. When first introduced he's hostile as hell. Then it's revealed he's actually an outlier and going against Q rules. After that the danger of Q is reduced each time. They get cuddly.
The TNG series finale is the next time they make Q a bit more dangerous.
>>14009503
>Add O'Brien and Worf
>>14009647
O'Brien was a side character until DS9 that was planned from the very beginning because they wanted him. Q was pushed onto them for a episode. Worf was also pushed onto them, but ended up being great. They were afraid Worf would bring too much TNG in there at first, though.
I'm sad that we never got to see what infantry combat looks like in the 24th century.
Troops in power armor, personal shielding, jet packs.
>>14009715
>warp in
>phase shit
>???
>victoly!
>>14009725
one of the things i do like about JJ Trek. Is that phasers shoot bursts now instead of streams.
>>14009715
>>14009715
We see plenty of infantry combat in DS9 and it's nothing like that. Even during the war Starfleet is still Federation as fuck and can't really adapt to the needs of a sci-fi soldier on a sci-fi battlefield. Old and busted phaser rifles is all they get.
But you know, that's in character for them. If they suddenly started whipping out superweapons it wouldn't be Star Trek anymore. The Dominion war arc is all the more interesting because it shows a bunch of former pacifists trying to adapt to wartime.
>>14009715
>>14013583
What would they even do different besides personal force fields? Armor isn't going to save them.
>>14007202
Its spelled Qo'noS.
>>14013603
Oh, I'm sure they could bullshit up some armour that's resistant to Dominion weapons. Luckily they don't appear to have a vapourise setting.
>>14006748
It did give us that pretty amazing scene that one time where there's an unrelated scene going on and in the background Janeway is just rummaging around the entire ship looking for coffee and getting increasingly pissed about not finding any.
>>14013603
Every time i see that, I think "fuck that's brutal way for parallel Odo to die".
>>14013647
I seem to recall one of the books explored that maybe prime and mirror Odo switched places somehow and the prime universe got the mirror Odo and so on.
>>14013656
er... what?
It says that the good Odo got killed by Bashir and the bad Odo was in the prime universe being good?
>>14007216
>>14006512
Field promotions are a thing. When you are cut off the chain of command, the last living senior officers have the authority of promoting whoever they want however they need to get the job done. It's called a field promotion, and it's acted until they can contact official authority again and are outside of the danger zone, whereas a field promotion can be canceled or accepted by command.
Even without field promotions (which are exceptional things), I'm pretty sure Janeway has the authority of promoting anybody on her ship she sees fit. It goes with captaincy.
>>14009475
dem Marquess of Queensbury rules
Can someone explain how there are "black" vulkans like Tuvok when they have green blood? We only tan brown because we have red blood.
>>14016214
Because there is a different biological process that creates the conditions for them to have black skin. It's like how there are two completely unrelated genes to express blonde hair. Fucking duh. Get on my logic.
>>14006677
If the Borg didn't become ineffectual jokes in Voyager, it would be truly terrifying to see just how much of the galaxy they controlled compared to most other factions.
>>14014634
Is Sisko the most "take no shit" starring captain in any Trek series?
>>14016548
Kirk risked the Federation and Klingon Empire breakout out into all-out war because his son got killed.
>>14006677
Here's a question: if the Federation is the one drawing this map, why did they decide their territory was going to straddle the line between Alpha and Beta? Why not stick themselves center-ish of one or the other?
>>14016256
I think vulcans gave me my feitsh for uppity women that dont give two fucks about you.
>>14016214
Because its an actor and you should stop thinking so much.
>If you're wondering how he eats and breaths and other science facts,
>repeat to yourself its just a show and you should really just relax!
>>14016578
>>14009715
>all those situations where crew members teleport down and are immediately attacked or fight it out for a bit before teleporting back up just as they're about to get their asses kicked
>at no point does anyone on the Enterprise or any other vessel simply teleport the enemies into the brig / empty space
Honestly, the teleporter in general is a pretty underutilized technology in Trek. Think of the number of times someone's been trapped in a Jeffries tube that's about to explode, is getting their shit pushed in by some monster on deck #whatever, needs to run all the way to Engineering to do something critical, or has to rush to some chucklefuck who just got blown up by an EPS conduit to give them medical attention.
Teleport them out of the tube, teleport the monster into space, teleport to Engineering, and teleport a doctor to the wounded. Just teleport everyone and everything everywhere.
>>14016632
the only times you really see the teleporter used offensively. Is when some alien of the week uses it to capture people to be slaves.
given the technological feats shown. you could cloak into teleporter range of a ship. use the teleporter to change everyone on board the ship into a copies of a few select crewmen. the copies then operate the captured ship. using it to go on a clandestine mission. Where they don't need to survive. They are just copies after all.
>>14016632
>poop
He obviously pissed
>>14016632
>>14016641
There are common defenses against people teleporting to locations and also teleporting people out. Enemies with sufficient technological superiority DO use teleportation offensively all the time in Star Trek.
>>14016646
A man as smooth as Riker would never be inconvenienced by a need to urinate. He'd just piss himself and dare you to say something.
>>14016632
I'm pretty sure transporting from spot to spot without going through the transporter room first was hard to do for some reason (though not impossible as they'd done it before)
Likewise transporting non Starfleet guys is harder because they don't have the badges that give you an instant lock on their signal so they've got to manually work it out and it can be interrupted. Which is also why they usually have trouble transporting starfleet guys out when their badges are inevitably lost.
>>14016632
>every instance where Data doesn't exploit his incredible android strength to trivialize combat encounters, rubble-clearing, or "I don't believe you guys are an advanced race of people from the spacefuture or that I'm a holodeck creation"
>>14013625
Its like Russian. Both are correct in English.
>>14016632
Star Trek Insurrection had the bad guys using drones that shot darts. Which caused the tagged to be teleported to their holodeck prison ship.
To counter this the Enterprise people kept putting up signal jammers, along the walking path and shot the drones.
>>14016675
damn tv budgets and unimaginative writers.
Data shouldn't have needed a comms badge or a tricorder. He should have had those features built into him. He also should have been in constant wireless link to the Enterprise's computer network. When sitting at his station on the bridge or in engineering. He should have just used a direct cable link.
Not to mention he should have had super speed feats.
>>14016689
he did have most of that, I think
it was all held back by him wanting to be human
>>14010318
>the dead guys are in the back
Wew
>>14016681
Wasn't there some episode in which they beamed somebody from one deck to another, explaining all the while that short-range beaming was terribly dangerous? I think it was back in TOS.
>>14016713
Short range teleports in TNG, even without pads, are common enough and done for trivial reasons. You just never see it happen in those situations where it would be extremely useful.
There's so many problems of the week that need their more simplistic solutions to be ignored or bullshitted as unviable in order to get to the more "interesting" or complicated REVERSE THE TACHYON FLOW POLARITY.
>>14016726
I think you need to back up your wide-sweeping claims.
>>14016726
almost all medical problems could be solved by running people through the teleporter and restoring from a save point.
>>14016726
I'd like to see some evidence for this as well, and not of the "Well it's what I'd do, so clearly they do it" variety.
>>14016726
>>14016739
>>14016745
not exactly for trivial matters, but not particularly difficult
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Site-to-site_transport
>>14016745
Which conveniently doesn't affect memories.
>>14016762
they can just target the cells that aren't located in the brain
>>14016762
A Vulcan or Betazoid could fix that little problem.
Backing up someone's mind and then flashing the restored body with the up to date software.
>>14016764
That would have the effect of effectively performing a brain transplant between a pre-injury version and post-injury version of yourself. In extreme cases (Rascals), the skull might not even be the same size.
I'm not denying that it works, because it clearly does, and they clearly should do it whenever anyone gets a cold or a hangnail, but the fact that it works is almost as magical as transportation itself.
>>14016745
They don't have save points, and data for a person's body is huge as was shown in DS9.
>>14016786
>effect of effectively
I should proofread at least a little.
>>14016791
They could do it in TOS for four (or five?) crew-members, it seems rather silly that this limit is still in place by TNG/DS9-era. A damn space station should have enough computing power to run rings around a Constellation class.
>>14016791
good thing voyager retconned that by using the transporter a few times to save people medically
>>14016567
They have an idea of how large the Milky Way is and that they just happen to be right on the line. That map is all extended universe stuff anyway, at no point in the show is it ever implied that the Federation or the Klingon or Romulan Empires are anywhere but the Alpha Quadrent. You'd think the Klingons would give a toss about the Beta Quadrent, but they don't. Because as far the shows go that map is, dare I say, 'non canon'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHBAdShgYI
Suicide Box
>>14016808
how is this news to anyone
that's the entire concept of the transporter
>>14016806
>They have an idea of how large the Milky Way is and that they just happen to be right on the line.
Having an idea of the size of the Milky Way is easy. My point is that the line is completely arbitrary. If you're given a map of the Milky Way and told to draw two lines through it to divide it equally into quadrants, all possible lines are equally valid. What criteria could they be using that would put them on the line like that? "The end of the most distant spiral arms should be centered in quadrants"?
>>14016806
The response is then: So why didn't they just rotate the axes to put themselves in the middle of the Alpha quadrant?
In one of the TOS movies (I believe it was Wrath of Khan), Kirk responds to a distress call by saying something along the lines of "We're the only ship in the quadrant right now", and he says it while smack in the middle of Federation space. The official explanation of this was to draw a line right down the middle of Federation space and say that every other ship was at some war or other. And therefore we have that map.
>>14016567
Earth is on the dividing line.
>>14016632
There's also the chance that the transporter uses a lot of energy, and there's a policy to use it onboard only in emergency situations.
I seem to remember the Federation having "energy credits" for using transporters to travel on Earth.
>>14016912
> "We're the only ship in the quadrant right now",
'Quadrent' and 'sector' were used interchangably for a long time in Star Trek. I really hope they didn't come up with this bollocks map based on a throwaway line that used an undefined astrobabble term.
>>14017004
From what I've heard, that's exactly why they came up with that map. Later, they double-retconned it by saying that during the TOS era sector and quadrant were used interchangeably.
There are a lot of stupid things in Trek canon (I'm looking at you, definition of "Warp Factor") that 1) were thrown around at the whim of that week's writer in TOS, 2) were standardized to some degree in the TNG era, 3) were re-defined multiple times thereafter because the standardization overlooked something silly Kirk yelled one time, or because it was downright dumb.
>>14017037
>during the TOS era sector and quadrant were used interchangeably.
About half of TNG does the same. I don't thing 'quadrant' was standardised until it was planned to become a plot point in DS9.
While I could do without all the anti-semetic fan jokes, I don't mind the Ferengi being around because it helps remind the viewers that the Federation are SPACE COMMUNISTS
>>14017225
That certainly matches up. For those who are interested: early on, they seem to use "quadrant" either for sectors or "enlarge quadrant one-seven" commands. A couple times there are references to named quadrants like the "Morgana Quadrant" and "Ficus Quadrant". This abruptly stops after "Up the Long Ladder", and afterwards the alpha/beta/gamma/delta quadrants are referred to, starting with "The Price", which is really just the "HOW 'BOUT THAT DEEP SPACE NINE SHOW, HUH?" episode.
>>14017285
The federation has private industry, they aren't communists.
Kim was a whiny chink. Asians are beta fucks so no big loss. Why do people give a shit about him?
>>14006677
How much of a presence did the Dominion have in the Delta Quadrant? I know we saw some Jem Hadar amongst the Borg, but did the Founders go to war against the Krenim Imperium? Those temporal weapons would be a vital asset.
>>14017366
picard literally says in TNG they have no need for money and that they work for a greater human good
maybe not per-se communism but it sure ain't capitalism
>>14019330
And yet they show citizens with private business all the time. They obviously have a method for determining how you get resources since some people have things like spaceships or large pieces of land they live on, and they barter with non-human races all the time.
>>14019330
Dunno why you guys are thinking in economic terms when the concept of economy has been surpassed. No scarcity, no economy.
>>14019347
That's bullshit, though. The Federation obviously supplies people with a basic high standard of living, but there's still an economy within the Federation and with other societies.
>>14019330
Kirk confirms it too in Star Trek 4. Just watched it last week.
"And I guess you don't have any use for money in the 23rd century?"
"Well, we don't."
>>14006283
Harry Kim is a incompetent baboon
>>14019640
Which is promptly contradicted by other series.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Money
Feddies pn earth do seem to give everyone a decent standard of living pro bono, and let them join the federation, or live a civillian life as they please. They say all the time that they have no need for money since they all work to better mankind and other species, but Im pretty sure in DS9 when Siskos visiting his dads restaruaunt on earth that they mention people still using a form of currency there for things. Theres no way everything would be free in shops and restaraunts.
But then once you leave earth theres currency everywhere. Latinum being the main one since for whatever scifi reason it cant be copied with a replicator like many other things can be. They can replicate gold though, and it looks nice, so thats what they coat their fucking latinum with, since gold is basically free if you have access to a replicator.
>>14019683
Did you even read the entry?
>When Lily Sloane asked how much the USS Enterprise-E cost to build, Picard told her "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity."
Humanity stopped using money. I can only assume that the Federation had a way of compensating alien races that did business with it or its members though but it didn't go down individual people.
>>14019683
Actually the same series. Money was referenced and spent in TOS.
>>14019683
>>14019707
So basically, New World Economy happened sometime after Kirk's run?
No wait, that actually doesn't make sense.
>it started around the time the Federation was formed
Maybe all the money references in TOS are actually an in-joke among captains?
>>14019706
Did you?
>The exact nature of the Federation economy was difficult to describe; while money may not have entirely ceased to exist
>in 2267, Kirk said "Well, the Federation has spent a lot of money on our training..."
>On two occasions later that year, Kirk commented to a subordinate, "You just earned your pay for the week!"
>That same year, Cyrano Jones, after giving her one for free, told Lieutenant Nyota Uhura that "a tribble is the only love that money can buy."
>Shortly before his retirement in the 2290s, Montgomery Scott stated that he had "just bought a boat."
> Leonard McCoy responded to Chang's constant quotations of William Shakespeare during the battle of Khitomer that "I'd give real money if he'd shut up."
>While inside the Nexus, Kirk described an illusion to Picard: "It's my house... I sold it years ago," referring to his former home on Earth.
>However, wealth was not totally abandoned by all Federation citizens and an individual such as Carter Winston could acquire a vast personal fortune during the late 23rd century
>Bartender Quark had repeated financial interactions with Federation personnel. On numerous occasions, Starfleet officers gambled to win latinum at Quark's Bar
>His bar would also extend credit to its patrons, including Federation citizens and members of Starfleet.
> Later that year Benjamin Sisko threatened Quark to collect on five years "back rent" that was unpaid
>Quark later stated that he was in debt to some unnamed Humans, but considered defaulting on them a trivial matter
>Captain Kirk offered to reimburse the miners of Rigel XII for lithium crystals
>In 2285, Leonard McCoy wanted to pay a smuggler to transport him to the Genesis Planet.
>In 2364, Beverly Crusher bought a roll of cloth at Farpoint Station and had her account on the USS Enterprise-D billed.
>In 2366, Picard purchased a Horga'hn on Risa
>>14019706
The actual federation with all the ships and chains of command doesnt use money. All the people who sign up know they are doing so to help better mankind and the universe. They dont get paid.
But that doesnt stop people who work in the federation from getting currency when they get off time on earth, or visit space stations and shit where latinum is used for lots of shit.
In TNG Picard and the gang were always flying around working out trade deals and trying to settle negotiations and shit. Since the Feddies didnt run on currency they probably just traded raw goods back and forth with allies instead of money.
>>14019706
>>14019732
>As of the 24th century, the Bank of Bolias was a major financial institution, and Bolarus IX had a market economy that fluctuated in value.
>When Kathryn Janeway told Kes the story of Tuvok and the Vulcan master he acquired a meditation lamp from, she included the bit about how the price was doubled when he discovered they were with Starfleet.
>>14019732
>He took half of those examples from the 'Money as a figure of speech' section.
Really?
The only reasonable explanation is that Humans don't use money among themselves as it's post scarcity society, but still maintains an economy when dealing other races (Since it helps maintain legitimacy). The more reasonable one is different writers at different eras equals no consistency.
>>14006837
But you can develop shit characters into good ones. Jake and Nog both started out as two of the worst characters in the series, but they ended DS9 as memorable characters. Hell, one of (if not the) best episodes in the entire franchise is a Jake episode.
>>14019802
Even if you count some of those as figures of speech and others as being a part of some inter-species trade, it still leaves others (like the buying and selling of property on Earth) as examples of some form of economy on Earth.
It's the writers being unable to comprehend a society without an economy, since economy is one of the main pillars of a society.
>>14019344
Massive welfare states with high taxes like Sweden or Denmark.
Everyone gets shelter, food, medical, education, clothes. You want to do something beyond being a NEET posting on FedChan all day, you need to work.
The Federation is actually a Confederation. Since the individual planetary government member states still autonomy of domestic affairs and self defense forces.
Star Fleet is the military of the Earth Government and is the Federation's military. The other members of the Federation have their self defense/exploration/general purpose forces. Like the Vulcan Science Academy, which is the space force.
Federation government taxes the rich governments to provide for the poorer members.
>>14019802
Unlike the Soviet Union of 1962 the Federation can produce more than wheat and iron. Product trade probably maintains a healthy culture exchange and monetary inflow the federation keeps just in case. As long as the sun burns the federation could feed itself in total isolation. Getting money as a citizen is probably a fair process but a small pain in the ass. The humans of Genes future might just be so haughty taughty that they hate the idea of even having to deal with money.
>>14016500
why do I like this so much
>>14016551
I like how Dukat is pretty much Cardassia's Kirk
If DS9 wasn't changed at all, but still released today? I imagine over half of 4chan would flip their fucking shit over it.
>>14019732
>>14019802
> Not mentioning the scene when Riker walks into an alien dive bar trying to get information, guy implies he wants to be paid for the info, and Riker's somewhat flustered because Federation doesn't use money
>>14023327
it gets an automatic pass because of all the "Being O'brien is Suffering" episodes
>>14023384
>Miles O'brien is a veteran of hundreds of space battles
>Experiences a 20-year prison sentence in minutes
>Lost his daughter to a wormhole
>Discovers daughter as a feral teenager hours later
>Releases feral daughter back to wormhole, gets his daughter back by pure luck
>Daughter barely knows he exists
>Berrated by his wife
>Wife is possessed by evil lifeform, slight improvement
>Patronized by his best friend
>Always aware his wins at the bar are hollow pittances
>Third wheel in a love triangle
>Concludes he shouldn't act on infidelity, still goes in for the kiss
>Sucks at being a klingon
>Mirror-universe O'Brien gets even more shit
>Mirror O'Brien nicknamed "Smiley"
>One bad laugh away from being known as "Smelly"
>Kidnapped, cloned
>Clone dies full of mortal dread, only to realize he is a clone
>Kirk personaly yelled at him
>Nearly got condemned to death by the impartial and fair Cardassian justice for no reason
>Stuck on a ruined planet, wounded for an accident he didn't commit while giving instructions to the least tech-savvy member of the DS9 crew
>Stuck retrofitting a boobytrapped filled asylum
>Entire repair and maintenence crew of DS9 is full of maquis traitors, infiltrated Circle terrorists, butthurt Bajorans and Starfleet rejects
>Wife loses her job because of butthurt religious nuts from Bajor
>Occasionally fills in for his wife despite having no teaching experience
>Stuck upside down in a jefferies tube for two days and no one cared because the Ferengi sideplot got too good
>"I'll need two days of full shifts." "You have 8 hours."
>Killed hundreds
>>14020308
I've always thought there's a big gap between Star Fleet and Federation. Star Fleet being what it sounds like, while the Federation has turned into government for many. Federation acting as overwatch for smaller special interest colonies. There had been plenty of lost colonies, low tech colonies by choice or fate, while others seem to use the same tech we see on modern ships. Most of their commerce from the high end seems to be well, tax of sorts?
>>14023496
>>Experiences a 20-year prison sentence in minutes
>straight up murders a dude for some bread, guards bring meal the morning after
>>14019705
You are given credits, which sound more like coupons or so in use. You can use these credits to get better things, but the basics are taken care of.
Running a restaurant or producing toys gets you credits to get cooler stuff for yourself.
Please note that boredom factors into this. Even NEETs here on 4chan get tired of arguing with the same people. People here on /m/ and /tg/ tend to do other things that benefit others, even if they say their main activity is things from those boards.
>>14023496
And yet, somehow, that man made it out the other side of all of that.
I can think of few people I would rather have at my side than Miles O'brien, because the man can weave miracles out of thin air and there is nothing you can throw at him that would be worse than everything he has already been through.
>>14016689
I mean, the comms badge is still a badge that indicates you are a member of Starfleet. Just because he might not need the technology doesn't need he wouldn't want to wear it.
Also, I don't believe Data is able to natively scan items using emissions from his body, which is something the tricorder does.
>>14023743
The miracle business is more Laforge's and Scotty's bag. O'Brien gets through by keeping his hand on the wheel, mostly. Or when he is involved in a slip up he doesn't freak out, as if it will all be better within 45 minutes.
>>14023752
>Miles O'Brien, Federation Lion
>>14023496
Oh shit son my old /tv/ pasta
>>14023803
Hero of Setlik III
Hero to the People
>>14016909
Maybe another race mapped out borders of the Quadrants and the Federation just used their designations of the quadrants?
It could be a left over from the First Federation or the Iconians.
>>14024097
Seems like Trek quadrants are based off our current model, which we based on our system's position compared to the center. They just moved the center from our system to the galactic center and kept the same orientation across the 0/180 degree axis.
>>14024135
>>14024097
Well, the STO map has Vulcan and Sol so close to the separation of the Alpha/Beta quadrans, i assume is something like "Greenwich" timezones
>>14024157
All the maps seem to share Sol in galactic south along the North (0 degree) South (180) border. Seems Trek shifts East (toward 90) to place Sol in Alpha (when by usual logic we'd be labeled Delta but whatever we're Number One!)
>>14019732
>Shortly before his retirement in the 2290s, Montgomery Scott stated that he had "just bought a boat."
Man, that was a horrible investment seeing as he got stuck in a transporter pattern buffer for about a century afterward.
