Five Star Stories
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
Trying to read this manga right now and I've only gotten through half the first volume.
Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of fun, a lot more than I thought it would be. And nowhere nearly as confusing or hard to follow as what I've heard.
But I can't get over how inconsistent the art style is. The mecha always look amazing, but the backgrounds are so flat and uninspired, and the characters look REALLY awkwardly proportioned and badly drawn. If I didn't know any better, I would say that there are two different artists working on this manga.
Another huge complaint I have is with the panel layout. It's so static and disorganized. Even compared to other 80's manga like GiTS. Battle scenes don't stand out well at all.
Does the art get better in later volumes? Is it worth reading the rest of this?
Continue reading. FSS' problems all stem from The fact that while Nagano is a genius, he also need someone to get his shit together. He's got all these great ideas, but he's kinda terrible at organising them.Also it gets really hard to tell characters apart at times.
>>13982175
Nagano is not a manga artist in the slightest. And no, those fundamental flaws never really improve from what I've seen.
>>13982410
This. If he had a co-author to bounce his ideas off of, that'd be acceptable. But since he's a recluse, no one even knows if he'll finish the manga at all, let alone do it coherently.
FSS is stylized after French sci-fi comics with a touch of shoujo, but the French styling is the more prominent of the two. That is why it looks static. It's a stylistic choice.
And at the very least, it trumps the layout in Nausicaa, which is another manga heavily based on French comics.
>>13982926
Anon, there are people on the net who have spent their youth reading french scifi comics and it's fairly obvious that you have not read all that many, if any at all.
>>13982926
> FSS is stylized after French sci-fi comics with a touch of shoujo, but the French styling is the more prominent of the two. That is why it looks static. It's a stylistic choice.
Putting aside the request for a source on that, being a stylistic choice doesn't make it any better in any way since it's still static and quite dull regardless of why.
>>13982940
>>13982941
Read Heavy Metal. Nagano even named L-Gain after it, so I don't know how much more obvious it could get.
>>13982954
Whoops, meant to say Metal Hurlant.
>>13982978
They are the same thing aren't they?
>>13982990
No, Heavy Metal is the American version. They started out the same though.
You will see a lot of similarities between Nagano's style and that of people who drew in it like Moebius and Druillet.
>>13982954
Er, Heavy Metal L-Gaim was Tomino.
>>13983099
No, it was mostly Nagano's ideas filtered through Tomino, Same with SDF Macross, and how Kawamori's ideas were filtered through Ishiguro.
Nagano also named most of the characters and mecha, so it's not a stretch that he would also name part of the series' title.
>>13982175
Sounds to me like you're the typical /m/ faggot who thinks "muh realism" and "muh greebles" is the key to "good art" and suck Otomo and Murata's cock nonstop.
>>13983159
Otomo and Murata are both better artists than Nagano, that's for sure.
Other than some of his mecha Nagano can't draw shit.
>>13983180
>Other than some of his mecha Nagano can't draw shit.
Thanks for proving my point you dumb fuck.
>>13983195
Other than the mecha, that doesn't look good at all. That character looks disgusting.
How does that disprove my point?
>>13983209
Also, from the other replies in this thread I doubt I'm the only person who thinks Nagano is an awful artist.
>>13983209
>That character looks disgusting.
>I don't like it if it doesn't actually look like a real person!
I'm not going to even bother arguing with you at this point, because everything you've said has only further validated >>13983159
Fuck off.
>>13983234
>I'm not going to even bother arguing with you at this point
Yeah, no point in defending a terrible artist when you don't have anything to back him up with.
>>13983234
It's also telling when only you and some other guy are the only people in this thread who think Nagano can draw anything other than robots.
>>13983260
That's some top-tier projecting right there.
>>13983260
I think Nagano is not a good manga artist, but as someone who draws and designs he's brilliant. And even I have to acknowledge that it was probably somewhat deliberate on his part to draw his manga that way.
Being a manga artist and a picture drawer are two very different things. If you deny Nagano's skills as an artist you are simply ignorant.
>>13983180
>Otomo and Murata are both better artists than Nagano, that's for sure.
You're wrong. Being an artist isn't about who can draw something more detailed or realistically, but to draw something in a way that looks distinct enough to be your own and recognizable to others as your own style.
Nagano is one of the best artists in the entire anime industry because of how distinct and recognizable his style is. You will never be able to confuse his style for that of anyone else's.
Murata can draw well, but he's not a good artist because his art style is not very distinct at all. Art is about expressing yourself as an individual; if it doesn't do that you're better off being an animator or photographer.
>>13983420
To add to that, Nagano's way of drawing EVERYTHING is distinct. Even if you don't like his style, you can instantly tell if he designed certain characters, mecha, vehicles, weapons, backgrounds, etc. Very few people are capable of drawing such a wide range of things in their own style. Other mecha designers like Katoki and Izubuchi have distinct mecha designs, but anything other than that?
Also, I fucking love Nagano's new character designs.
>>13983420
I would disagree.
Technical prowress is just as important to art and the artist as personal style. I'd say that personal style really just amounts to the end game studies of an artist (which never end). The streamlining of all they've learned to that point. Though a lot of people simply skip the fundamentals and basics and move straight to the stylization process, which does them absolutely no favors seeing as they have either no skill set or a poor skillset to build from. I'd like to compare Yumekui Merry and Akame ga Kill for that argument. Both utilize the more basic anime art style; however, when looking through the work, Yumekui Merry's utilization of gesture, paneling, and action stands as a testament to the artist's skill, while also being able to make the more generic anime style into something recognizable as his own. But to get to that recognizable level, the artist had to go through the entirety of learning the basics and then some, with the high-level technique of the artist really shining through and working along side the art style, as opposed to working under or over the technique.
Building off of that, if you are working on a comic, it doesn't really matter if you are good at drawing things in a basic model sheet fashion if you are terrible with your composition, paneling, drawing with a three-dimensional space in mind, and so-on. The style developed would only be as strong as the level of technique it was designed around, and when the technical prowress is of a lower quality, the style can't hope to pull its own weight in the slightest.
>>13983492
Katoki's actually pretty good with humans and some fashionable, yet still Earthly, uniforms. As far as its use in the industry, it is still an untapped well.
>>13983420
It feels good to know that ONE, whose art style I will never mistake is one of the greatest artists around.
>>13983420
>Art is about expressing yourself as an individual; if it doesn't do that you're better off being an animator or photographer.
Photography and animation are both forms of art, anon.
>>13983790
>hating one ONE
He's more of an artist than any of the guys working on your flavor-of-the-month copypasta moeshit garbage.
>>13983825
That's a whole lot of buzzwords there, anon.
Nagano can't draw for shit.
>>13983837
He can. It's just that his skill set doesn't mix well with comics.
>>13983749
>Building off of that, if you are working on a comic, it doesn't really matter if you are good at drawing things in a basic model sheet fashion if you are terrible with your composition, paneling, drawing with a three-dimensional space in mind, and so-on. The style developed would only be as strong as the level of technique it was designed around, and when the technical prowress is of a lower quality, the style can't hope to pull its own weight in the slightest.
Nailed it. That's exactly why I think Nagano is such a terrible artist.
>>13983838
>He can.
Sure thing. All the art posted here so far in this thread isn't helping your case.
>>13983844
I am 100% certain at this point that you are either shitposting or just going full contrarian just for the hell of it.
>>13983825
I'm not hating on him though. He's great in several ways, especially at creating distinct designs and laying out good action. He's not good technically though, presumably because it's not a priority, and I think that counts.
>>13983847
It's not even the same guy, broski. But I basically would have said we he did anyway. Look at this absolute crap >>13983492
Yuck. Just the distance from his check to the shoulders is puke inducing, not to mention the "style"
>>13983844
I mean, I really enjoy pieces like this >>13983195
It might be better served without the Fatima in the image, but it's well done, none the less. I believe that, and the others like it, were the volume covers for FSS, right.
>>13983849
I'm fairly certain ONE is just hiding his powerlevel.
>>13983852
>I don't like the art style so it's garbage
Great argument.
>>13983864
>I like his art style so it's good
Great argument. Also you missed the part where Nagano can't proper proportions and perspective.
>>13983869
Nagano kinda can. Not saying that he's the best with normal humans, but he can. There's some shots in the manga of soldiers in standard fatigues that illustrate this.
But most of Five Star Stories uses the doll-like Fatima and other less/more than human characters that don't need to utilize the proper human anatomy.
On that same hand, Nagano pretty much utilizes the popular proportions exercised in fashion design, with some obvious discrepancies here and there.
>>13983869
>proper proportions
If we're going by that standard 99% of everyone working in anime would be a shit artist in your eyes. Anime designs are all about exaggeration.
>perspective
That character picture looks perfectly fine in how it's drawn, even if you don't like the proportions. I have no idea what you're complaining about.
>>13983894
Exaggeration isn't a lack of being able to proportion things. Holy shit are you daft son
>>13983861
The trees and the monster there are really good, but the people aren't. And even the monster has no rules as such, it's just a big bag of whatever he wants (muscles and teeth) with no discernible structure.
>>13983869
Thanks for confirming that you're a total fucking idiot.
>>13983903
>Exaggeration isn't a lack of being able to proportion things.
So you're okay with certain parts being proportioned differently than others, except the parts you don't like? Way to not have a double standard.
>>13983907
>immediately posts an image where a sword's perspective is totally fucked
"style"
>>13983919
There's a difference between deliberately exaggerating things and just not being able to draw at certain level. Any time someone points out Nagano's obvious artistic flaws, you just use exaggeration and style as a scapegoat. Pathetic m80
>>13983921
>sword's perspective is totally fucked
Okay buddy, whatever gets you through your Murata lens.
>>13983928
The perspective actually is a bit distorted for the sword. I never noticed it until he said something.
But it's really a minor fault, and I don't think that hiccup makes it any less stronger of a piece than what it already is. I mean, Michelangelo's David has one hand bigger than the other, but it's still a piece with world-wide acclaim.
>>13983923
>Nagano's obvious artistic flaws
If you seriously think not drawing people with "proper proportions" is an artistic flaw, you are absolutely beyond retarded. And outside the scope of Oshii anime and a select few others, absolutely nothing follows that standard.
It's fine if you don't enjoy how Nagano draws people, but to say that the guy who drew the Mortar Headds nor understanding anything about perspective and proportions makes you look like an unbelievable fucktard.
>>13983928
Wow, thanks for proving your have no eye for these things. Not only does the sword twist as it continues to its point, but also bends away from the handles gradually. It's a total fail of perspective.
>>13983956
It's depressing that you have to remark on something as minor and unnoticeable as the sword tip and not the actual person being drawn just in order to prove your point, when your entire point was that Nagano can't draw people.
If you want to argue that Nagano can't draw non-human objects either, feel free to do so too. I'm sure I'll get some more laughs out of your sophisticated critique.
>>13983943
>If you seriously think not drawing people with "proper proportions" is an artistic flaw, you are absolutely beyond retarded.
Not him, but I actually think trying to draw people as realistically as possible, especially for a manga, is a really bad idea. Because the more realistic a character design, the more easily the flaws become noticeable. So unless you can draw with the ability to match a photograph, all of art is bound to have something really uncanny valley at many points.
I don't like Nagano's character designs either, but I can see -why- he would deliberately draw them that way. I think part of the reason his characters are so simple is because he'd rather hurry them up and take his time drawing the super elaborate mecha in his manga. Like any manga artist he has deadlines to follow, believe it or not.
>>13983972
Maybe Nagano can just draw robots well, but not people?
>>13984021
That may be true for some mecha designs like the Dougram stuff, but for something like Mortar Headd, which essentially revolves around the human anatomy, that would make absolutely no sense.
It's a stylistic choice. There's nothing more to it other than that.
Also, there's a reason mecha are mostly CGI nowadays and human characters are still mostly hand-drawn. Guess which one is harder to draw.
>>13984032
Nagano can draw realistic people but it's boring and tedious so why bother? Nobody cares about impressing /ic/ types unless you're insecure.
Nagano is an exceptional artist and his work shows for it. I hate to say this but the nitpickers in this thread are probably just jealous that their art looks like shit in comparison.
>>13984005
> uncanny valley
I think his characters look like they belong there personally. Don't know whether it's skill, style, time or what - but they're right in that spot regardless.
>>13984032
People are expected to morph and change and get deformed and weird, robots aren't. Robots in CGI look weird, but acceptable, people don't (as Sidonia proved). There's a reason, but it's not the one you're suggesting.
>>13984063
>People are expected to morph and change and get deformed and weird, robots aren't.
Not with Nagano's mecha, but other mecha designs they are perfectly a-okay with that. Just look at Obari's entire folder of works; they're all about exaggerated proportions for the sake of more dynamic-looking animation, and they are -packed- with details.
>>13984032
>but for something like Mortar Headd, which essentially revolves around the human anatomy, that would make absolutely no sense.
Except Mortar Headds don't have human proportions.
>>13984061
>Nagano can draw realistic people
Prove it.
All of Nagano's people, background and objects that aren't mecha look like a crock of shit.
>>13984072
But it's quite clear that Obari has a mastery of proportion and perspective even when he exaggerates. Nagano just has a poor grasp on those subjects.
>>13984085
>Except Mortar Headds don't have human proportions.
>Proceeds to jerk off Obari despite the same thing applying to his designs
You're not making the Obari fans look good here, anon.
>>13984085
>Prove it.
It's called re-reading the thread.
Is this the part where you go full Valvrager and just deny everything without coming up with any sort of legible argument?
>>13984094
So you have no proof? Nice to know.
>>13984085
>But it's quite clear that Obari has a mastery of proportion and perspective even when he exaggerates.
I love Obari but please stop while you're ahead.
>>13984102
Aside from the horrible faces, all of that is completely proportional.
>>13984100
Here's your proof, I made it so you can understand it as easily as possible.
>>13984105
>rocket tits
>proportional
hahahahaha
>>13984102
>>13984105
Why does Obari draw Mai Shiranui, Terry Bogard and Karin Son in every anime under his style?
Obari's faces legit scare me.
>>13984105
>steroids-tier muscular
>massive shoulders on the guys with itty-bitty hips
>legs that stretch forever
>cone tits
>THOSE FUCKING FACES
This is like the other spectrum of awful.
>>13984111
You can tell who was born after 1990
>>13984134
>steroids-tier muscular
You mean musculature? The guy's like a greek god, but it's legit even if a bit stylized.
>massive shoulders on the guys with itty-bitty hips
Those are shoulder pads.
>legs that stretch forever
Hahaha oh wow you really suck at this
>THOSE FUCKING FACES
They are ugly, everyone knows that. But that was never the point. You are just mad.
>>13984172
>You can tell who was born after 1990
Did tits magically mutate after 1990?
>>13984061
>Nagano can draw realistic people but it's boring and tedious so why bother? Nobody cares about impressing /ic/ types unless you're insecure.
Well Kazuo Koike's Crying Freeman debunks your statement. Being able to draw realistic characters even in manga is wonderful. But of course you need to have the right talent to do it. And most manga artists can't draw realistic characters even if their life depended on it. That's the reality. Most manga artists just hide behind the poor excuse of "it's stylised" so it doesn't need to be realistic. Fuck that, there is no glory in drawing like a fucking 5 year old.
>Faggots on /a/ think Miura is a bad artist
>Faggots on /m/ think Nagano is a bad artist
I want all of /ic/'s crossboarding monkeys to burn in hell.
>>13984209
It's a man, baby!
>>13984215
>>Faggots on /a/ think Miura is a bad artist
Are you fucking shitting me?
>>13983492
Izubuchi does tons of design work outside of mecha. He did the uniforms for Patlabor, Gundam Wing and the Rider designs for Kamen Rider: The Next.
>>13984236
Izubuchi used to be so great, and then he sold his design skills just so he could become a mediocre director. What a crying shame.
>>13984215
>>13984224
I saw a guy once who described Miura as a great draftsmen and a solid writer but a terrible comic artist. He can draw beautiful stuff, but his paneling and sense of storytelling is lacking and carried by his eye for detail and time consuming perfectionism, hence the long hiatuses. A talented doujin artist who never quite went professional was his assessment. I personally think Miura's one of the all time greats but that view certainly wasn't without merit. A better storyteller would probably have prioritized pacing over lots and lots of detail.
>>13984273
Miura's art isn't even up to snuff if you want to get into great manga art. Most of Miura's pages are filled with digital blurring and digital speedlines on relatively simply character drawings and traced photo backgrounds.
>>13982410
>>13982531
I think part of the charm of FSS is the fact that stories go spontaneously. It really helps to establish strong worldbuilding and makes the whole story come "alive" and always feel like it's rooted in the present. It's also completely unpredictable as a result, even with the pre-established timeline.
The problem with that approach is that characterization is too minimal, especially given how many characters there are, and a lot of tension is lost mid-way through some important arcs. Not to mention that a lot the side-stories come across as being just a "taste" of something even more grand, like a steak being dangled in our faces.
It's a fun read, but there is no way in hell something of this magnitude will ever truly be finished with anything other than Nagano dying.
>>13982926
>And at the very least, it trumps the layout in Nausicaa, which is another manga heavily based on French comics.
I love Nausicaa, but dear god it was such a chore to read. The layout is a mess with just how many panels there are crammed on one page,the art is too busy for its own good (the character designs are too simple and get lost in the backgrounds), there are endless textboxes that cover everything up, and most of the manga consists of just talking heads. It feels really claustrophobic. For an animation director, I expected better from Miyazaki.
As a story, it's top notch, but you could tell Miyazaki didn't put much time into editing the art.
>>13984336
People somehow think that anime is inherently superior to manga, but they're honestly just different mediums. These anime guys basically just suck at manga because it's a different skill set and visual style.
>>13984336
Once again, like FSS, Nausicaa is written in the tradition of older French comics. That is, lots of subtle detail in the backgrounds and mechanics, simplistic character designs, and somewhat basic and non-dynamic layout. It makes the pacing feel more relaxed and tonally less abrupt, but it's also very immersive in its worldbuilding. It's not everyone's cup of tea though, which is why they're treated more like textbooks than your typical weekly manga.
Another to keep in mind is that Miyazaki hates animation "shortcuts", so things like dynamic poses and warped limbs go way against his philosophy, which is drawing every motion as realistically and plainly as possible. But knowing how to use those "shortcuts" result in very slick and dynamic manga, which is how we get stuff like OPM.
>>13984336
>For an animation director, I expected better from Miyazaki.
Miyazaki isn't too fond of manga because he always felt like he was overshadowed by Tezuka, which is true because Tezuka's layouts and comic motion was godly. That's a big reason why Miyazaki decided to pursue animation instead.
>>13984405
>That's a big reason why Miyazaki decided to pursue animation instead.
Which is funny considering how Tezuka in his prime started approaching manga with the same cinematic approach he took to storyboarding actual animation.
>>13984336
This is simply a different art-style, Miyazaki admit that he was influenced by Moebius art-style.
>>13984386
>Nausicaa is written in the tradition of older French comics
No it isn't, you're completely delusional.
>>13984594
That's because Tezuka actually understand cinematography. A good cinematographer can make good manga layouts. Miyazaki can't do either at such a level.
>>13984711
It's not merely the art style. Have you ever even read comics like the Incal and paid attention to how they were formatted? You have to be blind to not see the similarities.
>>13984912
If you're the faggot who thinks Nagano is a bad artist, you have no right to call anyone delusional but yourself.
>Nausicaa is written in the tradition of older French comics
Now THAT'S pretentious.
>>13985007
>dumb weebs not understanding the influence of French and Italian comic artists on various manga artists from the 70's onward
I expected nothing less from these fucking millennials. I'll bet most people here haven't even heard of Moebius.
>>13985407
Your entire argument is based on the flawed thinking that those styles of text heavy, brain dead segmented paneling is unique or created by French comics. That's simply stupid because it is, in fact, one of the earliest and most common forms of comic layouts.
Blow your brains out, they're taking up space.
>>13985407
>I'll bet most people here haven't even heard of Moebius.
Most of them don't know any western designer other than Syd Mead, and that's only because of Turn A. And I doubt they know anything about his works outside of it either like Blade Runner and Tron, despite how iconic it is.
No surprise since the majority of /m/ are idiots comprised of SDGO and SRWfags.
>>13985407
>>13985431
Fellating yourself in public is embarrassing.
>>13985421
>Your entire argument is based on the flawed thinking that those styles of text heavy, brain dead segmented paneling is unique or created by French comics.
But that's not at all what I said you dumb cunt. >>13984386
>subtle detail in the backgrounds and mechanics, simplistic character designs, and somewhat basic and non-dynamic layout.
Also, the fact that you can't tell the difference between something done by an 80's European artist and fucking 40's Marvel shows just how completely blind of a weeb you are.
>Blow your brains out, they're taking up space.
It makes me kind of happy that you're angry enough at me to fantasize about this. Though I guess it's the only way for you project your insecurities in a healthy manner.
>>13985438
Nah, you're just a moron. And more than one person sees that, what a shocker!
>>13985456
Cool shoop bro.
>>13985462
>"th...there's no way there's someone else thinks I'm a retard!"
>>13985462
Man you are delusional.
>>13985007
Miyazaki cited Moebius as one of his key influences on Nausicaa and even had a live interview with him telling him how the many people in the manga industry were indebted to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L0YgdIpXas
Don't be a contrarian just for the hell of it.
>>13985421
>relatively detailed character design
>mostly blank backgrounds and next to no heavy detail
>fairly uncluttered for the most part
I get that you just pasted the first result you got from a google search for "comic book scans", but at least try to read and process what others are saying before you hit the post button.
>>13985487
He only ever mentioned designs, and he even said that it didn't really alter his style because he was already established. There is absolutely nothing to back up your claim that the paneling layouts are done in the tradition of french comics, which isn't even a trait exclusive to french comics but something commonly found in all other comics anyway. You're nuts.
no the art will stay like that for all 12 volumes, there might be some improvements but you can clearly see this is all done by Nagano himself. The characters does change appearance/hairstyle/cloths over time. His characters are all like that, it's a hit or miss for most ppl but you get used to it if you stick long enough.
>>13984209
>Fuck that, there is no glory in drawing like a fucking 5 year old.
So you would rather trace over photographs like a fucking 5 year old?
>>13985559
>He only ever mentioned designs
Wrong, he said "it had a big impact" on both him and other mangaka. Note he says "mangaka" and not "designers" or "artists". He also said that he couldn't use it as EFFECTIVELY as he would have otherwise done because he already had a prior style, but that does mean that he tried to "use" it.
>paneling layouts are done in the tradition of french comics
I mentioned much more than just "paneling layouts", so let me copy-paste for the second fucking time since you're too dumb to read.
>subtle detail in the backgrounds and mechanics, simplistic character designs, and somewhat basic and non-dynamic layout.
This is why your shitty Marvel comics example was a terrible counterexample. Because it contained none of this other than the basic layout.
>>13985600
>Wrong, he said "it had a big impact" on both him and other mangaka. Note he says "mangaka" and not "designers" or "artists".
Oh, looks like that part wasn't in the video. It was in the full transcript though,
http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/miyazaki_moebious.html
>>13985600
>>13985604
>he said "it had a big impact" on both him and other mangaka
Which is just Miyazaki saying things. It doesn't really make it true. Where are all these mangaka saying they were impacted by it?
Miyazaki never once says that he made
>subtle detail in the backgrounds and mechanics, simplistic character designs, and somewhat basic and non-dynamic layout.
in the likeness of Moebius. He never says anything close to that. All he does is praise Moebius' work and says that although it gave him a new way to look at the world (the designs) it didn't affect his style much. You've got the fanboy equivalent of yuri goggles.
>>13985431
>Obari #3
What the hell? He's not even a mecha designer.
>>13985669
>Where are all these mangaka saying they were impacted by it?
I could give you dozens of pages of that, but I'll just use someone you've probably heard of before. Since I'm sure you've been living under a rock for a while now.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-04-09/akira-katsuhiro-otomo-remembers-french-artist-moebius
>He never says anything close to that.
He never said anything about the design either. He was referring to EVERYTHING about the comic. All I did was describe the traits of the comic. Your counterargument once again holds no water, since you apparently think Moebius's art is the equivalent of 40's Marvel comics. Say this at any kind of sci-fi convention and you will be laughed out like the dumbass you are. Go educate yourself already, and this time with something that isn't just Obari wanking.
>>13985670
Exactly why anyone who voted for him is a dumbass SRWfag.
>>13985689
>http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-04-09/akira-katsuhiro-otomo-remembers-french-artist-moebius
Literally never says he was influenced by him.
>Your counterargument once again holds no water, since you apparently think Moebius's art is the equivalent of 40's Marvel comics.
That never happened.
Your ship is sinking lad
>>13985702
>Literally never says he was influenced by him.
>Otomo concludes by urging his audience to read the artist's work, and notes that he was happy to be able to live in the same age as Moebius and to take so much from him.
>That never happened.
>>13985421
>Your ship is sinking lad
Your ship sunk a long time ago anon >>13985438, all I'm doing now is just sinking the lifeboats.
>>13985724
Thanks for proving that you're retarded and cannot read because that post never once mentioned anything but paneling and text.bon voyage motherfucker
>>13985735
First of all, I love how you totally couldn't provide a counterexample to my Otomo "proof". Hell, the same could be said for almost every point of this argument so far.
>never once mentioned anything but paneling and text.
Here's what you said:
>YOUR entire argument is based on the flawed thinking that those styles of text heavy, brain dead segmented paneling is unique or created by French comics.
Here's what I said about French comics:
>That is, lots of subtle detail in the backgrounds and mechanics, simplistic character designs, and somewhat basic and non-dynamic layout.
Basically, you were summarizing what I said but fucked it up horribly.
Your example was dogshit. Your line of reasoning is dogshit. Your persecution complex is dogshit. And now there you are, with nothing left to argue about because now you're eating your own dogshit, so you resort to /b/-tier deflections and google images.
>>13985747
>you totally couldn't provide a counterexample
>you need to post a counterexample to my claim
That's a blatant logical fallacy. You have insufficient evidence for your claims.
>Basically, you were
So now you're telling me what I was doing and what I meant to support your argument despite it being completely contrary to what was posted? Now that's real insanity. You mad.
>>13985758
>You have insufficient evidence for your claims.
That's not a claim, that was a direct sentence from the article itself. But go ahead, make more excuses. Try doing it for every other failed argument you made in this thread too.
>what I meant to support
And I'd been telling you the entire time that what you were "supporting" is not indicative of French comics, but you never argued otherwise now did you?
Your argument now rests only on a loop of logical fallacies and weak shitposting bordering on ad hominem. You have nothing left to argue for.
>>13985772
>what I meant to support
Are you serious? Are you seriously this bad at English that you read
>So now you're telling me what I was doing and what I meant
>to support your argument despite it being completely contrary to what was posted?
as
>what I meant to support
Seriously
>>13985778
Let's reword it then so your tiny brain gets it.
Once again here is what you said:
>Your entire argument is based on the flawed thinking that those styles of text heavy, brain dead segmented paneling is unique or created by French comics.
Now if we cut it out, here is how you referred to what I said:
>Your entire argument
>text heavy, brain dead segmented paneling
Here's "my entire argument"
>subtle detail in the backgrounds and mechanics, simplistic character designs, and somewhat basic and non-dynamic layout.
Your interpretation of my "entire argument" consists of only one out of three aspects that I listed. That's 33.3%. That's a fucking F.
You are a failure.
If the best you can do is try to defend your awful run-on sentence, then there's really nothing left. It's over, Jim.
>>13985803
Actually, saying
>Your entire argument is based on the flawed thinking that
does not have to encompass everything about your argument, but just at least one fundamental aspect of it. Yous be illiterate boi
>>13985807
And where did I claim that static panels were unique only to European comics?
No, I list three specific traits that appear in European comics. If you describe a car and talk about it's wheels, chasis, and cover as the three essential parts, you can't just take the wheels and simply call that a "car". That is what you are doing.
>Yous be illiterate boi
Oh the irony. But at this point, bad English arguments are all you have left. How sad. How disappointing. How typical of a moron.
Nagano is a hack. We know this. Time just gives us more evidence. He basically stole ideas from other writers and artists wholesale on L-Gaim to create Five Star Stories for a start, because he was unsatisfied with what he was allowed do with L-Gaim. He insulted Syd Mead because he doesn't like the aesthetics of Syd's Turn-A. He made a statement that LED Mirage, one of the units in Five Star Stories is the strongest mech ever - that it can't be hurt by anything in any universe, and that it's guns can destroy anything, ever - despite never appearing to be that strong on paper - because he doesn't like the idea of his stuff losing to other stuff like an 8 year old child. No-one wants to help him with Gothicmade by all accounts because he's such an asshole.
I like the look of some of the Mortarr Heads he's done, but many appear too spindly for their own good. The Nahatgall's head is pretty cool, but the unit itself looks pointlessly obese and ugly. He's not that great a designer really, and I'm just starting to pity him at this stage. Gothicmade only further proved this.
>>13985871
Nice pasta.
>>13985878
Doesn't matter, it's still 100% correct.
>>13984172
>But that was never the point. You are just mad.
Why would I be mad that Obari's characters look like the absolute worst traits of 90's anime with extra steroids thrown in?
That was a fun thread to read, shame I missed the arguments about what makes a good artist.
What SHOULD mentioned though, is that /m/en really, really should read more about the history of comics in Japan, holy fucking shit.
>>13988877
>That was a fun thread to read, shame I missed the arguments about what makes a good artist.
There's nothing stopping you from bringing in your own opinions.
>>13988877
>he's trying so hard
You're not fooling anyone. Plus there is a poster counter, you know.
>>13985669
No body was ever influenced by Moebius.
>>13989731
Ever.
>>13983134
Nagano confirmed himself that it wasn't him. In fact, the reason why he made FSS is because he wanted L-Gaim that bad. He was just the char/mecha designer. He wasn't the creator.
>>13989959
>Nagano confirmed himself that it wasn't him.
Bullshit.
>He was just the char/mecha designer.
You know nothing other than what ANN tells you. Nagano came up with all the mecha names (many named after his favorite rock bands), some characters, and a good chunk of the plot, especially towards the end (he was credited as one of the screenwriters in one of the L-Gaim artbooks). It's no stretch to assume that he came up with part of the title, given how involved he was.
Kawamori's original title for SDF was also only mechanical designer. But we now know he did far more than that.
>>13989731
>>13989732
>he's still trying so hard
>>13991040
>>13989020
That's one hell of a persecution complex you have.
>>13985431
>Most of them don't know any western designer other than Syd Mead, and that's only because of Turn A
That's because this is a jap culture board. As such, it makes sense that very few people would give a shit about non-jap /m/ shit. How new and stupid are you to not realize that?
I do love this series but I can definitely see it being really daunting to get into, not just because of its scope but its narrative nature.
And yeah, the quality of the actual characters fluctuates greatly. Sometimes its fine, even really cool, and other times they have that really wispy...weirdly proportioned look Nagano loves.
I love the world and overall narrative so much though that I guess I've been able to look past it but I can definitely see it as a drawback.
>>13991229
>How new and stupid are you to not realize that?
Pretty sure he already knew that.
Doesn't change the fact that most people on this board are stupid and ignorant as fuck and spout bullshit without even knowing anything about it outside of what's regurgitated over and over again.
The simple fact is there are barely any good mechanical designs in the west and even fewer of them design giant robots.
You know /m/, you're usually very autistic about your art shit, but this thread seems especially bad even in comparison to normal. It's somewhat impressive, actually.
>>13993129
Looks like someone hasn't been to any of the G-Reco threads before.
>>13990631
If you make up shit you can assume anything.
>>13994178
Speak for yourself.
>>13983209
>That character looks disgusting.
If we're being honest, Nagano isn't horrendous when it comes to drawing manga. It's very regular and understandable, if somewhat outdated in style/technical choices (but Nagano doesn't give a fuck, and also manages to have a unique style all his own).
However, give that man a cover to draw, and he creates fucking alien ghost things. Once you give that man some pigments to work with instead of black inks and toners, he suddenly gets more insane than usual.
I suppose it's that he gets a tad too busy in everything he draws, so once you get into something as complicated as a full-color cover, he goes nuts.
>>13994758
>he creates fucking alien ghost things
A mummy is fine too.
>>13994831
Jeez, and people complain about CLAMP's noodle proportions
