Why Unicorn?
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
ZZ is the UC Gundam that needs a remake and would benefit the most from it
>>13904276
The remake it got was being made non canon by the Zeta movies.
>>13904289
sauce?
ZZ its fine really, only thing that needs "fixing" is Glemy's rise to power. they could have explained that better. and no puru deaths or at least not kill puru 2 or elpeo...
Because ZZ already accomplished what Tomino wanted, and he doesn't feel it needs to be done again.
The Unicorn TV series is just extra padding by Sunrise to make more money, because of how much of a financial success it was.
>>13904301
The Zeta movies
Yeah I remember that horrendous beginning
>>13904276
Watching ZZ right after Zeta was a weird experience
>>13904307
>only thing that needs "fixing" is Glemy's rise to power
Or the horrible first 11 episodes.
>>13904319
not canon confirmed by tomino
>>13904276
> Unicorn TV
> Remake
You realize they're just hurriedly replacing a cancelled show with a TV edit of a cash cow OVA, right? One where the footage is already made, already up to modern visual standards, and pretty much already long enough to run two cours.
Remaking ZZ would take actual work.
>>13904276
an altered ZZ following off of the Zeta movie timeline would be interesting, but it would just give autists like >>13904289 more fuel
>>13904468
>>13906368
>>13906407
Black_Knight I know you're shitposting as anon.
Please don't remind of early ZZ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouMNrL4zmd0
I would be hyped
It's would be rather funny to see Haman fail to get the shota cock again
>>13904289
I don't understand how this is even an issue to anyone who sits down to think about this for five minutes. If Sunrise/Bandai wants to have ZZ:ANT, the Zeta movies are hardly any impediment to them.
>Movie opens to NZ sneak attacking Argama
>Good hit makes some bulkheads explode
>Kamille is rushing to pilot lockers (with or without Fa, take your poison.)
>Gets caught in an explosion/shields Fa from an explosion
>Gets bonked by debris/bonks against another bulkhead/some debris
>Amnesia/coma. YAY
>Story picks up from where the Argama meets Jewdough and gang
If I can get this out with a sandwich in one hand I'm sure Sunrise can do even better with an actual production process. No one would agree that a hypothetical ZZ:ANT has any time to gallop around on Moon-Moon or spare more than 15 mins for the desert arc, but actually leading in from Z:ANT is hardly something impossible.
I only ask that they not mix old and new animation if it comes to that.
>>13906798
Thank you for that. Seriously the amount of anons saying ZZ was noncanon got to me
You mean they should make an anime of ZZ?
Didn't Amuro have a role in ZZ we didn't get to see?
>>13906798
>my fan fic is how things should go.
I prefer mine where Zeon wins and peace finally happens because ever everyone is moved to outer space.
>>13907022
He pretended to be a grunt
>>13907030
Those poor Zeke scum
Why ZZ or Unicorn instead of 00P?
>>13906798
You don't even need to hurt Kamille. You can just put an actual gap between Z: ANT and ZZ: ANT of a few weeks or months, wherein Kamille and Fa leave the Argama to go to Earth because things look peaceful enough that they decide it's okay to leave their militia group, then the Argama goes off and docks at Shangri-la for reasons and Judau and company try and hijack the Zeta.
Sure, it would require some plot changes, but so what? You'd have to make some changes regardless.
Glad to see my 0079 thread got this discussion going.
>>13909217
Sure it did.
Because nobody cares about ZZ.
Even if you managed to salvage that pile, it's not like there's anything it people want to see.
I mean I guess there are a handful of pedophiles after Puru. And that one idiot that thinks Glemy was a good villain. But that's about it.
>>13909278
ZZ is a great point in the UC timeline. Derailed by shitty comedy and teenage antics.
I feel like if you change anything about ZZ, it stops being ZZ
>>13904515
>hurriedly replacing a cancelled show with a TV edit
You lost me, what's getting cancelled?
>>13904276
No what needs a remake are the Zeta movies so they aren't literally the worst thing to be made that carries the name Gundam
>>13904276
Because ZZ is shit nobody buys
While Unicorn is shit everybody buys
>>13907027
>I prefer mine where Zeon wins and peace finally happens because everyone ever is gassed to death.
ftfy
If it means re-making ZZ and fitting it to the ending of the Zeta movies' ending, why not have it like this:
Glemy revolts against Haman, since the former still wants to fight the Earth Federation.
Kamille getting wounded in the process, and with the Earth Federation Forces and AEUG exhausted, Glemy's Axi Zeon forces invade Earth without much resistance.
>>13904276
Because Sunrise need to get back the money they lost from IBO and nobody likes ZZ.
>>13904515
>You realize they're just hurriedly replacing a cancelled show
I need more details.
>>13912936
people are still taking that season 1 rumor from amazon as truth and since ibo was always meant to be one season long, they're assuming season 2 was cancelled because it's shit and they're replacing it with unicorn
>>13912969
Well, that's just plain retarded
ZZ doesn't need remake or sequel because it is one of the least relevant of the original UC shows. Mainly because it's just a giant filler to deal with a loose end from Zeta.
If they followed the original script where Char comes back to revolt against Haman, things would have been a lot different, but since Char's Counter Attack was green lit, ZZ had to be re-written to have NOT Char be the one in charge of the revolt making the whole series meaningless. Compounding the fact that outside of Unicorn (Even then, that's a stretch.) None of the characters in ZZ make any appearances in later series.
Just because a very loud, vocal minority thinks ZZ is good and entitled to proper treatment, doesn't mean it's going to happen. Especially in getting a full budget for a remake.
>>13913334
>things happened that don't involve the guy I fap at every day so it's not important
>>13913340
>Doesn't involve one of the main characters in the franchise.
>People wonder why it gets forgotten.
In the great scheme of things, ZZ is not important.All the more reason it was retconned
>>13913372
>"important" = good
>implying 0080 isn't the best UC work
Wow, you are a faggot.
>>13913378
>Strawman
>>13913389
No, it's not. You can't just say something is shit simply because it's unimportant "in the great scheme of this" and then do a 180 when someone points out something else should fall under that same dumbass rule.
Come up with a better argument than "shit because not cannon because my uncle who works at Sunrise said so" for once, you ape.
>>13913398
Yes I can, because you're comparing a side story, 0080, to ZZ which was supposed to be a main series before that plot line (Char's return), and the series itself was essentially shelved in favor of Char's Counter Attack. Maybe in another reality where Char comes back to lead a civil war against Haman, things would be different, but we aren't in that one and work with what we have. But we aren't, so you have this extremely awkward series that suffers from severe mood whiplash, where characters don't develop, or become recurring and nothing is accomplished in the end to the point where Tomino uses Bright as a mouthpiece to apologize to the audience.If you want to turn this into a canon vs non-canon thread. i have no problem with that either
>>13913439
>Yes I can, because you're comparing a side story, 0080, to ZZ which was supposed to be a main series before that plot line (Char's return)
No, you can't.
>If you want to turn this into a canon vs non-canon thread. i have no problem with that either
Unicorn uses mobile suits and a character from ZZ. Its plot is also less important than ZZ.
>>13913439
Japs don't care about canon, deepshit.
>>13913459
Yes, i can.
Also going by timelines, it just means Unicron is part of the non-canon TV timeline since it makes references to ZZ. The fact that Unicorn is being turned into a TV series only reinforces this fact.
>>13913466
To deep, 4 U?
>>13913504
>Also going by timelines, it just means Unicron is part of the non-canon TV timeline since it makes references to ZZ. The fact that Unicorn is being turned into a TV series only reinforces this fact.
>To deep, 4 U?
>>13912936
>>13912969
That's not it. It's some kids show sunrise had going that was basically an average shounen about breakdancing
>>13913504
>ANT makes ZZ non-canon
>Unicorn makes it canon again
There you go.
>>13913504
If ANT is canon, why doesn't it have any sequels?
They aren't remaking Unicorn, they are just editing it into TV sized chunks and adding some animation here and there so idiot otaku will watch/buy it again.
Actually remaking ZZ Gundam would require a whole new project, not to mention that you'd still be making a sequel to Zeta, which is shit, so there's little to no actual basis for a solid show.
>>13913504
> The fact that Unicorn is being turned in to a TV series only reinforces this fact.
I'm in need of a good laugh so I'm going to ask you to explain the logic you twisted in to shape to come up with that one.
>>13913504
ANT isn't canon.
You are, and always have been delusional though.
>>13913858
CCA is it's sequel according to Black_Knight. No, I'm not kidding. Yes he is totally serious, and I know you're probably tripping over logical arguments for why that's silly at the moment and eager to line them all up in a way that you think is totally infallible, but don't waste your time because he'll just jam his testicles in his ears and wind himself in to his ever tighter spiral of personal logic as to why this makes total sense and then genuinely wonder why everyone thinks he's crazy before blaming it on a refusal to accept that his theory is canon despite the Japanese not actually giving two fiddler's fucks about canon and there being nothing to actually substantiate it by anyone at Sunrise ever.
>>13913858
>>13913930
>>13913931
You still haven't done anything to prove that A New Translation doesn't translate perfectly into Char's Counter Attack. I'm a patient man, I'll wait for whatever excuse you pull out of the ether.
>>13913986
You still haven't done anything to prove that it translates better than Zeta tv series in to it or that anyone at Sunrise, Tomino included actually considers it the new canon. I'm a patient man, I'll wait for whatever excuse you pull out of the aether.
>>13914000
You also have an extremely short memory, but I'm used to dealing with people like you who argue with me out of spite.
Here's the facts.
>Axis Zeon retreats at the end of New Translation which wraps up the biggest loose end between TV Zeta and Char's Counter Attack
>Axis Zeon left Axis in the Earth Sphere which means the Federation claim it and then sell it to Char.
>Char's reference to Haman's Zeon in Char's Counter Attack could easily be interpreted as her actions during the Gryps Conflict.
Now you can use that, or take a horrible round about 47 episode detour that makes a mockery of established characters, generally accomplishes nothing and leaves no lasting legacy as the main characters who were introduced in ZZ never return for any other animated series.
>>13914077
> It's canon because it's shorter and I don't like what the other one does with some characters
Thanks for finally being honest about it.
>>13914077
>Now you can use that, or take a horrible round about 47 episode detour that makes a mockery of established characters, generally accomplishes nothing and leaves no lasting legacy as the main characters who were introduced in ZZ never return for any other animated series.
Your personal feeling about a story have nothing to do with it being canon or not. What you're doing is absolutely no different than tumblrinas screeching that every single fictional character they can name is homosexual/bisexual/transsexual/autistic/a purple gorilla.
>>13914101
>>13914106
I'm still waiting for your solid proof that A New Translation doesn't fits perfectly into Char's Counter Attack. Instead you deviate into a claim that I'm biased because I dared to point out that characters like Bright, Wong and Haman were emasculated in ZZ, because of Char's Counter Attacking being green lit halfway through ZZ's run, the script had to be re-written to not feature Char and instead some random officer, and Tomino hasn't referenced any of the characters or events of ZZ gundam in his future works.
Keep with those strawmen (Which leads to an ad hominem to boot), it shows your desperation since if you can only cling the straws on secondary points, I assume you've just conceded outright defeat on the primary ones.
>>13914148
Because all of Sunrise's behaviors suggest Unicorn is canon, therefore ZZ is canon.
>>13914148
There was a Capule or Kapool or whatever it was called in G-Reco. Not the one from Turn A because it had specific skirts that are unique to the ZZ version.
>>13914177
Kapool's have been portrayed with both holes and no holes on the skirts. Also the chest cannons were in line with the designs of the Kapool, not the Capules. And you can't use animation error as an excuse because that can cut both ways.
>>13914158
By that logic, Origins is the canon timeline now.
>>13914148
I don't need to prove that A New Translation doesn't fit perfectly with Char's Counterattack because that was never the point, the point was that it doesn't actually make it the only canon entry of the two. What you need to prove is that anyone at Sunrise shares your theory and considers Zeta tv and ZZ non-canon. Which you've never done. You've said why YOU think they might be non-canon but that doesn't mean diddly because you don't work there. And it also doesn't change the fact that Zeta tv segues perfectly in to ZZ and from there in to Char's Counterattack too.
It doesn't matter if Bright, Haman and Wong were emasculated (a process that begins well before the half way point of ZZ) because that doesn't constitute them being non-canon - only you not liking a thing. And you not liking something doesn't make it non-canon. That isn't a strawman, you were the one that said it. It was you entire post at >>13914077. I'd also point out that Tomino hasn't referenced Kamille in any of his later works. Or Fa. Or anyone from Zeta outside Roberto and Apolly. Unless you count ZZ.
>>13914192
>By that logic, Origins is the canon timeline now.
Well, if we're going to insist ANT is canon.
>>13914192
>By that logic, Origins is the canon timeline now.
Barring the part where the OVA is clearly tweaking elements of Origin to bring it more in line with 0079, that is...
>>13914195
>I don't need to prove that A New Translation doesn't fit perfectly with Char's Counterattack because that was never the point.
Yes it was, if A New Translation didn't mesh well with Char's Counter Attack, that would be the first point to be brought up to discredit me. Much to your dismay, Tomino did an excellent job of connecting a New Translation and Char's Counter Attack together. So while you can claim TV series connect well, I'm pointing out the same thing happens with the movies. If anything you you're proving my point more about a TV and Movie timeline.
>It doesn't matter if Bright, Haman and Wong were emasculated (a process that begins well before the half way point of ZZ)
Actually it does when you have them act extremely uncharacteristically to how they were before. Bright and Haman got the blunt of it to the point he let the rebellious teenage pilot hit him as opposed to beating sense into him. Haman is no longer the cold, calculating woman to the extent she was in Zeta and Wong was turned into an outright invalid. Hell a New Translation actually took some effort to make Wong likable by cutting out the really negative moments he has. Also I'm pretty sure Astonaige Medoz was featured in Char's Counter attack. Still waiting for ZZ specific character to be listed.
>>13914196
>>13914201
Well are you going to commit, or not?
>>13914255
I like how you stopped reading anon's post after the first line.
>the point was that it doesn't actually make it the only canon entry of the two. What you need to prove is that anyone at Sunrise shares your theory and considers Zeta tv and ZZ non-canon.
>>13914255
Not it wasn't. The point was that you need to prove that A New Translation segues better than Zeta and ZZ tv series and then that someone at Sunrise shares your opinion. Which you've never done. All you've ever done is try to shift the burden of proof of yourself and on to other people the same way you're doing now, by demanding they proof your statement invalid rather that you prove yours valid. Which isn't how the burden of proof works for the simple reason that it's kind of difficult to disprove an invalid thing in many cases but a valid one is almost always provable in some form.
It doesn't matter how good a job Tomino did connecting the ANT movies to CCA because that doesn't make them canon and the tv shows non-canon, it only proves he's a good writer and was able to connect a new work to an old one.
Also, if acting different to how they were before is enough to render a thing non-canon, then everything Zeta is non-canon because Char is different in them to how he was in 0079. I'm sure you'll point out that those changes were building on the characters, but so were the ones in ZZ. Just because they were building in a negative direction doesn't make them any less valid because negative growth is still growth and a completely valid form of writing. You not liking them is again not a valid reason to think they're non-canon and that's really all your argument comes down to at the end of the day.
But yea, Astoniage appears in Char's Counterattack, not Roberto and Apolly. Which means there's less characters that appear from Zeta in any other shows beyond ZZ. Just a single minor character. Wowee. Which is also ignoring the point that that doesn't actually define canon status.
>>13909289
>>13912936
>>13912969
>>13913019
What >>13913778 said. The Unicorn repackage is replacing Brave Beats at 7AM.
>>13914255
>Haman is no longer the cold, calculating woman to the extent she was in Zeta
You say this while preferring ANT Haman, who randomly decides to leave the Earth Sphere with all her troops on small warships not built for long term habitation while leaving behind Axis and Moussa with all their industrial, habitation and agricultural facilities so they can all die a slow death in deep space when the food and oxygen runs out. Which is a great deal stupider than anything she ever did in ZZ.
>>13914304
It did that baldy? That's what happens when you don't flaunt the hot milf more.
>>13914304
How are you gonna run Unicorn at 7AM? They must be editing out all the deaths, that series is oldschool UC sadistic in terms of just oodles of people getting blown up.
>>13914300
>>13914264
You, the post.
It's highly amusing that you you cede that Tomino did a good job connecting A New Translation and Char's Counter Attack, because if there was any inconsistency, no matter how minor, you'd put that on a mantle and post it any chance you'd get if threads questioning ZZ being canon appeared.
Also if you want to appeal to Sunrise as being the final say in what is and isn't canon. That just strengthens my point further. How? Well Sunrise's stance is that if it's animated, it is canon. Now ZZ prides itself by its theme that it is not Anime. Now what is Anime? Animation. So we can assume that it's not true animation and using Sunrise's standards, not canon. And before you claim that it's asinine, I'm just looking at the evidence presented and coming to the common sense solution. Or are you now going to claim that something Tomino wrote suddenly doesn't count?
Also Astoniage, a character introduced in Zeta Gundam, does make an appearance, and you know what? That's one character more than any characters introduced in ZZ Gundam that appear in Char's Counter Attack. You can brush it aside and claim it's just a 'minor character' But that's just more evidence that strengthen's my argument that you want to dismiss because it doesn't meant your ever growing and unreasonable standards.
>>13915356
> moving the goalposts
> >>13914000
> You still haven't done anything to prove that it translates better than Zeta tv series in to it or that anyone at Sunrise, Tomino included actually considers it the new canon. I'm a patient man, I'll wait for whatever excuse you pull out of the aether.
>>13914300
> The point was that you need to prove that A New Translation segues better than Zeta and ZZ tv series and then that someone at Sunrise shares your opinion. Which you've never done.
Yea, I sure did move those goalposts by asking for exactly the same thing in both my first and last post. Also, I do love how you hold yourself up as a completely rational poster and then try to use the lyrics of ZZ's OP as proof that ZZ isn't canon with a straight face. Yes, it is totally asinine. Tomino writing them doesn't make a difference because it's still a petty argument on the tiniest technicality (which is ironic considering your second sentence about what you think I'd do if I thought there was any inconsistency) and we both know it. Also, you do realize I never argued that characters appearing in a future work matters, that was all you, only that if you were going to do so that Zeta doesn't fare much better. My point was always that whether or not the cast of a show appears in future works makes exactly zero difference. It's like arguing that CCA isn't canon because none of the new cast introduced appears in F91, or that F91 isn't canon because noone from it appears in Victory. It's a completely arbitrary standard that only you are holding up as some kind of indicator of canonicity, but means nothing in that regard in reality.
>>13915356
>Also if you want to appeal to Sunrise as being the final say in what is and isn't canon. That just strengthens my point further. How? Well Sunrise's stance is that if it's animated, it is canon. Now ZZ prides itself by its theme that it is not Anime.
>>13915388
Well first, I listed off the how A New Translation fits perfectly with Char's Counter Attack better than the Zeta TV series when you compare the two, Yet you refuse to acknowledge that and preservative on the TV series. This is pretty solid evidence that you can't find anything refute that so all you can do is pick on secondary and tertiary points
And if you're going to say that the evidence that ZZ is not canon because it's not anime doesn't count. That just means you think you know better than Tomino and Sunrise. I am just using the what Sunrise said and applying to what is seen, or in this case, heard. I mean what's left? Grasping at straws over what characters appear or not? You have defacto conceded that you can't prove that A New Translation and Char's Counter Attack don't align nearly perfectly, so you're forced to talk about the Zeta TV version which is irrelevant to the current discussion.
>Tomino writing them doesn't make a difference
>The CREATOR of the franchise writing something for the franchise doesn't matter.
Refer to image
>>13915413
>I can't look at the facts and draw common sense conclusions.
>Better throw out an autism insult.
Refer to image
>>13915413
Do people still not understand the meaning of Anime Ja Nai?
It's not meant to be taking literally as in "it's not anime, it's a cartoon" like I've seen some idiots thinking not realizing there's no distinction between the two, the song simply reflects the theme of "adults just don't understand". If you bother to actually read the lyrics you notice it's all about adults talking down the reality of children and dismissing everything they hold important as merely dreams and stuff in cartoons and comics.
>>13915522
Why are you telling me this and not Black_Knight's dumb ass?
>>13915476
See >>13915522
Also kill yourself.
>>13915476
I asked for you to prove that the movies fit better than the tv show because your entire reasoning for the movies being canon is that they fit better and you've yet to actually say how. Asking for you to do isn't picking out minor points, it's asking you to actually expand your argument. Which still leaves out the whole "someone at Sunrise supporting your point" thing.
I don't think I know better than Sunrise, but I do think that actually trying to use the lyrics of an OP that the show isn't an anime when it's clearly animated is just being obtuse and a sign that you're bankrupt of real arguments and falling back on the pettiest things you can find.
I never said that Tomino creating the show didn't matter by the way, since that's the way you're taking it, only that him writing the OPs lyrics doesn't make your argument any more valid or not stupid.
>>13914652
To be fair, a lot of those deaths are either split-second glimpses of blood or last-moment cutaways before someone gets slagged. The most objectionable thing I think they have to deal with is maybe the mentions of Marida's past but hell if I know. Maybe they'll cut or tweak that along with whatever other changes they make.
Also to clarify, it's 7AM Sunday morning.
>>13915476
> I mean what's left? Grasping at straws over what characters appear or not?
I'd also just like to point out that this is a pretty hilarious argument given that you're the only person going "no but Zeta actually has one person from it's cast appear in another work and ZZ doesn't so there" and that I've been saying is that it doesn't actually matter or mean anything so that the only person you're criticizing here is yourself.
You know at this point I'm halfway comvinced that Black_Knight is some kind of elaborate false flag to make Zeon apologists and 'ZZ isn't canon' people look like idiots. Because the alternative is that there really is someone that deluded and autistic out there that believes the bullshit he spews and that's just sad.
>>13915552
You asked me to explain how A New Translations fits better with Char's Counter Attack than TV Zeta and ZZ. I listed the 3 major plot points people could bring up that could lead to major contradictions >>13914077 There is nothing else to say beyond that. Again, you can't even touch my central points so you focus on minor things. While at the same time I use the information given to draw conclusions. They just happen to fall in my favor. If you manage to produce evidence contrary, I'll look at it. But the best I've seen is 'B-b-b-but Sunrise!' to which I turned that logic on its head.
>>13915582
When you manage to refute my central argument and produce irrefutable evidence that A New Translation can't integrate with Char's Counter Attack. I'll be all ears, but as I said before. You're just working at minor things and I'm going out of my way to prove that you're wrong there too.
Again, waiting for you to show me smoking gun evidence that there is some massive inconsistency between A New Translation and Char's Counter Attack.
>>13915522
That would be if you try to interpret the lyrics, I'm taking the literal route.
>>13915614
I'd save that pity for yourself for putting such a vested interest in some random person on the internet.
>>13915663
>That would be if you tried to actually interpret the lyrics, I'm just interpreting the first line of the lyrics in the dumbest way possible.
And why would they write this song to say ZZ isn't canon BEFORE CCA was planned and BEFORE Sunrise said than animated=official?
>>13915476
>The CREATOR of the franchise writing something for the franchise doesn't matter.
Do you not understand the difference between creator and owner? Tomino doesn't own the franchise, he doesn't get to call the shots on what's official or canon. He is to Gundam as Stan Lee is to Spider-Man, the company he works for owns the characters and the stories that he produced as an employee.
For the love of god stop feeding the tripcancer.
>>13915685
Tomino: Director, Writer, Songwriter, Diviner.
>>13915689
Without content, Sunrise would have to declare what is and isn't canon. That puts Tomino in a very strong position since you have to know what to base previous work off of before creating it. Which puts the creator in a much better position to decide what counts over the owner. Unless the owner goes full retard and drives a series into the ground, which by luck, you make one of the great example with Spider Man in why it should be the creators who dictate how a series goes over the owners.
>>13915697
Well at least you didn't say troll, I'd take umbrage with that. Because it's not trolling when it's true.
Reminder that ANT is incoherent shit.
More than Zeta normally is, I mean.
>it's another argue with grandpa about whether or not ZZ is canon episode
This anime sucks
>>13915795
Post more Puru.
Why do so many people care about canon in regards to anime?
>>13915795
You respect your elders from the greatest generation, fucking ungrateful millennials. Now get over here so I can cane you.
>>13915815
Trolls tiggering autistic autism.
>>13915815
I don't, I'm just humoured that some poor fool out there would go through such absurd mental gymnastics to say one cartoon is more real than another.
New Gundam Unicorn novel coming out around April:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-12-25/gundam-uc-new-11th-novel-volume-confirmed-for-early-2016/.96920
Wasn't there another UC-era book set shortly after Unicorn with some kind of headless Ecole du Ciel-type Gundam?
>>13916087
Maybe it won't be such a giant feddie wank... oh who am I kidding.
>>13915663
Your central point is that the Zeta movies fit CCA but it doesn't mean anything if the tv shows also fit it. It only has a conclusive meaning if they fit better the movies fit better than the tv shows. Which they don't and you've never demonstrated they do. I'm not producing evidence to the contrary because I'm not trying to demonstrate that the tv shows fit better, only asking you to demonstrate that the movies fit better. No smoking gun because that's not my job. The burden of proof is on you as the person making the claim that the common and accepted course of events is no longer correct. And the tv shows being canon is the common and accepted logic regardless of validity.
You're taking the literal route with Anime Ja Nai because you know it's the only way you can give yourself even the tiniest technicality to stand on with your completely arbitrary and silly point.
That said, having been checking the wikia a while ago for the sake of argument I spotted that Tomino has apparently addressed this exact question in the past and said that the Zeta movies don't make the tv show non-official, they're just a different take on it and aren't meant to over ride it or anything else. I'm not trying to claim this as proof, since it's a wikia and anyone can add anything to it, only wondering if anyone here has come across any interview like that in the past. I'm going to Google for it, but I've no idea if it's Japanese or English and it's kind of hard to get decent results when the search terms are as vague as "Tomino interview Zeta another" and so on.
>>13915815
They don't. I want Tomino to make Turn-A either non-canon or just it's own separate AU because I don't like it and G-Reco co-existing given what it implies for the ending of whichever one you figure is the earlier chronological entry and G-Reco is the newer show and should be given priority on that alone. I still enjoy a few parts of the Star Wars old EU, often more than the new one despite them no longer being canon and enjoyed the old Clone Wars cartoon even before Legends was created despite that being non-canon for years.
I care about this because Black_Knight won't stop banging on about something that he has no real proof of while claiming it's unequivocally true at every chance he gets. If he wasn't so persistent in saying it, most people probably wouldn't be as persistent in arguing back with him. And no Black_Knight, your theory about the movies lining up with CCA doesn't constitute proof unless you have no idea what proof means. It's a theory and nothing more.
We're off topic now
Mods just fucking ban Black Knight already
There a lot of things in UC Gundam that need better TV remakes than Unicorn. How about F91? It felt like it was cut into pieces before it became a movie, instead of planned TV series.
I want ZZ remake too though, without all extensive comedy and with better storytelling. Mostly because it had interesting characters, and i would love to see more Haman.
People shitting on ZZ sometimes don't understand potential of that particular series. Its comedic attitude was justified because Zeta was too grim and Kamile cried every single god damn episode. I was cheering on Titans when he got into coma.
>>13916873
I'd like to point out that the only reason that ANT's ending can even 'fit' with CCA is because if the huge out of character contrivance of Haman arbitrarily deciding to leave the Earth Sphere and abandon her stated goal to return to Side 3 and restore the Zabi family's rule for no fucking reason whatsoever. AND for all her troops to go along with this without objection, despite Zeon's well known reputation for infighting and factionalism, despite a large number of these guys probably being fed propaganda about 'the return of Glorious Zeon to the Earth Sphere!' since childhood and the fact that it will highly likely be a one-way trip because as pointed out in >>13914404, a bunch of Endras aren't made for long term habitation. It's kind of hard to say that ANT segues better into CCA when it requires as large an asspull as this to 'fit'.
There's also a rather large character related plot niggle of going from ANT to CCA. Mainly why a Kamille that didn't sufffer the mental and physical traumas he did at the end of the Zeta TV series wouldn't help Amuro go and kick Char's shit in in CCA.
![[Over-Time] Animal Sentai Zyuohger - 01 [20D4CB5C].mkv_snapshot_02.25_[2016.02.15_14.37.33].png](https://i.imgur.com/WUXEgAF.jpg "[Over-Time] Animal Sentai Zyuohger - 01 [20D4CB5C].mkv_snapshot_02.25_[2016.02.15_14.37.33].png")
>>13915572
7AM Sunday Morning is right before this
>>13906798
>yfw ZZ gets remade as 4 feature-length films
>1 is a straight remake that goes up to haman's palace
>2 changes some things, Kamille doesn't have a coma and returns to piloting
>3 re-introduces Amuro and Char along with Glemy and Haman
>4 is trippy as shit and Tomino fucking with us
>New Translation of ZZ: This Is (Not) Anime
>>13916873
The fact I've shown that A New Translation fits perfectly with Char's Counter Attack is all the proof necessary to deal with your goal post moving that I have to prove it fits better than the TV shows. It's up to you to refute that evidence rather than just go 'nu-hun, that doesn't count' As for Anime Ja Nai, I'm just using the information you've given and drawing the a common sense conclusion.
As for what Tomino said, I can say the same thing, he might have said that, but that doesn't mean it cuts the other way and the Movies don't count either. Tomino has always be ambiguous with his answers.
>>13917032
Looking at her fleet during the final credits shows that it was decimated in the conflict, don't forget A New Translation went out of its way to mention that Haman abandoned Axis and show their flagship, the Gwadan be destroyed. Based on that information, and the fact that the AEUG forces weren't wiped out like in the TV series, Haman took what would be considered the most prudent course of action. It's hardly a plot hole or loose end. Haman failed in her ambition and instead of sticking around and risking further loses, she retreated to regroup. Now you can question her judgement on that, but that doesn't change the fact of what happened, nor changes the canon.
>>13916914
See picture
>>13916922
>I was cheering on Titans when he got into coma.
Interesting trick seeing as the Titans were wiped out before he went into that coma...
>>13918099
Okay, I have to ask Black_Knight: what do you think moving the goalposts means? Because I'm starting to think you genuinely don't know. That or you do know and are just willfully misusing the phrase to try and paint me in a negative light because I've been asking for the same thing all along.
It does not matter that the Zeta movies line up with CCA on it's own, because so does Zeta and ZZ. They have to, given that CCA was explicitly designed to follow them. And since both are valid lead ins to CCA your theory would only be conclusive if the movies fit CCA better. Which you've never proven. Nor again, have you ever shown that anyone at Sunrise shares your view on things. Which means you haven't proven anything except perhaps that you don't know what proof is either.
Also, Tomino saying that the Zeta movies are just another take and don't over-ride the tv show (presuming he did say it, and if he did I haven't found it after a bit of Googling) is not ambiguous. An ambiguous answer is one that doesn't give any kind of definite information, which in Tomino's case is normally when he's asked which shows he's worked on he liked most or least and so on. He always answers those by saying everything or nothing, which is a non-answer and thus ambiguous. Him saying that the Zeta movies aren't meant to over shadow the tv show might be a trolling answer from him, which some people accuse him of doing, but given that that answer doesn't inflame anyone (beyond maybe you) it's unlikely to be a deliberately inflammatory answer either. So it'd just be a clear cut answer if he did give it.
Not that I think you'd accept it even in that case. You'd find some reason to say it doesn't hold water because you are, I think, a fundamentalist by nature. You've come upon something that suits you and you won't accept anything that contradicts it regardless of source or validity.
>>13918099
>Looking at her fleet during the final credits shows that it was decimated in the conflict
The only shot of her fleet is after they've gone across most of the solar system. For all we know she started out with more ships but they got abandoned along the way due to lack of fuel/supplies or being unable to maintain.repair them, or even that she even left most of her ships in the Earth Sphere again due to not being able to maintain/repair them because they left their maintenance and manufacturing facilities back in the Earth Sphere like a bunch of retards.
>A New Translation went out of its way to mention that Haman abandoned Axis and show their flagship, the Gwadan be destroyed
You do realize that both of those things also happened in Zeta TV, don't you?
>the fact that the AEUG forces weren't wiped out like in the TV series
[citation needed] Please point out where it is shown onscreen or in dialogue that the AEUG didn't suffer as many casualties as in Zeta TV.
Also still waiting on an explanation for why a non-brain dead ANT Kamille would just sit around while Char genocides the Earth in CCA.
>>13919195
You asked how it is canon. I gave clear evidence of how A New Translation does nothing to contradict Char's Counter Attack and then you move on to demand I then show how it wouldn't work with the TV series. If that's not moving the goalposts, you tell me what is. Because the original, and only burden of proof for me is to show that A New Translation perfectly fits into the prime timeline which would be the Mobile Suit Gundam Movies before it, and Char's Counter Attack after it. Seeing as no one can even try to refute that, it's a point well made. Also if it was meant to be its own separate telling that had no bearing on the rest of the UC timeline as you claim Tomino said, how can you explain how Tomino went out of his way to tie up every major loose end that occurred in TV Zeta in A New Translation so the audience can jump right into Char's Counter Attack with no problem? Also you keep bringing up Sunrise, so I turn that asinine point on it's head by pointing to Anime Ja Nai. Or are you going to say that doesn't count because only you know the true meaning of the lyrics?
As for Tomino's 'answer' on A New Translation, he has to be ambiguous because if he says it doesn't matter, that would hurt sales in Sunrise's eyes because that's the director basically saying 'This doesn't matter, don't bother seeing it'. Inversely, if he says it does, that means Sunrise can't milk the TV version anymore. So it's up to the viewer to look at the evidence and come to the proper conclusion.
Unless you want to track down Tomino and corner him until he gives a definitive answer.
To while he'll probably say it's up to Sunrise, which leads up back to Anime Ja Nai, Nice vicious little cycle eh?
You can't claim I'm a fundamentalist, when a majority of the evidence is on my side, if anything you've adopted the fundamentalist nature, not out of principle, but just to spite me. Which is pretty sad.
>>13917080
That works perfectly then. Robot Unicorns and then furry sentai and then ghost riders.
Sounds like a great /m/ block!
>>13919470
I never asked how it was canon though. The first thing I was to show how the movies fit in to CCA better than the two tv series and to show that someone at Sunrise agreed with you in >>13914000. The burden of proof on you is to prove your claim that ZZ isn't canon or that the Zeta movies are. Pointing out that they line up with CCA doesn't prove that because so do the tv shows. You need to show why the Zeta movies should be taken as the only canon if you're going to claim that they make the two tv shows non-canon. Which you've never done.
Tomino wrapped up the loose ends because he's a good writer and good writing doesn't leave loose ends. Nothing more. That does not make it the canon version of events.
You yourself said that the lyrics have nothing to do with the show not being an anime and that you're only taking the technical meaning of the song name literally because it's the only way to make it fit your theory. You know it's a transparent argument and yet you persist in it.
Also, I like how you made a completely valid argument for why the two tv shows are actually canon while trying to say they're not. That was awful nice of you. If Tomino says they're canon despite whatever he may be thinking and no-one at Sunrise will say they're not canon and the public at large thinks they are canon - then the only conclusion is that they're canon. Especially since them being canon doesn't actually upset anything given that they fit CCA at least as well as the movies. And also that you think you know how everyone at Sunrise thinks about these things despite having nothing to back it up. Or did you yourself back him in to a corner and force an answer out of him? Along with all of Sunrise?
>>13920711
Oh, and he didn't actually wrap up every loose end seeing as how Haman just leaves with her ambitions and plans unfulfilled, taking an entire Zeon side with her. Which, given that CCA is about the last of Zeon (since you also think Unicom is non-canon), is kind of important given it leaves an active Zeon force just kind of there. Which is a loose end.
>>13920711
Sounds like nothing but unreasonable expectations on your part. The Sunrise angle was proven via what Sunrise claims is the basis of canon and the lyrics of ZZ's OP. you can complain all you want, but the facts still stand there. You can continue to whine about how it's 'transparent', but I have seen you do nothing to actually refute it outside of crude personal interpretations that have no grounding to be true. You're allowed to your own opinions, not your own facts. I am amused at how you continue to just say how A New Translation seemlessly connects with Char's Counter Attack is just Tomino being a good writer. The problem there is if it's meant to be its own continuity and not override anything else. You'd think Tomino wouldn't be so particular to have everything align up with Char's Counter Attack so perfectly to the point he went out of his way to tie up the loose ends left by the TV series. That sort of writing is not accidental and more than likely shows he wanted to bridge A New Translation to Char's Counter Attack. You can keep preservating on Sunrise (Which gives me further ammo because it's not anime.), I'll let the work speak for itself.
>>13920739
Char's Counter Attack was meant to be the final chapter in the Amuro vs Char Saga, not the last blitz of Zeon. You of all people shouldn't stoop to mischaracterizing.
I'm going to bet you're the same anon that naively thinks the Papua was a ship of war and not a transporter. I'm pretty sure you said you were done with me, twice. I'll hold off posting the smug anime picture until you say you're done with me a third time though.
>>13920841
So if the lyrics of ZZ matter, are you seriously saying ZZ, while in production, was never meant to be canon? Because if you aren't, then you're fucking retarded and a liar.
>>13920841
>The Sunrise angle was proven via what Sunrise claims is the basis of canon and the lyrics of ZZ's OP.
Holy shit, why are you people still arguing with this idiot? He's either a troll or completely insane.
So what is the animated series supposed to be? Are we getting a full remake, or just a chopped up version of the OVA (with or without new footages)?
When is it coming out, any new information regarding this imminent trainwreck?
>>13920901
Chopped OVA. March 4th I think. It won't be a trainwreck, it'll be literally the same shit. It can't be a trainwreck on its own merit because it has nothing original to offer. At worst you're just rewatching a trainwreck that already happened.
>>13920907
That sucks. It would have been interesting to see them flush out certain details, and maybe lead this series into another later UC series.
>>13920917
Still gonna be extra runtime but we don't know if that means padding or expansion.
>>13920917
They may add a few scenes here and there. Who knows, we may finally get an actual explanation on Full Frontal. Or they'll just add some mecha porn of Feddies jobbing to Glorious Noble Zeon.
>>13920920
>>13920923
Hopefully you two are right and there's some added substance to Unicorn. I liked Unicorn for the mecha porn but sometimes the character and story seemed a little lacking.
>>13920937
"A little" would be understating it a bit but at the same time I was treating it as mecha porn so the bad parts were only minor annoyances.
It won't be improved. Either the padding scenes are pointless, have mecha porn in them, or are packed at the end to tie into the latest novel.
>>13920923
I hope they add more scenes to the Puru angst flashback time. Somehow it's not "natural" enough to flow nicely with the story in the OVA.
It's just a few fucking stills and they expect us to immediately digest the fact that shit happened despite it's utter ridiculousness. The manga has a lot of extra shit for them to adapt, they should use it.
>>13916922
>I want ZZ remake too though, without all extensive comedy and with better storytelling. Mostly because it had interesting characters, and i would love to see more Haman.
The first pitch for ZZ sounded bit like that, and it was more of a direct Zeta sequel with Char still around.
I think after Zeta's kill em' all end the overarching plot of Tomino's early UC stated to fall apart, but it's very difficult to pull that sort of thing off especially if your publisher wants the 50 episode series their investing in to be accessible to new viewers.
>>13920896
>>13920848
It might be a giant coincidence that just happened to fall into the place. But the facts still stand that Sunrise goes out and says anything that is animated is considered canon, where you happen to then have the Zeta movies contradict ZZ, which happens to have a theme song that claims its not anime. Are you going to change the very fabric of our reality and deny this while just resorting to petty insults? You've already shown you can do the latter, I'm waiting to see if you have power to do the former since you clearly can't make a compelling counter-argument.
These arguments about ZZ remind me of something.
https://youtu.be/ugnDH5-j9D8?t=1m4s
>>13922215
>anything that is animated is considered canon
Thread over.
>>13922215
Second anon here, we aren't the same fag. Not gonna lie you're really exposing yourself here. I'd quit before more people see this thread and realize that you're just a troll. If you keep going on such a weak argument your reputation as a full retard will be in jeopardy.
In any case, Char is in Anime Ja Nai, which means that CCA was not yet greenlit, which means he didn't have any reason to make ZZ non-canon (because he totally planned decades in advance), which means that any argument you have involving the OP is useless.
>>13922215
While I'm at it, could you name what parts of ANT contradict ZZ and why nothing in between the two series could have rectified that but anything ZZ appearing in CCA is totally OK because you can just say "well it has been a while so of course X might appear/Y might have happened in that time".
By the way you flip-flop between "whatever Sunrise says is canon" and "only Tomino's word matters (and I know his exact intent from deciphering movies, not sourcing him directly)". Make up your mind.
>>13924298
Why should I quit? I'm right and the opposition don't want to debate me on merit or principles, but out of spite with no regards for the facts. Maybe you choose to debate me on things where your side has some merit to their points things would be different, but at this point, they don't and you like complete asses. What's more funny is a least some of you guys are same people who who got their asses handed to you in the Zeon discussion. Not fast learners eh?
I'm pretty sure it was Quatro who was in the OP. even then yes ZZ was meant to have a much bigger role, but when Char's Counter Attack is greenlight which makes ZZ nothing but a giant filler to deal with a loose end from Zeta and irrelevant to greater drama of Amuro and Char. This is why the word retcon exists.
>>13924312
Have you even watched the third movie? I know my adversaries in this debate are spiteful and intellectually bankrupt. I didn't expect them to be outright lazy. But for your benefit I'll list them from strongest to weakest.
>Kamille was not brain fried
>Axis Zeon and Haman leave the Earth sphere
>Mineva is left on Earth by Haman
>The AEUG forces weren't almost wiped out at the end of the Gryps Conflict.
Now the last one could be fit in somehow into ZZ, however the first 3 completely contradict ZZ's opening. If Kamille is around, he'd still pilot and Zeta and use his Judo to put Jewdough in his place. Also the whole thing of Axis Zeon leaving which means no Neo Zeon. Or Haman actually being a human being and letting Mineva go to live her own life and not just be a puppet for her.
As for Sunrise and Tomino. I personally believe it's the creator who has the last word. I'm just using Sunrise as a way to turn that argument on it's head because what other series had a movie to retcon it and by coincidence have an Opening that proudly claims it's not animated when the one thing Sunrise says to be considered canon is to be animated. A smart person would just concede, but you won't.
>>13925949
>I'm right
>>13925963
This man knows the art of debateProve me wrong
>>13926057
The entire thread. I win. Now kill yourself.
>>13926088
>I win
>Now kill yourself.
>>13925949
I had just entered the thread with my first response, never checked the Zeon discussion. All I saw was you stating that the lyrics of the OP matter.
Almost nobody on this board agrees with you.
>inb4 I have facts so they don't need to agree with me because I'm right
You do not have facts, you have assumptions. Your arguments always fall apart near the end and you can only hide it by increasingly aggressive posting. I still think you're the greatest troll ever to tripfag on this board and I do believe I'm giving you those free replies you love so much but I don't have much better to do. No need to reply to this part by the way, you've already proven your point that you're much holier than I etc etc so no need to stoop to my level and insult me back. It just makes your argument more convoluted so stick with hard facts and cold logic to beat me down. If you have any facts at all, of course.
My argument right now is only that the lyrics have 0 to do with whether ZZ is canon or not.
There is a contradiction in your reasoning. If the opening is stating "this is non-canon", why was Quattro in the OP? You need the music to animate the OP. If the music was written to show that ZZ wasn't canon, then why put Quattro (and Amuro, iirc) in there?
It is because they were supposed to be in but CCA was approved AFTER the OP was done. Maybe even during airing. If you have a FACTUAL SOURCE proving otherwise, post it.
>>13925949
See >>13924291
You've contradicted yourself.
>>13926421
I find that claim dubious since your writing style is very similar to a Feddie apologist who tried to propagate the lie that it was Zeon that forced the Federation into an arms race because the Papua was built to be a ship of war and not a transporter. But that's irrelevant, just like his posts were.
Your post though is just a bunch of banality topped off with 'nu huh, that doesn't count' in regards to Anime Ja Nai. I observed before that ZZ was intended to be something greater than it turned out to be but it's fall into irrelevance happened when Char's Counter Attack was green lit and Tomino was forced to make it self contained as opposed to part of the greater storyline. Then years later, you have Tomino remake Zeta as A New Translation and not only go out of his way to make sure it doesn't connect with ZZ, but have it perfectly connect with Char's Counter Attack creating a true Amuro vs Char trilogy of MGS, Zeta and CCA without the needless filler of ZZ. None of what I'm saying is conjecture, these are all straight facts. You sound like you're trying to be a smart person, even someone like you should realize that and not get bogged down in deep bias.
>>13926735
You missed the part of 'Sunrise' To where I then follow that claim to its logical conclusion that ZZ says its not anime, so it can't be considered canon under Sunrise's definition. Now conjecture would be maybe Sunrise knew what they were doing and took Anime Ja Nai into consideration when they said if it's not anime, it's not canon as a way to stealthily remove ZZ from the main timeline. We don't know, but we do have the facts that they made that statement, ZZ theme translates to 'It's not anime' and A New Translation cuts out any chance of a lead into ZZ, while at the same time seamlessly goes into Char's Counter Attack.
Also one final statement for you to chew on while you reassess your world view.It's not trolling when it's true.
>Then years later, you have Tomino remake Zeta as A New Translation and not only go out of his way to make sure it doesn't connect with ZZ, but have it perfectly connect with Char's Counter Attack creating a true Amuro vs Char trilogy of MGS, Zeta and CCA without the needless filler of ZZ. None of what I'm saying is conjecture, these are all straight facts. You sound like you're trying to be a smart person, even someone like you should realize that and not get bogged down in deep bias.
All of this shit has nothing to do with the OP. I'm not arguing anything except that the OP has nothing to do with whether ZZ is/was canon. I'm just stating that what you're saying doesn't make sense.
>I observed before that ZZ was intended to be something greater than it turned out to be but it's fall into irrelevance happened when Char's Counter Attack was green lit and Tomino was forced to make it self contained as opposed to part of the greater storyline.
Okay, so how do the lyrics have anything to do with that? Tell me why Quattro ended up in the OP. That's all I want.
>>13926849
>All of this shit has nothing to do with the OP
Once again you have your blinders on and fail to see the bigger picture. 'It's not anime' is not the crux of the argument, it's the icing on the cake. If it doesn't make sense to you, you shouldn't be so obtuse and open your mind more as opposed to create your own conclusions and then feign curiosity.
>Tell me why Quattro ended up in the OP.
Because Tomino clearly had plans to introduce him into ZZ, but when Char's Counter Attack was greenlight, that entire plan was axed.
>>13928055
>Once again you have your blinders on and fail to see the bigger picture. 'It's not anime' is not the crux of the argument, it's the icing on the cake. If it doesn't make sense to you, you shouldn't be so obtuse and open your mind more as opposed to create your own conclusions and then feign curiosity.
Don't care, I'm only arguing that your point that the OP matters at all. I'm arguing about a fault in your logic, which has nothing to do with the argument as a whole. Stay on track, please.
>Because Tomino clearly had plans to introduce him into ZZ, but when Char's Counter Attack was greenlight, that entire plan was axed.
So you're saying that Tomino went forward in time, realized that CCA would be greenlit, came back, ordered Anime Ja Nai as the lyrics, erased his own memory, put Quattro in the OP as originally planned, and then found out CCA was greenlit so he removed him from the final product? The timeline does not make sense because he is simultaneously putting within the same opening one item that shows he didn't know CCA was going to be greenlit and another item that says he did. Which all means that it couldn't have happened the way you say it did.
>There are people who actually try to argue with a tripfag
>People have been trying to argue with said tripfag for several years since he's picked the trip up, instead of ignoring him
Why?
>>13928069
The problem here is you've found no faults in my logic and as a result are desperate to misrepresent it as a means to say I am wrong. Pretty sure that's a fallacy. i just. Forget. Which. One.
Regardless, let's go over the facts again since you clearly have some form of AHDH which keeps you from concentrating.
>ZZ comes out with plans to have Char appear as an antagonist at the end.
>Char's Counter Attack is greenlit and Char's roll is given to some nobody.
>Tomino then creates the Zeta movies where the events of ZZ can't occur and the movies connect seamlessly into Char's Counter Attack.
>Sunrise states that to be considered canon it has to be anime. while ZZ's them is 'It's not anime'
Those are the facts no matter how much you want to warp the fabric of reality to say otherwise. Of course you already stated you don't care. But I'm not stating the facts for your benefit since you're clearly prefer to stay ignorant to spite me. It's for anyone who has an ounce of curiosity and an open mind to look at the facts and come to the right conclusion.I'm disappointed that you think you can shunt me into a box to win. Tactics like that would get you killed in a debate on /pol/.
>>13928084
What he said. Ya'll realize you're arguing with a brick wall, yeah?
>>13928090
Okay fuck it I'll bite.
If ZZ isn't an anime, what is it?
Is it a chinese cartoon? Is it a series of sliding sketches?
>>13928090
How many times do I have to explain this shit to you? I didn't give a shit about anything but your remark about the OP but since you are incredibly invested in diverting the argument back to ZZ being canon or not, I'll follow.
>ZZ comes out with plans to have Char appear as an antagonist at the end
>Char's Counter Attack is greenlit
>Tomino then creates the Zeta movies where the events of ZZ can't occur and the movies connect seamlessly into Char's Counter Attack
Might as well say right now that I don't disagree that ANT fits better into CCA. Obviously it's easier to build a bridge between two things thirty years after the fact and without Sunrise breathing down your neck to create another UC entry. Doesn't mean that one replaced another as canon and until you actually have proof that Sunrise or Tomino prefers ANT to be the canon your argument has no weight.
>Sunrise states that to be considered canon it has to be anime.
No, they said if it is ANIMATED. ZZ only ever says it isn't an ANIME, not that it isn't ANIMATED. Just taking the common-sense interpretation.
>while ZZ's them is 'It's not anime'
The only, ONLY "fact" you have is that Sunrise claimed that animated = canon and that Anime Ja Nai is not a coincidence. I'm saying that the two are unrelated and you have yet to prove otherwise. It IS the crux of your argument because it is your only source of proof.
>>13928226
Honto no koto sa.
>>13928231
>How many times do I have to explain this shit to you?
It won't matter, he'll never listen.
>the movies connect seamlessly into Char's Counter Attack
Except for that whole "the EF doesn't have Axis" thing...
And the whole "Where the hell is Kamille while all this shit is going on?" thing...
Really if you think about it the three series lead into CCA better than ANT does.
>canon
Not even.
They said only animated material is "official". "Canon" isn't something Sunrise really gives a shit about. There's a tv show. There's a movie. They're slightly different.
>>13928283
Should've directed those at Black_Knight. I'm only arguing the points that he has presented on his own because it contradicts.
>>13928290
>Should've directed those at Black_Knight.
I don't make a habit of arguing with walls. I was just reassuring you that he is, in fact, incorrect. There's no point in addressing him in any way whatsoever, though, because debating with him is what he *wants* you to do.
Rest assured that you are correct and let the topic sink, there is nothing to be gained by arguing with him.
>>13928283
>Really if you think about it the three series lead into CCA better than ANT does.
Not to mention that the only way for ANT to 'fit' with CCA requires a last minute OOC asspull where Haman randomly decides to abandon the Earth Sphere and the rest of Axis Zeon to blinldy follow her without Zeon's usual bloody infighting.
>And the whole "Where the hell is Kamille while all this shit is going on?" thing...
This too.
I'd also like to point out that removing ZZ actually removes what a great deal of people believe to be a major reason for Char's anger and bitterness with the world in CCA. Namely showing the height of the EF Government's venality and corruption when they capitulate to all of Haman's demands and sit by and let Neo Zeon drop a colony on the Earth.
By removing ZZ and even omitting Char's Dakar speech, the change from Quattro to CCA Char becomes even more abrupt and random going from ANT to CCA than it was in the TV series to CCA.
>>13928231
>Might as well say right now that I don't disagree that ANT fits better into CCA
I'm glad you can be somewhat rational.
>No, they said if it is ANIMATED. ZZ only ever says it isn't an ANIME, not that it isn't ANIMATED.
And what does Anime mean? Animated in a Japanese style. The 'anim'e part of 'anim'ated pof that plays a major role. Also the crux of my argument is the animation itself, I'm just using the Sunrise angle as a means to locking down those straws you seem hellbent on grasping for.
>>13928283
>>13928320
Now I'm betting this guy's the Fed Fag who thinks the Papua, is a warship. I understand why you don't want to engage me head on after I beat you like a rented mule, (Using your own sources against you no less.) But I expect you to have a bit more class and not resort to this underhanded sniping.
>>13928754
It was explained in the movie that the situation got to hot for Haman liking to capitalize on it so she opted to remove her remaining fleet away from Earth until a better opportunity appeared. Anything beyond that is just conjecture of the character, and similar questions of competence can't also be raised ZZ. Also Dakar's only reason for existing was to have the Federation disavow the Titans and weaken them. Since that didn't happen in the movies, it just meant that the AEUG beat the Titans while they still had the full backing of the Federation.
>>13928283
Haman left Axis around Earth, I know critical thinking is not one of strong suits, but bear with me. Also Kamille wasn't around in CCA, so that question is a moot point unless Sunrise demands Tomino remakes Char's Counter Attack. Also you keep thinking official and canon aren't the same thing. Check the archives, we're going over old ground. As for Char's motivation, that always boiled down to settling his feud with Amuro over him killing Lalah. If his true objective was to follow his father's wishes he wouldn't have bothered to leak the psychoframe data.
>>13930004
>Also Kamille wasn't around in CCA, so that question is a moot point unless Sunrise demands Tomino remakes Char's Counter Attack
You're missing his point. It made sense in the TV series because Kamille's mind was fried at the end of Zeta, and even by the end of ZZ he was still kind of... special. At the end of ANT he's still in a mostly intact Zeta with all his faculties, so where the hell was he in CCA?
Fuck, imagine if the lyrics writer knew how spergs like Black Knight would react in the future to a silly joke.
Tomino said the movies were a spin off.
A ZZ remake is not necessary. It's fine to have a black sheep in an otherwise superb timeline.
/thread
>>13930336
>black sheep
But every UC gundam is silly as fuck
>>13930336
Unicorn completely butchered the early UC setting
>>13930004
>And what does Anime mean? Animated in a Japanese style. The 'anim'e part of 'anim'ated pof that plays a major role.
It's the difference between something that was filmed and a film. Not everything that has been filmed is considered a film.
>Also the crux of my argument is the animation itself, I'm just using the Sunrise angle as a means to locking down those straws you seem hellbent on grasping for.
You're saying that the ONLY reason ANT makes ZZ non-canon is because it bridges to CCA better? Gonna stick to having no facts and continue basing it off of your opinion?
Good job totally sidestepping the question again and then waiting forever to reply.
I'm really looking forward to watching you explain how the OP can have Quattro in it yet proclaim that it isn't canon. Why would Tomino have the lyrics proclaim ANIME JA NAI while simultaneously animating Quattro into the OP, knowing he would never appear?
>>13930064
I see your point and it's irrelevant, Kamille clearly was recovered or recovering at a good pace at the end of ZZ. Which would put him in the same position as with A New Translation.
>>13931379
So you claim that anime is not based on animation now? By your logic that means /co/ content should be shunted over /a/, I'm sure everyone would be thrilled with that.
Let's see, made after ZZ and Char's Counter Attack, bridges the gap better than ZZ, Sunrise's statement, no statement saying A New Translation isn't canon, I probably keep going but you clearly are biased and will ignore all those facts or worse, claim they aren't valid reasons.
I've already explained why Quatro was in the OP, but you choose to be willing ignorant since in your mind, this is somehow a crack that will bring down my whole argument, as opposed to a minor point to the big picture. It does show your desperation, but I do understand why you'd preservative on it when you have nothing else left.
>>13932002
> Kamille fully competent and sitting in the cockpit of an intact Zeta Gundam at the end of the war, with literally no reason he couldn't join Londo Bell
> Shell-shocked full autismo Kamille that doesn't even talk anymore outside of emergency telepathy, running on a beach with Fa, while Zeta Gundam rides a ship to Jupiter
One of these explains it better than the other. And isn't your whole argument "that which connects better to CCA"?
>>13932024
Well it does, all I see you're doing is mindless conjecture which is the basis of your own biased argument against A New Translation. It's part of the same vein of 'Haman is a big dummy for leaving' which does not nothing to address the actual issue.
Goddammit, why is Black_Knight still here?
>>13932056
> Mindless conjecture
> Biased argument
> From the guy that's been going on about how one animation is canon and another isn't for years
> The guy who endlessly splits hairs to rejustify all his arguments
That's rich. You really are just off in your own little world.
>>13932068
Because idiots keep feeding the troll.
>>13932068
>How do I filter
>>13932088
You just described yourself in your post. I don't know why, but at least you're finally starting to be honest.
If you don't regress this might be actual progress into true UNDERSTANDING.
>>13932002
Alright so you're just too retarded to understand.
Sunrise's statement relies on the OP.
The OP relies on ANIME JA NAI not being a coincidence.
Quattro being in the OP proves the lyrics are a coincidence.
You said that Quattro is in the OP because Tomino didn't know CCA was going to be greenlit yet. Therefore he couldn't have written Anime Ja Nai in hopes that people would realize that it isn't canon. So it's a coincidence. Which means that it doesn't conflict with Sunrise's statement. Which means you have no facts.
Is this still going on? B_K is just going to ignore any argument you retards have and claim that "I'm right, because I said so". Stop taking the goddamn bait. Shit like this is the reason /m/ is such a shitfest of a board. Everyone feeds baiters, shitposters and retarded tripfags and encourages them to keep doing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ
Posting best ZZ-girl because I can.
>>13934743
I see you're going to continue to follow your own narrative regardless, could you take into consideration that situations might CHANGE? This feels like an argument on the Constitution between a strict conversationalist and those who think it's a living document. If you think the plan to make ZZ not canon was hatched even before the series was green lit, it's time to take the tin foil off.
>>13935280
>I'm just going to shitpost
If these people were going to filter me, they'd have done it years ago. If anything these people are crying out to be enlightened but fight it tooth and nail because it comes from me.
>Best ZZ girl
>Post Roux
This isn't even a subjective statement to say you have shit taste and are wrong. Or the fact that Lunar Titanium is suddenly made of paper in that scene.
>>13935949
Forgot my trip.
>>13935949
You realize you're arguing with multiple people, right?
>>13935957
And? They're all coming from the same place. A combination of ignorance and spite.
Gundam Build Fighters Try isn't that bad a show.
>>13935949
Okay, so now we've come full circle.
>>13915356
>Also if you want to appeal to Sunrise as being the final say in what is and isn't canon. That just strengthens my point further. How? Well Sunrise's stance is that if it's animated, it is canon. Now ZZ prides itself by its theme that it is not Anime. Now what is Anime? Animation. So we can assume that it's not true animation and using Sunrise's standards, not canon. And before you claim that it's asinine, I'm just looking at the evidence presented and coming to the common sense solution. Or are you now going to claim that something Tomino wrote suddenly doesn't count?
I've been arguing that common sense would dictate that you don't look that deeply into the lyrics of an anime unless there's some story behind it, like if Tomino planned the lyrics. But you keep arguing that despite it being a coincidence, Sunrise totally planned to make it non-canon because they didn't add "everything animated is canon, which includes ZZ because I know some of you folks are going to get a little confused there :^) don't worry Anime ja Nai doesn't mean shit".
Non-stop conjecture and opinions is all I've seen from you, I'm asking for facts.
And if you turned your trip off people would still fight you on these ideas because maybe, MAYBE it's the ideas they're fighting, not your personality or whatever the hell you think people associate with your trip.
>>13936058
The facts you ask for have been given, you just want to portray it as conjecture since this isn't about finding the truth for you, it's about proving me wrong. Which of course makes you more likely to slip up. There is no grand scheme that was plotted out 20 years ago, they're just building off what they already have, if you used some common sense you'd see that. Unless you have hard evidence to prove otherwise, all you can go is' My conjecture says your facts are actually conjecture and you're wrong'.
Also you you vastly underestimate how much the truth and myself are joined at the hip. If you started posting ZZ isn't canon in other threads, people would assume you were me. What would even be more amusing is if I did take off the tripcode and started posting, people would just demand I put it back on. So at this point the idea and my identity are joined at the hip to the current population.
It's not like you're going to be rid of me. The best arguement for me being banned is 'I don't like him!' All my posts are well within the rules of the board, I never actively derail threads and I almost never shitpostIf I took that route, I'd already have brought /m/ the cutting edge of shitposting from /sp/ and /pol/
>>13936903
Your only argument is that ANT fits into CCA better, therefore it replaces it in canon. That's not a fact. Sorry. You literally do not have evidence to prove otherwise.
>>13936987
>You literally do not have evidence to prove otherwise.
That's never stopped him before.
Black_Knight's powers of self-delusion are legendary. It is impossible to get through to him. It is impossible to argue with him. Probably best to just ignore him.
>>13935280
Black_Knight thinks everyone is me, the guy who was arguing, correctly, that the Papua was a warship first, since it's listed as such. His proof otherwise was: maybe it wasn't? I haven't posted in the thread in several days though (haven't checked it in just as long) since I've been getting poked, prodded, scanned, and treated for the last several days.
I had a stroke mid-week, caused by a tear in the arterary leading to my cerebellum (hind-brain), which lead to a blood-clot, which lead to a stroke - disguised as vertigo. Plus side, cute nurses. Minus side: no internet with several days till I got my phone. A stroke at 33 though. Fun times.
>>13939258
Stay safe /m/en. I'll be here much longer than most of you but I'll carry on your legacies. Don't make me do that anytime soon.
>>13939258
Ah yes, I remember that thread. One of Black_Knights more amusing 'rebuttals' (aside from copious variations of 'No U' and 'I'm right because I say so') was to post an untranslated profile picture of the Papua and claim that supported him somehow, just because.
Anyway, sad to hear about your condition. Hope you get well soon, /m/an.
>>13939287
>>13939904
Learning the confidence in my legs to walk again sucks, but I seriously think I saw the cutest woman I'll ever see in my life: like a pornstar come to life (seriously thought she was Jenna Haze for a second) even with no make-up and in a stodgy uniform. Didn't flirt with her since she's well out my league, but god damn.
So swings and roundabouts really. Plus, I'm recovering fast and can be expected to be back to normal in a week or two.
>>13939947
Anon, she's only out of your league if you believe that yourself.
Go for it man, believe in yourself and the power of sexy understanding.
>>13936028
Well, it's still better than G-reco
>>13939947
Dude, you survived a stroke and a really cute woman shows up afterwards. It's a sign. You should atleast try and talk to her. You're going to regret it if you don't.
>>13942653
I almost forgot: get well soon.
>>13904276
Either way I have to see more Puru death.
How about neither?
>>13936987
>>13937047
>Literally
I prefer figurative evidence personally since misusing the word literally is just silly. Also there is past precedence of the movie version overriding the TV one. Regardless you still haven't refuted the key parts of connecting A New Translation and Char's Counter Attack. Mainly because you can't, so you still pick at minor parts thinking everything is a keystone that will cause the whole arguement to collapse if you pick at it enough.
>>13939258
He has the same righteousness and hint of smugness as you. Plus that intellectual bankruptcy. Seeing as you all hide behind anonymity, it's a matter of convenience to just say everyone is you. Also to make you break your word you'd never debate me again after the last two shellackings I gave you, funny how you vowed not to after the first time. As for the 'untranslated profile picture' It was from one of the latest bibles. And you'd think that would be a good way to show if you were right, but you weren't. It was commissioned as a transporter. Only a feddie apologist would make a logical pretzel and say just because it transports weapons, it's a warship.
>>13939258
>>13939287
>>13939904
>>13939947
>>13940006
>>13942653
>>13942655
Regardless, Florance Nightengale delusions are not /m/, you'd think even /m/orons would know that.
>>13950096
>2-3 days
kek
>admitting you have no evidence
>admitting that you are assuming the movie overrides the TV without actual evidence (no, the 0079 trilogy is part of a different series and does not pertain to ANT, furthermore the movie trilogy was confirmed as canon by scenes appearing in CCA while ANT has not been confirmed by anything. Compilation movies are different from re-tellings)
>admitting that your argument relies 100% on ANT bridging to CCA without ZZ despite that being totally irrelevant to its canonicity
>refusing to refute anyone's points because "that's not a keystone of my argument but I'll keep bringing up the points later anyway"
>HIDING BEHIND ANONYMITY
>ON 4CHAN
W E W
L
A
D
It is actually difficult to argue with you because you run away from points of discussion and repeat the same thing over and over despite it being absolutely irrelevant. I know that's the intention but I'm going to reply anyway.
But you'd think that if you used the points in the first place, you'd benefit from defending them. Instead you dig yourself into a hole of misused info and retarded theories that only serve to make you look like a fool.
>>13950096
>Regardless, Florance Nightengale delusions are not /m/, you'd think even /m/orons would know that.
So in addition to being an idiot and a dishonest debater, you're also a sociopathic asshole. I mean, I've always suspected, what with your undying love for Zeon, but it's nice to have confirmation nonetheless.
>>13950146
I'd think you were just shitposting if you weren't being serious in your single minded goal to try and prove me wrong.Which you still have failed to produce any meaningful evidence.Here's the problem, and I've mentioned it before but you clearly have short term memory issues so I'm going to repeat it for your own benefit. You entered this debate on dishonest pretexts where your only goal wasn't to find the truth, but to beat me. So you're going to take the truth and molest it however you see fit if you think it means proving what I say is wrong. Sadly for you, you failed to do that and strengthens my arguement, unless you want to just come out and say you were pretending to be retarded. Either way, it would not reflect kindly on you.
You're also mad because I refuse to bite at any of your bait or shitposting to deviate from my main points so you can catch me in a technicality so you can proclaim victory over me. The ball is still in your court to prove any of my clams are wrong, even if they are outside the box thinking. And since you lack an official statement from Sunrise or Tomino.The closest you have actually strengthens my argument too.All you can do shitpost and say I'm wrong.
I'm just going to stay on point and chortle at you making an ass of yourself thinking it will somehow shake me up.
>>13950171
Now you're get butthurt over the fact that I'm gently reminding you to refrain from discussing not /m/ topics? We already have a board specifically geared towards the banality that was being spwed.
>>>/r9k/
Maybe if his 'stroke' caused an limb to be amputated and they gave him a robotic limb and the nurse was helping him adapt to using it. You could justify on a tertiary level it's /m/ related. But. It's. Not.
>>13950096
>Regardless, Florance Nightengale delusions are not /m/, you'd think even /m/orons would know that.
Black Knight is clearly a frustrated virgin
Point and laugh at him
>it's another argue with grandpa about whether ZZ is canon or not episode
>>13950310
And here comes the projections on sexuality since after all your counter arguments were shut down, all you can do is shitpost.
I await at whatever the currently popular shitpost is for a response. I'll also take the more antiquated 'U MAD'.
>>13950337
>'Goddamn self absorbed millennials don't know how easy they got it with their simiplied timelines. Nooo, they want diversity and make everything canon.'
>>13950352
Holy shit guys, he's mad
Sage
>>13904276
>ZZ is the UC Gundam that needs a remake and would benefit the most from it
No, I don't think so
>>13950258
>Now you're get butthurt over the fact that I'm gently reminding you to refrain from discussing not /m/ topics?
Go cry to a mod about it. It's a few posts in a sizable thread and it happens pretty frequently. It's not like you care about the quality of this board.
>'stroke'
What are you even implying here?
>I'd think you were just shitposting if you weren't being serious in your single minded goal to try and prove me wrong
Here's the thing: YOU started this.
>>13913372
>All the more reason it was retconned
That means the burden of proof is on you. It is not my job to prove that ZZ is canon, it is your job to provide evidence to support your claim that it was a retcon. All I've been doing is revealing that what you call "evidence" is not evidence. You can't just claim shit and then complain about a "technicality" when your own points don't make sense, because that actually WEAKENS your argument.
ANT leading into CCA without needing ZZ has nothing to do with how canon it is. The ONLY thing that can place ANT as the new canon is if Sunrise states that. Simply having a reference in a future animated production won't cut it because Unicorn has Purus, CCA has GM IIIs (and other mobile suits), and G-Reco has a Kapool.
So let's look at the claims from Sunrise: If it's animated, it's canon.
Your counterargument is >>13926793
>ZZ says its not anime, so it can't be considered canon under Sunrise's definition
But when I argued against it, you claimed it isn't the crux.
>>13950396
>>13950258
So in short, nothing you say is backed by evidence. The only evidence you claim to have is a highly literal interpretation of the show's theme song which was retroactively used to retcon it, despite the alternative being much more complicated for a Sunrise exec to have to explain around it than assume some foreigner will build a ridiculous argument about canonicity (when he was only really talking about officiality) around it.
>>13950396
>>13950415
>Go cry to a mod about it.
Mods have abandoned /m/ years ago, doesn't mean a little self enforcement would hunt.
>Implying implications.
At this point we've just hit a loop where I produce evidence, you say it doesn't count for some assign reason, I disagree. Repeat. Only way you can break this cycle is to prove me wrong with decisive evidence which would only come from Tomino since Sunrise already weighed in and gave Anime Ja Nai a whole new meaning.
Seeing as I got the facts on my side and all you can do is quibble and go 'nu huh', I'm perfectly fine with keeping this up indefinitely.The question is when will time start to erode your will?
>>13950565
> I produce evidence, you say it doesn't count for some assign reason, I disagree
Yes. I explain why it doesn't count (because it was not the intent of Sunrise to do so and never has been, otherwise they could've stopped including it in stories or outright said ZZ wasn't canon, but they have done neither and have furthermore never pursued using ANT's new story in its place) and you disagree and dodge any question as to why it SHOULD count in the first place. Every time you just say "stop shooting down my evidence, I know I can't defend it but you can't keep doing this to me because it's a dishonest way to argue!" and I get no counterargument. The only one running in circles is you.
>Only way you can break this cycle is to prove me wrong with decisive evidence which would only come from Tomino since Sunrise already weighed in and gave Anime Ja Nai a whole new meaning.
They never talked about Anime Ja Nai, which means they didn't weigh in. That's an interpretation, not a fact. Want some facts and evidence?
>References to ZZ in ANIMATED (aka canon) productions: Unicorn has Purus, Qubeley in flashback, Dreissen, Zssa, etc, CCA has GM IIIs, and G-Reco (by Tomino himself, no less) has a Capule pic related
>References to ANT in any form of media:
I think Sunrise has spoken.
>>13950624
By using the same standards you are trying to impose on me, you don't know what Sunrise is thinking and how they are going about deciding if ZZ is canon. The logical person would see ZZ and go 'Oh, this must mean it's not canon because of Anime ja Nai.' Because not implying that is straight up going against common sense. When they say animated, that goes across the board and not just what you want to cherry pick. If one series goes out of its way to claim it's not animated, guess what? It gets the hammer.
Also using the Unicorn justification I've seen in the past of (If it's later, it means it's prime canon.) Not true at all, that just means Unicorn follows the non-canon TV timeline that ZZ is apart of. If you want to following the breadcrumbs by saying the later it was animated, gives it precedence. We can only assume that the Origin version of Gundam is the canon version. Or since Thunderbolt just came out, that's the canon version.
Also a Kapool has been depicted with both the holes and no holes. Also the chest cannons depicted in the screen shot you posted are not close to being the same design as a Capule, they are to wide and angled compared to a Kapool who's canons are more in line with what you posted. So you're evidence doesn't hold up to scrutiny, unless you want to claim it's an animation error, to which I'd just say it can cut both ways.
You blew it
How can ANT lead into CCA when Char clearly died in ANT?
>inb4 He could have lived.
So now we're defending Char doing Seed bullshit?
>>13907369
I really don't want to see his obnoxious laugh animated
>>13950096
>Seeing as you all hide behind anonymity, it's a matter of convenience to just say everyone is you.
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwww laddies
>this autistic argument is still ongoing
Jesus christ
>>13953601
>The logical person would see ZZ and go 'Oh, this must mean it's not canon because of Anime ja Nai.' Because not implying that is straight up going against common sense.
Alright, you want common sense?
Excerpt from the lyrics:
>Our world
>cannot be looked into
>through the glasses of common sense.
>You old Earthians who forgot dreams.
You cannot apply common sense to ZZ or its opening. Sorry. Either you take the whole song literally and say "It isn't anime, but I can't follow the common sense conclusion of it being non-canon" or you can ignore its irrelevance like literally everyone does.
>We can only assume that the Origin version of Gundam is the canon version. Or since Thunderbolt just came out, that's the canon version.
They're actually being very careful not to include anything that would retcon 0079, which means that they are technically canon. You can't cherry pick which series Sunrise says is canon or not. If it's animated, it's canon unless Sunrise states otherwise.
>Also a Kapool has been depicted with both the holes and no holes.
Gonna need proofs.
>Also the chest cannons depicted in the screen shot you posted are not close to being the same design as a Capule, they are to wide and angled compared to a Kapool who's canons are more in line with what you posted.
Unicorn had slight, SLIGHT changes to minor aesthetic details in some suits. Compare it to the original line art. Pic related, line art is exactly the same.
You blew it :^)
>>13953941
Now this is a commitment to autism and where things get fun.
First off you're trying to dissect the meaning being lyrics, which shows a clear bias if you don't just do everything at face value. Second, 0079 would be retconned as well if Thunderbolt or Origin would take over as the prime timeline. But you make it sound like I'd take umbrage with that if that's the way things go. It would be interesting to see Thunderbolt as the new canon to see Zeon still continue to fight the good fight for Independence. Or Origin because it does a much better job of fleshing out the Zabis.
As for the whole Capule vs Kapool, you've just opened pandora's box since your entire argument to discredit something from canon is that is just needs a slight change from the original. So now you've put yourself into a fun little situation since the Kapool from Unicorn is clearly different from the one in ZZ based on the chest barrels, meaning they clearly can't be the same ones from ZZ, as a result Unicorn can't be a considered a canon follow up to ZZ. Personally I hope you don't consider that, but if you do decide to rebuke that, you're just going to write off the Kapool in G-reco as an animation error, similar to the ones made in Unicorn.
Better luck next post.
>>13954269
>First off you're trying to dissect the meaning being lyrics, which shows a clear bias if you don't just do everything at face value.
No I'm not, I'm talking it at face value. You can't apply common sense to it. When Sunrise stated that animated = official/canon, you said that common sense proves Anime ja Nai should be taken at face value, but if you're taking it at face value, the song states that common sense does not apply. I'm literally taking it at face value, no interpretation of my own here. I'm just following your logic exactly how you want it.
>Second, 0079 would be retconned as well if Thunderbolt or Origin would take over as the prime timeline.
Only the parts that are animated are canon, so if they're only doing backstory in Origin it doesn't conflict. Same with Thunderbolt, they're adapting the stories to fit snug with the animated series instead of re-imagining it. I don't really care how you feel about it, that's just what Sunrise is doing.
shitpost #1/2
>>13954334
>Having the audacity to say you're just shitposting now.
Now that's just be brasin and cocky that the mods won't ban you for opening saying you shitpost.The sad thing is, they won't act. Oh, how /m/ has fallen.
sorry about the wait desu
>>13954334
>>13954416
>pic is from a game, not a screen from the actual anime
I fucking knew it, no proofs.
>you've just opened pandora's box since your entire argument to discredit something from canon is that is just needs a slight change from the original.
I am not arguing for discrediting something from canon. My argument is that later works, including one (after he made ANT) show evidence of following ZZ timeline instead of ANT, which is basically Sunrise and Tomino's way of confirming which is canon.
>So now you've put yourself into a fun little situation since the Kapool from Unicorn is clearly different from the one in ZZ based on the chest barrels,
Top fucking kek this is what you are reduced to.
Unicorn, using a different artist, ended up having slightly different looks about it in every single suit. Might as well say IGLOO or Origin makes 0079 non-canon for adding different aesthetics to the Zaku.
>meaning they clearly can't be the same ones from ZZ, as a result Unicorn can't be a considered a canon follow up to ZZ.
Actually they can in the same way that, like I said above, IGLOO can animate Zakus with slightly different aesthetics and not devastate canon.
>Personally I hope you don't consider that, etc etc
But you there are no animation errors on that Capule.
I'm shitposting just by entertaining your retarded argument :^)
>>13904276
Because Unicorn isn't getting a remake.
>>13954426
If i wanted to go down the rabbit hole, since lyrics don't matter about a show that claims it's not anime which results in it not being true animation. We could start to argue that since video games movement has to be animated, it can fall under Sunrise's definition of canon. Yes, we could go there and there's nothing you can do to stop that because you can't say that's wrong on a technical level. Regardless that's just a minor point to show the Kapool has been depicted in multiple ways.
Regardless while you aren't intending to discredit something from canon, the end result to your argument clearly ends with things being removed from canon. Either ZZ and Unicorn. By claiming the artist made changes and it shouldn't be taken into account. I could make the same argument that it was the artists for G-Reco that make the Kapool look like Capule. Also you're the one making the observation of aesthetics, so now if alternations are okay. I could just claim the Kapool looking like a Capule is an animator's error. And based on what you've written, you can't refute that assertion.
Also you seem to forgetThe Kapool could still exist in the movie timeline, they just were never deployed since Axis Zeon's invasion never occurred in the Movie Timeline. Similar to how you saw the Gaza-D, originally a ZZ exclusive suit in the movie, but never saw it deployed. We'd have to ask Tomino for clarification.
If you intend to just shitpost, you've already lost. But you aren't the first shitposter I've put into their place, and you won't be the last.
>>13954470
>since lyrics don't matter about a show that claims it's not anime which results in it not being true animation.
You can't take it at face value because the lyrics tell you not to take it at face value.
>We could start to argue that since video games movement has to be animated, it can fall under Sunrise's definition of canon. Yes, we could go there and there's nothing you can do to stop that because you can't say that's wrong on a technical level.
http://otakurevolution.com/content/gundam-what-sunrise-thinks-is-official
>Watanabe: Regardless of whether it’s part of the formal mythology or something that Sunrise oversaw, the basis of what counts as “official” is whatever is in the footage.
>Okazaki: What about footage for the games?
>Watanabe: They’re just game demos.
These statements were made in 2001 by the way. Can't take ZZ vs ANT into account.
>Regardless that's just a minor point to show the Kapool has been depicted in multiple ways.
Then show me a picture from canon.
>your argument clearly ends with things being removed from canon. Either ZZ and Unicorn.
No, they can both be canon because of differences in animation STYLE, not a change in design. You can take tiny liberties when updating a design, but you cannot make it look exactly like something that already exists.
>By claiming the artist made changes and it shouldn't be taken into account. I could make the same argument that it was the artists for G-Reco that make the Kapool look like Capule. I could just claim the Kapool looking like a Capule is an animator's error. And you can't refute that.
Actually I can. Watch me.
You cannot conflate an intentional change in style that changes one small protrusion of a chest bump with an animator working directly under Tomino fucking up and completely changing one mobile suit to another.
>Also you seem to forget The Kapool could still exist in the movie timeline,
Or maybe you can't use it to defend your argument because that's speculation
>>13954543
That just sounds highly pretentious.
Also he uses the term 'official' not canon. That's a major difference since Canon means the accepted truth while Official means recognized as existing. You can check the archive, since this was a debate already held in the past if you wish to try and refute me there like others tried to.
G-Reco's Capule is the example. No, you can't use style as an excuse for making a major change like that to the Kapool. That's like giving the Zaku 2 eyes and claiming it's just a minor stylistic change. The only justifiable reason to make changes to an existing design would be to make it so that the its size and shape are consistent. But there is no reason to change the Kapool's launchers like that unless you intentionally wanted to create a deviation. So of course that boils down to you incorrectly claiming you can't conflate style changes to animation errors.
I'm just giving you some extra food for thought since animation errors or intentional choices to alter designs aren't speculation
Since this thread has turned into is ZZ still canon pissing match and getting the last word in.
What would be the best way to update ZZ to fit the current state of UC?
A completely new show/ova/movie that has a new cast and setting?
A compilation movie trilogy?
Something else?
Something I am curious about, what was the eleven's reaction when it come out and what is their attitude towards it now?
Stop responding to this delusional fuckstick, for the love of Christ.
He lives in his own world, or maybe he doesn't even believe a word he says and knowing that everyone here is so set against him he seeks to incite arguments and pull legs, and you're willing to indulge him?
>>13954583
Stop lowering the quality of this thread with your uncalled for personal attacks and shitposting.
Also I forgot to mention that if Thunderbolt or Origins overrides Mobile Suit Gundam, it just means either of those respective timelines become the prime timeline. Again, just because it's not canon doesn't mean it ceases to exist. As I said before, a reset button would do Gundam good since no one really cares about late UC and we had this major retcon of ZZ. A fresh perspective is sometimes a good thing.
>>13954557
>That just sounds highly pretentious
>logic is pretentious
>Also he uses the term 'official' not canon.
Read it, it says that officially in context is basically canon. Unless you know more about the nuances of the original Japanese than the translator did.
How about a source for when Sunrise claimed that everything animated is canon then?
>G-Reco's Capule is the example. No, you can't use style as an excuse for making a major change like that to the Kapool. Correct.
>The only justifiable reason to make changes to an existing design would be to make it so that the its size and shape are consistent. But there is no reason to change the Kapool's launchers like that unless you intentionally wanted to create a deviation.
Or you want to make it look a little nicer which is all that happened. Unicorn's updated style of older MS still clearly shows them as the same MS from earlier series. It is not meant to be a deviation at all. It's simply looking at the same exact entity through a slightly different lens.
>So of course that boils down to you incorrectly claiming you can't conflate style changes to animation errors.
Of course? Of course what? G-Reco's Capule matches ZZ line art perfectly. This has nothing to do with Unicorn choosing to update designs, which it did for a hell of a lot more than the Capule. Shit, even if Unicorn DID deviate (it didn't), it has nothing to do with animator error because it is consistent with line art.
>>13954592
Was I talking to you?
Oh, I wasn't? Speak when spoken to. And you're one to talk about lowering thread quality when all you ever do is yammer on about how you don't think ZZ's canon and belittle anyone who doesn't think the same way.
Both as bad as each other.
>>13954592
The quality of this thread went off the rails as soon as you stepped in.
No one likes you, and no one wants you on the board. Your delusional arguments derail threads and your useage of a trip is increadibly arrogant. Every single time people have proven your inane points wrong and yet you insist that only you ever bring up any avidence. Sage.
And before you say anything, no, I'm not the same anon you just responded to.
>>13954592
I don't know how many times i've said this, but nobody in Sunrise, or in nipsland for that matter, care about canon. ANT is like one of the alternate endings to a videogame.
Also, ANT is shit. I have no idea why you even try.
>>13954592
There are no such things as prime and secondary timelines. There is simply canon and non-canon. Origin and Thunderbolt were non-canon until animated, they were a reimagining and an alternate universe. When Sunrise adapted them into animation, they became canon. All three are canon at once until one animated part directly conflicts with another, at which point Sunrise will have to make a statement directly but they're very careful not to have to in the first place.
>>13954598
>>13954603
>>13954610
Meanwhile all you do is continue to hijack the thread as a means to launch personal attacks rather than talk about ZZ.Yes, talking about if ZZ is canon is still discussing ZZ[./spoiler]. The fact that I rile you guys up so much over stating simple facts is really telling.
If I upset you so much, you could, god forbid, just filter me. Out of sight, out of mind and it would probably do your health a favor rather than getting mad over stuff posted on the internet that conflicts with your worldview.
>>13954616
Alternate universe means it's a secondary timeline by virtue of the name itself. That's why Sunrise uses the term Official over canon. Because if you make them all canon, then that means they somehow co-exists and dimensional crossings could occur.
>>13954633
I don't give the slightest shit what your stance on ZZ is, I'm directing my anger at you because not only do you have the gall to claim that the thread quality is being 'lowered' by others when you're in it, but this is all you do.
No-one asks you to or you wants you to spit your inane drivel, and yet like a moth to a flame whenever ZZ is brought up, there you are, regurgitating the same old shit you've said for years. It's all you ever seem to do, besides wanking off the space Nazis whenever you get leeway.
That's precisely why I assumed you don't really believe a single word you type and everything you post is deliberately inflammatory, because unless you have nothing else to live for beyond taking fiction too seriously and starting arguments with faceless strangers, no man can be so delusional as to cling to those same stale points for, what, half a decade? More, maybe?
>>13954633
I meant in context of Universal Century obviously.
>>13904276
>Why Unicorn and not ZZ?
Or better yet why no Crossbone Gundam*
>>13904276
Remake?
Like SEED?
No.
>>13954743
>NEVER EVER
>>13954743
I doubt it will happen the Crossbone Gundams already have kits and RDs. A lot of the mobile suits from Jupiter are probably really hard to make into kits, and I'm not sure Bandai wants to do any more series in the later UC.
I just finished Zeta and will start ZZ soon, but I've read that it's better to wait before doing that because of the tone change. Which UC OVA should I watch now before ZZ?
>>13955901
IGLOO
>>13955901
War in the Pocket, really lightens the mood.
>>13955910
>>13955903
Let me guess, those two are the most depressing ones, right?
>>13955961
IGLOO, not really.
Pocket, yes.
>>13955961
Let's just say GOD OF DEATH GOD OF DEATH GOD OF DEATH GOD OF DEATH GOD OF DEATH GOD OF DEATH.
Also, let's go get some hamburgers later, yeah?
>>13954642
These are interesting assertions, but what it all boils down to is the fact that you have a vendetta against me and it wouldn't matter what side I take in an argument, you'd still fight me tooth and nail because you disagree with my style of debating and not the substance.
Also seeing as you're stating a blatant falsehood that needs to be corrected. I make sure if I engage in a thread, that, for the most part, what i say is relevant to the topics at hand. A good current example, how many ZZ threads are currently been up on /m/ since this thread has remained active? How many I have posted in? Protip, more than a few. That's why I'm not a troll, if I really was just looking to rile people up, I'd start posting in any ZZ thread and shifting the discussion over to the fact it's not canon. But I don't. There's a reason that for all the years I've posted here and for all the people who want me gone, that I've never been perma banned. It's because like it or not, I follow the rules and stay on topic.
Also, gal is not the right word, you're thinking of guile.
>>13954662
Thebest way to tackle UC's deviations on the same events is that there are separate timelines within the Universal Century. Think of how DC and Marvel has a multiverse to help create cohesion between the various tellings of their characters. Just that in the case of UC, there is a dominate timeline as opposed to all of them having equal weight.
>>13956026
Only MS IGLOO 2 which shit on everything that made the original great.
MS IGLOO is depressing because you see an idealistic greenhorn transformation into a cynical veteran over the course of the war as his group is used and abused, and the moment things look like they're looking up, the other shoe drops and fate shits in their cornflakes again. You really see this in first and third episode.
>>13956540
No, he's thinking of (and writing) gall.
>>13956540
>ut what it all boils down to is the fact that you have a vendetta against me
Not him, but no.
I don't have a vendetta against you as a person, I just habitually attack stupid statements. Whether or not those stupid statements come from you is incidental. You just believe that people are targeting you as a person because they keep responding to stupid statements that you happen to make.
Don't believe me? Take off your trip and people will attack your stupid statements just as often as when you have it on.
>>13956540
>substance.
Which your 'debating' has none of, consisting entirely of parroting old 'points' and furiously masturbating to fictional Hitlerites.
But please, carry on doing what you do in every ZZ thread you post in, which is pollute it with crap.
>>13956026
Death god is IGLOO 2 which is pretty crummy aside from the second episode.
IGLOO is a damn good OVA that is criminally underwatched because "muh CGI".
>>13956580
I could, but I'm sure more than a few responses would be 'put your trip back on Black_Knight' Hence why you're wrong and posting anonymously would change nothing. I'm just calling it like I see it. If you really just thought I was a git, you'd have filtered me years ago, but instead you keep coming back, like a moth to the flame.
>>13956583
Those 'points', if they haven't been refuted, which they weren't, are still valid. That's how facts work in real life. The only one polluting these threads are you people by making it about me, rather than the actual topic. And then you have the gall to blame me for the fact that you're going off topic.
>>13956579
Guile is still what he's thinking.
>>13956540
>Thebest way to tackle UC's deviations on the same events is that there are separate timelines within the Universal Century. Think of how DC and Marvel has a multiverse to help create cohesion between the various tellings of their characters. Just that in the case of UC, there is a dominate timeline as opposed to all of them having equal weight.
HEAD CANON
E
A
D
C
A
N
O
N
>>13956655
Seeing as Surnise never use the word 'canon', only 'official' how else are you going to have multiple series telling the same events reconcile the differences without on overriding the other?
>Can't even shitpost correctly
Foiled like a slowpoke combo poster.
>>13956583
don't forget black knight justifying zeon's use of nuclear/biological/chemical weapons on entire colonies because he thinks it's efficient and effective
not even zeon will canonically own up to it, they shifted the blame onto "rogue commanders acting on their own"
>>13956666
HEAD OFFICIAL
E
A
D
O
F
F
I
C
I
A
L
>>13956640
No, I'm pretty sure it's gall, given that it matches the context far better than guile. I'm sure he'll be happy to clarify himself though. Well, anon?
>>13956671
No, guile is far better in that context.
>>13956680
I seriously doubt he meant to say Black_Knight has sly or cunning intelligence.
>>13956680
You don't accuse someone of "having the guile" to do something you think they said is bad, you accuse them of "having the gall" to do so, because that's what the phrase means.
>>13956640
No, it's gall, you numbskull. Like how you used it, in your own fucking post.
>>13956640
>Those 'points', if they haven't been refuted, which they weren't, are still valid.
>he never replied to >>13954595
So are you admitting defeat, Black_Knight? Do you have nothing more to say? Or are you going to dodge out and later claim you beat me in an argument?
>>13912278
People would buy the quin mantha or whatever alongside whatever Chara soon was piloting near the end if they had kits.
>>13956640
>If you really just thought I was a git, you'd have filtered me years ago
I did, and probably will again. But I routinely wipe and reinstall OS on my laptop and also have occasion to wipe my cookies.
To put it bluntly, you're not quite important enough for me to diligently keep you filtered.
>>13956717
Well I have to deal with 3 or 4 people at once, yes some posts would inevitably slip through the cracks. Don't let it inflate your ego though.
Either way, time to show some more guile.
>>13954595
But what you said wasn't logical, don't take it at face value because the lyrics say not to then that would mean you're taking them at face value? Good job in creating a paradox.
That is extremely subjective, if you went from say Mobile Suit Gundam's designs to Unicorn, you MIGHT be able to justify some changes. However by the time of ZZ, Mecha designs had enough dimensional weight there was no need to alter them to make them coherent. The changing of the chest barrels couldn't be something to make it look nicer, and as a result, it's a clear deviation.
Also, of course it does. G-Reco's Kapool went back to basics, as opposed to making deviations unlike Unicorn's Capule which clearly altered the design even though they claim it's the same units used in an earlier series. Until you get definitive proof that it's a Capule, and not a Kapool, you can't without 100% confidence say it's a Capule. Especially after what Unicorn did.
>>13956780
That just means you clearly like me enough to keep responding to my thoughtful posts than opting to just outright ignore them even without a filter. So I have some importance in your heart. That's so sweet, in a twisted sense.
