Well, That was pretty underwhelming
That's fair.
How could this have been a better movie?
>>13680077
remove quess as the main character
inb4 char doesn't make sense
inb4 I hate quess/hathaway
>>13680077
Make this a TV series like intended? I thought it was fine. Portrayal of Char is brilliant. I'd rather have this than 20 episodes of it with Judauas main character.
>>13680733
I feel like I'm the only person on the planet that likes Quess.
>>13680077
>bring back more characters from previous Gundam series instead of a shitty new cast of literal who
>a longer running format so the story isn't rushed to shit
>make it more directly related to events in Z and ZZ
>>13680762
I don't mind Quess either. But Hathaway's still a shit.
>>13680733
And with the stupid Alpha Aizeru gone, throw in a couple Doven Wolves to act as midboss. Those things were too rad to be left only to the last couple episodes of ZZ.
>>13680077
Change the ending
>>13680776
At least the movie came out before Bertolchika's Children inflicted Nightingal upon humanity. It's kind of ironic how bad it looks considering that Sazabi it supposed to replace is one of the pretties looking ones. No a big fan of Hi-Nu either, Nu looked better too.
>>13680039
>the most hamfisted deus ex machina resolves the plot
fuck this gay movie and fuck Char's stupid nonsensical philosophy
>>13680039
>People watched this for the story
I just did what I did when I watched F91, look foward to robots beating the crap out of each other with good animation, gundam doesn't work well in stand alone movies.
>>13680828
I still don't understand the Nightingale.
It's so big.... such a massive target, and yet no I-field to protect it from ranged attacks. It has melee weapons, but the range of motion would be severely limited by its design, if not in the movement of the arms than in the movement of the weapons themselves. I don't get how it represents Char in any what whatsoever.
>>13680918
Didn't they only retconned i-fields into 0083 which came later? Well I guess Nu can form one with Fin-Funnels.
![51P3KYPM3VL._SY300_[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/B0FxCiX.jpg "51P3KYPM3VL._SY300_[1].jpg")
>>13680942
No. I-fields existed since 0079 but were forgotten promptly after 0083 for whatever reason.
>>13680963
Big Zam is so based
>>13680963
I see. I probably forgot because it didn't look like glowing ball.
>>13680039
>Well, That was pretty underwhelming
Watch the new series, Iron-Blooded Orphans, that will wash out the awful taste.
>>13680755
Because he didn't.
In the past Char wanted everyone to move to space so Earth would be left alone to preserve its beauty and humanity would become space wizard's, an unrealistic goal but a noble one.
In CCA Char wanted to throw shit at earth causing another Ice age or some shit, Which would of caused an evormental nightmare with the extinction of many species of plants and animals. and he didn't even give fuck
They fucked his character
>>13680039
aww did the 30 year old movie disappoint you?
>>13681277
Yep. The orginal gundam was older but also good.so I assumed a movie would be good. but it wasn't. it was dick, and not the good kind
Every other day this fucking thread gets posted everytime some moron watches CCA for the first time and gets assblasted that Char is, was and always has been a philosophically bankrupt loser.
>>13680963
Psyco and Psyco Mk II are supposed to have them. Quin Mantha had a fancy reflective i-field.
I-fields are pretty much massive MA only until Unicorn.
>>13681295
>>13681246
Dude, we've been over it a million times.
>>13680039
Make it a tv series instead. Don't have the film start with Char just being in control of Neo-Zeon. Make it be ZZ.
>>13681246
The whole point of inducing the ice age was that it would get humans off the planet so it could recover. He straight up says that the earth will be able to recover on its own. If Humans never leave then it will eventually get past the point of no return, but by dropping the asteroid he does a fair amount of initial damage but in the long run it will be better off. Presumably by the time the earth is inhabitable again humans will all be space wizards and will know better.
Now there is good reason to be skeptical of the space wizards bit, but that is true for Chars ideals in Zeta as well.The difference between Char's politics from Zeta to CCA is only one of means, not ends.
>>13680762
Quess did her job in the story superbly, so did Hathaway.
>>13681621
they did but they were godly annoying
>>13681673
Kids are annoying and get in the way, and yet they are the future. Depressed Tomino keeps things real.
>>13680077
Kill Hathaway.
>>13680077
If it would have more focus on Chan, Nanai, Rezin, Astronage, Gyunei and other secondary characters. We should know their motives and their past.
>>13680942
>Didn't they only retconned i-fields into 0083 which came later?
Yes. I-fields in 0083 were a retcon.
>>13680963
>No. I-fields existed since 0079 but were forgotten promptly after 0083 for whatever reason.
Yeah because the Big Zam was fuckheug and needed one and even the Big Zam couldn't work for more than 20 minutes.
>>13682033
Only a couple of months before 0079 begins beam weapons were huge things only full on battleships could mount. Miniaturized systems are nothing unusual, and honestly it's more surprising it was basically forgotten than that it'd be so small only a few years later.
>>13682033
I hate their retcons in silly attempts to make Gendum more, I dunno "serious"? Like when I saw funnels in Gundam Movie Trilogy I was like "fuck you".
>>13682189
>when I saw funnels in Gundam Movie Trilogy I was like "fuck you"
Because you could't see them in the show?
>>13682207
I'm pretty sure those were guided psycommu-missiles. I remember actual things flying into targets. Unless I'm insane.
>>13682216
>>13682220
Well, just looked at that part on youtube with what I assume is Thai dub. I guess that when beams hit mobile suits at first you can't see what is shooting so I assumed those were guided lasers (as outlandish as it sounds) coming directly from the enemy and funnels I considered to be separate weapons and then I just forgot about them. Looks like I was the faggot all along!
>>13681613
It's amazing how people struggle with what you just said, it is pretty simple and obvious. Tomino may write weird at times but most of his points are very direct
I think it is because people want Char to be a good guy so much they forget to see what is really there
>>13682377
Ironic, given that we know from documentation that Tomino wrote Char in both 0079 and Zeta with the specific intention of having him redeemed in the end. Char's Counterattack is the only one where he was written to be a villain from the start. And surprise, surprise, it's the one people have the most problem's resolving his actions and personality in.
I have a friend that basically told me why he liked it. Basically it's one long battle. Like The whole thing. Also being a really big fan of 0079 he really like the idea of going back to basics and sorta ending the conflict of Amuro VS Char. I kinda disagree. I only got into UC earlier this year when me and a bunch of my friends watched Unicorn. So I really liked 0079 and ended up liking Zeta, hell I even liked ZZ more than most people. ZZ was still fucking shit. So to sit through fucking Kamille not getting into the robot for half of Zeta and ZZ sucking balls I was REALLY looking forward to CCA. And it dropped the ball. The final confrontation between Sperglord and Pedo was fucking terrible. I was really boring.
>>13680077
Change the ending.
Remove Quess.
Remove Hathaway.
Add a young girl and former prostitute as Char's lover so that he's finally happy for once. Sure, it'll change his reasoning for rocking the Earth, but it'll be better than his boring jaded self.
>>13682314
He means there were funnels in the damn show. Lalah flew the Elmeth. The first thing to use funnels
>>13682476
> sorta ending the conflict of Amuro VS Char
Zeta already did that, and did a better job of it to in my opinion. When they meet again in Zeta several years after the events of the One Year War they've both grown accustomed to what transpired to some degree and are more concerned with their own shit than with each other, so they end up as weary soldiers and wary allies trying to move on with their lives. It's anti-climactic compared to Char's Counterattack but is far more plausible and has far more pathos in my opinion than seeing them dredge up the past again 7 years or whatever down the line and start screaming at each other about Char's mommy issues.
>>13681613
>2015
>there are people on /m/ who still don't know this
Why
>>13681613
The problem is that's fucking stupid. So stupid that it becomes impossible to accept the other flaws of the movie, thus making it into a circus of flashy battles and idiocy
>>13682115
>Only a couple of months before 0079 begins beam weapons were huge things only full on battleships could mount. Miniaturized systems are nothing unusual, and honestly it's more surprising it was basically forgotten than that it'd be so small only a few years later.
A retcon is a retcon. Doesn't matter how 'believable' it is. Tominio wrote CCA under the premise that only fuck-heug mobile suits could use it. The Psycho Gundam didn't have one either.
>>13682189
>I hate their retcons in silly attempts to make Gendum more, I dunno "serious"?
They don't want to design something actually new and better so they threw i-fields on 0083 suits. Plain and simple.
>>13682966
Who cares if it's a retcon? What matters more is if it makes sense and most of all, whether it's good/cool. The i-fields might not make sense in context with Char's Counterattack, but they do make more sense than Char's Counterattack insisting that i-fields are still huge things only mobile armors (and never ships for no real reason) can mount even 14 years after the One Year War. It's also cool, which is about the most important thing. Especially in 0083, where cool fights are about the only thing it has going for it beyond the production values.
> They didn't want to design something actually new and better so they threw i-fields on 0083 suits. Plain and simple.
That's the dumbest theory I've heard about 0083. There are quite a few reasons they might have done it, many of them that don't paint them in a good light. Laziness of that kind is not likely to be it. It's more likely they just didn't care about the continuity and wanted to their own thing, not that they were too lazy to design their own thing (never mind that they were already designing their own things to mount i-fields too and that regardless of what they "invented" they'd still be forgotten afterwards since neither Z, ZZ or CCA would include them regardless).
>>13683000
>That's the dumbest theory I've heard about 0083. There are quite a few reasons they might have done it, many of them that don't paint them in a good light. Laziness of that kind is not likely to be it. It's more likely they just didn't care about the continuity and wanted to their own thing, not that they were too lazy to design their own thing (never mind that they were already designing their own things to mount i-fields too and that regardless of what they "invented" they'd still be forgotten afterwards since neither Z, ZZ or CCA would include them regardless).
Why would technology be forgotten? That's the dumbest theory I ever heard. The reason there's no i-field in Z, ZZ, and CCA is they are designed for things as big as the Big Zam and require a lot of power. Only Banrise throws i-fields on mobile suits, not Tomino who actually understands what he's doing since, idk, he MADE GUNDAM? You are one dumb cuck, anon.
>>13683010
> Why would technology be forgotten
I meant that if they made up some new energy shield technology like you said they should have that it'd disappear after 0083 and be forgotten about in Z, ZZ and Char's Counterattack so it'd be at least as bad as the i-field situation.
> they are designed for things as big as the Big Zam and require a lot of power
They're highly unlikely to stay that way, even for 15 years. Especially in a setting where every other related technologies are moving as fast as they are and where defense becomes a major war due to the proliferation of beam weaponry.
> not Tomino who actually understands what he's doing
Sure, just like he understands that O'Neill Cylinders come in pairs to counter each other's rotation, that reactors aren't and don't work like bombs and so on. Tomino is as fallible as other people when it comes to technology and even if he knows some of that stuff himself (and he's learned much of it over the years even if he wasn't aware at the time), he ignores some of it for the sake of drama himself because that's more important than perfect scientific accuracy or continuity.
> He MADE GUNDAM
Not alone he didn't. And even then, he wasn't entirely happy with it and made some retcons with the film trilogy himself.
>>13682464
But Char's most popular rendition was him in 0079, when he was a villain. Tomino got pissed at that and made him into a villain again in Char's Counterattack, which was approved about halfway through Zeta's run. In fact Char was meant to be in ZZ as an underling of Haman's who would betray her and battle against Judau. It's when CCA was approved that things began changing in terms of his characterisation. The latter half of Zeta is a lot about Quattro becoming Char once again, with the speech at Dakar, his confrontation with Haman, and his speech on the stage to Haman and Paptimus.
>>13683066
>They're highly unlikely to stay that way, even for 15 years.
Not even that guy, but if you think practical miniaturization of cutting edge technology generally happens within the span of two decades then you need to read a fucking history book.
>>13682505
Yeah, I meant that I rechecked the series. Maybe I didn't understand that it were funnels because it was the first time I saw them?
>>13682505
Actually, they are bits, not funnels.
>>13683347
Practical miniaturization of beam technology happened much faster in 0079 already. Minovsky beam weapons were only invented about a decade before the show begins and were miniaturized from battleships to mobile suits within that time frame. I-fields work on many of the same technologies and yet while minovsky reactors, guns and swords were all successfully made smaller and smaller, the i-field never shrunk at all. Not one bit. And was never fitted to ships, despite them being large enough to mount them and desperately in need of defense from mobile suits.
>>13683337
Glemy was supposed to be Char?
>>13683432
Yes, that's why Glemy's development is so erratic in ZZ.
>>13683337
> But Char's most popular rendition was him in 0079, when he was a villain. Tomino got pissed at that and made him into a villain again in Char's Counterattack, which was approved about halfway through Zeta's run
> It's when CCA was approved that things began changing in terms of his characterization
I'd dearly love to see some kind of credible source for this commonly accepted series of events (at least as far as when CCA was approved anyways), because I suspect that it Bandai basically looked at things and went "eveyone loves Amuro and Char so we want you to write a new thing where they fight again" and that Tomino did it because that's his job and not because he actually had any interest in doing that with Char and Amuro himself. Char's Counterattack is basically setting them up to be just like how people commonly remember them in 0079 and running with it.
> Char was meant to be in ZZ as an underling of Haman's who would betray her and battle against Judau
Well he wouldn't have betrayed her since, like Garma, he never considered Haman his ally in the original script and was working with her with a specific eye on killing her when the time was right since he didn't trust her to lead Zeon. He only battles Judau as a way to secretly train him. His major act is killing the EF heads, not killing Haman.
> The latter half of Zeta is a lot about Quattro becoming Char once again
I'd say it's pretty ambiguous really, and that's why I'd love to know properly who wanted CCA made in the first place and when it was approved, because things like the Dakar speech and the stage thing at the end make far more sense to me as Char becoming a better person (like the script originally called for) than as him slipping in to old habits (like CCA called for).
>>13682882
In real life there are people who think that creating a totalitarian state will eventually grant them total freedom and prosperity. Congratulations, you've realized that revolutionaries are usually fools, now get in the Jegan and shut up.
>>13683466
The thing that tipped me off was when Char admits that using cyber newtypes is necessary in Zeta. Even after all the tragedy we see with it in the show Char still says that ultimately it is worth it. Anyone who thinks that cases like what happened with Four are a fair trade for the realization of their political ambitions have a pretty good chance of deciding to join the longheld UC tradition of throwing massive objects at earth.
I think that the stage scene is unambigous ( well as much as a scene like that can be) about showing that Char has several different conflicting sets of motivations and desires( the multiple shadows). His character since later in 0079 has been about reconciling that emotionally damaged side of him with his father's borrowed ideals. We see him in 0079 getting distracted from his goals to kill the Zabis and spread Deikunism for his rivalry with Amuro. In Zeta he sabotages a political alliance he needs to make because he gets so mad at Haman over Minerva. In CCA he sabotages his chance to go through with his plan by stroking his ego by giving Amuro tech to match him with.
Through all of UC Char is consistently a man with personal demons trying to live up to a set a
political ideals, with the former constantly getting in the way of the latter. In this he is totally consistent. A Char who is completely redeemed and found his way isn't Char imo.
This is why Char has some many identities, they all are and are not him at the same time. Char can never actually take off the mask because there isn't a solid unified person in there to begin with.
>>13683466
>(like the script originally called for
Stop spreading misinformation. People like to blurt out so many ideas of the original plan with no proof, we have little idea how things originally went outside of the general idea of CCA was the end of ZZ. It's all rumours from years ago that have become facts in people's minds
Honestly you sound like a Char fanboy not able to live with him being an awful lying scumbag
>>13683577
>The thing that tipped me off was when Char admits that using cyber newtypes is necessary in Zeta
>Through all of UC Char is consistently a man with personal demons trying to live up to a set a
political ideals, with the former constantly getting in the way of the latter
>This is why Char has some many identities, they all are and are not him at the same time.
These
>showing that Char has several different conflicting sets of motivations and desires
People really struggle with this. A human can have conflicting ideas and emotions, they can act irrationally and act to complete one goal while hoping the other will work out even if it takes longer.
>>13683577
>Char can never actually take off the mask because there isn't a solid unified person in there to begin with.
We see the true Char at the end of the movie as he is just a little boy seeking a mother to guide him into the future. This is why the AXIS SHOCK happened because Amuro and Char finally understood each other.
>>13683577
> The thing that tipped me off was when Char admits that using cyber newtypes is necessary in Zeta
I see nothing disagreeable in that statement. He's not saying that he thinks kidnapping people off the street and turning them in to soldiers like Four is acceptable, only that cyber newtypes are a better alternative than waiting for nature to make everyone a newtype. And he's right. Any such treatments are going to need guinea pigs and end up with failures, and in the case of humans probably ruined lives. I still think it's an acceptable loss so long as you mitigate those losses properly. There's nothing inherently scummy about what Char is saying in that scene.
> political ambitions
Char doesn't have political ambitions. He has social and philosophical ones, not political ones.
> I think the stage scene is unambiguous
> multiple shadows mean conflicting motivations and desires
The thing about that scene for me is that it makes no sense to me that if Char really doesn't believe in the things he professes to believe in to Haman that he would say it straight out and risk getting shot and killed by her. If he was conflicted or pretending then it'd make far more sense to simply lie like he always has and use his charisma to get out of that situation with minimal risk than to aggravate Haman by refusing her outright.
> In CCA he sabotages his chance to go through with his plan by stroking his ego by giving Amuro tech to match him with
Someone a few months back proposed the idea that he does that not because of his own ego so much as because he respects Amuro both as a rival and as a one time ally so much following 0079 and Zeta that he doesn't want to face him as anything other than an equal. Which I like. It makes sense to me and falls in line with the picture of Char that emerges when taking all 3 productions overall.
>>13683626
> A Char who is completely redeemed adn found his way isn't Char
That's certainly true now looking back after Char's Counterattack, but it could have very easily gone differently and personally I'll always be a bit sad about that. I'd have much preferred that ZZ get made as originally envisaged. Char might not have been as complex in that outcome, but I think it'd have made for a better overall story and would have made any subsequent UC shows more interesting by default since the original ZZ would have wrapped up the Earthsphere conflicts pretty tidily and set the stage for Earth/Mars wars with a historical connection to the Zeon era through Judau.
>>13683620
> original plan
> no proof
http://pastebin.com/0SkxGTUt
> Honestly you sound like a Char fanboy not able to live with him being an awful lying scumbag
I've no problem with the fact that that's what he turns out to be when taking Char's Counterattack in to account - only in dismissing the idea that he could never have been anything else and was always being set up to be that Char when we now know (and it was pretty apparent all along due to minor inconsistencies) that he was originally going to be different.
>>13683637
>http://pastebin.com/0SkxGTUt
That is fake you know as the source is apparently a picture book.
>>13683637
>, but it could have very easily gone differently
Any character could have gone many different ways given many different circumstances, both from how the author feels to higher powers. You realise this happens all the way through making a story right?
They didn't, it went this way so your interpretation is incorrect
>>13683622
I don't buy that we can reduce Char to that, I agree that that is something important about him, but I don't think we can set up his different personalities in a hierarchy where there is just "one true" side of him. Axis shock could have easily just been the psycho frame reacting to all the concentrated newtype power- regardless of what they were actually saying to each other. It is left vague though so who knows, you could be right about that.
>>13683626
One could rationalize about how dropping Axis on earth is an acceptable loss since earth will be able to recover and humanity will turn into space wizards because of it, and that there is nothing inherently scummy. Both show that Char becomes an ends over means type guy.
>Char doesn't have political ambitions. He has social and philosophical ones, not political ones
Fair enough, a certain kind of politics follows from that, but I suppose so as long as the politics followed the newtypeism he would be fine with what ever.
>The thing about that scene for me is that it makes no sense to me that if Char really doesn't believe in the things he professes
He really does believe in that stuff, one side of him does at least. Scirroco is calling out the existence of the other side as well, the side who is actually more self interested and willing to act the same way Haman and Scirroco do. Being conflicted and pretending are worlds apart here.
>Someone a few months back proposed the idea that he does that not because of his own ego so much as because he respects Amuro both as a rival and as a one time ally so much following 0079 and Zeta that he doesn't want to face him as anything other than an equal.
That is still his own personal desires getting in the way of his more grand ideals. I do think that that interpretation is plausible though.
>>13683626
>I see nothing disagreeable in that statement.
It is better to make people go insane? No seriously everyone they put through that comes out super damaged and by the end of the story dead. Char had seen this a few times, he had felt their fucked up minds hell there was one deranged one on the ship. People always say ends justify the means until it is something which effects them personally
No that is a disagreeable statement.
>>13683669
I'd love to know where you're getting the idea it's a picture book, because the Amazon page lists is as a character and mobile suit book, which sounds far more likely to be a data book to me.
>>13683683
> Any character could have gone many different ways
Most characters aren't twice over planned to have a redemption arc and written towards that redemption arc for extensive parts of a show before being swerved in to a different arc each time and ending a third time on said different arc.
> You realize this happens all the way through making a story right?
This particular set of circumstances? Not so much. The general idea, yea. Never said otherwise.
> so your interpretation is incorrect
What interpretation? All I've ever said is that he was originally being written towards a certain end and that only Char's Counterattack has him ever written purely towards a different end. I've flat out said that I have no problem with how he ends up when taking Char's Counterattack in to account and that it's existence necessitates viewing other events differently. My only point is that I want to know when Char's Counterattack was set up and who wanted it, because as is I feel like even the end of Zeta could be taken to be him being set up for either of those things and isn't definitely written towards Char's Counterattack in my opinion.
>>13683731
>Most characters aren't twice over planned
actually yes, most character do have plans that are scrapped and looked at again. You are obviously not a writer
>>13683414
Money? What makes you think they had the fucking money to do that?
>>13683709
> One could rationalize about how dropping Axis on Earth is an acceptable loss since Earth will be able to recover
I'm sure they could. I think you have to be being intentionally obtuse to not see a difference between medical experiments that may turn out some bad results using consenting individuals with a constant eye towards mitigation and Axis drop though.
> a certain kind of politics follows from that
My point is more that politics are just a means to an end for Char and he has no interest in them as their own pursuit.
> Scirocco is calling out the existence of the other side as well
And I'm saying that there's really nothing to indicate that that's anything other than Scirocco's own ego and inability to believe that anyone could ever actually hold and follow higher ideals and not be a selfish dick like him and Haman and not any actual reflection on Char himself.
> Being conflicted and pretending are worlds apart here
If he was even conflicted though, there's no reason he'd be so dead set on risking himself in my opinion. He'd be more likely to simply try to play her like he's played plenty of people before her when he's feeling conflicted.
>>13683717
> No seriously everyone they put through that comes out super damaged
Except Gyunei, the one cyber newtype Char turns out.
>>13683747
Name me five that have definitely been changed from one specific arc twice over in the space of two shows or less then.
>>13683758
They had the money to do everything else, and they definitely had the motive to want to miniaturize it given the proliferation of beam weaponry.
>>13683773
>Except Gyunei
You call that angry bastard stable? The guy who gets crazy jealous of char and basically stalks Quess? The guy Char is able to easily emotionally manipulate?
>>13683832
He's a teenager (19), of course he's jealous and emotional. It's the same reason that Quess herself is. He acts far more rational and stable than Four or Rosamia though, who acted like outright children or mental patients at times.
>>13683481
Except since it's both Gundam and Tomino any semblance of insight about the world is amusingly hamfisted and warped by the laughable character drama.
Why do I even watch this shit?
>>13680765
CCA stands on its own, go to A wakening of the Trailblazer if you want a film tied down by the gravity of its fanservice
>>13684580
Desperate need to fit in with people you'll likely never meet in real life?
>>13684580
What Mecha anime is actually any better ?
![07[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Xba4oWl.jpg "07[1].jpg")