>In Japan today, animated TV shows filled with all kinds of fancy, robotlike ,mechanical creations are all the rage. I have certainly drawn lots of mecha, or mechanical things, myself. but the general theme in currently popular shows seems to be that the protagonist jumps on a giant machine he couldn’t possible have created on his own, battles the enemy in it, and then boasts about winning. I frankly hate these kind of shows. I don’t care what types of robots are featured. For me, in a truly successful mecha show the protagonist should struggle to build his own machine, he should fix it when it breaks down, and he should have to operate it himself.
>Hayao Miyazaki, 1979 (Starting Point)
Do you agree with him, /m/?
>>13623980
No, not at all. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad concept, but to say it's bad because he didn't build it himself is stupid. That's like calling all the soldiers in armies idiots because they didn't build their tanks or jets.
>>13623980
You heard it here folks, Build Fighters is the best Gundam entry.
>>13623980
What he described is definitely a formulaic trope that I'm sick of in mech anime. His logic is silly, as >>13623996 pointed out, but from a character development point of view, I think he's right. It's time to abandon that cliche.
>>13623996
>That's like calling all the soldiers in armies idiots
Guess what Miyazaki does in his spare time writing essays and talking in interviews.
>>13623980
He's just salty he was never as good as Tomino, Go nagai, Ishikawa, Nagahama or even Imagawa
>>13623980
Well, that's pretty stupid.
>For me, in a truly successful mecha show the protagonist should struggle to build his own machine, he should fix it when it breaks down, and he should have to operate it himself.
This is one of the few times I've ever had the reaction, of saying do it yourself then.
also I think I've seen that show.
>>13623980
So, Build Fighters?
>>13624042
>>13624005
>Miyazaki's preferred Gundam show is literally a toy commercial
>>13623980
>1979
So he's talking about MSG then? I wonder what Tomino's response would be.
I would love to see something like what he describes, but the typical mech stuff existing is not a detriment to his idea, nor vise-versa.
Dismissing an entire style of show because it doesn't have one extremely specific element you like is ridiculous. It's like getting mad at heavy metal music because it doesn't feature saxophones played in A minor by a 12 year old Chinese boy during Passover.
If he made an attempt at understanding the appeal of the style, I would be more forgiving. The same as if he gave no reason at all. We don't always understand why we don't like things. But a bullshit answer like this feels almost like an attack on the style and its fans simply for being the way they are. Miyazaki's made some good shit; Princess Monoke was probably my first anime and I still think it's a GOAT movie to this day, but I'm glad that no one gave a fuck about his personal opinions at the time and kept making good shows.
>>13623996
>>13624042
I think Miyazaki would completely agree with that. He doesn't like war, he loves creativity and kid protagonists, Sei even says that the fact that their lives aren't on the line is why they can fight to their fullest. Build Fighters would probably fare more favourably in his eyes than a literal mecha show about a protagonist who builds and maintains his mecha like Megas XLR.
>>13624063
Maybe he just really, really likes Iron Man.
>>13624063
Did Amuro boast about winning?
>>13624063
>I wonder what Tomino's response would be.
He would call Miyazaki a pedophile in denial who pioneered the "cute girls doing cute things" genre into the disgusting escapist state that it is today, and would laugh at him for his inability to find any kind of successor or influence anyone like Tomino did.
>>13624120
He wouldn't be completely wrong, either.
>>13624120
I think one of my favorite things I ever read tomino say was him calling Miyazaki a lolicon.
>>13624131
Didn't he go on a drunken rant about being in love with a 12 year old girl?
>>13623980
He should go back to selling buckets of chicken.
>>13624138
Was it ever said if Nausicaa built Maeve or someone else did? She's certainly capable of maintaining it herself, though.
>>13624153
Well, he does have an obsession with panty shots in his movie.
>>13623980
Nausicaa is guilty of every single of those things, old man.
>>13624182
It's pre-apocalypse tech if I remember correctly.
>>13623980
>Pilots should also be engineers because i feel like it
Meanwhile in real life pilots cannot build aircraft, astronauts cannot build spaceships, fucking Miyazaki.
>>13624178
>>13623980
>For me, in a truly successful mecha show the protagonist should struggle to build his own machine, he should fix it when it breaks down, and he should have to operate it himself.
Actually, that sounds fucking great.
>>13624182
It's a relic from the days before the 7 days of fire, like her Gunship. She just maintains it.
>>13624238
WTF: it takes a whole team of techs to keep a plane flying.
It is impossible for ONE person to do maintenance on a jet.
Maybe in the 1920s a pilot could do it but those modern machines are kinda complex.
Hell Gibli made Porco Rosso. Pig didn't build his own plane either.
>>13623980
Miyazaki is such an idiot. Not to mention he makes the most mediocre anime you've ever seen.
>>13624423
I want to go all the way with this "Miyazaki should make what he's talking about" analogy and say that he should produce the entire show by himself. A truly engaging anime needs to have been written, storyboarded, directed, produced, designed, drawn, animated, voice acted, promoted, licensed, trademarked, released, distributed, aired, merchandised, and funded all through the work of one lone man.
Fuck Miyazaki for directing anime that he couldn't have possibly created on his own and then boasting about his talent as if the rest of Ghibli doesn't exist.
>>13623980
Sounds like my dad's philosophy of owning a car.
>>13624447
>Miyazaki sux because he said mean things about muh child porn
>>13624120
>and would laugh at him for his inability to find any kind of successor or influence anyone like Tomino did.
He did.
But then the guy died in a car crash
>>13624498
That is some Grade-A projection goin on there. How the fuck did you manage to reach that far without dislocating every joint in your body?
>>13624498
Looks like someone got so triggered they had to post a blatant lie about what was said. Btw your precious miyazaki is a pedophile, faggot.
>>13623980
Boasts? Where does this even happen outside super robot shows where everything's meant to be overthetop ridiculous? Most protags are PTSD'd out.
>>13624423
>Hell Gibli made Porco Rosso. Pig didn't build his own plane either.
The scene that bothered me the most in Porco Rosso is how Porco just casually manages to put all the parts of his wrecked airplane into a boat by himself after Curtis turned it into Swiss cheese.
>>13624509
You're projecting too.
>>13624518
>super robot shows where everything's meant to be overthetop ridiculous
Another retard who only knows about SRs through parody shit I see.
>>13624518
This was in 1979, when Super Robots were the only ones that existed (at least until MSG that year).
Even then, passionate cries are not the same as boasting, so I have no idea what Miyazaki is smoking. Obari should have went to work for Ghibli and taught Miyazaki how to power your mecha through your kokoro.
>>13624530
Do you want me to post timeoffatso.jpg?
Why the fuck is everyone getting so riled up by OP's bait? He said this in fucking 1979. Back then he was a communist who despised America and everything about it. Miyazaki's changed a lot as a person since then.
>>13624553
>Back then he was a communist who despised America and everything about it. Miyazaki's changed a lot as a person since then.
It's not necessary to be a commie to hate America. In fact, most nips actually do it but they know it's impossible to get rid of them. Japan is cursed to be an American colony until the end of the western civilization and the new boss will probably be China, a nation that openly hate Japan.
>>13624530
Does it say anywhere in my post that ALL SR shows are like that? Stop jumping to conclusions that's something children do.
>>13624540
That's what I am getting at. Like it's not even common enough to be cliche.
>>13624579
I wonder who from anime openly likes America.
>>13624553
>Back then he was a communist who despised America and everything about it.
He still hates America, with the exception of John Lassetar.
/o/tist here. While it is kind of ridiculous to expect a mech pilot to build and fix his machine completely by himself, especially if it's using new technology, it's also really dumb you get a kid pilot who is somehow magically able to pilot a robot as good as or better than veteran pilots (newtypes top kek) and who also knows fuck all about maintaining the robot.
Hell, I'm by no means a mechanic, but I at least understand how my car works, how to do routine maintenance (change the oil, perform brake jobs, etc) and fix small problems. You'd think that a mech pilot would have some basic maintenance knowledge at the very least.
>>13624591
Hard to say. Most people around the world see America as a bully and they're pasive-agressive about it. Hollywood and the official propaganda insist that the world see Americans as freedom fighters but that's as fictional as Santa Claus
>>13624591
Well she just sings OPs. but Akino. She must, she lives in Utah.
And if Watanabe doesn't, he at least likes the music that came from here (jazz, hip-hop).
>>13624603
Who COULD hate John Lassetar?
I mean Cars 2 was bad, but it doesn't negate all the other Pixar movies he made.
>>13624605
>/o/tist here. While it is kind of ridiculous to expect a mech pilot to build and fix his machine completely by himself, especially if it's using new technology, it's also really dumb you get a kid pilot who is somehow magically able to pilot a robot as good as or better than veteran pilots (newtypes top kek) and who also knows fuck all about maintaining the robot.
Jean from Nadia was a kid genius and make gadgets by himself. It's just stretch the concept a little more. Also, a sci-fi setting can help a lot. There are other examples like Steamboy
>>13624618
There's a difference between liking some American stuff and like America in general. Hell, many western otakus are very racist toward Japan and despise it as a nation but they still love its cartoons. See "Japan can only make anime. They suck at everything else" and similar comments.
>>13624605
I'm actually having a hard time thinking of mecha protagonists that DIDN'T have some part in building and maintaining their own mecha. Kamille designed the Zeta, Amuro added the magnetic coating to the RX, Kira programmed the Strike's computer, etc.
>>13624605
This post has to be bait.
>it's also really dumb you get a kid pilot who is somehow magically able to pilot a robot as good as or better than veteran pilots (newtypes top kek) and who also knows fuck all about maintaining the robot.
Never read Ender's Game? Or Dune? Or anything else sci fi with child protagonists developing in a particular manner which makes them almost messianic in a way?
>Hell, I'm by no means a mechanic, but I at least understand how my car works, how to do routine maintenance (change the oil, perform brake jobs, etc) and fix small problems. You'd think that a mech pilot would have some basic maintenance knowledge at the very least.
Really? Not everyone is an /o/fag and knows how to do shit with their cars outside driving them. But they do drive them. Most protagonists of mecha shows aren't fans of mecha/war the way you are of auto stuff so they don't particularly give a shit.
>>13624618
Add onto that, Mari Ijima. No one lives in LA for 26 years when you're not poor unless you choose to.
>>13624641
It's not bait, it's just a very angry waifufag
Macross > Gundam, confirmed!
>>13624063
>So he's talking about MSG then? I wonder what Tomino's response would be.
Tomino used his psychic powers to tell Miyazkis future , selling his soul to Disney
>>13624579
Yeah Japan needs the US pacific fleet.
>>13624093
>I think Miyazaki would completely agree with that. He doesn't like war
very true , he's critical of the Japans right wing militarism which I can understand and respect
>>13624704
They wouldn't need it if America let them have a real army after the end of the occupation.
>>13624709
That's what we're trying to do now with Abe. Unfortunately, most of the Japanese public (including Miyazaki) is under the delusion that their country will be fine without any military whatsoever right now, because they're so used to us wiping their ass for the past half century.
>>13624719
>That's what we're trying to do now with Abe
Actually, that's one of the biggest issues on Japan. The people have never had a real participation on the government, it has always been the elite choosing for them. Arguably it's worse now because the elite is a puppet of the American government. At least China's elite doesn't have to answer to Washington.
>>13624727
>the elite is a puppet of the American government
well no shit , they cant trade with any nation without U(S)Ns okay
>>13624742
The UN is a fucking joke
>>13624744
UNs been a joke for decades
>>13624719
To be fair, Miya-san and the old folks are still traumatized by the war and Japan doesn't believe in therapy so they had to endure it and rebuild the nation only to see how the young generation throw all their hard work to the garbage. Old people never miss an election and Japan takes muh filial piety very seriously
Joking aside, it's amazing that Japan has always been a great nation despite the incompetence of the elite, generalized corruption, wars, famines, natural disasters, a fucked up culture that punish creativity, the atomic bomb, etc.
>>13624790
>great nation
In what fucking way are they a great nation? Their birth rate is in rapid decline, they're the most racists country out there, and their people support a work-heavy collective culture that cultivates one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Japan is a very awful place to live.
>>13624811
>the most racists country out there
Most racist Asian country, I mean.
>>13624813
There are countries in Asia which murder people for being the wrong ethnic group or arbitrarily decide they're all "illegal immigrants" (despite their ancestors having been in there for centuries) and mass deport them to a neighboring country where they speak a similar language.
Japan's not perfect, but it's a functioning first world country and a lot worse is out there.
Does scrapping together salvaged parts count as making your own mecha? I feel like Chirico is pretty knowledgeable about what exactly makes a scopedog tick.
>>13624825
Hasn't Japan done stuff like that with Ainu and various Chinese or Korean immigrants?
>>13624882
Pre-WWII, yes, but this is mostly about post WWII Americanized Japan.
>>13624285
Yeah this sounds like a nice thematic element
It shouldn't and couldn't apply to every show, but it'd be nice. It'd develop a good relationship between the protagonist and his mech. Give the mech an ai so you could have a boy X dog relationship.
>>13624882
So did most of the world back then
Why hasn't Miyazaki made a proper mecha movie yet?
>>13625398
Because he hasn't made a proper anime movie yet.
![[gg]_Valvrave_the_Liberator_-_03_[BE1ED705].mkv_snapshot_05.32_[2015.04.25_19.17.05].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2R6ZbaS.jpg "[gg]_Valvrave_the_Liberator_-_03_[BE1ED705].mkv_snapshot_05.32_[2015.04.25_19.17.05].jpg")
>>13624591
>>13624605
>it's also really dumb you get a kid pilot who is somehow magically able to pilot a robot as good as or better than veteran pilots
Most mecha series with kid pilots do have them sucking ass at first and being carried by their OP robots, or they're literal child soldiers.
Amuro had the fucking Gundam manual on his lap while he was piloting for the first part of 0079 and literally only survives because Zeon didn't have beam weapons on their mobile suits yet. The only reason Cosmo and friends don't all die right away is because the Ideon is carrying them with overpowered bullshit for 3/4ths of the show until the Buff Clan gets their shit together. Etc.
Yeah and Rodger Federer should build his own racket, what a cunt he is for celebrating when Wilson did all the work for him
Though I would like a series with a mechanic as the Main Character
>>13624021
What about Kawobunga?
>>13624377
BUT MIYAZAKI HATES THAT SORT OF THING!!!!
>>13625442
I feel that this "new protag pilot shouldn't be better than veterans" is a massive miscommunication landmine. However, people who bring up example of, say, "X pilot was carried by Y machine" aren't entirely wrong either.
The problem is that when people state their dissatisfaction with kid pilot prodigies, what they want to see by "veteran" are throwaway goons like the two Zaku pilots in 0079 kicking around the Gundam and winning and that the pilot has to be bailed out in his first fight, faceless but pilots by profession, whereas when /m/ brings up examples to counter that, their in-mind definition of "veteran" is someone on the minimum of a "named ace", like Char. Veteran AND exceptional as opposed to just "been clocking the hours on my contract for five years".
>>13623980
Why do you keep posting decades old Miyazaki quotes here all the time?
>>13624618
>Who COULD hate John Lassetar?
>I mean Cars 2 was bad, but it doesn't negate all the other Pixar movies he made.
Lassetar has become a shill in a way that makes even Anno look like some kind of isolationist auteur by comparison. It's also embarrassing how he completely ignores all anime except Miyazaki's.
I do partially agree with what he's saying, if you make the pilot someone who took a significant part in the creation of the robot, whether in designing or actually building it as part of it construction team there's a better emotional connection between the pilot and the robot, funnily enough didn't camille design the zeta?
>>13625462
Because he was right all along!!
>>13623980
Miyazaki confirms Megas XLR as the greatest mecha ever made
eat shit nipokeks
Megas XLR confirmed for Miyazaki's dream mecha show.
>For me, in a truly successful mecha show the protagonist should struggle to build his own machine, he should fix it when it breaks down, and he should have to operate it himself.
I could be remembering this wrong, but didn't this sort of happen in Dragon's Heaven? At least at first? The mecha was broken down and she repaired it or something.
>>13625580
>>13625577
It makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Megas XLR is obviously based on car culture. Japanese Mecha seems to not understand car culture at all and treats the mecha as some sort of superhero god thing instead of an actual mechanical thing. If that makes sense.
>>13624507
>muh projection
You faggots say this way too much
>>13624021
Nigga please.
Kouji Kabuto built his own frigging spaceship.
And wasn't Gai in Go the one in charge of repairing the Getter machines?
>>13624811
>Japan
>Great nation
Top kek.
Even back then, China considered Japan as an uncivilized backyard with a bunch of dwarven (wa) thugs and pirates.
>>13625423
Yeah, he's made art movies.
>>13624641
>Never read Ender's Game? Or Dune? Or anything else sci fi with child protagonists developing in a particular manner which makes them almost messianic in a way?
You're missing the point, he's not saying it's necesarily incoherent or it can't be handled right, he' saying it's dumb, which it is.
>>13624811
>Their birth rate is in rapid decline
So is most of Western Europe
>racists country out there
So is most of Western Europe and the USA
>one of the highest suicide rates in the world
Not even in the top 10.
A kimono wearing otaku social studies professor and hikikomori was teaching a class on Asian History.
"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Emperor Akihito and accept that that the Japanese are the most highly-evolved human beings that the world has ever known."
At this moment, a sagacious, filial, scholar-gentleman who has scored ahead of 150,000 students in the Civil Service Exams and understood the full extent of the barbarity of those living outside Zhongguo held up a copy of the Nihon Shoki.
"What are the characters written upon the pages of the Nihon Shoki?"
The arrogant professor smirked, tightened his hachimaki, and smugly replied "Kanji, you baka."
"True, Kanji, which loosely translates into "Han characters." To be precise the Nihon Shoki is written in Guwen, which is Classical Chinese script. If the Japanese are indeed perfect human beings then they would have come up with their own culture & civilization as opposed to just borrowing from the Chinese or from anyone else."
The Professor was visibly shaken and dropped his calligraphy brush and copy of CLAMP's Cardcaptor Sakura. He stormed out of the room and tried to commit seppuku like in his animes.
The students applauded with a big "wansui!" and all signed up with the Popular Uprising that day and declared that the scholar-gentleman has the Mandate of Heaven. A dragon named "All Under Heaven" flew into the room and coiled around the Chinese flag and magically turned it yellow. The Analects was read several times, and the Jade Emperor himself showed up and enacted territorial seizures of disputed territories around the country.
The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of complications caused by an erroneous performance of the seppuku ritual and went to Diyu, where he is tried, found guilty, and punished by the Ten Yama Kings of Diyu.
>>13626002
>Western Europe and USA are the most racist countries out there
I love this meme
>>13625993
>Even back then, China considered Japan as an uncivilized backyard with a bunch of dwarven (wa) thugs and pirates.
>hey mom, I skimmed through a Wiki article, now I'll go make a stupid comment on the Internet
Stop embarassing yourself, anon
>>13626031
>USA
>candidate with the largest republican voterbase support is the most xenophobic candidate in forever
>massive amounts of anti-Muslim sentiment based on fear-mongers and disinformation
>the whole BlackLivesMatter movement even having to exist
>police brutality targeting blacks specifically
>Western EU
>racist parties like the FN in France, the PVV in the Netherlands, and UKIP in the UK are gaining supporters faster than any other parties, not to mention Poland refusing migrants, Hungary literally building a fence along its borders, Denmark also tightening its migration policies to stop the evil darkies
Look at your own faults before pointing out ones in others.
>>13626150
But none of that stuff counts because I say it doesn't and Fox News anchors agree with me so I'm right.
>>13624811
>being racist
>bad
Opinion detected
>>13625982
Yep, Gai Daido was devoted to the Getter and originally wasn't meant to be a pilot, but he loves the machine more than anyone else, except the other mechanic.
>>13626150
>Any of those parties
>actually racist
>implying
You're a fucking retard.
>>>/tumblr/
>>>/co/
>>13626212
Way to throw a temper tantrum when someone doesn't agree with you, /pol/. You must be doing some serious gymnastics if you think far-right, populist parties like those, who are mocked and despised by most sensible people with an education, are not racist.
>>13626150
Merkel please, poor countries have enough domestic problem of their own all they need now are some migrants
Seriously letting those krauts unite again was the biggest mistake ever Thatcher was right about everything.
>>13626150
>boarder security is racist
>no series about a tinkering teenager struggling to fight monsters or other dangers in cobbled together power armor he has to constantly fix and improve
It'd be neat
>>13626150
>whines about some right wing parties
>justifies BLM aka BPP 2.0
....
>>13626009
funniest one of these I've seen so far
>>13626224
>start two world wars
>violate neutral countries so you can sneak attack undefended boarders and for other purely strategic reasons
>genocide 6 million people because you can't accept that you lost a war
>put Lenin on a train and pretty much cause the USSR
>attempt to dissolve entire nations through means of genocide, slavery and kidnapping their children to raise them as Germans
>decide immigration policy for the entirety of europe and attempt to punish countries that object to a sudden influx of thousands of people from a sectarian warzone with no checks to make sure they're not insane religious fundamentalists who'll happily blow themselves up
I think we have to accept by now that letting the Krauts live was a mistake. The Yanks nuked the wrong axis power
>>13626262
We should have just kept them separated tearing down the wall was a mistake.
>>13626269
We should ask Trump to build a wall around Germany. Keep the squareheads separated from the human race
>>13626262
You forgot the part where months after they reunited they started destabilizing a certain southern European nation causing it to collapse into total civil war.
>>13624591
Yuu Asakawa
>>13626287
I can't list everything bad the germans have done.
>>13626313
To hell with them
>>13626349
Especially that House of Hanover.
>>13626369
Agreed.
>>13626376
My Jacobite nigga.
>>13623996
Yes, they are idiots.
>>13626248
>justifies BLM
I'm not saying it's justified, I think they're a bunch of loudmouthed idiots going about things the wrong way.
I'm saying that it should even need to exist in the first place, but institutionalised racism in the US is sadly still alive and kicking.
>>13626391
>institutionalised racism in the US is sadly still alive and kicking.
Which institution has the racism? What civil rights granted by the bill of rights do blacks not have that everyone else does? What civil services are granted to everyone but blacks?
A bunch of voters having a racist opinion =/= institutionalized racism. If it was within the institution, we wouldn't have a black president.
Also take your politics to /pol/ nothing you've said has anything to do with mecha.
>>13624153
>I think one of my favorite things I ever read tomino say was him calling Miyazaki a lolicon.
I really need to see that.
>>13626218
>UKIP, Far right
>Republicans, Far right
>implying
Do you know that UKIP's largest voter base is of Indian descent? And that Douglas Carswell, the only UKIP MP refers to immigrants as "first generation Britons", UKIP is far from racist, or populist with literally one MP you fucking idiot.
Front Nationale hasn't had a semblance of racism ever since they kicked out Jean Marie. Hungary supporting it's national borders and making sure illegal immigrants are arrested and refugees actually obey the law isn't racist at all. "Oh gee, if we just let these people break our laws to get into our country, they're sure to respect our other laws" You fucking mongoloid. Anti-muslim isn't racist because Islam is not a race, it's an idea that transcends race, Indonesian Muslims, Arabic Muslims, African Muslims, and Caucuses Muslims are not all of the same race whenever it suits your political narrative you disgusting bastard. They're different people from different places with different cultures and histories. If anything, you're a fucking racist for thinking you can just lump them together.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-02-25/yoshiyuki-tomino-shares-his-appreciation-for-the-wind-rises/.85310
>>13623980
>boasts about winning.
Didn't Amuro get decked by Bright when he suddenly began doing this?
