Muv-Luv
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
Schwarzesmarken now has a PV with some actual animation in it. The animation appears to be all from the first episode only though. Is that because they only want to show the first episode, or are they actually behind on the animation schedule and the first episode is all they have ready to show?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRTHb6WyebM
>>13598639
>Is that because they only want to show the first episode, or are they actually behind on the animation schedule and the first episode is all they have ready to show?
>Do initial PVs that generally almost always show footage from the first episode show footage from the first episode just because?
Is this an actual question?
>>13598651
PVs don't necessarily always show footage from the first episode alone, and the last PV before this one had no footage at all, that's worrying.
BETA were already beyond Germany in 1983, what's going on here?
>>13598695
they still try to desperately hold the line in SM but its a lost cause
Why don't they just give everyone shotguns and teach them circle strafing like in my DOOMs?
>>13598639
>or are they actually behind on the animation schedule and the first episode is all they have ready to show?
This is almost always how it is
>>13598742
>circle strafing a swarm
Yes, I'm sure that won't end badly. Have fun dealing with those tanks that latch onto your back.
>>13598639
those faces have some QUALITY
>>13598695
they retcon the map in the all age version,
So who was in the blue Takemikazuchi?
>>13600140
It's DaiNippon Teikoku Konoe Shidan Dai-Taisho Ikaruga Takatsugu-sama you kuso baka heimin.
What are Schwarzes VN's sales numbers like?
>>13600140
Wasn't it Kyoko?
>>13598639
>the trailer posted by the Japanese company has more English comments than Japanese comments
Flop of the season spotted!
>>13598639
>Are they falling behind on the animation schedule?
ixtl has little experience in animating tv series, so I'm 99% sure this is true. Sanzigen have their original anime airing soon too.
>>13600581
japs don't like commenting to be honest
>http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-12-08/sanzigen-reveals-bubuki-buranki-tv-anime-cast-staff-story-january-9-debut/.96225
Can we assume Sanzigen will be too busy with their own anime to spend more than a minimal amount of time on Schwarzesmarken?
>>13600680
Yes. Expect Schwarzes to be shittier than TE.
>>13600287
Number one selling VN for November/December.
>>13600973
Was another VN released in the same time though ?
>fripSide
Why.
>>13600979
Take a wild guess.
>>13600979
>>13600973
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestsellers/software/689136/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_sw_1_3_last
>>13598639
> More muvluv
I can't for the life of me understand why.
>>13600995
For the same reason you get more of anything; there's money in it.
>>13600995
>More eva
>It's the same as always but worse
I can't for the life of me understand why.
>>13601005
Though the Rebuild are total shit except for animation.
Now that I think of it, the SM anime will probably be the opposite ( Assuming they don't fuck up the story and characters ) : Everything will be kind of good, excpet for animation.
>>13601005
For the same reason you get more of anything; there's money in it.
>>13601005
Eva made a shitton of money and everyone and their mother knows it. It made a big splash in the 90s, and they have been trying to make lightning strike twice with the Rebuilds.
Muvluv... I don't think has ever been good. The best recommendations for it always go like "these parts are totally awesome, just ignore all of the really shitty parts before and after them."
>>13601011
I don't know, the CGI here seems actually pretty good.
>>13601027
It got better over time though, Eva had been the opposite, 3.33 was downright insulting, I don't ever want to see anything from this franchise ever again.
>>13601027
>I don't think
There's your problem. Nobody gives a shit what you think, especially not the people who keep making more Muv-Luv. All they care is whether or not the money comes in and aim to appease then fans while tipping their toes with expanding it once in a while.
>>13601034
I won't be sure of it as long as I don't see more than the first episodes.
Do I need to watch the first tv series to understand this? Or wade through the VN?
>>13601098
No, but you should read the VNs anyway.
Avoid Total Eclipse like the plague.
>>13598796
>not strafe jumping to safety
pleb
>>13601098
>aliens attack earth
>they are literally designed to make mechs viable
>it's really just an excuse to make countries fight each other with robots
>germans as written by nips
that's all you need really
>>13601178
>they are literally designed to make mechs viable
The use of Mecha to fight the Beta has way more to do with the humans of Muvluv being really stupid than any properties of the Beta themselves.
So what merch do you think we'll get to tie into the anime? Figures of the girls are a given, probably a Nendo or two.
Personally, I want a Beato Figma.
>>13601185
Explain
>>13601186
I want a super high quality Beato figure, together with her MiG 23
>>13601185
They're were better anti-BETA designs on the table, but America went with the current TSF designs because they wanted to have a good ol' fashioned world war after the BETA were dealt with for all the G-Elements.
>>13601186
>>13601188
>wanting a figure of worse girl
I'll never understand Beatrixfags.
>>13601200
Worst girl is Annette
>>13601186
>Beato Figma
Oh god, my dick.
Considering TE got a fair lot of GSC and Koto stuff ( 3 nendos, 2 figmas and like 10 PVC ), all the hopes are up. Especially when a lot of Japanese are fans of Beato, so we are kind of guaranteed to not get only Irisdina ( Even if she will probably get considered as the main " heroine " ( Urgh ) )
>>13601194
>YF-22 vs YF-23
That's not what he's talking about, anon, he just wants a 300+ post chain about helicopter/gunship superiority.
>>13601205
>Helicopter/Gunship superiority
Friendly reminder that the TSF were designs while the fight was always on the moon.
How exactly do you want to make an helicopter fly on the moon ?
>>13601203
Beato's the main heroine of BiS though. She gets way more screen time then Iris. Really, most BiS readers seem to be Beatrixfags while those who just read the originals tend to be Irisdinafags.
>>13601202
Annette isn't a turbo cunt who shoots up civilians.
>>13601203
>[Iris] considered as the main " heroine " ( Urgh )
And that's a problem how?
>>13601187
The Beta occasionally pull out bullshit gimmicks like the Laser class, which can 360 noscope 1-hit-kill anything that flies and has never once missed a target with infinite range, such that the only thing that can protect you is the literal curvature of the Earth itself. This makes aircraft and missiles utterly pointless against the Beta until you kill all of the Laser class first.
But the Laser Class can't shoot below a certain floor, so the Muvluv Mecha (TSFs) use rockets for low flying jumps to keep a maneuverability advantage over the ground-based Beta.
In the past 50 years, no on on Earth has figured out 'hey, what if we just have the missiles fly lower? You know, under the same floor that the TSFs exploit to stay safe? Or, you know, use a ground-effect vehicle with all of the speed and advantages of a plane but also safe from Laser Class. Or, fuck I don't know, drone weapons'.
Nope. The answer is robots with swords that can cut through anything.
A good example of Muvluv stupidity is the reason why no one is using chemical or biological warfare against the Beta, which are clearly an organic alien race that runs around eating everything. There used to be a project to make a bioweapon to kill the Beta, but the guy in charge of it went crazy and forgot he wasn't a James Bond villain, so instead held the world hostage with his bioweapons and everyone had to team up against him to kill him. Afterwards, because of this one crazy asshole, literally everyone in the world decided that chemical and biological warfare against an alien race that is slowly driving the human race to extinction with no reliable way of stopping them was something we would never think about again.
And no one ever did.
>>13601202
No, it's Silvia
>>13601227
>>13601223
Because she is nothing near an heroine maybe ( Not is Beatrix though ) ?
They both are the kind of anti-hero actually.
>>13601219
Yeah. That's kind of normal, considering the original LN is heavily oriented on Theo point of view, and we don't know really much about what Beatrix is thinking, only hints here and there and a little more is explained near the end.
BiS described her background on a more open point of view, so people tend to understand more why she is like she is in SM.
>>13601234
No, it's Gretel.
>>13601034
Let me remind you that some people, though I hesitate to call them people, list the rebuild movies among their favorite anime series.
>>13601227
>There used to be a project to make a bioweapon to kill the Beta, but the guy in charge of it went crazy and forgot he wasn't a James Bond villain, so instead held the world hostage with his bioweapons and everyone had to team up against him to kill him. Afterwards, because of this one crazy asshole, literally everyone in the world decided that chemical and biological warfare against an alien race that is slowly driving the human race to extinction with no reliable way of stopping them was something we would never think about again.
>I have to make up my own B-tier headcanon and lies to prop up my own post: The Post
It was still a somewhat legit post up until that point.
>>13601239
>why she is like she is in SM.
Evil sociopathic bitch?
>>13601237
I know, I know, overthinking a fictional setting.
But at the same time, Muvluv demands to be taken seriously and tries to drive home the idea the humanity is fucked and basically powerless against the overwhelming Beta menace. We are losing and there is nothing we can do to stop it, etc etc.
Which is infuriating, because they could stop losing if they were not blithering fucking retards.
>>13601242
The first one was okay, but the rest? That's horrifying.
>>13601227
>use a ground-effect vehicle with all of the speed and advantages of a plane but also safe from Laser Class
.. robots with swords that can cut through anything?
If they managed to do it, why not build them?
They have drones already too.
>>13601186
- Kotobukiya kits. There are already 4 non scale MiGs scheduled for the next 3 months. I expect several recolors and the 1/144 counterparts
- Figmas. Beatrix, Irisdina and Katia at least
- Nendos. Same as above
- 1/8 PVCs. Iris is already out and I think Lyse and Katya had a prototype. Beatrix would probably have one too
>>13601242
I'm really disappointed in Anno
>>13601227
>Missiles and Drones
Interference put up by BETA would make controlling them over any significant distance a real hassle.
>Bio-weapons
They've tried them. You don't think an intergalactic race of mining organisms wouldn't have adaptations in place to operate in any environment
>>13601240
Gretel is the commissar, she's strictly bitchy because she has to, and she can be nice if you simply follow her orders.
Silvia is a fucking literal bitch for no reason, all day everyday, just because she's that edgy.
>>13601239
>Because she is nothing near an heroine maybe ( Not is Beatrix though ) ?
Funny, some guy on 2ch was making that same complaint:
ユルゲンって柴犬本編の時代だと反体制派の代名詞扱いされてそうだな シュトラハヴィッツの様に存在自体が無かった事にされてないのは確実だし、ユルゲンは誰が見ても 唾棄すべき鬼畜じゃないと実の兄を密告した女を国民的英雄として喧伝できる説得力が無いと思う つまり、今後の隻影でユルゲンはそう思われてもおかしくないだけの事をやらかすのか
>>13601223
>Annette isn't a turbo cunt who shoots up civilians.
at least she survived, tanking death flags like a champ
>>13601261
The sad thing is, is that the VN will likely not delve into her backstory, or why she's such a bitchshe was pretty much betrayed like Beatrix by her closest friend and was raped and got to see another friend killed for it.
>>13601266
As that's basically what I think, I'm more careful : We don't know for sure if she has sold her brother.
That's what Beatrix is thinking, and though I totally understand why she would want to kill Irisdina at all price for that, she might be wrong. The end of BiS probably will answer that.
>>13601274
You mean she slap her own death flags into other peoples
>>13601239
She's a complete cunt in Gretel's sidestory too. Really, I can't wait to kill her in Martyrs.
>>13601285
Except she care for Gretel. That's just her trolling.
But if you don't like her, fine by you. I like her and wish she had killed Irisdina, but unfortunately it didn't happen( Even if Axmann took care of this, he is the bitch in the story, and I totally prefered Beato was the one to kill her, even if Theo had to kill her after ).
>>13601249
I really, really hope that with the new wave of kits, they finally decide to make the Gekishin and Fubuki
>>13601279
>We don't know for sure if she has sold her brother.
Well, story arc has her gradually getting more and more jealous over Beato hogging all of her bro's time ("You have friends Iris, Beatrix doesn't") and hanging out more with her Mom who's not a very good person. I'm still thinking she was coerced into it, but we'll see.
>>13601291
>Except she care for Gretel. That's just her trolling.
Fuck man, have you even read Requiem. She's a total cunt in that. She invades Gretel's personal space and starts hugging and caressing after she has Martin arrested and starts whispering in her ear about how her parents were the only thing that saved her from being taken in by the stasi.
>>13601301Who is Martin?
>>13601301
Wow. Totally not Beatrix typical troll.
>>13601294
I actually wish she have done it by herself without anyone pushing her, and that they don't distort the story to make her the victim here. It would keep the balance where the two of them have their good and bad sides. That's actually the whole point of SM and why it's so good to read.
>>13601304
Gretel's high-school sweetheart.
>>13601301She let him go later though when she determined he was just patsy for his parents
>>13601294
What would it be like if Iris really did betrayed her brother and Beatrix out of her own vocation rather than being coerced or deceived into it? Would the fandom even survive it, and would Iris still be in the running for best girl (even if she's extremely remorseful over it)?
>>13601304Her bf
>>13601316
There might still have been a chance when Beatrix's past wasn't revealed.
After Beatrix got her past, though? No way she'll come out of this in any sort of "best character" poll ever, you'll be seeing images of shredded dakimakura and crumpled pinups everywhere.
>>13601316
>Would the fandom even survive it, and would Iris still be in the running for best girl (even if she's extremely remorseful over it)?
You know how Axmann forceda bunch of prisoners and a couple of his men to rapeLise? The Beatrixfags would be the prisoners/Axmann, and the Irisdinafags (all like four or five of em) would be Lise.
>>13601335
>There might still have been a chance when Beatrix's past wasn't revealed.
Iris was by far the most popular before BiS. Now, it's much more even. We don't know how BiS will go. Beatrix could be the one who gets Jurgen in hot water, but that seems more and more unlikely as their romance has progressed.
Is Jurgen the same age as Beato and Iris or what
>>13601371
He's like 3-4 years older.
>>13601305
That goes beyond trolling and you know it.
>>13601353
I thinking that the backlash would be far greater for those who run BeatrixJurgen due to that.
Previously all that there was to Beatrix was just Stasi Bitch. Now that she's 50/50 with Irisdina, has an actual background, and a pre-SM personality that has caused, from what I can see, nearly half of the ML fans to change sides and take her as "best waifu" as opposed to previous stance of "fucking bitch", the effect from Irisdina willingly selling out Jurgen would probably set of a second Kannagi event of sorts.
It would be a long time before Irisdina gets into the semifinals of any character polls again, that's how mad crazy about Beatrix you guys look like to me.
Although, given the circumstances, Irisdina would probably get railroaded by someone else into her betrayal act due to her cracking psyche being under pressure so that'll probably alleviate some of the heat for the Irisdinafans.
>>13601388
oh boy, I can't wait for all the shitposting once the SM anime airs!
>>13601388
>50/50 with Irisdina
Iris is still most popular over in Nippon. Beatrix is second place and has more fans than the third and fourth most popular girls, Lise and Katia respectively, combined.
And what is "Kannagi?"
>>13601403
>Implying it hasn't already started
>>13601408
>Kannagi
The character of Nagi turned out to have a boyfriend and her having sex was alluded to, desecrating her 'pure' image and causing legions of obsessed, wretched otaku to tear up and burn their volumes in protest.
>>13601436
Good for Iris then. She remains "pure" throughout.Even dies a virgin.
>>13601243
>>I have to make up my own B-tier headcanon and lies to prop up my own post: The Post
If its bullshit, its bullshit that I got from previous ML lore threads.
>>13601430
Should shoop in a picture of her breasts as bait on that hook.
>>13601461
It's bullshit, through and through.
>>13601408
People who like Iris like her because of her personality; people who like Beatrix like her just because she's hot.
>>13601613
Oh god, is it so hard to understand for you that someone evil can have a personality too ?
I started to like Beatrix after we know a lot more about her plans personaly.
I already liked her for the master troll level she was, but knowing she was putting humanity above everything really changed my way of understanding her actions, and I wasn't considering her like the bitch she apparently was after that.
And of course, her being hot as hell is always a plus.
>>13601637
>is it so hard to understand for you that someone evil can have a personality too ?
I bet you hate Theo.
Here you go /m/en, most of the OST up until the first choice in the Schwarzesmarken VN.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9gt6p54p6njd9hu/Schwarzesmarken%282%29.rar
>>13601637
Beatrix beats Iris out in the look departments, definitely, but she's an otherwise vile, disgusting human being. I'll take my 9/10 Aryan princess with amazing personality and great humor over an 11/10 goddess with absolute shit personality.
>>13601637
>Oh god, is it so hard to understand for you that someone evil can have a personality too ?
You know, I don't really think her personality has a lot to do with people liking her.
>>13601661
Speak for yourself
Before all the new info started coming in, Beato was just fab bait for me. I absolutely detested her and Iris was my waifu. Now, I don't really know what to think, but I'm leaning more on the Beatrix side than the Iris side.
>>13601677
>Beato was just fab bait for me
And I'm sure she's stayed that way for a lot of people, really.
>>13601678
Yeah, Beatrixfags are pretty superficial people when you get right down too it.
>>13601647
Yeah, but I can't deny the fact that he has a personality that some people can like.
>>13601661
Unfortunately yeah, most of them just see her as a sex object. Those should have just stared at the art instead of reading the LN ( Assuming they did ).
>>13601736
>implying all the girls aren't sex objects in some way
There's a lot of people over in Japan who consider Iris to be way hotter than Beato, partially because many otaku tend to be repulsed by overtly sexy designs (not as many over here though; the consensus in the West seems to be that Iris has a generic character design).
>>13601736
>most of them just see her as a sex object.
Well, really, it's not like BiS did much to disabuse the notion.
In addition to the standard VNs emphasizing how hot she is to the point where the story grinds to a halt every so often to offer a description, BiS also made her a tsundere and paired her up with the most inexplicably perfect individual in all of Muvluv, so there's more common things people love.
>>13601766
Don't forget the fucking obsession Japanese have with blonde hair.
>>13601743
Considering BETA can produce material with hardness of 15 on the Mohs scale, how fucked would Humanity be if they decided to create a strain entirely made of this material ?
Especially when they could create an insane amount of this new class with the amount of material they already use in mass with Grapplers and Destroyers ( They already make around 20-25% of a large attack force, so they could do near to 10% of those new strain with that, decreasing the overall force numbers but increasing a part of their dangerosity )
>>13601780
It miss the " Vuronguh "
>>13601771
Jürgen ain't perfect. Abel runs rings around him and plays him for a fool. The other big politicos do the same because despite his charisma, Jürgen is inexperienced and naive. He believes that he can reason out issues, talk to people, show them reason and they'll listen. While he probably would've matured into power player eventually, his idealism will probably be the cause all sorts of grief for himself and his loved ones. He has a bit of a hero complex and puts himself (and others) into situations he shouldn't. He's pretty much the anti-Theo, but that isn't exactly a good thing, especially in the Altverse.
>>13601783
>Vuronguh
?
>>13601743
What if I like both?
>>13601782
It's pretty stupid how they produced a countermeasure for planes 10 minutes after the first hive landed, and then never did anything else ever
>>13601798
Well, yeah, that's about the only thing that's wrong with him.
Meanwhile, he's born into an influential and wealthy family, couldn't be designed as more stereotypically Aryan if one tried - though that's probably a continuing trend of Japan thinking there are a lot of blue-eyed blondes naturally in Germany, in fairness - and he's become a national symbol, an ace pilot, a military adviser to the Russians, a genius in operating and realizing the flaws of TSFs and the DDR's representative at the ripe old age of 18, and the worst that can be said about him is that he despises his parents and that he possesses some naivete.
Not like the readers care about the downside of his idealism, the positives outweigh the negatives substantially.
>>13601803
They did produce Laser Fort class after a while, probably after witnessing the potential power of Susanoo II ( Even if it failed ).
Now that I think of it, it's dumb. If lasers were already being deflected by the Rutherford field, why the fuck would they try to shoot down another Susanoo with the same weapons, even if they are more powerful ? They will keep being deflected.
>>13601801
Maybe I didn't understood something, but I read " Beatrix did nothing ". So it needs a " wrong " to be really complete.
>>13601803
They invented Venators. No idea why they bothered since they don't really bring anything useful to the table. And if you're to believe Isumi, they learn to deal with diversionary tactics.
>>13601811
>national symbol
Not really
>a military adviser to the Russians
>an ace pilot
>a genius in operating and realizing the flaws of TSFs
He's a test pilot, of course he's skilled and of course they take his feedback into consideration.
Also, it was Strawitz (Katia's dad) advising the Russians. Jürgen just got to be the guy to test out the new anti-laser tactics.
>representative at the ripe old age of 18
Heim and Strawitz wanted academy students because experienced jet and helicopter pilots had a bunch of habits ingrained in them that made them suck when piloting TSFs. That's why they picked Jürgen and his best friend.
Also, it's kinda nice to see a ML protagonist who doesn't start off as a complete dick.
>>13601835
>Also, it's kinda nice to see a ML protagonist who doesn't start off as a complete dick.
>Who is Takeru
>Who is Hibiki
And it's not like Theo doesn't have his reasons, either.
>Beatrix will never step on you
>>13601843
Hibiki is even worse on the mary sue count and Takeru is a huge jerk before character development kicks in.
>>13601826
>No idea why they bothered since they don't really bring anything useful to the tableStealth?
>>13601847
>Beatrixfags in one post
>>13601848
Takeru is neither dick or a jerk. He is dense and clueless, but neither a dick or jerk.
>>13601843
>Takeru
as much as it pains people, the bratty saviour was real dick, the first half of Extra portrays him like a complete jerk, he gets his shit together near the end of UL and in Alt, but that's after god knows how many loops he has gone
fuck Hibiki
>>13601798
Who the hell is Abel?
>>13601871
Beatrix's father and huge dick.
>>13601871
Beatos Dad.
>>13601879
>always makes sure daughter is safe with a security police bodyguard
>protects her chastity from the predation of boys
>always pushing her to do her best
>setting her up for a successful life as an adult
I don't know. Abel seems like a pretty swell guy.
>>13601907
Oh he is really careful for his daughter.
But he's a dick when it comes down to business.
>>13601849
Who needs stealth when you can burrow underneath your enemy and invade their base from below, where it is impossible to defend against?
>>13601909
You don't get to be Chairman of the State Planning Commission by playing softball.
>>13601907
>>13601917
Beato took up swimming to get away from her dad. I doubt he's a "nice guy."
>>13601848
>Hibiki is even worse on the mary sue count
And yet he isn't immediately portrayed as 'a dick or a jerk', is he?
>>13601771
She's also a great cook. Really, Beatrix is pretty waifuable if you think about it.
>>13601931
We nervous get to see what kind of person he is in extra.
>>13601948
Just because she was a good kid doesn't change the fact that she's a shit person who does some truly horrific things as an adult and deserves to be killed, painfully. But hey, I guess so long as she's fucking Venus walking the Earth in the looks department, you guys'll forgive her of anything.
>>13602015
Lurk previous threads for answers on Beatrix's actions in SM. I'm tired of explaining to your kind.
>>13602020
Wanting to sacrifice East Germany to the BETA as a buffer zone and try to get everyone else to rally against them doesn't make her any less of a terrible person.
>>13602020
Muh aliems isn't an excuse for having bones folded, teeth removed, and other fun activities and the Stasi's Super Funhouse. Neither does it justify coldly executing people and shooting civilians up with your TSF's cannons. Neither does it justify trying to have a 15 year old child brought in for torture and interrogation. Neither does it justify trying to kill an old friend and anyone in between. Doesn't justify going after non-rebellious dissenters with legitimate complaints against government run institution (ie: the government is literally killing us with they're illegal pollution, do something). And it doesn't justify countless other atrocities. You ask me, the bitch got off lightly in the end. Should've just left her to bleed out painfully and ignominiously in a ditch or something.
>>13602033
>Stasi's Super Funhouse
I want in!
>>13602028
Hitler was a terrible person too.
Was he totally uninteresting ? No. Wasn't he a great political speaker and military leader ? Yes he was ( At least before he became crazy ).
Beatrix gives no shit about morality. And that's totally her choice to deal with the situation. Doesn't make her an uninteresting person. She have goals, and she do what she wants to achieve them.
>>13602033
I hope you will be executed someday.
A lot of this happened because the rebels got in the middle. She decided to deal with it the Stasi way to impress the people who were counting in her plans.
Let me guess, you are the kind of people who actually see the world in only two tones right, white or black ? No grey anywhere ? Anything morally unacceptable is obviously bad ?
>>13602033
>Neither does it justify trying to kill an old friend.
Seriously ?
If my best friend kill my lover, you bet he will get dynamite in his ass in no time, regardless of the countless years we had fun.
>>13602051
SM is more like grey vs black. The rebels are definitely not good guys, but the Beatrix and the stasi are way worse.
>>13602055
It doesn't justify hurting all the innocents caught in between either.
>>13602063
If someone try to stop me from getting his ass, you bet I will get their asses too.
Specially if I'm like in the regular army and they are rebels, so I don't care about them anyway.
>>13602062
The Stasi is worse, yeah. Beatrix is not, she's basically acting to gain power through this shithole and change it.
Werewolves are darker grey than the rebels, sure, but they are grey too.
>>13602051
I don't know whether Hitler being the first person you leap to when comparing Beatrix to somebody else is amusing or simply supportive of my original statement. Or both, even.
>>13602055
You know, Beatrix could've been the one responsible for fucking Jurgen over. The whole story could've then been convoluted to the point where Iris is the one left holding the bag. It'd match the personalities they had on show in SM better and would explain why Iris is so keen on having Beatrix dead. Don't be so quick to rule out the possibility that Beatrix was the bad actor in the whole relationship and Iris is merely another victim.
>>13602076
>Could
Wait and see before stating anything. I'm the first who want to be sure about this. But for now, with what we know, it's Iris who did it.
Besides, really, if it's not Iris, the entire LN lose an enormous value. It's good because it's displaying grey anywhere. If it happens Beatrix have no good reason to want to kill Iris, it will fuck up basically everything.
>>13602076
Typical Irisdinafag here. Shifting the blame around before trying to make a complicated and nuanced issue into a black and white one.
>>13602075
>What is taking an extreme in an explaination.
>>13602082
They're just emulating their waifu. It's an Abrahamic/Judeo-Christian tradition after all.
>>13602084
Even then, what point is there to make?
Yeah, I guess Hitler has a bit more to him than being that one guy who made Nazism a thing for a few years and who had a direct hand in killing millions of people for the sake of faulty and flawed ideologies, does that make him any less of a dick? Hell no it doesn't. Same apples here. People can go on about Beatrix's ostensibly noble intentions, that doesn't erase every crime she committed.
Or maybe it does in their eyes, I don't know.
>>13602100
Not him, but personaly, it does, as I don't see those crimes as being anything as bad as losing Humanity as a race. There is a point where morality have nothing to do here when we are talking about survival. You don't discuss with the BETA. You can't think that you will have a peace treaty one day. The peace will come when all humans will be dead. So what's the point ? Hell, she could have killed thousands of innocent people, if it was to try and save millions of others for a few years, who cares ?
Beatrix is Yuuko-lite. She doesn't have a master plan or the connections to make it happen. She's trying to get to a position where she can make sure that when East Germany does get overrun, it'll have bought valuable time for the rest of Europe. Iris' noble goal of reuniting the Germanies is great and all but even if we pretend that the future isn't set in stone, Germany is fucked no matter what. She's shortsighted and ended up working with a man that makes Beatrix look like a saint. And that's another point that links Beatrix and Yuuko. No method is too dirty for them if it helps them achieve their goal of giving humanity a better chance at survival.
In the end there's no real good guy in SM but at best you can say that Beatrix had the greater good in mind. And given how Alternative goes, that's really all that matters. Throughout ML it's basically been shown time and time again that nationalism can't beat the BETA and intentions are worthless if they aren't doing anything for the continued survival of humanity. Nobility and nationalistic fervor amount to nothing before the BETA.
>>13602100
It doesn't make her a better person for sure, but I'm not saying she needs to be a good one. Why would she need that ? She can't achieve her goal by playing nice anyway.
We don't need to forgive her to think she had her reasons, that her actions make sense on a certain view point and that she is an interesting person. That's what I want to point with the Hitler thing. He might be terrible, but he is interesting ( Hell, you can even admire him for some of his actions, even if he stays a terrible person ).
>>13602133
>She doesn't have a master plan or the connections to make it happen.
A high ranking Stasi officer doesn't have access to everyone's dirt so she can make things happen?
>>13602139
She is blocked by Axmann who is her direct superior. There is some things she can do with her rank ( Like killing the guy who wants to nuke East Germany ), but she can't do everything she wants to.
That's why she want more power directly from USSR.
>>13602144
>That's why she want more power directly from USSR.
And how does the Soviet Union get any say in what happens in East Germany anymore when there's a million BETAs between them and it's the NVA not the Red Army who are holding the Oder-Neisse Line?
>>13602135
Stalin's a way better and less controversial comparison. He did a ton of bad shit and a lot of it wasn't even for the continued survival for the USSR. But in the end they got through the great patriotic war and emerged one of the world superpowers. There's just no need to ignore the awful things he did.
>>13602139
She a brand new major when the story kicks off (was still a captain back in 1982). On paper, not exactly very high on the totem pole. Most of her power is "soft" in nature, derived from her charisma, hero status among the loyalist, and the fact that she controls the most elite TSF battalion in East Germany.
>>13602144
Schmidt, the guy above Axmann, hates Beatrix and would block her if Axmann didn't. Guy literally calls her a big breasted bimbo, and is extremely angry that she'd turn him down/troll him. This on top of the fact that she has questionable loyalties (past connection to the Bernhards) and if she rebels she takes all 50 Werewolves with her. Leaves him in a sticky spot because he just can't fire her without the Werewolves throwing a huge fit,so he tries to martyr her first by sending her on suicide missions (she comes back with flying colors), the poisoning her a couple of times (only to be interrupted every-time she puts the wine to her lips), and then finally by directly gunning her down and blaming rebel spies; Beatrix doesn't actually catch on until Chapter 37/38 what he's trying to do, hilariously.
>>13602127
>if it was to try and save millions of others for a few years, who cares ?
Does the phrase 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' mean anything to you?
Wonder what Beatrix would have even been able to accomplish if her plan did work and every atrocity she committed was validated, either - it's hardly like they could stop the BETA advance as is.
>>13602165
>Stalin's a way better and less controversial comparison.
Or Mao. Chinese today still have a saying that Mao's reign was seven parts good, three parts bad.
>>13602170
It's not like Beatrix or Yuuko expect things to turn out well for them. They don't give a shit if their names get run through the mud. It's all for humanity. Beatrix does operate on a much smaller scale but that's a given, not everyone is a genius. And nothing would really validate the stuff she does. That's kind of the point. Whatever Beatrix does, she's not getting away with it. She knows it and she doesn't care. East Germany is going to fall to the BETA and she'd rather die than let its fall be wasted. She wants to make it so that when East Germany falls, it'll have given the rest of Europe time to evacuate/get shit done and just maybe, she'll drag all the poisonous snakes of East Germany down with her in the process.
>>13602157
The Stasi is under the control of USSR command. Even if they are isolated from each other, that's always their Mother Land. If they decide to nominate someone else as the Stasi Commander, then be it.
Besides, they are always able to resupply East Germany through the Northern Seas ( That's how they send MiG-27 to the Werewolves ).
>>13602167
Oh yeah, I forgot about Schmidt. That's him she wants to outpower via USSR.
>>13602165
>>13602178
Ah yeah, those were way better exemples. I just said Hitler because when you think of an extremely terrible person, you obviously think of him.
>>13602188
Another aspect to consider is it's easier to seek help from old allies than to go with whatever the West will do. At least the Soviets understand full well just how hard it is to keep the BETA at bay. The EU and Americans are either ignorant or know and don't care. Whatever sort of deal they'd make with them wouldn't pan out well as either.
>>13602192
That's actually why she killed civilians when they were trying to get to the West. It was a threat as high as the rebels for the Soviet government, and losing their support would sign the total end of her plans, as she could obviously not get in any high rank on the West side nor have the right to say anything ( She even would probably have been executed anyway ).
>>13601227
>Nope. The answer is robots with swords that can cut through anything.
I find it kind of hilarious that if the timeline is to be believed, the very first thing the Japanese did when the Americans first launched the F-4 Phantom and marketed it to everyone else was to place an order for custom-designed giant katanas, something the Americans hadn't bothered to design themselves because it was such a dumb idea.
>>13602188
>The Stasi is under the control of USSR command. Even if they are isolated from each other, that's always their Mother Land.
The USSR is not any German's "motherland"
>>13602217
Good thing we are not talking about Germans but the Eastern European Socialist Alliance. Who are soviets, regardless of their nationality. And for the Soviets, the Motherland is Russia.
>>13602224
>the Eastern European Socialist Alliance. Who are soviets, regardless of their nationality. And for the Soviets, the Motherland is Russia.
Firstly you seem to be confusing Warsaw Pact nations like East Germany, Poland, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia with actual Soviet Socialist Republics of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, like the Ukrainian SSR, the Kazakh SSR, the Lithuanian SSR, and the Russian SFSR.
Secondly even those citizens of the non-Russian constituent republics of the USSR would be loathe to consider Russia to be their motherland.
>>13602249
They are run by soviets. There is no difference for the point we are talking about about the Warsaw pact and the USSR members.
The guys in charge are soviets, and by that they take their orders from USSR.
>>13602188
No, she justshoots himwhen he was smugging out on hiskill the Big Breasted Major and nuke East Germany schemesin Chapter 38. Schmidt was an asshole and a fool. All the other stasi thought his predecessor (the one everyone thinks was killed by him anyways) to be way better and not off the wall evil.
Also, about Beatrix getting cozy with the USSR; she was just doing it to get the MiGs. She's actually hates the Soviets and trolls them extra hard.
>>13602261
The people in charge in the Eastern Bloc countries may have been flunkies doing whatever Moscow told them to, but they weren't Soviets themselves, and Russia was not their motherland.
Man, I love her
>>13602217
>>13602224
Beatrix flat out says we're on our own and that "Moscow is a dead city" when she was talking to Axmann.
>>13602304
What the fuck is that thing on the right
BETA can use the comm channels now?
>>13602304
Irisdina is for those who can look deeper and not be bedazzled by physical beauty. Truly the best girl.
>>13602309
Why were all the Beatrix scenes, like her conversations with Axmann, cut from the VN?
>>13602304
Why has the evolution of the TSF's HUD in between 1983 Germany and 2001 Japan been completely zero aside from the color scheme? Even the realtime video feeds of squad members is still in full HD Technicolor.
Compare and contrast with the change in UI between MGS2 and MGS3.
>>13602299
I didn't remember it was Schmidt who wanted tonuke East Germany. Thought it was a random officer. Guess I will have to read it again.
But that doesn't change the fact that she wants to outpower Axmann and become the Stasi Commander. Killing the people over her would just make them being replaced by other Stasi officers according to the hierarchy, and she can't just kill anybody if she want to get the power, that would obviously either make her dead in no time or totally discredited for the function.
>>13602309
She doesn't care about the support of USSR except for the new TSFs. All she wants from them, besides their new toys, is that they consider her worth to command the Stasi, and gain absolute power over East Germany ( Like a Governor ) and even over other countries of the alliance, as the Stasi is an high USSR force who should be respected.
Needing them for her plan doesn't mean she likes them.
>>13602312
Is this a new BETA strategy?
>>13602312
>>13602345
I laughed way too hard.
>>13602341
They didn't wanted to lose their poor little fans.
>>13602342
Nah, it was. I remember Beatrix being just mildly miffedwhen he revealed he was trying to kill herbut going absolutely apeshit when he started talking aboutnuking the BETA and rebels.It was actually one of the few times where she dropped all her composure. As the book puts it, her face went from sexy to terrifying.
>>13602360
Yeah, I remember this scene, but I totally forgot it was Schmidt.
Not that he is anything near charismatic or that important though.
>>13602364
>Not that he is anything near charismatic or that important though.
That's the idea. He's meant to be a terrible leader who got their by literally stabbing the guys above him in the back. All the crazy torture procedures were approved under him too, compared to his predecessor who apparently used standard stasi tactics like sleep deprivation, deal cutting, and water boarding. But the majority of the stasi still blindly follow him and his Moscow sect to their doom anyways.
>>13602381
Yeah, but that makes him totally forgettable. That's why I thought it was a random officer.
>>13602385
I just remember him as the guy who got Beato really pissed off. That's something even Axmann couldn't do.
>>13602381
>All the crazy torture procedures were approved under him too, compared to his predecessor who apparently used standard stasi tactics like sleep deprivation, deal cutting, and water boarding.
And Moscow didn't have such an incompetent man removed, because...?
>>13602317
It's not like she's any less hot anyway, even in-story
>main squadron is called Black Marks
>OP song is called White Forces
what
>>13602398
Pottery
>>13602341
NIHON NO RIKE CHANGE
>>13602391
Because they don't care about what the Stasi is doing, as long as they rule the country for them. They have their own problems ( Way bigger problems actually ), and while the Union is still there, they don't have the time to care about it more than that.
If nobody is complaining, why should they pay attention. That's why Beatrix want to be in their good books so she can ask them to get the command and actually get it because they know her.
>>13602391
First, Moscow Sect and Berlin Sect are the names of the two opposing groups within the stasi. Beatrix and Schmidt are Moscow Faction stasi while Axmann a Berlin Faction stasithough it's much more complicated than that.The Berlin faction wanted closer ties to the west, while the Moscow faction, headed by Schmidt, wanted to stay loyal to the Soviets. Most stasi are Moscow faction nominallybut many just do it for the perks or out of loyalty/peer pressure.
Second, Moscow's fucked, they really can't do anything about it. In Red Star and Red Hammer, the Soviet official fumes because Beato is trolling him uberhard and he can't do shit because he's virtually powerless.
Third, Schmidt has connections and guys like Axmann keep him in power for their own benefit.
>>13602396
I'm just saying, most Beatrixfags like Beatrix because she's fap bait while most Irisfags like her for her personality and character.
>>13602441
>you
>>13602443
Yeah, I like Irisdina better. She is far more endearing. It kinda upsets me that all I see getting discussed is the stasi sociopath. Whenever Iris pops up, it's always "she betrayed her bro so Beato is absolutely justified in killing her."
>>13602441
You learned well for Beatrix-sama.
>>13602020
But all of those were lost when that retard screwed over the archives.
>>13602460
Desustorage have a /m/ archive.
>>13602460
Beatrix cares a great deal about the BETA. 2 posts from the 2ch threads (http://toro.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/magazin/1393851260/):
ベアトリクスは対BETA、人類全体を優先して東ドイツを犠牲にしようとした。あとこれも上で書いてあったが、ベアトリクスの思想とは何を優先するかの違いってのは まさしくその通りだと思う。で、その逆に、人類全体よりドイツを優先した結果がテロドールじゃないかと。
ベアトリクスでさえ人類の勝利を願ってたわけで、マスターのあの行動が人類か東ドイツを救うための 行動だとしても驚かないな。
Beatrix's plan was to use the East as a buffer while the West fucked off somewhere else.To her, it was basic triage. Sacrifice most of East Germany for a chance at survival (and bring along as many other survivors as possible) and then form a unified Germany elsewhere. She was freaking out during the rebellion and was trying to show the West/UN that she still had the situation under control (which is why she was so fucking brutal in the final volumes). To her, the BETA wars were more than just about Germany's survival, but about humanities survival.
Iris and the rest of the 666 opposed the plan on moral/nationalistic grounds (plan called for significant Ossie death). She is an idealist after all, and thinks they have a chance against the aliens if only the East and West would unite and those damn stasi would get out of the way.
Beatrix isn't completely evil. She did let Gretel's BF go when she found that it was his parents were dragging him along (vs Axmann who'd just torture the hell out of you just because).
I know this community has gotten used to not bothering to use spoiler tags over the last few years but I'd like to ask, when this show starts airing, can we please start using them properly for the benefit of people who are watching the anime but not otherwise familiar with ML?
>>13602073
>Werwölfe
FTFY
>>13602471
>>13602460
A couple more from the 2ch threads (http://toro.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/magazin/1396788592/):
ベアトリクス
ラスボス。「ラスボスは最初に出しておくべき」を守って描いた。彼女の意見も正義だと思う。アイリスより人類全体を考えているかも。
Basically talks about how Beatrix had it right and Iris was wrong. Beatrix was just in the way she acted, and her putting the totality of humankind was better than Iris who put Germany first.
の、自らの死を救いに感じる描写からすると、
ベアトリクスは信念を抱いて苛烈に生きていたものの、
根っからの悪人ではなく、そうせざるをえなかった人生を重荷に感じていたんだな。
Basically states that Beatrix was forced into her role by the shittiness of her world, and that given a choice, she probably wouldn't be evil.
(from http://hello.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/magazin/1413607950/)
大体想像ついたよ テオ ドイツ>世界 ベア ドイツ<世界
Theo: Germany>World Beato: Germany<World (referring to the final battle/conversation between the two, where Theo rejects Beatrix's pleas)
>>13602472
There is a high probability that some will use them, and some will not.
If I were you, I would not get into those threads as long as the anime is not finished.
>>13602472
lol no
>>13602472
We are using spoiler tags.
>>13602485
>the number of untagged spoilers in this thread alone
I remember when people were really autistic about using spoiler tags for MLA properly. To the point that in /vg/ a method of trolling anyone trying to discuss MLA in VN thread was to post open MLA spoilers.
>>13602472
You posted this shit on /a/ too. Expect spoilers every single day, faggot.
>>13602178
>Mao's reign was seven parts good, three parts bad
That's being EXTREMELY charitable.
>>13602499
>You posted this shit on /a/ too.
Because both /a/ and /m/ have their own ML communities, which overlap only moderately. What's the problem?
>>13602494
>>13602499
What exactly would you want to have spoiled? For those who've read the book, it's kinda hard to tell sometimes what is basic information and what is a spoiler. Or would you rather have everything spoiled, like it was a couple of years ago?
>>13602304
>chain gun
>not Kettengewehr
Looks like Phil missed a spot.
>>13602500
Definitely but the Mao and Stalin are way less controversial figures to compare Beatrix to than, say, Hitler.
>>13602505
How about posts like >>13602471 which was what prompted me to make this complaint in the first place
>>13602527
Yeah, that whole thing should probably be blacked out. Very well researched though, even includes sources that you can check it against.
>>13602396
Word of Götz.
>>13602500
The saying was coined by Deng Xiaoping, one of the guys who supported Mao early on, before he got purged by Mao for his economic policies (policies which when he put them into action after taking power following Mao's death made sure China became the powerhouse it is today instead of an impoverished shithole characterized by such clusterfucks as the Great Leap Forward). So naturally he'd have some bias in favor of Mao.
>look at this thread
It's not like it was unexpected after all. Beato and Iris are just way more easy to fight over than Yui and Cryska.
>>13602468
Only for material from the past month or so and some from before 2012; everything in between is FUCKED!
>>13602547
That's better than nothing.
>>13602541
That makes me hate Mao even more for not having him executed when he had the chance.
>>13602551
An economically strong China is a bad thing because?
>>13602505
So, with everything else said and done, who would you guys rather have as a girlfriend whose wildly in love with you? Beatrix or Iris.
>>13602592
Beatrix. Being Jürgen would probably be living the dreamdespite a sudden death.
>>13602555
Because it enables an oppressive regime to continue oppressing its populace and sustain itself indefinitely, to say nothing of facilitates all the rampant assholism they've been committing for decades and is now enabling them to perpetrate to a degree never seen before in the modern era.
>>13602592
Just going off of personality, looks, and general waifuness (basically, ignoring how one's a brother traitor and the other a stasi with a ton of blood on her hands), Beatrix. Looking at them holistically and taking into account those actions, Irisdina. I think Beato is much more deredere than Iris when in love though.
>>13601649
>Schwarzesmarken[2]
So is this the first ost or the second?
>>13602617
Even with the wholedeadthing, Jürgen's gotta be one of the luckiest guys in the whole series.
>>13602668
It's a reupload, one track had a problem with the recording.
What are the chance we'll get any of the side or prequel material in the second VN?
>>13601820
>why the fuck would they try to shoot down another Susanoo with the same weapons
They do accelerate the power drain due to the shield though.Susano'o's G-fuel ain't gonna make itself.
>>13603058
They only made one of those, though, and it was only because Superior-chan got the idea from Slutmika's link.
![シュヴァルツェスマーケンPV (1080p).mp4_snapshot_00.39_[2015.12.09_09.04.28].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/tdAdGHj.jpg "シュヴァルツェスマーケンPV (1080p).mp4_snapshot_00.39_[2015.12.09_09.04.28].jpg")
When does commissar take off her glasses and tie her hair back?
>>13604009
I think the game has a bit more than 168 lines though
>>13603851
When she is trying to disguise herself from Beatrix and co.
Does anyone catch lyrics of the "insert song"?
>>13602304
>>13602510
>Situations Analyse
>120mm Kanone
>Sende
Can âge get anything right?
>>13604209
Even Google Translate could do a better job.
>>13604209
I thought it was for these kinds of things that they hired Bernhard-kun
>>13604229
no, he was hired for translate kinky german porn to kouki
>>13604205
When does it play anyway?
>>13604450
Gathering references for SM altered Fable?
>>13604454
Expect bestiality in Altered Fable then, because basically half of the kinky vintage german porn includes a dog.
>>13598639
Looks exactly like TE
Why the fuck do people care about this again?
>>13604474
We are actually more waiting for the second part of the VN. We have little hope for the anime 3D mechs, but that's basically all about it.
>>13604463
I'm okay with itSilvia and Gretel only deserves dogs
>>13604489Note that I never said I wasn't okay with this either
