Newtypes
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
Why does simply being in space unlock the rest of their brains?
>>12438240
yes
>>12438240
70's sci-fi storyline. Basically boils down to "because magic". I am fine accepting it and giant robots as a premise.
How come earthlings aren't newtypes when earth is also in space?
>believing humans don't use all their brains
>believing newtypes are exclusive to space
>>12438299
>Not watching Victory or X
Well, you're given about X. It's crap.
>>12438240
If such a thing were real, then our understanding of epigenetics covers it quite easily. You see, any particular organism has a specific set of genes. However, depending on the environmental stressors that befall the individual, that specific combination of genes can produce a set variety of transcriptional responses (which can vary widely, most obviously as varying protein conc. or makeup, but also affecting proliferation, cytoskeletal reorganization, growth, etc etc.). Let's call these responses A, B, and C.
Under particular stressors, say persistent low-gravity environments, it is at least hypothetically possible that some inheritable mutation that is already present in a population may be more likely to be expressed. It is not likely, of course, given the need for this mutation (or, more likely, a set of mutations) to be both relatively silent but also have profound effects that are not reversed upon environmental stressor removal, but it is possible.
>unlock the rest of their brains?
This, however, is the biggest piece of bullshit in the world. We use all our brains. Every bit of it. Only a small fraction comprises our "logical consciousness" (that is, mPFC), but all of it is required to do everything we do. Huge sections of our brain are required for visual discrimination of faces, for ignoring unimportant audio cues, to do integral calculus when calculating trajectories of a thrown handegg. There are (practically) no parts of the brain that are not used in some fashion.
>>12438240
If Jupiter has several times the gravity of Earth then are Jovians several times more Earthnoid than Earthnoids?
Because anon [spoilers]space is the place. [/spoilers]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dokLwszdUgY
>>12438299
Well the only real difference is that Earth has a huge magnetic field that absorbs radiation. So spacenoids probably get more radiation than earthnoids, which would lead to more mutation I guess.
>people on /m/ still don't know about the Overview effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect
that and also
>>12438335
>>12438750
So does that mean all astronauts and cosmonauts are proto-Newtypes?
>>12438240
It also makes you a hobbit.
>>12438299
Souls are held down by gravity
>>12439033
But colonies have artificial gravity.
>>12438240
There was actually a popular theory that came around about the time of the moon landing or just after it. I remember reading it sometime in the 90s as one of those kind of hilarious and quaint things, and I don't remember who the guy was, but it was like on the level of Zechariah Sitchen or the ancient aliens guy. The theory was basically that mankind's forays into zero gravity and inevitable life in space would trigger an eventual evolution, that humans would evolve to not only deal with the full zero g orientation that life in space requires (basically, on solid ground our senses are limited by the fact that we have a defined sense of what is up and what is down and that doesn't exist in space), but also the great distances between humans would cause an almost ESP-like evolution where we would evolve to sense each others presences and emotions in much the same way that animals like sharks, bees, and ants sense the presence of others through electrical impulses. The guy's basis was that Darwinian evolution demonstrates that organisms adapt based upon environment, and space is a new environment that requires adaptation, so over time, humans would adapt and develop both the sensory and technological prowess to survive life in space.
In story terms, Amuro is one of the first generation of such evolved people.
Tomino almost certainly read the theory at some point, it was apparently pretty well known after the space race. If anyone remembers the name of the theorist, please let me know, I'd love to read it again.
>>12439290
Kinda sad that evolution doesn't actually work that way. I don't think zero-g affects genetics/germline mutations in any way, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
Plus, we keep sending our best and brightest to space. If we develop an early space colony and let such people reproduce in the colony, we might end up distilling humanity's best phenotypes. Sort of like unintentional eugenics.
There's no direction in space, there's no way to orient yourself, there's no such thing as being "upside down" in zero gravity. This makes navigating in 3D space much more difficult than on earth, so humans develop increased spatial awareness to help with it.
>>12439362
I heard that Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids, in fact it's cold as hell.
>>12439343
I always liked the theory but looking from other aspect...
The guy was wrong by mentioning darwin and showing lamarckist ideas, but there is the possibility that those skills are already here, just latent. We could maybe already have newtypes inside us, at least in a small parcel of mankind. The rapid widespread of space colonization just put enough people up there that someone finally awakened a latent ability.
Other theory that i like less is that the same space radiaton that gave coach Ohta space cancer in gunbuster could mutate people.... but that one requires wishful thinking and lack of knowledge about how mutations work.
>>12438757
How long before Buzz Aldrin tells us our souls are weighed down by gravity and then fucks off to space?
>>12439423
I think that's Valeri Polyakov is basically saying to us every damn time he goes up.
>>12438240
Less gravity to hold us back.
>>12439589
And Cosmic rays.
Plenty of people are Newtypes already before going to space, and zipping around doesn't necessarily have to be the part that further increases their Newtype ability.It's killing each other. A lack of understanding breeds Newtypes. All of their psycho technology is used for war and murdering other people. Even when they have their psychic love fests, they either foment hatred in others or are used to power up super deadly attacks. Space is bad.
>>12438323
>X is crap
>Victory isn't
>>12439612
Amuro rays or Tem rays?
>>12439850
Keks all around
>>12439400
There's never been an official report as to what Newtypes are. I personally think I like based Tobia's idea the most.But then we have literal space magic in Unicorn
>>12439882
How in the hell is predicting what is gonna happen/having the dead speak to you/etc the effect of adapting to space
the way i see it the one year war would probably be the way people become newtypes. cause only psychics could survive the war
>>12439950
Because it becomes necesary to survive?
>>12439963
And on earth it isn't?
I guess it's bullshit, but my headcanon was that newtypes were evolving their 6th sense because man was spending time in space, meaning their standard senses would be in constant disarray. Perhaps at some point in Char's dream future, Newtypes would be able to survive in a vacuum using telepathy to communicate with each other.
>>12439950
In X they say that "newtype" is just a new word for a rare ability that has always existed and has nothing to do with migrating to space.
In UC one might argue that spending a lot of time around minovsky reactors might be mutating people, kinda like how being bombarded with GN particles affects people in 00.
Either way, the fact that people were living in space colonies for 70+ years before newtypes "appeared" and the fact that for the next 150 years they didn't get any more common than they were in 0079 means it is clearly not the next stage of human evolution. Tomino has now added another era of over 1000 years of space colonization wherein the entire population is still "oldtype".
Then again, official canon is that G actually happens an undefined time after UC, and there are people with super powers that put Jedi to shame, so maybe early UC's newtypes are just the harbingers of a mass evolution that happens later on (and is evidently undone before Turn A or whatever other series come after G but before ∀).
Have you ever had a conversation die down and realize in the silence that you could hear the clock ticking? The sound was always there, but your brain didn't even try to pick it out when there was a bunch of other noise around you. The idea is that you have senses you're not aware of because you're in a situation where they're constantly picking up static from every living thing around you. You can't hear the thoughts of the guy next to you in line because everyone's thoughts just blend together into an indistinct murmur that your mind just filters out because it can't focus on anything.
But then you get out into space, out into a mobile suit. You're literally a miles away from your ship, thousands of miles away from everything else, and you realize that you can "feel" the enemy pilot who is not only the only other living thing for miles but is fixated on killing you. It's not really a new sense, it's just you finally being in a situation where there's nothing drowning out the sensation. Once you've experienced it, it becomes easier to focus on it again, like specifically listening for the sound of the clock ticking. Once you know what it sounds like, you can filter out the other noise and listen for it specifically.
>>12439620
So that's why there were no newtypes in G-Reco?
>>12440010
>>12439972
It's never noticed as much until people start fighting in 0g where said sense makes such a massive difference. Only around that time, too, do they bother properly researching it.
In other words the whole newtype deal might be kind of like VOTOMS 'abnormal survivor', where most of the time someone with that potential never really used or honed it, and most of those that did were just flukes or 'aces', until one crazy ol'bastard managed enough influence and resources to quantify it all.
>>12439882
I personally hand wave that by saying the Unicorn is magic, but newtypes are just literally what they are saying in that image.
>>12440133
I think it was stated specifically that the unicorn was fucking magic and that not even the people who built it understand it.
There are less newtypes post UC because people freaked out over what psychoframe technology was capable of and sealed it away.
Maybe newtypes never really existed (besides mild psychic ability that exists in all humans), and psycho-tech was discovered by crazy zeon scientists who were working with a faulty theory.
They wanted to believe that spaceanoids were the next stage in human evolution, so they ignored any data that contradicted it.
But really It was the bio-computer that made space ghosts appear, not Kamile.
The Unicorn would have had similar results if anybody piloted it. It just happened to be registered to Bannana's DNA.
Char and Amuro are just two very experienced pilots with a shared beef over Lalaha's death. The Axis shock was just the psycoframe reacting to that shared drama.
>>12440082
I like it.
>>12439039
They're weighed down by real gravity.
Zero-G boobs.
They unlock it.
Newtypism defines a genetic capacity for a certain level of extra sensory perception. This gene begins expression both when in the absence of natural gravity (there are supposed nuances between natural and artificial gravity) and in the presence of others who have the potential for this capacity.
In essence, without both space and potential newtypes in close proximity, there can be no newtypes. Zeon Deikun's ideals were that humanity would evolve in some fashion for life in space, he did not define what sort of adaptations would be made. They made a specific note of his vagueness in the movies, I can't remember if it was mentioned in the show as well.
Because newtypism appears to be linked in some manner to genetics, it seems that newtypes can also become extinct.
>>12440216
Why didn't this happen to people in tribes of 70 but happened to people in colonies of hundreds of thousands?
>>12440581
>nuances between natural and artificial gravity
Well artificial gravity is centripetal/centrifugal force, not gravity. It's not a nuance, it's a whole different law of physics holding you to the ground.
However...Amuro began really showing out with his newtype powers on earth, in europe (the Tri-Stars fight comes to mind) before going back out into space.
Also he's apparently from Canada originally.
So...yeah...
Then there's Quess, who was raised on earth, Lalah was raised and discovered on earth iirc, Uso was raised on earth, etc, etc...
Basically the phenomenon called "newtypes" in UC Gundam has fuck-all to do with being in space, it just *seemed* to be fulfilling Zeon Deikun's crazy prophecy about evolved space people.
>>12440581
Is it really genetic though? I think newtypes being pseudo-science or something that anybody could do, with the proper technology (which incidentally is only ever used by people who are described as newtypes or cyber newtypes) enhancing it.
The simplest explanation is that Zeon scientists were more interested in proving Zeon Deikun right, and ignored any evidence that didn't fit the ideology. We never see a control group experiment where a non-newtype tries to use funnels. In fact, it seems like any character in a UC gundam show will eventually start to exhibit symptoms of newtypeness (the conciquenes of being written by Tomino.)
After the universal century, people forgot about newtypes, and incidentally, none of them seemed to show up afterwards. It was an imaginary phenomena.
Some people have good intuition and are fast learners. But these traits aren't decided by some magic gene that only activates in space. Simmilarly, technology exists that can allow you to control machines with your mind, and do crazy reality warping shit. But this technology could be used by anybody if the device is configured for their brainwaves.
Anything else about the future of humanity is really just ideology. Newtypes seem just as capable of starting wars and making tragic mistakes as Oldtypes.
>>12440669
Blah, that first sentence came out wrong. It should read.
Personalty I think another possible explanation would be that newtypes are either pseudo-science or something that anybody could do given the right circumstances.
>>12440669
>Newtypes seem just as capable of starting wars and making tragic mistakes as Oldtypes.
Understanding a persons feelings does not make you less likely to fight. It just lets you understand why you are killing them.
>>12440664
Amuro was never really just some regular kid in space. Even in early episodes, people were on about how it was ridiculous how well he could pilot the gundam. Sure he read the manual and there was the learning computer, but he had a certain level of finesse that one would not expect from someone who was completely untrained. Maybe he was big on vidya like Uso.
At any rate, genes cannot simply appear out of nowhere. Being in space will not dictate that a certain gene will mutate in a certain way, which is why I mentioned potential and gene expression.
>>12440669
It would be very interesting, but I don't think that was the intention.
I like to headcanon the genetics thing, but it's more than likely just mysticism.
>>12440743
Amuro had the Gundam and the learning computer. He might have had some abnormal talent waiting to be developed, but that doesn't indicate a new species of humanity, some people learn faster or are just naturally good at things.
Char on the other hand spent his whole life becoming the red comet. His accomplishments can be explained with hard work and guts.
>>12440010
Well even people living in space are probably in colonies where they have artificial gravity simulated, so it would really only make sense for people subjected constantly to zero g environments to really grow (hence why newtypes are so rare)
>>12440743
>genes cannot simply appear out of nowhere.
But mutations can just happen out of nowhere. The crux of evolution is on beneficial mutations persisting.
Also newtypism might have to do more with knowing/growing up in an environment where you can easily experience zero g. It might not be "evolution" persay, but there are numerous studies that show even now brains are slightly changed based on the internet, social media, and other facets of life today that haven't been around anywhere long enough for actual evolution to have occurred. The brain is very malleable and newtypes are mainly known for their cognitive abilities not physical
>>12438362
10 points for the Sun Ra reference
>>12439423
He's at my uni almost everyday. I should have a buddy ask if he's a Newtype/Autist
>>12439847
Victory is mediocre but better than average, X is simply terrible.
>>12438299
Amuro was an earthling though.
My headcanon is that Newtype always existed but their particular 'power' use minovsky particle as a medium.
Said another way, this was a random mutation that gave no veritable advantage before people started to live in environment with a lot of Minovsky particles, something common with space habitat.
Bearing in mind that minovsky reactor do not mutate people into newtype.
>>12443064
Wouldn't newtype fetuses throw a wretch in your theory?
>>12443071
I don't see what you mean. I'm missing a few UC show, is there one with newtype fetus ? Do you mean fetuses communicating through newtype power ? Well, maybe they do but it's not noticeable.
MSG ended with the 3 kids guiding Amuro like full fledged newtype.
The only problem with my theory is if there Newtype shenanigan happening in place there never was any minovsky activity in a while.
>>12439847
Correct.
>>12443222
>I don't see what you mean. I'm missing a few UC show, is there one with newtype fetus ?
Victory. The webm wasn't for show.
>Newtype shenanigans happening in place there never was any minovsky activity in a while.
Impossible since all "newtype magic" is powerful psyco waves attracting minovsky particles. Newtypes, however, have their standard reading of people's emotions regardless.
>>12438335
>>12439290
>>12439343
I am not disagreeing, but 1: we have only just begun experimenting with space, 2: there have been people in space for no more than 6 months at a time, and 3: evoloution works sloooooowly.
There would have to be several generations be born, grow up, and reproduce in space before we start to see any changes.
There is a possibility by Amuro's time there would be significant changes to the homo genome, but probably not physic newtype craziness. Then again, in nature anything is possible.
>>12443300
Never saw Victory (shame on me), anyway I can only attempt some sort of special conditions to keep all maternity from starting the "Childhood's End" plots.I have never actually read the book, I just know about children becoming an hivemind
> Newtypes, however, have their standard reading of people's emotions regardless.
As long as there was minosky particles around I'm okay with my theory. (who know if those leave some sort of long living radiation)
At least its not Midi-chlorian
>>12439882
But there's been literal space magic since Zeta.
And a confirmed afterlife where people can occasionally come back to influence future events. (And apparently to fuse with their own clones like Puru in ZZ)
>>12443441
>3: evoloution works sloooooowly.
evolution only works when the mutation allows you to breed more and the lack of it causes you to die before you breed more
>>12439033
>>12439039
>>12440244
>thinking newtypes actually just come from being in space
I still say it's war that makes them. That's why they're talked about as old and in the past in F91 and in G-Reco they're a legend. They don't show up when there's peace.
>>12445045
Honestly, both seem to be factors. Though it's less space in and of itself, and more the fact space can kill you.
NT skills ultimately seem to be born out of a heightened survival instinct, given the skills tend to emerge often in times of crisis and are about making sure you stay alive longer.
Satisfaction is, of course, not guaranteed across the board, but NT abilities can help.
So I'd say it's less space itself that's the issue, and more the idea of the fact having a heightened spacial awareness will increase your chances of not dying out there.
Also explains why desk jockeys like Gihren don't show abilities while people like Challia Bull, who has to make the H-3 runs out to Jupiter and back do.
>>12443441
It was just a hippie theory, there's no hard scientific evidence to back it up. As you said, real evolution happens slowly, and supposedly by the time of Gundam, generations have been born and reproduced in space.
