Just saw this Pacific Rim. Why do the Jaegers get damaged/knocked over so easy? Why can the Kaiju literally tear them limb from limb? Why the Jaegers aren't strong enough to do the same? Why the Jaegers don't have flight? How could a handful of helicopters pick them up? They should have had those transport ships like in Gundam, you know the ones I mean. This Jaegers just seem like cheap shit, if they are so slow and clumsy then they should have heavy armor and many more weapons like maybe breast fire or rocket punch or something. Thoughts on this?
>>14258021
>Thoughts on this?
I ain't reading all that shit.
>>14258021
>They should have had those transport ships like in Gundam, you know the ones I mean.
What, like Dodais or Base Jabbers?
Apparently the robots could not be given super-powerful ranged weaponry due to the nature of the monsters they were fighting leaving really nasty residue.
I don't like PR.
>>14258066
Well that fails to explain why the red one has buzz saws and the Gypsy Danger has wrist swords/blades. Why not use blunt trauma only, and I don't mean boats or shipping containers! You know an actual super alloy mace/club/bat whatever!
The Jaegers seem really ineffective, maybe it's to show the Kaiju adapting and becoming more powerful I don't know. Well, it's not like we'll ever get another /m/ movie desu...
Also when they say Gypsy is analog what do they mean by this exactly? You're telling me that 0% of that cyberpunk brain computer interface suspension treadmill apparatus is digital?
>>14258117
The cutting weapons cauterize the wounds they make immediately.
> Why do the Jaegers get damaged/knocked over so easy? Why can the Kaiju literally tear them limb from limb?
The Kaiju have been getting bigger. The Catagorey system that rates them has been only going up for a long time. They mostly end up fighting 4's when the programs had already started to fail to 3's.
>How could a handful of helicopters pick them up?
Magic
>This Jaegers just seem like cheap shit, if they are so slow and clumsy then they should have heavy armor and many more weapons like maybe breast fire or rocket punch or something.
Real robots lies and all, they generally were rush jobs. They're also expensive and started to fail regularly. So they were being phased out for the useless wall.
Each Kaiju attack is stronger than the last.
The Jaegers are few in number and need constant maintenance.
>>14258021
>f they are so slow and clumsy then they should have heavy armor
It's amazing they're standing as is.
>gigantic mechs are proportionally slow
>a good hit takes a chunk off them
>one decisive move can bring them down
>consequently battles consists of only few exchanges yet are very frantic and violent
Exactly why I love it, desu.
OP types like some kid from Facebook who saw nothing but Gundam so I ain't gonna bother.
>>14258021
>Why are the bad guys in a work of fiction strong?
Do you seriously not understand?
>>14258117
>Also when they say Gypsy is analog what do they mean by this exactly? You're telling me that 0% of that cyberpunk brain computer interface suspension treadmill apparatus is digital?
I cringed so hard when they said this. Big fucking robot telepathically linking it's two pilots powered by what? Fucking clock gears and steam power?
>>14259735
This.
And when they said it had no alloys in its construction, as if building a giant robot out of pig iron was something to be proud of.
And the fact that they can be picked up by CH-46s.
And the acidic blood thing not actually existing outside of the opening narration.
There was not a lot of thought put into the production of this movie.
>>14258021
>Why do the Jaegers get damaged/knocked over so easy?
HK Kung-Fu Cinema 101, the heroes are weaker and fight up from hell. They take the biggest beatings but they win through long drawn out brawls where their perseverance overcomes the stronger villain.
>his Jaegers just seem like cheap shit, if they are so slow and clumsy then they should have heavy armor and many more weapons like maybe breast fire or rocket punch or something.
It's still a western film unfortunately. Westerners just don't believe in the fantastic when it comes to machinery. A lot of recurring elements in Japanese mecha media stems from animist beliefs. Western mechs are still just lumbering machines. At least they tried in PR. Gypsy has a big American shoulder swinging, leg kicking gait; Eureka is an angry hunchbacked aussie; and so forth.
>>14258659
Also each Kaiju attack increased in frequency and they evolved over time, posession shit like EMP and acid
>>14258021
>Just saw this
If you didn't watch it when it was in theaters back in 2014 you're a newfag
When Pentecost is stumbling out of Coyote, you can catch a glimpse his circuitry suit flashing briefly underneath his armour (look under the armpit). So even without the Serna Scanner scene, we can assume he has circuitry burns just like Raleigh.
>>14259901
>not wasting money to see something in the shittiest way possible means you're a newfag
???
>>14259808
>>14258117
You're taking it too literally. GD is older but it's sturdy, like the engine it could. It's not literally analog, just probably have hardened simpler circuitry that the emp didn't take out.
>>14259930
The 3D IMAX was the best fampai.
Can we talk about the other jaegers, like matador fury and ronin?
>>14259943
Except that those lines clearly aren't meant to be metaphorical. It's bad writing.
Really, just about everything bad about Pacific Rim can be blamed on the script, which if you know anything about the production history of the movie the script in particular was always a mess. The final product was basically parts of 2-3 older drafts smashed together and it shows.
>>14258117
>Analog
Probably meant that Gypsy, belonging to the older generation, had a tougher circuitry shielding, what with having a nuclear reactor and all.
>>14261831
The wording on that still doesn't make sense though, analog doesn't mean tougher.
>>14259808
>And when they said it had no alloys in its construction, as if building a giant robot out of pig iron was something to be proud of.
This bothered me so much. Even my younger sister complained about this one.
>>14259808
>acidic blood thing
Anon did you turn your brain off?
>>14261831
This. I thought the "Nuclear." that comes right after would make it obvious that he's talking about power sources. But yeah, let's just ignore the word that actually gives some semblance of context.
>>14263136
>confusing euphemism for nuclear
IT'S JUST LIKE ONE OF MY JAPANESE ANIMES!
>>14258021
>Why do the Jaegers get damaged/knocked over so easy? Why can the Kaiju literally tear them limb from limb?
Probably the same reason why any other human or animal can cause you to get knocked over or cause you serious injury.
>Why the Jaegers aren't strong enough to do the same?
They can to some degree. Watch the Hong Kong battle.
>Why the Jaegers don't have flight? How could a handful of helicopters pick them up?
They probably don't have flight capabilities because they'd have to devote a large portion of the design just for it that. The helicopter thing is pretty fishy, but it gets the point across. Or you could just believe that the PPDC just developed the technology so that it's possible. This is science fiction after all...
I would have enjoyed this movie more with a few minor changes to make it less insultingly stupid
>no wall
>make the blades and cannons some kind of heat-cauterizing weapons that don't draw blood.
>Transport the jaegers properly, Normal little helicopters are you fucking retarded?
>A little more effort on the fight choreography
>no cast iron. Nigger please.
>>14267069
> make it less insultingly stupid
Nigga you corny
>>14266876
>Or you could just believe that the PPDC just developed the technology so that it's possible. This is science fiction after all...
If we're going to go that route, why not choose something that isn't as visually jarring as a couple little helicopters carrying a fuckhuge robot?
PacRim has a long expository opening that explains the setting, but then 90% of that narration is completely irrelevant and throughout the rest of the movie are moments that just don't make any obvious sense.
>>14258117
Theyre more like weapons of last resort.
>>14259943
I always saw it as being hydraulic and not powered by solenoids. Some electronics, but shielded from EMP like a car.
>>14268326
>visually jarring as a couple little helicopters carrying a fuckhuge robot?
What's so "visually jarring" about helicopters lifting things?
>>14268553
Can a couple of helicopters lift a whole city block? Of Lower Manhattan?
Dougram hauls them in via helicopter team too, doesn't it?
>>14268563
No. This is science fiction in case you forgot. The very idea of giant robots is implausible itself.
>>14268578
This. I showed up for giant robots, I'm down for a ride.
>>14268563
They're really good helicopters.
>>14258021
You do understand the point of the Kaiju, right? Every time they lose, their masters breed a new type that is designed to destroy whatever killed the last one. The Jaegers were weak in comparison because the Kaiju were designed to kill those specific Jaegers.
GD was the best weapon because since it was out of commission for so long, the Kaiju weren't adapted to fight it. That was also why Slattern, despite being category 5, needed backup.
>>14258021
>they should have heavy armor and many more weapons like maybe breast fire or rocket punch or something. Thoughts on this?
Gipsy Danger has breast fire, Striker Eureka goes one better and has a magnificent array of chest-mounted cannon.
>>14268553
You'll notice that chopper is hauling something much smaller than itself.
In PR it only takes four choppers to carry an 80m tall machine weighing thousands of tons.
If that doesn't look weird to you, you're a dingus.
>>14269305
You are watching a movie in which giant robots fight inter-dimensional aliens from under the sea and yet you get hung up on how they transport said robots.
>>14269338
Why defend the indefensible? This movie would be better without the "hey hang on a minute.. that's fucking retarded" moments like the helicopters and cast iron.
You probably would have been ok with one tv-news helicopter carrying jaegers by itself.
>>14269338
This is the dumbest fucking thing anyone can say about science fiction.
Giant robots and interdimensional aliens are made up. They work how the creators decide they work.
Helicopters, believe it or not, actually exist. They follow certain rules, and depicting them in a way that disregards those rules without explanation is a mistake. The fact that they exist alongside made-up things like giant robots and aliens doesn't change that.
>>14269353
The giant robots and aliens are infeasible to begin with. The point being is that you have a big disparity in which you choose to suspend disbelief. It's like you quit eating the steak becausei the potatoes weren't seasoned enough.
>>14269399
So you want the 2000 copters it really takes? Or some other delivery system no one cares about because it's about the robot fights?
>>14269399
A robot the size of Gypsy Danger can walk around just fine and ignore its weight but as soon as you introduce helicopters it's a problem? I dunno man.
>>14269409
Underground elevators ala Evangelion would be sweet to see. Hell, an entire city that's a battleground like Tokyo-3.
>>14269405
It's more like you're assuming the burnt potato skins are actually actually great because you liked the steak.
Steak and potatoes are different things. Statements made about one don't automatically apply to the other.
>>14269405
I can suspend my disbelief only so far. Giant robots are infeasible, but you can make it work so long as it's not too apparent. Having a small thing pick up something much larger than itself is universally silly. Like imagine if the Gundam MkII could carry the giant Psycho Gundam. It'd look silly too. Don't get me wrong, I do love Pacific Rim. However this thing in particular was a bit silly. Why couldn't they just have designed massive super helicopters or something?
>>14269417
Yeah like a gundam stopping a colony drop
>>14269437
Meant for
>>14269426
>>14269437
Doesn't that scene show that the mobile suits are physically incapable of the task and what actually saves everybody is literal newtype space magic?
>>14269353
>"hey hang on a minute.. that's fucking retarded"
Interdimensional ayy lmao giant monsters notwithstanding?
>>14269471
You realize it's okay to think the aliens are retarded too, right?
Because they are.
>>14269426
Sounds more like a nonsensical person issue on your part
>>14269450
Asshole response: Naw it was psycoframe tech
Regular: Yes.
Point is they took the effort to add a few choppers. Scifi already pisses the engineers in nerds. But when you're already into an interdeimensional right with impossible monsters and robots: I don't care about the choppers. Though I don't imagine you care about this too much, just that it's highlighted.
>>14269417
That'd kinda' overshadow the Jaegar program being a slapped together regional government effort. Maybe if one city had it, but the program tries to intercept them early, or keep them at the "miracle mile" distance to minimize collateral damage.
>>14269478
>You realize it's okay to think
Wrong board
>>14269426
>I can suspend my disbelief only so far.
That's just it, though. You've accepted that within the story setting the technology exists for giant robots designed to do battle with giant monsters, but the technology for transporting those same robots can't.
>>14269405
The world needs to show consistency. Otachi carrying Gipsy up? Okay, Otachi's actually kinda bigger than Gipsy anyway. gang of helicopters whose combined volume is less than Gipsy's arm? What the fuck is going on.
If they were some sort of futuristic transport with giant thrusters I wouldn't even say anything. It just feels like they forgot something while creating a world with rocket elbow punches and emergency nuclear chest thrusters that can create enough thrust to help a skyscraper-size mech stick a landing from near-orbit orbit.
They're not even cargo helicopters they're just shitty little personnel choppers. It's not just retarded it's fucking lazy.
It doesn't have to be like the giant eva transporters just give us -something- instead of going "hey we've got the cgi model for the chopper that carried the pilot we can just hang the jaeger from a few of those"
I notice nobody is stupid enough to defend the cast iron.
>>14269437
Did you even watch that?
Did you miss the newtype magix?
>>14269529
>they're just shitty little personnel choppers
No they weren't. The tandem rotor design is reminiscent of the Boeing Chinook which implies the helicopters used for Jaeger were designed for heavy transport.
>>14269559
>Did you miss the newtype magix?
You mean the newtype magic made possible by psychoframe technology built into the mobile suits.
>>14269510
It can exist though. Clearly they can invent super helicopters big enough to transport the robot, so why don't they use those? No matter how you complicate it, it looks silly to have tiny helicopters carry them.
>>14269575
You'd still need about 500 of them, not 8.
This is what a dedicated heavy lifting chopper looks like. Note the lack of passenger compartment. Because it's for lifting heavy things not transporting troops and their supplies like a chinook.
>>14269579
Yes. The mobile suits can push back axis not with their thrusters, but with the inbuilt magic T that channels Amuros psycho thoughts.
>>14269610
>>14269579
You missed
>>14269503
>>14269607
>This is what a dedicated heavy lifting chopper looks like.
That's funny because the Chinook has a higher maximum take-off weight than the Tarhe (50,000lbs vs 47,000lbs) and a higher cargo capacity, too (21,000lbs vs 20,000lbs).
But we digress. My point is that the helicopters in PR took cues in their design from IRL heavy transport helicopters. The fact is that we don't really know that the helicopters are Chinooks with the same limitations as the real thing which leaves the door open that they were higher performance capacity designs.
>>14269610
If it's given that technology is responsible for such actions to take place, then the result can't be called "magic" at all. Like the GN Particle nonsense from 00.
>>14269690
If a chinook didn't have the passenger/cargo compartment with the loading ramp, reinforced floor etc it would be able to lift even more. That's dead weight on a vehicle whos only purpose is to lift external heavy loads.
>But we digress.
Indeed. Still no amount of you trying to rationalize it will make the scene any less stupid. You'd need hundreds of chinooks to lift gipsy using the ridiculous official weight and something like ten thousand chinooks to lift it's realistic weight.
>>14269774
>till no amount of you trying to rationalize it will make the scene any less stupid.
By that logic, the scene would've been stupid without the helicopters what with the giant robots and all...
>>14269791
No, giant robots in a movie specifically about giant robots aren't stupid. They need to be there, that's a given.
Flying them into the air on a few helicopters is needlessly stupid and lazy. It's literally the stupidest possible thing anyone could come up with for transporting a jaeger.
>>14269864
>Giant robots can be built without collapsing in on themselves and move with relative ease.
>It's impossible to have the technology to airlift the robots with helicopters.
You picked the weirdest thing to have a problem with.
>>14258021
people may shit on pacific rim for all sorts of things but I love and respect PR for being the first /m/ movie to come out in a period of shitty remakes and originality.
I wanted to see a big hollywood movie with giant robots beating the shit outta monsters and they gave me want I wanted, none of that bayformers cgi literal shitstorm of metal debris in the shape of a humanoid but an actual giant mech that is piloted and moves with A LOT of weight behind it, the first time seeing Gipsy move gave me goosebumps like no tomorrow.
>>14270036
unoriginality*
well shit now my post is even more stupid
>>14270003
Ghosts don't exist either but you can still elevate the material into a quality movie that isn't fucking retarded. There's no justification for unnecessary stupidity in any movie unless it's for comedic effect.
Defend the cast iron. Go on.
>>14270058
>Ghosts don't exist either but you can still elevate the material into a quality movie that isn't fucking retarded.
So then why are you so hung up on the helicopters?
>Defend the cast iron. Go on.
Nobody is talking about this. Why are you bringing it up?
>>14270003
That's just it though. They didn't bother making technology that would look like it's capable of lifiting the robots. It looks stupid. Like if a midget held up a hippo, it would look silly, you would say that the hippo should crush the hippo. "Oh well what if the midget has nanomachines that make him super strong" Well if that's the case, then you should be showing that. It's about consistency. Make thw helicopters huge, or give them massive thrusters or something.
Don't get me wrong, I love this film and know when I'm nitpicking. But it does look silly.
>>14270087
I'm not hung up on the helicopters I'm hung up on why anyone would defend deliberately retarded parts of the movie like this.
Are you seriously suggesting that the movie would be worse if they carried the jeagers on a ship or had a giant airlift rig for them?
Do you really think the movie is better for including a line saying gispsy is cast iron?
Of course not but you'll still defend it like it's a fucking crime to point out how retarded it is and doesn't need to be in the movie.
>>14270036
Same, I love the movie because its cheesy and has no real logic. I mean, Gypsy Danger emits a horn to attract Kaiju, and the horn just so happens to fit right into the soundtrack.
Am I the only one who just kinda had their enjoyment of the film deflated when it turned out the chinese and russian jaegers just existed to job quickly and nothing else?
Not only were they the most interesting of the mecha design wise, I wanted to see what each countries technology had to offer, and see everyone work together to fight a greater evil, G Gundam style. Instead you get americans piloting both relivent jeagers, and all the kills going to gipsy, the least interesting of the designs.
>>14270103
>"Oh well what if the midget has nanomachines that make him super strong" Well if that's the case, then you should be showing that. It's about consistency.
I think it goes without saying that if the text has the technology to build giant robots to fight giant monsters, then it's safe to assume that the technology to transport the robots. In the same vain, just because the work doesn't have anybody pooping it doesn't make sense to assume that they don't have bathrooms.
>>14270117
Your problem is not with the movie specifically, but with science fiction in general. To be fair, just about every famous work of sci-fi conflicts with what we know of proven science in one way or another. Sooner or later, a sci-fi story is going to require suspension of disbelief from the audience in order for the story to progress. If you can't approach science fiction with the understanding that it is by definition fantasy, then you should probably just stay away from the genre wholesale. As for the PR, it doesn't break any conventions for a sci-fi story that weren't already common tropes.
>>14270138
>Am I the only one who just kinda had their enjoyment of the film deflated when it turned out the chinese and russian jaegers just existed to job quickly and nothing else?
I'm pretty sure everybody felt dicked about it including the diehard fans.
>I can believe that they can build ludicrously large robots, in a ludicrouely humanoid shape, that are so ludicrously light that they don't collapse under their own weight and can still move about with ludicrous speed agility
>But the idea that they can build helicopters with ludicrous amount of lift is a step too far because I can't handle things lifting things larger that themselves.
>>14270177
>>14270559
What a load of horse shit. You're actually defending a director putting stupid shit in their movie, on purpose.
You're not even trying to claim that it's an artistic choice, a reminder not to take the movie seriously you're just whiteknighting stupidity because why not? I think we're done here this is futile.
>>14270559
Holy fuck, it's simple. The helicopters don't look like they have enough lift to lift the jaegers. I can accept giant robots, but not something that immediately looks visually wrong. This is a movie, not a looneytoon. It's a simple solution too, just make them big sci-fi helicopters. If they can make giant robots, they can make giant helicopters.
>>14270594
>You're actually defending a director putting stupid shit in their movie, on purpose.
Not even close. That's just what you want to think is being said so that you can have something to continue to argue about.
The reality of the situation is that you are unwilling to admit that you really don't like science fiction.
>>14270603
>I can accept unrealistic giant robots.
>I can't accept that a fleet of helicopters can lift giant robots.
That's kind of an unlikely place to halt your suspension of disbelief especially since you readily admitted that you can believe it's possible to build Jaegers that big without having caving in on themselves.
>>14270641
Apples to oranges retard. Only hardcore nerds or engineers understand the details of why a jaeger is physically impossible with current or near future technology. Even a small child knows that a chopper can't lift something a hundred times bigger than itself.
>>14270603
>I can accept giant robots, but not something that immediately looks visually wrong.
Plenty of people think giant robots look visually wrong, and they'd be correct because giant robots are nonsense.
When you're dealing with fictional technology, especially in something pulpy like PacRim were said tech is effectively magic, you're always going to have things that "look wrong".
Would you have liked it more if there was some exposition about the helicopters having gravity damping and Minovsky drives? It would still look the same but there'd be an explicit explanation for what was going on
>>14270660
>Only hardcore nerds or engineers understand the details of why a jaeger is physically impossible with current or near future technology.
I'm sure everyone that isn't a retard will intuitively understand some of the problems with giant robots and why they're not very practical even if they don't know what the square cube law is
>>14270673
Actually if you asked the average moviegoer, that if all of humanity was facing extermination about 10 years in the future and they all worked together to save the earth could they make a giant robot? I'd wager most would say yes, especially the younger ones.
The premise isn't THAT far fetched for the layman. Robots are getting pretty advanced and we've got giant machinery.
>>14270660
>Only hardcore nerds or engineers...
>Even a small child knows...
That's a faulty generalization by way of an inductive fallacy. You don't have to be an engineer or hardcore nerd to understand that Jaegers are implied (or outright stated) to be heavy and you presume that said child knows the max payload of a fictional helicopter and the other logistics of air transporting a Jaeger.
The problem here is the huge disconnect in where to halt suspension of disbelief. The difference between the bar of acceptance between the giant robots and the helicopters is too minute to matter. The audience will either accept the giant robots and helicopters and press on with the story or dismiss both as nonsensical BS. After all, using a helicopter to lift things is much more believable than the giant monster fighting robots with laser hands.
>>14270695
I doubt it given how many people reacted to pacific rim with complaints about gaint robots being silly and comparing it to power rangers and transformers
Guys, can we just stop responding to the two people who come to Pacific Rim threads just to shit on it? The pattern is blatant. The culprit is obvious. It's always the same outer similar few points being presented and always grind ask other discussion to a halt. They are for all intents and purposes trolls, so why keep responding?
>People saying that the helicopters were stupid and that they should have moved it by big truck.
A big truck would have been just as bad. If we're being super realistic about our logistics and transport here then the Jaegers immense weight should collapse any vehicle it lay on like that or if it somehow doesn't then it would cause it to sink into the ground or otherwise render it immobile.
I mean look at the Ratte. One of the reasons the Nazi never made it is because it was so heavy it absolutely destroyed any road it passed over, and a jaeger is even bigger and heavier than that. Going passed that example just look at trains and why they need rails. We don't build enormous land vehicles for a reason.
>thread has doubled
>autists have been reduced to cast iron
>>14270827
Goddamn why do people not like Gipsy? That's like finding Goji boring because he's just a giant lizard with protruding spines.
>>14270879
Honestly that's one of the things that bothers me about watching mechs fight. If they're fighting in a field, there should be fucking huge foot steps everywhere. And fighting in a city? It should be collapsing roads (destroying sewer systems and shit). Not to mention in a city buildings are usually too close together for a mech to realistically move between them without smashing into shit left and right.
I hate the Bayformers, but I do appreciate that they show the robots tearing up the roads and shit as they move around.
Realism fags are cancer, what else is new?
>>14269305
Not to rehash this argument or anything but apparently it's 8 helicopters per Jaeger.
>>14274462
And the helicopters have double rotors, so that's 16 helicopter rotors lifting one Jaeger.
>>14258117
>Well that fails to explain why the red one has buzz saws
China doesn't care about the environment. Nothing new.
>and the Gypsy Danger has wrist swords/blades.
Notice how they used it last? That's because it's a last resort weapon.
>>14269399
It's the future. Why can't they be futurecopters?
>>14275253
It's amazing how many people want to spill kaiju blood directly onto the streets, below of which contains no doubt thousands of citizens in public shelters. It absolutely shatters their "logic" when you consider that.
>>14279328
Nobody cares, now fuck off back to /lit/.
>>14269399
I think fudging the lift capacity of helicopters is by far the most defensible thing in the script and makes for a cooler visual than the entire robot being also a rocketship.
![Conroy-Virtus[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/joh8Baq.jpg "Conroy-Virtus[1].jpg")
>>14279389
I dunno. I think a giant carrier plane like the one in Rebuild 2.0 could have worked nicely, too. And it would have avoided that uncanny valley effect of seeing something familiar do something it shouldn't be able to.
Not that I was hugely bothered by it, though.
>>14279337
What's wrong anon?
>>14275253
Typhoon's blades probably have some sort of cauterizing effect which explains why Otachi almost immediately stops bleeding after it was cut with the saw blades.
>>14274467
It's a fucking shame Crimson Typhoon jobbed hard, I wanted to see more triple armed shenanigans.
>>14279594
Word. Same with Cherno Alpha.
>>14269426
I guess the time that Walker Gallier grabbed that massive ICBM out of the air and threw it must really stick in your craw.
Or any time some fictional superhero lifts the big plane or whatever.
>>14279434
Or maybe make the helicopters really big or something? I dunno, that bit didn't really get to me. The Russian and Chinese guys doing fuck all did, for sure, but the helicopters? Small time thing.
