>books women will never understand
>>8253703
>>8253703
Or anything Greek,
or anything difficult really
Simone Weil wrote a great essay on the Iliad
>>8253703
>typical woman while reading iliad
>WOW Achilles is a real asshole damn
>wtf what did Helen do wrong why can't menelaus just let her go lol
>>8253735
Literally fucking who?
Anyway, I love how you're only argument is
>muh wumman wrote a muh intellectual muh essay
Kek, consider yourself btfod.
>>8253740
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting
>>8253747
>muh irony
>muh x+y = x
>muh y-youre just shitposting
Kek, consider yourself btfod.
>>8253703
new word: smeld: (noun aubergine bird): wen u poop on wen u poop ur own face and it smeld
>>8253738
>typical man while reading Iliad
>this is boring
>fuck it, let's watch some capeshit instead
>>8253703
Books women will never understand : most books before 1945
Books men will never understand : most books after 1945
>>8253758
this post smeld
my diary desu
>>8253761
This is true
I am working on collecting bros that I can throw javelin and recite poetry with under the sun
>books men will never understand
Reminder lesbian love is the purest, most beautiful love and you will NEVER experience it.
>>8253783
love is jew shit
>>8253783
nah, read lacan
its female grooming, not even sex
>>8253786
that's good because sex is for perverts
>>8253703
Most modern men won't truly appreciate either. We've lost our fraternal warrior roots.
The Iliad is just ancient gangster rap. It sucks.
WTF!?! thought 4chan was redpilled . . . .
>>8253786
>implying lacan is right about anything
>psychoanalysis
lmaooooooooooooooo
>>8253703
>>8253804
prepare to cringe
https://youtu.be/4bHoTEV5ncU?t=116
>>8253816
Mr. Monaghanil y a 2 mois
I give you props I read a dozen pages and wanted to burn it lol where u from?
Répondre
absolute madman
>>8253786
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AInfL9PiGHI
listen to this, not sure where the remark is, somewhere in the middle
>>8253757
Fucking true enough.
>omg he's so weird
>what's wrong with him
>why is he so mean to women
>>8253797
even I don't understand this
Marcus is a deeply boring man
>>8253824
42 mins
a lot of pynchon's stuff
and houellebecq
>>8253703
Could you explain why?
>>8253884
If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the explanation either, honey ;)
>>8253763
I think women could easily relate to Holden's Blithe solipsism and puerile idealism
>>8253781
Oh man, let me tell you, it's the shit. I have a couple of active literary bros. We like to go cycling, hiking or practice archery while discussing philosophy and literature. It really is the best possible kind of friendship.
>>8253816
>I didn't understand it so it is bad
Yep, this is definitely a woman reviewer. I think at the very least a man would recuse himself here.
>>8253908
but those are just reactions to his sexual frustration
>>8253818
I hope this is bait
>>8253928
Whatever you say, Harold
>>8253931
but my name isn't Harold?
>>8253931
FUck off Ackley
One of my favorite scholarly writers in regards to analysis and interpretation of Greek Mythology is a woman, Jenny Strauss Clay.
Greek Mythology is as much about women as it is about men
>>8253944
sure, women are the commodities men trade in it, so you might say they are almost equally represented since men can't exist without subjugating women
Odyssey>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Illiad
>>8253783
>I will never be a young maiden who is growing curious about my burgeoning sexuality while wandering my mothers gardens, where I catch the eye of Artemis in the midst of a hunt, who then leads me into the wild woods ensaring me with desire and excitement, where she gives me my first taste of sexual exploration in a hidden spring home of forest nymphs.
>I will never return home to my families estate, not as the inexperienced girl I once was, but as a radiant and beautiful young woman who will one day stand as the powerful Lady of my house who's vision guides the activities of my servants and imbues my home with a lively spirit of warmth and culture
>I will never grow into a respected and admired matriarch who seduces the young beautiful maidens of my estate's grounds while my husband is off in foreign lands campaigning
>>8253972
Illiad>Odyssey
Pretty much anything by pic related.
>>8253969
Most of the heroes of Greek Myth are written to be on a quest to atone for the atrocities a man had committed against a woman and earn atonement in the eyes of their Goddesses. Most are guided and assisted in their times of greatest need by a Priestess of these Goddesses, who are written as true, worthy companions of the hero.
>>8253740
>not knowing who Simone Weil is
>boasting about it
literally end your life my friend
>>8253987
I don't actually support that kind of worldview, it's just a slightly cheeky reading of Homer
>>8253944
met JSC once, she's awesome. Leo would be proud.
>>8253933
Alright, sorry, mistook you for a secondary source there Sigmund.
>>8254005
it's actually sigismund schlomo
>>8254000
I'd love to meet her. I've bought so many of her books and I've never even been to college. What she does is my dream job. I've always felt that Jenny in a way understood her relationship with her father as a sort of Athena/Zeus dynamic.
>>8253995
It's a pretty big misconception that the Greeks didn't value women, or have great women throughout their society. Of course they did not value ALL women, just based on the fact that they were women, but the expression of femininity and particular women were held in high regard.
>>8254035
men valuing women for what they see as desirable isn't actually equality and most non-divine women in Homer are treated as lesser voices, hags or cattle though, but sure, point taken
>>8253766
>Books men will never understand : most books after 1945
Why's that, friend?
>>8254046
This isn't true at all though anon. Women in higher ordered Greek societies were valued by men as intellectual peers, as women who challenged their men in regards to their beliefs and perceptions of life. It was not uncommon for a man to not only value a woman as a passionate lover, but as a source of stimulating intellectual conversation and as a genuine friend and companion.
There are great women throughout all of Greek mythology, and I don't mean great in some sanitized, sentimental sense. These women had just as many failings as men, they were just larger than life figures who stood individuated not only from other women, other people in general.
>>8253984
Sean Connery's not even an author, family.
>>8254046
>Penelope
>>8254063
Jason and Medea, Meleager and Atalanta, Theseus and Ariadne are all prime examples of the principle hero of a myth, who is on a quest at the behest of a Goddess to atone for a past crime against them at the hands of a God or men, who are aided in their quest by a great woman who acts as a Priestess of their Goddess and is admired and respected by the hero as a woman they have to prove themselves worthy of, not someone lesser than them.
>>8253757
Came here to post this.
>>8254063
what isn't true at all? valuing women for the expression of femininity (of your choice) might make you someone that frequents strip clubs, not exactly a hot bed of equality.
as for women in Homer, I do think that's true, these great women in Greek mythology are atleast seriously outnumbered by the great male heroes (since I can't remember every female character I'll grant you that there are some), especially the non-divine ones.
>>8254112
I don't think there are many instances of stories that are inverted (to my knowledge), i.e of a female protagonist valuing the company of men to intellectually stimulate her etc., which would probably be a good measure of something closer to equality, this might be explained by complimentary gender roles (difficult), but I think you're somewhat overarguing your case here
I also think that you're not making enough of a distinction between divine and mortal women
I don't know as much about greek mythology as you do, so I'm only speaking about Homer in the specific sense and antiquity in a larger, non-specific sense.
>>8254072
>someone locked in a room while her wealth is being destroyed by men and her male child is off to save her so her man can return after being the center of the story and restore order while she can't fight off the suitors and cease control of her house herself
ok
>>8254120
>these great women in Greek mythology
meant to say Homer
>>8254029
I actually asked her how was he as a father, and you're quite right. He used to read them a lot (she mentioned Greek and German classics, and Macaulay), and "laughter. There was always a lot a laughter."
Also, if you ever want to work in classics, you definitely need at least college, ideally PhD. I've been learning Greek for 2 years at a uni with a great classics program, and the sheer amount of stuff they force classics students to learn (both linguistic and textual) is impossible to learn otherwise (it would take inhuman capacity of self-discipline, at least for me).
>>8254120
The expression of femininity is not wholly encompassed by sexuality. The feminine aspect of the psyche is the realm of wisdom, of intuitive emotionality, creative artistic expression, passionate romance and the living spirit of one's home and country, the breath of life in the chests of all who live within it's presence. I'm not talking about modern conceptions of modern egalitarianism, I'm talking about the health of womanhood and femininity within their society.
Through the archetypes of the Olympian Goddesses, the Greek men cultivated a varied and expansive understanding not only of the psyches of women, but of the feminine aspects of their own psyches. The expression of women in their writings ranged from domestic mothers to warrior queens, from devoted daughters to insubordinate rebels.
>>8253729
I like mastodon
>>8254178
>The feminine aspect of the psyche is the realm of wisdom
if this is true... why are women so DUMB? lmao
>>8254120
In regards to this sense of inversion, Atalanta displays this quality, as she looks to men to challenge her athletically and values their company as companions and competitors in sport and hunting, and their support and competition with her in great gatherings of heroes such as the Olympics and the Calydonian Boar Hunt.
Also, I find it strange that you consider Penelope's fervent loyalty to her husband and the courage and ambition of her son as negative traits, when these are two of the reasons she is regarded as great woman. You're trying to make her faithfulness and fortitude out as weaknesses.
>>8253738
Even the ancient Greeks agree he's a dick
>>8254199
Archetypal conceptions of masculinity and femininity are beyond any individual man or woman. We each have a masculine and feminine aspect of our psyche. The masculine is the realm of knowledge, form, authority and order, and the feminine is the realm of wisdom, spirituality, intuition and creativity.
>>8254246
damn...
>>8254244
He's a tragic figure who experiences an inner pain just a great as the pain he inflicted outwardly in the world. Everything he did is understandable within the context of his nature.
>>8253729
I THINK THAT SOMEONE IS TRYING TO KILL ME
>>8254136
I agree, I've been trying to learn Koine Greek from various books by myself, but it's extremely difficult, and I turn to escapism so easily. I'd like to back to school, but I'm just not interested in acquiring so much debt
>>8253916
after the /lit/ part the combination of hiking and cycling makes me mad jelly. If i had that plus climbing buddy i'd be in heaven.
>>8253944
>Greek Mythology is as much about women as it is about men
I read the same thing about The Trojan Women and I agree. it's great play but it made me sad, out of all of the work I've read by Euripides it hit me the hardest.
>>8254251
The way I see things, the soul of a person and the soul of a nation is not healthy if the conception of the masculine and the feminine are not unified, standing hand in hand as something more than what they are as understood apart from one another. Men and women are meant to complete one another spiritually, emotionally and intellectually. A society that views women as inferior and subjugates them reflects the poor spiritual health of it's people, where a healthy society will be brimming with passionate, idealistic women who emanate the spirit and glory of their people. One of the greatest expressions of healthy masculinity within men is the structure of their civilization allowing for women to arise as Queens in their homes and in their nation who carry within themselves the authority and ideals of their society.
>>8254326
>Men and women are meant to complete one another spiritually, emotionally and intellectually.
i'm mad gay, not sure what to say here.
>>8254330
I suppose my thinking could be considered hetero normative, as it asserts the notions that the form of psychological and spiritual completion is the form of a married man and woman, the marriage of the masculine and the feminine as one.
>>8254288
It wouldn't be a proper Greek tragedy without horrific suffering and misery.
Cassandra is among my favorite women within Greek mythology. Her curse is so cruel, to know how all the horrors that will take place around her will unfold while all of her efforts to avoid them are doomed to fail against the currents of fate that are already in motion. She is left to descend into insanity as she watches her family and her home walk into a destruction she saw from the beginning.
>>8253979
Bad post
>>8254120
Sure Penelope had a hard life at the hands of men, but Odysseus was having a hard life at the hands of women at the same time. She was shown to have virtue, honor and cunning, all positive traits.
How do I increase my attention span? I'm trying to read more, but I always stop reading after half an hour. Any tricks you guys use?
>>8254516
when i start to do something else i stop doing that thing and start reading again
>>8253783
Sappho was a filthy niggeress. Her poetry is pretty awful too. The only two reasons it is revered are:
1. It is lesbian poetry.
2. It is fragmentary and thus in an awful and incomplete condition, which seems to give postmodernists a boner. It gave Pound a throbbing boner, for sure.
>>8254516
I'm much more concentrated after I jack off for some reason.
>>8253729
It's kind of funny that of all boards /lit/ is mysogynistic. If anything the most capable readers I know are all women. With that said, the biggest poseurs are females as well, but that's your fault for hanging around the wrong people.
>>8254645
Yeah, it doesn't work if you don't stab him
>>8253783
>Reminder lesbian love is the purest, most beautiful love and you will NEVER experience it.
That fuckin feel when
>>8253703
Irene de Jong disagrees. Her commentary on Book 22 fucking insane, one of the best I've read. Stop being so edgy.
>>8254993
>>8254631
>Pound
>Postmodernist
>>8253896
You forgot to tip your fedora.
>>8253984
I recall fellow female students of mine being triggered by Robert Jordan calling Maria a "rabbit",
>>8253783
She wasn't even a lesbian in the modern sense of the word, the pussy pleasing kind. She was a Lesbian as in, a native of Lesbos. It's all a big misunderstanding.
>>8253783
>poetry about the passion and pain of loving a woman
>men will never understand this
>>8254993
>what is transsex
you can't bring my dreams down
>>8255197
Lesbian means what it does today for a reason, you idiot.
Narcissism is the purist for of love. Purity is over-rated
it's quite likely that greek myths were invented and transmitted by women nursing children
sage
>>8253986
Is that what they teach in universities nowadays?
>>8255197
...
>>8255218
That can't be true. Did you read that somewhere or did you figure it out on your own? Either way, I wish I was as intelligent and self-content as you, anon.
>>8253703
Virginia Woolf read it in Greek, fucktard. Which she taught to herself as a teenager. I would be careful before talking of limits of understanding. What have you done?
>>8255253
gaydar.net
>>8255239
[citation needed]
>>8255205
>men
>loving
Good one.
>>8254694
/lit/ actually isn't though. Look at any other thread where the poster is misogynistic and he gets ignored, told to fuck of to /pol/. This is the one board that ISN'T misogynistic (or nationalistic, etc, general /pol/-garbage).
>>8255391
This.
Don't fall for the men meme, sisters.
>>8253792
Yea and dat gin and juice man..
