J. R. R. Tolkien vs George R. R. Martin edition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0
Previous thread: >>8003215
>Fantasy
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/3v2oXAY.jpg
General: http://i.imgur.com/igBYngL.jpg
Flowchart: http://i.imgur.com/uykqKJn.jpg
>>8005960
>J. R. R. Tolkien vs George R. R. Martin edition.
As disgustingly offensive as a "Christianity vs Dianetics" thread would be. Only a diseased American mind can be this degenerate.
>>8005960
Tolkien won.
>>8006315
What kind of argument is "he wears hat all time time" ???
>>8006582
*the
/lit/ I need your help.
I'm trying to remember the name of a fantasy novel that was posted about in one of these threads last summer. If I recall correctly, the title was "the" followed by one word. I think the word may have started with a "v," but I might be remembering incorrectly. The novel had a reputation for having somewhat complex prose. It was not part of a series, and I believe it was either published in 2014 or 2015.
I've looked just about everywhere for it, but I can't find any novels that fit that description.
DELET THIS
YOU CAN'T HAVE THE FANTASY WITH JUST THE SCI-FI
>>8006953
The Vagrant fits the bill.
>>8005960
why is Boromir on the opposite side? How could the artist make such a simple mistake
How do I get into Terry Pratchett? What are his best works?
>>8006953
The Vobbit
Tolkien hands down. His prose are meaningful, powerful and endlessly descriptive. His world building is bar-none, his tales are truly epic, coherent and actually finished without needing 7 1000 page novels.
>tfw you'll never read that passage about Gimli losing his shit in the darkness on the paths of the dead for the first time ever again
DELET THIS
>>8003215
>>8003215
>>8003215
>>8007030
Small Gods.
>>8006991
Shitty book
>>8007029
Nice meme
>>8005960
>J. R. R. Tolkien vs George R. R. Martin edition.
The only people who can possibly think those two are comparable are those who only watch the movies/shows. Martin is a terrible writer, even for a fantasy writer.
>>8006315
I love this
>>8005960
>Epic rap battles
That's the most unfunny shit on youtube. It's terrible and stupid.
Tolkien is better and more prolific than Martin is in every single way. The man practically invented high fantasy.
This thread fucking sucks, and isn't worth this reply. I guess you got what you wanted.
GRRM no question and it's not close
>>8006953
the vorrh
>tfw too ADD to write anything but short stories
>tfw my best short stories will never be finished
>>8005960
Fun fact: I was the first person to call for this battle back in season 2. Glad to see my tax dollars at work.
>>8006953
The Varry potter
>>8007785
DELET THIS
>>8005960
>>8008121
Stop being a faggot and write it down already.
>>8008121
I can't even focus long enough to write a short story.
>>8006315
I actually kind of like the hat.
Besides that, completely accurate.
Is there anything good with a little girl protagonist?
>>8008776
Mistborn
>>8005960
that image is so terribly drawn
>>8008944
Thanks man
Please recommend me a book
Love swords n sorcery fantasy books.
My favorites are probably Sword of Truth series and Words of Radiance are pretty good.
Really must focus on a hero(s) with a quest.
Dislike ones that are focused around armys and huge battles and not a fan of zombies/apocalyptic at all.
TY
Holy shit! What shitty Tumblr artist did they hire to make this awful cover?
>>8009409
>Love swords n sorcery fantasy book
Elric of Melniboom
Conan
Fafhrd
Legend, Imaru
>>8009435
I can't seem to into the top 4.. not the sort of sword and magic wielding heroies I can love - also I despise really short books and short stories. Gotta have 2-3+ books at least
Not sure what legend imaru is, can't pull anything on google
>>8009479
Legend
Imaru
>>8008776
The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson
>>8005960
Should I continue to read Earthsea? The entirety of the first book is pretty "meh", and the second doesn't look much better.
>>8009625
no its a meme
>>8009625
>
>le guin
I warned you about female authors being shit.
They're never good.
At most they're slightly below Sanderson. (shit)
>>8009625
It's not that bad to be honest, I liked all of them, very quick to read..
Seems very.. conceptual though more than anything - A lot of "and then this happened, and then he did this" rather than actually being told as it happens
>>8008121
Nigger it's got nothing to do with ADHD, real or memetic. You're just an uncommitted faggot, one way or another.
WoT > ASOIAF
Robert Jordan is the "American Tolkien" not that diabetic sack of shit
Wait are we breaking off from the SF? I can understand it but I don't think either of these genres have enough following here for their own threads.
>>8009845
Fantasy have, Sci-Fi doesn't :)
>>8009845
SF unironically cucked itself into non-existence with their identity politics, we had to purify them.
who /bakker/ here ? recommend me a more inteligent book. protip,you can't...
How do I into balancing magic?
I don't want it to be grossly overpowered, but at the same time, it's really fucking difficult to do that without a bunch of arbitrary rules that make no sense or have no real logicallolmagiclogicpoint to them. I have the basics figured out so that one rando with magic can't just one-shot an army, but when it comes to people combining magic power, I don't know how to make that not-OP without making it virtually inaccessible.
>tfw burned out
I can't read more than 10-20 pages in one sitting. Taking breaks don't help. What do?
>>8006953
The Varnia
ASOIAF is trash and Martin is gutter tier compared to Tolkien. Malazan book of the fallen is a MUCH better read.
>>8010234
I assume you're writing a book and not some video game so here's some advice from some anon with nothing to his name:
a)Magic systems are generally YA stuff. 'Magic system' is kind of an oxymoron but we've become so jaded to magic that it's normal to 'cast a fireball' or 'do a spell'. The magic I enjoy reading about comes from knowing the turnings of the world, a feat out of reach for almost everyone. If every random can do a magic alla Harry Potter I lose interest in the magic itself.
b)Figure out some rules for your system if you're going for it anyway. Make them consistent and change them depending on the story you're telling. If you want to write about magic that can one-shot an army, that's cool, but now wars are not fought with armies but with wizard duels. If you make fireballs less powerful then consider why people would train archers instead of wizards. You're doing fantasy, the more impact your made-up things have in your world the better.
c)Stay away from the video game mana cliche. Even if you're writing a fanfic, reading that someone is out of mana is boring. If you want to limit spellcasting there are a thousand better alternatives than mana (scrolls, brainpower, metals, blood).
>>8010234
Why don't you just take a page out of Sandersons book?
1) It's inherited through genetics
2) It's absurdly expensive
3) It's limited in range and power
or Jack Vance
1) Good fucking luck trying not to mindwipe yourself trying to force more than 2 spells in your brain
IT'S LIVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSabeGChdAI
>>8010325
god bless this man
>>8010325
shoo shoo American politics
>>8010331
I'm confused, what are you trying to make fun of?
>>8010320
At least it's a dank maymay, unlike sci-fi
>>8005960
Just bought the Sword of Shannara by Terry Brooks
how pleb am I?
>>8010349
B-but muh Baxter/Reynolds teamup!
>>8010358
Objective Terry Rankings:
Goodkind<<<<Brooks<<<<<Pratchett
so mid-pleb but it could be worse.
>>8006582
he wears hat ALL time time
>>8010288
Thanks for the advice. Appreciate it. Those are good points. Though, I'll disagree with having a system for magic being YA. Without some rules or limitations, it becomes extremely easy to say "Well, this worked out because the guy used magic." In what I'm working on, everyone has the potential to use magic. So I want to set heavy limitations on how strong it can be in the hands of your average Joe, so when someone that's exceptional at it comes along, it makes everyday magic seem inconsequential. Basically, I want magic to be relatively common, but the focus of the stories to be on its incredible users.
Stuff likeEragonfrom my childhood always annoyed me because it became very broken very fast. With essentially zero effort, someone could just wreck an entire army, which was really unappealing to me.
Harry Potter was also a bit "eh" because magic was so commonplace and there was nothing that would set one person above another. Voldemorrt was supposed to be powerful, but there was nothing that actually set him above others. Everyone had access to the same spell library, so why was he so strong compared to everyone? It was underwhelming.
I'm trying to hit a reasonable median. Something where magic is interesting, makes sense, but has reasonable limitations so as not to invalidate, as you say, archers over wizards.
Where I'm at right now, it isn't a rule-heavy system. A lot of it varies between individuals and the amount of training put into it. As it stands, magic can be incredible, but not for zero effort. However, I also want to have a system of people combining their power together that exponentially increases magic potential. The thing is, right now, this could really easily be exploited and broken, which is what I'm trying to avoid.
And yeah, I agree. Screw mana.
>>8010365
Oh good
I also read the first 73 pages of Erikson's Gardens of the Moon
so maybe that counters it
>>8006953
The Vord of the Rings?
>>8010347
>I'm confused, what are you trying to make fun of?
Kingkiller, Christopher Stasheff, David Weber etc.
Magic actually being magic and not technology/science is becoming increasingly rare.
>>8010383
>>8010398
RITALIN BRUH
>>8010358
It is a blatant point-for-point ripoff of Lord of the Rings. It's obscene.
>>8010436
Well I've never read LOTR so it can be a new experience!
>>8010379
I'd read that desu, sounds pretty fun.
>I also want to have a system of people combining their power together that exponentially increases magic potential
This stands out to me the most, reminds me of the Bondsmagi in the Gentleman Bastards sequence. In most novels, magic teamwork is just everyone casting their spells at the same time so that's a nice change.
>>8010358
Terry's Shannara books are bland, yet filling.I own the first two trilogies :3
>>8010450
Thanks. I've been skirting around the details for years now. I've been slowly developing it in the sense of basic concepts but I've only very recently written them down in a concrete sense.
It's somewhat limited in the sense that people have to be synced up on an intent and mental level. The catch is that the more in-tune people are, the stronger the magic. As it stands, a group of five or six people with strong feelings towards a common goal that know each other pretty well could topple the government with relative ease. That's the real problem here.
>>8010234
Assign arbitrary rules, even if you don't tell the reader. In the end, physics itself is just a series of arbitrary rules anyway.
From there, decide if you want the mysterious kind of magic that no one knows about, or if you want clearly defined magic that's essentially treated just like normal technology to the world's denizens.
>>8010460
Well it's my reward for finishing kafka's Amerika in german
Treating myself
>>8010475
>physics itself is just a series of arbitrary rules anyway.
"No." Physics is joined at the hip to mathematics, which dictate certain absolutes (no creating or destroying energy for example).
>>8010469
That's not a bad thing in itself. That means the power shifts to the devout or the fanatics. Some group in nowhere might be really pumped about toppling the government but if the world works that way, the government is a silver-tongued emperor with a devout 30-something close friends that no one can overthrow, or maybe religion makes fanatic soldiers that can go toe to toe with mages. Point is, if you scale up the challenge you can still have interesting conflict while keeping the MCs powerful.
>>8010532
Energy conservation is violated in General Relativity.
>>8010552
what are you talking about
>>8010406
I have a bottle of adderall that I tried using last night but it didn't do shit. I had it for 2 years so maybe it was expired
So in Foundation and Earth, is it a safe assumption to believe thatthe Solarians were extra-galactic aliens?
>>8010358
Eh. Later books are better. Elf-stones of Shannara was okay from what I remember and I liked the book where Walker Boh fought the 'Four Horsemen', also that trilogy where Walker & Friends goto an island and fight an AI system.And Shannara is actually post-apoc Earth, specifically North America.
>>8010555
In General Relativity, energy is destroyed since spacetime itself is evolving (that is, there is no translationally invariant background).
>>8010598
Doesn't Dark Energy fix that?
This is what happens when we kick the SF guys out.
>>8010555
To clarify what anon means, we know as a fact that space is expanding, not out from a central point but in every space at once everything is getting more distant from everything else.
This is kind of a problem since an object's postion relative to everything else has different potential energy. For example, as two planets get further apart they exert less gravity on each other and the potential energy between the decreases. Normally they need to increase speed to do this, getting an equal amount of kinetic energy, but when spacetime expands there is no increase in velocity. The energy is just lost
Oh god, this story was going so well until I had to start writing human interactions. This is fucking painful
>“Thank you for your generosity,” she spoke with a thick Thracian accent, “can you tell me how long I was asleep?”
>“Only a day,” Polybius replied as he poured her a bowl of lentil soup, “you’re quite fortunate to recover so quickly.” It was a rich broth made from onions, garlic and green olives. Sheep’s milk cheese had been crumbled into it, a favorite of the family. While the boys drank heartily from their bowls, the girl dabbed at it looking guilty with a hunk of barley bread in her shaking hand. “Are you cold?” Polybius asked. “I’m certain we have another chiton about the place.”
>“No,” she replied, “thank you but I’m warm enough already.”
>“You’re shivering,” Anthousa chided.
>“Missus, uh-”
>“-Anthousa,” Anthousa said, “and this is my husband, Polybius.”
>“Thank you, Anthousa, but I am not at all cold. I broke my wrist many years ago and it has not been the same since.”
>>8010746
What threw me off the most is when the lady replies to Polybius in
>“I’m certain we have another chiton about the place.”
>“No,” she replied, “thank you but I’m warm enough already.”
instead of having the lady build on that, trying to dismiss the notion that she's cold, maybe have her thank Polybios for his hospitality and that he's done so much already. Just don't do the 'You're cold" "No I'm not" "Yes you are" thing. Have each line diverge from the previous thought track.
Also the
>>“Missus, uh-”
>“-Anthousa,” Anthousa said, “and this is my husband, Polybius.”
part is kinda cringe. Since you're writing a Greek-esque thing you could get away with the Thracian lady calling Antousa 'kind hostess' without introduction.
Just my two cents (OR DRACHMAS AMIRITE).
>>8010729
>Doesn't Dark Energy fix that?
No.
>>8010532
Mathematics is also arbitrary, Anon.
Because it makes presumptions
Need a good space marines series. Not 40k, and it must have AIs
>>8010830
thank you, is this better?
>“Eat,” Anthousa, said as she poured the guest a bowl of lentil soup, “you must be starving.” It was a rich broth made from onions, garlic and green olives. Sheep’s milk cheese had been crumbled into it, a favorite of the family. While the boys drank heartily from their bowls, the girl dabbed at it looking guilty with a hunk of barley bread in her shaking hand. “Are you cold?” Polybius asked. “I’m certain we have another chiton about the place.”
>“No,” she replied, “thank you but I’m warm enough already.”
>“There’s no need to lie girl,” Anthousa chided, “you’re not burdening us, you’re a welcome guest at our table.”
>“Thank you ma’am,” she replied softly, “but this is much warmer than I’m used to.”
>“You’ve been shivering since you woke. Honestly, it’s no wonder considering what you went through.”
>“Dearest-” Polybius interjected. It was Anthousa’s way to meddle, but he imagined this might not be the sort of thing the girl would like to speak about.
>“My dear husband Polybius dragged you out of a riverbed! How in the names of the gods did you end up there?”
>“You are Polybius?” she said looking at him. He nodded. “I should thank you for saving my life, I can’t imagine many would have done what you did for me, but the truth of the matter is that I didn’t intend to be saved. I was trying to kill myself.”
>>8010890
Mathematics is the only objective thing in that exists. Whether or not its truths can be applied to reality, or whether they have been properly is another discussion entirely, but the math itself is a law of logic
>>8010234
Make it limited to very few, and have over-exertion of it be lethal.
-follow a typical 'use the body as a medium for the energy of the world/universe', tied in with the former so that forcing too much of this energy through oneself at once is harmful
-in addition, make use of magic slowly kill like exposure to radiation, and in addition make widespread use harmful to the 'balance'
-training in magic requires 'attunement' that more often than not kills the student due to inability to control energy flow (and low resistance to energy)
-spells, augmentation, transfiguration, etc. requires memorization and various tools, some of which are very large, complex, and impractical to transport.
-limit specialization to attunement
Essentially, make it a science like Alchemy rather than a science like modern Physics.
This is all stolen and very uncreative, so feel free to fix that. But the basis of it being something mysterious yet studied, dangerous, and gated to the most dedicated (no Gary Stu that can do everything at no cost to himself or the 'balance') and you have a system that still remains magical.
>>8010934
>logic
Logic is also arbitrary.
Mathematics is presumptuous and thereby built upon an arbitrary basis.
>>8010934
Is the Continuum Hypothesis "objectively" true or false?
>this entire thread
>>8010987
Hi scififag
You seem upset
>>8010986
it has neither been proven nor disproven. just because a truth exists does not mean we as humans have found it
>>8010234
Vance handles it by having wizards not give a single flying fuck about the affairs of men. They are busy creating life in vats and robbing each other blind and getting themselves killed/insanity/trapped on their adventures in outer-space/other-dimensions.
In Lyonessee for example, wizards are perfectly capable of destroying whole armies, but their all running around raping peasant girls and blowing up trolls and keping that giant dude in the ocean from tearing the whole continent apart.
Lyonessee reads like a fantasy adventure, but the with short stories inserted at various points that follow the adventures of wizards which don't necessarily relate to the central plot.>>8010249
>>8010249
Audiobooks?
Gym session before reading?
Aderral?
>>8011008
I didn't ask whether it has been proven. It has already be proved that the CH is independent of the axioms of ZFC. The question is whether it has an objective truth value.
>>8010574
Please respond.
>>8011080
Also, in Lyonesse the wizards are immortal and being a king is portrayed as being a lot of responsibility/work. Who wants to spend forever having to deal with a bunch of courtiers and squabbling vassals when you could be having awesome interdimensional adventures, discovering the secrets of time and space, and banging chicks?
>>8010574
>So in Foundation and Earth, is it a safe assumption to believe thatSolariansare explained in The Naked Sun. You should have started at the beginning with Caves of Steel :3
Anyone looking forward to this?
>>8010234
Handle it like Sanderson or else your brain will explode.
>>8011080
Scott Lynch has a similar thing where the mages are OP and could easily take over everything, but the logistics would be a mess and frankly they'd rather just chill out and study magic. Occasionally they do some mercenary type work, but they cost an insane amount to hire.
They also need to use their hands to actually perform magic so if you cut off them off they're pretty fucked. Not to mention that they can't do shit in they're sleep.
I feel like if you want to make magicians vulnerable you need to either sneak up on them or pull some Joker type scheme that prevents them from doing anything violent.
>Reading Elantris
>There's feminist bullshit shoehorned in everywhere
Why the fuck does he keep doing that
He's writing a fucking fantasy novel not some feminist book
>>8010234
A couple that other people haven't already mentioned.
>Friedman's Coldfire
Location based magic which is geographically restricted. Adepts are strong or weak depending on their location and tectonic plate instability, for example, generates great power but fucks up their control and they can die as a result. Water/tidal areas can disrupt magic altogether.
>Fallon's Tide Lords
Magic which waxes and wanes depending on time.
>>8011557
I still think that Lynch's powerlevels are way too fucking out of balance. There's essentially nothing restricting the magic users other than >muh propriety anda vaguely mentioned destruction of civilisation.
>>8011557
The Thorn of Emberlein is going to be super.
>>8011599
Is it just me or is Locke's love interest identical to Kvothe's love interest?
So, was the magic system done correctly in the Malazan books?
>>8011604
They're similar in that they're both free spirited women, but Locke's has actual depth.
>>8011608
Yes
>>8009479
What about Roger Zelazny's Nine Princes in Amber? (There is a battle in book 1 but the series is focused on the main character.)
>>8011589
>It's a Sarene chapter
Just glanced over it
How many fucking books is Sanderson writing at the same time
>>8005960
>drawing everyone based on the movies/TV show
Fuck you and all your kin.
>>8009479
>Loves sword and sorcery
>doesn't like Elric, Conan, Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser
What the fuck is wrong with you.
>>8010379
Apply qi to set power levels apart? Sacrifice something for more power?
How hard is it to become a fantasy writer?
I just want to make fun fantasy and remove women or make them very unimportant as they should be
I'm not literary person
>>8012092
That's easy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi
>>8012092
You only need paper and a pen.
>>8011608
Definitely
>>8011834
Nowhere near as bad as Warbreaker.
>it's an anything-but-Vasher chapter
>>8012153
He keeps doing it in every book
>WoR
>It's anyone but Kaladin
>>8012092
Writing is one of the easiest things to do.
Just write.
That's it.
If you're talking about making enough money so you don't have to do other work again, then you need luck.
>>8012158
>it's anyone but Kaladin or Dalinar
Fixed
>>8012153
What's wrong with Vasher?
I don't mind Sarene or even Shallan but holy shit was Dalinar annoying.
>>8008101
>>8008101
>implying high fantasy isn't a shit sub-genre which basically destroyed the whole fantastic concept and led to generations wasted in writing pale Tolkien rip-offs
>>8011900
He doesn't actually like sas
>>8011604
Not really. Especiallyif he is the reincarnation of that bondsmagi dude
>>8012232
>implying Dalinar isn't a dreary old bore
>>8012349
implying tolkien even a proper high fantasy
i don't recall people there throwing fireballs and lightnings like they do it in dota 2 and lol
Any books touching on themes similar to "Blame!"?
I don't mean sf specifically, just anything that has that dreary, unsettling aesthetic. Anyone who read it will know what I'm talking about.
If not, I'd be grateful for anything focused on journeying through destroyed/abandoned environments.
For reference - been reading Book of the New Sun and loving it so far. [/blog]
Anyone bother with Sharp Ends?
>>8012643
Assuming it's twice as good as The Blade Itself it would still be awful so no.
>>8012618
So what you want is dystopian novels?
Try the shadow of what was lost.
>>8012756
I guess dystopian could be used as an umbrella term, yes. Thanks.
What do you think about R scott bakker ? Can I get a non-meme answers ?
>>8013241
He's well respected here and a decent author. Try him yourself and form your own opinion.
>>8013246
I don't like gratuitous rape and violence . All I hear about the series is : intelligent, RAPE RAPE GAY RAPE INCEST GAY RAPE
>>8013316
Then stick to Sanderson.
No one like Sanderson and Bakker and Martin should be discussed in the same sentence as Tolkien, they're not even writing the same kind of fiction
>>8013324
You're right, they're significantly superior.
>>8013318
Sanderson is a pleb. I read the first book of mistborn and tried reading a few others...puke inducing.
>>8013324
sorry, but bakker > everyone else. At least when it comes from intelligent fiction . He is the smartest guy out of those mentioned, and one of the smartest SFF guys overall.
>>8010234
It's been said before, but I followed Sanderson's Laws and they were super helpful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Sanderson#Sanderson.27s_Laws
Link for convenience
>>8012158
Shallan's chapters weren't too-terrible in WoR. At least in hers, we're able to learn more about the Ghostbloods, and Shadesmar a tiny bit.
>>8012239
Nothing is wrong with Vasher. Your reading comprehension is what is wrong.
>>8010312
woah dude, what's that Jack Vance book?
that sounds coolcoolcool
Is George R. R. Martin the most brutal fantasy writer?
>>8013645
No? He doesn't even come close, the average Jap fantasy LN is much more brutal.
>>8013659
fuck off weebo
also gib names
>>8013659
I hope you're joking, because that isn't the case.
Lord of the Rings is beautifully written and I admire Tolkein for the intricate world-building, but the black and white philosophy and the endorsement of absolute hereditary monarchies is stupid.
ASOIAF, while not written as well and clearly not as cohesive of a narrative, is infinitely more philosophically mature. So Martin, while not as good a writer as Tolkein, is, I think, smarter.
>>8013645
I was just discussing this with a friend. How Martin isn't necessarily edgy but brutal. How for someone who is admired by the plebs for his brutality in killing characters can't actually write a proper death for shit. It's almost like he compensates by just killing more characters.
This conversation then branched into what we thought makes for a good death. Suffice to say Martin is not a good example of an author with well executed deaths.
>>8013687
>ASOIAF is philosophically more mature
WEW
E
W
>>8013671
If you must (I'd highly recommend you don't), try Arifureta or Re:Monster, they're both objectively terrible but have lots of torture porn and suffering.
It's a shame I can't remember one particular LN where the MC is some half-arsed dread necromancer and literally brutally tortures his classmate and then revives her as his undead minion.
>>8013687
>So Martin, while not as good a writer as Tolkein, is, I think, smarter.
>>8013402
I agree, I thought Shallan was much more bearable in WoR and a bit at the end of tWoK. Sanderson does have a pretty shit track record with female characters. It's one thing to have a feminist agenda but he kind of...doesn't understand feminism and the way he goes about it is ham fisted. Not subtle enough I guess. Was going to read Warbreaker. That should really solidify my opinion on his female writing.
>>8013687
You're right, but prepare for the dead author protection army.
>>8013756
How is it not? Every last character is either good, evil, or good corrupted by evil. Whether a character is good or bad is solely decided by what species they are. Elves and hobbits? All good. Orcs? All bad. It's just about as morally simplistic as it gets. ASOIAF almost exclusively has morally gray characters who have to face actual moral challenges - unlike in LotR.
>>8013769
>Implying intelligence and being able to craft good stories are the same things
>>8013687
>black and white philosophy
>absolute hereditary monarchies is stupid
>>8013795
You can defend absolute monarchies if you want, but absolute HEREDITARY monarchies? That's inexcusably stupid.
Black and white moral systems are also inexcusably stupid. You're stupid.
>>8013804
>If I subtract the historical, cultural, socio-political and religious context it becomes inexcusably stupid!
>>8013804
>projection
I see in left wing retard land you havent been introduced to common sense bet
What are some books similar to the hobbit? I didn't enjoy the trilogy as much because it seemed more convoluted
>>8013804
tfw when you confuse edge for complexity
>>8013643
The Dying Earth.
>>8013804
While black and white moral systems might be stupid in real life, there is a reason for such a system in a fantasy setting. If you can't appreciate a story praising heroism, perseverance, courage and loyalty because its not 'gray' enough, I'd say you're too far gone mate.
>>8013836
>trilogy
At least understand what you're reading is.
Just bought the last 3 books in this series, the GAP cycle. This series is dark.
Who /donaldson hereFUCK THE HATERS I LIKED THOMAS COVENANT even though the Last Chronicles weren't as good as the first 2
>>8013934
By trilogy I mean the fellowship of the ring, the two towers, and the return of the king.
Now are you going to give me any suggestions or are you just going to nit pick what I say
>>8005960
Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.
>"like a fat man straining to shit"
>fantasy
I am RADICALLY doubting the existence of fantasy within the category of good literature, when "good" is defined by the parameters 2x-godlijkeness-atriboote to 6y- plebshitte in cartesian space. I am examining my beliefs one by one, as the bad apple spoils thee bunch, and all I find here is sophistry and illusion, ignora-muses, and so I commit it to thee flames.
>>8014077
But. Sockrates, what if thee appearancés of true wisdom and illusion where 'tself a grave illusion per'pretrated by an evil daemon, hell intented on being th'Cause o'havok n'dismay among thee people's of thee fine Earth?
What then of Phantasy? Is it thee oedipal correlative auf die wish-to-transcend-the-Name-of-the-Father, but Sockrates, all I find here is another signifier!
I ask thee /l;it/izens, wheat hence thee man to do to thee crow? Sophoistree & Illusion, and so I commit thee transcendental signifiers to thee void of non-sense, And thus we are back to sense - are it not Socrattes?? So what doth Justice, then?
Summerfag please go your memes are terribly unfunny
>>8013776
95% of his main female characters are written the exact same. I hope he can fix that at some point ever.
Warbreaker is still worth reading for the behind-the-scenes details and lore but everybody is a fucking boring character compared to Vasher. I think Vivenna became okay a little into the book once she was around Vasher long enough but the book also has incredibly poor pacing so a lot of the boredom originates from there, as well.
>>8013687
>Overweight, poor health and hitting retirement age in a couple of months
>Spends countless hours trying to appease regressives and justifying his disappointing shenanigans on his blog
This is not the behaviour of a smart man.
Just finished Elantris
What now? already read WoR, Warbringer and mistborn
>>8014414
Why though, only Stormlight is good by him. Try reading better authors
>>8014425
>Try reading better authors
No.
>>8014346
>meanwhile, gurm makes shitloads of money
theres that, though.
>>8006315
>fought in a war
He was in The Somme, one of the bloodiest, most disgusting, most terrifying battles of all time.
>>8013780
>walder frey is so complex and had such good motivations for killing pregnant women
Martin is an edgy hack who writes whatever he thinks will have the most shock value.
>>8014485
Tolkien also spoke Latin, French, German, Finnish, Greek, Italian, Spanish and Welsh.
Not good enough? He also spoke Danish, Dutch, Icelandic, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Swedish and just about every medieval and old variant thereof.
>>8014517
I know it's not how it actually happened, but... Hitler received the German version of the purple heart for being wounded in action at the Somme, so I like to believe it was Tolkien and/or Lewis who did it
>tfw you have a really fun and complicated world pre-built in your head with tons of interesting characters, pre-built mythologies and complex symbolism but you can't turn it into a story
>meanwhile stories you write off the top of your head are light-centuries better in every way
>>8014003
I also liked the first TC. The second was OK, I have no intention of picking up the last books based on the general consensus that they suck.
I get why people don't like the Thomas Covenant books, but I don't understand why people who have no problem powering through thousands of pages of the Western equivalent of light novels can't make it halfway through the first book. Whatever.
>>8014601
Tolkien was a signals officer so probably not. Lewis however was an infantryman, which makes this story plausible. Thanks by the way.
>>8014619
>tfw you have a really fun and complicated world pre-built in your head with tons of interesting characters, pre-built mythologies and complex symbolism but you can't turn it into a story
Check out /tg/ and google campaign settings.
>>8014619
>>tfw you have a really fun and complicated world pre-built in your head with tons of interesting characters, pre-built mythologies and complex symbolism but you can't turn it into a story
Become Sanderson.
Become anime.
>>8013762
>It's a shame I can't remember one particular LN where the MC is some half-arsed dread necromancer and literally brutally tortures his classmate and then revives her as his undead minion.
"Forsaken Hero", a web novel, even the author admitted he went to far on volume 4 and started rewriting the damn thing.
>>8014619
Sounds like you should be focusing on the story first and creating the characters/setting around that. Otherwise you end up trying to work all your worldbuilding into something that has no need for it.
Need an audiobook recommendation,
No anime shit pls
>>8015105
Devil wears prada
(in german)
I don't want to make a thread that would probably get lost, and I'm sure you people should know.
What are some good FICTION books about board games? Involving board games. Maybe tournaments and all that. Fantasy, Sci-Fi or not.
>>8015221
If it had a decent translation I would recommend No Game No Life
What do people think of Feast of Souls and the rest of the books?
>>8013645
Not even close.
Even Maze Runner has dead main characters much more than the ASOIAF series.
>>8015754
Maze Runner sucked imo
Its main character was such a fucking spaz and so frustrating to follow.
>wake up in a messed, post-apocalyptic world?
>yeah, okay, I can deal with that
>organic robot things that want to kill you?
>man, that's messed up, but I can handle it
>girl can communicate with you in your head?
>HOLY FUCKING SHIT, NO WAY, MAN. I'M GONNA RUN OUT INTO THE MAZE FULL OF KILLER ORGANIC ROBOTS BECAUSE I CANNOT HANDLE THAT
fuck that book
>>8015781
Didn't say it was very good, but the whole main cast ended up dead except one character introduced 2/3rds in.
Also I'm not very bothered with teenage characters acting like spazzes.
GRRM his "brutality" is just a meme made by people who have never ventured into anything
Meme is not the right word in this context but it probably gets the point across.
>>8015791
Wait, so,the main character from the first book died?I wouldn't have expected that, given how strong his protagonist-kun aura was
>>8015736
>female author
I warned you.
It's always going to be shit and leave you with a foul taste.
When will you people learn?
>>8015820
you are mad online
>>8015736
Coldfire is about 100x better.
>>8011608
I got a boner everytime the Deck appeared in GotM
Deadhouse was a bit too dense for me but I plan on restarting the series eventually, does the Deck play a role in later books?
>>8014619
>tfw cool world,magic systemand overarching plot elements in my head but can't wrap my head around the details/characterization and suck at writing anyway
How do I cope with this feel /sff/?
>>8015948
implying that when you fly faster than sound you can't speak
that fishman is wrong
>>8015939
Not really.
>>8016094
Is that bait or did you not finish it?
>>8015885
How so?
>>8015736
I really thought this book was way too edgy. The female lead is just so hateful and apathetic. I mean, I get why she is, but her character really only revolved around her edge and her past that made her edgy. We hardly saw anything else out of her.
That said, the magic in it was pretty cool and interesting and some of the other characters were neat. World-building was a bit underwhelming, though. Seemed kinda fuzzy, I guess, but that was just my interpretation. I'm usually a sucker for cool worlds, but this one was just underwhelming for some reason.
That's my two cents on it
>>8016171
The CF trilogy has beautifully ambiguous turn of phrase and original ideas with just a hint of scifi. The characters tend to make logical decisions and have logical flaws in their magical system.
The Magister trilogy features a group of extremely overpowered characterswho keep fucking multiplying even though their very existence is killing all the humans in the book and will eventually lead to all the humans dying and them killing themselves when they run out of a power source and the explanation for the reason why they don't just turn around and rule the entire fucking cosmos is just stupid.And somehow this is fucking ok and nobody ever comes up with a logical conclusion to avoid accidentallygenociding the human raceand it's also ok just towaste the lives of humans on party tricks and this doesn't even change by the end of the book.
>The female lead is just so hateful and apathetic
She came across as just sociopathic to me. Which isn't a problem but I didn't like the book as much as the Coldfire one in terms of worldbuilding.
Also whoever OCR'd the epubs didn't spellcheck it at all or align the lines correctly. I really wanted to wrangle whoever did that by the neck by the end of the series.
>>8016199
I really liked the prose in Black Sun Rising.
>Write myself into a corner
>Keep writing
>Main character dies
>End the book there
>Don't call it fantasy, call it tragedy
>>8009803
Just started WoT and it seems Harry Potter-Tier but less fun. I'm hoping it gets better though, I never stop reading a book halfway.
>>8016287
the first book is probably the worst of the first 5 or 6, especially the beginning which he deliberately wrote to be similar to most typical fantasy
>>8016253
Magister's Trilogy has some of that prose but you can tell that it's been watered down when compared to CF, like Endymion compared to Hyperion.
150 pages into Locke Lamora and I'm probably gonna drop it, any reasons why I shouldn't? I thought of doing so 100 pages ago but kept reading because of all the acclaim it gets, but I still don't get it.
>>8016406
Nah if you don't like it by now, drop it. It doesn't get significantly better from then on.
>>8016287
RIP scifi signal
I'm new to reading, what does /lit/ mean when they say x author has shit prose?
What do you mean prose?
Like if there is poetry or verses in the book?
I don't remember any poetry verses in the books I've read that /lit/ has said has bad prose
>>8016526
text or writing
poetry is the opposite of prose
>>8016529
how do you determine what is good prose and what not?
>>8016287
WoT has some interesting concepts but as a whole it is shit. Shit prose, mostly shit characters, and villains that are laughably one-dimensional and cartoonish.
>>8016535
Google it.
>>8016535
Does it exist merely to carry the plot? then It's bad prose.
>>8016542
What other uses would it have?
>>8016545
To entertain?
>>8016548
Do I understand?
>>8016526
>What do you mean prose?
The quality of the writing on a sentence-by-sentence basis. SF and fantasy authors have a reputation for writing clunky sentences.
>>8016565
As I said I am new to reading so I don't understand what you mean by clunky sentences,
he did this, he said this, this happened, etc.
What could go clunky?
>>8016554
No?
>>8016581
Thank you
>>8016575
You seem also new to having a brain because you could figure all this out in seconds by yourself.
>>8016586
The psychologist told me I have 76 IQ a few years ago if that is any excuse
>>8016575
Picture of Dorian Gray is good prose.
>>8016575
So there is no difference in quality between one of your 4chan comments and the great masters of literature - Dante, Shakespeare, Cervantes, Tolstoy, Flaubert, Joyce, Proust, etc.? Is that your thesis?
>>8016590
I'm not saying anything I am asking questions because I don't understand
>>8016587
Shouldn't you be posting on a board like /b/, with your fellow mouthbreathers?
>>8016605
I breathe through my nose, I don't like /b/ all they have is useless threads, nothing that interests me.
I just started reading fantasy and I loved it and so is why I'm here in this general.
>>8016617
>I breathe through my nose
damn i had an acute obstructive bronchitis recently together with catarrhal sinusitis and had to breath with my mouth for a few days when even mouthbreathers breath with their nose -_-
>>8016658
I'm sorry to hear that I hope you are ok now
