DANKEST MEME Edition
What's your favorite book that is a cheap knock off of another series?
Previously: >>7992428 → #
>Fantasy
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/3v2oXAY.jpg (embed)
General: http://i.imgur.com/igBYngL.jpg (embed)
Flowchart: http://i.imgur.com/uykqKJn.jpg (embed)
>Sci-Fi
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/A96mTQX.jpg (embed)
General: http://i.imgur.com/r55ODlL.jpg/ http://i.imgur.com/gNTrDmc.jpg (embed)
Honorary bad anime fedora edition
>>7995472 #
Recommend Riyria its good
Old Man's War is a good knock off of Starship Troopers
Also reminder authors with Terry in their name are shit, do not read.
>>7996125
Hellequin chronicles is my favorite Dresden knockoff
best jesters in sff? PLEASE RESPOND
>>7996256
The Mule.
What is the best portrayal of pirates in sff? Who are the best pirate characters?
So when is somebody gonna make the essential little-girl /sffg/ chart?
>>7996343
Some anon will need to research it. We just don't have enough material.
Ok boys, which fantasy book has the saddest ending?
>>7996343
>wonderloli and toph will never force you to
>>7996409
LOTR
>>7996409
The New Testament
>>7996409
so far for me it was Deadhouse Gates.
>>7996481
Shit, I'm reading it right now!
>>7996409
Childhood's End probably
can someone upload the FOR WOMYN BY WOMYN chart for me? there were other tiers as well but I don't remember what they were.
The Slynx by Tatyana Tolstaya was really great. Anyone else read it? What did you think?
>>7996525
Why? If there are no women on the internet then how will the women ever read the posted chart?
>>7996601
i am the one who will read the chart and *unsheaths helmet* I AM NO WOMAN.
>>7996409
The witcher the last wish
>>7996463
Tips katana
>>7996610
>tfw no qt /sff/ gf to use ur face as a comfy chair during reading sessions
>>7996409
Wheel of Time. It's incredibly sad how a series can start off so strongly for the first quarter of the series and then go to utter shit so quickly and never recover. Then the author dies and the replacement author does an even worse job and shits the bed even more.
>>7996525
Figure this is probably the safest place to ask, but are there any good alternate history novels? I love history and have reads ton of historical fiction, some of which takes a lot of liberties and is basically what I guess would be called historical fantasy, like Giles Kristian's Raven novels which are basically Viking fantasy. Never read any alternate history before and I'm curious what's good. The Temeraire series sounded intersting, but anything with a heavy focus on talking dragons makes me instantly wary of it's quality.
Reminder that ISLAND is out and that it's a masterpiece of sci-fi.
For now in Japanese only (why don't you know it), but there are indications it might get translated later in the future.
>>7996979
Here you can view ISLAND's heroines. The work is all-ages, so you won't be able to enjoy sex scenes with them, nonetheless the work contains some fanservice complementing its serious story.
Also note that the author's previous work, Himawari -Pebble in the Sky-, has an English release confirmed.
>>7996979
It looks like it would be good.
It looks like protagonist is in the buff.
>>7996979
>weeb attempts to into literary analysis
>>7996979
Wonder what will happen when a weeb reads an actual book
>>7997035
That poor land mammal would die from a heart attack. Or he'll make awkward deviant artwork.
>>7997024
>>7997035
>>7997043
Scroll down and you can see him talk about various books.
http://ask.fm/kastelpls/best
You're just way too stuck in your pointless weeb - nonweeb divide. I'd say something like "I guess it makes you feel better about yourself or something", but that would be pointless porsonal attack.
>>7997043
OH GOD NO. I had forgotten about the anime versions of everything...
>>7997048
>You're just way too stuck in your pointless weeb - nonweeb divide.
The issue isn't that people like weebshit, it's that they can't separate their personal feelings from the reality of the works that they define themselves by and act like anime is the highest form of art.
It's not anime that's shit it's the fanbase.
Things here are same as usual. Dudley's diet isn't going too well. My aunt found him smuggling doughnuts into his room yesterday. They told him they'd have to cut his pocket money if he keeps doing it, so he got really angry ad chucked his Playstation out of the window.
I think it was August of 1994 when Harry wrote this letter to Sirius but Playstation was introduced to the world in December of 1994.
I really had a problem with this.
>>7997108
>>7997061
You are presuming way too much and are appliying sweeping generalizations to individuals. You are right that some people are genuine weeaboos in the way you describe and that they are cringeworthy, but that not revelant in this specific case.
When you check the guy's posts of Ask.fm for example >>7997048, you see he applies high standards to everything.
>>7996916
thanks, boss. none of them are at my local library, so i have to go to THAT book store. you know the one.
I can already smell the mothballs.
>>7997117
Thanks for the laugh man.
I've finished reading Ringworld recently. Are the sequels any good? If not, what does /lit/ reccomends as my next Larry Niven book?
>>7996481
>Deadhouse Gates
I thought the ending was just hyping things up for the future.ALL those crows gotta mean the kid is going to be like, super powerful, right?
>>7996979
So is this < or > the infinity series?
>>7997182
They're okay I guess. If you don't mind the bizarre sodomy (or whatever) fixation.
Is this any good?
>>7997214
I enjoyed it.
it's not Ulysses though so everyone will tell you it's shit
>>7997215
Great. I thought something was wrong with me since it got great reviews nearly everywhere and I felt asleep four times trying to read it.
>>7997224
*fell
Is there a book you constantly think about even if its been awhile since you read it?
pic related and BotNS really resonated with me, it's like Wolfe taps into this part of your imagination and makes you think in a way you didn't know you could
That sounds so pretentious and also even corny I know, but I don't know how to explain it.
>>7996916
>>7996610
>>7996525
i find this chart to be very questionable but i have to work in the morning so i can't make one right now
here are some recs:
Hild - Nicola Griffith, historical
The Night Circus - Erin Morgenstern, fantasy
Ceremony - Leslie Marmon Silko, magical realism
Dragonflight - Anne McCaffrey
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell - Susanna Clarke, Napoleonic era fantasy
Thomas the Rhymer - Ellen Kushner, fantasy
Waking the Moon - Elizabeth Hand, modern fantasy
The Eight - Katherine Neville, modern and historical magic-ish thriller
Over Sea, Under Stone - Susan Cooper, YA fantasy, first of five (although the best book is The Grey King, book 4, which won the Newberry)
Wrinkle in Time - Madeleine L'Engle, YA fantasy
Howl's Moving Castle - Dianna Wynne Jones, YA, the movie was based on it
Wizard of Earthsea - Ursula K Le Guin, YA fantasy
The Female Man - Joanna Russ, sf
Synners - Pat Cadigan, late cyberpunk
Beggars in Spain - Nancy Kress, sf
China Mountain Zhang - Maureen F McHugh, sf slice of life
Doomsday Book - Connie Willis, time travel to the Middle Ages
i'm sure i'm forgetting some and i'm remiss in reading a bunch of notable female authors in the field
>>7997283
>i find this chart to be very questionable
That's because it's more a categorization than a recommendation.
I just finished Jordan's Wheel of Time after blitzing through the last three books in as many days. Where do I go from here? Any recs?
opinions?
>>7997344
I prefer Sanderson.
>>7997283
someone needs to revise the chart with these recommendations. im pretty sure the chart was made solely to make female authors look like shit
>>7997348
![Race-TitanCover[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HdE0YQm.jpg "Race-TitanCover[1].jpg")
>>7997283
Tiptree and Butler lad. Also Justina Robson and Steph Swainston. Pic related is really good and as a /sffg/ bonus containsgay, rape, and incest, although not that much
>>7997234
Book of the New Sun all the time my nikka.
Also Brothers Karamazov, Hilaire Belloc stuff, Hayek, Aquinas, Endo... I guess it changes up as time goes on, but New Sun has been a bit of an obsession for almost 4 years now.
>Bibliotik freeload torrents are out
>One of the top uploaders picked Name of the Wind, Wise Man's Fear and Mistborn
>>7997394
Good choices imo
>>7996514
CE's ending is just bittersweet. Yeah it's about the end of human civilization, but the whole premise of the book is that civilization is just a precursor for a greater purpose. Hence the name of the book. It's only really sad for the one guy who gets left out.
>>7997413
But the something greater feels shitty and nothing of value is gained while everything is lost
>>7997427
How is joining with an omnipotent universal intelligence for all eternity nothing of value?
reminder that r scott bakker is the most inteligent fantasy wtiter of this generation
>>7996803
I'm at the beginning of book 2 and already bored out of my fucking mind. Why is everything so cliché? Why is Rand such a little bitch?
Any fantasy with a little girl protagonist?
>>7997451
It seems like his intelligence is all STEM.
>>7997455
The Slow Regard of Silent Things
>That feel when Windows of Winter is releasing THIS MONTH
>>7997491
What is that? A Christmas theme for an operating system?
>>7997454
I'm sure you'd handle finding out you're going to go insane and then die in a fistfight with satan
>>7997472
His training was in Philosophy.
But yes, you read him for the ideas not the prose quality.
>>7997499
A song of ice and fire novel by george rr martin
>>7997505
>the winds of never
>this month
Top kek m8
>>7997514
Yeah it's coming out this month.
Trust me on this one
>>7997501
No but I think I'd at least be able to say fuck destiny, nothing is preordained, instead he just seems to take it lying down.
>>7997518
Proof or I call bullshit.
Recommend me the best female author and tell me why she's better than Sanderson
Protip:She's not
>>7997526
Ayn Rand
That diary of that jewish whore from WW2 or something
>>7997526
A burlap sack full of donkey dicks writes better than Sanderson.
>>7997529
I've read Anne Frank, it's quite shit.
It's just a diary written by an average girl, there's nothing good about the writing, the prose etc. etc.
A wikipedia page is a better read.
>Ayn Rand
I bet you're voting for Gary Johnson this election.
Her writing is so longwinded, you could cut 2/3rd of all her books and you miss nothing.
>>7997531
So?
I never said he was good, merely better.
>>7997520
he was told legends of the dragon destroying the world and killing everyone he ever knew since he was a kid, and he just found out that he's LTT's reincarnation.
And it's a verifiable fact in the WOT universe that everything is preordained. But he does go off the reservation in the later books.
>>7997535
She was a blind deaf mute how could you not like what she wrote wtf
>>7997526
Hope Mirrlees was a better writer than Sanderson.
>Speaking for myself, the science fiction I admire most could be categorised as a mixture of literary postmodernism, subjective hyperrealism, advanced and/or experimental structure bound together with speculative elements. I am the kind of reader and writer who believes that the old kind of space fiction – intergalactic empires and people setting off in rockets to conquer the stars with no more than a tangential connection to lived or indeed scientific reality – is usually not worth bothering with in critical terms, that the core SF tropes are only interesting as literature if they are subverted to such an extent as to make something entirely different. I happen to believe that when placed next to the linguistic and metaphysical glory that is M. John Harrison’s Kefahuchi Tract trilogy, something like Ann Leckie’s Imperial Radch trilogy, though competently executed and entertaining on its own terms is revealed starkly for what it is: linguistically unspectacular, thematically redundant and completely lacking in literary irony.
>When Edward James says in his paper that he considers Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand to be one of the greatest works of science fiction so far written, I would agree with him heartily. When he insists that Delany’s work would be ‘largely impenetrable to outsiders’ – outsiders who have not been ‘initiated’ into the shorthand, language and conceptual frameworks of science fiction, I would beg to differ. For me, Delany is not just a great science fiction writer, he is a great writer full stop, and SIMPLGOS would be no more difficult for the general reader than any other work of modernist or postmodernist literature. It is – like Woolf or Beckett or Foster Wallace – simply a text that requires a modicum of concentration. Truly great science fiction – that is, science fiction that pays attention to itself in terms of literary values – needs no special pleading. Indeed I would go a lot further than this. I would suggest that if a work of science fiction cannot stand next to works drawn from the mainstream and hold its own in terms of literary values, we need to be asking ourselves if it is truly great.
What did she mean by this?
>>7997547
Nobody cares about these old shit writers.
She isn't better, she's just archaic
>>7997551
>Nobody cares about these old shit writers
HERE WE GO AGAIN
>>7997551
40 years isn't archaic you mongoloid
>>7997564
Lud-inthemist is 90 years old.
It is archaic.
>>7997549
She means, basically, that she's better than you.
You gonna let dat bitch get away with this, anon?
![s-t-joshi[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/q41rWgJ.jpg "s-t-joshi[1].jpg")
Can we discuss the most autistic man in horror studies here
>>7997539
>go off the reservation
What does this mean? Not a native speaker.
>>7997569
You are too stupid to breathe.
>>7997583
And yet I do and you are wrong.
>>7997575
american colloquialism from the colonial days. Basically it means to go do something stupid, or crazy.
>>7997574
id sit on his face
Hey guys, I just finished Forever War, apparently the 2nd and 3rd book are horrible, but those were reviews by plebs, what would you guys say?
>inb4 it's not a sequel, I know that.
>>7997574
I expected him to be white.
>>7997503
>mfw I read just because I want to know what happens
>>7997618
I wouldn't say Forever Free is awful in and of itself, it's honestly just the issue of it being a sequel. Forever War was a story with very loud and obvious themes, and it ended in a way that closed off all available story and character arcs. Free doesn't pick up on the original story's theme in any direct way and it can't pretend to be legitimately continuing the story, so it just feels tacked on. There's no point in it being a sequel, and being associated with such a dramatically different story only does it harm. The fact that this unsatisfying sequel also disrupts what was a perfectly fine happy ending also doesn't lend it a lot of goodwill.
I like Forever Peace, though. It gets kind of hokey in the third act, but I didn't mind because I thought it worked as a counterbalance to the endless nihilism of War. Not as good as a story overall but still worth reading.
Can /lit/ help me out?
I'm looking for fantasy about a party of heroes like elves, warriors and wizards set in a historical setting with magic.
It can be campy but it should be serious.
>>7997682
Lord of The Rings
>>7997682
There's this underrated gem called The Lord of the Rings that I think you would really like.
>>7997686
>>7997687
Haven't read that yet, started with The Children of Hurin, is it any good?
>>7997689
No it's shit and it's overrated drivel.
>>7997691
Children of Hurin or LOTR?
Should I skip to LOTR then?
>>7997689
It's too new to be considered good, i would suggest waiting a few decades before reading LotR.
>>7997693
don't even bother with lord of the rings, your time is better spent elsewhere
>>7997689
Oh yes, it's very good. I'd say it's his best.
If you like ancient drama and myth, this the thing for you. It has intentionally archaic language that is very minimalistic, uses few words for big emotions. It's tragic and has excellent characters, and a constant theme of looming doom.
I've read Lotr a long time ago and I can't compare the two, but Children of Hurin on their own are just excellent.
>>7997721
What about Conan?
I like campy Swords and Sorcery stuff and D&D.
>>7997693
Hurin for sure, I found it tragic, dark, and engaging. I was 17 though.
>>7997737
Conan is the father of DnD
>>7997775
Sweet, I'll read that first, anything else along those lines I need to check?
>>7997780
Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and Elric of Melbourne. Those are the best sword and sorcery series out there. Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser is better than the other two.
>>7997788
>fafhrd
Shallow bullshit
Just edgier YA
>Elric
emo bullshti
>>7997809
>Accel World
Do people seriously like that shit show?
>>7997184
>I thought the ending was just hyping things up for the future.
The nature of rebirth/posession in Malazan has not been made clear. Inheritors seem to retain power and maybe even consciousness. But that consciousness seems to be either secondary to the hosts or merged in an odd way (more weaknesses compounding weaknesses than an increase in character balance). Or maybe it will be entirely different from how Quick Ben and Tattersail turned out.
Not that I finished the series. At book 8 or 9 the focus was on some new and uninteresting characters (for the first time) so I quit reading.
>>7997809
>next time he shows up is as an alcoholic wasting away in some shithole bar
>>7997812
The books.
The entire series focuses upon the protagonists low self esteem and his desire to be recognised.
In the anime the protagonist's personality is diluted to allow for the possibility of self insertion. Also events are spun to make him seem more successful in his pursuit, and the remaining cast less critical of his shortcomings (with the exception of the love interest).
>>7997839
Yes I believe I got that far. Interesting how far he took it. I thought he wasn't even in Coltaine's army, but was stationed where he died. Is there anything further to the attachment?
Is Apsalar an ascendant?
Is The First Law a homage to the greeks?
>>7997802
Kill yourself
>>7997889
thats more Dune and Second Apocalypse
>>7997867Squint was an archer at Aren in the army, working for the people who killed coltaine. All there is for Squint is the soul crushing depression of having to kill a hero in cold blood after the people you work for betray him.
>>7996125
I can stand the wrong armour, but I just hate it when artists depict battleaxe in this cartoony way. With armour you at least had plenty of weird sollutions that were used, so most the artists came up with has a small chance of being acceptable, but battleaxes were never massive unpractical two headed monstrosities. Be it poleaxe, glaive, bardiche, vikings axe, or weirdass german schlachshklossax that coexisted with halberds. They always had one head only! Even with it wielder had trouble swinging it and had a good chance of hitting one of his own. Two head simply never were practical and never existed.
What's the highest rated fantasy with a little girl protagonist?
Is this any good?
>>7998014
Mostly doorstoppers and shit
>>7998014
Sophistry of the highest type.
>>7997991
It's good in the way that old PC games are good.
They were amazing at the time, but you need to be autistic to enjoy them now, because they're badly made and what was innovative about them at the time has been included in everything else.
>>7997122
>he applies high standards to everything.
>> Why do you like Sonic so much?
>>You see, Sonic is one of the important characters in the universe. Without Sonic, we wouldn't have known for example that hotdogs are delicious and that speed is a better answer than violence.
ahahahahahaha
![51ajxUIQTeL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Hu0CI5I.jpg "51ajxUIQTeL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_[1].jpg")
>>7997991
Make sure you get the radical new edition senpai
>>7997874All bridge burners may be ascendants. Also she has power on par with cotillion.
>>7997874
Pretty much she is yeah.
>>7997950
I got that much, I just wanted to know if it was personal. You'd expect a more outwards reaction from those circumstances.
>>7997374
Hi aram
>>7997234
Hi Aram's Groupie
When are you guys gonna put on trips so I could filter you? I kinda like fifth head and new sun but you guys are posting this shit too much; it's a personal pet peeve of mine when repetition is overused.
>>7998158
No, it's the slimey croat mate, you can see all of those on my gr
>>7997394
>not using mouse
>>7997214
First book is okish. The whole trilogy turns into shit later on. Way to many things happen just because author wanted it to.
>>7998070
That cover alone makes it truly superior.
>>7997896
>Y-you are shitting on my favourite childhood book, stop
>I'm 52 btw and I like to force my childhood fantasy books(which would now be considered pulpy shit) on people so I'm not left out of discussions, because I'm too set in my old ways to read new things.
>I also believe the world revolves around me so lit must bend to my will
>>7997737
SWEDEN
W
E
D
E
N
>>7998197
>I haven't heard very many good things
From where? Honestly the first I've heard of Era 2 being boring. The characters are older and easily more 'mature', characterization does improve quite a bit, and there is a lot going on.
>>7998060
If you want an introduction to moorcock just use a buttplug and plenty lube for prep, then go to your local gay bar. You fudge packing fag.
>>7998171
I use both.
>>7996642
Both of them return alive, though. Justplay the video games
>>7997657
Thanks for the reply senpai, would you say that skipping Forever War and going straight for Forever Peace is the best action then?
>>7998292
>skipping Forever War
absolute madman
>>7998246
>Both of them return alive
Eh...not in my playthrough.
>>7998523
Geralt returns in the first and Yen in the third game, that's what I meant.
Anyway, I only played the first two.
I wish Sapkowski would write more short stories.
>>7997283
>>7996525
There is another chart.
What are your favorite WoT novels?
>>7998683
The first one I guess, the only one I actually finished.
I'm halfway through the second one. Boy I sure wish those fucking Red Ajahs would up and die already, they're obviously evil as fuck and probably "Darkfriends" (top lel you can't make this shit up) as well.
Are the Riyria books good?
>>7997061
You can't really say this when you've read none of the VNs that get that kind of praise. There's a handful (known as 'kamige') that easily blow out the majority of books.
What was the last book that blew your mind in how good it was /sffg/?
>>7998964
Star Maker. Read it 5 years ago and nothing has topped it since.
Man the description of the Coldfire series seems really cool but everyone seems to say the writing is weak and it's dated as heck.
Any other good 'weird dark fantasy'? I'd like to see some questions of ethics explored and a story that doesn't revolve around the usual politics in a kingdom and such. I'll check out anything that sounds remotely unique and interesting.
>>7996159
>Brooks
Bland af
>Goodkind
Oh god no
>Pratchett
At least has a sense of humor
Brainstorming a novel where most of the world has devolved into basically cavemen via virus, acting mainly on instinct. Said virus was deliberately created by the spirit of Nature, who sees human cognitive thought as a threat, not to its wellbeing but to its dominance over the Earth. The protagonist gets involved with a group that is fighting Nature.
My question is, which makes for a more compelling protagonist in this scenario? One who abhors the brainlessness Nature is trying to force humans back to, and loves the complex? Or one who yearns for the simple life, discomforted and confused by his/her higher functions? This will also decide whether the protagonist joins the anti-Nature team willingly or through force.
>>7999072
>My question is, which makes for a more compelling protagonist in this scenario?
Why not write both characters and give each their own viewpoint chapters?
>>7999111
Yes, and then they fuck which was Nature's plan all along.
>>7999111
I do plan on that but not in the same capacity, one will be the main and the other will be one of several minor viewpoints. Though it's early, that could change, but having the two on equal footing just seems a little on the nose to me, even for the already unsubtle setting.
>tfw reading The Great Hunt wrapped in a blanket, with a mug of hot barley by my side
I have achieved maximum comfy.
>>7999128
do you even write modern fiction? you need ten thousand POVs unfolding over the course of fifteen books. I wouldn't touch a book with 1 POV even if it had breasts and a vagoo.
>>7999160
>do you even write modern fiction? you need ten thousand POVs unfolding over the course of fifteen books.
As far as I know only asoiaf and WoT do that.
>>7999072
neither, and the premise is shit
>>7999164
the premise literally doesn't matter
It's what he does with it that is everything
>>7999163
Discworld too.
>>7999155
>tfw smoking poppers drinking coffee and reading V
>>7999172
I like the Pinecone. Gravity's Rainbow had lots of sci fi elements.
Foundation?
Or Dune?
>>7999183
Haven't read Foundation, but I would recommend Dune to anyone. The sequels are a mixed bag but I read those too. It only gets noticeably worse after book 4, 5 and 6 are readable but nothing amazing.
>>7999183
If you're talking about the image, it's Starship Troopers
If you're asking about personal preference, I'd go with Foundation trilogy. Dune's good, but when reading Asimov I got a lot more of those moments where you're aware you're reading some good shit
>>7999183
warhammer 40k
>>7999183
both are good, but both suffer from getting weird at points. The second foundation stuff in Foundation was dull and the weird space muslim parts of Dune had me skipping paragraphs
I don't think I can choose a best of the two though, they're both hallmarks of the genre
>>7999183
Dune for setting and characters, Foundation for story.
>>7999203
this
foundation had too many names and repetitive characters
>>7999202
>the weird space muslim parts
So basically two thirds of the first book?
>>7999221
Only when it got really intense. I much preferred the parts about the houses or the governments, especially the very beginning and end.
I collected Imperial Guard, not Eldar
>>7999229
Yeah I always felt like Dune is Warhammer 40k but without the massive, MASSIVE amount of edge.
>>7999183
Dune by a wide margin.
I don't even know how people compare these two, Foundation always felt like YA for me, and the timeskips where terrible.
>>7999248
were*
>>7999248
YA?
But nah disagree with you about the timeskips, thought they were kind of cool. But I'm a history nerd so
>>7998540
2nded.
The long books are absolute trash, but the short stories are incredible.
>>7998989
>no responses
A-Alright
>>7997535
>Gary Johnson
You mean the least libertarian candidate in the entire libertarian party
>>7999266
I've never read any weird dark fantasy. I think sci-fi covers more ethical and moral themes than fantasy personally, but then my fantasy literature is somewhat limited to be honest
>>7997780
Stories to start with:
Tower of the Elephant
Then:
Beyond the Black River
Red Nails
And also whatever that story is called where he's a pirate and eats a shit to of black lotus and gets high as fuck and kills a bunch of money people to save this black lady pirate.
>>7999274
Yes.
People will still meme him and say
>no roads
>Anarchy
etc. etc.
I know he isn't a hardcore ideological libertarian.
But he's the most known of the 3
>>7997991
Yes.
Elric is very hit and miss and is alternately long and emo and boring and then bizzare and bloody and incredibly weird.
>>7997993
Alice on wonderland
Wizard of Oz
Lion witch wardrobe
Just finished The Fell Sword, sequel to The Red Knight.
It's a lot better than the first book.
Unfortunately there are a lot of boring characters and about half the book is trash.
The parts following the red knight have well plotted politics, characters, and battles.
>>7999321
>Unfortunately there are a lot of boring characters
The third book scales down on the characters and is considered the best so far. Have fun
>>7999229
I had Space Wolfe's and sold them. Now I have a squad of Deathwing Terminators, Land Rider and a Forge World Dark Angels Drednought knock off.
Will finish painting them all and order some more Chinese stuff.
Bois I'm about to do it Bakker shills did it maybe I discover a good modern fantasy writer
>>7999391
"Despite a promising beginning, this series botched the characters, plot, and story structure so badly that it isn't worth reading. Whether you're looking for good writing and deeper meaning or just an entertaining fantasy story, you'll find neither here.
Let's start with story structure: despite ostensibly being a series, none of the three books here stand by themselves, instead each abruptly ends and then immediately starts up again in the next volume. Thus, The Prince of Nothing is a single book divided into three parts. Even taking this view, however, The Prince of Nothing is still an unsatisfying story because there is no resolution to speak of. Bakker proves incapable of writing a beginning, middle, and end even when given over 1,800 pages to do so. Instead, this whole series feels like one big prologue to whatever book set in this world he writes next.
Considering the pure tonnage of writing here you would expect the world to be fleshed out, since that's the only thing this massive tome actually seems to try to accomplish. Instead the world is strangely muddled, as Bakker chooses to hide elements of the world from the reader for no sufficiently good reason. There is, for instance, a chronicle of an event known as the First Apocalypse that is widely known in this fictional world, even by characters that can't read the chronicle itself. Thus, every character in the book knows the full saga, but instead of Bakker allowing the reader to know about these events as well, he gives a trickle of information that never edifies. When a writer keeps the reader ignorant in a way that a character is also ignorant then that can create sympathy. When a writer keeps the reader ignorant where all the characters are in-the-know, at best it's an unnecessary irritation and at worst it creates a hole in the world building. Apparently Bakker doesn't realize this. He also keeps the reader in the dark for a huge number of pages concerning the magic system on this world, though that seemingly stems as much from his own lack of understanding of the system as it does his desire to give the reader only scraps of information."
>>7999421
"Moving on to the plot: there are machinations between characters here, but the main plot is a fantasy take on the Crusades, where a Holy War is launched by the fantasy Christians to retake the land occupied by the fantasy Muslims. Hundreds upon hundreds of pages are devoted to depictions of the battles of the Holy War and the trials and tribulations of the army. The problem is, none of the main characters of this novel care about the war at all. They use the war for their own interests, or follow it as part of an unrelated mission, and have no personal investment as to whether it succeeds or fails. The lone character who genuinely believes in the Holy War is a character named Proyas, a second-tier character who is fleshed out little. Thus, for the hundreds of pages of battles it's impossible to care if the army takes that city or fights off that cavalry charge or if troop morale is low or high. What was Bakker thinking, making every major character care about revenge, power, control, knowledge, love, every conceivable motivation except for the one motivation of faith that actually would drive a Holy War? Thus, all the battles are mere background to the different plots of the characters.
This flaw is magnified by the fact that we learn early on that this whole war between the fantasy Christians and fantasy Muslims isn't important, because the battle between good and evil is right around the corner. The passages where dreams explore the First Apocalypse are actually interesting, and have stakes, compared to the Holy War where it seems of little import who wins or who loses- the real battle is up ahead. The fact that the real battle is never reached (is never even begun) further emphasizes the prologue nature of this series.
When the final volume "explains" the Holy War, it makes very little sense (if I'm understanding it correctly the idea was that it would allow for the world to be unified against the great evil that will soon emerge. How exactly does the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people based on religious and ethnic differences lead to unity?). The main overarching plot is a huge mistake on Bakker's part."
>>7999421
Source on this review?
>>7999424
"Finally, on to the biggest flaw of this book, the characters. Specifically one character, Kellhus. Kellhus is at first presented as preternaturally good at manipulating people. Fine, though I think it strange that Bakker identifies homeschooling as the path to extreme social competence. But then it's revealed that he's also the most amazing fighter ever, capable of beating the best warrior in the world in single combat having only suffered one blow. Later on someone mentions that the only thing he lacks is the ability to use magic. Then it's discovered that he is one of the very, very few who can use magic, and he's the best ever at it. He's also an incredibly quick learner of everything, and even designs some siege weapons that makes everyone's jaw drop, because why not? In short, Kellhus suffers from superman syndrome, being so good at everything that he's unsympathetic, there's no dramatic tension to anything he does, and in general he's not so much a character as he is a plot robot." I don't mean to suggest that Kellhus would be a better character if he had fewer strengths, though, since as soon as Bakker granted Kellhus the ability to manipulate people this whole character was hopeless. An author has certain limitations on what characteristics he can write, and those limitations are based on the author's own characteristics. Thus, if an author isn't smart, that author won't be able to write very smart characters. He can write characters that are quicker with a comeback, or who know a lot about a topic, because for the former the author can take time writing something that he or she wouldn't be able to think of on the spur of the moment, and for the latter the author can do research and put that in the character's mouth. How smart a character is, though, is limited by how smart the author is, since if an author were able to successfully answer the question "hmm, what would someone smarter than me do?" then that author would be the smarter person. That's not a loop that happens. In this case, the relevant limitation is that an author can't believably write a character who can understand and manipulate people better than the author can."
>>7999432
"Bakker is clearly no savant at manipulating people: the chapters showcasing Kellhus's mastery over others are thoroughly unconvincing, the theoretical underpinnings of that mastery are laughable as well. Instead we have a character mentioning bland "truths" about people and then those people begin licking that character's boots. It reminded me a bit of Ayn Rand, who populated her books with selfish lazy parasites to make the characters espousing her philosophy look better by comparison. Here we have a world populated by easily manipulated idiots in order to try to convince us that Kellhus is truly a master manipulator (and thus that Bakker can convincingly write such manipulation and understanding). Because of this the character that serves as the keystone of this narrative is not written believably or interestingly. It makes the book a mess.
This book raised my hopes in the beginning, depicting a dying world filled with monumental ruins of ages past, populated by strange creatures and a few humans struggling to survive. Then it turned into generic fantasy stuff, even including the cliche of a game with unexplained rules that symbolizes whatever the author needs it to. Then it turned into below average fantasy as the character of Kellhus gained more prominence. When it became clear that this book was going to focus on a war that no one cared about, while hiding some of the only interesting parts of the world, that it would blatantly serve as a prologue and not a complete book, and that it would take 1,800 pages to do it, it was revealed as yet another crappy fantasy series. Don't let the opening chapters fool you, this book is a waste of time."
>>7999425
bBrown, a local poster, he posts here I think. One of the trio of Catholic Wolfeposters who have good taste.
Why is the flowchart such shit?
>>7999459
Yeah, I'll trust him over nameless shills.
Part 2 of the Great Book of Amber, here I come
>>7999437
I think it's worth adding that the first book (the only one I bothered to read) ends with page after page of maps and linguistic charts drawn by a person who has clearly only heard rumors of both geography and historical linguistics. The language charts in particular are laughable, and as far as I read were also never even slightly relevant.
>>7999248
I agree about Foundation, although it can be fun in a pulpy sort of way, but Dune was just awful. The universe is fascinating and all that, but the book completely failed to make me care about anyone or anything in it and keeps getting bogged down in endless expository narration from characters whose motivations and actions you still don't really understand after reading them. I honestly think it would have been better if the whole thing had been written as a history book instead of just those interstitial bits between chapters.
I've tried to read it five times and I've never made it more than a quarter into the second book before I get bored and switch to something else.
This might be a long shot, but maybe you guys can work a wonder.
When I was a lil kid I used to go to the library and just take out books from the fantasy section and read them.
I'm trying to remember a series I read (I think it was a duology, 90% sure, maybe a trilogy but not longer).
What I can remember is pretty broad and I guess will fit to many fantasy books of the 80s and 90s.
The story was about elemental shamans/wizards and the hero being something like the Avatar, a pupil of one school who had to learn multiple ways to be able to fight the evil king and his evil army of near invulnerable monster knights. The hero group consisted of the hero, his wise mentor, the comedic relief sidekick and the heros love interest. The book also had sex scenes in it and the tone was generally darker.
I'm pretty sure this fits like 90% of pulp fantasy of that time, but maybe it rings with one of you guys.
>>7999424
The Holy War is a vehicle for the Dunyain to take over control over the people of the world by using their religion and tendency for self-delusion. A bitter pill for a Catholic to swallow, I guess.
>>7999432
And Kellhus is good at manipulating people because he can read their exact inner thoughts and feelings from their face, even their subconscious ones. He's a huge Mary Sue but this review paints him in a false light. Playing into one's feelings is pretty much manipulation in a nutshell, and it has little to do with how well the author can manipulate. The analogy with intelligence is a false one, you can understand manipulation without being really good at it because you're bad at reading someone's emotions.
>>7999499
Still, the review opposed to the constant, but uneloquent shills is more indicative for me if I'll like it.
We have a pretty similar taste.
>>7999421
>>7999499
The fact that Bakker only gives the reader bit by bit information on the world wasn't that bad, he sketches a world that becomes more and more understandable as the book progresses. And it's stated in the book that most people regard the happenings of the First Apocalypse as a myth without much importance. Except for the sorcerers of the Mandate who relive those events every night and are regarded as lunatics.
Other than that I agree with the rest of his criticism, but to call it not worth reading is exaggeration.
>>7999465
Your loss lad, one of the better fantasy books that have been released in the past decade.
>>7999509
What do you like? If you like lively descriptions that tickle the imagination, like battle scenes, but are also a fan of detailed and in-depth character developments it is the book for you. If you only enjoy challenging fantasy like Wolfe writes, it might be disappointing.
>>7999517
I'm choosing between a risky long read and an author I know is good. Decided to go with This Immoral instead of 2nd half of Amber.
Zelanzy is one of the best stylists in sff and is constant in quality.
>>7999524
The review makes it seem if none of those are particularly well done. Maybe after this or something, if anything to be a part of the conversation.
>>7999266
I'm not sure it's quite what you're looking for, but C. J. Cherryh's Rusalka trilogy is dark fantasy. Major theme I recall is unforeseen consequences. A wizard's power is expressed through the forcefulness of their desires, but the results are often subtle and not immediate.
>doesn't revolve around the usual politics in a kingdom and such
Main setting is forest, with a cast of around 5-7 characters. Mythical aspects are taken from Russian folklore.
>>7999499
The description of why and how Kellhus can manipulate people is fine, but I think the point the review is making is that Bakker kind of falls down when it comes to showing him doing it. There's often a definite disconnect between what we see him do and how people react to it.
He's still far more entertaining to read about than the wizard spy dude, whose name I forget. I could not have cared less about that guy's relationship issues and found most of his chapters a slog to get back to the Super Sociopath and Step Nomad Man show.
>>7999534
That reviewer misunderstands certain aspects of the book and overexposes legitimate issues the book has. Doesn't make it not worth reading IMO.
>>7999551
Kellhus' manipulations are indeed not amazing, but it's believable enough he's able to convince an army of religious zealots that he is a prophet.
And yes, the relationship issues could drag on a bit, but they fit his character perfectly. It was also a nice contrast with the fact that he's very powerful.
Any good fantasy that has strong elements of mystery and eeriness / horror?
>>7999588
I recommend Finch, by Jeff VanDerMeer. It was an enjoyable read.
>>7999588
Gormenghast and Book of the New Sun. Generic responses, I know, but both have mysterious, strong atmospheres.
Neither is horror, but both have an eerie quality to them.
Mystery is the main drive for New Sun plot wise as it's like a Rubik cube in novel form.
>>7997526
C.S. Friedman actually has original ideas for books.
>>7999449
>falling so hard for the Wolfe meme that you go Catholic
>>7999623
Is this series good?
>>7999627
Actually happened to me.
>>7996155
No. It's horrible.
>>7998292
If you mean skipping Forever Free, then yeah, I would agree with that. If you can somehow unhook the neurons in your brain in such a way that you can understand the plot of Free without regarding it as a sequel to War, it's still fine enough to read, but otherwise ignore it.
>>7997440
>joining with an omnipotent universal intelligence
Yeah, for a bunch of kids. What about me, huh?
>>7999738
You'd die of old age after experiencing the greatest golden age in the history of mankind.
>>7996481
Im on book 8 and so far the 3rd is the saddest. The whole ending is just constant sadness
>>7999551
>Not liking Akka, the most empathetic character in the series
What shit taste. Akka has some of the best chapters in the series like when hegets proyas his new eyes
>>7999939
He was alright most of the time, but the drama that developed with him and what's-her-name did nothing but take up space with the same repeated inner monologue for a good chunk of the first book, and then took a turn for the hilariously contrived at the end of it. Aside from that, there was really nothing he did that struck me as terribly novel or notably well-executed, and all the developments in his portion of the story line were terribly predictable.
It seemed like he was supposed to provide a more emotional take on things being done by calculated and manipulative characters like Kellhus, the other wizards, and a bunch of the aristocrats, but he was always so separate from the rest of the action that it didn't feel particularly meaningful.
>>7998908
Look at the fucking second post in this thread you shitlord
Fuck off
>>7999449
I'm actually not Catholic, though I do tend to favor Catholic authors for whatever reason. Wolfe and Miller for sci-fi, Chesterton too.
Stormlight Archive > Wheel of Time
>>8000316
It is not difficult to be better than Wheel of Time.
Trying to read Sharp Ends... Abercrombie is really phoning it in here
I've been thinking about getting the Deed of Paksenarrion, has anyone read it?
What does /lit/ think of this?
Just finished the first book. pretty book.
I should have probably read Brandon Sanderson first since he mentored the writer
>>8000316
What has the general consensus been on Stormlight Archive, because I fucking love that shit.
>>8000782
Sanderson in general is very polarizing, so there's really no consensus
>>8000780
Pretty good series but it feels rushed at times, particularly the ending.
>>8000782
Book of Mormon/10
>>8000877
Well it was his first series.
It was a good start.
I have faith he'l improve.
