Knighthood Edition
Recommendation Charts:
>Fantasy
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/3v2oXAY.jpg
General: http://i.imgur.com/igBYngL.jpg
Flowchart: http://i.imgur.com/uykqKJn.jpg
>Sci-Fi
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/A96mTQX.jpg
General: http://i.imgur.com/r55ODlL.jpg / http://i.imgur.com/gNTrDmc.jpg
>Opinion on Reddits top fantasy novels? https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/4f1jfj/the_2016_top_rfantasy_novels_poll_results/
>opinion on reddit list
It's shit.
WoT doesn't deserve even a top 25
>harry potter
>Rothfuss
>Sanderson
>top 10
Pick one
At least Hobb gets a deserved mention in the top 10.
>>7932051
>Opinion on Reddits top fantasy novels?
Awful. The top 15 is full-on shit-tier "fantasy series" books.
The only entries worth reading are Guy Gavriel Kay, Gene Wolfe, Fritz Leiber, T.H. White, Mervyn Peake.
What do you guys think of "Demonbane" series?
I've often seen it mentioned in those power level discussion how Demonbane is supposedly so bad ass.
But it's really just a shitty story that's not coherent and just plain awful.
Also most of the claims people make are just misinterpreted shit.
If l like Hawkwind will I like Michael Moorcock's novels? I was thinking of doing the Eternal Champion sequence (vol. 1 - 15) in order some day.
>>7932098
>series
Read the VN you pleb. And it's not supposed to be the most thought provoking thing.
>>7932091
There are a few more, but it's mostly the stuff with 20 or less votes and basically because the list has by virtue of chance almost all fantasy series more commonly known.
How is Black Company?
>>7932091
Worm isn't even a book either.
>>7932110
I included the VN.
It's still shit.
Power level discussions are pure shit anyway.
But if the strongest Demonbane can't permanently kill or seal off Nyarlathotep then how are people claiming it can kill of omnipotent beings?
>t's not supposed to be the most thought provoking thing.
I figured that out already
>pleb
You seriously didn't enjoy that shitstain of a barely coherent "plot"?
>>7932117
Stuff that Erikson copied.
Any other writers in here?
>tfw trying to get this draft done but it feels like pulling teeth
>>7932113
There's no mention of the great modern fantasy writers like Jack Vance, John Crowley, Tim Powers, Robert Holdstock, Michael Swanswick, etc. None of those names appears on the list even once.
>>7932129
>Can critique the shit out of prose left and right
>Try to write and it's barely a step above shit you'd find on fanfiction.net
>>7932125
I don't give a shit about power level discussions mate. If that's the reason why you started reading it then I have no words for you. It is what it says on the tin: mecha fights with lovecraftian influences, not sure why you'd expect a literary masterpiece out of that premise.
>>7932137
I didn't expect a literary masterpiece.
It's about as coherent as the Twilight movies.
>>7932134
I largely have my plot together its just individual scenes I'm trying to work out. Prose isn't that big of a challenge for me, but holy hell is actually completing something is. I do better with short one-page stuff but anything longer and its a battle. Somehow I still managed to put myself to the task of a 2 part novel.
>Opinion on Reddits top fantasy novels?
It's a popularity contest and the results are to be expected. I don't think a beginner can go too far wrong choosing an author from that top....~10 or so. Before moving on and finding your niche in the genre.
>>7932129
>can write great dialogues all day long
>leave gaps for description to fill in later
>never finish them
>>7932176
Also, name all my characters 'Joe' or something like that, because i can't come up with names.
>>7932131
I didn't to through all of it, first dozen were painful enough.
>>7932181
kek i do that with my secondaries and have to come up with better names later
like you get this authentic sci-fi setting with a detailed world then theres some prick named Jake
That's quite a good list from Reddit actually. It's just popularity based so the top 20 is very predictable and full of entry level work, but most of them are actually good and are popular for a reason. The best entry level works tend to be enjoyable even for more experienced readers anyway.
I imagine you would get a fairly similar list if /sffg/ voted.
>>7932051
>ASoIaF higher than Tolkien
Fucking reddit
>>7932091
Looks like the Wolfe and Peake shill has added GGK to his list.
You're an obnoxious elitist ass, but I can't help but like your taste, [Spoiler]even if I do find Peake horribly overrated.
>>7932225
I doubt it. For one there's a bunch of authors they don't know exist.
Or are you one of those "there is only one guy who doesn't like Sanderson or shit author x"?
>>7932236
You see I didn't read GKK, there are more people with taste here who aren't me. Also I didn't read White and would opt for few other authors such as Borges and Chesterton.
>>7932237
Have you been in one of these threads when a new Sanderson book comes out? It's not necessarily a vocal minority of haters, but it seems like all you get is hate, until suddenly every thread is full of Mistborn discussion and theories, and not just from the one who keeps posting maps.
It's a retarded system. There's no difference in quality. You can vote for wolfe and Sanderson and they both get 1 point. Why not add some sort of quality points? This way, it's better not to vote for certain books...,
Who /bakker/ here? what's your favorite quote from the series ?
>>7932246
Yeah, we get cross boarders. Or just people who like it like I like warhammer novels. Not something you'd vote on a favorite list.
>>7932251
>Do you have your mother's bones?
For those saying women can write... Here is the exact moment Le Guin went to shit.
"I
stopped writing. The book had a woman in it, but I didn't know how to write
about women. I blundered around awhile and then found some guidance in
feminist theory. I got excited when I discovered feminist literary criticism
was something I could read and actually enjoy. I read The Norton Book of
Literature by Women from cover to cover. It was a bible for me. It taught me
that I didn't have to write like an honorary man anymore, that I could write
like a woman and feel liberated in doing so."
>>7932269
context. Don't remember this one.
I'm going to write the most anime science fantasy story ever, get a Hugo for it, and comeback here to brag about it to all you plebs.
>>7932274
Sanderson please.
>>7932274
>He thinks he can out anime Sanderson
So what makes me plebean for liking the Kingkiller series?
>>7932282
to put it simply, its shit. The plot is tailor made for neckbeards. It's the twilight equivalent.
In twilight, you have a plain, boring and forgettable girl. She does her thing worrying about everything. Then one day a vampire falls in love with her. Basically he has everything a woman would want. He is older(experience). He looks young and rich, he is hot and he literally can't control himself around her. This guy is simply the best and of course he chooses her, out of all the hot sloots or beautiful nice girls in the world, she is so damn special. When a dumb 13 year old reads this shit, she imagines edward coming for her and rescuing her from a boring life.
Kingkiller uses the same formula. It's just for men. There are some good moments in it, you can still enjoy it only for the cringe factor. I would say read the damn thing and extract 3-5 quotes/scenes that are well written. Other than that, it has no merit. It's meme tier...
>>7932281
who is that guy?
>>7932072
>https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/4f1jfj/the_2016_top_rfantasy_novels_poll_results/
>"Maybe I'll eat my words, but I think ASOIAF is easily as important to fantasy literature as Lord of the Rings. It injected depth and gravitas into a genre that (I felt) was becoming more and more narrow. I don't think it's leaving the top 2 until a new book or series comes along that is good enough to unseat it. I'm guessing that will take a while."
Holy shit the delusion is real. Reddit is actually worse than I even imagined.
>>7932302
>It injected depth and gravitas into a genre that (I felt) was becoming more and more narrow.
Sounds like some insane meta-parody I could have written.
>>7932282
>Rothfuss is a skilled writer, with good storytelling instincts and the ability to drop just enough specific detail into his worldbuilding to make his Central Casting characters come alive (or at least half-alive, like Pinnochio dolls), but not so much that it bogs down the narrative or bores the reader. There's nothing wearisome here, except possibly the sheer weight of the book itself in one's hands; overall it's a smooth-rolling reading experience that passes the time, is fairly entertaining, and has a few moments of excitement. But here's the thing: it's a fundamentally cosy book. It flatters the reader. It winks at her, promising her the real thing rather than some sanitised storybook version, at the same time sanitising anything that might genuinely unsettle, or unnerve, or wrongfoot her readerly expectations. It, like many works of contemporary fantasy, panders to a sort of imaginative tourism, a safe entry into an escapist imaginative space defined by its reassuring familiarity. Cosiness is a good quality in sweaters. It is not a merit in books.
>>7932302
>The Walking Dead x Tolkien fanfiction
>Important to literature
>>7932273Maithanet saying it to Kelmomas after crushing Inrilatas skull, remarking how it was so easy to do
>>7932309
>Cosiness is a good quality in sweaters. It is not a merit in books.
He doesn't know what he's saying
>>7932051
>redshit
Can you guys stop trying to merge that festering pool of filth with our pristine site?
I'm not even opening that link. Want me to see it? Make a screenshot.
>>7932309
But that's just a bunch of buzwords mashed together.
All things he said could be summarized in just 1 sentence, possibly less.
> It flatters the reader. It winks at her, promising her the real thing rather than some sanitised storybook version, at the same time sanitising anything that might genuinely unsettle, or unnerve, or wrongfoot her readerly expectations.
What's this even supposed to mean?
That it has no plottwists? Everything can be predicted right from the beginning?
>real thing rather than some sanitised
>at the same time sanitising anything
This isn't a serious post you quoted, is it?
>>7932325
us 4 channers am I rite xD do I fit in yet guys?
>>7932325
Reddit has been merged with this site since 2008
>>7932125
>Stuff that Erikson copied.
and made three times better
>>7932131
>Michael Swanswick
My nigga
He's criminally underrated in my opinion. Iron Dragon's Daughter is easily the best fantasy of the 90s.
>>7932299
It's ya boi socrates
>>7932310
>book was out before walking dead was even though of by producers
It really gets my autism, when you faglets say that x is like y, when x was out decades before y was even conceived.
Why do you do this?
>hurr durr malazan and a game of thrones is reddit
>both books were out before the year 2000
How is Greg Egan? I've heard him recommended lately and I'm thinking of starting with Quarantine.
>>7932247
>burn all Sanderson books and any books I don't like
>my likes are the epitome of the entire human civilization
>you should feel honored that I took time out of busy day to tell you, that you have shit tastes
>if you like things I dislike you are a plebeian
>>7932051
>Brandon sanderson is literally redbit
>GRRM is literally redbit
Typical
>>7932398
>Why do you do this?
>It really gets my autism
Stop answering your own questions.
>>7932334
>here since 08
>still trying to fit in
I guess I suck at fitting in then huh?
Name one person currently publishing epic fantasy who can compete with Sanderson.
just ONEcheckmate prosefags
>>7932463
Epic fantasy is shit so who would you complete with?
>>7932468
>hurr durr I have no skill in extended story telling where plotholes pop up like acne scars on Morpheus's face
>i will just say it's a waste of my time
>>7932468
this desu
I actively avoid shit running longer than 4 books unless I'm currently reading it, like GRRM, Bakker and Lynch.
>>7932486
By extended storytelling you mean padding your main quest with filler?
>>7932490
>dons felt concave device with circular rim
*tips*
>>7932502
Its ok, I like anime too.
Is it bad that I'm enjoying the first book of WoT?
It feels really comfy.
>>7932486
It's true, I don't have storytelling skills.
But I also don't write and if I ever do it won't be fantasy.
But the thing about epic fantasy is that it tells in 100000 pages what a better author tells in 1/10 or 1/100 of it. It's mostly fillet.
Just compare something like Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser to First Law or some other series that has dozens of volumes. Leiber will tell the same story with more grace in a novella.
>>7932506
It's said to go downhill fast.
And I don't think anyone here minds enjoyment of anything.
>>7932508
Except First Law is way better than Grey Mouser so your argument is moot.
>>7932519
I havent even read Grey Mouser but i can already sense thats bullshit.
First Law is fucking bad
>>7932506
Because it's clear Jordan grew up on a farm and can relate the experience of smalltown living in a hokey and amusing way. And the clear Tolkien aping for a cherry on top
However that is ALL he can do. I repeat, ALL HE CAN DO. Stop now while you find the character's bumbling to be oddly endearing and cute. You will tarnish this by reading onward
>>7932521
Grey Mouser is shit. Take your elitist inclinations away from here.
>only old books should be read
>nothing of value was written after 1980
I really hate you fedoras
>>7932506
6 books in and I still think it's comfy. They really don't take that long to read, I will hold out even if they get really boring since the last 3 are supposed to be good.
>>7932521
It really is. It's the first novel I've read in a while where the author had insulting exposition. He felt the need for the character to give himself an internal exposition on things everyone knew in the start. And it's generally filled with cliches and bad writing such as this, as well as having 1/3 of it about an obnoxious young gun, which in itself isn't necessarily a problem, but when you lack any depth about it just become dumb. It isn't Holden or some other cunt character where such characterisation makes sense. He is just ruled by a formulaic mind, his work feels like he went to a Hollywood writing school for blockbusters.
Is anyone excited about the rumored september release of Peace Talks? Did Butcher put the Dresden files on a hiatus for too long?
>>7932554
Book of the New Sun was finished in 1985 and Wizard Knight in 2005 and Latro in 2006.
I don't think anyone cares about the age, it's just Abercrombie and most authors of the genre being awful.
>>7932051
>https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/4f1jfj/the_2016_top_rfantasy_novels_poll_results/
>22. The Dark Tower
I finished this like a week or so ago and it was utter trash.
Stephen King is a fucking hack.
>>7932578
All of those are inferior to First Law desu.
>>7932591
>>7932591
>New Sun inferior to First fucking Law
>>7932583
I couldn't finish IT (making it the first book I didn't finish), which is supposed to be his magnum opus, so yeah
>>7932255
Is the Malus Darkblade series one worth bothering with then?
>>7932597
It was my first experience with King and my friends had spoken about The Dark Tower as if it were one of the greatest series of books ever written.
The concept was decent but King ruined the series on so many levels.
>>7932602
The Dark Tower is his self proclaimed magnum opus. His written style is extremely obnoxious.
>>7932610
But the critics say It is his beat work. And at least his shit is good in film format.
Read the first 4 chapters (40 pages) of Shadow of the Torturer and am not impressed. Sevarian is decently interesting but the "plot" is not very engaging and a little too slow paced for me. Prose is alright but overdone at points. Probably gonna put the book on indefinite hold for now.
>>7932619
>reading for the plot
It also has a slower start. Is Thecla at least dead by this point and Severian exiled?
>>7932607
The only authors that are readable in wh are Abnett and Dembeski Bowen. They are not very good, but work as entertainment if you like the universe. Everyone else is so bad it is essentially unreadable drivel.
>>7932616
>And at least his shit is good in film format.
You haven't heard about The Dark Tower movie, have you?
>>7932633
>he already decided the movie is gonna be bad
classic 4chan
>>7932628
>Is Thecla at least dead by this point and Severian exiled?
Nope, he started nursing some dog.
It reminds me a little of Assassin's Apprentice, first person and slow character driven story, which I also disliked (but at least I finished that book, so I guess I liked it a bit more). Probably just not for me.
>>7932428
>what is judging a book at least objectively
>what is critical thinking when trying to understand a book
>even if flawed ( you can't be 100% objective) you can still determine the quality of a work of art
>after all of this ,thinking that Sanderson and Wolfe are on the same level, using any metric
>if you like things I dislike, there's no problem, I can understand liking stupid things and being entertained
> If you like things I dislike, and say Sanderson is superior(from a writing perspective) to Wolfe,Erikson,Bakker,Tolkien etc....you are a plebeian
>I don't know how to greentext, but I don't have shit tastes at least.
>>7932639
>Idris Elba is cast as Roland Deschain
>female lead is a new character called Tirana played by Abbey Lee
You honestly think it can be good?
They've already butchered the story by race swapping the 2 protagonists and replacing Susannah with some white chick.
>>7932642
Heh the book hasn't even started by that point.Also it isn't nursing, he literally resurrected the dog.
Wolfe requires attention and isn't really fun in the way Leiber or Moorcock are so take that for what you will
>>7932651
>You honestly think it can be good?
I hope so. Elba is a damn good actor and Roland's race doesn't really matter outside his interactions with Susannah/Detta in the second and third books, and by making Susannah white they sort of keep that.
I demand they get Aaron Paul for Eddie, no one else can do. Ok maybe Sam Rockwell.
>>7932642
don't be a pleb. Understand that it's a story about ideas, not explosions and shit happening. Get some wine, put some wood on the fireplace, open the curtains and let the sun shine in ( or light a few candles if it's night).
Sit down and read the damn thing. Slowly. Put it down. Think. Reflect about what you have read and continue.
This shit ain't Sanderson, you can't enjoy it if you expect something like that.
>>7932669
>get some wine
>put some wood on the fireplace
*tips fedora*
>>7932669
Its not even that serious. The book is enjoyable enough to read without pretending its some grand undertaking.
Right enough about chilling out and absorbing it, but lets not overstate things.
>>7932669
>lighting a fire in daytime
>>7932669
I never expected anything like that. I was fully aware of what kind of book it was before I got into it, and I gave it a honest shot but what I read of it I didn't like so I don't see why I would continue.
>>7932676
>lighting a fire in daytime
Actually people did that because fire was lit for the heat as well. It's comfy, we used to warm ourselves exclusively with wood.
>>7932682
>I don't see why I would continue.
Because of all the awesome things coming your way and it being an essential read of fantasy literature.
>>7932701
I'm not really a fan of the "read at least 300 pages trust me it gets good!" meme. I fell for it a couple of times and it never paid off.
>>7932713
Just read what you want to read.
I had a number of false starts with BOTNS but at some point I just breezed on through it. Everyone has their own time for things.
Is there anything with more rape and depression than Bakker? I want something soul crushing and disgusting.
>>7932713
This is good from the start desu, but the plot starts moving faster when Severian gets exiled.
>>7932746
Bakker is pretty tame compared to some anime t b h
Berserk being an obvious one
>>7932746
Yes, it's called Russian literature, or at least some of it.
>>7932072
Thish hate *sniff* againsht reddit *sniff* ish pure ideology, I claim.
>>7932757
Besides dat? I know of "uber blatt"(or something similar) Spice and wolf and maybe a few more...not much of an expert.
What do you recomment? Dark setting/depressive world is my first thing.
>>7932797
Claymore has alot of that, I hear
>>7932797
oh and Gantz
>>7932251
I am Cnaiur urs Skiötha, breaker-of-horses-and-men!",
"I am Cnaiür urs Skiötha, most violent of all men!
I bear your fathers and brothers upon my arms!
>>7932807
Can confirm, Haibane may as well be the best anime in terms of writing made thus far.
>>7932674
Yeah....get to the end and then come back and say that. You haven't even scratched the surface.and you haven't even been made aware that Severian has already died and resurrected at least once
Buckle up kid. You're in for a ride.
>>7932827
Been there done thatI read the book long before it became a meme on /lit/ :^)
>>7932682
>Read the first 4 chapters (40 pages)
>So I don't see why I would continue
Giving up a book after only reading about 10% of the text is absurdly dumb.
Oh wait, you're one of those people who needs to be "sucked into a story" right?
You probably should give up Wolfe, he'll go over your head.
>>7932797
Mark Lawrence thorns. Richard Morgan Land fit for Heroes.
I just finished The Final Empire and god damn I feel almost cheated.
So the Lord Rulerwas a fucking Terris -packman- that killed the real Hero of the Ages?God dammit.
>>7932835
It's actually 5%, 2 Orb volumes are about 800 pages and it's a coherent story so you can't read just Shadow and Claw.
>>7932779
upvoted
>>7932835
I disagree, rarely is there reason to read more than 50 pages to realize whether something is worth your time or not.
>>7932803
Tried it, both anime and manga, nice
>>7932805
watched the anime. meeh
>>7932807
I am intrigued. It's rare for anime to have good directing and writing. Only after getting interested in this shit did I understand how lame most animes are.
>>7932813
>weeping faggot
>breaker of men
>>7932824
I will watch it now, based on your recommendations alone. I trust /lit/
>>7932837
Read all of that. I am out of stuff to read honestly. I'm only left with obscure shit or painfully average shit.
>>7932870
Because you are a pleb. You read 50 pages, decide you don't like it, and any opinion you may hold after is completely biased. Something like reading is intellectual, you can't judge it like you judge a ho, decide in 0.3 sec if she's hawt or not.
>>7932870
>I disagree, rarely is there reason to read more than 50 pages to realize whether something is worth your time or not.
What is Moby-Dick, In Search of Lost Time, Ulysses, The Brothers Karamazov, War and Peace, etc. etc. etc.
>>7932880
The very first page of MD tells you that its worth reading
>>7932870
First 50 pages of The Republic don't really get into anything Plato is known for, you don't continue reading because of what you have read, but because of the collective experience of people who know more on the subject who tell you that it's worth reading.
Different book work in different ways and I don't think anyone should drop a book before at least 1/3 or 1/2 unless it's complete garbage, which The New Sun isn't.
>>7932881
But the first 100 pages of just about every longer Dostoevsky novel or War and Peace are slow, boring and only serve the purpose of setting up the actual plot, the same of which can to an extent be said of New Sun.
>>7932874
He broke Conphas's sweet little boypussy, that's for damn sure
>>7932885
literally a pleb. Watch out for this one, he's dangerous.
>>7932890
>comparing philosophy to fiction
What? And I used to not drop books, but I weighed the benefits of doing that and came to the conclusion it's not worth it. Every book I considered dropping but finished I regretted not dropping when I thought of doing so.
>>7932293
Reading more, I am pissed off at all the shit about women and diane, im near chapter 70 right now, I really liked how it began and the middle but this, I don't know.
>>7932282
I'm reading the second book right now. I'm glad to see others who like it.
>>7932293
This is a ridiculous assessment. The main character suffers greatly in his life, and whenever something does go his way it's still not how he would like it to be. He progresses through his life with sheer determination and hard work.
If you think that Kingkiller follows the same formula as Twilight, you probably haven't read either
>>7932908
I also spoke of Dostoevsky and Tolstoy. Plato may have been an awkward example, but he actually does read like a play and has a gorgeous style.
>>7932923
Suffering doesn't make him a less perfect character.
And him being the perfect fantasy of Rothfuss and other progressive tumblirinas.
You could easily criticize it ignoring it because he has no personality and is utterly shallow as a character with tons of forced, awkward wit where Rothfuss is trying to write a genius and having no conception of how to even write a moderately intelligent character because of how stupid he is. His stupidity seeps through all of his interviews, he has the mind on the level of John Green.
not my kind of thread to be frank
>>7932867
Put on the glasses my friend.
>>7932940
>he has the mind on the level of John Green.
So of a genius? Ordering Name of the Wind on amazon right now.
>>7932051
>http://i.imgur.com/r55ODlL.jpg / http://i.imgur.com/gNTrDmc.jpg
Just finished Fountains of Paradise, amazing read on of the best sci-fi ive read. Really does seem like a realisable project. WHY ARENT WE BUILDING A SPACE ELEVATOR AND FOCUSING ON EXPENSIVE ROCKET PROGRAMMES??
>>7932984
Because it isn't needed or profitable probably, just like giant robots.
>>7933005
Are these shuttle programmes or ISS profitable? Both are just money sinks, which are done for reasons other than making money. ( Obviously for better goals to further science and cultural showboating.)
I think the main reason its not a consideration is because the materials that Clarke uses to build it simply don't exist yet. However I'm surprised Governments haven't been investing more in close orbit structures.
>>7933023
Maybe because people in space get pretty fucked up long term due to radiation and lack of gravity
>So bored I'm thinking about reading ASOIAF just to see why /lit/ hates it so much
>>7933039
>TFW you will never be a space pioneer
Yeah fair enough, guess Earth has enough problems on terrafirma to try and exploit space. Tis a shame.
>>7933046
The TV series is superior desu. Cuts out the boring stuff. Read Rohtfuss instead :^)
>>7933046
People here pretend being a patrician for fun, others don't get it and take it seriously.
>>7933072
what does patrician mean? not from America.
Bonus points for serious answer instead of memes.
>>7933061
>supporting a narcissistic sociopath
Might as well cheer for Kellhus
I don't know if I'm in the good thread to ask this, but is Steven Savile actually a good author or not?
>>7933099
It means someone who claims to have a superior taste in books to all the general idiotic population or "plebs"
ROTHFUSS IS SHIT
>>7933123
Never heard of him, and since he's still alive probably not.
>>7933046
The almost universal reaction to GRRM once you actually read him seems to be "hey, this is actually decent".
I said decent mind you, not spectacular but at least competently written.
I'd bet good money the most rabid haters of ASOIAF on this board have never read a single word of it.
>>7932646
>If you like things I dislike, and say Sanderson is superior(from a writing perspective) to Wolfe,Erikson,Bakker,Tolkien etc....you are a plebeian
Never said he was better, but he is entertaining with simple easy prose.
You guys behave like all Sanderson readers should be purged.
I like Wolfe,Erikson and Bakker, fuck Tolkien. Their works are better because they had time to perfect their work, but Sanderson just started. By the time he is finished with his Epic, you WILL see an improvement with his works.
He WILL join the names of Wolfe and Bakker. His books are visually getting better with each release.
You think Wolfe and Tolkien's first works was the face of Aphrodite? No it was shit, it's only with editing that a writer gets betters and Sanderson IS getting better.
Fug Off.
>>7933179
GRRM has some quircks that got me on my nerves.
But I haven't read any of his books for more than a decade except Fevre Dream
>>7933267
>Fevre Dream
How is that anyway?
>>7933257
Nigga Sanderson has published like 20 books by now, he struck gold and found his formula, he's not gonna suddenly shit out a Gormenghast.
It'll be epic fantasy for the next four decades. Fucking Mormons I swear.
>>7933257
>He WILL join the names of Wolfe and Bakker.
Implying Bakker is even near the same level as Wolfe.
>>7933271
Good, about as good as vampire novels will ever get.
>>7933106
he is a cheeky cunt. I can't remember the quote...But kellhus said something like "pride is a defect of the womb"
>>7933257
Wasn't Hobbit Tolkien's first?
Also Sanderson has published thousands of pages.
Did anyone notice something reminiscent of literature there?
>>7933257
Nigga, Sanderson is shitting out books like a mad man. He has absolutely no style. Imagine him waiting twice as long on each book, now that would actually be an improvement.
>>7933296
>implying there's anyone as creative and ambitious as Bakker. Remember, he is only at half. First trilogy done. Second half done( 4 books in total) and there will be a third. He already is more ambitious with his themes.
Anyway, these 2 are too great to be compared.
>>7933341
I honestly cant understand how people like Sanderson. He's like the Bieber of the writing world. There are dozens of better authors...The only thing he excels at is consistency and speed. Anyone here can give a good critique of this writing style? I am curious of a more objective and expert oppinion.
Has anybody read the Southern Reach Trilogy by VanDerMeer?
I read Finch and it was pretty good.
>>7933356
>I honestly cant understand how people like Sanderson.
I like his books
>>7933356
Not everyone reads for prose. Stormlight Archive has one of the most satisfying to read plots in fantasy.
>>7933376
NEXT
BOOK
WHEN
?????
>>7932835
>Giving up a book after only reading about 10% of the text is absurdly dumb.
You are a FUCKING HYPOCRITE.
You guys read part of Sanderson and part of Brent Weeks, called it shit, then proudly announced how you were dropping it.
Now here you are posting how we should stick through your dry, boring, meme book because "it's so good".
fuck off you cunt
>>7933382
2017 then one every two years
>>7933414
Main difference is Wolfe being a fantastic writer, known for only the highest quality novels and Sanderson being known for 3k pages of anime drivel.
Dropping John Green is not the same as dripping Dostoevsky.
>>7933431
It's the exact same thing. In both cases you will know whether you like their works or not before having finished the book.
>>7933438
Not exactly. Especially for Dostoevsky. I don't know anyone who enjoys his first 10% of the big 4. And of course there is a significant difference between finding a book boring, but seeing something there and a novel being unreadable trash. Books are different.
>>7933450
Funny you say especially Dosto, I gave C&P 210 pages exactly before dropping it because of how well people speak of it and it was no different in style from the first 100 pages.
>>7933423
God damn that's a long wait.
But at least his books are really long, oh well, guess I'll read the rest of the mistborn as I wait
>>7933470
Mistborns fucking boring desu and I like Stormlight Archive. I recommend reading someone else while waiting
>>7933478
I really enjoyed the first trilogy, Alloy of Law was really weak but I don't want to just drop the entire series.
>>7933450
Fucking
Pretentious
Hypocrite
Fuck
Off
>>7932508
But can Leiber do epic worldbuilding and magic systems??
Just finished this. Great stuff. Do you guys know more SF like this? I hear the direct sequel isn't that good.
>>7933564
He has a really nice world if that's what you are asking. He has a lot of funky adventures with strange cultures and ancient relics, it's breathing with a weight of history.
>>7933496
I'm here to stay and annoy you.
>>7933469
Style was the same, but the fact that we are even having this conversation means it's probably too complex for you. If matters of life and death, overman and redemption as well as some of the most complex characters don't interest you, Wolfe certainly won't.
>>7933602
Being boring has nothing to do with complexity. I fully understood everything yet it was not engaging.
I was looking to inform myself on whether I would enjoy Wolfe because I seriously don't enjoy the people who talk about it here. I found this and was wondering it you can come up with a quick defense that addresses the main points (mainly the masturbatory ultimately pointless nature of the novels).
https://ruthlessculture.com/2010/03/19/the-shadow-of-the-torturer-1980-the-eye-of-art-turned-inwards/
>>7933602
>I'm here to stay and annoy you.
I like a guy that doesn't put out easily. I hold them down like Hogg does. Best sex ever.
>>7933642
You won't because Wolfe is a hack. Don't fall for the shills.
>>7933634
You understood nothing, but I trust that you found it boring. Or you simply want your reading to be just mindless entertainment.
>>7933642
It's 1/4 of the whole story, it's like taking TBK, splitting it into 4 parts and saying it isn't giving conclusions.
But Wolfe actually does have a very significant point and the author of the article is on to something, clearly an experienced reader. Wolfe is using the tappings of postmodernism and the as you say masturbatory nature of it to turn it on its head. Instead of a meaningless universe, he presents us with a very contradictory one. Evil speaks through symbols, sacraments are twisted and Severian is a mockery of who Christ is. And all of that is a part of the greater plan of the Pancreator that eventually leads to repentance, death and finally salvation. It's a work religious in nature and it does most of the speaking through hidden symbols all throughout itself. Women, resurrection and water, Eucharist, death and resurrection on a massive scale. As Wolfe said it himself, it's a spiritual journey where the main point is change of Severian where he goes from a narcissistic young man to a ruler and most of all servant of God in everything that is asked of him.
>>7933642
For what it's worth, Wolfe is nowhere near as pretentious as the shills here. On a surface level, everything he writes is trashy SF with nice prose obfuscating a deeper meaning that isn't even necessary to enjoyment.
>>7932838
Keep reading, mang. Wait till you finish Hero of Ages.
>>7933179
Personally, I've read all five books before the TV series was even announced. Or was it the first four books and then ADwD came out during season one maybe? I don't remember and don't care to look it up.
Looking back, I can tell that his writing is very gimmick-y, relies on obscene cliffhangers, and nothing is ultimately resolved. Also don't care for his lack of interest in finishing the series.
But go ahead and dismiss the argument as "I'm right and you're wrong" like every single other argument on 4chan nowadays.
>>7933257
You can already see a difference in quality between say Elantris and Stormlight Archive, although tWoK still suffers from (even acknowledged by Sanderson himself) pacing issues. However, you could say that is due to it being the first book and needing to set up the world and whatnot.
>>7933356
He writes a large variety of different fantasy stories. You could read something like Warbreaker which involves a world with color-based magic, or you could read Legion, a novella about a man on Earth who is an intelligent schizophrenic and who manifests his intelligence through hallucinations of different people.
>>7933382
Fall 2017.
>>7933423
>every two years
HAAH WAAW
That's how it was intended to be from the very beginning.
>>7933478
>Mistborn
>boring
Mistborn will be the most important series and already has tons of crazy shit going on. Plus you're a faggot if you dislike Wayne. He'd fit in on 4chan easily.
>>7933706
That's because Wolfe isn't pretentious at all and I'm roleplaying as the local cunt.
Wolfe shill train has no breaks
Gente, leerse mi libro Fugitivos En El Tiempo. Seguirme por twitter: @DalasReview
>>7933746
>Sandersonfag doesn't like GRRM
Not enough magic systems for you? :^)
QUESTION BECAUSE I AM STUPID:
In Second Foundation, during the part where Callia helps Arcadia escape the Palace, it is noticed by Arcadia that Callia has faint amusement in her eyes when Callia turned away to leave back to the Palace. I honestly don't know what was meant by that.
>>7933746
>>every two years
>HAAH WAAW
>That's how it was intended to be from the very beginning.
I just hope it won't be like GRRM where you have to wait a fucking decade for a book
>>7933788
GRRM was fucked over by editors, he is wanted to end it in 3, maybe 4 novels, but they said it can't end like this and he then wrote A Feast For Crows which obviously wasn't planned and is generally redundant.
>>7933788
Nah it won't be that badly.
Honestly, it frustrates me that he began writing for the sole purpose of writing the Cosmere yet he takes many 'breaks' through writing other unrelated books. His reasoning is that it keeps him fresh and if he didn't write the other books, we would still get large gaps with NO books.
Maybe I'm selfish and autistic about this but I don't personally understand it nor like it. If I got into writing to write one specific huge meta series, I'd be busting my ass to get it out and complete. We're already looking at a good 25-30 more years, at least.
>>7933809
Why didn't he man up and say "No, fuck you"?
>>7933812
>We're already looking at a good 25-30 more years, at least.
Definitely, he wants 10 books for the stormlight archives, we have 2 so far.
It's gonna be a long ride.
>>7933829
Though one thing I have to add about stormlight archives is that he made Kaladin too god damned awesome and interesting.
I keep reading and waiting for the next Kaladin chapter
>>7933816
Money?
>>7932236
I'm not a "Wolfe and Peake shill". There are tons of fantasy authors I prefer above them, but they were among the few good entries that actually appeared on the list among the acres of egregious shit.
>>7933861
>There are tons of fantasy authors I prefer above them
Name 5.
>>7932418
Egan is awesome. The best author if you like philosophical fiction. I recommend starting with Permutation City. Quarantine is also good, though.
>>7933829
Plus we have Dragonsteel after that which WAS going to be another ten books but I believe it's been reduced to seven, as of now. Might get shorter.
>>7933414
He thinks 4chan is one person.
>>7933349
>He already is more ambitious with his themes.
Top kek
>>7932554
Jack Vance, John Crowley, Tim Powers, Robert Holdstock, and Michael Swanswick *all* wrote great novels after 1980 - and yet not a single mention of the list. Disgraceful.
Do Esslemont's Malazan novels get any better?
Just read through Knight of Knives after finishing The Crippled God and it was pretty bad.
>>7933896
Nah. I only read Cosmere works, aside from Legion. Haven't even read the Legion sequel. Maybe one day.
>>7933957
I'll have to read Vance soon.
>>7933964
Esselmont is a hack
Sanderson only cares about being prolific and publishing commercial fantasy. His books are sugary, entertainment media. I don't enjoy his stories, but there's nothing wrong with what he's doing. He has good business sense compared to most authors. I predict he will self-publish the first book of a new series within the next three years.
>>7933271
It's good, worth reading a preview. Hope you like rivers.
>>7932418
I also recommend Permutation City. Haven't read Quarantine.
>>7933874
I already did - above.
>Jack Vance, John Crowley, Tim Powers, Robert Holdstock, and Michael Swanswick.
>>7933986
If you like fantasy, check out Vance's Lyonesse Trilogy:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6386834-the-complete-lyonesse
>>7933976
I wonder if he's gonna make series for every one of the shards in the Cosmere
>>7933746
Book five came out after the TV series started, dumbass.
>>7933816
Because AFFC came out before ebooks were popular, and it would've been physically too large to publish without splitting it in half.
>>7934022
I doubt it. We've even already gotten stories about minor Shardworlds--worlds with no Shards invested. Dragonsteel will be the big "information and reveals about the Shards" series.
>>7934027
>say I don't remember
>insulted anyway
Thanks for the personal attack, kiddo~
>>7933365
Love the first book but haven't finished the second after 2 attempts. The narrative style changes pretty drastically between books and it was a little off putting for me. May go back to it soon after finishing my current reads because the world he creates is so interesting.
>The book you want to read doesn't have an audiobook
>The audiobook file is segmented into 5 hour long pieces
>No chapter specific tracks
Why can't they do it right, Kingkiller Chronicles audiobooks do it right, why can't anyone else?
>>7934187
The book clearly states the chapter's number before they start reading
>faggots autism is so high he can't listen to a book that isn't segmented by chapters
>>7934321
>Oh where was I left off
>3hr21m15s
>Cool, let me try to find that page in the book
It's fucking retarded when you're both listening to parts of the book and reading parts.
>>7934187
>not reading
No excuse unless you're dyslexic or blind
>>7934339
I do both, my eyes get fucked after some reading, I get weird double vision and I can't seem to concentrate on the words, happens also when I'm just plain tired. Audiobooks help.
79 days until The Great Ordeal
Are you hyped yet?
>>7934377
>mfw Sorweel wins the Serwabowl
>mfw just about all new coming of age or young protagonist fantasy has a female protagonist
I think Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn or The Magicians were the last books in that class that I enjoyed reading. Why doesn't anyone use young protagonists anymore in fantasy?I swear to god I will flip my shit if anyone recommends me one of those shitty "young assassins" books from Hobb or her zombies write.
>>7934402
>zombies
That shit needs to fucking die, it's cancerous garbage
>>7934402
>Why doesn't anyone use young protagonists anymore in fantasy?
Those books have all been written out over the decades, take your pick.
There is /kinda/ Locke Lamora though
>>7934386
Sorweel is gonnause the tear of God on her
>>7934406
What is the point of fantasy if you are going to write about some grizzled forty-something man or a prepubescent girl?
Fantasy is supposed to be an escape. It's an outlet to get away from reality and go somewhere special and read about people doing fantastic things. Why in the fuck would I want to read about someone my own age or older going about their mundane lives in a fantasy environment? It doesn't make any sense.
I want a sense of wonder, dammit. I want to watch a character grow as a person and explore the world around them. I want them to go on adventures and find the magic sword and marry the elf princess or something. I don't want some writer who took a Psychology 101 class try and ram their garbage about life down my throat in a fantasy book because they couldn't hack it in regular fiction.
>>7934403
Young Assassin books are so common now it's offensive and Hobb started it. What else do you call all of her copycats if not zombies?
>>7934419
Just read Tolkien familia
You're also looking at old school shit like Worm Ouroboros and the Night Land
>>7934429
Tolkien isn't what I want, either. Frodo is a horrible protagonist. How can anyone like a reactive protagonist like him? I hated Wheel of Time for the same reason.
I suppose I'll just have to pray J.V. Jones pulls her thumb out of her ass and finishes her Sword of Shadows series. Or maybe read The Magicians for the umpteenth time.
It's so fucking depressing that I can't find anything I like anymore.
>>7934429
Most of Tolkien's characters are middle aged or elderly actually, but he gives them a journey.
Same with Worm Ouroboros, though they're probably closer to young adults at the youngest.
Either way, external age isn't really the problem but rather if somebody has the optimistic and pure spirit of a child.
>>7934438
Write it yourself?
>>7934438
>how can anyone like a reactive protagonist like him
Because he and the other hobbits are the way the reader can possibly start to comprehend what's going on in Middle Earth. He reacts to things so that the reader doesn't feel totally weird with people talking about whatever of whatever and not knowing what's going on.
>>7934445
I mentioned them for their sense of adventure and exploration, that shits turned to max.
>but rather if somebody has the optimistic and pure spirit of a child.
Oh, I have one for you. Pic related.
>>7934529
I'm actually serious, the first arcs of Naruto are pretty legit YA, it only gets stupid around Shippuden
>>7934532
I'll be honest and say I enjoyed it as a kid, but I only saw the anime. I assume the manga is much better?
>>7934533
Considerably. Better art and less filler.
/sffg/, is there a hardscifi equivalent to a beast like Ulysses? Greg Egan is the best I've got.
Do the rest of the "Sun" books by Wolfe live up the the original four? I would not mind skipping the Urth book and the rest if they fail to meet the standards of the first four.
>>7934332
Are you special needs? Why do you have to read along with a book? Either one or the other.
>>7934887
leave him alone
>>7934419
>I don't want some writer who took a Psychology 101 class try and ram their garbage about life down my throat in a fantasy book because they couldn't hack it in regular fiction.
A bakker fan I see.
/lit/, I WANT STORIES! STORIES ABOUT HUMANS AND ELVES!
>>7934899
But Bakker almost got a Ph.D. in philosophy
>>7935132
>almost
>>7935182
Seems like he decided to quit to focus on his writing and personal studies.
ROTHFUSS IS SHIT
>>7934887
I'm not doing both simultaneously.
Sometimes I want to listen sometimes I want to read
>>7935229
Preaching to the choir
>>7935243
>choir
>sffg is one person
People other than you like Sanderson fuck off.
>>7935285
SANDERSON IS ANIME
>>7934856
They absolutely do, though Long Sun has a slower buildup, and don't you dare skip Urth
>>7935285
>sffg isn't one person
>the only person who doesn't like what I like is that one person
