> Help, advice, guidance on medications and dosages
> HRT related medical experiences and research
> Availability and pricing of medications
>Rational and scientific discussion
Please take the survey and help us determine the best medications, dosages, and treatment regime to get the results we want.
▶Survey: https://1drv.ms/xs/s!AudRJceTA5C9c2G5lCV2Avq0kQ0
▶Raw survey data: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AudRJceTA5C9cyIWo6_X14AvHyM
▶Where to get meds: https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/c-88-transgender.aspx
▶ Also here: https://www.qhi.co.uk/
▶ Basic hrt info: http://www.trans-health.com/2002/hrt-self-medication/
▶TransDIY : https://www.reddit.com/r/transDIY
So i guess this means Cypro won in the other thread?
>>6462277
>Cypro won
Its not prescribed north america so of course it would be better
>>6462277
it's common knowledge that spiro is the absolute worst of the AAs
>>6462348
Probably because its only an AA by side effect.
i get headaches and irritated skin from spiro, am i going to die?
what are the side effects compared to each other?
I don't suffer from depression.
>>6462338
>It's not prescribed in the USA so of course it would be better
FTFY
You're not alone on this continent!
>>6462437
mexico? no no wait....cuba?
>>6462435
Would recommend getting on cypro if you can since you don't have depression. are you taking anything other than spyro?
>>6462435
take the survey
>https://1drv.ms/xs/s!AudRJceTA5C9c2G5lCV2Avq0kQ0
then i can look at your specs and make a recomendation
>>6462435
Skin irritation could be a sign of liver problems..did you notice any strange color patches of skin at all?
The only thing I have a problem with is the conflicting info
all the info I've looked up on Spiro says 100-200mg is the way to go, while cyproterone acetate some people say 25mg or 50mg, while some online sources say 100-150mg. If someone could explain the discrepancy or what's going on here to make me more comfortable with the switch, because I'd like to switch because it's better is, at least that's what I'm hearing.
While I'm here, I guess I'll fire off some other quick questions. I take Estradiol Valerate (Provera) atm, but I have some Estrofem because it's 17B which in theory you can take it subliminally and have better results, any anon personally confirm this? Although I have heard the term micronized thrown around as what makes it absorbable under the tongue and on the box and instructions it says it's micronized synthetic 17B.
I'm taking medroxyprogesterone the first 10 days of a month because I've heard anecdotal evidence related to progestins helping in the overall process. Should I switch to micronized progesterone or is there no point altogether, maybe every 3 days instead of first 10 days.
I'm also on finasteride 5mg daily, but I heard someone say things went into overdrive on dutasteride, I'm wondering if it's worth trying, it's also cheaper to get it with 0.4mg Tamsulosin combo 0.5 dutasteride, I can't see why it would be bad from what I've looked into but maybe another anon can comment.
>>6462652
Most of the sites i have found say 100-150 mg is the usual prescribed dose of Cypro. HOWEVER the reason to prescribe Cypro in those cases is to chemically neuter sex ofenders. In the case of a transitioning mtf a dose of 25-50 mg will completely nuke testotorone. best bet with cypro is take a low dose of 25mg and then get blood tested, then increase if needed.
And apparently Cypro fulfills the role of progesterone, so if you switch to cypro you can stop taking progesterone. Not sure about how cypro affects dht though and whether you need to take finasteride aswell
>>6462652
>Estradiol Valerate (Provera)
estradiol valerate is literally estrogen "on steroids" while estradiol hemihydrate (estrofem) is bioidentical to 17β-estradiol. of course it's weaker than provera but if you go with estrofem be sure to go with the sublingual application
>medroxyprogesterone
that's kinda bad considering this progestin is associated with increased masculinization (progestins in general tend to have paradoxical androgenic effects)
>finasteride, dutasteride
there are two enzymes that convert T into DHT. finasteride blocks only one, while duta blocks both
>>6462652
>while cyproterone acetate some people say 25mg or 50mg, while some online sources say 100-150mg.
Our prescribing physicians, by and large, know so much less than the trans community, so much later, that self med (with research) is often safer and more effective than official (without).
The sources you're looking at are ancient, from a time when drug effectiveness on trans people was assumed rather than observed.
Prescribing physicians with honest trans patients quickly update their baseline dose regulations.
Their organizations couldn't care less about our health.
>>6462701
>Not sure about how cypro affects dht
It doesn't do anything with DHT. However it does down-regulate T and DHT receptors, not to mention T production is crippled by cypro in a major way.
It would make perfect sense not to take a DHT blocker since there would be insufficient amount of T for conversion anyway.
When I switched to shots for estrogen I think my latest bottle may be bad. My boobs stopped hurting and I think may be shrinking and I stopped feeling so emotional. This is the name brand and not generic so I don't understand.
Since Sublingual is not an option to me with parents around me all the time, is it worth switching straight to injections once i'm a year in?
Currently taking 6mg Progynova and 50mg Cypro daily both orally
Also, how important are DHT blockers and progesterone? If i don't see a lot of changes yet and i'm 7 months in, will this speed up the process or increase the quality of the results somehow?
>>6462701
I think I'm gonna switch to cypro, thanks, you cleared i up. Guess I'm ditching progesterone since I've read it's not necessary and wikipedia says it's 12 times more potent than the progestin I'm taking now, just wish I didn't have 5 months of it left. I'm only a month in so I wish I didn't have 5 months left of progestins(got em because they were cheap and free shipping offset the cost)
Is cypro a lot more expensive than spiro? ;_;
Also how do I get a blood test? It should be free with insurance right?
>>6462834
>takes oral
>"can't" take sublingual
what a champ
>>6462893
but sublingual would take time to dissolve right? I can't get caught that way
>>6462764
Honestly I have had similar issues before. Perhaps you injected improperly?
Could you go through your injection technique?
Are you overweight at all?
Where are you injecting?
What length needles are you using?
Are you waiting 30-45 seconds after injecting to withdraw the needle?
Are you pushing the fluid in slowly?
Perhaps it didn't quite go into the right place and get absorbed correctly.
Also, what is the expiry on your vials, and the manufacture date? Have they been kept out of heat and light?
>>6462899
It takes a few minutes at most, if it really worries you, take them early in the morning, when you know no one will be around, in the bathroom pretending to take a shit, in the shower, late when you won't be bothered. Seriously this is a non issue.
>>6462899
your parents do mouth checks, and you think it's going to be easier to hide a bunch of syringes and needles and vials?
>>6462834
>can't hide pills
>yet you can hide the disposal container for needles
Did I miss something?
>>6462917
Yeah, guess i might have just been lazy somehow, will do so
how do i know it's dissolved? Will it hurt? What's the taste like?
>>6462924
not mouth checks lel, just i for some fucking reason thought it took a lot of time and if by chance they walked in and asked me something and my mouth was full of pills it'd be weird, the thing is, i'm moving out to University later, around september, and i probably will have privacy, so it'll be easy to just do it the best way available
>>6462909
Not her but I haven't seen any resources on proper injections, I would have no idea how to do it, how often, or any clue what I'm doing, is there anything I can read or a video I can watch?
>>6462934
i already hide pills, but i'm just scared of them walking in on me when i'm in the process, whereas orally it takes a second
>>6462207
Your survey doesn't include the most effective hormone blockers available like Lupron and other GnRH agonists.
>>6462935
It doesn't hurt and it's not supposed to taste like anything if you do it right, if you taste it, you waste it. You'll know it's dissolved when there's barely anything under there or it's all gone and there's not a small pressure under your tongue like you don't have to hold a pill down. Seriously though it's not a big deal and probably your second best option after injections, and some might contend is better (I'm not sure about that though myself)
>>6462956
okay, thanks for help, guess i wasn't really putting my all into transition, maybe it'll go better from here now
>>6462558
can skin irritation really be a sign of liver problems? im on a very high dose of spiro cause it wasn't working at the regular dosage and it causes me to have extremely dry skin
>>6462964
If nothing else, you can always take it like a suppository I think lol.
>>6462983
lol makes sense my home is like a jail so i have to hide pills up my ass
>>6462461
Canada here.
>survey doesn't take into account anti-andros that you only take every few months
How do I fill this out
>>6462909
I did mess up the injection before last. I pulled out too fast and some squirted out.
I am injuring into my hip
It is in date and never exposed to light.
My endo said I should t I ject into my thigh as my legs for some reason
>>6463042
I left it blank and put it in the list anything else section
>>6463056
>My endo said I should t I ject into my thigh as my legs for some reason
I would highly recommend that you follow that advice. I inject in my thighs and it works great. I use a one inch needle, but I'm not overweight or anything.
Look up vestus lateralis injection site.
Follow the guidelines that nursing pages and such say to locate the site, it is very easy to find. You should be able to feel the muscle at least when you tense it. This will help you feel the better spots.
A tip: work out your leg muscles or whichever muscles you will inject into, because it will make them go easier and give them greater chance of staying inside the muscle and not leaking out or being too shallow. Also helps them not be so painful, although that shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Another thing: if you can, get someone who knows how to inject IM drugs to inject you in the dorsogluteal site. I could be doing this but for some reason I'm a total little bitch when it comes to other people sticking needles into me. If it's me holding the needle I can stick them into even my testicle if I want to (it's virtually painless assuming you aren't injecting anything in them)
>>6462956
Having done both and even oral-only pills, I must say that the best thing you can do is change your administration route every couple years. Don't just stick to injections, or sublinguals, or orals, or patches. Rotate. I started on sublinguals. Tit growth stalled out, I switched to injections, it resumed with force and I got additional feminization in general. Switched to oral pills a couple years later because my injection sites were getting a bit used up, got a boost in tit growth again. Went to sublinguals again, got boosts. Went back to injections, tit growth again. My tits have gotten much better in not just size but shape. I think I have read somewhere that your body can get used to an administration route if used too long? Can anyone verify?
Give it some thought.
>>6463056
Also, how in date is it? Does it expire around December? Or are there a couple years or something like that left on it?
>>6462938
Yes. Go youtube "vastus lateralis intramuscular injection" or just intramusuclar injections in general. Google them too, read pages about them on nursing sites. If injecting yourself the best place would be the thigh, into the vastus lateralis muscle. You'll want to rotate every week. I wrote pic related a while back on another site and it has a little info, but definitely look that shit up and get comfy with the idea.
Looking back over it my guide is fairly shitty and leaves out some good info. It's also got typos and such. I would advise you wipe the site with alcohol both before and after injection. Again, this pic is -far- from complete guide, and you absolutely should not rely on it alone, under any circumstances. It's really more to give an idea of the process. I'm no doctor man, look that shit up and look it up well until you know it solidly. Don't just read one guide, don't just watch one video, go for multiple.
>>6463042
Then you put your regime in the special snowflake additional details section, and just ignore the weekly/daily questions
>>6463042
Get an orchi already and come back and fill it out.
>>6462947
Thanks :) its updated now
22 years old, only on Finasteride.
How fucked am I?
How much Cypro/Spiro am I going to have to take to get this down?
I don't look as masculine as the test might suggest so I was amazed to see it so high.
>>6463494
>medicare
I take it your Australian? Then you should be able to get on Cypro, if you get on it legit it should be covered by the pharmaceutical benefits scheme and cost bugger all.
If your going to self med then use in house pharmacy
>https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-1313-procur-50mg-cyproterone.aspx
make sure you set it to the correct curency. I would recomend starting at 25mg (half a pill) daily, then after a few weeks get your tes checked again and increase to 50mg if deeded.
>>6463494
Can't know, but like 100mg cypro would be a start, and you could go down to 50mg after half a year to see how it affects your levels.
>>6463592
I think 2 months would be a more proper time to wait for a good and stabilized test level. If you're not within female range at that point, then add more. Cypro isn't going to kick in fully in just 3 weeks.
>>6463599
Na 100mg is not a good starting dose for cypro, better to start low then raise, especially with Cypro which is known to greatly increase tumor risk at high dosages. 25mg is enough to nuke the testosterone levels of most people, even if they have very high testosterone to start with.
>>6463647
You ramp up literally every medication, obviously cypro isn't an exception.
>25mg is enough to nuke the testosterone levels of most people
No, it's definitely not. 25mg is only enough for those who have had their T bottomed for a year or so.
You start with 100mg to nuke the T and make it drop to 0, then you ease on it since you won't need as much anymore.
Yes, cypro can cause prolactinoma, so it's better to use a GnRH with levels as high as that poster.
I passed by a place today that had a blood drive going on and I considered donating because I'm finally a healthy enough weight for it. I looked up what meds might disqualify me and apparently finasteride is a no. Why is that medication so bad for blood donor recipients?
>>6463676
>ramp up literally every medication
I don't like where this is going....
>>6463676
>start with 100mg to nuke the T
See that's why people fear getting depression from going on cypro
>>6463691
You don't know who is getting the blood, if it's a pregnant woman, it can cause birth defects.
>>6463691
>willingly giving the jews your dna and blood
shig the dig
>talk about grievances with going on hrt
>people just tell me to do it
But it's not that simple! It's a life-altering medication and there may not be any going back!
>>6463888
So? If you don't do it then you might miss out on what you really want. I mean if you have doubts about if you're really trans then go ahead and skip out. But if you're anything like me you'll regret it and always wonder what could have been if you started earlier.
>>6463910
It's not that black and white.
>>6463919
It pretty much is. If you ruin your body then oh well, at least you can have a back of plan of being a femboy if that's your thing. If it's your family / social life or anything like that the longer you wait the harder it will be for them later and for you, especially for things like school and jobs. Bite the bullet and jump in it is the best advice I can give. If you decide later it isn't working then you can always hop out with minimal reprocussions (unless you're FTM, in which case you're kinda fucked)
I have questions about how to get into the medical system to get HRT. I'm in Ontario, since that probably matters. I'm on a health plan of a parent I'd rather not come out to and I suppose I have a family doctor way back home. But, I'm away at school right now. Who do I approach or phone or whatever to get this ball rolling? I don't know where to start in the least.
how can I estimate if 25mg bica is enough, without any blood exam
>>6462886
Cypro is cheaper than Spiro for me.
QHI lists it for 42 pounds which would last more than 2 months at 25mg a day whereas Spiro costs about 45 quid for the same amount of time at 200mg a day.
>>6464359
I asked my endocrinologist how can bica be tested for effectiveness without blood work. He said it's a clinical assessment, so things like reduced hair growth, fewer spontaneous erections, etc. In other words, it seems there isn't a way to measure exactly. Just play it by ear.
Is self medding viable in Canada?
I started taking 4 mg progy + 50mg cypro a while ago, been on it for around 2 months. Havent really went to get a blood test yet cause I have no idea where i'd go to see an endocrinologist where I live, what should I do?
>>6464665
You can ask a normal GP for a blood test, at least where I live
>>6464681
Yeah, uhh...pretty sure there aren't any here (gender psychs), best I could probably do is get a private doctor and ask them for a blood test?
>>6464693
I mean a normal general practitioner lol, I don't see a problem with asking
>>6462207
Hi. Actually I asked about it, but you know...
My GP prescribed me Androcur 50mg per day and Estraderm MX 100 (same as Estradot 100, but worse quality).
Everyone's telling me that I should first get rid of testosterone and then (after a month - 3 months) start with estrogen, and stimulate hormone levels to match these of female puberty. If not, I won't have any breast growth. Any opinions?
I'm 19, 174cm tall (around 5'8?) and 54kg (119 pounds) and month on HRT.
>>6464393
If you're good with 25mg cypro, you should be good with 100mg spiro.
>>6464286
GnRH acts on your brain, which tells the body to stop produce /androgenstesosterone.
Cypro Acts half as a GnRH, and half as receptor blocker for androgens/testosrone.
Spiro acts as a receptor blocker for androgen/testosterone.
>>6463607
Well, it'll take 1-2 months to work up to 100mg.
>>6463698
You never start with full dose of any medication, unless they only want you to take a minimal dose.
>>6464717
>Estraderm
was on them for a good while the sides love to peel off was awful also hated how big they are compared to estradot
>Everyone's telling me that I should first get rid of testosterone and then (after a month - 3 months) start with estrogen
Doubt it would effect breast growth a huge amount at all but generally you want to start off on a low dosage and raise it at the 3 month mark that's what my endo usually does
dose any one have experience with estradiol implants?
>>6464843
you mean the $15,000 medication that very few people get?
>>6464916
opinion please?
>>6465051
Only got my implant 3 months ago but I'm very happy with my levels they last 6-9 months, outside of the local anesthetic sting it you don't feel anything when its placed other then pushing. Only crappy part is for the first week I was pretty nauseous and my boobs are sore all the time
>>6464916
that's only the pellet. the actual operation costs thousands of dollars I thought?
>>6464719
Thanks for the lesson! :)
>>6465086
Nah, costed like $44 extra which was covered by medicare
>>6465098
I must be thinking of the testosterone blocker.
I'll have to ask my endo about this estrogen implant...
>>6465083
yr aaaaaammmmmmzing ty!
>>6465098
What state are you in?
>>6465083
wat were u on b4 and did u notice any physical changes?
>>6465098
>medicaid
no wonder
>>6465155
Hmmm I wonder if I can get it that cheap in QLD. I'm regional though and my endo doesn't really know what she's doing though, so maybe not.
>>6465208
You can the pellets compounded at a chemist shouldn't be too expensive, but if your endo has never done it before she might not be willing to do it
>>6465260
get* jesus
>self med on spiro
>2 months in go to clinic and get blood test
>doctor says my levels are in the perfect range for a woman
>10 months later
>still no problems other than muh urination
dont fall for /lgbt/'s shitty memes
Is there any particular time of day which would be best to take my HRT at (100mg spironolactone, 2mg oestradiol)?
I'm thinking that if it makes any difference, it would be better to take it at night since your growth and your testosterone levels are naturally higher when you're asleep, so it would make sense for the medication to be at its strongest then.
While it could be coincidence, the very first time I took my HRT it was at night, and my would-be breasts were very sensitive and hurt quite a lot the next day, even more so after I overlapped the dosages by switching to taking them in the morning. From every day after that they were still more sensitive than usual but stopped hurting.
>>6464515
Yes, but so far as I've seen QHI is the only game in town.
>>6464213
I'd suggest going through your school - you likely also have benefits through them unless you opted out.
Don't be scared, they're used to it. Trans kids uncomfortable coming out to their parents are a common sight in university clinics.
Be insistent that this is a big deal.
>>6466406
This, doing some research will tell you that Cypro is 4 times as strong as Spiro for the purposes of being an antiandrogen. That said, it's still usually cheaper to get Spiro if you know where to look and Cypro has some other benefits as well as side effects so it's really up to you if you think it's worth the switch. Personally I would alternate since Cypro isn't long term and is better suited people looking to get SRS.
>>6466592
I'm not sure about times. I know once after breakfast is recommended and I would do 12 hours after that / after dinner / close to bed, but other sources say to make sure to take it before 7 (assuming you get up early at 7 or 8 I suppose). I'm not sure if before sleep helps but the human body does most of the internal work at night for what it's worth I think.
How does estradiol pills compare to estradiol valerate pills? Trying to decide on whether to go with estrofem or prognova
>>6466830
Estrofem
- Fun pill circle thingy
- A bit more expensive
- Sublingual recommended
- Peaking E level
Progynova
- Boring day sequence blister
- Cheaper
- Oral route
- Potentially need a larger dose to reach target level (depends on the person)
- Stable E level
In terms of result, no real consensus, seems to be pretty equivalent. Personally I prefer the ease of just swallowing the pill.
>>6466881
I've done both and got more effects out of the oral estradiol valerate than I ever did out of estrofem. Estrofem is overpriced shit IMO.
That said I've mainly used injections this whole time and used pills during times to give my injection sites a nice long rest. I feel switching between methods has yielded better results, because each time I got boosts in tit growth.
>>6463933
>valerate
>bioidentical
no it's not my man
>>6467207
It's a prodrug for bioidentical estradiol, sir.
>>6467207
who would want valerate anyways. cypionate pls
>>6467239
>prodrug
now we're talking bro
>>6467247
>implying the body can even tell the difference
>>6467247
Since the effective life of a valerate depot is roughly 7 days, it's very good for conveniently scheduled injections, as compared to the cypionate's roughly 10 days.
>>6467266
>semantics
>>6467276
Agreed, I like the regularity of progynon depot.
Tuesday is bitch day.
Wednesday is injection day.
Thursday is slut day.
Do i have to put something here? Can i just select continue and not have to get an actual prescription from a doc? A friend supplied me at first but isnt anymore so idk what im doing really.
>>6467649
kek, why do they even have that?
>>6467881
Its InHouse, which from everywhere i've seen is the recommended DIY shop so im not sure why that is if i still require a prescription. I dont live near any informed consent people either.
>>6467649
I have always just picked email in case they ever do ask, but they haven't. Also...
>Estrogen 1mg
>Spiranolactone 25mg
Those are extremely low dosages, I'd bump them up to the 2mg and 100mg pills respectively, just to save on money, since you're paying a premium for such a low dose.
>>6467649
>>6467930
I know they are low but i'm still early on. I'm just going on what my friend suggested. Just starting the estrogen with these actually. Next time i buy if it works i will increase to the larger doses.
I'm gonna give the email option a shot then, thanks!
>>6467649
buying the 1mg estrofem is throwing money away. The 2mg pills are pretty much the same price, and the usual dose should be between 2-6mg anyway
>>6467973
you could always buy the higher dose and cut the pill in half, but i'm not sure if its ok to do that with estrofem because of its lifespan
>>6467973
Yeah just to show I'm not full of crap, I ordered a couple days ago and here it is shipping today, I never sent anything back. Btw, if you order via e-check, you might get a call from an e-check company and it's legit. Scared me the first time I did it too.
>>6467994
Also this. taking one 2 mg pill before bed or in the morning is fine, personally I started off that way and decided it was stupid so I just bumped it up to 4mg, 2mg twice a day, since it was stupid and really didn't do a whole lot and actually felt the effects after the switch.
>>6467994
Forget the estrogen, the spiro is wasting money since the recommended dose is 100-200mg a day.
>>6467649
>buying 25mg pills
goddamn you're retarded
>>6467973
>25mg of Spyro
You should really switch to 25mg of Cypro. It is much more effective than Spyro, and that amount the risk is minimal.
That low a dose of spiro will likely be pointless, and only make you piss yourself from the diuretic side effects.
>>6468107
Im getting effects on 50mg 25 morning and 25 night. That has been my dose for 8 months
>>6468732
50mg is pretty low, I'm curious what your t levels are now and when you started, have you had any blood tests?
>>6462207
Could I have your HRT advice?
Im currently on 3mg of Dexamethsone and 1mg of fludrocortisone,
Would it be safe to add 2mg of estrofem each day?
Survey name:Sleepygecko
>>6471294
uhhhhh
well, i doubt you'll find someone with a lot of knowledge of non HRT meds to give you medical advice on a laotian finger painting forum. you can check on webmd to see if they have interactions with estradiol. honestly that's shit you're probably going to need to ask a doctor. if you have a doctor who gave you that stuff for HRT, it's probably time to see a new doctor.
Should you start HRT before or after hair removal, keep getting conflicting information
>Don't start HRT - need to let the hair grow out to kill it
>Start HRT - it doesn't have much of an effect on facial hair growth anyway
>>6471294
Both of those drugs can have troublesome interactions with estradiol (and any AA you might like). Definitely talk to your doctor about this unless YOU are confident that those interactions don't represent a health risk to you.
>>6471330
Im cursed to live a hrt free lifeee ughhhhh
>>6471343
No, you're not.
Talk to your doc. Most likely, they'll change some of your doses to compensate. But they should certainly be advised, especially if you get on spiro.
>>6471358
In your opinion, on my situation how should i go about telling my doctor that i suddenly want to start taking estrofem ( and possiblely spiro), I have them so its no problem aquiring them
>>6471328
Laser is more effective if your on a anti androgen but without one it will take longer to kill hairs and new ones might pop up
So if I live in UK am I out of luck buying hrt online?
>>6471400
Not from the UK but I'm pretty sure you can order it off qhi or alldaychemist
>>6471328
Started HRT, facial hair turned blond/transparent. Which is a problem for laser. Just my experience.
>>6471400
I went to http://www.unitedpharmacies-uk.md/
I live in the UK
>>6471431
I have brown skin/black hair so I don't think that's something I need to worry about
>>6471361
>(For an unrelated condition/because I'm a tranny/to make my body more female-differentiated/whatever), I'm also taking (dose) of (drug), (method) administration.
Repeat until out of drugs.
>Would you recommend any changes to my current medication in light of this?
self medding 150mg bicalutamide rn.
I want to start injecting estradiol valerate (Progynon). Does anyone know a safe way that I can store the estradiol after opening the ampule? I only intend on taking a miniscule dose.
I thought that I might be able to order an empty vial to put it in, idk.
>>6471640
Vial are sealed sterile, once opened it is contaminated. Wouldn't recommend storing it.
Splitting or powderizing pills might be better suited.
Also that sounds like a lot of bicalutamide.
>>6471763
I guess you're probably right, I'll save the injections for another time. Also, yeah, maybe I am going a bit overboard on the bicalutamide.
could some of the proponents of cyproterone acetate explain why they think it is better than bicalutamide? It seems that nobody in this thread is taking it.
>>6468265
Since spiro has such a short half life, it's not a bad idea to split the 200mg/day to 25mg/3 hours or 50mg/6 hours if you want to maximize testosterone suppression. Of course, you could just take cypro and not worry about it.
>>6471820
Compared to bicalutamide I would see 4 advantages :
-Progesterone-like activity for supposedly better breast development
-If it is stopped (eg: order delayed) it takes times for T to come back.
-You can reduce the dose after some time.
-It can stop spontaneous erection (and even "voluntary" one) pretty well. (Benefit more subjective, of course)
>>6462207
So to those of you on injections I have five questions.
1. What size sharps container do you use?
2. About how long does each last you/how much can you stick in there?
3. Do you just put the needles in or the syringes too?
4. How much does each container cost you?
5. Who do you get your containers from and who disposes of them?
>>6471872
Does it make you infertile?
>>6471872
>You can reduce the dose after some time.
>>6471872
What if I took both?
>>6471969
Ruining your liver for no reason.
>>6471975
Well, if I was on 12.5mg cyproterone, I could lower my bical dosage.
I would be able to effectively block DHT, and lower testosterone, without taking enough cyp to get all depressed, and such.
Maybe I will be the guinea pig?
>>6471941
There is a risk of infertily. It is non-zero but difficult to quantify with no studies.
AFAIK the only regimen with data w/r/t preserving feritlity is bicalutamide without estrogen. (and it's pretty shitty data)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11260298
>>6471950
12.5mg is common.
Maybe you could go farther down, but the pill is commonly 50 mg, it is technically difficult to split more.
>>6471975
>>6472019
Not really how it works. Finasteride/dutasteride would be preferable.
Basically it's because the androgen receptor is a lock, T it's key, and bicalutamide a fake key that block the lock for the real key. And there's lots of lock, but to cause effect you only need to open a few. Cypro mostly block keys from being manufactured.
So either 12.5mg of cypro is enought to suppress production of all T, then there's no need for the bicalutamide. (no keys)
Or there's still some T being produced, in which case :
- Either there's enough bicalutamide to block all the androgen receptors, in which case there was no need for cyproterone. (cause all the lock are blocked anyway)
-Or there's not enough, then T does it's thing. (because only a few locks are needed for the effects)
Of course there's a small window where it's just right, but you won't find it.
>>6472078
Fair call.
I need some sleep.
>>6471440
I think dark skin with dark hair is actually the hardest to do for electrolysis if I'm remembering right.
>>6462207
Looking at your survey data, I am glad to see that there are people here who got some good results and started hrt older than i am now.
>>6472661
Same here, i am going to clean up the headings on the data sheet so its easier to read
Has anyone used black cohosh?
I know it's kinda off-topic, but your guys seem knowledgeable and friendly. I'm a cis male who used finasteride for hair loss but the side effects are terrible. Any tips of how to "detransition"?
>>6472825
Are you still on the med ? What side-effects do you have ?
>>6472825
Have you considered switching to Dutasteride? they are both dht inhibitors
>>6472773
I'm glad you've updated it, but I noticed that the order of the questions on the data sheet is still pretty mixed up.
>>6472947
ya that's because when i add a new question it puts it in the last column and doesn't re order them, but they all have the proper headings now so it should be easier to interpret
>>6472825
There is always minoxidil. But i hear once you start you have to keep taking it otherwise the new hair falls out.
>>6473486
Yikes. And here I thought the permanent dire consequences of finasteride people were joking.
Don't know how to help. Maybe look them up?
Starting HRT tomorrow
50mg Cypro per day should be fine?
Do I need to split it between two doses morning and night?
>>6462207
Im in texas, how do i go about getting these?
>>6473531
How do i pay for it? Ive never done echeck. Dos QHI take visa debit?
>>6473512
From what i hear its best to take the full dose at night, because t peaks when you go to sleep.
>>6473572
Great
Also read it should be taken in one dose because of it's long half life
>>6473570
As far as I know, you can't buy foreign drugs with Visa anymore.
>>6474282
Not if you're in the US, from what I've heard.
>>6471640
are you sure you needs that much? how are you getting it? just paying a lot?
>>6462207
suggestions for the survey
>group "medication #1" etc by type, that is, keep estrogen or test as one column, anti-androgens as another, anti-DHT as another
>reverse the order of medications, like "spironolactone (e.g. spiractin) instead of spiractin (spironolactone)
No answers to >>6471895?
>>6471895
Don't most people just throw them in regular trash?
or leave them on the floor of public restrooms....
>>6474953
You're not supposed to do that. I know I'm clean, but a person handling my used needles won't know that. I would rather not worry anyone like that.
>>6475330
just melt the needles down into a momento
>>6475341
I don't need some metal piece of crap I keep adding to. It sounds like some modern art piece. "The life of a tranny."
>>6475413
Maybe you could use an empty 2L mil carton to contain them. could always wrap the needles in electrical tape if you are worried.
I wouldn't recommend throwing them in regular trash because in most places that is illegal. Normally sharp disposal is handled at the local community level, so maybe contact your council, or if you know any diabetics in your area they could properly tell you.
>>6474477
It seems to be the standard dose for prostate cancer patients who aren't talking GnRH agonists.
>>6475330
Go to a local pharmacy and ask about needle diposal. Most sell a needle disposal system, that comes with a box to put them and shipping instructions that you mail off to a disposal place.
Anyone ever randomly have a day where you're horny as fuck and fap/sex multiple times, despite normally having no ability to get an erection, and no desire for fapping or sex, even if it's initiated?
What's the best site for someone in the US to use to buy cyproterone? A low price would be nice but only if it's going to do the job just as well.
>>6476590
Your local pharmacy, with a prescription from your endocrinologist.
>>6477062
>cyproterone
>in the US
Oh anon. . .
>>6477067
I meant your local pharmacy, after you migrate to the lucky country.
>>6477097
Or I could just save a shitload of effort and expense and keep doing what I've been doing - taking this shit and paying for private blood tests.
Trust me, people have heard of going the legitimate route. You don't need to tell people it exists.
>>6477111
i just don't get why anyone would want to live in the US. Especially a degenerate tranny like you or I
>>6477124
I'm not a tranny, just a degenerate.
Also there are plenty of reasons. Right now I enjoy basically the best gun rights in both the country and the world, and I get to live in this remote isolated area that I love, and have lived in my entire life.
On top of this I'm treated well here even though it's a very conservative area. People are polite and I may get lots of stares, but they never have hatred or malice in them. I'm a bit of a rarity here.
Regardless of where someone lives, it's a huge deal to uproot your life, lose contact with many friends, and move to an area you know you won't like. No point doing that over some pills I will only be needing until I'm castrated.
>>6477144
Fair enough. I am basically come from a perspective that assult rifles, grenades, etc. are bad. Each to their own, or whatever.
>>6477124
Her method is actually way simpler, faster, less expensive, and if you research it enough, often gives you better results cause you don't have to sit there dealing with the very real possibility of an incompetent doctor. Texas may be an intolerable shithole politically and socially but muh freedoms are pretty sweet.
>>6477195
Oh, his, my bad, posted too late.
>>6477191
>assault rifles
Can't be had without hefty background checks and a tax stamp. You may be confusing normal semiautomatic rifles for these though, when they look scary.
>grenades
Kek. Can't own those.
I think firearms are good because I have to live alongside big dangerous animals, and when in the city there are also dangerous people. It also feels nice knowing a mass shooting would get shut down really fast considering everybody 21+ and without felonies and such things can carry without a permit or license, and this state has the highest percent of gun ownership in the nation.
>>6477220
I don't know where you get the idea that more guns = more safety.
I have no problem with you liking guns. We made it harder for nutjobs to get their hands on firearms, and there aren't really any mass shootings to worry about.
It's an american phenomenon. Enjoy your freedom.
>>6477271
You made it harder for law abiding citizens to get firearms. Criminals have never really had difficulty because, surprise surprise, they are willing to break the law.
People carry here all the time. Zero shootings ever in my hometown.
>>6477285
But we don't have mass shootings. Also, most deaths by firearms occur by accident, or when a law abiding citizen decides to off themselves, and take their family with them.
I don't see the upside of having everyone carrying lethal weapons for "self defence".
>>6477323
There are more lives saved and crimes prevented by firearms than there are lives taken by them.
>>6477343
Yeah, the police still have guns.
I feel safer, or perhaps the governemnt has simply taken our guns, so that we cannot fight against the globalist NWO.
>>6477377
I should have been more clear. There are more lives saved and crimes prevented by civilians with firearms than there are lives taken by citizens with firearms.
So progesterone, how should I take it to best maximize growth?
Take it one week out of the month like a period, or just take it every single day
Rights?
>>6477431
alldaychemist
>>6477285
>Criminals have never really had difficulty because, surprise surprise, they are willing to break the law.
Not true, low profile criminals are nowhere as likely to have guns in Europe.
>>6477452
Alldaychemist is more expensive by a good deal. Also, it is the last source I used kek. Trying to find a better one.
Also ADC is often out of stock with cypro.
>>6477463
Murderers are not low profile criminals. That is a major criminal act.
>>6477472
if you come to australia, I will give you my cypro stocpile for free; I don't need it anymore.
>>6477488
;_; I wish I could.
>>6477271
gun crimes overall comprise a very insignificant number of deaths
So apparently my bank doesn't support echeck transfers... so no InHouse ugh. Is there any alternative like should i make an account with a real bank? Are there any online services or banks i can do this through? I'd try ADC with their wire transfer option but that seems super sketchy
So generally how long should you take just Cypro/Spiro before taking Estradiol too?
I hear 2-4 weeks
>>6477441
Every day.
>>6477488
holy baby, please be adelaide.
>>6478013
There's some truth to this as progesterone works as an anti androgen . But if you're already taking Cypriot then 10 days a month is fine.
>>6478481
There is no biological reason to cycle prog. You don't cycle your estrogen, do you?
All it's gonna give you is cramps (if you're into that).
>>6478013
Okay.
>>6478481
I'm an American on Spiro, 50Mg twice a day originally but I asked for an increased dose (despite my t being so low) so now I take 150 a day ( one 100 mg pill, and one 100mg pill broken in half)
>>6478483
I'm on injections, but aren't progesterone and estrogen essentially cycled and alternated in the cis female body?
>>6478909
Yes because cis women have uteri.
You probably don't have a uterus. You don't need to cycle anything unless you want to experience pseudo PMS.
It's only anectodal evidence but I have yet to see anybody say that cycling prog gave them any advantage compared to taking it every day.
>>6478009
Just start them both at the same time. Most people start with a low 2mg dose of Estradiol for the first month before raising it to 4 or 6mg.
How long does it usualy take for inhouse pharmacy orders to arive? I wonder because I live in Australia
>>6481142
about 5 working days for me, rarely it would take longer
>>6464515
>>6466024
Toronto and London have Consent clinics that have made getting HRT Far easier. I went to the LIHC (London Intercommunity Health Centre) On Dundas St and back in November, Did screenings in December, and the 1st of January i got my first dose of 25mg Spiro, which got bumped to 50, then 75, then finally 100mg currently. Around March they started me on Estrace 1mg, now it is 2mg. So far they've been very nice and helpful in getting me on the right track, I really don't care if i end up a hun. It was just nice to make my life easy. Also Spiro AND Estrace can be covered by any drug plan Ontario has with a special letter the clinic sends.
It is ALSO worth noting that I was able to sign up for Ontario coverage for GRS with a letter from my doctor. So far, I've paid a grand total of $200 before i got full coverage, and that was for Estrace alone.
Whats a good dose to start Cypro on? I hear some people start on 25mg and it nukes their testotorone completely. I'm thinking it makes sense to start at 25-50mg and then raise the dose if needed, but some people say to start high at like 100mg and then reduce after it reduces t. I am confused ?_?
>>6482613
25 mg then check after 3 months (blood test). Go up to 50 if too much T, re-check after 3 months.
If 25mg works, don't do anything.
You may try to reduce to 12.5 mg after 6 months or more of HRT, and re-check 3 and 6 months after the change. Then either stay at 12.5 or go back to 25 if it's not possible for you.
Almost nobody needs 100.
How do I know if I'm getting changes in my hip bones?
I'm 20 years old and about 7 months on HRT and I've been feeling this light pressure inside my pelvis, I don't remember if this what bone growth was like as a teen. It feels kinda uncomfortable at times when I sit, and shifting around or standing up doesn't really affect it, but I'm not sure if this is just wishful thinking on my part
>>6484525
If you're 20 your bones will have probably already fused by now. Unless you see actual evidence to the contrary it's just in your head.
>>6484532
Well my hips have gotten measurably bigger since I started (almost 2"), and I haven't really gained weight. It doesn't seem like there's more fat there.
>>6484538
The fusion of the hip bones happens right at the end of puberty which could be as late as 24 for some people. You could have gained more fat but had a decrease in muscle from the t blockers. Also you are likely to see redistribution of fat to the hip/but area.
So i have a question about hormones.
Will they make you like men more? or is it just the transition and becoming feminine that makes a tyranny like men more?
>>6489803
>*tranny
kek
>>6489803
I went through the change and I still have no idea, lol. Doesn't really matter, the answer is "maybe".
What do you guys think of what is stated in this wiki article: https://madgenderscience.miraheze.org/wiki/Non-binary_hormone_therapy_guide
Does anyone have an actual citation on if DES passes through the blood-brain barrier of adults? The article does not give a citation, and my searches mostly turn up results on it passing through the blood-brain barrier of fetuses, where it apparently can cause severe birth defects. Also, it would seem that in humans, bicalutamide does pass through the blood-brain barrier. However, it would seem that ODM-201 does not ( http://www.nature.com/articles/srep12007 ), although the abstract of the article I read made it seem that they only has data from animals, later in the article it stated that the same results were found in humans. However, it would appear to also have a mechanism of action for being an antiandrogen other than usual antagonism, which brings me to my nest concern. There exists SARMs, such as enobosarm, which act as an androgen receptor agonist, but only bind at muscle and bone tissue. It should be possible to use a high enough dosage of a SARM to overcome the effects of an AA at the muscle and bone cells and no where else, allowing for most of the effects of HRT without muscle lost. However, I might be wrong, and the additional mechanism of action of ODM-201 might block even that. In any case, would combining an AA and an estrogen that does not pass through the blood-brain barrier and using a SARM be a remotely good idea, once these drugs finish their testing to be approved for some purposes? Has anyone done even part of this plan. This should hypothetically allow for most of the feminizing effects of HRT without neurological/psychological or muscle effects.
Is progesterone worth it? Does it help with breast growth and overall feminization?
I'm considering adding it to my regimen. Right now it's:
>200mg spironolactone daily
>8mg oral estradiol daily
>1mg finasteride daily
>>6490420
While taking prog, many people experience breast swelling and rounding. Note the "while". It also has a role in causing branching of the milk ducts. General consensus is to wait a year or two before starting it, even though people on cypro are basically on it from day 1.
>>6490434
Are there any negative side effects that outweigh the benefits? I've heard that it can increase blood clot and cancer risk even more.
>>6490389
Just looking at the structure, DES is highly lipophilic, it can pass membranes with no problem. So unless there's a specific source saying that's it's actively excreted, I would say it passes through.
ODM-201 displaces the androgen in binding/competition study (figure 1) which means it binds to the main receptor site, which means whatever it's particulars it will behave as a standard antagonist for this question.
As for combining a an antagonist with a high dose of selective agonist, it's generally a bad idea because of two facts: 1/"selective" drugs are not totally specific, when you put enough of it, it will also activate the other receptor subtype you don't want to activate. 2/ the affinity of the antagonist for the receptor may depend on the receptor subtype.
So it becomes a number game: it hinges on whether the required concentration of agonist to displace the antagonist from the target receptor, is also not enough to allow the agonist to bind to the non-targeted receptor (given the antagonist has lower affinity or concentration in the non-targeted tissue)
The numerical data to determine if it works will most probably either be inexistent (the specific affinities are not relevant for the "legitimate" use if the drug), not released (pre-clinical data not usually released) or in rats. Also it may be that the dose of agonist is so high as to cause non-specific Side-effects, like liver failure.
All in all, it's sign of a moronic treatment scheme (what you want is selective antagonism, or/and an agonist with a different selectivity), but you're not the one developing the drugs, so heh...
>>6489803
As a tranny who realized they were bi before HRT thanks to all the posts about orientation change by former transbians, I think it's mostly two factors: higher comfort with the idea of dating a man (no longer wrapped up in "b-but that's gay") and getting offers from men which previously wouldn't happen. The hormones might have some effect, but I don't think it's major.
Does anyone here use Buserelin instead of traditional AA? Maybe experiences with both?
My endo prescribed me Superfact nasal spray and he says it's better because it changes "the whole body chemistry" or some other hon-tier bullshit like that
>>6489803
Hormones are going to have effects on your emotions. There's no evidence they will specifically make you more attracted to men, though the idea of being on hormones or a placebo effect may do so.
how many of you mtfs feel better on hormones/AAs? I am pretty depressed and fairly sure it's because I am a filthy trans (and my therapist agrees), so in theory it should make me feel better even if it doesn't make me look exactly female. right?
however I keep hearing stories about trans people who feel WORSE after getting on hrt and that makes me want to die. do you personally feel better or worse since starting HRT? I can't imagine trying to socially transition while more depresssed than I am now. I'd kill myself for sure
>>6492058
I feel pretty much the same.
I fixed my depression beforehand with Venlafaxine and psychedelics.
>>6492092
thanks. just realised there was a huge survey in OP which may answer my question further
>>6492058
I had some moments early where the contrast between the few progresses I had, versus my masculine features, was pretty jarring. An overwhelming feeling that I was doomed to never be confortable, never pass, suicide nao, blah blah... (No based in reason, just freaking out.)
But I got over the hunch after the 6 months mark, and overall i'm pumped as fuck, I have never been so happy, and productive as on HRT. It's kinda scary, I thought it would stop after the novelty wore off, but living really seems to be this good.
Sounds like i'm shilling, but that's just my personal experience. YMMV.
(I thought I wasn't very depressed before, maybe it's just that I was used to the constant grinding, I am also not in a bad situation, trans problems aside, so idk)
>>6492058
I'd imagine that just the sudden change in hormones could cause depression, at least temporarily. Not having high enough sex hormone levels can also cause depression, so if your antiandrogen is strong enough but you oestrogen isn't then it could have that result. Emotional effects are going to be inconsistent between people.
I've been on HRT for 2 weeks. I've felt significantly less anxious; when I have periods of more intense anxiety it's not as bad as it was before, and the semi-persistent low-level anxiety is significantly less severe and less frequent. For the first few hours after taking them I was really happy (which was almost entirely from the knowledge of it rather than any actual effects), and I've been happier in general since. I'm generally more prone to mood swings. The first few days after taking them I was noticeably hornier than usual, but I can't distinguish the effects of the hormones from the knowledge of being on them in conjunction with AGP (mine is relatively minor) and with the effect having extremely sensitive and aching nipples was having. My sex drive has reduced considerably (below pre-HRT levels) since then. Depression is still there but generally better, and I have more leverage to give myself hope and reassurance to deal with it.
I doubt I'll be able to pass, but there are some moments where my perception changes and I have hope about it. Regardless, the knowledge that I'm not going to get more masculine and that I don't have male testosterone levels fucking with my mind is hugely comforting. It adds yet more evidence which can attempt to reassure my irrational doubts that I'm not really trans.
I feel bad and good about the idea of developing feminine features despite the incongruity of them with my masculine body, since I still want those features and it's reassuring and validating that they're developing, but they also highlight my masculinity and how I'm not a "real woman" and so on.
>>6478042
Brisbane
>>6492273
>update your data
Just take the survey again with the same usename when you want to update.
Is this a stupid idea? Self med Spiro instead of cypro because the side effects will make it easier to tell that it's working at all.
>>6494343
KEK that is fucking stupid kid. don't take spiro because it makes you piss yourself if it is working. Only take spiro if you cant get Cypro.
Most trannys here feel the change in sex drive after only a few weeks on Cypro. It should also reduce your spontaneous erections fairly rapidly. If you can't get blood tests, use these as signs of it working.
>>6494343
As someone who switched from spiro to cypro, I definitely noticed the change, in that it's actually working really well as an antiandrogen and I don't have all these extremely shitty side effects. I'm "xxdd" on the survey chart. Did a long time with spiro, and I've had a surprising amount of progress since switching to cypro. I can feel it killing my balls, even as I type this I'm getting some of the random ball pains that happen on this stuff, but it feels really good because I know that's my balls getting rekt. That's a much better feeling sign that it's working than the shitty side effects of spiro.
>>6494343
Contrary to the other two anons here I'm only taking 100mg Spiro and my T levels sit at 10. Find what works for you, all of our bodies are different.
Memes are dumb okay?
>>6494533
I'm not saying spiro doesn't work, I'm just saying it has shitty side effects and that it'd be pointless to "feel it working" through the side effects, when you'd only note that through the signs of low test.
Cypro would be the safer bet in that it has a better track record in regards to working (I see nobody complaining about it not lowering their t levels), and it also has less shitty feeling side effects. There is no point in going with spiro over cypro just so you can feel the shitty sides.
>>6494544
The Hepatotoxicity of Cypro is the major risk and it's not something to be overlooked anon. There is no safer bet.
>>6494570
With regular blood testing to monitor that, and a plan to get an orchi relatively soon anyway, at a dose of 50mg, it's not much of an issue. Anyone taking AAs should have the ultimate goal of removing their balls, it's not good to be taking any of these meds if you can avoid it.
>>6494620
ball removal is expensive.
>>6494639
Depends on your individual options, really. It should be done eventually, regardless. If one has to save up, it is at least relatively inexpensive compared to other procedures. Think like $5000, maybe a bit less depending on your location. I would call that obtainable by anyone with a job and enough determination.
>>6494639
Can we discuss DIY orchi in this thread ? :^)
>>6494751
You -really- should reconsider doing such things, especially if you are trans, seeing as there are often many avenues for trans people to get their balls removed or at least stay on antiandrogens. If you absolutely are going to do it and nothing will stop you then it would be best to go into it very well informed and not from something just a 4chan thread could possibly provide you.
I can get you more info on self-castration but I'd rather not share it with everyone here just in case someone goes and does something really stupid or rushes into things without proper preparation. Would you be interested in learning more? There is no way to do it without a good deal of risk and danger, including risk of death.
>>6494751
It wouldn't be a long discussion.
>want cut balls off
>try
>fail
>suggest injecting alcohol or salts
>try
>calcified testicles
>go DR
>you got cancer son
>DR cut balls off
The only exception is if they work out you did it to yourself and they might section you before cutting them off because of risk of infection.
TL;DR if your trans and want an orchi go down the official route. If you're just a castration fetishist your only real option is to damage them irreparably and have a DR recommend removal.
>>6494501
>it feels really good because I know that's my balls getting rekt
Reading this gets me very exited to start cypro.
What do I take if I want to be a femboy?
