Fuck it, I seriously gotta ask how does anyone think transgenderism (or whatever you want to call it) is not a mental illness that needs to be corrected?
You don't -feel- like any gender, you're born with a dick or a vagina (unless you're literally a mutant in which case its usually corrected to one or the other at birth).
The idea of -being- a gender isn't a thing, you're male or female and that is all. Anything else is just a giant misunderstanding of traditional gender roles and thinking those traits define you as a gender.
I'm not even trolling here, I've been seeing this issue way too much for my tastes in my 'politically correct' workplace and I feel the need to verify how it is you actually think its not a mental illness. Up until not too long ago it was considered a mental illness by psychologists until they gave into peer pressure.
>>5317533
Mental illness? Yes. Are people suffering from it? Yes. I tend to think that suicide is so prevalent in this demographic because they cannot be who they want to be and who they feel like. They need help and treatment. Given the suicide records the treatment is not that great. It only seems to work if you can pass well.
What I hate about the debate today with Trans issues is that people ascribe morality to it when there is not any. I am not sure what the uproar is all about though. It kind of feels shoved down my throat and I could care less about it.
It's a mental illness with transition as the only currently known effective treatment. How many times are we going to have this thread?
>>5317533
it's a mental illness that's "cured" by reinforcing its delusions.
it would be like if we treated pedophilia by giving each pedophile a room full of children.
>>5317625
That's harmful to the children. Who is transitioning harming?
>>5317612
>transition as the only currently known effective treatment.
except that there's no data whatsoever to suggest this, it's just a chaser fantasy
this whole trans thing becomes a lot less mysterious when you realize that there is an entire group of people out there preying on vulnerable young men and pressuring them to transition.
>>5317628
>except that there's no data whatsoever to suggest this
That's wrong though? I need to stop arguing in these threads
>>5317640
>That's wrong though?
What are you even trying to say here?
>>5317533
There's a difference between what you're born with anatomically, and what you want or are comfortable with in terms of your body, gender roles & expression, etc. Like you can be born with a penis and XY chromosomes, but still have a feminine personality and/or want to have a body that looks good in a dress. Not everyone is a uniformly stereotypical male or female, some degree of gender variance is natural, and for some people its extreme enough to want to modify their body to be more like the opposite sex and/or even live full time as the opposite sex.
And there is evidence supporting the idea of a distinct gender identity within the brain, which doesn't always match one's anatomical or chromosomal sex. However, this particular area of the brain is changeable in early development, but later on becomes very resistant to change, so there doesn't appear to be an practical cure.
>>5317625
Transitioning doesn't really harm anyone, whereas acting on pedophilia most certainly does. And remember, pedophilia isn't itself really a delusion, the only fundamental distinction between it and any other orientation is that the sexual attraction is directed towards a group inherently unable to give meaningful consent.
>>5317628
>that there is an entire group of people out there preying on vulnerable young men and pressuring them to transition.
Now this is something that there actually is no data to support.
gender is the mental illness that needs to be corrected
Why even argue about it? Why should people waste their time & money trying to fix the unstable, idea-orientated, view of such young adults being projected upon a communistic media.
>>5317676
>>>/tumblr/
>>5317676
Go away
>>5317625
>it would be like if we treated pedophilia by giving each pedophile a room full of children.
Not even remotely. They're not comparable in that way at all.
A trans persons mentality is focussed on themselve's, a paedophile's is on someone else.
Your logic is faulty.
>>5317676
Found the TERF!
o m g. ok, im a t. drop me pls. isis style. i get it, it's over, but when were we even talking?
>>5317673
There's a whole entire industry around it, retard. Billions of dollars.
>>5317681
>Why even argue about it?
Because they're using our tax money for their bullshit. Why not subsidize my fucking problems if they get their treatment? I should be able to receive bales of weed and barrels of whiskey on the tax dole if mentally ill people get to receive hundred thousand dollar "treatments" on the house. Literally no difference between the two. Neither one is a necessity and they are both based on making the receiver of the subsidy happy. Why do they get tax payed happiness if I don't get mine? Cause taxes aren't supposed to work that way. It's just an other way to justify state run healthcare. Government don't give a fuck about the trannies.
>>5318985
It's negligible compared to other things in the same industry. There's no one "pressuring people to transition". It's just not worth the effort. You could make a much stronger case for people pressuring people to take pain relievers, vitamin supplements, get cosmetic surgery, etc.
When was the last time you saw transgender HRT advertised on TV? No one's pressuring anyone into it. It's simply the primary treatment for a specific medical condition.
>>5319010
If you have an actual medical condition treated by weed and whiskey, then that would make sense. Gender dysphoria doesn't cease to exist just because of your feels.
>>5319010
Don't worry, we'll be paying for your healthcare when you drink yourself into liver failure.
>>5317533
If you're trutrans (sorry, I don't know if there's a non-tumblr version of the word) then you do believe that dysphoria is a mental illness. It's literally dissociating from your genitals. There's other types of dysphoria/dysmorphia that are unrelated to genitals as well.
>>5319053
>Gender dysphoria
>actual medical condition
It is literally only a "muh feels" disease. It's fake. It's doing horribly costly and unnecessary surgery to treat depression.
>>5319087
No, you won't actually. I pay for treatment when I need it. I'm not a nigger who relies on the state to survive. Also there's a huge difference between liver failure and your "I wanna be a girl" disease. One is real the other is imaginary. Sure liver failure is self inflicted, which is why I believe it's immoral to make others pay for it, but at least it's real.
>>5317589
>It only seems to work if you can pass well.
Oh look, it's this myth again.
You heard it first here, guys and girls - trans people suicide because they can't be a qt anime girl, not because they can't pay for surgery, they can't hold jobs, their family hates them, they suffer violence, etc etc.
>>5319168
The mentally is usually have trouble holding jobs and having relationships with other people. Nothing changes after the surgery. You're still mentally ill. What is the solution then? More surgery? More hormones? Rope is cheaper and way less annoying to those around you. Suicide is probably the best thing you can do for your family if you insist on continuing to be a problem for them. Or you could just grow up and realize that cutting your cock off isn't going to solve shit.
>>5319153
You say gender dysphoria is a "muh feels" disease, yet you have offered no evidence other than "muh feels" to support your claim that it doesn't exist.
>>5319199
You're asking me to prove a negative? That's retarded. Prove that the "disease" does exist. No one has ever died from wanting to be something else. You are in no physical pain. The very definition of disease doesn't apply to sitting around being sad that you weren't born as the opposite sex. Being sad is the only effect of this so called "disease". So yeah, it's a muh feels disease.
>>5319197
>Nothing changes after the surgery
Somehow you got the idea that this is a requirement.
>The mentally is usually have trouble holding jobs and having relationships with other people.
Somehow you got the idea that it's their fault for other people's transphobia (like yours)
>More hormones?
Somehow you brought hormones into this.
Please refer to picture.
Not even in a decent english.
>>5319216
>You're asking me to prove a negative? That's retarded.
No, it's not. You made a claim, you have to prove it. Doesn't matter whether it's a negative or not.
>Prove that the "disease" does exist.
It's widely documented, in everything from Wikipedia, to the DSM, to academic articles. The vast majority of doctors acknowledge its existence, do you really think you know better than all of them? Even Dr. Paul McHugh, who misrepresented studies in an attempt to ban the most effective treatment for gender dysphoria, acknowledged that it was inded a condition that exists.
>No one has ever died from wanting to be something else.
So? Most conditions that manifest primarily with psychological symptoms aren't immediately fatal either. But I don't hear you saying those aren't real.
>>5319240
>>5319255
The mentally ill should be pitied. It's Reagan's fault for defunding the psychiatric hospitals really.
Have fun swinging from ropes in a few years time. Statistically the both of you will end up that way. Until then try not to waste too much of your parents' money fighting imaginary disease.
Shit didn't even notice my thread got replies.
>transition is the treatment
No this is reinforcing a delusion. The issue is people think they're feeling something they're not. Behavior differences between male and females are a side effect of hormones. Your preferences don't make you male or female, preferences are at heart gender neutral.
>doesn't harm anyone
How about all those kids bothered because some stupid faggot decided he was a girl now so he showers with the girls?
How about the schools that need to spend thousands of dollars to enforce a dellusion?
You don't reinforce delusions, you give them therapy to realize why they aren't what they think they are and face reality.
I mean homosexuality I understand, liking traditionally woman roles or clothing and vice versa also make sense. But none of these make you a different thing than you are. You don't feel like anything just yourself.
>>5319286
>Have fun swinging from ropes in a few years time. Statistically the both of you will end up that way.
Uh, no. The transgender suicide ATTEMPT rate (without treatment, IIRC) is 40%. As in, less than 50%. And the number who actually commit suicide is much less than that. And both the attempt and actual suicide rate are reduced with proper treatment. Which means, even in a worst case scenario, "statistically the both of you will end up that way" is blatantly false. In fact, even if we assume that neither of us receive treatment (and that we're both trans), the chance of both of us even attempting suicide is only 16%. Hardly a statistical guarantee.
Transsexuals have the opposite sex's brain structure
>>5319303
Please tell me. How do you feel like you're female or male?
In detail if you would.
>>5319320
>if you would
>tipping autist.gif
>>5319293
Therapy just DOESN'T WORK. I mean obviously for some things it does, I'm not trying to say therapy is ineffective for everything, but for gender dysphoria it simply doesn't work. It's not a cognitive delusion. Transition is simply what works, based on things like quality of life and mental health. And the behavior differences are not caused entirely by hormones; many trans people show cross-sex behavior and identification before hormone treatment.
>How about all those kids bothered because some stupid faggot decided he was a girl now so he showers with the girls?
That's not the only situation where kids can be "bothered". I mean, if I'm "bothered" by someone of the same sex using the shower with me, can I order the school to have him removed?
>How about the schools that need to spend thousands of dollars to enforce a dellusion?
Since when do schools fund transition treatments?
>You don't reinforce delusions, you give them therapy to realize why they aren't what they think they are and face reality.
It's not a delusion. They know very well what they are physically, otherwise they wouldn't seek transition. The issue is that they desire to live as the opposite sex. And therapy can't fix that. The only way to fix that would be to completely replace their brain.
>>5319325
>When was the last time you cracked open a skull and identified "brain structures"?
It's not 1885 anymore, you know. We don't need to physically open up people's heads to study their brains.
>>5319325
Ever heard of a
>brain scan
Man, you're something
>hurrdur when was da last Timez we looked ats a brain
>>5319320
Not that anon, but it's pretty fucking simple.
If you're trans you feel like you should be of the opposite sex, and desires to have the sex characteristics of the oppoiste sex. That's how you feel like a sex, if you want the sex characteristics of that sex.
Every time you want to look masculine, you're expressing how male you feel.
>>5319340
So all scientific developments since the 19th century are part of the gay agenda?
>>5319332
None of what you say is backed by any logic
>but other people are bother by the same sex!
It's not the same. If you don't see this you're a flaming fucking idiot.
>they don't fund treatment
They have to fund the kids protection, the isolated bathrooms and showers and gym rooms because of the above situation.
>therapy doesn't work
Transitioning isn't a fix, it's not more a fix than making a schizophrenic the king of england. The entire idea of being a gender is a misconception of gender roles and how your interests play a part in that. Liking sewing or cooking doesn't make you a girl, having a vagina makes you a girl.
>>5319340
>How gays control psychology
>Psycholgy
>Science
Psychology isn't science, it's psuedo-science.
>>5319340
Don't you have a planned parenthood to shoot up?
>>5319325
>He brings up legitimate points
In the last century maybe
>>5319343
>your trans because you want something someone else has
How the hell is this acceptable? Do you realize how stupid this sounds and is basically just the same as r9k tier "but women have it so nice I wish I could be a woman".
>>5319351
>It's not the same. If you don't see this you're a flaming fucking idiot.
Why? Is being troubled by trans people somehow more extreme or valid than being bothered by cis people?
>Transitioning isn't a fix, it's not more a fix than making a schizophrenic the king of england. The entire idea of being a gender is a misconception of gender roles and how your interests play a part in that. Liking sewing or cooking doesn't make you a girl, having a vagina makes you a girl.
Okay, what if your interests include wearing female clothes and living full time as a woman? Is that a valid expression of your interests?
>>5319361
>Giving people medicine because they want to be like others are, even though they aren't that way naturally
Do you realize how fucking stupid you are?
>>5319343
>you feel
>feel
>feel
It's a muh feels "disease".
>>5319354
That's why I said "not science". I only wrote five words in that post. At least bother to read them.
>>5319355
That was a "woman" if you don't remember. Also nice ad hominem. Real cute.
>>5319357
Tranny defense force is in full force today, huh?
>>5319361
It's not really about "grass is greener". It's more like looking in the mirror and being disgusted by your facial and body hair and lack of boobs, etc.
>>5319361
It sounds stupid to you, because the way you interpret it is stupid
>>5319357
Your entire argument consists of a vague delusion that has no basis in reality and is in fact a delusion. Surgery will not fix anything in the long run. If someone gets surgery then whatever, but fundamentally nothing has changed and it never will. This is a mental disorder than people are supporting when we should be giving them therapeutic help.
>>5319370
Yeah, some clearly staunch conservative guy is a tranny cause Ted Cruz says so.
>>5319372
Read up on anorexia yet? Sound familiar?
>>5319370
>Tranny defense force is in full force today, huh?
/lgbt/ - Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, & Transgender
>>5319370
>It's a muh feels "disease".
As is anything with primarily psychological symptoms, by your reasoning.
>That was a "woman" if you don't remember. Also nice ad hominem. Real cute.
They were only a "woman" in what it said on their voting record, most likely a clerical error. They used a male name, and made no effort to present as female. It's totally inconsistent with the theory that they're a trans woman. Either they're a FtM, or it's a simple clerical error.
>>5319373
>I don't agree with your opinion so you must be stupid
Transsexual logic
>>5319375
Therapeutic help really can't do anything. We already give them therapy as part of transition, replacing the transition with more therapy won't do any more good. It's been tried in the past and didn't work.
>>5319386
Just because two condition have vaguely similar symptoms does not mean that the underlying causes (and therefore the appropriate treatments) are similar.
>>5319370
You spend too much time on the Internet. Are you the crazy uncle at thanksgiving? I can't imagine you having normal conversations with people, you sound unhinged that's why you're getting no real arguments and replies
>>5319369
Except they want something that will never be real and will bother other people.
Whether you like it or not 12 y/o girls will be bothered having a male peer in their locker room like some activists want. This should not be allowed because the male feels he is female despite anatomy and logic dictating otherwise.
>>5319386
No, they're not similar, they're very different.
>>5319388
It's not only psychological symptoms.
If you have a large tumor growing in your stomach, and you want it removed, then you simply "feel" like you want to have the body of others, that doesn't have a huge growing tumor.
Thus, according to mr retard, it's absurd to try to treat it, because it's just about "muh feels".
It literally goes for every single medical procedure.
>>5319395
Your opinion is not stupid, have trouble with reading comprehension?
Your interpretation of "transsexuals want to be the opposite sex" is incorrect transsexuals do not want to be the opposite sex. Their brain structure physically is the opposite sex
>>5319399
Being "bothered" by something doesn't mean you can interfere with other people's rights. That's a literal "muh feels"argument.
>>5319399
Most things are uncurable, so according to you, it's stupid to seek treatment for it, because you can never fix it anyway.
Your stupidity is just.... regrettable.
>>5319396
>just because they're the same doesn't mean they're the same
Therapy only helps when you want it to help. And because of people support trans they don't feel the need for change despite being delusional.
While anorexia is more deadly thus forcing change, the way your mental instability takes form is very similar.
>>5319413
Therapy has been tried in the past, it simply doesn't work. Your reasoning is the same used in pseudoscience. It's like saying "Prayer can fix broken bones and regrow lost limbs IF ONLY YOU WOULD BELIEVE IN IT."
>>5319413
Therapy on trans people has never worked, if you were trans, you'd be spending the rest of your life in a psych ward (unless you lied about it, and kept everything secret).
Also, they're completely different things.
If we're talking about dysmorphic anorexics, they have a deluded self-perspective, what they see isn't the same as what is in reality.
Transsexuals can see what is in reality, and feel bad about it, it's the opposite of BDD and dysmorphic anorexia.
What are transphobes trying to accomplish here? Just curious.
>>5319399
Why should I care about 12 year old girls "feeeeeeelz"
Most people don't want to be in locker rooms with gays but we let them in anyway
The more these transsexuals argue their case the more I believe they suffer from a mental disease and that their proposed solution to it is insane. I really was hoping to be convinced that they were at least somewhat reasonable too. I hoped that I'd leave this conversation realizing that they have a few valid points, but there's nothing of the sort.
>>5319432
>There is treatment
Do you not fucking know what "curable" means? Treatment doesn't cure most medical disorders, they only either keep the person alive, or alleviates some of the symptoms.
>>5319425
Therapy has worked in the past.
Therapy usually fails because people don't want to change. They're delusional and think it's reality and will fight for that delusion.
This kills anorexia victims though. Trans people just kill themselves so when it fails for anorexia victims they don't talk about it, trannies do though.
>>5319432
>Except you're bothering many more non crazy people because 1 person is delusional.
As was mentioned before, it's not a delusion. Unlike you, transgender people don't believe blatant falsehoods.
>There is treatment, cutting up your body and pretending you delusion is reality is not the treatment.
>Supporting the illness is not how you cure it.
The treatment you describe (unless you're referring to suicide) is not possible with current technology.
>>5319440
>www.google.com
>>5319436
Typical liberal argumentative tactics it seems. Just deny and attack those that disagree with them.
I hate conservatives so much, but the brainwashing that liberals go through is just the worst. They sound like cult members.
>>5319443
Therapy has never worked, it was because it never worked that they decided to try to have the patients transition instead.
>>5319436
They're getting out their angst of being a social pariah, and never getting to have friends, or loved ones, and will forever be trapped in their ugly, obese, and unlovable, body.
Sooner or later, they'll kill themselves.
>>5319440
Unfortunately, the "proposed solution" seems to be the only thing that works that is actually possible with current technology.
>>5319443
Has therapy worked ON GENDER DYSPHORIA in the past? And consistently (i.e. don't give me that study with a sample size of 1 person with "questionable" dysphoria).
>>5319440
Autism is a disease too
>>5319436
I'm trying to pull some semblance of logic here. As far as I can tell there is none.
All you trannies are saying is we should support your delusions because you think that's the cure, despite it clearly not being the case.
I'm pretty open minded if you can persuade me with logic. There is no logic here though. It's a group of sick people crying for us to support their sickness instead of looking for better ways to change or accept their illness.
>>5319451
>Putting up science and basing arguments on logical and rationality is somehow cultish brainwashing
You're retarded, and I don't think many here are liberals. Liberalism isn't even good for trans people, since it's about removing stuff like health care and everything that the government provides.
>>5319457
>I'm pretty open minded
No, you're not.
If you were open minded you'd just agree with it on a simple explanation, and the fact that it's recognized by medical professionals to be that way.
You're thicker than anything before observed.
>>5319457
Do you have 0 empathy? You don't care about us living miserable lives as our birth gender despite trying our best to be happy? I'm just trying to make this short life one I can be glad I lived that's all.
>>5319457
The "logic" is that transition is what works the best, generally speaking. There are some people with mild dysphoria that are able to cope with it by just doing therapy and drugs, but for most it simply doesn't work. And yes, transition doesn't work for everyone, but there isn't really anything that works better. I don't think we're all opposed to an alternative treatment, but it's silly of people to argue that we should ban transitioning without showing evidence that there is indeed a better option. Logic means treating medical conditions with what actually works. Transition may not be perfect, but there's no logic in abandoning it in favor of something inferior. Only a superior treatment, if found, would justify abandoning transition.
>>5319457
Oh my god the way you type.
>tfw no gf
Threads slow tonight? The big wiz down? You type like a sad obese pseudo intellectual, I really feel bad for you, what are you doing here at almost 1 am on a workday? Shouldn't you get to sleep before work or school tomorrow?
>>5319467
"trolls" display sociopathic behavior, so no, he can most likely not feel any empathy, thus not able to understand people.
>>5319457
>I'm trying to pull some semblance of logic here. As far as I can tell there is none.
So much this. Only ad hominem attacks and highly triggered mentally diseased people.
I have the same problem with these people as I do with religious people. I really don't care what you want to do to/with yourself as long as you can admit when you're basing it off of bullshit. If you can at least admit you're full of shit I can have respect for you. But the transsexuals and religious alike are absolutely certain that their faerie tale beliefs are true and absolute. Then they wonder why people think they're crazy.
>>5319479
That's because we have this thread everyday, and the only people here who are willing to argue your same tired points, are the easily offended trannies
>>5319463
>You're not open minded unless you agree with me
I'm looks for a persuasive argument beyond "but I'm delusional so I need you to make me like my delusion!"
For years it was considered a mental disorder, then the pseudoscience that is psychology changed it because of peer pressure.
I'm looking for legitimate reasoning which Noone has provided. Until I see actually facts and logic I cannot see any of you as anything but pitiful and delusional mentally ill patients. And the more you scream and cry about how the "treatments don't work" and that giving you what you want is the only way to go, the more I see you as less.
I'm open minded because I am willing to see your side given you give me valid reasoning. You clearly are not.
>>5319479
If science disproves any physical link in the brain then okay it's all based on my feels. I would still do whatever resulted in me being a happier person though (without negatively affecting other people too much).
>>5319479
When you're against science, you can assume that you're the one projecting your feels.
It's really the opposite.
You should admit that you don't like trans people because of your "feels", and other bullshit, then nobody will have to pay you any attention.
>>5319487
The legitimate reasoning is that transitioning is the current treatment that works the best. I don't see why that's so hard to understand. It seems like simple logic: when treating a medical condition, you look at the available options, and choose the one that works the best for the given circumstances.
>>5319457
>sickness
The only sick ones here are the sociopaths such as you. No offense.
>>5319494
b-but trannies are gross
>>5319487
It's based on science, there are numerous studies with hard evidence that there's neurological basis for transsexualism.
If you're open minded you look at the results and form your conclusion based on what it says.
You don't even look at the research, and you go off on your feels, and delusions, to say that trans people are somehow mentally ill, despite what the medical community says.
>>5319487
Transsexuals are not delusional.
There's a certain process in the womb that 'washes' fetuses with sex hormones. The first wash gives physical sex to the body, determining whether the fetus is male or female, the second wash happenens later in pregnancy to the brain which determines the 'sex' of the fetuses brain, these two things happen independently which causes transsexualism.
There are thousands of sources and articles on google if you were willing to look for them instead of coming here
>>5319473
You know, 4chan has a high population of engineers and scientists. I'm speaking as I would to any of my peers in a formal setting because I am actually trying to understand a mental illness I cannot make sense of on my own. And quite frankly I've been extremely disappointed in all conversations which I've had with the pro tranny groups.
Instead of immediately jumping to "muh r9k virgins" it'd serve you well to realize some people do genuinely want to understand.
People like you however are why Noone in power takes you seriously.
>there is science behind the reasoning
There's half science behind it that don't show much evidence. And regardless, all mental illnesses have scientific backing, it doesn't mean they're not an illness.
>>5319513
Ohh engineer pseudo intellectuals.
Figures,
There was a reason I switched majors
>>5319513
>concern trolling
Bitch please
>>5319520
Probably because you couldn't make it as a stem major so you switched to being a bitch where facts are optional and yelling gets you bonus points.
>>5319513
If all mental illnesses had scientific backing that it's not a mental illness, then there'd be no mental illnesses.
>You know, 4chan has a high population of engineers and scientists
And they go to /sci/ or /lit/, and are probably fairly inactive, and would definitely not spend their time on /lgbt/ dragging on for hours on how they can't into logic and science.
Most of your so called "engineers and scientists", are people that are studying something STEM. You aren't an engineer or scientist until you have your degree and have worked one of those jobs a few years.
>>5319526
So we went full shitposting now
Good to see the thread is gone.
>>5319473
>>5319476
More ad hominem attacks. So many trans people are such bullies.
>>5319467
I really hope that you do find some happiness and can live a good life. But I can't listen to someone's bullshit without calling them out on it. I do the same to the religious, white/black supremists, left and right wingers. When you're spouting out some bullshit, expect to get called out on it. Don't go calling those people bullies. That's like calling a mirror a bully when you look in it and see something you don't like.
>>5319486
>your same tired points
First time I've ever participated in one of these threads, but damn it's a real eye opener. I'm sure there's plenty of reasonable transsexuals, but almost every one in this thread is incredibly hostile and generally a shitty person as far as I can tell.
>>5319489
Thank you, finally someone with some reason. Regardless of what science says I think you should do whatever makes you happy. I just hate when people can't admit that there's a possibility that they are wrong and would prefer to call you names and attack your character than have a real conversation. Also I don't believe it's just in any way for the government to pay for any unnecessary procedures. But I do think you should have the option available and that people shouldn't discriminate against you for making that choice. As long as it makes you happy and doesn't negatively impact others I say have at it.
>>5319494
>>5319503
>>5319508
All of you keep saying "science, science, science" but there's also plenty of "science" that says the exact opposite. But you call those studies hateful and politically incorrect and disregard them entirely because of hurt feelings. Gay lobbying in the western countries suppresses anything that goes against the PC culture wave. The only reason someone would suppress research is if they were afraid of the results.
>>5319526
Rational wiki >>> concern troll
I switched to physics, engineers are fags
>>5319255
>god exists
>no he doesn't
>prove he doesn't!!!
>>5319534
Post those 'studies' that say transsexualism is a mental illness
0 points for mchugh
>>5317533
The thing is, whether it's a mental illness is not too important; quality of life is. Correction therapy doesn't work, despite definitely having been tried more rhan anything else. Transition works, it improves life quality, removes the worst things about the "illness"
>>5319449
>"It's not my job to educate you"
kek
>>5317589
Untru, like 95-97% of transitions report positive results
>>5319548
You need me to spoon feed everything to you?
>>5319534
>but there's also plenty of "science" that says the exact opposite.
No, there isn't.
If there was, then you could just provide it.
> But you call those studies hateful and politically incorrect and disregard them entirely because of hurt feelings.
Those aren't studies, those are articles.
Somebody writing an article about how much they hate trans people and that it's wrong, doesn't in any way make it scientifical.
Blog posts aren't science.
>The only reason someone would suppress research is if they were afraid of the results.
Which is probably why there are so few studies, because it'd prove transsexualism more and more right, and then people would have to give in and admit that they're bad people.
>Gay lobbying in the western countries
That doesn't in any way protect transsexuals from harassment, lots of people are pro-gay, but anti-trans, and I'd almost think that trans people get more shit from LGB people than from straight people.
If they're suppressing anything, it's to advance any rights and science that would help trans people, like they've done for like over half a century already.
>>5319532
>Sci or lit
/a/ is probably 80% engineers and science folks.
Same goes for most the hobby boards to a lesser extent. Sci and lit are where the pseudo intellectuals go.
Anyone who spends their day in a science related job, the ideas and lifestyles stick with you outside of work as well.
>>5319572
>/a/ is probably 80% engineers and science folks
Oh wow, time to abandon the thread
>>5319572
Well, engineers don't really have anything to contribute into this, only scientists.
I doubt /a/ has any people that even managed to graduate, I can image lots of IT freaks go there though.
Only things that matter here is neuro-science, bio-science, and maybe some others that are about the human body and brain.
Even working at NASA doesn't give you any credentials to this discussion.
>>5317640
>says that there is data that supports his argument
>doesn't post it
>>5319593
Nobody is gonna waste their time posting studies that proves the earth isn't flat.
If you want to know that the earth isn't flat, you'll have to do the research yourself.
>>5319555
Yes, when you guys burn all the evidence there's nothing left. LGBT has highjacked the APA and they only approve pro-LGBT studies. It's a politically based pseudo-science propaganda machine now. Feminists and LGBT activists work to ban speakers, researchers, and discussions from universities that would discredit their position. More "safe spaces" and "tolerance training" to keep people from disagreeing with your point of view. Sounds like a book burning party waiting to happen to me. Sounds like some Nazi, or Jesuit, or ISIS type behavior to me.
>bad people
You're clearly not interested in a real discussion just like your politically active LGBT counterparts. You're just towing the ultra-liberal politically correct line.
>>5319613
There's no recent studies to support your bogus claims, because the GAYS have burrrrrned the evidence.
Cool, so you have no real evidence that trannies are mentally ill, what a surprise
>>5319613
>I'm open minded though! I swear!
I guess you were, and that's why you took that stuff to heart... To then completely seal yourself off from reality.
>>5319637
I'm not posting anything because I'm not your personal google. It's not hard to use the internet on your own. You haven't posted a single study proving your point either so your point is bunk.
>>5319641
I don't know where you're getting this from: this "take it too the heart" "seal yourself off from reality" stuff. You sound like a high school drama kid. Did you respond to the wrong post? I can't understand how you came up with that response based off my post.
>>5319602
>stop disagreeing with me! I don't have a disease!
>REEEEEEEEEEEE
If finding the study was as easy as finding evidence that the world is round then you wouldn't have to waste much time at all searching for it. Literally the only reason you wouldn't already have posted any proof is because it either doesn't exist or only partially supports your case
>>5319660
Or because this thread isn't my life, and convincing you has no value to me.
Despite what you may believe, you're not important.
>>5319658
>HAHA
You're not my personal Google, but I'm supposed to be yours? For fucks sake
>>5319660
You're forgetting another, simpler explanation, Anon. Are you sure that's the *only* reason?
>>5319660
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tsOmDzA5fRX2EH5Mg11kqIg/htmlview?pli=1
here, now fuck off
Does it even matter when transition is the only known method to help? We just don't have enough research into transsexualism yet to know all there is about the condition. No point in arguing something when we don't have all the pieces in play yet. I would love for more funding into research because I want to understand my condition to the best of my ability.
Maybe it is the brain and body developed wrong for eachother. Maybe we are depressed and see "the grass is greener on the other side". Maybe we are just fucking insane. No point worrying about it. The real world affects are what matters and whatever makes me a happier better person is what I want to do.
>>5319677
Tbh senpai I think your use of fallacies (there's point me explaining what an ad hominem response is since everyone knows what it is and you wouldn't need me to explain why the world is round) is triggering me more than the lack of evidence is triggering you
>>5319681
I didn't say that. Did you read my post? I said I'm not posting anything because I don't have to and that you're not posting anything because you don't have to either. But you argue that I need to give you proof. Yet you don't give me proof. I'm saying your argument is bunk and neither of us have to google anything for each other. Take some reading comprehension classes please, for your own sake.
>>5319709
There's no point arguing when all transgendered/transsexual people want to do is attack those who have differing points of views.
>whatever makes me a happier, better person is what I want to do
Sounds like the best philosophy to follow. Try not to let transsexuals bully you into thinking it's the only way nor anti-trans tell you you're wrong. Just do some research and try to make yourself happy however you can.
>>5317627
The children forced to see floppy transexual cock in changing rooms
>>5319726
The difference here is that you're arguing against the commonly agreed fact, so you'll have to provide evidence.
>>5319726
The point of this whole thread is that you have to ask us why transsexuality is not a mental illness because you can't use google to find your own scientific evidence to form your own educated opinion for whatever reason.
and i want your sources because i have looked and can't find them.
and i did give you evidence not proof >>5319694
>>5319746
>commonly agreed
In your echo chamber, sure. Just like in Jonestown they commonly agreed on drinking the kool aid.
>>5319726
>STILL playing the victim
>>5319769
Playing the victim? You really are delusional aren't you.
If your not just trying to fuck with people I would have the conversation your looking for in person but on here and the internet in general it just looks like the same shit we see everyday. Just looks like people tryin to shit on us trannies day in day out same shit. gets old.
>>5319747
tsk...
Anon you don't know how this works, do you.
Your next task will be citing the *specific* studies that support your position (because only your position needs support, not OP's).
Then you will need to provide an annotated excerpt of the research methods, results, and conclusions, referencing the philosophical traditions responsible for the line of thinking that provided the study's hypotheses.
Then you'll have to provide a background check of every individual involved in all of that research, and evidence as to the impartiality of their members and funding organization(s).
Then you'll need to perform a statistical meta-analysis of related research in-thread in order to prove that results are statistically significant.
Last, your efforts will be dismissed since no study you are citing derives its results from a double-blind experiment.
>>5319738
How about the children forced to have floppy white person cock up their asses?
Maybe we should treat white men. Just saiyan'
>>5319794
>I would have the conversation your looking for in person
I wouldn't. Don't you care for your safety senpai?
>>5319809
What the fuck are you even trying to say here
>>5319809
You got floppy ones? I only got rock hard. I guess I win ^_^
>>5319497
>It seems like simple logic
That's the problem, they want their own kind of autism-"logic" that is based on what seems right to them instead of actual science.
>>5317533
>calling intersex a mutant
>calling genital mutilation at birth 'correction'
>thinking most intersex people don't kill themselves
>because you can't give someone the wrong genitals
>probably is a filthy tranny that hates intersex because they're legit
>commit sudoku senpai
>>5317533
It is a mental illness though, isn't it?
I mean, it's called 'gender identity disorder' after all.
The problems with stuff like butch/crossdressing etc are simply societal.
Butch lesbians want to look+act macho, and sissy faggots want to look+act flamboyant. Haters gonna hate and hate is bad mkay.
But to wish to 'become' the opposite gender is equating appearance/physicality with biological gender and imposing it on yourself. That's not healthy. It's delusional and sexist, really.
Keep the following in mind. You never see people who undergo gender reassignment wish things like "I want to become the ugly, square-jawed woman I really am inside," or "I want to become the skinnyfat male I am inside" even though there are millions of cis-het people out there who simply are expected to just deal with their aesthetic flaws.
These trans people are just chasing some delusional genital-based worship of idealized gender stereotypes, in a desperate effort to become one themselves.
This _is_ delusional behavior.
When a cis-het woman gets fake tits she knows they are fake, and if she tells herself they're natural everyone laughs at the stupid bimbo in denial. We do the opposite for people with gender identity disorder. Instead of sobering them, we enable them. When cis-het men take steroids just to compete in physically demanding industries, they get shamed.
We don't seem to care if they are 'born wrong' by having skinnyfat or ottermode genetics when they want to be bulky footballers.
But when an athlete born as a woman takes a compensatory amount of testosterone to set her above the natural male average, SJWs do further enabling.
I'm not saying either is wrong in itself. Modify your body all you like. Bigger/different, why not. It can feel good to be a chick with a dick.
BUT if the purpose is to attain some perceived form of biological legitimacy/license to practice desired gender pronoun, you're fucking nuts.
>>5319541
Burden of proof tends to rest on the one making the more extraordinary claim. There really are no substantial arguments either way on the issue of God, however arguing that God exists is the more extraordinary claim. Which means, that in the absence of evidence otherwise, the simplest and most rational thing to do is assume God doesn't exist, or at least doesn't exist in a meaningful form.
Claiming that gender dysphoria doesn't exist is an extremely extraordinary claim, as even doctors strongly opposed to the supposed "trans agenda" like McHugh at least acknowledge the existence of gender dysphoria.
Making it about positive/negative is misleading, since you can easily flip the question around to basically ask the same thing but as a positive instead of negative, or vice versa. Think of it this way: I'm not asking you to prove gender dysphoria DOESN'T exist, but rather to prove that you're right when literally the entire medical community says otherwise.
>>5319738
Uh, why is transsexual cock any worse than cis person cock?
>>5319765
As it turns out, pretty much the entire medical community agrees with the "echo chamber". Arguing against it without evidence just makes you look like a joke.
>>5320634
It's currently called gender dysphoria, GID is no longer in use. The idea is that gender variance is not inherently a disorder, only the resulting dysphoria is.
>>5317533
100% mental illness
>>5319738
>implying any transsexual goes to any type of changing room where there are other people before bottom surgery
>>5320648
>The idea is that gender variance is not inherently a disorder . . .
Whether you're biologically male or female is not a disorder? Well duh, that's what most people in the world assume.
>. . . only the resulting dysphoria is.
How is this different from saying someone has a mental disorder?
"Your dysphoria is a disorder."
is pretty much like saying
"Your schizophrenia is a disorder."
Further, dictionary.com defines dysphoria as 'state of dissatisfaction, anxiety, restlessness, or fidgeting.'
Keyword anxiety. Because trans-people tend to throw around 'acute anxiety' over mere 'dissatisfaction,' or 'fidgeting.'
According to webmd:
http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/guide/mental-health-anxiety-disorders
'An anxiety order is a serious mental illness.'
Basically, 'gender dysphoria' is to 'gender identity disorder' as 'special' is to 'retarded.'
>>5320694
>Whether you're biologically male or female is not a disorder? Well duh, that's what most people in the world assume.
Being a feminine male isn't a disorder. But in the past, it was often assumed to be.
>Basically, 'gender dysphoria' is to 'gender identity disorder' as 'special' is to 'retarded.'
Gender dysphoria refers to a specific medical condition. For a male to identify as female was once considered a disorder, now it's not itself considered a disorder, it's only a disorder if they have dysphoria about it.
>thread still alive
Why this board even exists if it's just a variation of /pol/?
>>5319550
Then explain the ridiculous suicide rates. They are obviously not happy. Even some of the QTs anhero.
>>5322429
I guess the janitor script that removes lewd threads and pornography roughly every 17 hours isn't able to handle the nuance of distinguishing "respectful discussion of _Subject_" from "dismissive rhetoric about _Subject_".
AI janitors will work one day. Have faith!
>>5322356
Being a feminine male is certainly a disorder.
>>5322448
If you're citing the Dutch study, observe that, starting in 1989, the suicide ATTEMPT rates of post-op trans men and trans women are both roughly equivalent to those of cis women.
Other studies have done a very poor job at time-lapsed statistical analysis of the welfare of trans persons. The usual number you'll find thrown out regularly is "lifetime suicide attempt rate"... Which doesn't tell you very much about transition's effectiveness, now does it?
>>5322539
Sorry, meant to say starting with people receiving surgery after 1989, but wound up lazily writing something different.
I won't argue about whether or not it's a mental illness, but I will add that you're generally born this way and nothing can really be done about it. They tried psychiatric treatment. It was the mainstay treatment for over 50 years. Shit doesn't work, because it's inborn.
I mean, by a definition loose enough to call being trans a mental illness, being gay is a mental illness too. I mean, you're biologically designed to want to fuck the opposite sex. If something goes wrong with that, then there's TECHNICALLY something wrong with you. You're failing your largest and oldest biological impulse. By that logic, being gay is literally the most mentally ill you can possibly get, because it's interfering with your function as a living organism.
But we don't say that because just because it's wrong doesn't mean it's bad. Naturalism and natural purpose is not the end-all-be-all of morality and health. A naturalist argument is pointless, lazy, and outdated. I mean, if you really want to go the "It's not natural/not how you're supposed to work" argument then you might as well say that people who don't want to reproduce by forcible rape are mentally ill.
It's not about whether it's correct or incorrect, it's about whether it's good or bad. Two very different things. Being trans and being gay are biologically incorrect, but they're not bad. Rape is biologically correct, but it's not good.
Really, I guess what I'm saying is that, as a race, we've kind of transcended our own programming and have the capacity to be better than than we were designed, and we should use that capacity.
>>5317676
Yeah, let's force everybody to dress and act androgynous.
>>5322470
Being a feminine male is entirely within possible natural reproductive outcomes. It harms no one. The only harms present are from bigoted people who tease, harass, and exclude those men that are naturally feminine. Those bigots are the ones that need to be reformed and corrected to change their harmful ways..
>>5322881
Are we not allowed to dislike certain personalities anymore if it offends you?
>>5322822
Not a bad idea actually. Who knows, men might even stop being violent animals.
>>5326212
Personalities aren't disorders just because you dislike them. And disliking someone's personality is not a justification for harassment
>>5322738
>>5322738
I think people who go with the "It's not natural" arguments are the kinds of people who completely forget that the naturalism view also supports no hospitals, killing anyone born with disease, killing off all the stupid people (literally 90% of everyone), only letting the top 5-10% of society reproduce, oh and letting people die from vaccinatable diseases because interfering is not natural.
>>5322539
Ah, yes I was using that Study. Interesting thank you for that info. Do you have any other sources I could look at on this subject?
