/k/ You're now the minister (Sec.) of defense of a small island nation, the government is looking to replace your military's standard issue rifle with an updated, newer replacement more "modern" design.
Unfortunately they've already narrowed down your options to the two firearms seen here.
>pic related
The current service rifle is the Steyr A1
The proposed new rifle is the LMT AR-15 platfrom (Gas/direct or piston impingement options)
You have to decide if we keep the Steyr A1 or move to the LMT AR.
Justify your reasons for either choice.
>No you don't get any other choices.
The LMT will replace the A1 regardless of your opinion because a certain minister says it "looks cooler when it goes bang"
and
"the American's have one like that don't they?"
So really, you don't have a choice, but let's pretend you did.
Begin shitposting.
.
Sexy pix to help you decide.
>>29798547
AR, because;
>parts/accessories/repair and support systems and logistics are well established
>parts are cheap
>simple and not awkward to use (bullpup reloads are kind of a pain at times)
>modularity out the ass
>non-retarded select fire system and no shit-tier mushy trigger
>other reasons I'm forgetting since running on 2 hours of sleep and a fuckload of caffeine/sugar
why don't you just say yourself whatever it is you desperately want us to say?
The touted issue was that the guns weren't "accurate" enough. I save everyone millions by investing in new barrels for the Steyrs and mandate that everyone should slap themselves for thinking that a .223 AR will be meaningfully more accurate than a bullpup AR.
I spend the money I saved on a new air wing including armed M500s and super tucanos, because my unnamed small island nation hasn't had an airforce since it sold off its aging Skyhawks over a decade ago.
>>29798547
Buy some of each.
Have them tested.
Leave the final choice up to a popular vote by those who tested the weapons.
Of course, why am I doing standard-issue weapons for people on a small island nation? I'd put in a recommendation that all citizens be given military training and access to any gun that they desire out of pocket.
>>29798575
Nyo.
do it for me.
>>29798582
The small nation is about 4 million people.
>>29798547
As a high-trier decision maker, I would look at it, the cost to replace it and go like: both shit out 5.56 at similar accuracy, the steyr doesn't have a shit-ass reputation, so thefuck is this about? buy something more useful with the money if you wanna spend it.
Personally, I'd go for the AR, because most bullpups are shit if you are lefthanded.
>>29798547
OP, what's the general military situation? Neighbors, allies, enemies? What are natural resources? Location?
>This thread.
>>29798547
Enough about fucking guns, we need to change the flag of our little nation NOW
>>29798611
14,612 active duty (all branches + Reserves + Civilians employed)
Army:
Regular Force 5,000
Reserves 1,700
Large continent N.W of the nation
significantly larger force but allies dating back to WWI.
Large pile of ice S.E of the small island nation 0 population, though the penguins may hold an uprising some time in future but intelligence suggests the SEALs have that contained.
Enemies, anything in flipflops and turbans located hundreds of miles away.
Natural resources, fuck loads of sheep, shit loads of cows and dick load of trees.
a bit of coal and a tid bit of water.
Location is somewhere in the deep south pacific between fuck fuck no where and where the fuck are we.
>>29798624
I have a proposal.
>>29798631
I really hope they figure out what you mean by now.
Anyway OP, the AUG A1 needs to be replaced. The LMT is a pretty good rifle. You should get over it.
>>29798547
ITT we Shit Talk New Zealand without naming the country.
Props some butthurt aussie who is fucked off he can't own semis
Get fucked you dicks
>>29798611
Military situation is that its a cluster of islands, nearest major neighbour is a large mineral-rich nanny-state which is on amicable terms.
Allied with the west, natural resources are primarily farmland and mining.
Somewhere possibly in the Pacific.
>>29798624
I don't mind changing the flag, but not to the soulless corporatised faggot shit that was shortlisted. No white feathers and no goddamn korus.
>>29798547
Confirmed NZ thread
AKA Aussie pier pressure thread.
Honest truth:
There is no shortcoming to the Bullpup design,
But due to American adoption over alternatives, the AR15 design will be the most revised and modernised design.
Aussies have done well with the F90/EF88
Making the Steyr a modern weapon, but until a reliable modern american bullpup is created, and inevitably made standard issue, the format will not see widespread use outside of countries currently used
>>29798640
Aggro much there chum?
Its more about the 'upgrade' to ARs than blasting the country...
>>29798631
Get liberated by America, get more of muh gun rights. And American benefits, plus cheaper shit.
>>29798645
>this
I'm actually from this nation and was wondering how long it'd take for people to work it out.
>>29798646
We don't need you guys coming in and trying to restrict our suppressors and barrel lengths mate.
Better pistol laws would be nice tho...
Shotty Shotty Shotty
Has anyone actually shot an LMT AR and has first-hand opinions?
or better yet owned one or both of these weapons?
>>29798638
>Anyway OP, the AUG A1 needs to be replaced.
Nah, not right now. In the grand scheme of things, infantry rifles are inconsequential to a forces effectiveness. More important things that need to be focused on long before a new rifle is on the agenda are things like pissweak force projection and lack of aerial strike capability.
>>29798663
>implying my Huey isn't aerial strike capable
>>29798665
>is actually whole Air force in 1 pic.
>>29798665
The Hueys shuffled off early this year, we got the NH90s coming in now.
Maybe we'll see them again in the air museums next to our skyhawks..
>>29798673
>more dakka for your bucka.
>>29798662
Was hoping to pick up an AUG if some go up for public sale, rather than buy the overpriced GC ones.
Are the LMTs any different from any other AR?
>>29798665
I'm talking ground attack, like AH6s. IMO, the goal should be to turn NZ into a small highly professional self-supporting (so no scabbing support of the Americans when deployed) internationally mobile fighting force like the royal/US marines. We are small enough that I think it could work.
>>29798686
Hey, we scabbed off the Aussies and Germans too.
>>29798673
For srs though, I'm halfway into the paperwork phase of enlistment, just doing my medicals atm (vaccines etc) I'm actually kind of disappointed I may not get to try the Steyr and instead be moved right onto the LMT.
I'd hope the Steyr remains as the primary in Basic and then you get updated to the LMT after, or at least move all the old Steyrs to some reserve units.
I find it unlikely they'll sell them, they're certainly not going to pay for the semi-auto conversion (esp with that progressive trigger system, not even sure how the fuk you convert that).
so its market for sale is:
-Collector license (less than ~2000 issued)
or
-Gunshops willing to do conversions.
which will drive prices way up.
and who wants to pay all that money for a cummy old beat up Steyr?
>>29798673
NH90s. I know they are the usual procurement fuckup here in germany, what is the NZ opinion on these things?
>>29798547
I don't get it, what do you fags need a super duper military for, anyways? Why don't they take the billions they'll spend on new ordonnance and just build something nice with it? That's actually for the people?
At best, you guys had to do some patrols through Kabul in the last year. Who the fuck cares about little advantages then?
>>29798695
If you're going in the July basic you should be trained on the Steyr, if in the later ones maybe not. Even the reserve units are getting LMT's btw.
>>29798695
>cummy
kek, crummy.
>>29798686
I considered a good plan would be turn the NZDF into a small guerrilla style force, we have literal miles of bush and forest landscape and huge mountains to make full effect of, all major roads are surrounded by hills and high ground, a force trained to utilize our natural terrain would restrict a lot of logistics for the enemy.
let's face it, even if we conscripted the entire nation we'd never stop a landing force of any sizeable amount w/ air support w/ naval support, so the best option would be an extremely well trained force able to operate on its own and improvise, resupplying from the enemies own equipment etc.
works for the talibs, why not us?
>>29798710
My intake is the August AARC 385
>assuming I pass the aptitude test
>tfw suck at math
>>29798695
Depends how cheap the government hocks them off for, plus stores like GC will be able to drop in semi auto trigger packs, if the NZDF armourers cant just find a part to grind off.
Cant imagine them being more expensive than the new ones at least, Id like one to go with my SMLE and SLR..
>>29798695
>Who wants to pay all that money for a scummy old beat up Steyr?
You might get lucky. When the SLRs got ditched, there were a bunch of really stuffed ones that made their way onto the market, but also a few really nice examples that had never been fired. It was all luck of the draw.
>>29798700
Dunno, our last choppers were all ones the US threw out after 'nam, so I guess the NH90s will seem decent by comparison.
I accidentally converted my Steyr to semi-auto from auto by the bolt spring's connection to the bolt teeth breaking. The rifle still worked just required using the forward assist to force the new round in.
>>29798716
As long as you can do basic addition, subtraction, division and multiplication you'll be okay as long as you're not trying to go officer, gunner or intelligence.
>>29798730
>gulp
(CSOp)
(OPSIS)
(ISOp)
!!!!
I got a certificate in computing so I'm hoping that compensates a little.
if I fucked it up I wonder if i'll get a different trade option.
>>29798708
>I don't get it, what do you fags need a super duper military for, anyways?
Its mostly to give impoverished Maoris from shitty suburbs a shot at a better life and a way to get away from their scummy families. However, not being a cuck country, if we have something then it might as well be good.
>>29798743
Yes, but it's not like what you have now was shitty. That's the point. It might not be the best, but it's tottally ok for your uses.
Or at least, i don't think the little advantage of the new ones is worth such an absurd amount of money. And it will cost that. Why not spend the money on something nice, that helps people.
>>29798742
Maybe you are underestimating how good at maths you are if you can do computing code okay.
Unless you absolutely do not get anything right in regards to maths then they will offer you another trade, prolly infantry, driver or some other logi thing.
>>29798750
See, I can manage HTML but straight math problems I shit the bed, I can not understand it, printing out math sheets online and working through them brush up.
I ace the reasoning test shit so not worried about that.
Worst situation, end up gunning this
<
>>29798749
Gotta dress like America-senpai, that takes priority over everything else.
>>29798759
might be the point, renewing parks, streets or schools does not please the trade with the US. Buying tons of new guns probably does.
>>29798758
I noticed at the very END of the math portion that I had been reflex-typing the wrong keys the entire time, due to "omg nervous about this math" anxiety.
I still ended up with high enough scores to do military intelligence.
>>29798758
Yeah that's true. They'll find you something I'm sure.
Make sure you can do basic algebra btw. You may want to look up how to read maps, do magnetic variation adjustments for using a compass and map and the like.
>>29798763
>renewing parks
Why would we need this? Entire suburbs of Christchurch are now one big public park.
>>29798766
>Got nay more info on the particular math involved?
>>29798768
>thank you for this
>>29798772
It's just an example m8, don't act like there's not a single way to spend the money on helping the communities or at least someone. Don't you guys have homeless or something?
Like i said, you really think the little advantage the new rifle might give is worth billions?
>>29798631
Ally with America again instead of bitching about nuclear weapons
>>29798773
The know how about maps is not needed for the aptitude test but it's best yah figure this shit out before basic so you don't shit the farm when you do your required nav shit in basic.
>>29798799
Yeah, I mean If I pass the aptitude test and the EFT I still need to wait until Jan 2017 to find out if I made it in or not and Basic is 27 feb.
so IF i make it through the APT test and EFT I'll work the stuff like maps.
>>29798777
>Don't you guys have homeless or something?
Nah not really, relative to other developed countries. Ultimately, the government has hemorrhaged billions in welfare state and treaty bullshit that a few million on a more modular rifle doesn't seem like a big deal.
>you really think the little advantage the new rifle might give is worth billions?
Nobody thinks that, its purely to enable better interchangeability when crosstraining with the Americans, which is predicted to become more common what with 5Eyes agreement and all that. Besides, it'll only be a few million $ anyway. We've spent more on less.
>>29798637
That just might be terrible enough to work.
>>29798816
>We've spent more on less.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11622741
>>29798844
Just a thought, wouldn't it be better for us to have a world class destroyer fleet, rather than the shit we have now?
considering all the illegal jap boats that slip past us stealing our fish and snatchin' our whales?
>>29798815
You can do 2.4km in under 10 minutes, 30 plus pushups and 130 situps? (the like weird army ones where you have your hands on the floor and only need to sit up enough to make them move like 10cm)
>>29798851
What are we gonna do? ban the importation of anime till they stop eating whales?
>>29798855
Yeah, I run 4km a day (had a cold past 3 days so I've just done strength training) My last timed 2.5k run was 11:00 but it was also the first time I did a timed run, I'd spent time building my endurance base before that.
The situps I can never fucking work out how to train them, if I do a full situp I feel like I'm training a different core part than when I do those goofy crunches.
Also supposed to situp and get your shoulder blades off the ground and lower down without your head touching.
it's surprisingly difficult once you hit about 60.
>>29798884
Yeahp they are. The reason why we do those is because the fitness instructors do not want to jeopardize your back in any way since that is pretty much you gone and them having wasted alot of money.
Just keep doing the goofy ones, they aren't goofy really, they target solely your core and don't fuck up your back.
>>29798927
So, to be clear.
it's legs 45* angle
arms straight by your side
crunch up until shoulder blades are off the ground
hands must move forward together 7cm
repeat 60x
>>29798940
130 times to pass basic. 60 is bloody easy.
>>29798945
Oh I just meant the EFT.
>>29798958
Don't aim for that, aim for what is expected of you, and it will be expected. Plus get good now so you don't get aas fucked by the air in Waiouru. You usually lose an entire minute on your 2.4km just because the air is so thin there.
>>29799000
That's a good point, I completely forgot about that place being 2,000ft up
>>29798547
A DI AR15 is the best platform.
>>29798662
LMT is actually one of the main suppliers for the US AR market. They make a fuck ton of parts and sell them to other companies that re-brand them. Something like 30% of all lower receivers in the US are made by LMT. They're rock solid.
>>29799029
Atleast there's amazing views up there. Nothing like being on the sentry just before the sun comes up and watching the light twinkle off of Mt Ruapehu... Then being hit by hail five minutes later and then being clear skies and fucking 36 degrees celsius 20 minutes after that.
>>29799067
What corps were/are you?
Surely team ANZAC should keep the same weapon system as each other, as they have done so for all their existence? For all the cost and little advantage to getting the LMT it almost seems like NZ is trying to distance themselves from their neighbours. Combine this with their de-commonwealthing of the flag and it makes me wonder if NZ has a growing nationalist and isolationist philosophy taking over. Any kiwis think this is the case?
>>29799071
RNZIR (Infantry)
>>29799086
Just complete governmental incompetence, we have a fucking pleb for a PM, the national party are a bunch of cucks and the labour party is in chaos and they caused the shockwave of fuckups after decommissioning the skyhawks and not following up with the F-16 replacements + the piss poor defense budget.
that whole ANZAC thing only the people care about that, NZ citizens can't enlist in the Australian army (which we used to be able to) and a bunch of other ANZAC obligations that aren't really in effect AFAIK.
it's really just a parade/remembrance/propaganda type deal at this point, I really wish we were more unified with Australia.
I'm not a fan of de-commonwealthing either, being attached to the commonwealth is good safety net (or disaster if they go to war, depends how you look at it).
>>29799110
Unit?
>>29799110
would you recommend RNZIR?
desu a lot of the grunts are intimidating as fuck, I'm only 5'9 and a white guy and I don't want to be in a place I don't belong but at the same time it might be my only option based on my ineptitude with the aptitude (; .
>>29799136
>forgetting the filter desu desu
>>29799127
In a TF unit, won't say beyond that.
>>29799156
Same here
>>29799136
How you look doesn't matter, it's who you are as a person and what you want to do that matters.
>>29799162
are the candidate coordinators always so fuckin useless?
It's like they don't even pay attention, I asked a simple question about the roles I signed up for and they went right past it and onto the next step.
Worst bit aside from the waiting is mulling over 100's of questions in your head and trying to answer them yourself.
ah well, all goes to shit I'll try TF.
>>29798547
>No you dont get any other choices
fuck you op im the fucking secretary of deffence bitch!!
>Agents sieze this man!
>agents storm the room and arrest op
>op is tried for the crime of supreme faggotry
>found guilty and put to death
>then we get a cool gun and everyone is happy and we all get cookies n shit nigga
>>29799210
Yeah they aren't army and do not have much contact it seems with any of the branches besides a random lieutenant that does the interviews.
Give them an email if they don't respond within a week since I had them miss an email or two when I was going through the joining process.
With TF you have to keep in mind that because it is mainly uni students and people in good careers (for the most part, had two useless pink batts installers in my platoon in basic so wasn't impossible) that is who you'll be competing for slots against.
Additionally depending on where you live it can be either awesome with great job opportunities or not as good either due to numbers or transit times.
>>29799248
You make a good point about Uni students, I'm in nelly there's a NMIT here that I bet has a bunch in TF.
fuck I wish this was 1950 where only dopey cunts and ex-cons went into the military, they wouldn't be so picky.
I got British citizenship so absolute worst case scenario my girl and I move there and I join BAF.
at this point the military is the only career I give two shits about being in for reasons I don't know.
>>29799284
There is a bit of a push for getting more people in that are good atm. I'm sure you'll get in bro.
>>29799291
I appreciate the advice and wishes /k/ommando.
i dont know this thread is about but it seems to be an aug vs m16/m4 kinda thing
im in the market to build a gun collection and the first three are:
mp9mm
PS90
AUG A3
i find the m16/m4 to be waaaay to much for such a common gun, so many fucken varients.
>>29798605
>because most bullpups are shit if you are lefthanded
Most bullpups can have an ambi ejection port, Steyr included.
keep the steyr, if we buy the AR it will cost the government a lot of island cowrie shell money.
better keep that spare cash for the malaria funds.
>>29799428
Cheap M4?
I would've thought an Aug a3 would run you more than an M4
I think it comes down to personal preference, I really really am in love with the Aug's aesthetically.
The A1 (in the pic ^^^) was apparently so bad the Australian troops refused to use it, so that's how they got the customized AuSteyr
The A3 for me doesn't have the same aesthetic appeal, I think it's mostly the simplicity of the sight and the way it's built on the rail.
that said.
this limited edition white steyr is fuqqin siqq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqYLaG1aTFw&ab
AUG has that quick takedown barrel. Which is fantastic for cleaning. It also means tool free changing of barrels for different lengths, twists, and profiles.
>>29799851
>It also means tool free changing of barrels for different lengths, twists, and profiles.
nobody ever does that really
especially not armed forces
can we spend the money on electronic triggers for the aug so it won't have the garbage bullpup mechanical linkage issues?
>>29799482
If were talking to the anon and not the thread, Aug A3's run about $1700. That is double, if not triple, of what it takes to build a M16 or M4 look-a-like. ARs are cheap.
And don't even mention an A1 or A2. They will run $3000 or more. You could get an MSAR clone, which run about $1200, but then you won't have bragging rights that you own a genuine AUG.
>>29799948
Why's the A1 so expensive?
they didn't make a select fire variant?
>>29799975
Because they are ultra rare, and the ban in the 90's didn't help matters.
And I'm just talking about the civie market. If we're talking about military procurement, I have no clue. Although countries like New Zealand switching over to the M4 from the AUG probably tell you that it's losing the price wars.
I hate all piston systems in ar15s. There are no rails to guide the bcg, and that cause carrier tilt, which causes problems. So DI, for sure. Ar15s are lightweight and ergonomic rifles. I'd not begrudge the change. I would like 18inch free floated rifles with 4.5 pound triggers to be standard, and then a heavy barreled automatic rifleman variant to replace my lmgs at the fireteam level. Because accurate point automatic fire suppresses better than inaccurate area automatic fire
Keep the steyr. Piston ar15s are shit.
I'd rather ask the US for some cheap M16A4s
>>29798685
>Are the LMTs any different from any other AR?
Not particularly, they're just your standard moderately well built, moderately priced AR.
>keep AUGs
>never see any actual conflict
>convert all surplus/tradein to semiauto and sell to American market for 1k a pop
>make mad dosh
I ignore them and use pic related.
