Has anyone tried the civil defense rounds? these HAVE to fuck someone up pretty bad. its 78 grains for fuck sake.
discuss.
>>28097885
might as well use 115 grain 9mm ball m8
>>28097925
the penetration from the civil defense round is not that great, but it creates a cavity about 8 inches in diameter through one layer of clothing. That's pretty impressive. And it's also hollow down to the base of the bullet
>>28097885
Heavier = Better
>>28097885
>these HAVE to fuck someone up pretty bad. its 78 grains for fuck sake
That is some seriously fucked up logic.
The penetration from these is guaranteed to be garbage tier. You can start caring about shit like expansion when you've met and preferably exceeded the penetration requirements, but not before. Ultralight JHPs suck ass.
>>28097956
Maybe not always. This looks like an incredibly devastating round from youtube videos on ballistics gel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fshe09oUQ7o
It's a pretty neat round, I have heard the 9mm has some penetration issues past 12 inches.
You gotta love the ballistic tests though, damn things have so much kinetic energy they literally spark in the wound channel, which is fist sized.
>>28097984
You do realize that gel is not a good representation of the human body, right? No matter what they say.
>>28097885
They are fun to shoot.
No recoil and its more of a pop sound than a bang like a normal round.
When it comes to .45 though, theres no substitution for mass, thats what .45 does best.
>>28097989
exactly! plus, you figure if you're in a home defense situation you're not just going to fire one round.
>>28098000
it's the closest thing to human muscle that you can test.
>>28097983
They can go through body armor. So they can penetrate pretty well. Check youtube.
>>28098009
>it's the closest thing to human muscle that you can test.
But a body is a lot more than muscle.
>>28098009
>it's the closest thing to human muscle that you can test.
No, that would be a pig carcass.
Ballistic gel is nothing like human tissue in most ways.
It's just something that can be consistently replicated, and closely predicts penetration.
>>28098019
>>28098028
well, I'd suggest engineering something more life-like and patent it. you'll be rich.
>>28097984
>This looks like an incredibly devastating round from youtube videos on ballistics gel.
Devastating, yeah. Only long before it has reached vital organs. Which translates to useless.
>>28098010
M193 can penetrate all body armor and some of the level III plates.
But it has issues with windshields and intermediate cover.
You need mass to penetrate enough tissue/cover, ESPECIALLY in a high caliber round, since the resistance is going to be higher. This round is the exact opposite of what you need to penetrate these reliably.
>>28098010
Penetrating body armor has nothing to do with penetrating a human.
>>28098044
>all body armor
All soft armor, I meant.
>>28098042
As the other guy said, pig carcass.
>>28098057
Patent pending
>>28098042
Realistic mediums aren't reproducible.
The best you could do is to get fresh human cadavers.
Ballistic gel is good at doing it's job.
But all that job involves is being reproducible, and predicting penetration.
>>28098057
pigs are anatomically the closest to humans, not physically - but we're getting off topic here
>>28097984
>fragments only penetrate to 4"-5"
>BBs fired from common multi pump BB guns penetrate 3.25"-3.75" into ballistics gel
Not really impressed.
>>28097885
Underpenetrates and fragments early, its the RIP round of .45 but without the constant shilling.
luckygunner(DAWT)(COM)45-acp-78-cd-liberty-ammunition-fhp-20-rounds#geltest
>>28097885
So it's basically a jhp .380 + P out of a m1911? sounds retarded
>>28098072
45 acp may not be the best candidate here. maybe 40? 9mm? 357?
>>28098070
Well, we can't shoot gorillas. But what we're getting at is bones and shit.
>>28097885
>>28097984
I have a strong suspicion that you made this thread to shill that video
>>28098091
if you wanna get super technical, you can pour that ballistics shit around a plaster skeleton mold and simulate it that way.
>>28098096
and no. that was the first thing I found when I typed it in youtube.
>>28098042
Its not supposed to be life like you tard. Its to easily compare rounds, not a 1-1 of effects in living tissues
>>28098083
Try .357 magnum if from an 8"+ barrel, .44 magnum, and 460 Rowland if you want it in a semi auto pistol. You aren't going to get enough energy for those fragments to penetrate deep enough without going with something quite a bit larger.
>>28098126
yea, this seems to be the general consensus here.
>>28098079
Lol yup, pretty much
>>28098104
>if you wanna get super technical, you can pour that ballistics shit around a plaster skeleton mold and simulate it that way.
Well, you can do anything. you can get a real human skeleton and put it in gel. My point is that they don't. That's why you can't put compare the results of these tests to what it would do in a real life situation.
>>28097885
The only decent use for this round is its 9mm AP properties. The 50gr goes fast enough out of a 4 inch barrel to zip through IIIa plates. It's poorfag AP basically.
>>28097885
-
Here is the news: you are all a bunch of little children and need to grow up.
>>28098118
impact cavity with civil defense 45 acp.
would not want.
>>28098144
>zip through IIIa plates
>IIIa plates
Kill yourself.
>>28098212
Also yes, I know there are IIIA plates, but these are beyond useless since a.) IIIA soft armor is a thing and b.) a number of handgun calibers will fuck its shit up without using meme ammo like this.
>>28098224
>yfw all the po po in my town use IIIa plates
And fine, but name a cartridge that isn't a meme or >$1 a shot that will be AP
>>28098598
7.62x25
>>28098618
Okay name a 7.62x25 handgun that is actually useful for modern combat/defense or anything really.
>>28097885
My company is the OEM manufacturer of these projectiles for Liberty Ammunition.
The hype is true about the rounds potential.
Btw, this bullet is made form a zinc/aluminum alloy, and we sell it to them for <$.04 a bullet.
Can post a some pics/webm of the manufacturing process if you all care.
>>28100769
I would love to see that anon
>>28100769
I really hope you are not trolling, because I would love to see that.
Is 4 cents a bullet cheap?
>>28100834
It's less than I have ever payed for cast lead bullets, he's full of shit.
>>28100802
>>28100834
Here is a picture of the wire. If I could do webm, I would show you the machinery that pumps these out.
4 cents is very cheap. I'm the largest OEM projectile manufacturer in the world currently.
Typical price from hornady for this bullet would be $.18+ to the OEM.
I produce over 8 million projectiles per day minimum.
Ask me anything else.
>>28100850
I'm the guy above.
One of my plants both die casts and gravity casts lead bullets. The cost to produce say 9mm 124 grain with lube is about $.016.
We buy 80k lbs of lead per month on the LME market, and own 30% of our smelter. All your cast bullet companies buy lead marked up from us, or buy pre-cast bullets from us and mark them up to you guys.
Ask me anything you want to know about making bullets. Attached is OC pics of some of the molds we make/use.
>>28097885
They're pretty effective for armor piercing, but wound/defensive potential probably not as desirable.
>>28100952
>>28100865
I remember you, you're the holier-than-thou asshole that supports restrictions on firearms.
>police approached me and told me to stop producing ARMOR PIERCING BOOLITS so I did
>muh cops
>muh too dangerous for ordinary citizens
FUCK YOU
>>28101136
lol rage more.
Co-incidentally, the non hollow point version of this bullet is the "AP" bullet that I decided not to make.
You know you can just stick a hardware nail in any bullet and make it AP? So why do you care if I make it readily available or not.
>>28101002
>They're pretty effective for armor piercing
>penetrate only an inch or two into clay after going through kevlar
>bullet unlikely to even make it past ribs
>if ballistic clay is anything like ballistics gelatin for penetration the bullet might end up just barely breaking the skin and not actually penetrating at all
You'd be better off using non expanding .22 short from an NAA mini revolver and shooting them basically anywhere else.
>>28101181
go fucking kill yourself nigger
>>28101227
Really hard to hear you over all this money being made.
>>28101181
Why did you decide not to make it? Do you hate money?
>>28101295
Also, was this "ap" version just the same bullet without the hollow point? How many grains?
>>28101295
>>28101311
See this post: >>28101286
I'm a fan of Money, but finally managed to make an alloy with temper that made it not so Armor Piercing.
You can actually find it at Academy under the brand DRT training ammo, and a few other OEM's sell it around the world.
Ask me anything else you want to know.
>>28101326
So are the AP qualities in MAC's testing video non-existant in the current ammunition being sold?
Or are those results what to expect, and the stuff you decided not to make that much more effective than what we've already seen? And why DID you not go
ahead with it? Moral choice, or were you given thinly veiled threats not to do it?
>>28101286
>putting high value bills in front of shitty old bills, making people think its all 100s.
I remember being 16 too. Not that much money :^)
>>28101326
What is the purpose of making a weaker alloy? Does liberty know you made this change?
>>28101435
Yes it was made this way on purpose. softer alloy and temper.
And no threats were made, it's a personal choice to avoid the trouble and a possible ban later when you're holding inventory.
>>28101447
Ya its a shitpost to reply to an above shitpost.
>>28101463
To reduce penetration, and increase fragmentation. And every OEM is told of all the mechanical properties of their custom made projectile along with changes.
Last few posts guys before I have to get going.
Ask your last best questions.
>>28098898
Tokarev
Just because its old doesnt mean it wont put you in the ground just the same.
Actually, I'd love to see a modern polymer handgun in 7.62tok that'd be breddy neat.
>>28097885
>78gr @ 1900fps
Or you could get pic related and do a 40 cal 135gr @ 1750 and have it not be a frangible round.
>>28098002
>When it comes to .45 though, theres no substitution for mass, thats what .45 does best.
220gr 40 cal at 1350fps
>>28102899
My .45 HPs are heavier than that.
>>28102982
35gr heavier but with 400+ ft/lbs less energy
>>28103025
Energy alone is a pretty shit way to measure effectiveness. I shouldn't have to type this.
>>28097885
Shit tier
>>28103025
But the post you quoted was talking mass, not energy.
fucking plebs
>>28103038
mass is even worse, especially when you're comparing 10gr or 35gr to 400 ft/lbs of extra energy in a handgun
>>28103044
ok, i just showed a similarly massive bullet in a 45 ACP conversion round. And chances are the bullets you're talking about are only 230gr rather than the 255gr hardcast ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr6h44Pu4sM
i give you less grains more FPS and IIIA penetrating, from 9mm
>>28103064
>255gr hardcast ones
WTF are you talking about?
>>28103134
was comparing underwood loads.
>>28097885
Why carry a 45acp if you are going to load it with 78 grain rounds?
>>28098068
also being translucent so you can see fucked up shit happen inside.
If we could selectively breed translucent pigs, then we would have the perfect medium!
>>28097885
>78 grains
>.45acp
Wait, what?
I thought the point of .45 was that you have heavy fat bullets to hit people.
Wouldn't a 78gr +P bullet work better in 9mm?
