carbines VS. SMGs
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
With carbine assault rifles available that are just as light and compact as most SMGs are, but firing a more powerful and accurate ammunition, what niche do SMGs serve these days?
>>28058472
>what niche do SMGs serve these days?
Looking sexy.
>>28058472
Suppressed work, extremely compact packages (machine pistol type deals with folding stocks Mac 10 style)
Really the MAC-10 is the prime example of what they're good for these days, a bit of firepower you can have broken down around your body, go to the bathroom, put on a big ass suppressor and extend the stock, wait for your "buddy" to take a piss and wax him.
In a military and law enforcement sense they'd become very limited, LE could argue less penetration but, let's face it, the risk of overpenetrating injury in relation to all the advantages you gain from a carbine isn't an issue. The carbine almost always wins out.
You can get absurdly light with SMGs that aren't straight blowback. The MP7 (not A1) is less than 3 lb, and the SR-2 is less than 4 lb. Pretty fuckin light. They're also easily used 1-handed, which is why Russia uses them with shields
Smgs work better for LE use since its rare to find someone sporting body armor and suppressors + less penetration is a plus
>all this dumb carbine vs smg highschool b8 bullshit
post mp5s
>>28059200
Hey I found the MP5 fanboy
>>28059205
>D00D MUH EFF PEE ESS
>MUH CARBEAN
>INDIANS AND ARROWS LOOOL!!!1
yes, smg's are outclassed by sbrs. Breaking fucking news.
You'll never shoot someone ever in your life. Grow up.
>>28059250
Neither will you. Grow up.
>Usually not as loud
>cheap ammo if in 9mm
>rifle caliber carbines lose velocity, pistol caliber rifles gain velocity
Pic related. My mom likes low recoiling guns so I let her shoot my Suomi.
>>28058668
>>28058571
>Believing the pistol rounds penetrate less than rifle rounds meme even though it's been proven wrong for decades.
Wish we could have normal pistol caliber carbines, instead of those long barrel/long stock bullshits.
Got the cx4 because it was the only decent looking long carbine.
>>28058472
lower caliber = less recoil = less spread
>>28058472
Intermediate rifle rounds perform like shit out of sub 10" barrels, wound ballistics are going to be similar to handgun ammunition and all the extra energy that those rifle rounds would normally have is converted into ridiculous muzzle flash and a ton of noise. After that, SMGs can be made lighter than a carbine if you design them to use an action other than straight blowback and depending on the cartridge you will also end up with less felt recoil than a carbine with a comparable action. Though if one decides to go with a straight blowback mechanism then the SMG can be a lot cheaper to manufacture than carbine due to how much simpler a straight blowback action is. Despite what people claim, not many people are building AKMs from scratch (without a parts kit where all of the more complex parts are already made for them) in their workshop, people are building SMGs. It should also be noted that subsonic rifle ammunition generally has comparable wound ballistics to pistol ammunition and only has the advantages of being usable in already available guns and a flatter trajectory (which really only comes into play if one is shooting past 100 yards).
>>28058571
If you actually believe pistol calibers don't over penetrate you are a retard that needs to fuck off.
>>28061902
5.56 does, yes. 7.62x39 suffers less from a short barrel, and .300 blackout was designed for them. Just like everything else, the technology has evolved. I love my MP5 clone but I would never pretend that it's as capable as my short barreled AK.
>>28059370
He clearly isn't worried about MAXIMUM COMBAT POTENTIAL, you blockhead.
>>28061968
Show me evidence of .300 AAC Blackout ammunition that isn't $2+ a round machined copper bullshit and doesn't just expand to a comparable size to bullets fired from a handgun. I've seen ballistics gel tests of .300 AAC Blackout from a short barrel and I have yet to be anything other than disappointed by how it doesn't actually live up to the claims I've read about it.
>as my short barreled AK.
You aren't going to see many AK pistols with barrels under 10", as when you get past that point you start needing something to fill the space at the back of the receiver to keep the bolt carrier from jumping off the rails (see the Mini Draco).
>>28061925
>.45
>penetration issues
lolno, D-boys are known for using .45 in hostage situations (grease guns and 1911s) exactly for the under penetration compared to 9x19mm.
>that info graphic
Holy edit batman
>>28062019
Retard; case 1.
>>28062016
>I've seen ballistics gel tests of .300 AAC Blackout from a short barrel and I have yet to be anything other than disappointed by how it doesn't actually live up to the claims I've read about it.
Not that guy but I'll tell you right now the only claim .300AAC has is being an expensive way to retain 7.62x39mm levels of ballistics out of a relatively short barrel running SUPPRESSED - you don't get that effect when not using the correct load through a can. When ever people on this site post unsuppressed .300AAC ARs I just fucking laughed while scrolling past.
>>28062023
underloaded .45 ball is king of hostage situations, the fuck are you on about?
>>28061925
Has anyone ever tested how well 5.56 fragments when hitting drywall if it's fired from a shorter barrel? If I remember correctly those tests were generally performed with 16"-20" barrels and 5.56 loses quit a bit of velocity when going to 14.5" and 10" barrels.
>>28062031
>the only claim .300AAC has is being an expensive way to retain 7.62x39mm levels of ballistics out of a relatively short barrel running SUPPRESSED
Um, how much inexpensive 7.62x39mm subsonic ammunition is actually on the market for you to be able to make that claim?
>>28062043
>underloaded
>>28062016
My apologies, my statement was actually in reference to
>Intermediate rifle rounds perform like shit out of sub 10" barrels
I was not attempting to compare intermediate rifle rounds to pistol rounds, just pointing out that some rifle rounds do better out of a short barrel than others.
>>28060207
Would some care to explain why this CBJ appears to have a bipod?
>>28062978
Cause it has a standard bipod attachment.
They want it to be able to replace Light Support Weapons since its effective range is quite good for its class and it offers twice the amount of ammo carried compared to 5,56.
>>28063168
Who's hair-brained idea was this?
>>28058472
pistol rounds are cheaper, that's all I can think of
>>28063168
this is illogical...
>>28063193
Swedish arms company. It's the future, man
>>28063193
>>28063292
It was just a demo/trial firearm for the CBJ-MS ammunition, they have said that the gun itself was primarily not meant to be adopted or sold to anyone. In case you don't know the CBJ fires sabot type tungsten rounds which makes for some nasty velocity and penetration power for its little size. Basically 5,56 attempt two, where they tried to up the velocity and reduce size again.
So about the firearm itself.
They needed a demo firearm to demonstrate how well the cartridge performs as well as a contribution for the personal firearms program for the SAF who wanted to experiment with SMGs for tank crews, SF, non combat personnel etc. It was was gonna be research trials anyway so they gave it a optional bipod for the sake of it. See how it performs and how well it is received and then go from there.
I don't have the offical results but from what I have gathered around the web the main reason the cartridge as well as the firearm platform did not get favored since the need for an all out armor piercing SMG is not present today. SAF, as well as many other nations armies around the world rarely engage opponents with body armor on them. Ultimately they settled for a PDW 5,56 carbine version of the AK5. It does provide a good option for a PDW for non-combat personnel, its not complex to use and the recoil is quite manageable (the bipod makes it accurate even in full auto mode, you can easily mow down standing and sitting targets at 100m that way). The extra magazine storage makes it more plausible to take your combat vest/belt off when you still need to carry your firearm with you.
As for the high cap magazine / bipod light support weapon role, it did not do too well. Belt fed ammo is still favored and the need for firepower (range, material destruction, cover penetration etc) is something that it severely lacks compared to the typical platforms in this category.
>>28058571
>wait for your "buddy" to take a piss and wax him
are we talking about hair removal?
>>28058571
>not waxing him at his apartment
>not putting on the suppressor then leaving it on the counter as you go to take a shit
What could go wrong?
>>28063554
>I don't have the offical results but from what I have gathered around the web the main reason the cartridge as well as the firearm platform did not get favored since the need for an all out armor piercing SMG is not present today.
The problem is that while the ammunition could penetrate SAPI plates and other armor designed to stop non AP rifle ammunition, it couldn't penetrate ESAPI plates or other comparable levels of protection that were already common at the time. There's also the problem of the ammo costing a few dollars per round (estimate from the price of the already existing tungsten carbide core M995 5.56 that uses the same amount of tungsten carbide, the M993 7.62, and the 7.62 M948 SLAP that uses the same concept but larger).
>>28058472
>what niche do SMGs serve these days?
Being absolute sex, which is more than enough.
The MP5 is the best looking gun in the world.
>>28061496
Son you dumb
>>28063193
hare-brained*
>>28061727
Daily reminder that if /k/ stole FDR's corpse it would be the greatest day ever
>>28060129
I would love to taste your mom's shit hole
>>28062978
So I can use it for stability when me and jamal are on a gangbang driveby longdick style.
>>28058472
Less risk of richochets in cramped spaces, less likelihood of over penetration in crowded areas, more controllable in FA, quieter so you won't go blind/deaf shooting one indoors.
>>28068034
