Hello, /int/
I've made a Nolan Chart on all 42 candidates running, or expected to run for the French Presidency that will occur in April 2017.
Well, I guess you can understand what's written, but I'll translate you anyways: Up, it's the progressists candidates, Down, it's the conservatives. Left, it's the commies, right, it's the liberals.
The ones with a star are the eurosceptics
I'm studying Law in the best french Law school, and the chart has been approved by another french forum. So it should be pretty accurate.
Any question?
>>57647028
Colors = the candidate's party color. Some have the same color, but belong to different parties.
The grey ones are the independent candidates.
Source: http://www.lejdd.fr/Politique/Presidentielle-2017-qui-sont-les-candidats-officiels-et-officieux-779949 . I've added Lagarde and Veron, they forgot to mention them.
S.Guyot is the candidate for the "Blank vote". People vote for him if they are unsatisfied with the other ones. He litterally has no other program so I put him as a centrist.
He's the only one I couldn't classify.
Well, I thought someone would give a fuck about this
>>57647028
Qui sont ces gens qui apparaissent en dessous de le pen dans l'axe progressiste-conservateur? Jamais entendu parlé mais je suis intrigué du coup.
>>57647683
/int/ c'est pour se plaindre des cucks et de comment la gauche (définition anglosaxonne) va détruire l'occident. Maintenant, tu le sais.
>A. Veron
I am scared to know what are the projects of this person.
LESQUEN
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S
Q
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>>57648197
Saforcada est un no-name dont personne n'entend parler, c'est normal.
C'est un Bonapartiste, qui souhaite remettre sur le trone de france un empereur de la lignee de Napoleon. Forcement, il est tres conservateur mais sans forcement etre extremiste.
Il veut quand meme virer les non-blancs de france
Carl Lang est un peu connu, si on s'interesse un tant soit peu a la politique francaise. C'est un ancien FNiste, suivant la ligne Jean-Marie Le Pen. Il jugeait que le FN prenait une tournure gauchiste et moins autoritaire.
C'est le dirigeant du Parti de la France, le principal parti de l'extreme-droite "dure" en France.
C'est juste un c/c de Jean-Marie, forcement plus radical que sa fille.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_de_la_France
Quand a Lesquen, c'est un independant qui commence a se faire connaitre. C'est un ultraliberal-ultraconservateur ouvertement raciste, qui qualifie Obama de "negre bon a rien". Il traite aussi Marine de "gauchiste aimant se tremousser sur de la musique negre"
A savoir que c'est une personnalite plutot connue dans les Hauts-De-Seine, et qu'il obtient des scores plutot importants a chaque election la-bas.
Son programme est assez tordant, jettes-y un coup d'oeil: https://lesquen2017.com/le-programme/
>>57648197
>>57648476
Ah attends, c'est pas le bon lien
>>57648197
En fait si, il a juste modifie quelques phrases de son programme. Ca reste quand meme sympa a lire.
>>57648299
He's basically a libertarian. He wants to privatize everything but the police and the army.
He's also pro-all: abortion at any month, drugs, guns.
He's also a pro-democracy: he wants to replace our upper parliament (the Senate) with a room of citizens chosen randomly
Surprizingly, he never mentions immigration. He's not against it, without being a cuck
>>57648476
>C'est un ultraliberal-ultraconservateur ouvertement raciste, qui qualifie Obama de "negre bon a rien". Il traite aussi Marine de "gauchiste aimant se tremousser sur de la musique negre"
Ah oui, c'est pas lui qui veut nous annexer si il gagne?
>>57648845
https://twitter.com/Lesquen2017/status/716654775606112257
Si, mais "pacifiquement"
Un grand homme ce Lesquen
>>57647028
Define these before
Communist
Progressive
Liberal
Conservative
what is their context
>>57648476
Anti Islam, Anti Judaisme...
J'aime.
>>57649056
>@aplusouslebus : juste la Wallonie ou la Belgique entière ?
>@Lesquen2017 : Toute la Belgique.
Ah oui, quand même.
Bon, vouloir juste la Wallonie, ça aurait été un peu maso aussi.
Eh bien, sur ces bonnes paroles, je vais me coucher. Bonne nuit, ami français. :)
>>57649180
>>57648476
Pls tell me what the context for the axises on the chart are my French isn't good enough to fully understand what you are saying
>>57649180
Communist: Left-Wing economical policy
Liberal: Right-Wing economical policy
Progressist: Left-Wing social policy
Conservative: Right-wing social policy
The most Communist party in France is Lutte Ouvriere (Worker's Struggle) with Nathalie Arthaud.
They want a pure commie state, but progressist instead of conservative like USSR or Cuba.
They also are pro-democracy, and spit on URRS for being a dictatorship.
Their supporters are often anarchist students that want to fuck everything up and invite as many refugees as possible in France
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutte_ouvri%C3%A8re
The most Conservative candidate is Henry de Lesquen, who wants to annex Belgium, set a death penalty for homosexuals, get the "niggers" out of France.
The most progressive/liberal candidate is Aurelien Veron with the Parti Liberal Democrate.
He's basically a libertarian
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_lib%C3%A9ral_d%C3%A9mocrate_(France)
Arthaud might get 1 to 2% of the votes.
The other ones won't ever get a %.
>>57649419
(Pas lui)
DOIS...REFORMER...EMPIRE...CAROLINGIEN....!!!!
Bonne nuit, citoyen...futur...citoyen...
>>57648476
>mfw I agree with most of his program
>>57649483
So if I follow your chart correctly Le Pen and her boys are commies?
can you circle the candidates that actually have a chance/name them? I would like to do some research on them as I find France to be pretty interesting.
>>57649626
The more you are on the commie side, the more you tend to be commie.
Marine Le Pen wants to increase the minimal wage to 1.800e/month, to take the retirment age to 60 years, and all her economical program is pretty much the same than the main radical left party's one
>>57649819
Do they only get support because of FN being Euroskeptic and anti-immigrant
>>57649626
>>57649886
Well, there are not "commies", but they are left wing economically. Protectionism, protection of the workers above all, nationalisation of some industries, etc.
They are nationalist and socialist at the same time :^)
Yeah, they get support mainly because of anti-immigration sentiment, also because people are tired of "mainstream" politicians. But their left wing economic program means that they more or less took the working class vote from the socialists and communists.
I put a black line under the names of the candidates that might have a decent shot. You will notice that there are no left wing candidate, but that's because no big leftist candidate had announced their candidature.
>>57650095
>A nationalist socialist
>soap.jpg
I am aware that Sarkozy was president before, was he good or did he lose for a reason
>>57649626
>can you circle the candidates that actually have a chance/name them?
Holland (the current President) from Parti Socialiste (don't let the name fool you, PS are neo-liberl sell-outs), and Sarkozy who is a former President is running on the Republican (conservative) platform.
>>57649626
>>57649819
The Presidential election is a two-round system.
The parties that might have a chance to pass are:
- Le "Front National" (National Front) with Marine Le Pen - Main far-right party
- Les Republicains (The Republicans). The candidate will be chosen via a primary soon - main Right-wing party
- Le Parti Socialiste (Socialist Party), probably with Francois Hollande - Main centre-left party
- Le Mouvement Democrate (Democratic Movement) with Francois Bayrou - Main centric party
- Le Front de Gauche (Left Front), supporting Jean-Luc Melenchon. - Main Radical-left party
The Republican primary winner will be probably either:
- Alain Juppe, a moderate & liberal (38%)
- Nicolas Sarkozy, a radical conservative (27%)
- Bruno Le Maire, a moderate (17%)
- Francois Fillon, a radical liberal (8%)
Frenchies are tired of Hollande. There is only a very few chances he will pass the 1st round.
Menelchon is too radical to seuduce the frenchies. France never elected a radical left candidate, and it won't happen soon.
Bayrou won't run if Juppe is chosen as the Republican candidate, and it probably will be the case.
All the polls are clearly telling since 1 to 2 years the 2nd round will be opposing Juppe to Le Pen, and Juppe will win with a large majority. That's probably what will happen
>>57650095
>French politicians are mostly economically liberal
>75% income tax
Ye, no, Pierre.
>>57650095
OP here. I'll have to disagree with you.
J.F Cope has no chance of winning the presidential elections. Bruno Le Maire and Francois Fillon do.
You can also underline Hollande and Bayrou
>>57647028
>Marine Le Pin est communiste
vraiment?
I know she's supposedly a populist, but I didn't picture her a "communist".
Je suppose que le mot est utilisé bien différemment....
>>57650523
Imagine if Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn both molded together. That's Marine Le Pen
>>57650523
Her economical program is close to Sander's. Except she doesn't want to tax the wealthies.
She has a shitton of irrealistic propositions, such as bringing the minimal wage to 1,800 a month (currently 1,100), downing the retirment age to 60 years, reinject billions in the army, schools, police, and tons of retarded things like this
>>57650613
This
>>57650613
>A god and a faggot had a baby
merde
>>57650613
>UKIP et Labour ont d'une fille.
Ah... Mais, je connais pas la France.. Si cela est vrai, je me demande qui est le meillier candidat...
>>57650816
There is none.
Fuck france. As soon as I graduate my buisness school, I suck some dicks to move to America
>>57650752
This is probably a stupid question but is there any pro-gun candidate (relative to France, I realize any pro-gun Euro is likely heavily anti-gun here). I am just interested in how such a position is received in Europe
also what the fuck does meillier mean in this >>57650816
post, my french is poor and I can't find its meaning
>>57650752
>economical program is close to Sander's.
Je suis très desolé. Ton pays est mort... J'ai aimée toujours la France! Pourquoi avez-vous détruit??
>>57650972
>meillier
"best"
I dunno I might have mispelled it. Je suis acadien... On ne parle pas bien...
>>57650240
Well, personally I think Sarkozy is probably one of the slimiest, most disgusting politician in the country. In 2007 he ran on a program of toughness on crime, but also he heavily emphasized his immigrant background, as political stunt to bring leftists to vote for him. He tried to create "discrimination positive", basically affirmative action, which was deemed unconstitutional and eventually dropped and never talked about again.
Basically he will say anything to get to power.
Now that he noticed the rise of the far right, he's been trying to steal votes from the FN, and is failing at it.
To me it seems like he wasn't a good president, but to be fair he had to deal with the 2008 crisis. And I only started really paying attention to politics a few years ago.
>>57650383
Francois Fillon and Bruno Le Maire are at 10% in the Republican primary. They have no chance. Didn't even know Bayrou was still alive.
And Hollande ? Seriously ? Leftists hate him because he's not left enough, the Right hate him because he is too much of a leftist. The only times his popularity goes up is when he deals pretty well with terrorist attacks.
>>57650752
>>57650865
If you hate France so much, you're welcome to go away anytime, faggot.
>>57650972
He means "meilleur", the best.
>>57650972
>This is probably a stupid question but is there any pro-gun candidate
Yes that is a stupid question. There is no """pro-gun""" candidate in France mainly because France is a civilized country that doesn't allow or think it's normal for mentally ill teens to walk in and buy machine guns and assault rifles with high-capacity clips.
>>57650972
>>57651061
I did. it's spelled "meilleur"
On parle plus que on écrit
>>57651061
J'etudie français por six mois, mon français est trés trés trés mal
>>57651160
thanks
>>57651172
>this edge and complete and utter lack of knowledge
jeez are you from San Fran or something
>>57650972
The only openly pro-gun candidate are Henry de Lesquen (bottom left on the chart) and Aurélien Véron (bottom right)
Nobody speaks or think about it. There isn't any country allowing guns in Europe.
It just isn't a European thing. We never did have a debate on the subject, and I think almost all of the french people don't want to have one
Anon mispelled the word meilleur =better
>>57651277
thats fair
also thanks for the translation, I am still just starting to learn
Smati and Boudjekada look like the only Muslim names on the graph (though I could be wrong), are either one of them interesting?
Guessing most of the voters fall in line with the mainstream left parties
>>57651363
based off past results they are pretty even split and swing very little with the occasional sweep in the final election a la us currently
>>57651160
Hollande will probably be the PS candidate. I'm not saying he will pass the 2nd round, I'm saying he has a chance of winning the presidency.
People from EELV or DLF won't have a chance.
François Fillon and Le Maire are not at 10%, and the polls are unstable. Copé is at 3% currently.
I'm sorry to tell you that, but it doesn't seem that you know a lot about the french politics
>>57651244
>mon français est trés trés trés mal
et moi auissi! Et c'est pas ma primière langue! Malheureusement, le français est peu fréquent dans Louisiane, mais c'est notre langue.
>>57651277
I meant bottom right and upper right. My bad
>>57651363
None of them are known.
Smati is slightly, slightly known. He's a buisnessman that just launched a very discreete campaign. He's a moderate and express himself clearly during debates.
If he manages to run as a candidate, which could happen, he could do 0,5% at the best
>>57650095
So can someone clarify "communiste" vs "liberal" for me more?
Dans Amerique, évidemment, les mots sont faux. Est-ce "libéral" signifie "individualiste"? Dans Amerique, ceux qui sont opposés.
>>57651363
And Boudjekada isn't known at all, even by the most interested politists.
He's just a young guy with absolutely no program that just wants to play with the fact that he's a muslim to get some votes. He's not religious.
Smati never mentions his religion though.
We don't have any muslim party in france. Only a movment that lasted the time of an election, and that had just the word "Muslim" in it, but wasn't religious at all
>>57651622
It's simple: from left to right is the economical position
From up to down is the social position.
If a candidate tend to be a commie, he is more left-winged on the economy. If he tend to be a liberal, he is more right-winged on the economy
Have their been any debates or coverage of the election so far. Would like to see some vids (with english subtitles pls.)
>>57651443
T'habite Louisiane?
J'etudie français parce que (not sure if the past two words are correct) dans mon église il y a beaucoup immigrés français et mon famille est trés français.
kek I had to get out my notebook for a couple of these words, I really have to study French more
>>57651622
Communist means left liberal means right
Liberal generally means Classical Liberal (think Tea Party with less religious nuts) in places that aren't the US, the Democrats have distorted its meaning here (they are social liberals, which is basically socialism lite with all the SWEDEN YES social policies and center-right economic policies)
>>57651622
Liberal economics is free market, deregulation, tax cut, small government kind of stuff. Out of our primary presidential candidates, if you put them on that x-axis, Sanders would be the leftmost and a Rand Paul would probably be the rightmost
>>57651172
Please tell me you're trolling.
>>57651277
>I think almost all of the french people don't want to have one
If I was American, I think I would like to have guns. And train me and my family to use them, and properly take care of them. In France, though ? I think only hunters want them. You're right, we just don't have a gun culture.
>>57651363
>mainstream left parties
Yeah, probably not. Pic related. The second round will probably be Right vs Far right.
>>57651750
Not yet. It's starting slowly.
You will have to wait 6 to 8 month before the elections. Currently, they will be held in a year (April 2017)
>>57651801
>Right v Far Right
This brings me a question, how far right would the GOP be considered in France (In general, its political orientation differs by region here)
Are there any Legitimist candidates?
>>57651659
And I'm guessing most of the Muslim voters go for PS?
I assume french politics doesn't have quite the same kind of autistic "he needs 70% of the Hispanics in North Carolina" demographic hyperfocus as ours does
>>57651940
Well our politics are really weird because they are entirely based on demographic turnout, I am not aware of a similar situation in another country
>>57651779
>>57651723
Merci beacoup!
In that case, je suppose que je préfère Juppe ou Le Maire..?
>>57651773
oui! J'habite dans "Acadiana". On a des mouvements pour encourager plus le français en l'economie, mais Bàton-Rouge nous arrête... Je pense que c'est car ils ne parlent pas le français comme Nouvelle-Orléans et Acadiana...
>>57651773
Wait, I don't get how you guys don't get it.
In the US, for you, Left Wing (Democrats) = more Commie and Progressist, Right Wing (Republicans) = More Liberal and conservative, right?
Now, how do you classify a Liberal-Progressist? Or a Commie-Conservative?
In which party would go a candidate like sanders, but pro-life, anti-immigration?
That's what the chart is for
>>57651940
>I assume french politics doesn't have quite the same kind of autistic "he needs 70% of the Hispanics in North Carolina" demographic hyperfocus as ours does
That mainly has to do with our retarded electoral college.
>>57651865
Depends of the candidates.
Trump would probably go to jail.
Cruz would be a far-far rightist that no one would take seriously
>>57651801
>Brétagne, la pays où vivent mes ancêtres, a voté à la gauche...
Please tell me your left isn't as bad as our left... give me some hope for my long-lost cousins...
>>57651990
>Left Wing (Democrats) = more Commie and Progressist
>>57651908
Saforcadia is a Bonapartist. But he isn't known at all.
The Alliance Royale is the main legitimist party, but they are barely known, and they fail to get a candidate every time.
>>57651940
They use to vote for the PS.
Now they vote for Melenchon (radical left), or Le Pen.
Le Pen is not anti-muslim, she only is anti-immigration.
>>57651940
Lmao no, no candidate focus on a single region/department, then pass to the other. All the candidates speak to the nation rather than to a region or something.
Remember, we're not a federation
>>57652118
I mean, they tend to be communist and progressists rather than liberals and conservatives
>>57651990
>In which party would you go for candidate like Sanders, but pro-life and anti-immigration
the party that doesn't exist.
You're forgetting that America contains 2 parties, and they're destroyed the possibility of ever getting more.
That's one of the reasons I like French politics; you can have a political party for anything. And coalitions make more sense.
Now I'm going to sleep
>>57652273
>I mean, they tend to be communist and progressists rather than liberals and conservatives
>>57652299
No. There are almost no coalition in france, and there isn't a party for everything unfortunately.
We and UK (and Romania) have a majoritary vote rather than a proportionnal, like in all other EU countries.
We only have 2 main parties in our parliament because of it.
All the candidates you see on the chart are perfectly aware that they won't ever, ever get a chance to pass if they are not from one of the main 3 parties (Ps, Lr, Fn)
>>57651436
>Hollande will probably be the PS candidate
Sure. But that would be suicide for the PS.
>I'm not saying he will pass the 2nd round, I'm saying he has a chance of winning the presidency.
So you were asking for all the people that might go to the first round ? Because to me "having a chance" means capable of going to the second round.
>People from EELV or DLF won't have a chance.
Of course they don't. Who was that Ecologist guy who said the the Green party was only the party "of Palestine and gypsies nowadays" ?
>François Fillon and Le Maire are not at 10%, and the polls are unstable
Yes they are. And the polls seem pretty stable to me, the only thing changing is Sarkozy vs Juppé. But I fucked up by putting a line under Copé, I'm not sure why I thought he was more popular. Guess all the media fuss around his new book recently made me think that.
>>57651865
Cruz would be considered a religious nutjob (remember, we are very very secular nation), Trump even more far right than Le Pen. The average cuckservative, though, I don't know. Our right wing is not as right wing economically as yours. And our far right is left economically, and right on social issues.
>>57651940
They used to vote PS, every time. But it's changing, now they go further farther left.
>>57652093
They are slightly less into identity politics, mostly because it's only starting to be a thing here. Other than that, they are social democrats, like Sanders. Brittany voted left because there are less Muslims there.
>>57652299
>America contains 2 parties, and they're destroyed the possibility of ever getting more.
And then you have Trump who is clearly a third party by himself using the Republican primary as a stage. And that's why he's doing so well.
>>57652299
>>57652474
Because of this system for example, the FN gets 30% at every election in the first round, then gets fucked by the opponent.
You can see on the picture i posted the number of deputies they have: 2
>>57651990
Any chart that is similar to yours always shows both our parties are far up and to the right despite that being blatantly not true
Its really hard to express and I had a much longer post that was hard to follow, so I will sum it up:
Democrats encapsule the left, socially left economic center (this varies more, Bernie is hard left for us while Clinton is less so), Bernie is a madman who is SWEDEN YES tier and retarded, Clinton is more moderate but a liar, criminal and insane who only has a chance because of her vagina. They have some core beliefs that are rarely strayed from like being anti-gun, this party has a great deal of control over itself due to mechanisms such as Superdelegates
The Republicans are generally more socially conservative (this is strayed from very often in the Northeast and West) and economically conservative. It is very fractured with many factions such as the Tea Party (Very Religious and very very Classically Liberal guys) Populist/Trumpists (Trump) and Establishment (Neocon Bushist guys). Less control over their own party, again core beliefs like (I will use the opposite to the democrat) pro-gun
>Liberal-Progressit
based off what your chart implies this, they would most likely be Democrat unless you mean libertarian in which case they would be Republican (Unless they are some SJW NO BORDERS shit)
>Commie Conservative
they would never gain any traction whatsoever and would probably be rejected from both parties
Also instead of Progressit please use Social Liberal
Instead of Communiste use Economic Liberal
Instead of Liberal use Economic Conservative
Instead of Conserateur use Social Conservative
Because the original words mean something VERY different here than in France and its is very hard to properly wrap my head around what you are talking about.
>>57648344
this desu
who's the lad by the way
>>57652477
Trump is doing so well because he is a populist
Bernie is also a populist which is why he is doing even remotely well
both are idiots that have absolutely no substance to their policies and will never go beyond their stupid slogans
>>57652688
Who are you voting for then ? Hillary who should be in prison, or the slimy televangelist ?
>>57649483
based Lesquen
>>57652759
not >>57652688 but I voted for Bernie during my states' caucus (he won by a large margin).
>>57652474
>au moins ils peuvent entrer dans la Assemblée Nationale
If you're not "Republican" or "Democrat", you don't exist. At all.
>>57652299
America has two parties because of its system not because of the party's actions
the current parties have lasted so long however because they have made it harder for a party to usurp them, but the parties have still effectively changed and are only still the same as the original in name
>>57652759
Hillary is a criminal and an untrustworthy liar who is also insane
Ted is slimy but I like many of his policies, (due to me being raised near NYC I am very ambivalent about social issues despite me being very Republican, him being very socially conservative doesn't bother me), I will probably vote for him. I am in New York. He also has the best ability to win out of the 3 Republicans left imo
I would vote for Kasich but him winning would endanger the party's stability, infuriating 80% of its voters is not a good strategy, Romney proved that even with all the independents you can still lose horribly
>>57652861
there are many power regional parties
>>57652909
>>57652759
I am going to clarify that by "I am very ambivalent on social issues" I mean weed/abortion and similar issues that I just don't care about. I am very pro-gun and believe we need to secure our border however Trump's wall is retarded. I am also very anti-PC and if Trump did a good thing it was bring that into the spotlight
>>57652477
Trump is a populist. And there hasn't been a "right wing" populist since Andrew Jackson. He's popular because he's showing exactly how corrupt the system is. If he does make a third party, then the least liked candidate (clinton) will get 100% of the power. First past the post sucks
>Brittany voted left because there are less Muslims there.
Ah.. Mais, I'm still biased toward them... Merde, j'ai d'une drapeau de brétagne sur mon mur maintenant.
>>57652759
pas le mème anon, mais je vais voter pour Trump, si je vote du tout. Il n'est pas le meilluer, mais il vaut mieux que la criminelle
>>57652909
>America has two parties because of its system not because of the party's actions
Je sais... J'ai jamais dit différemment
>>57650752
>downing the retirment age to 60 year
>unrealistic
sigh
>>57653147
>downing the retirement age to 60 years isn't unrealistic
vraiment?? Vous avez assez de jeunes pour soutenir plus de retraités? That'd be deadly to most western nations.
>>57653138
You said they destroyed the possibility of getting more, that is false there was never a possibility of more for more than an election or two
tu parle anglais s'ill vous plait, répondre en français est trés dificil
>>57653138
>>57653266
*parler en français est trés mal
>>57653266
Ah, I'll try to respond to you in english, then...
when I said "they" i didn't mean the parties themselves. I meant the fact that FPTP nearly always leads to a two-party system.
https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
>skip to 5:00 for relevant explanation
>>57651865
you can hardly compare since our countries have very different issues, but being "pro-life" and pro guns in France pretty much garanties you a spot in the far right, although no one seriously brings those issues. French far right tends to be anti-capitalist also.
>>57653422
I understand our system very well, I have seen that video a while ago
>>57653422
>>57653483
I'm going to add that I find that guy's explanations on electoral systems very obnoxious because he really really like direct democracy despite it being shit for countries larger/more powerful than switzerland
>>57653444
>extrème droite est anti-capitaliste
quoi?!
>anti-avortement est "extrème droite"
c'est pleine de merde! Je comprends "pro-gun", mais pas "pro-life"! En fait, one of the greatest pro-lifers was a french doctor!
>>57653542
holy shit my english is as bad as my french today
>>57653227
retirement age was 60 years old 4 years ago. Lowering it even further could be sustainable if the productivity gains went into the social security system instead than Panama.
LE PEN
E
P
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N
>>57653483
>>57653542
I didn't mean to imply that you didn't, nor that you should like his explanation. But he isn't entirely wrong on how the system tends to work. Third parties do nothing but ensure the election to the opposing party.
>Woodrow Wilson
>>57653624
J'habite pas dans France, alors je connais pas exactement. Mais je sais que le taux de fécondité est insoutenable dans plus d'Europe et d'Amerique. France n'a pas à mal que d'Amerique, mais je pense que c'est 2.0? Il doit être 2.1.
>>57653566
>extrème droite est anti-capitaliste
People have been saying for the entire thread that the far right here is left wing economically.
They are closer to national socialism/fascism, though obviously not there yet. What is hard to understand ?
>>57653775
France is at 2.08. Considering 40% of newborns have at least one immigrant granparents, the French people are not the ones reproducing. But the FN wants to implement natalist policies
>>57653775
>J'habite pas dans France, alors je connais pas exactement. Mais je sais que le taux de fécondité est insoutenable dans plus d'Europe et d'Amerique. France n'a pas à mal que d'Amerique, mais je pense que c'est 2.0? Il doit être 2.1.
La fécondité n'est pas un problème quand la productivité d'un travailleur est des dizaines de fois supérieurs à ce qu'elle était il y a des décennies. Le modèle français consistant à aller vers toujours moins de travail pourrait fonctionner, s'il n'était pas parasité par les plus riches.
>>57653775
long story short, the french far right was built on royalism, then anti-parlementarism, not economics.
Our political divisions are for the most part direct heritage of the revolution
>>57653885
>far right here is left wing economically
Alors est-ce l'extrême gauche qui est droite sur le plan économique? Ou est-ce qu'il ya quelqu'un qui est d'extrême droite économique?
>France est à 2.08
In that case, nevermind. Le nombre exact est 2.07. Je suis impressionné!
>Le modèle français consistant à aller vers toujours moins de travail pourrait fonctionner
Mais ce ne serait pas aider quand tout le monde reçoit des pensions.
>>57654112
Après aujourd'hui, je ne sais pas ce que je serais dans France...
>>57653080
>Andrew Jackson
America's best President, to be honest. If Trump has much in common with Jackson then all the better.
>>57654171
>Mais ce ne serait pas aider quand tout le monde reçoit des pensions.
Ça c'est une position idéologique. Personnellement je n'ai rien contre le fait que l'état redistribue.
To go a little bit further in the history course, the french left and right were born on the vote for Louis the XVIth execution, the left being yes voters, the right behing "no" voters.
>>57654348
Thats a huge gamble with a shoddy payoff
>>57654348
>if Trump has much in common with Jackson then all the better.
mais, voyons voir:
>national celebrity fame prior to candidacy
>decided to run with major populist backing for the conservative side
>was criticized for an unruly savage by opposition
>his very existence was enough to strike fear into the hearts of the establishment
>backing was based on the "voice of the people"
>had the nomination stolen from him by establishment in a contested convention
>ran as a third party and their party lost
>it was then revealed how corrupt the selection process was and he won in a landslide the next election
...yup sounds like Trump in the next few months
>>57654534
>personnellement je n'ai rien contre le fait que l'état redistribue.
oui, je suis d'accord. mais aussi, je voudrais être en mesure de se le permettre... Maintenant, les personnes de plus de 65 sont sur 13% de notre population. On ne peut pas acheter leur pensions.
C'est impressionant que France peut.
>>57654690
>On ne peut pas acheter leur pensions.
sure you can, through more taxes.
>>57654997
Mais, à quelle hauteur sont vos impôts maintenant? Je suis d'accord avec l'augmentation des impôts, mais seul s'il la charge est raisonnable..
Et est-il une meilleure façon? Peut-être pas... Peut-être je suis traditionaliste car je voulais l'église pour aider plus le pauvre.
I hope you don't think I'm arguing with you... I mostly agree with you, but I just have a bit of distrust for government. Je connais que ton goveurment est peut-être moins corrompu que le mien.. mais aucun gouvernement est parfait.
Avez-vous les "libertarians" dans France?
>>57655413
tout ça c'est théorique, notre modèle social est sérieusement compromis en ce moment, et il y a un y une grande exaspération envers la classe politique, que ce soit à droite ou à gauche.
Je ne connais pas la définition exacte du libertarianisme, mais je ne crois pas que ce soit un courant majeur ici. Il y a peut être quelques représentants, mais ça ne mobilise pas les foules, c'est assimilé à la droite libérale. (dans le sens libéral économiquement, "libéral" en France ne veut jamais dire "de gauche")
>>57655798
>"libéral" en France ne veut jamais dire "de gauche"
ouais. c'etait le gauche dans amerique qui volé ce mot.
"libertarianism" est notre mot pour "minarchisme", bien que peut-être pas aussi extrême... c'est les partisans qui preferent le gouvernement très petit.
Le politique dans France me intéresser toujours. Mais c'est triste qu'il n'y a pas beacoup comme moi. Si je viens à France un jour, je serais étranger dans la pays qui ma famille est originaire de.
>>57656275
if you are discussing American libertarians they are basically anarchists
>>57656644
sort of. libertarians don't advocate for the abolishment of the government (comme les anarchistes), just the reduction of it. American libertarians are more akin to minarchists than anarchists. only the idealists or the edgy go to strict anarcho-capitalism.
>I say this despite the fact that as an idealist, I support anarcho-capitalism
>but as a person with at least half a brain, I'm willing to compromise minarchism
>>57656863
Its still retarded regardless
>inb4 what about roads
