I'm very interested in Israel. What is the role of European, i.e. Ashkenazi Jews in this country? Are they WE WUZ EUROPEAN ELITE N SHEEEIT tier or are they actually still influential?
What do Jews think of Europe, my country in particular? Of course there was the Third Reich, but prior to that, Germany had a flourishing Jewish community, and Yiddish is undoubtedly heavily influenced by the German language. Is it still spoken or is it all Hebrew these days?
Do any of you ever consider coming back?
Have a courtesy Wojack for your troubles.
I think there are jewish communities in UK and France where you see a bunch of jews walking around. We have some in Sweden but it's rare to see them look very jewish.
In Sweden they're scared of kebab (even though they're the reason they're here) and it's probably like that in France and UK too.
>What is the role of European, i.e. Ashkenazi Jews in this country?
Founders of the country. For the longest time they were considered the intellectual, dominating elite, and many non-Ashkenazis felt discriminated against by them.
Nowadays they represent the more educated side of Jews. Their numbers are equivalent to the Mizrahis, but they are significantly more represented in the higher echelons of society and academia [I'm talking about insanely skewed ratios, like 7:1 ratios, despite being the same population size!] and significantly less in crimes.
Basically, they were [and still are, to a lesser extent] the equivalent of white people in America.
>What do Jews think of Europe
Love it culturally, many are still connected to it, but a hatred for their politics.
>my country in particular
Holocaust stuff is pretty much over, Germany is one of the most popular European countries [or among all countries on Earth] here for that matter. That said, there is still a lot of resentment from Holocaust survivors and the older generation in general.
>Is it still spoken or is it all Hebrew these days?
Only in very specific, obscure, "blocked off" religious communities.
This might interest you on the subject of Germany/Holocaust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x73L7iY-Xhg
>Do any of you ever consider coming back?
In a "coming back" sense, as in, descendants of German Jews? No. But there's a lot of Israelis who live there because it's a quality country.
1/2
If you my personal opinion: Germany is a nice country, and the people are overall nice, and they handled apologizing for the Holocaust as gracefully as you can considering the subject.
That said, I don't trust the German people. They are an obedient people, they are told to look one way and they do it, be it Hitler or be it Merkel. Once the winds of politics turn the other way, and Germany becomes predominantly right wing, the minorities in that country might be at a serious risk. Shit, it could happen at any time now given the backlash of the refugee crisis.
I wouldn't move there for permanent residence as a minority and risk my grandchildren, or their grandchildren being at a risk in the future.
Remember, these people started two world wars for a reason. They are educated and lovely, but also incredibly ambitious and obedient.
This might not be a popular opinion in Israel, but I feel it has a strong basis.
2/2
>>56765055
>>56765110
Thank you so much for this insight! Not often that I receive such a detailed and well-worded response on this board.
Aside from the Zionist founding fathers being European Jews, they obviously wanted to found a Jewish homeland to escape persecution in Europe and then the Holocaust blah blah blah. So they see it in terms of "Oh look, Israel exists entirely because of Ashkenazi getting the shit beaten out of them in Europe for hundreds of years shitskin Arab Jews were never gassed in Bergen-Belsen they can't feel our pain."
And so it's made pretty clear that Israel was created by and for Ashkenazi and that Mizhrai and other African/Asian Jews are only tolerated begrudgingly.
>>56765110
Germany didn't start world war I
>>56767790
>let me tell you about your country
yeah nah fuck off
yeah that's why the government spent money and did multiple operations to get them here
>>56764741
come visit we have camels
>>56765110
it's a problem for Germany because their culture is more collectivist and not as individualist as American culture is.
>>56764741
>What is the role of European, i.e. Ashkenazi Jews in this country?
They (that is, we) are still in effect the ruling elite. The closest thing Israel has to a privileged majority. A lot of the older Ashkenazi jews are really racist so there is a lot of enmity between the various groups. Back when the Mizrahim were just arriving the Ashkenazim pretty much shunted them to border towns in order to keep the good developed towns for themselves under the guise of "developing the country". To this day those border towns are shitholes which see no investment.
Academia, government, and finance are dominated by Ashkenazim due to a lot of shit like that. You'd think we would be more enlightened about racism but nope, humans gonna human. As soon as you are not a minority you start acting like every shitty ruling class ever.
>What do Jews think of Europe, my country in particular?
This depends largely on age and whether the given Israeli belongs to the left or the right. Right-wing jews by and large despise Germany almost universally because they see nations as people and there is a "do not forgive do not forget WE ARE LEGION" vibe with them. For pragmatic reasons they are fine with cooperating with Germany. Most of the 50+ Israelis are like that as well aside from the commie socialists from the early days of the country. Young left-wing Israelis largely overlook Germany's past and idolize Europe as enlightened and advanced. There is a sizable portion which looks up to Germany in particular, which they believe we can learn from and should imitate.
The Right/Left breakdown in Israel is roughly 70/30, respectively.
>Is it still spoken or is it all Hebrew these days?
Orthodox jews and really old Israelis speak Yiddish. Most Israelis are largely secular and don't like the orthodox jews to put it gently. Largely because they are insular, speak their own language and refuse to contribute to society, living on welfare.
>>56767876
Not that anon but it's pretty clear Israel doesn't treat my community well to the rest of the world.
>>56768156
cont.
>Do any of you ever consider coming back?
A lot of young left-leaning Israelis have pretty much given up on Israel at this point due to the increasingly fascist right wing parties gaining power. There is a minor exodus of the educated to Western countries. Canada, the US and Germany are the most popular destinations. If I had to guess I'd say that most people who choose Germany probably have German roots, though distant. They don't speak German as of yet anyhow.
>>56768190
are you that Ethiopian?
>>56768156
>Orthodox jews and really old Israelis speak Yiddish. Most Israelis are largely secular and don't like the orthodox jews to put it gently. Largely because they are insular, speak their own language and refuse to contribute to society, living on welfare.
That and they don't have to serve in the military and also harass and threaten secular Jews, religious pilgrims, and tourists.
>>56768237
Yep.
>>56767790
You're reading too much into this. The mistreatment of non-Ashkenazi jews is good old racism, plain and simple. They consider themselves white and the others non-white so you have the classic /int/ attitude at work. The country has made some progress in this front but this is still the case.
btw Zionism predates WW2 by 4 decades. In the end the holocaust played a fairly small role in the founding of Israel. Israel was won partially legitimately (buying land) and partially illegitimately (armed militias kicking out Arabs in the early days; let me add that the Arabs did the same so both sides were scumbags).
>>56768305
Not the guy you're talking with but fucking hell man I'm a secular lib living in an orthodox neighborhood and I never cease being amazed at how racist these guys are. They actually held a massive protest calling for the government to not force Rabbis to accept black people as jews when "they're clearly not jews because jews can't be black".
>>56768407
I'm going to be completely honest with you.
The majority of Israelis and White American Jews whether observant or not are racist, especially towards blacks and black Jews.
>>56768468
You're absolutely right, but there are different levels of racism. Most Israelis are comparable to American southerners which, really, is not very favorable but is factual. Orthodox jews tend to be KKK level racist.
>>56765055
>the equivalent of white people in America.
m8...
>>56768531
I don't really make the distinction between the various levels of racism because I find them illusionary. They are still racists.
>>56768615
Well, I think the distinction is important because if you do not examine the degree than I'd say even a country which is much more multicultural and tolerant than Israel, such as the US or Canada, consists primarily of racist individuals.
>>56768468
Literally every community in the world is racist towards blacks for what I've observed
>Thank you so much for this insight! Not often that I receive such a detailed and well-worded response on this board.
>>56767984
>it's a problem for Germany because their culture is more collectivist and not as individualist as American culture is.
I'm not sure why Trump and Sanders are doing so well in the US if it's supposed to be such an individualist pro-capitalist kind of place.
>>56768663
Racial tolerance/racially tolerant are illusionary feelgoodisms Whites like to tell themselves they are to feel above those who don't care enough to lie to themselves.
>>56768671
That has nothing to do with this topic, I'm talking about a faith/secular jewish communities. I can care less about everyone else at this moment .
>>56768791
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Donald Trump kind of the ultimate symbol of Mammon and gaudy, tasteless displays of wealth?
>>56768838
Rejecting progress, however minor, is a good way to stunt it for good.
>>56767790
It's an exaggeration. Yes, the original Zionist movement was pretty much a European thing, and originated out of necessity. Doesn't mean they ever excluded their Jewish brethren in other lands.
>>56768340
>They consider themselves white and the others non-white so you have the classic /int/ attitude at work.
It's not about skin color racism. It's not about "white" and "non-white", it's about civilized vs uncivilized. Ashkenazis are simply an extension of the European view of non-Europeans.
>>56768305
Everyone is prejudiced black people. Even brown people look down on them.
I'm sorry.
>>56768879
Wrong. Trump is a symbol of strategic wealth via logical investments and knowing how to surround himself with qualified Americans who get shit done.
A symbol, anyway.
>>56768879
Trump wants to curb trade with Mexico and China and is not a small-government Republican by any definition, in fact he has a long history of support for state-sponsored health care and the like.
He advocates higher taxes on the rich (just like Sanders) and has much of his rhetoric targeting big business as the bad guys (just like Sanders).
So no, Trump is not a proponent of the supposed traditional American individualism.
By the way, for all the talk of supposed inner-Jewish racism in Israel, particularly in regard to the Ashkenazi/Mizrahi crap, it's actually the least influential division/clash in Israeli society. It's almost non-existent among young people, a good portion of which are hybrid anyway.
>>56768955
It's not real progress, it's fake shit fags in Tel Aviv tell themselves as they don't make eye contact with Sudanese and hurry away from them.
>>56768964
Don't care for or about your apologies, g-d will make it right. He gave Miriam leprosy for her racism, surely there is something in store for those who haven't learned the lesson.
>>56768720
>Courtesy is Reddit
Fuck you, shitposter.
>>56769101
>It's not real progress, it's fake shit fags in Tel Aviv tell themselves as they don't make eye contact with Sudanese and hurry away from them.
The government is not literally stealing Mizrahi kids from their parents anymore, nor effectively segregate them in border towns. There are far more minorities in positions of power and influence than in the past. The general racist sentiment, as shown research, is down.
If you can't see the progress in, say, America and the rest of the developed world I don't even know where to start.
btw those Tel Aviv faggots are your allies so it is amusing to hear you speak derisively of them. You forget that the same people are the ones protesting for the Sudanese and risking imprisonment to help them.
>elokim
Anon pls
>>56769250
But does the government care for the border towns they to this day put brown Jews in? Do they care about the detainment of Refugees indefinitely in the Negev? Do they care about toppling the Ashkenazim hegemony? No.
I care for nothing less than revolutionary action. Everything else is a bandaid on top of a stab wound.
>>56769459
Progress takes time, as it always did for the entire duration of human history. Women were not granted rights in one fell swoop, but over thousands of years of civilization. It is just now that they are even coming near to standing as equal.
"Revolutionary action" rarely achieves much of anything. Plus if you're going to revolt you better be damn sure you are in a stronger position than the people you're trying to bring down.
>>56769459
Jej, you're trying to simplify a deep socio-economic problem in Israel into being >muh race.
Ashkenazis have a significantly stronger foundation and background coming into this issue. It's not like their wealth is undeserved. Their ancestors came and built this land and their descendants are profiting from their work.
I got news for you man, new arrivals to a country don't immediately become kings, and this is true everywhere.
At the end of the day "minorities" [non-ashkenazis] in Israel have it better than minorities in 95% of the world have it. My father is Iraqi but he's in the top 1% of earners here from having one of the most important academic positions in Israel. Came from a shit poor background after the Iraqi Jews were rescued and worked his way to the top through sheer studying. Nothing prevented him from doing so. Don't blame racism for every little thing.
>>56769620
What 'revolution' does he want anyway? He wants Ethiopians to "overthrow" the Ashkenazis who are responsible for handling incredibly important jobs in security, academia, etc? Then what?
He's completely delusional about Israel because he doesn't live here.
>>56769777
>>56769820
ITT: JIDF unable to handle criticism of their morally bankrupt nation.
>>56770024
>"hmm... he's writing a logical, well worded analysis based on personal experience... I can't give any rebuttal since I am uneducated about the subject... I know! JIDF!!!"
>>56770024
Israel's morally bankrupt, sure, but the rest of the western world isn't far behind in terms of racism. I'm the one who first said that Israel is a fairly racist society but you'd be delusional to not recognize that racists make the majority in every western society I can name. It is a slow, uphill battle and oversimplifying it to a dichotomy is thoroughly unreasonable.
