>exist for 1000 years
>produce no notable technological or scientific advancements
>produce no notable works of literature
>your architecture is greek fanfic
>get destroyed by a bunch of jews and starving barbarian tribes
Am I getting it right? Was Roman empire just a huge meme?
>>62229019
Are you fucking kidding me?
>>62229019
i've always said that, their scientific progress is close to zero, and very limited technological progress, yet romanboo get mad
Just compare what was before rome (egypt, carthage, greece, mesopotamia, persia etc).
Rome was the dark age.
What the fuck is this thread
Come to think of it, how many civilizations have really produced notable technological/scientific development? It seems as though only a minority do.
Heck, even in terms of culture, most civilizations seem to just plagiarize a whole lot of culture from different ones.
At the end of the day, perhaps many of them are just less extreme versions of the Mongols (100% military power and absolutely nothing else of value).
>>62229095
>Just compare what was before rome (egypt, carthage, greece, mesopotamia, persia, nude berber nigger tribes chimping out in their desert mudhuts etc).
wow very true, really makes you think
>>62229019
>>produce no notable technological or scientific advancements
>>produce no notable works of literature
lol
>>62229019
> produce no notable works of literature
Ovid and Vergil?
Shitalian greekboo Romans cannot even compare to GOAT Greece τbh
>>62229280
the moon landing ;)
>>62229019
Wait, they existed for this many years than we do?
Damn, we rock.
>>62229394
>Jewish nigger got removed by strong Algerian bull in a war named after him
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitos_War
kek
K E K
>>62229019
Their civil engineering and law were amazing.
Not their fault you donot know Ovid, Vergil or Catull.
>>62229946
wtf delet this now
>>62229951
roman law was awefull... Slavery allowed, divorce not allowed, castration allowed, being single not allowed, gamble not allowed etc..
did you even read it?
>>62230362
yet the whole western law is based on it, so mayby not so awfull after all
>>62230411
dude a plebian couldn't marry a patrician (lex Canuleia)... how is that a good law.. It was basically plutocracy.
>>62230522
>It was basically plutocracy
>implying
lmao @ u
>>62229019
>produce no notable works of literature
are you retarded?
>>62230580
well it's the rich/landowners who had the most power, and were extrely corrupt, unlike democracy in Athens.
It's not even the worst
they legally killed mal-formed childrens (eugenism)
>cito necatus insignis ad deformitatem puer esto
You could sell your childrens
>si pater filium ter venum duit, filius a patre liber esto
>>62230362
I fail to see the problem?
>>62230522
It must';ve had good fundations if they are sitll used by us. I never said we took it as a whole.For example fact that you must proove some1 his guilt rather than he has to proove you his innocence is take from Roman law. Pretty decent solution..
>>62230679
>they legally killed mal-formed children
>you could sell your children
so?
*2000 years
People always fall for the byzantine meme
too much stupidity on this board to bear,i'm out
>>62229019
>produce no notable technological or scientific advancements
>your architecture is greek fanfic
Horrible bait. 0/5 you didn't even try.
>>62229019
>no notable works of literature
What did he mean by this?
>>62230784
meh, in the great lines / craddle maybe, but even the justinian law was far from modern western laws (mutilation allowed, divorce forbbiden, can't re-mary, can't fuck outside of marriage etc.)
>>62230883
edge m8, even back then it was saw as quit horrible - but necessary.
>>62231034
>quit horrible - but necessary
same still goes
>>62230362
>divorce not allowed
Lie. It was allowed.
>being single was not allowed
Another ridiculous lie
>gamble not allowed
Not true either.
>>62229019
I thought they made good aquaducts...
>>62231110
331 ad law against divorce.
9 ad, Lex Papia Poppaea, against being single.
204 ad, Lex Alearia, against gamble
>>62231034
I find hardly suprising or even more hardly any issue. Circumstances changed "a bit" over these centuries. I bet they had something like our "human rights" too, it's just that probably very few % of them all were considered humans.
>>62230362
>>62230522
>>62230679
You're mistaking the law with what it is right. Their system was brilliant and effective, whether its institutions were morally good or bad it is not the point. The law does not equal justice. Something known since Aristotle. Read a fucking book.
>>62231207
>what is Corpus Iuris Civilis
>>62231311
>You're mistaking the law with what it is right. Their system was brilliant and effective, whether its institutions were morally good or bad it is not the point. The law does not equal justice. Something known since Aristotle.
top tier post
>>62231311
>whether its institutions were morally good or bad it is not the point.
What kind of degenerate way of thinking is that?
>>62231343
yeah it's byzantine justian law,
>>62231311
by saying their law was awesome, the german probably meant the laws in theirselfs, so their content, no the overall system.
you're playing on a semantic subtlety.
>>62231416
but he is right, it's pretty silly to despise the whole Roman Empire and it's contribution for the human race's developement, because they didn't act according to our modern moral standards.
>>62230522
>expecting ancient romans to be on the tolerance levels ofodenr day lefties
W E W
>>62230362
I studied Roman law and everything you said here is pure bullshit.
The reason why the Romans are so looked upon is because they developed swiftly, knew how to organize everything from city planing to military ranks, perfected the arts of architecture, advanced medicine and knew how to organize society and keep order.
>Pic related
Roman medical tools used for surgeries
>>62231621
I don't think we can "quantify" contribution but in scientific field I'm certain that the legacy is quit low by ancient standars, specially considering the size and the population of the empire.
I can't really quote from memory many roman scientists..
Even with google I found 3-4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ancient_Roman_scientists
Perfected the stadium and reached the pinnacle of bloodsport
>>62231732
the law I quoted exists, not bsing m8
those tools existed in india a long time before rome, they didn't invented them.
don't know any roman abulcasis either
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_technology
And it doesn't even count Byzantium.
>>62231428
The content of their system of law was a mere reflect of their society and functioning. Judging them based on our modern perception of morality seems pointless to me.
>>62231785
>They didn't invent them
Of course they did, the Romans had no trade or contact with India and everything they had was locally made.
>Bringing some sandnigger 600 years after the Empire fell
>>62231804
Minoans had aqueduct before rome like 2k years before the empire, same for thermes.
abacus is from babylonia, concrete -> egypt. Catapult is persian etc.
Not saying that rome wasn't advanced, but it didn't invented much; it fixed some stuffs tho.
>>62231949
I didn't judged them in the first place, I was replying to >>62229951
just think rome is idealized.
>>62229019
>be Russian subhuman
>have a population of 144 million
>produce very little significant figures compared to Western Europe
lmaoing @ your life
>>62232001
>the Romans had no trade or contact with India
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Roman_trade_relations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Roman_relations
?
They even had laws about trade with india. They traded with china too.
>>62232041
Learn to read sandnigger.
>Aqueduct, true arch
>true arch
Meaning it was a different and more advanced type of aqueduct.
>>62232041
steam powered objects were invented around the greek time and yet James Watt is considered to be a great inventor because he managed to make the steam engine useful
sure there were some civilizations that had aquaducts before them but none of them managed to build them on the scale the romans did, which is EXTREMELY relevant given the further you can divert potable water successfully, the more useful it is.
inventing something doesn't mean what you've invented is actually useful to anyone, I'd say for society as a whole the man who makes something practical and usable by a large population is more important than the man who invents it
>>62232102
>Established during the reign of Augustus
Nigga Rome was at the height of its power at the times and already achieved most of its glory and knowledge
>>62232055
>In the top 10 of human accomplishments
>Subhuman
???
>>62232258
>Possibly the oldest existing arch bridge is the Mycenaean Arkadiko bridge in Greece from about 1300 BC. The stone corbel arch bridge is still used by the local populace.[1] The well-preserved Hellenistic Eleutherna Bridge has a triangular corbel arch.[2] The 4th century BC Rhodes Footbridge rests on an early voussoir arch.[3]
Although true arches were already known by the Etruscans and ancient Greeks, the Romans were - as with the vault and the dome - the first to fully realize the potential of arches for bridge construction.[4]
>>62232286
I agree on your point but the water system in ancient middle east was very effective too, thinking of Babylonia.
otherwise yeah, populzaring a technlogy is important.
Can we just agree that the Germanic tribes are seriously underrated?
>da germanic be barburians in loincloth we wuz da real kings! t. alberto
If you want to bait Italy just say they have shit pizza
>>62232403
formulating a theory and actually using it are two entirely different accomplishments
after all you could say the greeks "knew about atoms" but nobody in their right mind considers them relevant to atomic theory
>>62232310
Egypt had surgery tools too, the oldest ones actually, it probably mean all the mediteranean world get them from them.
>>62232446
It's not a bait it's true
The Roman empire was advanced as fuck in ways people dont realize. No combination of countries in Europe up until the industrial revolution even matched what the romans did in terms of mining, farming, construction, engineering etc.
They built strong infrastructure that lasted till now and they kept amazing records. When the romans collapsed all the kingdoms after tried to replicate them but they just couldn't, they merely lived in these areas that the romans built up. Many kingdoms in europe could barely field an army of 20k-30k people, the romans lost some 100k soldiers in a single battle alone and they had a standing army of anywhere from 500k-600k.
>>62232494
the first surgery tool was a sharp rock Urgh used to extract a thorn from Agur's arse
>>62232392
>144 million people
>almost the same number of figures as Netherlands which has only 17 million
They have a pretty low number per capita, Chaim. That's my point.
Let's not forget that "Soviet technology" was stolen from the Germans as well and after the Soivet Union fell Russians have been irrelevant in all fields ever since.
>>62232575
actually several massive advances in literally all the areas you mentioned happened during the medieval era
romans would have been literally incapable of building a year 1000's era major church
>>62232055
That's one german imperialist wet dream of a map if I've ever seen one.
>>62232591
Should have added "metal tools" indeed.
Egypt was so great
http://sci-hub.cc/10.3109/08941939.2010.515289
I'm taking advantage of this thread since /tv/ it's absolute horseshit. I am looking for films or shows based on Rome. So far I've seen Rome from HBO and Spartacus (TV show), any suggenstion?
>>62230362
>Slavery allowed, divorce not allowed, castration allowed, being single not allowed, gamble not allowed etc..
>roman law was awefull
uhhhh
>He doesn't have the intellectual capacity to understand that an empire which existed for a thousand years had multiple very distinct cultural phases with different laws and traditions
And btw:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_technology
No civilization before or after (until the industrial revolution ofc) has been even close to them when it comes to infrastructure.
>>62232649
Yeah, no. Hagia Sophia was something the Turks could not surpass for almost a thousand years. Inb4 not Romans.
>>62232649
There were some great accomplishments but you have to understand just how long ago the romans existed, it was 2000 years ago. 2000 fucking years ago you had a republic government that was very very modern with representation from the people both lower and upper class. You had meticulous records and accounts from both the elite and the lowly. You had a society that was so similar to ours you even had marketing for famous athletes, large restaurants and fast foods, freedom of travel through most of europe safely. You had absolutely massive projects that led to wide spread farming and mining advancements that built up massive stockpiles that the rest of europe wouldn't see for hundreds of years after the collapse of the romans. You had projects like the aqueducts that still fucking work now and you even had bath houses that people still use. The level of change at a political and administrative level was unprecedented and very advanced and modern
>>62232602
Maybe you should consider other factors like population density, country size, neighboring countries, trade and more? Comparing the Netherlands to Russia is like comparing two completely different things.
>>62232796
I, Claudius
>>62232796
no, you saw the only two decent ones in english langage.
if you want ancient civ movies, there's troy (2004) and immortas (2011), the one about titans (2012).
There's the one on ancient egypt that came up few weeks ago too.
>>62232711
why Gernans out of all men need such stuff. But I agree, they obviously try to melt into the whole story.
>>62232718
if you're getting down to the specifics like "metal tools" you might as well go down the specifics of "surgery tools useful for a particular procedure" at which point the romans did invent several tools and in fact types of surgery
>>62232909
yes, they had a nice medecine indeed. Not a theorical one, but a a pragmatic one.
Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's like the semit who killed rome said :^)
>>62232711
>hurr German biased
>Germans are shown as being irrelevant before the Age of Enlightenment
Sure thing :^)
>>62232909
It's pointless talking to him, all of his arguments are "b-but muh brown people had stuff too!"
>>62232813
alright show me the roman building with the same amount of wall to window ratio of a gothic church while still being capable of supporting a roof
I'll wait
>>62230362
>>62229019
this thread is great
>>62233010
>ad hominem
>insults
>race baits
are you underage or what m8.
I don't think roman had a different skin color than me btw.
>>62233039
Please show me a bridge or sewer system built by a medieval kingdom that is still used today and will be in use for the next 1000 years
>>62232813
>Hagia Sophia was something the Turks could not surpass for almost a thousand years
If you mean anatolian turks, Sultan Ahmed Mosque was indeed built 1k year after, but turkic people like seljukid etc had nice architecture.
>>62233008
The monkeys are beign salty today.
>>62233055
> I don't think roman had a different skin color than me btw.
>>62233039
>waaaah, only the architecture style that I like counts
There's plenty of windows in Aya Sofia.
>>62233074
not relevant to the current discussion
and roman infrastructure today has no valuable impact on our infrastructure, they're novelties and tourist attractions, but a roman bridge is not particularly useful to the modern world in any way given it is completely incapable of supporting modern vehicles
>>62233194
But people still use the roman infrastructure to access water, walk between towns and for leisure now
>>62233143
Considering that a great part of the roman population lived in north africa and middle east.. Romanity was a cultural thing, not racial. The emperor who gave citizenship to all free mens was northafrican/syrian mix after all.
anyway those race-trolls are cancerous and irrelevant.
>>62233166
I think you're misunderstanding the point of my post
it wasn't to say one architectural style was superior over the other, merely saying that the medieval era did indeed advance construction and engineering to the point they were fully capable of creating constructions the romans simply did not have the level of knowledge for
the window to wall ratio is not used in an aesthetic sense but rather as a direct example of an engineering feat as the romans were not capable of constructing walls in such a way they had large openings without severely compromising their structural integrity
>>62233226
>>62233194
fun fact, there's some roman bridge still used here, and roman bath too. :V
meanwhile chinese one fall after few years, not even joking!
>>62233194
>and roman infrastructure today has no valuable impact on our infrastructure
Is this bait?
>>62229019
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_literature
>>62232863
And Jesus was there
The Son of God bore witness to this progenitor civilization that would mold the rest of the nations
>>62233297
Roman Concrete was pretty hardcore, blows me away when I see some of the shit they built
>>62233300
roman infrastructure is incapable of supporting the levels of stress required in a post-industrial society
they're useful for recreational purposes sure but not as vital parts of the infrastructure
>>62233290
Did you heard about Guédelon Castle? It's a modern castle build with medieval technics, pretty fun to watch
>>62233374
But people literally still rely on them for access to water and sewage. The bath houses are still used like a local pool
>>62233348
What mixture did they use?
>>62233348
then again it is interesting to see just how advanced modern day technology is from a historical perspective
a very good one is steel
a single modern industrial steel mill produces more steel in a week than the entire roman era at its height in a year, and the quality of said steel is superior to the fabled damascus steel in all aspects other than possibly aesthetics
>>62233425
the bridge https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Pont_romain_EK.JPG
Bath http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24493177
Most of the theaters are still used for music shows too.
nice desu
>>62233242
This wasn't race baiting, literally all of your arguments is that some others had stuff too and that's it.
>>62233194
You're wrong. There are several well preserved Roman bridges that can support modern vehicles just fine.
>>62233435
It's said they used volcanic ash to help strengthen it.
http://www.romanconcrete.com/docs/spillway/spillway.htm
http://id-archserve.ucsb.edu/courses/arthistory/152k/concrete.html
Pretty fascinating, modern engineers still have a tough time figuring it out
Also for people saying that the romans never built anything compared to medieval cathedrals they clearly dont know that the romans built massive domed buildings and archways that still blow modern architects and engineers minds as seen in this picture
>>62232446
Ive been to Italy and their pizza IS shit.
>>62233508
considering that we're speaking about innovation and invention, comparing with the others is pretty much the right thing to do.
>>62233547
perhaps the weight of a single modern day vehicle and even if the weight can be supported they simply do not have the throughput modern society demands
>>62229019
Because law, order, organization, developments in bureaucracy, their concrete still baffles us to this day, built roads and infrastructure, gave western europe a common heritage
>>62233665
Their pizza is healthy. You don't like it because you're a lardass who only eats disgusting greasy shit like the average American.
>>62233695
Yeah, and the Romans perfected, at their time's standard, everything they touched from Politics to architecture and social engineering.
>>62233717
Not everyone drives, especially in europe. Lots of people use the bridges to travel between towns on foot or on bike. The bridges were built with foot traffic in mind as the romans never had fucking cars but if they did I can guarantee you we'd still have those bridges around too.
>>62233827
And then Christianity came along
>>62229019
>>exist for 1000 years
And changed over the course of time, expanded and maintained control over its provinces longer than other civilisations.
>>produce no notable technological or scientific advancements
How can you be so wrong ? They perfected almost every technique, their roads still remain, the concept of Republic, etc.
>produce no notable works of literature
Who is Marcos Aurelius, Cicero, Virgil ?
>>your architecture is greek fanfic
They just took the aesthetics, if you had half of a brain you would notice how many changed they did, and how many things they added. Archs, domes, walls, a new mindset of urbanisation that was still used during the Spanish conquest of America (castrum).
>get destroyed by a bunch of jews and starving barbarian tribes
The empire ended, but not like you think, It didn't burn to the ground or it didn't got its population replaced by barbarians. The roman empire ended, in a way that they changed their name and culture.
>>62233849
several medieval era bridges are used for the same purpose though and in fact several medieval era churches still stand tall and are utilized for their original purpose
>>62233796
and salty
The Nepoli tier pizza uses fruity tomatoes and fatty cheese, the pizzas here add salt and saturated fats to add more flavor to the cheeses
>>62233796
Italian pizza is cardboard with tomato water on top.
>>62234021
Yet the roman bridges are in most cases 1000 years older.
The Romans also built massive churches. The Mausoleum of Hadrian is one of the most impressive structures and it was built almost 2000 years ago.
There is even a massive damn that was built by the Romans that was used to supply water to local towns and it's still used by farmers today to irrigate crops and it helps literally feed the people of europe still after 1000+ years
What do I read to learn about Rome?
This thread has me sold
>>62234200
lets be completely honest here, the bridge in your picture has been renovated so much there's some serious "ship of theseus" going on
>>62233988
>The empire ended, but not like you think, It didn't burn to the ground or it didn't got its population replaced by barbarians. The roman empire ended, in a way that they changed their name and culture.
That's kinda wrong though, because it wasn't until the Renaissance that the full glory of Roman and Greek knowledge was restored. After the WRE fell, a lot of the technologies, literature, etc of the Romans and Greeks were lost and took very long to be rediscovered.
>>62234265
Their literature, civil and military engineering, and architecture has no comparison to anything done at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Masada#The_Roman_siege
>>62234265
vulgarization books to begin, and specific fields then.
>>62234330
don't try to go "dark ages" on us here
a significant amount of advances in a wide variety of fields were achieved during the medieval era
>>62234322
It's been maintained which is something you do if you want it to last. It's still a bridge and structure that is massive and beautiful and it has lasted just under 2000 years which is fucking unreal.
I'm not saying medieval kingdoms didn't create beautiful structures but the Romans were bureaucratic administrative legends and they created some of the most beautiful architecture we'll ever see. It's really just a monument to how amazing they were that we still use the shit they built for practical use. I could go on a rant all day about medieval architecture as well but I have a soft spot for the romans
>>62234198
american pizza is 2 store thick sponge covered with pool worth of lard
we can do this for the whole day long, but what if I like both styles of pizza? How am "I supposed to live now, what am I supposed to belive from now on?
>>62234419
wich was pretty low compared to rest of the world at this time, or the renaissance. (and even carolingian renaissance before)
dark age wasn't totally dark, not white either, but some shades of grey.
>>62234419
It was still a low amount of progress though compared to Roman and Greek civilization though. The "dark ages" might not be true for the rest of the world, but it's true for Europe. The only parts of Europe that weren't shit at that time was the ERE and Muslim Iberia.
>>62233136
> but turkic people like seljukid etc had nice architecture.
You mean persian architecture
>>62234330
If you're speaking about arts and literature, it's clear. Secretum Secretorum was one of the most important bases of the Renaissance.
But aside from that, Renaissance perfected a lot of things but it shunned the "dark ages", like >>62234419 said, even while it was during this period that the most advances in architecture were made.
Renaissance men were just glorified hippies imho.
>>62232796
old Hollywood had many cheaply made swords and sandals movies that where set around roman times like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sneC6v02CVA
There is a skinimax style Caligula movie that is pretty inaccurate and incredibly pornographic but kind of funny
You can get "The Eagle" Which is described as "Saving Private Ryan" in rome.
I'd recommend the countless swords and sandals movies. If they get popular again They might reboot the genera.
>>62234419
I dont like the term dark ages but Europe fell way behind the Muslim and Asian world. After Rome collapsed China was easily the most advanced region of the world, if it wasn't for the mongols then China would have remained the most advanced, it's actually staggering just how far ahead the Chinese were, I guess it's what happens when you have more people in a delta than you did in all of Europe.
>>62234552
you can't expect pur nomads from central asian stepps living in tents to invent their own architecture huh.
>>62234506
dark ages, if one uses that term, ended at the latest when Charlemagne was crowned
there's still several hundreds of medieval era years to go past that
and no it was not "pretty low", europe advanced quite steadily to the point that the acceleration during the renaissance late period was only possible due to the foundations laid during the medieval era rather than just being a matter of roman knowledge returning
what did happen was several renaissance era "historians" (quotes necessary) severely downplaying all the achievements during the medieval era because they were essentially greekaboos cursing their germanic heritage
fucking mongols
>>62234580
europe had equalized with the muslim world around the time of the crusades and in several fields never were surpassed, a major example of such being metallurgy
>>62234672
History summed up
>>62234726
>tfw crusader idiots never helped Alberto Barbosa and Fernando Martinez fend off the Muslim hordes and went after pagans instead
I'm worried I have sandnigger in me now because of you. Thanks a lot.
>>62229946
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitos_War
>"'Meanwhile the Jews in the region of Cyrene had put one Andreas at their head and were destroying both the Romans and the Greeks. They would cook their flesh, make belts for themselves of their entrails, anoint themselves with their blood, and wear their skins for clothing. Many they sawed in two, from the head downwards. Others they would give to wild beasts and force still others to fight as gladiators. In all, consequently, two hundred and twenty thousand perished. In Egypt, also, they performed many similar deeds, and in Cyprus under the leadership of Artemio. There, likewise, two hundred and forty thousand perished. For this reason no Jew may set foot in that land, but even if one of them is driven upon the island by force of the wind, he is put to death. Various persons took part in subduing these Jews, one being Lusius, who was sent by Trajan."
"religion of peace"
60000000 weren't enough
>>62234726
more likely 14th if not 15th in some fields. Then west over shadow mena.
>>62234863
nah, you've had that in you ever since the Umayyads got into the iberian peninsula
based Charles Martel kept my genes clean though
>>62229019
>140 replies
Got what you were looking for, right?
>>62229917
Polska nie istnieje od 1795
>>62230679
Well, we have abortion and I can't see how getting rid of malformed kids is a bad thing.
>>62234980
It took the Iberians almost 800 years to conquer back the peninsula again. The crusaders could've helped them hasten the process.
>>62231207
If being single wasn't allowed that means /r9k/ like me are fucked or the state gave us a gf?
>>62235269
no, you just had to pay penalities and stay poor and virgin :^)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Papia_Poppaea#Promotion_of_marriage
they also did a lot of gaysex in rome
>>62234497
kurwa mać
>>62229019
>exist for 1000 years
try 2000
>>62235319
the Romans where strange in how they didn't have a prison system for a long time, just labor, fines and death with the occasional baboon fucking thrown in
>>62229280
>how many civilizations have really produced notable technological/scientific development?
USA has more than any single other civilization in history.
Prove me wrong (you can't).
>>62235792
>civilization
>>62235624
my thoughts excatly
>>62235173
JAK LAWA GORĄCY!!! ZAMNKNIJ KURWA MORDĘ!!!
>>62229019
So I guess this was built out of accident.
>>62235547
Not enough
>>62229019
They produced a ton of philosophy.
Lots of it was Greek fanfic tier, but much of it like Tacitus was some good stuff.
They also left the legacy of Christianity on the western world, and I would argue that without the church's infrastructure, the west never would have rose to dominate the world.
I've never seen a single post unify /int/ so much. Not sure if you triggered everyone on purpose or you're actually an idiot OP. Either way, well done.
