Who was more important to Western Civilization, the Romans or the Greeks?
Romans by far.
Greeks by far.
Greeks had nice philosophers, science and stuff, but they were bad at war. They had to be led by Macedonians to accomplish any significant conquests.
1. Romans
2. Greeks
3. British Empire?
>>62179084
>British "edumacation"
Pathetic.
>>62179086
And those conquests had nothing to do with the West, they went eastward.
>>62178960
Greeks = Important for turks and pakistan.
Romans = Important for Europeans.
Egyptians
>>62179100
The French have been more important for Europe than the British by a significant margin. The British are a respectable second though.
>>62179086
Greeks had colonies in italy, spain even in ukraine but they were colonies not conquests
>>62179156
Gernany shaped Europe tho.
Brits main importance was outside o Europe (Afrika and India)
greeks = we wuz culture, science and explorores n shit
Romans= we wuz stability, colonisers, strong military and moral values n' shit
>>62179223
>Germany
Not even close. More of a scourge that needs removal.
>>62179156
The OP question was
>Who was more important to Western Civilization
not europe
>>62178960
The greeks are litteraly the base of the western civilisation.
>>62179223
>Gernany shaped Europe tho.
lel
>>62178960
Romans.
Greeks mostly influenced the middle-east and Southern Europe to a much lesser extent.
Now the Romans completely changed Western Europe and everything that touches the Mediterranean
>>62179122
no greeks => no romans
>>62179125
The Renaissance was started by the rediscovery of Greek literature in Seville
>>62179247
1. France
2. Russia
3. Germany
4. Italy
5. Spain
6- Turkey
7. Polan
8. Austria
9. England
>>62179249
I was responding to someone else, you blind rat. And still, France has definitely been more important to Western civilisation than Britain, it's not even close.
Romans have been more important than the Greeks. Again, it's not particularly close. The idea that the Greeks are the cradle of Western civilisation is Renaissance-era drivel. The Greeks probably had more of an influence on Eastern civilisation than Western civilisation.
>>62178960
Greeks since they influenced Romans.
very hard to say. I am much more familiar with ancient Greek culture, so I'm gonna say Greek.
>>62178960
Greeks were the first and inspired the romans. Romans are the continuity of the greeks.
Roughly : Greeks invented west culture and Democratic civilisation/ strategy and shit.
Romans spread it across the Europe/ Mediterranea.
>>62179279
Nigel has a point here.
Romans ''founded" Western Civilization, but who "founded" the Romans?
>>62179334
Well then, Iraqis since they influenced greeks.
>>62179279
This is stupid. Using your faulty logic, the answer would be Sumerian, since they basically founded human civilisation, and spread the written word, as well as basic arithmetic, literature and religion, irrigation and other things related to farming, etc.
>>62179299
>2. Russia
Enough to trash your list. Russia is not even top 5.
>>62179299
stuff happened before the 1700's too you know
>>62178960
Romans > Greeks >>>>>>>> French >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> British """""""""""""Empire""""""""""""
t.bh
Fuck the western civilization.
Romans were best and only good empire there was, until that filth called "christfaggotry" took over.
>>62179353
That doesn't answer the question
>which movie was better, the first or the second?
>well the second is the continuity of the first
>...so which was better?
>>62179328
>France has definitely been more important to Western civilisation than Britain, it's not even close.
Yea...no.
That's clear bullshit and from your other posts I can see you don't seem to like the British much, so no more (You)'s for you now
>>62179389
Were the Sumerians white?
Worldwide most influential civilisations:
1. Sumerians
--MASSIVE power gap--
2. Greeks
3. Romans
4. British
For Western civilisation alone:
1. Romans
-- MASSIVE power gap --
2. (Ancient) Greeks
3. French
4. British
This is objective truth.
>>62179389
I agree that it could be seen as faulty logic, but when you get to the specifics, the greek sort of invented it, the romans perfected it, it you will. The greek laid the foundations, the romans spread it and furthered it.
>>62179378
There's no Iraqis in OP post tho.
>>62178960
Greeks
Romans didn't innovate on their own
>>62179493
>no Egyptians
>no Chinese
Bad list
>>62179389
>controlled eastern Europe and they suffer from their influence until today
>Was pretty much Europes save shield aganist the Nomads from the east
>They rightful succesor of the Church and the cultural herigate of the Eastern Roman Empire
>Fucked Ottomans several times and took an important part to withstand an islamization of the Balkans by cobering the Orthodox believers.
>Russia still the most powerfull and biggest country in Europe and its language hes the most native speakers in Europe
>Lots of Technologies (Space, Nuclear-science, medicine, chemitry)
>Beat the Nazis and shaped modern Europe
>>62179299
>England last place
Not biased at all.
>>62179086
>they were bad at war
They were world renowned for their martial prowess
They just had no unity
>>62179469
>Yea...no.
You had the lead since the mid 19th century, but before that, we had it.
>>62179466
To answer seriously to you, it's difficult. Because we use roman alphabet, romans wrote many books about cuisine, culture, spread its empire almost in all western europe.
But greeks have many philosophers and romans took a lot from them.
>>62179493
Worldwide most influential civilisations:
1. USA
--MASSIVE power gap--
The rest
For Western civilisation alone:
1. USA
-- MASSIVE power gap --
The rest
Fixed your shit list.
>>62179529
Sumer >> Egypt (older, more fundamental contributions to mankind), and the Chinese civilisations are impressive but can replace no one on my list. It's a top four, doesn't mean all other civilisations were not important.
Roman
Greek
French
British
Germans
>>62179551
Except for the Industrialization and waterloo.
What came from England?
England is important for India and Africa and Northern America, but not Europe.
>>62179493
>>62179529
Ye i would say WORLDWIDE should be:
1. Sumerians
2. Chinese
3. Greeks
4. Romans
5. Egyptians
>>62179597
science
>>62179644
We have science too. We also are the reason for the European Monarchies after the Fall of Rome that lastet over 1000 years and still last in some places (Your Queen for example).
For Europe your are not of importance.
>>62178960
The roman spear or pilum or whatever looks so fucking stupid. What a dumb weapon.
>>62179691
Your stupid image comes from XIX nationalistic le teutonic race meme propaganda
Both is the only acceptable answer. You can track back influences as far as Mesopotamia and the Minoans, reality is that western civilization starts with that particular blend of Greek and Roman cultures spread by the Romans in the actual west, with Celtic elements being almost completely wiped out and Germanic influences only having a partial input.
>>62179644
They just invented computers tho.
Besides that, they were shit.
>>62179576
>USA at the top
Literally why
The only thing we've contributed culturallu is popular culture and a few bretty good authors
>>62179122
>And those conquests had nothing to do with the West
Hellenisation of the East had a massive impact on Europe's future.
>>62179750
It didn't, at all.
>>62179744
Time before and after the 90's doesn't exist in Russia
>>62179750
Yeah they fucked up the Region there hard it took 1000 years until any remarkable power could form their again.
Romans pretty much just overrun there.
>>62179355
>Greeks invented west culture
This meme needs to stop.
>>62179720
>perfectly sauced and cited secondary evidence
>butthurt low quality post responds by calling it le teutonic race meme propaganda
>>62179844
>perfectly sauced and cited secondary evidence
kek
>>62179357
Etruscans :^)
>>62179844
It's not.
If you post more images from this retarde book, you will find that the guy posts German Empire borders in 1600 Europe, he completely neglects anything from Poland and ignores our contribution by handing everything to Germans, Russians, French and British.
I'm not denying that Brits contributed a lot and even more than us, but for fucks sake this isn't a good source.
>>62179861
>still no counter evidence
>>62179691
>ancient western world
Nice meme, but there's no way to track inventions or figures from that era properly. They were lost through the ages due to Christians and barbarians burning libraries with the records and shit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_technology
>The Roman Empire was one of the most technologically advanced civilizations of antiquity, with some of the more advanced concepts and inventions forgotten during the turbulent eras of Late Antiquity and the early Middle Ages
>>62179782
>It didn't, at all.
It introduced the Greek language as a lingua franca onto the Middle East and Greek philosophy into Judaic thought which was crucial for the development of Christianity as it is.
Regions in terms of historical influence:
ELDER GOD TIER:
>Western and Southern Europe, Middle-East
RESPECTABLE TIER:
>East Asia, Indian subcontinent
CATCHING UP QUICKLY TIER:
>Americas
ARE YOU EVEN TRYING TIER:
>Eastern Europe, South-east Asia
IT'S NOTHING TIER:
>Sub-Saharan Africa
Objective truth.
>>62179127
so you mean the blacks?
OK FINE ILL DELETE THE MEME PICTURE BUT YOU HAVE TO POST COUNTER EVIDENCE OK????
>>62179903
>Still no evidence to counter
>>62179944
>ARE YOU EVEN TRYING
You fuck.
We made more important things than small foamy beers.
>>62179981
Like what?
>>62179944
i approve
>>62179960
what do you mean? if you're correcting me, both are fine mine just seems more natural
but yea pls post proofs
>>62180010
Poles introduced toilets to European nobility so they would stop shitting in the bushes.
>>62180049
I would just like to read what does the dude mean by "most important inventions" and how did he got his data.
This very small picture without any relations to any definitions or explenations is simply empty information.
It's basically like looking at noting
>>62180010
Kievan Rus was centuries ahead of Western barbarians when it comes to development.
Eastern Europe also succeeded in saving you from Asian hordes while you were busy figuring out how forks work.
>>62179597
People seriously downplay the massive significance of the Industrial revolution being kicked off in Britain. They were the only people really willing too throw their children in factories too produce phossey jawed deformities just too prove you could industrialize your nation like a motherfucker. We'd be pretty much stuck at the equivalent technological, economic, social, and cultural level of 1820 or thereabouts. Science would only have improved sporadically, and no field would be as far along as it is today. Most things would still be custom-made by skilled craftmen; that is, the entire economy would all be "bespoke". All the gains from automation would be lost, and pretty much all power generation would be limited to localized engines. I can go on too show specific examples as too why Industrialization on such a scale was so important and that it wouldn't have been picked up by others until maybe very recently.
>>62179944
China & East Asia would have much more influence on the world if it didn't embarrass itself in the last 150 years
>>62180118
>Kievan Rus
>Bolan
I actually gave Russia the second most important place. I don't get your argument catholic serb.
>>62180118
>people actually believe this
>>62179156
>England is important for India and Africa and Northern America, but not Europe.
>>62179328
>>62179493
>>62179708
I refuse to believe Europeans are this uneducated about how massive and significant British contribution to Europe and humanity is.
>>62180118
>unironically WE WUZ posting
>>62180163
Try observing to what the posts you're replying to are replying to.
>>62180212
>I choose to remain uneducated in order to claim my aryan superiority
>>62180220
I put Britain in fourth for both European and world influence, you stupid leaf. Jesus Christ it's like Canadians are physically incapable of posting anything other than utter shit.
>>62180271
>i chose to remain uneducated in order to claim my slave pride
>>62180290
Any educated person would label it number 1 or 2. They doubled French output in the 19th century alone.
Kievan Rus got KHAN'D
>>62179744
To be fair every single Western country is extremely Americanized at this point
>>62180220
So before Industrialization there was no anything?
There was just a single black smith in a town making weapons and armor all day long?
Do you even know what industrialization exactly was?
Brits also took lots of inlfuence in specially from France. I would also say that France did the first and most important part in the development of industrializion with the imperial manufactures during Napoleon.
>>62180379
World history is too long for the Brits to be no.1 or 2.
>>62180379
The French revolution is the single-most important European event in the last 1000 years.
>>62180398
>Americanized
A word that quite literally has no meaning.
>>62180333
No, I am educating you due to the shitty Westocentric """education""" that you've received. Western Europe was a barbarous shithole until the 13th century, likely the least developed part of the Old World. And even later on, Poland was the most powerful European force in the 15th century, while Croats took an active part in the Renaissance. I'm guessing that's roughly the time when North Europeans realised that meat is tastier after you put it into a fire.
1. Southern Europe
2. Western Europe
3. China
4. The Levant/Iraq
5. Egypt
.
.
.
9001. Eastern Europe
90001. Africa
>>62180379
1 or 2 for world influence maybe, not for Western influence
>>62180428
>So before Industrialization there was no anything?
>There was just a single black smith in a town making weapons and armor all day long?
No, but for arguments sake, let me make some probabilities. Also France has many claims to accomplishment but the development of industrialization and carrying on with it in scale is not one of them.
1. The agricultural revolution would not exist; about 50% of the world's population would still be involved in agriculture. Due to the labor-intensiveness of agriculture, and the radically lower food output, global population would likely be little more than 1 Billion.
2.Large-scale warfare would be significantly less common, and significantly less destructive, though no less deadly. We'd still be fighting with muzzle-loading muskets and cannon, as anything more advanced requires the I.R. to happen.
3. Metalurgy would be primitive, pretty much frozen at wrought iron and very basic steels. No aluminum, let alone the more interesting alloys. Ceramics would likely not have processed either. Plastics would be unknown.
4.Electronics would not exist, let alone digital circuits, microprocessors, etc.
5. Power would be from piston engines, either steam or oil-fired. Electric generators and motors would not exist.
6. Medicine would probably plateau somewhere around 1950s-level or so
7. Transportation would be horse-drawn. Railroads would probably not exist. Certainly not the compact internal combustion engine - so no motor vehicles. Steam-powered vessels would probably exist, but be far more expensive and rare than sail-driven ones. Steam turbines would not exist.
>>62180527
>while Croats took an active part in the Renaissance
You mean as slave labour for Venice?
>>62180592
That wasn't even my argument.
Brits claim industrialization like they did it themselves what is simply wrong.
And your point is also wrong. All this stuff would simply be not avaible to a wide part of the people but still exist.
>>62180428
8. Communications systems would remain extraordinarily slow (being horse or ship-powered); no telegraph, no telephone, television, or radio. They also would be solely the province of the powerful.
9. Wealth distribution would have remained as it was prior to 1800 - the Middle class would be much smaller; rather than make up the majority of the population as it does now, probably only 20% of the population.
10. Education would be significantly lower, as the agricultural bent of the economy would leave little time for 50-60% of the population to undergo any formal schooling beyond basic grade school. Less than 20% of the population would graduate from High School, and probably less than 1% from college. As a consequence, the progression of science would be radically slower than it is now
11. Social mobility would be very low, even in the more "enlightened" cultures, as both education and wealth would be far more concentrated than today.
12. Pollution levels would be radically lower, and Climate Change be mostly theoretical.
13. Planes would not exist. There would be no rockets, and no spaceflight.
Too put it mildly. Life would have been significantly worse for the whole planet, especially Europe.
>>62180527
>Poland was the most powerful European force in the 15th century
>I'm guessing that's roughly the time when North Europeans realised that meat is tastier after you put it into a fire.
Denmark alone did more from 950-1050 than the entire history of Croatia
And the Swedish Empire did more than the entire Balkan combined (excluding ancient times)
>>62180754
>Balkan history
Foreign occupier number one, Foreign occupier number two, ..... Foreign occupier number 320 etc. etc.
>>62180695
Woulda shoulda coulda. The Brits did it. The Brits didn't spawn Industrialization, but nobody else was pursuing it at their own expense and nobody else would have in such scale for a long time going by historical context.
>>62180118
Didn't they join the hordes
>>62180810
>but nobody else was pursuing it at their own expense
What do you think Industrializatin was?
>>62180849
They lost every single battle. Then the mongolians got bored and stopped trying to expand westward.
>>62180593
No, I mean as scholars, writers and artists.
>>62180754
>Denmark alone did more from 950-1050
>Denmark
Literally never done anything ever as far as I'm aware. Oh right, Legos.
>Swedish """"Empire"""""
>>62180876
>what do you think Industrialization was
It was no doubt a purely British endeavor according to the fucking leaf
>>62180876
Industrialisation or industrialization is the period of social and economic change that transforms a human group from an agrarian society into an industrial one, involving the extensive re-organisation of an economy for the purpose of manufacturing. Nobody could have kicked it off but the Brits at the time, and nobody did it in such scale. If I'm wrong, why didn't they?
>>62180212
>Anna Yaroslavna, daughter of Vladimir the Wise and Queen of France
> Her letters of the period show that she wasn't fond of her new homeland, thinking it was too provincial in comparison to Kiev. In 1050 she writes to her
>father: “What a barbarous country you sent me to – the dwellings are somber, the churches horrendous and the morals – terrible”.
>>62180965
Mainly, yes. The first transformation to an industrial economy from an agricultural one, known as the Industrial Revolution, took place from the mid-18th to early 19th century in certain areas in Europe and North America; starting in Great Britain....FOLLOWED by Belgium, Germany, and France.
>>62180991
No, what you are talking about was already ongoing in France and the German States or pretty much most of western Europe all along.
Btits claim Industrialization for them because they were the first to use the power of a self running mashine for production (steam engine).
And yes, it was done in such a scale.
>>62180956
>as far as I'm aware
you're getting warmer
>>62180754
>And the Swedish Empire did more than the entire Balkan combined (excluding ancient times)
Do you consider the Byzantine Empire "ancient"? I don't. 800+ years ago is fairly recent in historical terms. Balkans were part of it.
>>62181055
But that's not True. Mainland Europeans didn't do it in such scale nor were they the First.
>>62181016
i was thinking more of the second thing he said
>>62181078
>as far as I'm aware
>you're getting warmer
I'm acting as a human mirror.
>>62181104
The Byzantine is as much Balkan as the British empire is Irish
>>62181250
You just went full retard, I hope you're just trolling at this point.
Constantinople and Thessaloniki are in the Balkans, its multi-ethnic history is closely tied to all Balkan nations who were both Byzantine soldiers and nobility and the Byzantine Empire played a main role in the creation of Slavic Orthodox culture and Eastern European culture in general. There's nothing more Balkan than the Byzantines and all Orthodox Slavs can claim Byzantine heritage as their own.
>>62181525
kekked
>>62179493
>nigga quote sumerians doesn't even mention egyptians, arameans or persians
Greeks
>invented science
>invented modern thought
>invented math
>invented culture that stayed influential for 2500 years
Romans
>invented...plumbing? Oh wait egyptians did that earlier
Greeks.
Greeks inspired Romans. Romans literally copied everything from the Greeks. They were greekboos.
>>62179125
Greeks were important for Rome though, without ancient Greece there'd be no Roman Empire. Also how are the Greeks important for Turks and pakis when it was the Greeks who fucked them up for so long.
Alexander completely destroyed the Persian Empire after one battle.
>>62179226
Moral values which were Epicurean. Which was Greek. Try again. Military also copied a lot of Alexander's tactics.
>stability
There idea of stability was letting more people rule and letting the mulitcultural barbarians also be emperor.
>>62181716
>how are the Greeks important for Turks
>>62179481
They were indo-european
>>62181671
Greek culture is more of a distant ancestor to modern Western culture
We're so far removed from them that its useless to compare us to them directly
>>62181671
Romans conquered the fucking world and give everybody a usable systems while greeks were too busy buttfucking each other in their tiny cities.
Greeks were great thinkers but they sucked at grand strategy.
They conquered half the world with Alexander the great only to have it turn it into ashes right after.
>>62181825
The Sumerian language is not Indo-European, it's an isolate. Not related to any other language.
>>62181055
Britain’s role as the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution were for specific circumstances not able too be followed as soon or in such scale as other Europeans for specific reasons. For one, it had the greatest deposits of coal and iron ore, which proved essential for industrialization. Also, Britain was a politically stable society. Mainland Europe was a cluster fuck internally every other year. Also they were world’s leading colonial power, which meant its colonies could serve as a source for raw materials, as well as a marketplace for manufactured goods. Other Europeans had colonies but none the like of India that was extorted too death. As demand for British goods increased, merchants needed more cost-effective methods of production, which led to the rise of mechanization and the factory system. It would have taken Europe a long time too do this without Britain. Everyone wanted too do it, but nobody was in comfortable enough circumstances too do it, also the Brits were monsters too their own people and the lower classes they found far more expendable than all of you.
>>62181872
>conquered half the world with Alexander great only to have it turn it into ashes right after.
Seleducids lasted for over 300 years, for example. Greek was spoken and Greek philosophy taught all over the Middle East.
>>62178960
Could you exist without your father?
>>62179915
>>62179915
>Christians and barbarians burning libraries with the records and shit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_technology
Nice meme.
>>62181716
the alphabet
engineering
law system
architecture
infrastructures
>>62181872
>Alexander
>greek
>>62181872
>he is forgetting about Alexander's empire that was won in a single reign of a king, was won with no defeats, was outnumbered 10:1
>>62178960
Isn't Greece far more important than Rome? Didn't we immediately revert too the Dark ages when Rome got destroyed because we lost most of what they gave us? They were good when they were around but irrelevant afterwards. We found lost Greek knowledge that started the Renaissance?
>>62182045
Wonderful things, all done better and earlier by Qin/Han dynasties. Nice try romecucks
>>62178960
hi /his/ :D
both were very important to history, even more the Ancient Greeks though
without arabs preserving Greek "knowledge", without Romans absorbing the Christian church (whivh was pretty much Greek at the time), the Western world would have a totally different face. and yeah, Spain, France, Britain and USA have a large deal of importance too
>>62182097
Not hard when 90+% of that land was ruled by a single entity (Achaemenid empire). Hell, Alexander's empire never even reached their size.
Genghis' achievements, as well as Timur's achievements are objectively more impressive.
>>62179176
>but they were colonies not conquests
You have to conquer an area to colonize it. Colonies tend to exist in strategic areas with good fertility, which also happen to be where the native inhabitants live.
>>62182097
>>62181966
Ok my bad I was wrong.
>>62182045
>the alphabet
Isn't the Latin alphabet really just the Cumaean Greek alphabet? The Romans stole it and modified it.
>>62182026
Irish monks are pretty based. I remember reading about their particular way of hiding and preserving ancient texts from raiders and other shitters. Europe owes them a lot.
>>62182099
We're still studying Greek philsophy and our literature classics are mostly all Greek. Whos studying Roman philosophy? No one because it didn't exist. Romans philosophy was Epicureanism which was Greek.
>>62182160
Never defeated. Outnumbered. Army didn't stop marching.
>unimpressive compared to shitty Genghis who went around with hoards of archers on horses shooting at unarmoured peasants in arrid terrain that was completely nothing.
You are forgetting that Greeks invented battle tactics also.
>>62182205
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_the_Indo-Greeks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_Kingdom
>>62182211
The Romans got it from the Etruscans who got it from Greeks who got it from Phoenicians who got it from who the fuck knows. There's not point in this continuous "did it first" mentality, as Greece itself was hugely influenced by the near east since the Minonans were around.
>"The die is cast"
>roman empire literally dies
Thanks Julius, you fucking faggot
>>62182099
>when Rome got destroyed because we lost most of what they gave us?
That didn't happen in the East, and Rome lasted until Turks took Constantinople. Rome's influence can be seen after with European rulers claiming the title of Caesar (emperor) and European cultural movements seeking to copy not just Greek, but Roman, culture as well. This had a strong influence until the appearance of nationalisms when various peoples decided to look for cultural masturbation material through own national myths rather than through Graeco-Roman culture.
>>62182331
Roman culture was literally just Greek culture.
>>62182331
>the Byzantine Empire was Roman
Stop this meme
>>62182298
So if who did it first wasn't relevant, is who spread the knowledge relevant? Because the Romans weren't the ones who spread the Latin alphabet. That happened in the middle ages.
>>62182289
You are simply idiotic. Alexander would not even by Genghis' third best general, lmao. A babby who got gifted the best army in the world, then marched until his men literally refused to continue (that would never happen with Genghis), died and left behind a fractured and shitty empire.
The Mongols fucked everyone between Poland and Korea. They were the scourge of GOD HIMSELF.
>>62182406
Romans were definitely fundamental in making sure that the Latin alphabet would become a standard further spread in the middle ages instead of just another local lost alphabet.
>>62182211
the monkey from 2001:Space Odyssey invented the stick -> that monkey invented space travel too, since everything that came after is derivative.
>>62180132
lmfao
>>62182386
>the Byzantine Empire was not Roman
Stop this meme.
There's a direct unbreaking state continuity and the use of Greek language didn't prevent them for calling themselves Romans and the state Roman. The invented term that is the "Byzantine Empire" is just a practical way for modern historians to say "medieval Romans". How can you even attempt making such an argument?
inb4 HRE was Roman
>>62182099
No.
>>62182150
>without arabs
You mean christian slaves
>>62182464
I don't understand. How were the Romans fundamental in making sure the Latin alphabet would be spread? They weren't around. Why do we acknowledge the Romans for the Latin alphabet? They didn't create it and they weren't the ones who spread it. People in the middle ages did.
>>62182495
Stupid analogy in this context. This is about the alphabet, not what came from the alphabet.
>>62182417
China aside, Mongols fought fractured kingdoms. Mongols were beaten on several occasions.
>>62182386
There was no Byzantium, only Rome. Byzantium is a meme name historians made up.
>>62178960
the ottoman empire
>>62178960
romans obviously since it is through them that christianism spread
>>62182495
>2001:Space Odyssey
Couldn't watch it to the end, boring as fuck movie. Just the ape scene was 20 minutes.
>>62180220
t. anglo
>>62182632
Stop pretending to be retarded m8, people in the middle ages all over Europe didn't just happen to share the alphabet of some tribe in central Italy for no reason.
both are more important than leaf
>>62182625
oh boy here we go again with that shit
arabs translated the greek shit not european slaves
>>62180010
>Bulletproof Vest
Jan Sczepaniak
>Mine detector
Józef Kosacki and Andrzej Garboś
>Movie projector
Kazimierz Prószyński
>Walkie-Talkie
Henryk Magnuski
>Aleksander Wolszczan, was the first to discover planets outside our solar system.
>Professor Hilary Koprowski invented an oral polio vaccine (Heine-Medin disease).
>Nikodem Cybulski discovered the hormones produced by the adrenal medulla (adrenaline, noradrenaline and dopamine) in 1895. Because these were the first hormones to be described, Cybulski may be regarded as a pioneer of endocrinology.
>Ernest Malinowski developed and was responsible for the construction of the highest railway line in the world, Callao-La Oroya in Peru.
>Rafał Modrzejweski designed many of the bridges in the United States, including the Benjamin Franklin Bridge in Philadelphia.
>Stefan Drzewiecki became famous as the designer of some of the first submarines (1877). He was the first to establish aerodynamics laboratories. He also developed the theory of screw propellers and later thehelical propulsion theory . He also constructed a new type of water turbine with lateral uptake. Designers Drzewiecki, Rogalski, and Wigura set up the RWD company, which produced sports planes. They also designed the RWD-5 sport plane, in which Stanisław Skarżyński flew across the Atlantic in 1933.
>Wladyslaw J. Swiatecki, who invented the slip bomb device (which the British claimed to have invented)
>>62182331
So, the Romans were better than Greeks because people wanked to them like today's superheroes and fairy tales and named their kings after Cesare like a couple of fanboys?
>>62182573
So If I speak Greek, have more Greek culture and am in closer proximity to Greece than Rome, but I call myself Roman because centuries ago I was in the east end of their empire, am I Roman?
>>62182769
Yeah, it's called the Church.
>>62182573
>>There's a direct unbreaking state continuity and the use of Greek language didn't prevent them for calling themselves Romans and the state Roman.
>if a dog calls himself a cat, he is a cat
>>62180933
revisionistic pig pls go
Greeks were essential to humanity, romans weren't. You can delete romans from history, and germanic tribes would eventually funnel into the same middle-age grab, perhaps with persian flavour now. Modern human race simply wouldn't be the same without greeks contribution.
>b-but muh christianity
Its dumb to attribute christianity to romans as they mostly opposed/tolerated it until it was too late
>>62182920
>it's a Ivan gets drunk and shitposts episode
>>62182920
idg why do people itt say "christianity"
how is christianity important to humanity? i'd rather skip that period 2bh
skip all 3 abrahamic religions
and if you can just remove all religion
Romans were cooler and more fascinating too read about but Greeks were far more important.
>>62182625
greek slaves yeah
didn't stop there though. muslims didn't only copy the greek work but expanded it and "corrected" it. we wouldn't have math without stuff like zero notation and algebra, and no math = no modern world, just as much as no crusades = no buying those muslim books = no modern world
>>62182920
Cant expect a non-european to understand the effect christianity had on europe
>>62182842
>in closer proximity to Greece than Rome
It WAS Rome, not Greece. They called themselves Romans and were the same state. When the last Western Emperor, the Eastern one was recognised as the sole Roman Emperor. Justinian even held Italy for a while.
The physical location of the city of Rome is irrelevant when the capital was Constantinople.
>have more Greek culture
Like worshipping a Semitic God? When you're an empire lasting 1500 years, your culture will change and evolve. Their retained their Roman identity to the very end and partly even afterwards.
>because centuries ago I was in the east end of their empire
There's no "centuries ago" or "was in the empire" when it's the same fucking state, how thick are you?
>>62182880
No, it's more like "if a cat starts eating different food, it's still a cat".
It's literally the same state.
>>62183002
>its a Giovanni gets mad that his not-really-ancestors weren't so cool after all episode
>>62183018
People are religious all over the world, but christianity slowly reformed so to be compatible with democracy (not being a political power anymore).
Also it unified the west.
>>62179156
You're right, in the sense that Napoleon Bonaparte essentially stirred up nationalism in Europe and separated the great empires: Austria-Hungary, Ottomans, etc. into essentially the same European countries we see today.
The British were more influential in shaping development in Asia, Africa and North America though.
>>62183122
Nice reading comprehension. Where did I say that christianity wasn't important
>>62183018
>how is God descending to Earth as a human to save all our souls, free us from the chains of sin and defeat death important to humanity?
Gee, I don't know.
>>62178960
ITT: /int/ has a better /his/ discussion than actual /his/
We should just remove that shitty board already.
>>62183018
>he writes in Latin alphabet, preserved and spread by the christian church
>>62183137
Rome collapsed as we know it with the Western Empire. The East was territory of the Romans previous but they weren't Romans. You're using a glorified namesake as proof. They spoke Greek and were closer to Greece, and were Greeks. Simply calling yourself Romans dosen't make it so. Calling Byzantium Roman is HRE tier.
>>62183205
wait are you seriously saying this?
like you're serious right now?
>>62183276
what?
>>62181671
poland confirmed for third rome?
>>62183261
But the two worst contributors to /his/ are /int/ and /pol/. Even in this discussion there clearly are people with no knowledge of history.
>>62178960
Even when the Romans were the dominant power in Europe, it was required for most Roman nobility to have a firm grasp of the Greek language. That shows how much of an influence the Greeks had on Rome.
Rome basically borrowed everything from Greece and made it more efficient which allowed them to conquer where Greece had failed.
>>62183261
all because of the flags desu. they trigger and stimulate debates
>>62183298
I am Greek.
>>62183416
Flags are pretty great. Mine makes people mad.
>>62183137
>if a state speaks a different language, has a completely different political structure, has a different cultural base, and has completely split from it's previous state, it is still the same state
Ok fampai
>>62183508
I am Greek.
>tfw romans managed to create better concrete than ours
>>62183298
I'm literally punching the table at how fuckign stupid you are, you fucking leaf-eating baby seal genocidal mooseman piece of shit.
>Rome collapsed as we know it with the Western Empire.
No, it did not and no one at the time viewed it like that. West Emperors symbols of power were shipped to Constantinople and the Pope in Rome continued to recognise him as the Emperor of Rome all the way until the whole Charlemagne fiasco.
The Western Empire was not an actual state, are you aware of that? East Rome and West Rome were the same state, the Roman Empire, one (1, uno) state. And yes, Eastern Romans were definitely Romans and they called themselves as such. Greek language wasn't even official in the East until some 150 years after the death of the Western Emperor. And following your broken logic of "muh language", you could claim that Romans were just Greeks too since they adopted massive parts of Greek culture like religion, architecture and philosophy.
>and were Greeks
The most basic part of being Greek is calling yourself like that. Which is something that Byzantines didn't do, they called themselves Roman, Romaioi. Being "Hellenic" was associated with being a pagan. Turks called them Roman, Slavs called them Roman, etc. It's only the retarded Germanics that later on decided to revise history.
>Calling Byzantium Roman is HRE tier.
No, denying the Romaness of the Byzantines is HRE tier because that whole train of thought comes from Western retardation.
>>62183530
it's like a retarded peru that earned its leaf badge during camping
>>62183337
>wait are you seriously saying this?
>like you're serious right now?
Fully, yes.
>>62183337
Christianity managed to salvage what was left of civilization in Europe after shtf during the migration period. Monasteries spread literacy and knowledge, we're the last country to become christian in Europe and 1st book in Lithuanian was in 16th century despite having a centralized country for hundreds of years prior.
Obviously islam is shite but I'm in no position to comment on it's advantages/disadvantages over prior religions in the region.
>>62178960
Reminder that every important leader in ancient civilizations starting from Sumeria had blue eyes, a trait that only came from Nordic countries.
>>62183579
Tbh it's hard to believe romans are related to current italians, no offense m8.
>>62183618
>TL;DR I think if people call themselves Romans they were Romans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_East_and_Latin_West
Byzantium (/bJˈzæntiəm/ ; Greek: Βυζάντιον Byzántion) was an ancient Greek colony on the site that later became Constantinople
>>62183579
>2000 AD + 16 geo-helio revolutions
>not using volcanic ash in your concrete
>>62183715
Said the western faggy italian
>>62183550
>has a completely different political structure
>has a different cultural base
>has completely split from it's previous state
All of these are completely wrong. Are you one of those dumb tards who think that the East-West split was an actual split of the Roman state into two states? Rome: Total War: Barbarian Invasions is not a good historical source.
And Latin was still used in parts of the Byzantine Empire.
Did Bulgaria stop being Bulgaria when it started using a Slavic language instead of a Turkic one?
>>62183679
well Islam took a nation of mother fucking beduins (literal mother fuckers) who knew nothing about anything and made an empire
but I guess I see your point
Christianity had its pros and cons just like Islam
t. a fedora
>>62183671
errrrrrrrrrrrr
>>62183724
>tl;dr I'm retarded and refuse to stop being retarded
>Byzantium (/bJˈzæntiəm/ ; Greek: Βυζάντιον Byzántion) was an ancient Greek colony on the site that later became Constantinople
Your point being?
>>62183791
>Rome: Total War: Barbarian Invasions is not a good historical source.
>>62183150
>Also it unified the west.
"""the west""" became unified only after ww2.
>>62183847
>Your point being?
They were Greek. They spoke Greek and had Greek culture. The Normans were French because they spoke French and had French culture. Calling yourself Roman does not make you Roman.
>>62183715
roman is a social construct.
>>62183780
we kept probably more of our roman heritage than you did but we are nothing like italians.
>>62183966
In all levels except physical, I am Roman.
>>62179156
I agree, French was the ligua franca after Latin became a language for the clergy and France was the most important country for the enlightenment, however Western culture without a renaissance would have been inconceivable so Italy is actually more important than the Brits given this historic role, then there's Spain's role in the 17th Century when it became the dominant country in Europe , not only through it's own culture but in its role of funneling the wealth of Mexico and Peru which allowed Europe to posses enough of a surplus it could afford to mantain an intellectual class, the Brits come after that, but in the early history of Europe more because of how it helped shapé Europe, especially France and Spain than because of its own culture which doesn't become dominant until the 19th century which is certainly theirs... Ranking becomes difficult after that, Portugal and the Netherlands each played very key and necessary roles, as did the Austrians, Germany becomes relevant in terms of culture in the 18th century but its culture only becomes influential in the 19th, likewise with Russia... Then you have the smaller contributors like Poland and Sweden although at this point the contributions of colonial nations such as Mexico and Brasil become arguably as important, in the 20th century the US becomes ascendant to such an extent as to nearly re-define Westerndom so it is difficult to place, especially given it's technical and scientific contributions do enormously magnify it's importance. After that you'd rank the rest on a criteria based on whether you'd favor art, science, history or philosophy... It is an interesting thought exercise.
>>62178960
You can't rank these, without Greece there's no Western Civilization, including the Romans themselves. Without Rome However that civilization would have amounted to only an influence on Middle Eastern, Central Asian and North African peoples, there simply is no West and no Europe without Rome.
>>62183936
>They were Greek.
They didn't consider themselves Greeks and they weren't considered Greek.
>le language
So Canucks and Algerians are Frenchmen? Got it, thanks.
>had Greek culture
How exactly does being an emperor/caesar, calling yourself Roman, being open to multi-ethnicism and worshipping a Jew fit into having Greek culture?
>Calling yourself Roman does not make you Roman
Being the Roman Emperor of the Roman Empire, having Roman citizenship and following Christianity which was in its early ages time closely associated with Romanhood is what makes you Romans and that's all Byzantines. Some of them continued to speak Latin as well, like the Dalmatian Byzantines.
Picture related, according to your infinite stupidity, the """"Greek"""" Empire.
>>62183936
Greeks were considered "roman" even in the original roman empire, when jews would rebel against "romans" they'd burn down greek towns.
>>62184142
>They are Romans because they call themselves Romans and do some roman things that everyone else was doing too
Is that all you really all you have mate? HRE tier.
>>62183791
>Total War: Rome isn't a good historical source
>t. literally cannot defend his position beyond saying "But they called themselves Romans!!1!one1!!"
>>62184236
Romans were considered Romans. Greeks were considered Greeks. The Romans admired the Greeks and specifically made them teachers.
lmfao yo, we Rome now.
>>62184142
Why the fuck do you keep seriously replying to a fucking leaf?
>>62184360
Um, I'm actually Roman. Don't you see the alphabet I'm using? Check your privileged.
>>62184255
>They Greeks because language
That all you have?
>>62184270
I already made numerous points. There is no serious modern historian who will deny that Byzantine Empire is simply Roman, if you attended a functional secundary education institution, you would know that.
>>62184360
I must be as retarded as he is, I guess.
>>62184410
>unironically using a script derived from the Pheonecian alphabet
>GeorgeCostanzaDoingThatFuckingFace.jpg
>>62184454
>That all you have?
That and the fact they were Greeks.
>>62183715
>>62183753
with "ours" i meant modern concrete, not only italian
>>62184478
So what you're saying is, essentially, I am Greek?
Guys, can I be roman too?
>>62184681
Essentially you're a leaf.
>>62184703
Only if you call yourself Roman
>>62184454
>I already made nunerous points
Almost all of which boil down to them thinking of themselves as Roman. That doesn't mean they were Roman
>>There is no serious modern historian who will deny that Byzantine Empire is simply Roman
There's no serious modern historian that would consider the Byzantine Empire a cultural and political twin of the Western Roman Empire. They're not the same state
>>62184703
Third Rome.
>>62184746
Leafs grow on trees, Romans had tree, therefore I am Roman.
>>62183874
During the middle age and later on people could travel to other western countries and were able to exchanged ideas because the educated few spoke latin.
>>62184703
>people still don't acknowledge the fact that the Russian empire was the 3rd Rome
Plebeian tier at best
>>62183628
el canadiANO
>>62184792
was ERE not roman from it's conception? when did it stop? was Rome temporarily not Rome when the speaking only in Greek fad was prominent
>>62184863
CIVILIZATIONS POWER RANKING
1. Indus valley civ
.....
.....
POWER GAP
......
......
2. Sumerian Civilization
3. Chinese Civ
4. Greek civ
.........
.........
POWER GAP
.........
.........
9000. Snow nigger western civs
>>62184882
I guess I'm British or French because Canada was at it's conception. Byzantium had the worst case of Stockholm syndrome/ muh heritage of all time apparently.
i´ll just leave this here
>>62184927
says no one ever
Best empire reporting in
>>62184997
/thread
>>62184927
>when a loo deficient nation thinks it's relevant near me
>>62184927
agreed
>>62184804
>Almost all of which boil down to them thinking of themselves as Roman
Try reading my posts.
>Byzantine Empire
>Western Roman Empire
>They're not the same state
The "Western Roman Empire" was not an actual state. The East-West division was purely an administrative one. It was two emperors (at times even four of them) ruling the same Roman state.
At no point in time is there some sort of a political event where Roman Empire ends and Byzantine Empire begins. It was the same state and was universally regarded as such until the Pope decided that female Emperors are not a thing and crowned Charlemagne. When you have a people calling themselves Romans and everyone agreeing with it, you can't just go "uh, but I don't like that" and pretend that it's not true.
>>62184997
>even the Finns don't want the Balkans
Latin is one of the most beautiful languages ever, Ancient Greek sounds like some hoary old man vomiting in your ear. Seriously, listen to that shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F7ZBqptugI
>>62184977
>I guess I'm British or French because Canada
If the capital of the UK was moved to Canada and British Isles were conquered while the UK retained its lands in Canada, then yes, you would be British.
>>62185135
It sounds like some magic spell, not hoary old man vomiting.
>>62185281
Rome(the capital) was never moved to the eastern Roman empire. Rome collapsed. Their former Greek colony who were Roman in self conflating name only remained.
>>62185281
>if the capital moved to Canada before the British Isles were conquered, you would be British
Literally fucking no
>>62185281
>If the capital of the UK was moved to Canada and British Isles were conquered while the UK retained its lands in Canada, then yes, you would be British.
No, Britain would cease to exist. We'd be formerly British.
>>62185135
Sounds like Spanish.
