Nation-states are obsolete
Prove me wrong
>>61994096
No, the burden of proof is on YOU to signal alternatives. Most of the world has been OK with nation states since the 17th century.
Do you prefer tribes, anarcho-sindicalism, or utopic communism?
>the burden of proof is on YOU
>>61994222
Supernational unions
>Most of the world has been OK with nation states
LITERALLY not an argument
>>61994272
...what phrase would you have preferred?
>>61994096
No one can. Long live the EU.
>>61994325
The 4 countries with the highest quality of life are Norway, Switzerland, Australia, and New Zealand.
Small populations, culturally homogeneous (mostly), proud of their culture and heritage.
Does that not vouch for nation-states?
>>61994450
No
All those countries are free market economies and are part of supernational unions.
>>61994494
Being a part of a union does not negate the essential unit of that union being a collection of nation states. The UN is nothing more than the sum of its parts.
Germans and Brits are slavs.
So - no.
>>61994552
Britain is nothing more than the sum of its constituent countries
The US is nothing more than the sum of its states
Etc
>>61994584
Damn! I KNEW I forgot something!
>>61994640
Fuck off
We were better off before EU
>>61994584
Damn I wish I were free.
As free as the Russians.
>>61994640
Yes, exactly. Were it not for vast military expense, the nature of states is balkanization and entropy. We just choose to stop at the nation state because it is most convenient in terms of foreign policy and economics of scale. That and all those irrational factors like patriotism and pride and demographics.
The nation state is here to stay.
>>61994765
Actually, the nature of states over the last 6000 years has been consolidation
The nation state is going away
>>61994750
Hello brother.
Yes you can.
>>61994814
We have more countries now than in the last 300 years. That there is a cycle, I agree. That it tends to end on the atomization of super-unions, well at least I believe so. Empires fall, you know....I mean, except for China, I guess...
>>61994096
Nationstates is obsolete?
What do you mean?
It keeps on getting better, with the issue and trend graphics.
nationstates.net
that's the nationstatrs you're talking about right?
>>61994765
>We just choose to stop at the nation state because it is most convenient in terms of foreign policy and economics of scale.
It naturally always come to stop at the stage that's currently the most effective in terms of production and survivability. With current information/transportation technology and educational possibilities, nation states are obsolete constructs.
>>61994450
>cherrypicked examples
Norway has been an Albania-tier shithole until they discovered vast supplies of the world's most valuable resource. The Swiss are rich, yes, they are a nation of bankers sitting on mountains of gold gathered through centuries. These two are isolated examples. While AUS and NZ are geographocally isolated examples. There's literally no point for nationality-based segregation on a continent like Europe. And as the rest of the world catches up to us in terms of cultural development, the situation will be the same everywhere.
>>61994862
Do you think Isolationalism and Segregation woill increase our freedom?
Actually I've never been a fan of freedom. Don't even know what it is supossed to be.
>>61995198
>There's literally no point for nationality-based segregation on a continent like Europe.
Wait, so I am cherrypicking, but you are saying this can only work in Europe, despite mounting frustration and a member state flat out leaving? And that most countries will turn into Europe if given enough time?
The world is not Europe.
I hope I am not coming off as a prick, I love Europe. I just believe that in Asia, the Americas, Africa, the Middle East, and India, European systems will not work. Not for economic reasons, but cultural, religious, and racial reasons. Most of the world is not chill.
South America for example, speak the same language, and have a common Iberian origin culture. Still divided.
>>61995614
>Still divided
Because you are very dumb.
Dumb people can't into good lives. In Germany dumb people also live shit.
Like Brexit voters. The reasons they gave for voting leave are not even real. They literally had zero knowledge what a EU even is.
This made me think for the first time in my life that basic democracy and referendum are maybe not that good. At least the people should be educated properly before you do them.
>>61995960
I mean, I agree with you, but the world we live in is not ideal. Central America used to be one nation, but we have been balkanizing for 200 years.
Hopefully one day the world can into smart.
>>61995960
democracy is great but democracy isn't just votes and referendums, there's a lot more to it
that's why you shouldn't listen to impatient rorkes who demand constant referendums about this and that
>>61996093
Do I smell Nigger here?
>>61994096
Of course a non-state like Danemark would say this.
>>61995614
That's what I meant by culturally catching up to us. In time people will understand that these divisions are stupid and the only reason they have them is that they used to have them before.
Frustration may be mounting due to some people not wanting refugees, however, Brexit only made anti-EU European parties weaker according to recent polls. Looks like people only like to complain about the current nature of EU leadership but don't by all means want to jump ship. And the people who voted for Brexit are old. The majority of the out camp will die naturally in the next 20-30 years. Even if the UK does leave, which is not sure yet, they will be back in 10 years.
>>61996230
it's like the UK
theoretically scotland and wales could be independent but there's no point
better together
>>61996252
I think you are being too idealistic, but I can't really rebut that. I hope the world becomes more united and puts aside their differences. As for Europe, I guess if old people don't like what you are doing, isn't that a big deal? If so many people don't want refugees, why still take them? Creating disenfranchised minorities with the capacity to feel that they have political pull withing their own borders can only become worse if you create a bigger union with less representation.
Surely a state that is better represented by their government, is naturally a happier one?
>>61996266
I mean...Wales maybe, but half of scotland would disagree heavily.
>>61994096
The end of history will be a very sad time. The struggle for recognition, the willingness to risk one's life for a purely abstract goal, the worldwide ideological struggle that called forth daring, courage, imagination, and idealism, will be replaced by economic calculation, the endless solving of technical problems, environmental concerns, and the satisfaction of sophisticated consumer demands. In the post-historical period there will be neither art nor philosophy, just the perpetual caretaking of the museum of human history. I can feel in myself, and see in others around me, a powerful nostalgia for the time when history existed....Perhaps this very prospect of centuries of boredom at the end of history will serve to get history started once again.
>>61996549
>I guess if old people don't like what you are doing, isn't that a big deal?
These are people who grew up back in systems where even if you weren't prohibited/discouraged from making your own opinion and thoughts about something it definitely wasn't part of our culture. It sill isn't completely, but back then it was much less so. Also, these are sort of the old people who will dislike pretty much anything that's new. Their votes should count as democracy is an either 100% or not at all thing, but you shouldn't give them much thought. Their pension and everything is much better under the economies they oppose if that's what concerns you.
Your refugee reasoning is a valid point of view. However, whether this thing turns into a disaster or something great depends on our ability to cope with new things and differing arguments. This pertains to everyone, left and right. I am hopeful and convinced that we will be able to manage. Also, I personally regard it as a moral issue not to let millions of people die or live hellishly shitty lives for reasons in which EU countries are heavily responsible. And I don't mean "boo hoo colonialism". The West actively contributed to the ruination of the Middle-East with shitty foreign policy decisions well into the XX. and XXI. century.
