Any good parts of Islam from your eyes? Any verses that you find interesting?
>>61889804
hello red qatar
I like that islam is like the 2nd most zen religion(after buddhism ofc)
Islam is like so chill like damn
None, fuck off.
>>61889804
Are you Shia?
>>61889804
Islam is a cancer invented by jew and must be removed from earth's surface
fug islam :-DDD
>>61889804
>Any good parts of Islam from your eyes?
It was a good thing for the human mentality thousand year ago.
>>61889884
Nah, Sunni.
>>61889857
;( I'm trying to make peace man, that's literally what Islam means.
>>61889853
KIL 5ARA AND GET OUT OF MY FACE. DAYOOS
>>61889853
i heard that you can ONLY rape non muslims! what an amazing peaceful religion.
>>61889956
Fuck S*nnis
>>61889956
>peace
>ignoring that your prophet was an actual warlord
>>61889997
Rape is punishable by death. And no, you really can not rape non-muslims. Maybe an obscure hadith or two says that, if so, link me the hadith, the author, and I'll find a way to determine the validity.
>>61889937
Do you get stoned now by angry mob?
Arab and Persian women tend to be very hot!
>>61890135
Do you get fucked now by horny moroccan ?
>>61890102
As far as I know, he's literally the only man that was able to unite the Arab world, literally makes him a prophet simply because of that. Literally. And so what if he was a "warlord" he brought stability to the region, his actions created new empires, taught us to fight even in the face of defeat, and to top it off nullified sick cultural traditions such as burial of women for simply being women among other things. Removing my Islamic lens allows me to determine that he was a revolutionary figure for his time.
>>61889804
Since I've read Maro Polo I liked the Hashashim
Sufism also is quite fascinating I think, also Perisa's Shia (but Zoroastrianism kicks ass!)
>>61889804
>Any good parts of Islam from your eyes?
Cool architecture
>Any verses that you find interesting?
Don't know any, but I like this proverb:
>"Si la montaña no va a Mahoma, Mahoma va a la montaña"
>"If the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the mountain"
>>61889804
I know too few and a level-headed exchange is usually difficult. Post some of your favorite verses!
I wonder if they really believe the stupidity of the prophet, the virgins in the paradise and the worship of the black rock, or mostly just pretend.
I like that it is the antithesis to feminism and that's just about it. Everything else I despise.
it being not my religion
>>61889804
you dont know me
so dont assume you know my beliefs
>>61889804
Don`t have any real quotes but I admire their prayer probably not all of them but that is been really religious, pretty strict with discipline.
>>61890235
Hashashin, they are fascinating, but overly exaggerated. Most of the sources we have of them come from Sunnis/Crusaders whom they actively fought, so not much is known about them. They preferred theology over history.
Sufism is interesting, I sadly do not know much about it, I would like someone to tell me a lot about Sufism. Shiasm is not really Persian though!
>>61890247
Indeed, the architecture is very beautiful, most of it is derived from Persian/Roman architecture, and now it's called Islamic, that's the funny thing about conquering whole Empires. :P
I never heard that quote before btw.
>>61889804
>>61889804
Hello Bahrain, I was stationed at Fifth Fleet HQ there a couple years ago.
>good parts: Honorable tradition
>bad parts: everything, since Muslim extremists don't follow the example set by Saladin
>>61890222
>he was a revolutionary figure for his time
Yes, as far as described in the Quran and Hadith, he was.
But there is simply a problem: this man never existed. There are no evidences that this man ever lived or did what you wrote.
>not bullying you
>>61890461
Saladin was an example of a muslim.
I agree with you.
Tradition and functional metaphysics
something the west sorely lacks
Rumi is pretty much Islam's only saving grace imo.
>>61890296
Virgins in paradise? Pretty sure that's a meme, and we don't worship the black rock. The Kabaa is there to represent unity, we all pray towards it, we all circle it in unison once in our life time (if we are physically able to.), and so on.
>>61890270
Well, this is a hadith but I quite like it.
"I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Allah the Almighty said: O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as it."
>>61890422
Probably one of the more disciplined religions out there, that is true.
>>61890571
as you flee in that direction
>>61890721
>we don't worship the black rock. The Kabaa is there to represent unity
A peace of rock to represent the unity, I see.
>>61890721
Also why in the Quran there is a whole chapter about her, and the name of JesusChrist is mentioned more than the one of Mohammed.
>>61889804
How do you feel about Muhammad riding a child?
How do you feel about beheading those who leave Islam?
>>61890774
>peace
*Piece
>>61890721
Thought something about the black rock that it was because it absorbed the sins of man, that it was white, don`t remember were I heard it.
anyway thanks for the info.
>>61890728
never respond to my posts again
>>61889956
It literally means submit
It means submit to God, and by extension, submit to this religion, and question nothing about it
I like 0(zero) parts of it tbqh
>>61889804
>Any good parts of Islam from your eyes?
Certainly not Wahhabism.
>>61890461
I hope you enjoyed your stay. I always find people who served in the U.S. Armed Forces to be more open minded than the average American I talk to. (at least when i went to America on holiday.) Why is that?
Muslim extremists are misguided, they call Jihad for all the wrong reasons, call anyone that doesn't follow their ideology "takfiri" and so on. I agree that they need to be dealt with, however this is a problem within the Muslim community, it steps from within us and only we can properly root it out and destroy it.
>>61890539
Saladin was a politician, a very good one, but what he did to the Shias is a little unfair, if the Quran truly teaches forgiveness and understanding (which I think it does at least.) then I doubt he would've done what he did. He is seen as honorable because of how vile some of the Crusaders were at the time period. (not justifying/unjustifying the crusades.)
>>61890571
I think a good combination of both is healthy, however one thing I would like to admit is that the West is somewhat better when it comes to dealing with hypocrisy.
>>61890774
Christians use the blood of Christ (Whether literal and draws a more metaphysical meaning in the catholic sense, or metaphorical in the protestant sense.), humans will always use metaphors and symbols to express themselves, it's common in every religion.
>>61890776
Well Christ is our prophet as well, and his mother is one of the holiest women to walk on earth. Christians are people of the book after all.
>>61890784
Well, I expected this question, her age is questionable, some say 9 some say 13, some say 15, some even say 18 when the marriage was consummated. As far as I know it was a political marriage, he was a messenger after all, and human, so obviously a product of his time.
I do not think that those who leave Islam should be executed, in the days of the prophet those who left Islam would get no punishment, if they left Islam in rebellion or left Islam then insulted it, they would get punished. Literally one of the most important verses in Islam is the following:
Say: O disbelievers!
I worship not that which ye worship;
Nor worship ye that which I worship.
And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
(Qur'an 109:1-6)
Now I read and quote the Quran in Arabic often, so I do not know if this translation is well enough.
>>61890935
Wahabis are essentially the Protestants of Islam (I don't like comparing sects from different religions to each other, but if it helps you understand it helps you understand.), they really began in the 1800s, and the movement grew exponentially in the 1900s under the influence of the Saudis. They planned to revert 1200 years of Islamic growth and theology and go back to the basics. They are widely misunderstood, but I see why you might not like them.
>>61889804
I hate the part where
>1 you need to kill everybody else who isn't islam
>2 you need to kill all Jew regardless, oh wait it is redundant with 1.
No, the non-believers are just misguided humans, we even give them chance to convert before kill. On the other hand jews aren't human beings. So it isn't redundant.
>3 women are considered tool with almost no rights, violence is advised when they disobey, just don't hit them in face so it isn't visible.
It feels like conditioning a dog to me. You just don't go fuck your dog, wait what do you guys do in Africa?
>4 you need to kill anybody who would try to explain Qur'an in different, probably less vicious script.
Great great thing. Maybe this is the reason why you still live like that in the middle east and rest of world developed.
>5 sharia.
That thing is just ridiculous. Like our modern laws are constantly changing due to advancement in life, technology and believes and you claim you should live like our ANCESTORS 5 000+ YEARS AGO??
>6 you can't draw unless it is for education purpouses.
Just LOL. I bet listening to mp3 would also been forbidden if it was a thing in the days some madman put this together in one book.
>7 the Jihad aka holy war with promises of 72GB of DDR4 RAM.
The thing some book promises you so much random access memory for killing and being killed in useless conflict speaks itself.
>8 your polygamy.
We have proximately 1 horny guy to 1 horny girl in all the ranges of age = less conflicts in society.
You have 1 old rich fag with 20 women. The rest 19 horny frustrated brainwashed boys are planning next suicide bombing and girls are afraid to give away virginity because then they will be WORTHLESS, so they do ANAL instead. Yea, my believes my ass.
Wait I like one thing:
>9 muh believes based on how fast the pork goes bad in hot desert 9999 years ago forbids me eating DELICIOUS TASTY PORK.
This makes the prices of pork down hard in countries with Islam, so cheaper meat for me.
Opium is allowed
>>61889956
kol 3ir KANEETH
>>61891317
Do you drink alcohol?
Taking any drugs?
What do you think about the Saudi's engagement in Bahrain in 2011?
>>61889804
I guess I like the whole charity aspect in that it's every Muslim's duty to provide some charity for those in need.
And I liked how in the Golden Age you could actually criticize Islam without getting beheaded for it.
>>61889804
I like the part where they kill each other.
>>61891528
>What do you think about the Saudi's engagement in Bahrain in 2011?
Interesting question.
Aren't most people on Bahrian Persian speaking Shias, making it rightful Iranian clay?
>>61890940
>I always find people who served in the U.S. Armed Forces to be more open minded than the average American I talk to. (at least when i went to America on holiday.) Why is that?
Because your Marine has actually left the USA and met other people in their own country, unlike the average American
>>61891450
First of all your entire post is riddled with generalizations or misunderstandings. Read the verse I just linked right above your post and you'll understand that we are not allowed to kill anyone who is not Muslim.
I am assuming you got the Jew part for a Hadith? Well I'll have you know the hadith that mentioned "Kill the Jews behind the rocks!!" or something along those lines is incredibly unreliable. On top of that your statement does not explain the fact that Jews and Muslims lived relatively peaceful alongside each other compared to Europe. (We did not murder 7 million Jews.) You'll find examples of this in Al-Andalus, which when the Christians "returned" (They really never left, they lived relatively peacefully alongside us, name me one Christian state that co-existed with Muslims in that time period?) they almost destroyed the entire Jewish population of Iberia.
Number three is such a bad statement, read the Quran instead of browsing memes from /r/Donald or /pol/.
Number four, refer back to the first statement.
Sharia is different from each Mathab to Mathab (School of Understanding/Thought.), there is no single Sharia, and there is no state that fully implements Sharia. Most of what you probably think as Sharia, isn't Sharia. Sharia can be violent, yes I agree, Sharia can also be benevolent, just like any other system of law out there.
That's different based on Mathabs, again. Listen, if you hate Islam so much, go study it, else you'll probably end up killing some Hindus or Buddhists that look Muslim.
>>61889804
The whole thing is monotheistic and Allah is purportedly omnipotent and all that jazz. So, if a muslim stubs his toe, the whole thing is bunk.
>>61889804
Well it is an interesting thing but i love god's irony
Like there was this nazi dude who was hitler's left hand or something and when he tried to suicide he just shot his 2 eyes at once, and they locked him to a hospital afterwards, i just find ironic punishments like this fascinating, we had a writer in turkey that said "age 30, we have come to the half of the road" and he died in his 38 or something lmao, i know it is not about islam but it just fascinates me in general
>>61891776
>We did not murder 7 million Jews
We didn't either.
>>61890222
By that logic, Genghis Khan was an even bigger prophet than Muhammed. Maybe you should pray to him instead and worship Baghdad as the holy land.
>>61891513
7aboob <3
>>61891528
Well, I did fall into alcoholism in the past, thankfully I'm out of that hole.
I never took drugs besides nicotine. :P
And well, that's a difficult question to answer, I feel democracy will come eventually, we have been promised it for a while, lol, but I would rather have a somewhat stable sole leader leading us, than what happened to Syria. Democracy will come to the Gulf, just like it came to the U.K., with slow reforms. I would rather the Saudis did not interfere. However, if I had to choose between the Iranians and the Saudis... The Saudis for sure.
>>61891569
Yeah, I often give a part of my paycheck to charity, thankfully we don't really need much of it in Bahrain, I think because we give charity so often, to our people and others. (I will admit the Bahranis are facing some difficulties that are not self-imposed.)
Well, different times, and different emirates had different laws. Criticism is not always insulting, I wish some of my brothers understood that, insults with no point besides insulting a person, I do not like.
>>61891632
There are Persians, but they are rare and mostly keep to themselves, most Bahrainis do not speak a bit of Farsi.
>>61891636
Well it's the Navy that's stationed here, not the Marines (although I think we have a few.) but I do understand your point.
>>61892016
:^)
>>61892065
Ahaha, I do see a hole in my logic now, but no the statement still somewhat stands, he did what no man could do.
I like the fact that their women are not whores.
I like fasting during ramadan, not sure if it's healthy but it sure proves your power of will.
I like the idea of inereste free banking(although I'm not sure it's being practiced)
>>61892143
Dude you know how hard not fapping all the time it is ? It is a test of will really
>>61891941
>"age 30, we have come to the half of the road"
That seems like a pretty popular trope during the antiquity/middle ages/whatever. The Divine Comedy starts with a similar sentence.
>>61892143
Well, the whore bit is kind of a generalization, but both men and women tend to save themselves for marriage. (It is becoming less and less common sadly.)
Fasting is great, although some people cheat, sleep from morning till the night and eat, fuck those people.
That exists but is rare, we need to bring it back no? Having a set fee is ten times better.
>>61892139
Like what? Creating a divided religion that is not even the largest religion in the world? Uniting sand people against other sand people? Anybody could do that with the right environment and right circumstances. There are military leaders far better than he ever was, and politicians that were more charismatic than he was. People far more brilliant walked the earth, and yet no body prays to them because it is stupid. Such a thing only happens in sand land because they have nothing but religion.
>>61892329
Really ? I should read it then
>>61892474
>Having a set fee is ten times better.
No.Interest rates can be only as high as your economy growth.Otherwise, you are being ask to pay back more money than it exist in the money supply.
So if your GDP growth is 5% and your interest rate is 8%, there is no way you can cover that 8%, other than borrowing more money and going into debt slavery. That's why the whole world is in huge debt, and entire banking system is a huge pyramid scheme that is bound to colapse.
>>61892484
We do not pray to the Prophet, we pray to God, the Prophet was simply his messenger, he was a man and that is all. It does not matter how large a religion is. And it's never been done before in the Arab world, I mean sure there have been figures that created religions, but the extensive role he played, the fact that what he created ended up changing the fabric of history, is quite an achievement. Insult the man all you want, he was the definition of a Great man. (if you subscribe to that theory of history, I know most people don't.)
>>61889804
the kek worthy cartoons it lead to
>>61892670
Then how is having a set fee bad?
>>61892484
>Creating a divided religion that is not even the largest religion in the world?
Sunnis are 80 to 90% of Muslims and Sunni Muslims actually outnumber Catholics which are the largest group of Christians even if Protestants are all lumped together
>>61892728
Well if your GDP goes below that set fee, then you wont be able to repay it and youll end up being a debt slave again.
>>61892692
The Chinese worship a similar man, and they hang his portrait n every house and government building. He killed many millions of his own kind, and destroyed centuries of Chinese history so that he could start anew. The way he died was pathetic, and so was Muhammed's. Who is greater I wonder?
>>61889804
Good and informing thread, wish more people would be as educated as you are. gonna have a few beers now. good night, guys
>>61892692
>And it's never been done before in the Arab world
Islam seems to be a product of Arab culture and shaped to fit only Arab culture. It seems to be a purely Arab religion.
>>61889804
Values can generally be pretty good. They at least believe in one God, in giving to the poor, discipline, etc.
Also Sufi traditions are pretty cool, though it's unfortunate Islam doesn't really have much of a monastic tradition.
>>61891776
I see you took your time to ease the "public view" on Muslims and actually you are trying your best to overcame some of my statements mostly by logic fallacies but oh well.
Also I forget about the part where you are allowed to lie about anything when facing possible persecution or when spreading Islam. So basically by this fact alone I can assume any Muslim to be a liar. Not to mention anybody can lie, but you guys even have a exception in your rulebook.
>generalizations or misunderstandings
You are valid on this, I can't even post the link to website where is the selection of "best verses" translated to my language because I am lazy. Still not much valid argument.
>we are not allowed to kill anyone
Christians are the same on this rule mate. But that doesn't change the fact that when I hear in the TV terrorism I also hear Islam. The chances of me dieing by hands of terrorist are lower than in car crash, but still, get your shit together before you move to my favorite country Germany.
>7 million Jews
>Jews and Muslims lived relatively peaceful
Yea mate. Nice argument. I can't deal with this. It only shows that when in Europe we decide to do something, WE FUCKING WILL and will do it EFFICIENTLY. Just reminder it had nothing to do with our religion. If you guys were such efficient and skilled, there would be no Jews left in middle east. You just sucks.
>woman rights
>bad statement, read the Quran instead of browsing memes
You just forced me to post the link. 20+ nice examples.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/women-worth-less.aspx
And it isn't just about the written verses. It is actually what and how do you handle women in your countries. And it is just bad.
>if you hate Islam so much, go study it
I DON'T HATE ISLAM. JUST THE PEOPLE WHO CLAIMS THEY DO. If I would be Muslim, I would deny it based on what people do these days in it's name.
>end up killing some
We mostly don't do this in Europe. Or we try to.
Fix your religion.
>>61892860
So just like interest then? I'm not the best at economics brate, got any books that you recommend that could give me some insight?
>>61892885
Well not really, in the Quran or a Hadith (I'm no Hafiz.) the Prophet said that Islam changes based on cultures, and I guess so does the Sharia.
>>61892869
Not in the same way, we do not worship a man. I'm not bothered to explain basic theology to you. "Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion."
>>61892993
>Well not really, in the Quran or a Hadith (I'm no Hafiz.) the Prophet said that Islam changes based on cultures, and I guess so does the Sharia.
He did? That's neat. Can you link me to the hadith?
But then why do fucking muslim converts here in Belgium take on Arab names and Arab dress? God I hate them!
>>61893060
>But then why do fucking muslim converts here in Belgium take on Arab names and Arab dress? God I hate them!
Haha, wow. I read an article about muslims in Japan or some shit, and one guy was named Mohammed, and then some standard Japanese surname. It's just so silly.
>>61892976
>mfw i treat women like godesses while i live in muslim country and i still dont have a gf
>>61892993
Just watch "Money as Debt" documentary
>>61889804
None, Islam will never be respected until it can take criticisms and not chimp out whenever somebody draws a picture of Muhammed. Until then, people will always see it as a religion of barbarians even if they do tolerate it.
>>61889804
I like that Islam is the extreme red pill when it comes to women. I think all Western men who came home after a 12 hour shift to find their wife fucking nigger Jim next door only for her to be "punished" by being given the house and the kids would convert to Islam in a heart beat if they really came to learn how based and red pilled Islam truly is when it comes to women.
>>61892976
First of all, Taqiyah is a Shia thing, and done only when in danger, even then, as I said before, I am not a Shiite.
If you are lazy, how is it my fault?
Well, I never said Islam and Islamic terrorism are separate, read the post I said before. These people twist verses and at times whole Surahs away from the common understanding. They literally use the same verses that we use in order to justify their violence, yes I understand that makes them "muslim" in your eyes, however I do not agree with that they have to say, or how they go on about "saving" the Ummah, according to the majority of Imams, Da3ish, Al-Qaeda and so on are Khawarij. And I would agree with that, however it is still a Muslim problem.
Anyway, I support the Palestinian cause, but I would never advocate the genocide of a whole race. Only thing I get from the history of Islamic-Judaeo relations is that there is hope for peace and co-existence, something I would like to see in my life time.
Did you seriously link to thereligionofpeace.com? Read the following Surah: Women. You'll learn all you need to learn about Muslim views towards women. Not just bits and pieces from a Surah thats 50 pages long.
If you would deny expressing your beliefs because of shame that other people have twisted what you believe in, then you would give them victory.
>>61890940
I think military people actually interact with foreign people much more than average Americans due to all the overseas bases, which opens a lot of minds. Honestly, I thought Bahrain was great. Great food for sure.
Islam is the spiritual version of arab imperialism.
Prove me wrong.
>>61893330
>>61893576
both of these
>>61892976
>implying treating women as anything but subordinate cattle is a bad thing.
>>61890103
You are literally allowed by Kur'on.
Dont lie to people to promote your religion fucktard
>>61893649
>the only possible positions are 21st-century western feminism and 7th-century bedouin tribal savagery
in the future, try not to be such a fucking retard who thinks only in extremes
>>61893060
Yes, I assume so, I will try to find it, it's been ages since I properly read the Quran, if any Muslims here are more knowledgeable with the Quran and the hadiths I'll let them answer. I find it silly that they take on Muslim names, but desu all of Europe and the Americas including parts of Asia and Africa took on Jewish names when Christianity was introduced. People just like naming themselves after prophets.
>>61893276
Will do.
>>61893330
If it's criticism, I will not mind it, if it's mindless insults, then I will find it annoying and silly.
>>61893475
Well adultery is punishable. However, even if you are divorced you have to provide for your wife and so on. (Not in the case of adultery I believe, I am kinda shocked that you guys have no laws against adultery in the West, it's murder of the heart or whatever that idiom is.) Adultery and Islam is very complicated, but don't forget it also applies to men, because like I said, Adultery is one of the worst things a person can do to his/her spouse.
>>61889804
islam isn't that bad, hadiths are fucking up everything. i don't know why hadiths are even allowed.
>implying "god's book" would need expansion packs.
dunno tbqh famalam.
t. deist
>>61893743
no. if you actually read about women in islam the recurring theme is that a woman becomes famous / adored if she shows herself to be capable of greatness. not that a woman is great and should be worshipped by default just for having a cunt. the millions of other women who are not capable of showing these traits of heroism or greatness or virtue or the ones not interested in making a mark fall gently in line of their male care takers.
in the West we have women sucking non alpha males dry for their resources then Chucking them away or fucking Chad next door with literally little to no consequences.
I deplore islam as ideology but anon asked what is one aspect I respect about Islam and that is that it's the ultimate red pill and solution to the female problem.
>>61893760
Who cares if it is just you who accepts criticism. If it is just you, then the whole world would not care about Islam. Otherwise why else would you make a thread on 4chan? The problem has always been the entirety of Islam. The culture is poisonous, it allows people to think it is okay to kill people for no good reason. It is not entirely Islam's fault, but it enables cultures within it to believe that murder can be a good thing. Part of it is because Muhammed himself was a warlord, and he brought his disgusting tribal habits into his book.
>>61893918
>not that a woman is great and should be worshipped by default just for having a cunt
>
in the West we have women sucking non alpha males dry for their resources then Chucking them away or fucking Chad next door with literally little to no consequences.
this doesn't even have anything to do with the perception/treatment of women, it's literally just men putting pussy on a pedestal
>>61893576
We can't, nobody can.
>>61893713
Well, link? Something talks about slaves in the spoils of war surrah, but doesn't it also say be lenient with them? Treat them fairly and so on? Pretty sure the Prophet also freed a few slaves that converted to Islam. And made any slave that converted to Islam free.
>>61893576
Well, in a way isn't Christianity (the religion that influenced Western culture in its current form.) Jewish Imperialism? (Or Roman Imperialism if you believe Christ isn't divine.) Anyway Islam is about worshiping God. There are Arab Pagan influences, most definitely, such as fasting, and the Kaaba. So yes, Islam, can be argued as Arab Imperialism, but in truth I do not personally see it that way. Although I do have a bias, I belong to one of the first tribes that converted to Islam from Arab Paganism. Sadly it is hard to find a person who does not have a certain perspective towards Islam these days.
What do you think of gay people?
>>61889804
None tbqh familia
I gotta admit their long term propagation strategies work wonders though. That can however be both a good or a bad thing depending on which side of the isle you're on.
>pretty much next to no reformation to the point reformists get brutally murdered
>dichotomy of who your enemies are, and how to "deal" with them
>constant calls for praying and religious festival people take extremely serious, unlike Christcucks, which keeps their followers in line
>crude treatment towards infidels
>easy way into the religion; all you gotta do is "call yourself a Muslim"
>no way OUT of the religion, which leads to apostates having to sway which is what ultimately leads to massive deconversion since they pave a "way out" and a "community" they can belong to
>the previous point and the first point (no reformation) in turns guarantees that if Muslim immigrants start "losing" their beliefs, all they need is a "little push" from a more highly religious area in the world and they'll get back to being full blown Muslims again
In a full blown ideological religious war, Islam obliterates every other major religion out there.
>>61894007
Please, save us.
>>61893945
Well, aren't I a step in the right direction then? Anyway, they are part of the culture, not the culture, you have to understand that. Islam is no monolithic, I am a Muslim, I am not Islam. Me and all my brothers are Islam, and some of my brothers have odd views that need to be changed, not to fit your perspective of what a good person is, or to create a Western puppet culture like what happened in Korea, India, China, and Japan. But these extremists actively harm the normal everyday Muslim.
>>61894081
>apostates having to sway which
apostates having NO* sway
>>61889804
I like the part where Muhammad rides a flying donkey
>>61893879
Depends on the Hadith, there are some good hadiths, and some bad ones. I am closer to a Quranist than a Wahabi though.
Arabic music best music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGbThoV1E6g
>>61894176
What do you think about Israel/Palestine?
>>61890461
Who are these semen djinn?
itt faggots who have never met a muslim and believe that they are some sort of animals that won't mind killing you in a second
>>61889804
Islam not really, but I like those pajamas you guys wear.
>>61894004
a. you are under the misconception that what I'm describing are fringe cases when in fact it is the plague of modern society and no one's talking about it let alone remedying it. we can learn a lot from Muslim societies here. they seemed to find a way to keep women full and happy while at the same time eliminating their innate self serving and hypergamous ways.
b. even if we assuming that what's happening to the modern Western couple is just a handful of men putting the pussy on a pedestal and is in no way as bad as I'm making it sound. you cannot help but admire a religion / ideology that does care what others think and aims to remedy women's innate evil tendencies.
>>61894204
Mongol qts I met on vacation
>>61894176
I like Quranists 2bh. I'm no expert on this subject since I don't know Arabic, but hadiths seem really "worldly" and politic in my opinion. And they play big part of today's violent Islam.
>>61894222
>>61894004
doesn't* care
>>61894235
Did u smash or na?
>>61894124
The people who should be more concerned about the extremists should be the Muslims themselves. They are using your name and making you look bad, if you don't do anything, it will simply make you look like you are supporting it. Why do you think so many Muslims go on to twitter to say that they are sorry for what their fellow Muslims did? And that they do not support it? It is to make a statement that they are a "good muslim". In regards to a western puppet culture, they are not puppet cultures, they took aspects of western culture and integrated it with theirs. They did not have to do it, but they are better for it. As for China, they are not friends with anybody. They are probably more of a danger than some silly terrorist group.
>>61893576
islam got turned into arab cultural imperialism by westerners who went TOO LONG DIDNT TRANSLATE
and instead used arabic words
which is retarded
Sufism has some very interesting philosophical aspects.
Sadly the number of Sufis is quite small compared to fanatical wahabis.
>>61894192
>>61894192
>not posting based fairuz
https://youtu.be/buV6797HEpo
>>61894266
Nah, but I smashed one in the capital, after I offered to buy her a drink. Apparently buying a drink for someone is really sweet in Mongol culture
middle east and muslims would be fine if disgusting m*ngols didn't genocide the entire population and burn all books arabs got.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)
>>61889804
Nope, nothing good has come out of that fucked up religion in the last 800 years or so. Your golden age of enlightenment lasted for just a couple generations.
Beyond that, it's all the darkest of ages. Truly, Islam throughout most of its history has been a cancer, and the lack of morality among Muslims (pathological lying, sneakiness, bloodthirstiness, being criminal scumbags all around) only confirms this.
Basically, the rest of the planet hates Islam.
>>61894176
As a Quranist how do you know how to pray? It's not written anywhere in the Quran
How do you know how much zakah to pay?
The Quran says you can beat your wives. Hadith tells you it can only be a light punishment. Without hadith how do you draw the line here?
The biggest arguments a Quranist would give is that as the hadith is the word of men it has most likely been corrupted and that in 15:9 in the Quran it says that Allah promised to perserve the Quran and only the Quran; so that it should be the only thing to follow. If we are expected to believe that ALL the Muslims could have corrupted Islam by introducing the Hadith then to maintain consistency we must also conclude that it was very likely for them to have corrupted the Qur'an as well. The argument for the Quran being preserved is then using circular reasoning, a Quranist is effectively saying "The only evidence that the Qur'an is preserved forever in tact is that the Qur'an says so."
>>61894353
The Mongols didn't arrive until 1258.
Al-Ghazali had already fucked everything up for middle-eastern science and philosophy over a hundred years earlier.
Also, if the Muslims didn't want to get fucked by the Muslims, they shouldn't have waged war on so many other peoples who ended up supporting the Mongols. It's just like the Spanish conquest of the Aztec. If the Aztecs weren't so warmongering towards the other aboriginal tribes, the Spanish would have had a much, much harder time conquering them. Instead, it was a walk in the park for the Spanish, thanks to the support provided to them by the enemies of the Aztecs.
>>61894208
Faggot, my best friend in university was Afghan. Seemed cool at first, but as time went on he became more devout and turned out to be a bona-fide scumbag... I knew this guy for years. He came from a family of latent scumbags. I came to know them well.
>>61894011
>Well, link? Something talks about slaves in the spoils of war surrah, but doesn't it also say be lenient with them?
You can force women who you "win" in battle to put out even if you cant torture them.
> And made any slave that converted to Islam free.
It didnt free the slave however his children would be born free. Not sure how it worked with Women
>>61894305
Anyone can be a Sufi, you can be a Sufi and a Wahabi, it's not a sect, it's something you do. In Arabic it's called Tasawuf. Each Sufi order has its own beliefs, I'd like to learn more about them personally.
>>61894288
I basically said that already, I got your point. I'd rather be the King of my own shitty hill than live on someone elses desu.
>>61894243
The Quran can be political as well, but some hadiths are so unreliable that they need to be culled out of the mainstream Islam.
---------------
Anyway, I am about to go sleep, one thing I have to mention is that Islam is heavily de-centralised. (Sunni Islam, and some sects of Shia Islam but not Jaafari Twelver Islam which some Iranians/Iraqis/Bahrainis/Lebanese tend to practise.) The best solution for Sunni Islam is to bring back a Caliph (A spiritual one, just like the Ayatollahs of MOST Shia Twelver Islam.) and create a spiritual Caliphate. This will keep things centralized and stable in the long run, at least thats my opinion. I just want to let you all know that I have a certain perspective that Islam is a good religion, please go and read the Quran for yourselves and develop your own views. On top of that, I am no Imam, and I am no perfect Muslim (There isn't one.), if you have very detailed questions ask an Imam or someone well versed in Islamic theology.
>>61894443
except they actually found written copies of the Quran dating from 670 AD (the Birmingham copy) All the way to the Ottomans. and the words were absolutely spot on.
>>61894474
Good night habibi
>>61894312
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh1NS5R-shA
Not posting سألونى الناس ;^)
>>61894474
A wise man once said, "I would rather be the king of hell, than the servant of heaven", that man was literally called Satan. If you do not learn from other cultures, then you will always fall short of other nations. Do not be a fool, civilization advances due to a sharing of knowledge, not some silly notion of "muh hill".
>>61894527
They actually found some small insignificant words had changed.
The Quran was only compiled 30 years after the death of the prophet Muhammed
>>61894527
What about the apparent discrepancies of diacritics?
>>61894606
That barely means shit desu. It doesn't change the meaning of the word just the pronounciation
>>61893713
Al-taqiyya allows them to lie about islam.
believe it or not Islam introduced the scientific method into Middle Age Europe and opened the road to Italian Renaissance.
>>61894680
That's shia, which OP explcitly said he's not.
That's not even what taqqiya is either, taqqiya is saying you're non-muslim or sunni when you're amongst other non-muslims/sunnis while in your heart you maintain your stupid shia beliefs so that you don't become persecuted.
Islam is restrictive, not fun. Limits the thought. Atheism is necessary.
Same for Christianity, but it's already been neutered.
HALLEE WAAA SALAM
Why can't people understand freedom of speech?
If I disagree with a politician, a person in history, Jesus or Muhammad that is my right. People are entitled to disagree with me, I may make them angry too.. But they do not have the right to get violent with me.
Why come to a country as a welcome guest then expect the natives to change their culture to suit you?
I would respect the culture and traditions of any other country if I were to emigrate there.
>>61894536
based :∆)
>>61894466
>muh Ghazali
Looks like you bought the black science man meme.
>>61894443
I said I am closer to a Quranist than I am a to a Wahabi.
I pay however much I deem fit, there is no state zakat.
The Quran says that you can "hit" your wife lightly, at least that's what it says in Arabic. This is what it says in my maid's English Quran
"Men are the protecors and maintainers of Women, because ALLAH has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefor the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what ALLAH would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their bed, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance): for ALLAH is Most High, Great (above you all). 4.34
You are correct.
>>61894466
Don't blame Al-Ghazali on everything, that's a highly simplistic argument, he just said philosophers should stop focusing on the metaphysical and focus on the physical, he even got imprisoned for it I think. Wahabism is the way it is because of Wahab.
>>61894473
Don't think so, link please. Sex slavery I think was a motive, and encouraged by Hadith.
And (also forbidden are) all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you,
and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication.
Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.
This is from the Quran, the first one is incredibly vague in English, I'll have to read it in Arabic. The others don't seem that bad.
And yes he did, read about Bilal.
Anyway, I felt bad for not responding to your questions, GN.
>>61889804
I think it's quite okay that women are second class citizens.
>>61894471
What did he do?
>>61894791
Someone address this please.
>>61894466
Are you an idiot?
It is downright absurd to place the blame for the decline of the so called Islamic Golden Age on one book and the thoughts of one philosopher living in Persia in a time when books had to be copied by hand - and fail to mention that the Golden Age of Islamic science ended coincidentally when European Christendom began to make their crusades and the Mongols sacked half of the Middle East.
Most of the Muslim scientists and philosophers were centred around Baghdad and the Mongols infamously sacked the city to the ground in 1258 until the rivers ran with blood. They were focused around the famous Bayt al-Hikmah. Was the Bayt al-Hikmah just shut down by a bunch of guys who had just read al-Ghazali? Or was it not completely destroyed by the Mongols when they sacked Baghdad? Do you think a bunch of scientists and philosophers dropped their pens and went to pray after reading al-Ghazali? Or would you say that the destruction of all the city's libraries and institutions and the mass murder of its inhabitants may have put a slight damper on their scientific work?
The Mongols later even cooperated with the Crusaders in the Franco-Mongol Alliance to pincer the Middle East from both sides. The Abbasid Caliphate in Mesopotamia ended because of the Mongol invasions and the Fatimid Caliphate in Egypt and the Levant ended because of the Crusades. And all this happened right at the same time as Ghazali wrote his book (late 11th century). For reference, the First Crusade was 1096-1099, the 2nd from 1147, the 3rd 1187, and they kept on occurring until the 1300s, the impact of which is immeasurable. Do you really think in the midst of all that murder and slaughter it was al-Ghazali's book that turned people off science?
So again - ignoring the fact that the Middle East was submerged into several centuries of all-out warfare from Tunisia to Iran and say that 'it was religion dat did it' is just childishly naive and completely disingenuous.
I am a Greek
>>61890312
So you like it?
>>61894791
>>61894972
no one will because the muslims you find on 4chan aren't gonna be the ones protesting in western streets for the beheading of anyone who insults islam. youre preaching to the wrong coir because they share the same views as you. in fact they know that if these stupid subhumans were to do the same in their own countries they would be executed or jailed for life. so don't blame them.. blame our own governments for allowing this kind of behavior of continue.
>>61889804
Ahzab 53
>O believers! Do not enter the houses of the Prophet without permission, nor stay waiting for meal time: but if you are invited to a meal, enter, and when you have eaten disperse and do not seek long conversation. Such behavior annoys the Prophet, he feels shy in asking you to leave, but Allah does not feel shy in telling the truth. If you have to ask his wives for anything, speak to them from behind a curtain. This is more chaste for your hearts and for theirs. It is not proper for you to annoy the Rasool of Allah, nor ever to marry his wives after him; this would be a grievous offence in the sight of Allah.
Intresting.
Ahzab 50
>Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom Allah had given you as booty; the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you; and any believing woman who gives herself to the Prophet and whom the Prophet wishes to take in marriage. The privilege is yours alone, being granted to no other believer.
Very interesting.
Also remember, it cannot be changed in any way, it's written so.
Enam 115
>And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
>>61895135
I was expecting a strawman about freedom of speech in Britain.
I'd love to believe I'm preaching to the choir. However, we have sharia areas in England.
This is not British culture or tradition.
>>61895135
What is more, If I were to preach Islam in a predominantly Christian area, the residents would shrug and walk on about their business. In contrast, if I were to thump a bible on a street corner of some predominantly Islamic area we both know that wouldn't last long.
Yet, same country. Same rights, culture and traditions.
>>61895285
No one's going to disagree with you, they are stupid. We all come from countries that historically did not tolerate this shit. Islamic politics was banned/persecuted everywhere in the Arab world except in Saudi Arabia. We tried hard to follow a policy of socialism and arab unity regardless of religion. They tried to follow the Western/Soviet model to advance their countries and remove post colonial injustices like the founding of Israel and psykes-picot.
This failed terribly, as you can see today and the reactionary response is islamic politics, which receives a shit ton of funding from Saudi Arabia which was the antagonistic state to the socialist policies of almost every other Arab state.
All the people protesting in Britain are south asians who are A: Uneducated, B: Pissed off at the state of the muslim world and western interference, C: Are mislead by Islamic politicans/imams who desire to fix their home countries/the world in general by how they see the best way to achieve that, ie. in this case by propogating and forcing Islamic ideals onto the west to gain more converts to create dissent among the population and change the political atmosphere
>>61895448
youre confusing "Christian" with western here.
if you preach islam on a street corner of a Christian community in an Arab or african country, it will definitely be met with the same response.
this is a difference of culture, identity, temperament - not religion. beware of the difference.
>>61895563
But you're supposed to be British. You're supposed to embrace what we've created. You have the freedom to practice your own religion but in return respect our freedoms.
I don't accept you're somehow exempt from it. Why did you come here if you didn't like how it is?
Al Rum (The Romans)
>21. And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.
>22. And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge.
>23. And of His signs is your sleep by night and day and your seeking of His bounty. Indeed in that are signs for a people who listen.
>24. And of His signs is [that] He shows you the lightening [causing] fear and aspiration, and He sends down rain from the sky by which He brings to life the earth after its lifelessness. Indeed in that are signs for a people who use reason.
>25.
>26. And to Him belongs whoever is in the heavens and earth. All are to Him devoutly obedient.
>27.
>28. He presents to you an example from yourselves. Do you have among those whom your right hands possess any partners in what We have provided for you so that you are equal therein [and] would fear them as your fear of one another [within a partnership]? Thus do We detail the verses for a people who use reason.
>29. But those who wrong follow their [own] desires without knowledge. Then who can guide one whom Allah has sent astray? And for them there are no helpers.
>30. So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah . That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.
>31. [Adhere to it], turning in repentance to Him, and fear Him and establish prayer and do not be of those who associate others with Allah
>32. [Or] of those who have divided their religion and become sects, every faction rejoicing in what it has.
>>61889804
Assasins were pretty rad
>>61889804
كس امك انت و دينك القذر
كس ام العرب و الثقاقه العربيه
جود بارتس من الأسلام ايه روح شوفلك جمل تركبه و ولا معزه تنيكك
>>61895563
>if you preach islam on a street corner of a Christian community in an Arab or african country, it will definitely be met with the same response.
That's not Britain. You're free to do that here in peace, or should be. It's the point of the place and why many Muslims came here in the first place.
>this is a difference of culture, identity, temperament - not religion. beware of the difference.
You leave behind aspects of culture that conflict with the values of the country that feeds you currently. By all means retain your identity. Temperament? Leave that where you learned it if it conflicts with the sensibilities of your new home.
just ban all of them
>>61889804
Future imam inshAllah here, so everything.
>>61889804
ok i really fucking hate islam
cya
>>61896499
>30:29. But those who wrong follow their [own] desires without knowledge. Then who can guide one whom Allah has sent astray? And for them there are no helpers.
