https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Otumba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rorke%27s_Drift
>>61854281
forgot pic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Tenochtitlan
>>61854246
Why were natives so shit at fighting? Firearms and armor are a big advantage, but 500 vs 100.000 is something else...
>>61854466
especially when you consider that almost all of the spaniards were exhausted, demoralized, wounded and/or suffering from some sort of tropical illness
plus native weapons and armor were trash-tier
>>61854550
well lad other natives helped them against the aztecs
talk about being dumb (the natives, I mean)
>>61854466
because they're fucking stupid and backwards. even the zulu put up a good fight against the british in a much later era, and even won a battle
>>61854466
>>61854550
plus cortez figured out that if you killed the leaders their units would run away rather than continue fighting. He used what lancers he had left to charge right for the aztec king and kill him, after which the aztecs fucked off.
>>61854246
>>61854722
Well, that isn't COMPLETELY true. The aztecs fucking slaughtered the conquistadors during la noche triste, and they used the streets of tenochitwhateverthefuck pretty effectively to launch ambushes on the conquistadors and their allies during the siege.
>>61854780
Or maybe you are looking for paintings like this
cortez and his conquistadors were so fucking based
>>61854780
Based Roca. God bless his soul.
Can anybody recommend some good books on the spanish conquest of south america? I feel as though its a important event that I somehow know very little about :(
>>61855365
Hernan cortes: conquerer of mexico, history of the conquest of mexico,the discovery and conquest of mexico,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mue6Vc_T9Ds
>>61855450
>Conquest of south america
>Mexico
Everytime
>>61854246
>ITT: we trigger natives
I don't think this kind of battle would trigger them, they know that even with exhausted Spaniards the technology was not there for the natives.
It's like beating up a child.
>>61855793
The conquistadors had no cannon at otumba, and only a handful of arquebuses, crossbows and horses. The conquistadors were mostly fighting with toledo swords, pikes and lances
>>61855793
>>61855926
plus the aztecs had taken a good number of swords off of the 600 or so dead conquistadors after la noche triste
>He isn't native to his country
WHEN will you go BACK home?
>>61856024
our land now achmed. We conquered it fair and square.
Okay, maybe not fair, but we still conquered it.
>>61855926
That weaponry was arguably still the most powerful, highest quality and most advanced in the world at the time.
I remember reading about the conquista, and many claims from the very conquistadores were that the natives didn't know how to fight, and I don't mean a hyperbole, I mean that they would go straight into combat with nothing to stop a sword.
I don't have the link but I read in a page that Hernán Cortés said that during the Otumba battle the natives would only try to get close to him, barely attacking him.
>>61855365
>>61855365
I had a few good books on the subject but I forgot their names and don't feel like digging them up.
Most books mythologize Spaniards as a small White elite tecnologically advanced group who defeated waves of stone age savages but it was basically Spanish bandits being welcomed with open arms by natives and Spaniards subverting them either by abducting their leaders, taking advantage of the chaos caused by diseases they brought, and playing local tribes against each other.
Spaniards are scum. When the Aztec king invited Cortes to his court, the king gave him jewels and gold while Cortes gave him a dirty rag.
>I feel as though its a important event that I somehow know very little about
The most important outcome of European contact with the New World that transformed the world was the Columbian Exchange. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_Exchange
>>61856069
despite the technological advantage, the aztecs had shown previously that sheer weight of numbers could nullify the conquistador's advantages if they could get in close. 600 spaniards died during la noche triest.
>>61854322
>tfw that pic was my desktop background for the last six months and I just watched Zulu last night
>>61856134
this tbqh
>>61856069
Why didn't they attack?
>>61856159
La noche triste was a clear overstatement from the conquistadores who thought military and technological superiority meant they could not lose no matter what.
Just look at the result of Otumba once Cortés realized he should have acted like a dummy.
Look at the Desastre de Annual, Alfonso XIII fucked it all up by pumping the Spanish army to then getting utterly destroyed.
War against Iroquois, Foxes, Natchez...
Man, fuck natives
>>61856339
I don't know.
I'm guessing since they thought the Spaniards were punishment Gods they were afraid.
>>61856134
>abducting their leaders
When the spaniards were trapped in tenochitwhateverthefuck, cortez dragged the captive montezuma to the top of the palace to try and calm his subjects down. They responded by laughing and throwing shit at montezuma. Kidnapping montezuma did jack shit.
>taking advantages of the diseases they brought
nigger you realize that europeans weren't completely immune to smallpox, right? of course they didn't die in as much numbers as the natives, but they still suffered from smallpox. Also, many of the conquistadors were actually sick with tropical diseases europeans hadn't been exposed to yet. cortez himself had a very bad bronchial infection for the majority of hi adventures in the new world. Plus, the diseases they brought with them affected their native allies just as much as their enemies. Also, the siege and destruction of tenochiwhatever happened in between mass outbreaks of the european diseases.
>advanced group who defeated waves of stone age barbarians
except that's actually what happened. The conquistadors had to fight their way out of Tenochitland after they abducted monezuma, and then had to fight for their survival again at otumba. It was the conquistadors who were mostly responsible for marching into tenochitland, killing their way through the aztecs and demoloshing the city block by block. And they WERE an elite, technologically advanced group; they designed and built 9 single-masted, flat-bottomed boats in vera cruz which they then dissassembled, carried with them over the mountains and through the jungles between them and tenochitland, and reassembled them on the lake to gain naval supremacy over the aztecs.
>>61856355
It wasn't an overstatement. The conquistadors had been stuck in tenochitland for a couple of weeks, trying to fight their way out through an enraged aztec populace. La noche triest happened because cortez realised there was no way in hell the conquistadors could fight their way out, so one night they tried to sneak across the causeway out of the city. But then they were slaughtered, and the aztecs killed 600 of them while they struggled to get across the causeway. They lost all of their cannon, as well as most of their arquebuses and crossbows. The aztecs were VERY capable of massacreing the conquistadors if cortes wasn't on top of his shit. During the siege of tenochitland, the aztecs would ambush the conquistadors in the narrow streets. One of these ambushes was so successful that almost the entire allied native contingent decided to pack up and head for home, before cotes rallied them with some speech or whatever.
>>61854550
wait what did we had to do with american natives
>>61856460
the myth that the spaniards were gods had ended after they kidnapped montezuma; the aztecs at this point were well aware that the conquistadors bled like ordinary men.
>>61856621
>It wasn't an overstatement
But you then proceed to explain how the conquistadores overestimated their capabilities. I already know how it went, but it was horribly stupid from Cortés to literally enter the city just like that and kidnap the Emperor.
Yes, it's not like the Spaniards couldn't win anyway, but my point is that these wars were so clearly going to be won by Spain that I don't think any native could be butthurt.
>>61856715
this is more about triggering natives in general than triggering ones from your country
>>61856780
>I don't think any natives would be butthurt
I can try damnit
>>61856876
To do that just post an image of the Spanish Empire in the sourthern cone and wait for the horde of angry chilenos saying it never happened.
>>61857005
why does that piss them off?
>>61857023
Because they claim that the Spaniards never got there even when we had claims on that land.
>>61856056
jose, tyrone, or jinhai? or, god forbid, kang?
>>61856462
You're downplaying the contribution of the native allies and the devastation caused by diseases. The Spanish lowlifes that replaced the native aristocracy perfectly reflects how shitty modern Latin American countries are now.
Read some books instead of getting your history from /pol/ and video games and take off your imaginary morion helmet.
Why are you guys so mean?
>>61857968
because they're stupid. if any of their theories mattered they would be in journals not 4chan
>>61854550
A major part of it was the native's warfare tactics. Their culture believed in combat on an open field, so they engaged the Conquistadors on a flat open field where guns gave Cortez a massive advantage. The natives would have had a much better chance if they laid ambushes in the dense jungles, but it wasn't a tactic they really considered or respected.
So yes, we can look back and make fun of them for that. Right now we look pretty goofy though getting stuck in long wars fighting insurgents. People in the future might look back and laugh at us and say "haha why didn't those dumb western nations employ THIS tactic that we think is so obvious today!"
